Someone wrote a Postscript program around 1987-88 that allowed the interpreter to compile Forth words straight from the command interpreter. It was all of two to three 8.5 x 11 pages of 12 point text, if memory serves.
Since they're a dry pair, they didn't need the load coils- since it's not going into a switch. It's a short-haul modem/300-9600 baud line as far as they're concerned and the impedance isn't going to be off by enough to mess any of that up.
Of course, they're right, the load coils aren't a problem, per se, with the alarm system hardware, but that's beside the point- you asked for a dry pair, meaning nothing on it at all.
You may need to tweak the settings on some machines- the same goes for Windows, it's just that Windows operates differently so that it's differs as to what card/motherboard/memory/etc. combination might need tuning to make it work.
If it's a digital video feed, a la digital cable (DVB format, etc.), they've got DVB cards that will handle everything except the conditional access part; that would be handled by a smartcard reader on board with the decryption keys- just like for DirecTV and Dish Network.
Realize, however, that a Geode isn't a speed demon- never was.
National has yet to sell any set-top solution and most of the set-top vendors have yet to make a dent in things.
Why?
Because the software's nothing like a PC- even though people don't want a PC, they want the Web to look and act like the PC on the box. It's also because they've been using underpowered chips like the Geode to save on costs (The bill of materials on most Geode based boards is ~$100US.)
Uh, they don't have to rev the software as often since it's
1) On a flash
2) There's not a lot there and few, if any services- it's intended to surf the web and provide a front-end for on-demand media services.
3) It's not being used in a multi-user context
Since you've got these three things, it's less likely that little Johnny Haxor is going to root this box by remote, etc.
You don't need to update things if they're not broken for you- most of the updates are for functionality additions/improvements and for bugfixes. A set-top box or other appliance like device wouldn't need the updates as often.
Ok, I'll give you that- but then, infant PC games sales didn't compare to one medium Atari, Nintendo, or Sega game either.
Linux gaming is in it's infancy. As my wife put it, all it'd take is a blockbuster or two at the same time with Windows (or better yet, being Linux first) to change the story.
Uh, the individual in question that you're calling a 15 year old, is none other than John Carmack, head coder at Id software. Unless John's id got hacked, the post is very likely to be from him- it's in his posting style by the way.
He's developed all these cool games, you know like Quake and DooM. He drives this nice Ferrari (I know, I've seen up close and personal at the parking lot of the office building Id's currently at.). He's developed code that is used by the Open Source community (Utah-GLX has code that he developed in it...). He's no script kiddie posting lame crap on here.
While I know it's highly unlikely that you're going to do it (Posting that diatribe as an Anon Coward is really being a coward...) you owe the man an apology.
I think it's only been established that Id didn't do well with the Linux gaming market (Admittedly, that's NOT a good thing) and it's been pointed out repeatedly by myself and others what went down with the sales of Quake III:Arena- and it wasn't because you did a bad game or did bad by us. (On the contrary, you and the great people at Id given us all KINDS of things- including the initial 3D support for the ATI RagePRO, etc.)
When you lag the release of the game by a bit, offer a way for Linux users to buy the Windows version and then "convert" it to the Linux version, and have a situation of mixed quality support of 3D (Some of the blame can be laid at the community's feet for that- some of it can be laid SQUARELY at the feet of the chip vendors...) sales are going to be most certainly in the toilet. One has to wonder how many of the sales for the Windows SKU were really impatient Linux users. You're never going to know- because there's no way for you, or any of the other management there at Id to know for sure because you didn't have a framework for keeping track of the "conversions" in place (Should you have? I'm not so bold as to say you should have- but it would have helped to know for certain that the Linux market was a washout at that time or not. I tried to buy it at the rollout for Linux, to no avail- and in Dallas, one of the larger markets...)
I don't think anybody would blame you for not seeing Q3A on Linux as a success or viable for gaming- I sure wouldn't and I completely understand the position you're taking on this. I just don't see it the way you are because I'm seeing different data points.
Java, by design, has GC- can't get away from it. (Nor, do you want to- that's what makes some of it's selling points possible in the first place!)
Garbage collection would slow/stop a system while it was being performed- it doesn't matter how much horsepower you throw at a problem it still will render it non-deterministic. For some things, that could be tolerated- for a vast majority of things out there it'd be obnoxious to downright deadly to be non-deterministic.
You don't want predictable or unpredictable slowdowns in these sorts of systems:
Fly-by-wire avionics.
