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Japan to Start Fingerprinting Foreign Travelers
rabiddeity writes "If you're planning to visit Japan sometime in the near future, you should be aware of the welcome you'll get. Last year, Japan's parliament passed a measure requiring foreigners to submit their fingerprints when entering the country. The measures, which apply to all foreigners over 16 regardless of visa status, take effect tomorrow. The worst part: the fingerprints are stored in a national database for an "unspecified time", and will be made available to both domestic police and foreign governments."
Since I won't want to go to Japan anytime soon, any other suggestions for Asian or Pacific countries to visit?
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
I already live in Japan... I wonder if I will have to do this if I go on vacation and am coming back home?
What's the big deal? This makes a lot of sense. It could help in catching criminals... and that's probably what it's going to be used for.
Am I supposed to just accept that this violation-by-proxy is legal?
Probably yes, see http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/index.html under "New entry Procedures will start"
Did you know that you leave fingerprints on everything you touch? Anyone can track you anywhere you go!!! All they have to do is "lift" the prints off the surface. It's a privacy nightmare.
Frankly this sounds like a good idea to me. I really don't have a problem with it. Someone please explain why I should. How would this negatively affect me? Even if I were a criminal, I would just wear latex gloves while I was committing crimes.
Diplomacy is the art of saying, 'Nice doggie!' till you can find a rock.-- Wynn Catlin
Could it be?
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/07/0127227
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/08/125235
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/26/1944228
Yes, apparently it could. Japan isn't the first by a long shot.
Mod parent up, you privacy idiots. Show at least some fairness and stop modding up just privacy psychos and nobody else.
Only the guilty need worry.
And while I am at it, can I interest you in some Florida Condominiums?
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
It probably will never negatively effect you. However, some people object to being treated like a criminal for no apparent reason.
Why are you acting all high-and-mighty? When I came to the US, I was fingerprinted.
Was it pleasant? No. Was it a big deal? Not really. I figure if the US wants to throw me in Guantanamo Bay, them having my fingerprints is the least of my problems.
So if the US does it, why not Japan?
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
*grumble* I leave for japan in a month for 2 weeks, I really don't like this, but I love visiting Japan, and guess not visiting would be worse to me. :-(
:-(.
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices when you enjoy something or someplace.
When the US started to fingerprint foreign travellers, a whole bunch of countries threatened to do that to visting US citizens. It is nice to see Japan follow through with their threat, albeit a few years later (although they are not just focussing on US citizens). I can see a bunch of Americans getting really upset about this and declaring they'll never travel to Japan, but what the Japanese Government are doing is really no different than what the US Government is doing to everyone else.
Personally I don't like being treated as a criminal. However, as much as I could complain about it, it won't be stopping me from travelling.
"We require these fingerprints for your health insurance," he said. "But of course, since our atmospheric pollutants have raised the cancer rate to 50%, you'll probably want that cancer insurance, unless you want to go bankrupt as you die of voracious tumors which suspiciously resemble health care executives." His smile flashed the wisdom of Satan and the plaintive honesty of Jesus Christ, and I could not resist.
Anti-Globalism
I have permanent resident status in Japan. This is the equivalent of a landed immigrant in most countries, however it is more permanent as you essentially have it for the rest of your life unless you become a Japanese citizen or leave Japan without a re-entry permit. This status takes a very long time to get (5-10 years) and requires you to submit tons of personal information and have Japanese guarantors. One of the benefits has been that you can line up at the Japanese citizens counters at airport immigration and be through very quickly. (My record: plane to train in under 5 minutes)
Despite this, from this Tuesday I will be required to line up with the regular foreign tourists and have my picture and fingerprints taken every time I enter Japan and every time I *leave* Japan.
Also, I still have to make sure I have a re-entry permit which I have to get every 3 years or I will lose my status completely.
All of this because I *might* be a terrorist or criminal.
The one thing I wonder is, if I pass away during a trip abroad are they going to take my picture and fingerprints when they bring my body back to the nice gravesite in rural Gumma prefecture where I'm going to be buried when I die?
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Very soon, they will realize that taking thumb prints has no effect at deterring a man ready to "meet his God" or "getting rewarded with 70 virgins", just like the we did.
Trouble is, it will become quite apparent very late in time. Thanks to the US.