Industrial process control.
NC milling.
Automotive ignition control.
Military Command and Control (incl. Signal warfare systems- SigInt, ECM, ECCM, etc.)
Any consumer appliance (How about a microwave that takes a couple of seconds longer to cook something- some of the time...).
Automotive control computers (try a system that doesn't shift the transmission at the right times because it's delayed a second for GC...).
No, not all of this is coded in C/C++. Some of it is in assembly, yes. Some of it's in Jovial, ADA, Eifel, etc.
Pick the tool that makes sense for the job. I don't think a language designed for set-top boxes (That's what Java was...) is suited for much of anything other than things like Word Processors, etc.
Some Java code can run as fast as the native compiled code. Some can't. It's the curse of having that VM- it eats extra cycles, even if it's JIT compiling huge swaths of code (It DOES take time to transcode the bytecodes to native machine code...).
In the case of the UI's, it's partly a problem that Java just isn't QUITE as fast as either C or C++ and that you've got the sandbox in the way- amongst other things.
Some things either can't be or really shouldn't be open sourced- at least not at this point in the development of our "civilization", if you can call it that.
I've never once said that all proprietary software is theft- nor has many others. Get off your own high horse there, sir- you're making yourself the fool just as the "open source advocates" that spout off about what you're accusing all of us of.
MindRover is for the logical thinking type- and is excellent (Don't forget that it NEEDS 3D accel...) It's not your normal strategy/action fare, but it's awesome just the same. Check the minimums and give the demo a whirl- most will be pleasantly surprised.
Alpha Centauri's just good- it's from Sid Meyer and could technically be called Civ3 (Not to knock Civ:CTP, an awesome game in and of itself...)
You have Myth2- it's challenging; you should be playing it.
If you're into 3rd person RPG/Action games Rune will fit the bill, being visually impressive and fairly immersive at the same time. Be warned, it's got steep machine requirements and you're better off on the high-horsepower end of the spectrum for this one.
Team play works well on Tribes 2, but you're going to need the most muscular of machines (you need that even under Windows!) for this one. With an NVidia GeForce 2 card and a PIII-750 or better, you'll be treated to a visual feast and rather good multiplayer game play.
Kohan looks to be yet another one- unique real-time-strategy (Myth2 is a sort of RTS- but it's different than Kohan...) and nice visuals.
You know, you've got some rather old or inaccurate info there- might want to get caught up with the times here...
Myth2 shipped with the only stable 3D accel support at the time- Glide. Accelerated Mesa support at that time was rather hit or miss at best. Right now, if you buy the copy off the shelf and run Loki Update (or manually obtain the update) against it, you'd find that it works with pretty much anything 3D accelerated. I know, I was one of the people they specifically asked to beta test the patch for GLX support.
As for the minimal machine story, letsee...
I wouldn't think that a P133 would handle Myth2 nicely or even passably well- in fact, I remember trying the Windows demo on a 233MMX machine and being rather disappointed with it's overall performance with the software rendering. If you don't have a supported 3D accelerator, the minimum system config is never going to work well for you on any game that works "better" with one- ever.
The delay from the menu selection to game start...
The delay on the click is a delay of load-up due to the numbers of C++ derived.so files. It's a design mis-feature of the dynamic shared object system in use on Linux- the KDE team had to do handstands while juggling clay pots with their feet to hide this issue. It takes forever to do the fixups, etc. with C++ classes, esp. if you've got a lot of pure virtual classes (Something that happens in Windows games a LOT...). Once up, the game runs well on most setups.
Believe what you want- but you're going to look stupid and ignorant going on like you are right now.
"Any fool could buy the Windows SKU and "upgrade" it to the Windows one- a situation that explains the story with Doom III and official Linux versions..."
That should read:
"Any fool could buy the Windows SKU and "upgrade" it to the Linux one- a situation that explains the story with Doom III and official Linux versions..."
I need to not post before having my morning caffene IV...
There was the fun and games revolving around Civilization:Call To Power. Electronics Boutique would only stock 1 copy and when it sold, they'd have to order another at that point- no matter what the demand for it was. CompUSA and Best Buy were supposed to stock the SKU- guess what, it was a no-show.
The same story went for Quake 3- which sold some 2000 units officially (Any fool could buy the Windows SKU and "upgrade" it to the Windows one- a situation that explains the story with Doom III and official Linux versions...).
The resellers aren't going to stock things they don't see a demand for. Since they don't stock much of anything other than Windows versions, they don't see a demand for Linux titles, whether or not there is one, because they don't get people in asking for the stuff.