America has been doing this to citizens of every single country except Canada for many years now. Even up here in Canada we figure it's only a matter of time.
Each new power given to the government must be balanced by a power of the citizenry. Else, this is just another step on the path to a facist state.
These new powers of surveillance and databases that we're giving our governments are vast. Never before in history has a country been able to monitor the movements and transactions of everyone, with so much precision. I know of no balancing power that has been given to the citizens in countries such as the US, UK, and now Japan, to check that the government is not abusing these powers. And the citizenry certainly does not have the equivalent power of knowing the private travel habits of their officials.
The fact of the matter is that these kinds of powers are far more useful for tracking law-abiding citizens than catching criminals. You don't catch criminals by identifying all the non-criminals. The database of non-criminals is totally useless, since any truly nefarious characters will avoid it, and not end up in your database at all. These kinds of things are often justified on the basis of preventing petty crime. But, this is far too large a power to give the government to reduce petty crime. Petty crime will never hit zero.
Instead, these new kinds of powers have far more use in tracking political enemies and corporate espionage. For instance just before the next G8 summit you can bet there will be new names on the no-fly lists. Before a major political debate, the challenging candidate will be denied travel. Governments will be able to determine when competing corporations are traveling for a meeting, and deny entry to those people. For people who are not political dissidents or corporate higher-ups, the only possible consequence besides deterioration of our democratic systems is that we will end up being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and be accused of committing a crime. The dragnet will have found us. And the evidence will be ironclad. Because, fingerprints are never wrong, are they?
I need a succinct way to explain these issues. The fact of the matter these arguments always come down to the brain-dead simple arguments that are difficult to refute: a) This will help catch <latest bogeyman>; and b) I'm not a <latest bogeyman> so why should I care? I need a one-sentence refutation to these arguments to give the people that don't think very hard about it. Obviously those interested in preserving freedom such as myself are not winning this argument. Anyone want to suggest one in the comments?
--Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
...for all of us gaijins going home for the holidays! Needless to say, I'm not pleased.
Bonus points for this idiot minister using a bullshit "a friend of a friend is in Al Quaeda, therefore all foreigners are dangerous" claim to justify this crap.
having your fingerprints taken is being treated like a criminal? Sounds like your lily white fat ass has never spent a day in jail.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
+5 INFORMATIVE
Fingerprints? Rubbish.
I want 3 samples of DNA [ blood, saliva, hair ] and retina images of both your eyes.
We have to keep people safe *cough* yeah right *cough*
AFTER those "safe" tests, we get your full palm prints, both hands.
Then we collect a full infrared body heat signature [ front, back, both sides, top, bottom ].
Then we collect your voice signature [ talk into this microphone please ].
Then we collect a 3D image of your body with this laser scanner [ take off ALL your clothes ].
Then we keep all this information forever and ever.
If you pass all these tests, you will be allowed in.
We will keep you safe.
On the other hand :
For sale : information you can't get anywhere else. 100 million per person. Cash only.
Future tests in the works :
quantum dna scanner, Neutron body scanner, Energy Karma signature scanner, etc.
Frankly this sounds like a good idea to me. I really don't have a problem with it. Someone please explain why I should.
Because being able to freely move about with out molestation is an essential freedom, which has been violated throughout the ages. It's time to say, No more! That's why. If you wish to give up your freedom, that's okay. But don't take away mine, please.
What?
No. This is not enough. I think they should do more.
They should:
In addition to all of this, all travelers should have to submit notarized copies of their birth certificate as well as copies of every page of their passport in order for officials to know everywhere they have traveled. Also, they would have to submit a special letter from the government of their country of citizenship that states that the person does not have any criminal records in that country. Also, they would be subject to an interview using a lie detector machine. All of this information would be kept indefinitely and shared with foreign governments. Also it would be sold for pennies to telemarketing companies and spammers so that they could target you for the products that you are most likely to buy.
No, they aren't going to do all that, but that's what I think they should do.
Ohh, the melodrama, playing the race card too.
There are varying degrees of being treated like a criminal.
The new system is being introduced as Japan campaigns to attract more tourists.
Oh yeah, that'll work. "Over to your right, you can see and experience our meddlesome bureaucracy at work. Just follow the rubber yellow line to be stamped and printed."
What?
... will look like 12-year-old Japanese schoolgirls since the authorities will be too busy checking out their panties to suspect them.
How would this negatively affect me?
The extra minute or so per passenger adds up, when you're waiting in line.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
True. And you should open your doors to police searches without notification or justification whenever they want, because if you have nothing to hide, why do you care? The only people who should exercise their liberties are those who have things to hide. That way we can outlaw all liberties as merely tools of criminals. Good thinking, sport.
You do not want to get cavity searched in Japan!!!!
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/culture/waiwai/news/20071115p2g00m0dm016000c.html
Japan seems to have an obsession with foreigners as criminals. This despite (what I've heard) a rather obvious all-Japanese organized criminal underworld. Apparently, it's still possible in Japan to see business establishments that blatantly refuse to cater to foreigners. Sod 'em. I don't want to go badly enough that I'd subject myself to that mess.
I don't know where you are from, but around here you don't get printed unless you're being charged with a crime. I'd say that that qualifies. I also didn't know being in jail was something to be proud of.
It will be interesting to see what impact this new system has on business and tourist travel. I will be all smiles if it has a drastic impact and Japan relents.
If it's hot asian women you are after, Singapore (though I personally think Japanese chicks are worth the fingerprinting bs)
If you want a geeky holiday, South Korea, best video game tournaments in the world.
Malaysa is not bad a place either
Make SELinux enforcing again!
So if I'm heading to Japan for a two-week educational visit at the start of 2009, What does this mean for me? (Apart from the obvious, my fingerprint being taken)
"Women are just like ninjas; They lie even when it is more convenient to tell the truth." ~ Unknown
What's the simplest, safest, and least painful way to get rid of fingerprints permanently?
Would be the greatest FU to these countries.
So um... What's the big deal? It's like having your passport checked at the airport... What, you don't think they keep a record of you? Nothing new, Some gas stations in the U.S. scan your index finger to keep a tab instead of using cash or credit. Is it a bigger issue of 666, the fear of some one else being in more control of your life than you? I am more ticked about the Social Secuirty tax in the U.S. more than this finger printing in Japan. Don't worry about it, every country will have something like this sooner or later. Not worth loosing sleep over it! Enjoy Japan!!! It is a beautiful place, honestly I haven't been there... but I've seen pictures :-)
Knowing that they want my finger print wouldn't,shouldn't, and doesn't disscourage me from wanting to go there! It might even give some people a sence of security. Not me, but other people might...
I've never been in jail (except for a tour) yet have had my fingerprints taken 5 times. First was at 16 when I got a job with a city. Second through fifth were for volunteering in a school, student teaching, and two teaching jobs. Being a huge supporter of privacy, I don't give a hoot. As another poster said, they can lift your prints from something you just touched. Let the Japanese government have its mostly useless and highly masturbatorial wad of security theater. They video tape you from a vast number of security cameras, which I find to be far more invasive. Your credit card number comes up wherever you use the ATM or purchase something. Hotels must see your passport to let you stay.
After a long flight trip the last thing I want is to be fingerprinted. This is why I refuse to travel to America anymore. I am more willing to fly to Japan though as the flight isn't as long and so I'm not as tired.
"Frankly this sounds like a good idea to me. I really don't have a problem with it. Someone please explain why I should. How would this negatively affect me?"
In the past, it wasn't uncommon to see 'foreign' travellers sitting on the floor in Narita, waiting to be processed into the country. They might be from Korea or Vietnam or even China - but the look on their faces as they sat on the linoleum (no chairs, sorry) inside a temp. holding area, marked by orange traffic cones, said that you didn't want to be one of them. The Japanese are pretty good at making outsiders feel uncomfortable when they want to.
If they were lucky, it only took a day or two to complete the process before they were released...some allowed to enter and some put on the next aircraft out.
Now, EVERY non-Japanese will be fingerprinted, photographed, turned into a number and forced to wait a minimum of 30 minutes more than whatever the process took before. Each and every time you come into Japan. Even if you hold a residency permit. I suspect the process will take a bit longer each time you come through.
That the last real terrorist threat to Japan's mainland was homegrown.
People that wear it like a badge of honour do so as it gives them an excuse to bitch an moan about "being held back by the man" and "there picking on me because im black" like their the big victim because they did something wrong
Those that claim "racism" more often than not are usually the racist ones themselves.