Since you've got this ugly vicious circle thing going on with titles versus the sales end of the channel, you're not going to get it in any other fasion other than secured downloads and mail/shipping.
While that's a positive boon (i.e. being able to use an Athlon in many of the contexts that you'd be able to use a K6-II/III processor)- it's still a heat monster and I doubt they've made it hostile environment yet (Embedded K6's could handle operation from -40 to +80 degrees Centigrade...).
Until recently, they had a couple of choices and if they wanted PC-like for varying reasons, they had to choose between a 486 or a Laptop/Hostile environment Pentium class CPU. If the app could be handled by a 486, you'd use a 486 because of the lower dissipation and cost.
Many of those "expensive" players can be updated for Vorbis support- in fact, some of the manufacturers of those players have been playing with versions of their product firmware that DOES play Ogg files. And they don't have to pay royalties to the people who own the rights to MP3 with this one. The average person wins because they're mostly ripping their own stuff to be able to play it in jukeboxes, etc.- this is a definite improvement (How about double or more the capacity of that dinky walkman or that MP3 car player- without anything other than re-ripping the content.
But then, if you've got 90 gigs of stuff, you're not the average person- you're a trader. If Oggs take over, then your entire hoarded cache of data becomes worthless and you've got to start over.
Just because you can't see the advantage, doesn't mean there isn't one. Just because you have a problem doesn't mean that everyone else is going to have one as well.
Smaller files because of lower bitrates possible.
Same or better quality for those smaller files.
Many (unfortunately, not all) of the better MP3 players (Such as the EMPEG player) are totally firmware upgradable and they've already implemented versions of Ogg Vorbis players or are in the process of doing so...
Thanks for the tipoff here...
on
Kohan for Linux
·
· Score: 2
Make sure it's announced on LinuxGames and anywhere else pertinent so that everyone knows about it.
Slashdot Mirror
Someone wrote a Postscript program around 1987-88 that allowed the interpreter to compile Forth words straight from the command interpreter. It was all of two to three 8.5 x 11 pages of 12 point text, if memory serves.
Since they're a dry pair, they didn't need the load coils- since it's not going into a switch. It's a short-haul modem/300-9600 baud line as far as they're concerned and the impedance isn't going to be off by enough to mess any of that up.
Of course, they're right, the load coils aren't a problem, per se, with the alarm system hardware, but that's beside the point- you asked for a dry pair, meaning nothing on it at all.
All it takes to make the ISP "aware" of something is an anonymous tip. They're not going to check it out- they're just going to pull the plug.
Sounds like a great way to do a Denial of Service attack- and get the ISP to do all your dirty work.
If you agree to your little "Devil's" advocate position- would you so terribly mind anyone testing that theory? Yes, you do mind? I thought as much...
You may need to tweak the settings on some machines- the same goes for Windows, it's just that Windows operates differently so that it's differs as to what card/motherboard/memory/etc. combination might need tuning to make it work.
Probably competing- it's more akin to Nokia's OST project, though...
If it's a digital video feed, a la digital cable (DVB format, etc.), they've got DVB cards that will handle everything except the conditional access part; that would be handled by a smartcard reader on board with the decryption keys- just like for DirecTV and Dish Network.
There, you can buy the bare machines in bulk...
Realize, however, that a Geode isn't a speed demon- never was.
National has yet to sell any set-top solution and most of the set-top vendors have yet to make a dent in things.
Why?
Because the software's nothing like a PC- even though people don't want a PC, they want the Web to look and act like the PC on the box. It's also because they've been using underpowered chips like the Geode to save on costs (The bill of materials on most Geode based boards is ~$100US.)
That's about to change...
Uh, they don't have to rev the software as often since it's
1) On a flash
2) There's not a lot there and few, if any services- it's intended to surf the web and provide a front-end for on-demand media services.
3) It's not being used in a multi-user context
Since you've got these three things, it's less likely that little Johnny Haxor is going to root this box by remote, etc.
You don't need to update things if they're not broken for you- most of the updates are for functionality additions/improvements and for bugfixes. A set-top box or other appliance like device wouldn't need the updates as often.
I HATE it when I blow a quote...
"No, no, no, not that...anything but that!"
"No, no, no, not that!"
"Yes... THAT !"
Ok, I'll give you that- but then, infant PC games sales didn't compare to one medium Atari, Nintendo, or Sega game either.