Anyways, fingerprinting is something you do when you get a criminal record, and basically here you DO have a criminal record for nothing more than visiting a certain country. How the fuck is that fair? Enlighten me somebody?
>I don't know where you are from, but around here you don't get printed unless you're being charged with a crime.
...on your way to jail!
Here in the US DWB is enough of a crime to justify getting printed
First off, I'd encourage everyone who opposes this policy to register their views with this online petition.
I would also encourage you to write a letter to the Ministry of Justice at:
Also, send a copy to the Japanese National Tourist Organization, making clear the impact on tourism, at their Japanese headquarters and your regional office listed at the URL below:
Not only is this policy an invasion of privacy, but also discriminatory in its application. Of the major terrorist incidents in Japan, none has been committed by a foreigner -- 1995 Tokyo Sarin Gas attacks, bombing of government office buildings in Hokkaido in the 70s, assassination of the Mayor of Nagasaki... all perpetrated by Japanese nationals.
Further, fingerprinting is dubious at best in preventing terrorist attacks. A terrorist organization capable of a serious attack on Japan is capable of entering the country without passing through immigration. From the point of view of politics, however, fingerprinting foreigners is an easy way to make it appear as though you're getting tough on terrorism and foreign crime.
Lastly, The Japanese government has produced an introductory video on the new scheme that you really have to see to believe. As the guy in the video says "I'll pass it on to all my friends". I get the feeling this won't have the effect the Japanese government intends it to have.
They've also put out a PDF version of the poster for this program.
I took my 6 yo to Disney Florida and we both had to give a finger print to get in.
This was started by Americans fingerprinting foreigners. I was on a plane FROM Japan when the fingerprinting rules kicked in in the US a few years back. I watched how the big bad customs agents yelled and screamed at the little japanese grandmothers to wipe their foreheads to get enough grease for a good fingerprinting. When the agents realized that the grandmothers didn't speak english they simply yelled louder and louder, scaring the grandmothers more and more.
What goes around comes around.
The point is that they get you used to giving up liberties a bit at a time.
They'll start out small with fingerprints, next thing you know it'll be holographic head scans and "safety cameras" on every street corner.
No sig today...
As for the issue of "equally", the new Japanese law mandating the fingerprinting of foreigners is discriminatory and is unacceptable. In particular, the law exempts Korean citizens who reside permanently in Japan but who refuse Japanese citizenship. Roughly 45% of these "refuseniks" pledge their allegiance to North Korea. They send their children to special schools which teach their students to sing the praises of North Korea.
These Korean refuseniks deliberately refuse Japanese citizenship because they want to maintain their "Korean-ness". They believe that blood determines both culture and nation of loyalty. They are loyal to either North Korea or South Korea.
The Korean refuseniks have harbored this intense racist bigotry for decades. Since the early 1990s, this bigotry began to fade slightly, and the number of Koreans applying for Japanese citizenship has increased from 5000 annually to 10,000 annually.
In today's Japan, there is no discrimination against Japanese citizens of Korean ancestry. There is, however, justifiable discrimination against Korean citizens or any other person who lacks Japanese citizenship: for example, a Brazilian citizen of Japanese ancestry does not have the same privileges that a Japanese citizen enjoys.
The Korean refuseniks are exempted from the fingerprinting requirement because, in the 1980s, the Korean government demanded that the Japanese government end the fingerprinting of Korean citizens who refuse Japanese citizenship. The Korean government insisted that Tokyo fulfill this demand before the Korean government was willing to improve relations with Japan. As a result of this interference by the Korean government in Japanese domestic politics, Tokyo ended the fingerprinting of Korean refuseniks. The Korean refuseniks are also exempted from the fingerprinting in the new Japanese law just passed by the Japanese parliament.
There is a huge difference between Korean refuseniks and Americans of African ancestry. Some Korean refuseniks are descended from people who were forcibly brought to Japan during World War II. However, many Korean refuseniks are descended from people who voluntarily came to Japan during and after World War II. By contrast, nearly all Americans of African ancestry are descended from people who were forcibly brought to the United States. Yet, while the Korean refuseniks voluntarily refuse Japanese citizenship (that they could easily get), all Americans of African ancestry gladly want to be American citizens.