Linux gaming is in it's infancy. As my wife put it, all it'd take is a blockbuster or two at the same time with Windows (or better yet, being Linux first) to change the story.
Uh, the individual in question that you're calling a 15 year old, is none other than John Carmack, head coder at Id software. Unless John's id got hacked, the post is very likely to be from him- it's in his posting style by the way.
He's developed all these cool games, you know like Quake and DooM. He drives this nice Ferrari (I know, I've seen up close and personal at the parking lot of the office building Id's currently at.). He's developed code that is used by the Open Source community (Utah-GLX has code that he developed in it...). He's no script kiddie posting lame crap on here.
While I know it's highly unlikely that you're going to do it (Posting that diatribe as an Anon Coward is really being a coward...) you owe the man an apology.
I think it's only been established that Id didn't do well with the Linux gaming market (Admittedly, that's NOT a good thing) and it's been pointed out repeatedly by myself and others what went down with the sales of Quake III:Arena- and it wasn't because you did a bad game or did bad by us. (On the contrary, you and the great people at Id given us all KINDS of things- including the initial 3D support for the ATI RagePRO, etc.)
When you lag the release of the game by a bit, offer a way for Linux users to buy the Windows version and then "convert" it to the Linux version, and have a situation of mixed quality support of 3D (Some of the blame can be laid at the community's feet for that- some of it can be laid SQUARELY at the feet of the chip vendors...) sales are going to be most certainly in the toilet. One has to wonder how many of the sales for the Windows SKU were really impatient Linux users. You're never going to know- because there's no way for you, or any of the other management there at Id to know for sure because you didn't have a framework for keeping track of the "conversions" in place (Should you have? I'm not so bold as to say you should have- but it would have helped to know for certain that the Linux market was a washout at that time or not. I tried to buy it at the rollout for Linux, to no avail- and in Dallas, one of the larger markets...)
I don't think anybody would blame you for not seeing Q3A on Linux as a success or viable for gaming- I sure wouldn't and I completely understand the position you're taking on this. I just don't see it the way you are because I'm seeing different data points.
Java, by design, has GC- can't get away from it. (Nor, do you want to- that's what makes some of it's selling points possible in the first place!)
Garbage collection would slow/stop a system while it was being performed- it doesn't matter how much horsepower you throw at a problem it still will render it non-deterministic. For some things, that could be tolerated- for a vast majority of things out there it'd be obnoxious to downright deadly to be non-deterministic.
You don't want predictable or unpredictable slowdowns in these sorts of systems:
Fly-by-wire avionics.
Industrial process control.
NC milling.
Automotive ignition control.
Military Command and Control (incl. Signal warfare systems- SigInt, ECM, ECCM, etc.)
Any consumer appliance (How about a microwave that takes a couple of seconds longer to cook something- some of the time...).
Automotive control computers (try a system that doesn't shift the transmission at the right times because it's delayed a second for GC...).
No, not all of this is coded in C/C++. Some of it is in assembly, yes. Some of it's in Jovial, ADA, Eifel, etc.
Pick the tool that makes sense for the job. I don't think a language designed for set-top boxes (That's what Java was...) is suited for much of anything other than things like Word Processors, etc.
Some Java code can run as fast as the native compiled code. Some can't. It's the curse of having that VM- it eats extra cycles, even if it's JIT compiling huge swaths of code (It DOES take time to transcode the bytecodes to native machine code...).
In the case of the UI's, it's partly a problem that Java just isn't QUITE as fast as either C or C++ and that you've got the sandbox in the way- amongst other things.
Ideally, all software should be open, yes.
The world is not an ideal place.
Some things either can't be or really shouldn't be open sourced- at least not at this point in the development of our "civilization", if you can call it that.
I've never once said that all proprietary software is theft- nor has many others. Get off your own high horse there, sir- you're making yourself the fool just as the "open source advocates" that spout off about what you're accusing all of us of.
MindRover is for the logical thinking type- and is excellent (Don't forget that it NEEDS 3D accel...) It's not your normal strategy/action fare, but it's awesome just the same. Check the minimums and give the demo a whirl- most will be pleasantly surprised.
Alpha Centauri's just good- it's from Sid Meyer and could technically be called Civ3 (Not to knock Civ:CTP, an awesome game in and of itself...)
You have Myth2- it's challenging; you should be playing it.
If you're into 3rd person RPG/Action games Rune will fit the bill, being visually impressive and fairly immersive at the same time. Be warned, it's got steep machine requirements and you're better off on the high-horsepower end of the spectrum for this one.
Team play works well on Tribes 2, but you're going to need the most muscular of machines (you need that even under Windows!) for this one. With an NVidia GeForce 2 card and a PIII-750 or better, you'll be treated to a visual feast and rather good multiplayer game play.
Kohan looks to be yet another one- unique real-time-strategy (Myth2 is a sort of RTS- but it's different than Kohan...) and nice visuals.
You know, you've got some rather old or inaccurate info there- might want to get caught up with the times here...
.so files. It's a design mis-feature of the dynamic shared object system in use on Linux- the KDE team had to do handstands while juggling clay pots with their feet to hide this issue. It takes forever to do the fixups, etc. with C++ classes, esp. if you've got a lot of pure virtual classes (Something that happens in Windows games a LOT...). Once up, the game runs well on most setups.
Myth2 shipped with the only stable 3D accel support at the time- Glide. Accelerated Mesa support at that time was rather hit or miss at best. Right now, if you buy the copy off the shelf and run Loki Update (or manually obtain the update) against it, you'd find that it works with pretty much anything 3D accelerated. I know, I was one of the people they specifically asked to beta test the patch for GLX support.
As for the minimal machine story, letsee...
I wouldn't think that a P133 would handle Myth2 nicely or even passably well- in fact, I remember trying the Windows demo on a 233MMX machine and being rather disappointed with it's overall performance with the software rendering. If you don't have a supported 3D accelerator, the minimum system config is never going to work well for you on any game that works "better" with one- ever.
The delay from the menu selection to game start...
The delay on the click is a delay of load-up due to the numbers of C++ derived
Believe what you want- but you're going to look stupid and ignorant going on like you are right now.
"Any fool could buy the Windows SKU and "upgrade" it to the Windows one- a situation that explains the story with Doom III and official Linux versions..."
That should read:
"Any fool could buy the Windows SKU and "upgrade" it to the Linux one- a situation that explains the story with Doom III and official Linux versions..."
I need to not post before having my morning caffene IV...
There was the fun and games revolving around Civilization:Call To Power. Electronics Boutique would only stock 1 copy and when it sold, they'd have to order another at that point- no matter what the demand for it was. CompUSA and Best Buy were supposed to stock the SKU- guess what, it was a no-show.
The same story went for Quake 3- which sold some 2000 units officially (Any fool could buy the Windows SKU and "upgrade" it to the Windows one- a situation that explains the story with Doom III and official Linux versions...).
The resellers aren't going to stock things they don't see a demand for. Since they don't stock much of anything other than Windows versions, they don't see a demand for Linux titles, whether or not there is one, because they don't get people in asking for the stuff.
Since you've got this ugly vicious circle thing going on with titles versus the sales end of the channel, you're not going to get it in any other fasion other than secured downloads and mail/shipping.
While that's a positive boon (i.e. being able to use an Athlon in many of the contexts that you'd be able to use a K6-II/III processor)- it's still a heat monster and I doubt they've made it hostile environment yet (Embedded K6's could handle operation from -40 to +80 degrees Centigrade...).
Until recently, they had a couple of choices and if they wanted PC-like for varying reasons, they had to choose between a 486 or a Laptop/Hostile environment Pentium class CPU. If the app could be handled by a 486, you'd use a 486 because of the lower dissipation and cost.
Ever heard of firmware updates?
Many of those "expensive" players can be updated for Vorbis support- in fact, some of the manufacturers of those players have been playing with versions of their product firmware that DOES play Ogg files. And they don't have to pay royalties to the people who own the rights to MP3 with this one. The average person wins because they're mostly ripping their own stuff to be able to play it in jukeboxes, etc.- this is a definite improvement (How about double or more the capacity of that dinky walkman or that MP3 car player- without anything other than re-ripping the content.
But then, if you've got 90 gigs of stuff, you're not the average person- you're a trader. If Oggs take over, then your entire hoarded cache of data becomes worthless and you've got to start over.
Just because you can't see the advantage, doesn't mean there isn't one. Just because you have a problem doesn't mean that everyone else is going to have one as well.
Smaller files because of lower bitrates possible.
Same or better quality for those smaller files.
Many (unfortunately, not all) of the better MP3 players (Such as the EMPEG player) are totally firmware upgradable and they've already implemented versions of Ogg Vorbis players or are in the process of doing so...
Make sure it's announced on LinuxGames and anywhere else pertinent so that everyone knows about it.