The attitude of the Koreans is utterly racist and bigotted. By contrast, most Taiwanese citizens who chose to reside permanently in Japan have conscientiously wanted (and obtained) Japanese citizenship.
In summary, the new Japanese law mandating the fingerprinting of foreigners is discriminatory and is unacceptable because the law exempts Korean refuseniks. Tokyo should ignore the Korean government and should resume fingerprinting Korean refuseniks -- especially Korean refuseniks who pledge their allegiance to North Korea. (The Korean government has been a far bigger pain to Japan than the Mexican government has been to the USA.)
Previously, you could go through at the Japanese citizen's counter on any status of residence provided your residence was in Japan and you had your foreigner registration card with you (i.e. not your first trip through, but presumably all your subsequent trips through unless your residency lapsed). I've done it on, let's see, International Relations (kokusai gyoumu, what the heck was that called again?), Engineer, and Cultural Activities visas before.
Ahh well. At worst, this is a minor nuisance which we'll be incurring a few times a year. The Japanese government already has given the both of us the nth degree, what is fingerprints added to that? And it will probably be as perfunctory as the "inspection" I am given at customs every time. (Full transcript of my most recent inspection: "Where is your company?" "Nagoya" "Have a nice day.")
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Although I hate to fingerprinted and the whole I idea is just dumbfuck stupid (except that they want to weed out the "people" who come in/out with a tourist visa) the machine they use, and they way they do it, seems quite efficient.
... fucking pisses me off.
Plus there will be extra lines for the visa + re-entry permit holders.
Still,
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
Travellers to the US have been fingerprinted for some time - not to mention all the other indignities they endure. Reciprocity is a bitch, isn't it.
you had me at #!
The more of you Slashdot types it keeps out the better. All the more Japanese totty for me, not that I can imagine the average reader picking up any J girls, even though your pasty-white skin from too long in your Mom's basement may be highly prized here.
I have been photographed and fingerprinted for years when arriving in the U.S. or in transit over it. So why the big deal if other countries do the same? Or are the Americans afraid of this?
Why is this a bad thing? What horrible, evil thing will the government be able to do if they have my fingerprints in a national database?
They permit the death penalty. It's not like I was planning to go there while that situation persisted anyhow.
Seriously, what the hell do you expect of a country whose legislation permits the same country to selectively violate such a person's right to life towards whom they have state-level responsibility? Can anything that is not enslavement be expected of such a nation? "As for Nihon, we will be the ideal nation-state whenever it best suits us. When it does not, you get boned. Fundamentally."
Fuck 'em. And fuck the US, China, Russia, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, basically every last damn African country and every other undercivilized shithole in the world.
In any case it is quite convenient, even if it isn't especially secure. That's what counts right?
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I'd love to set up a stand selling gloves just past one of these checkpoints.
As some AC posted, I went with my family to Disney World last week, and they had finger print scanners. Needless to say I refused, and the lady said "what are you afraid of, unless you have something to hide". I reamed her a bit for insinuating that I might have something to hide.
Then she started with the bogus line "It is not a fingerprint, it is a biometric. All it does is measure the width and length of your finger".
When I still refused, and asked for my parking and admission back, at that point they let my family in quite quickly. Lesson? keep fighting!
THE BIG QUESTION... Where does disney store these, how long, and given the cozy relationship between Disney and the US government - how many of us believe they will not end up in the hands of the government?
It's only a matter of time before biometrics become mandatory most everywhere - and I'm not talking just international travel, but domestic travel as well.
... but keep in mind that young people growing up today are increasingly accustom to being watched, and many actually feel more secure being constantly monitored - they far outnumber the folks who avoid travel due to fingerprinting, etc ...
On an aside, several U.S. states, including California have required fingerprint(s) for one to merely get a drivers license for decades regardless of where one plans to travel...
Speaking of travel - even within the U.S., there are internal checkpoints where people (drivers, bikers, etc) are stopped and asked for ID and/or questioned about their activities - some checkpoints are for catching illegal aliens while others are for checking for contraband - typically invasive plants, foods, insects, etc that themselves are legal, but not for transport in/out of some areas, and then there are the DUI checkpoints and Safety checkpoints.
Point is that people in the U.S. have long tolerated / accepted many other invasive actions without any uprising. I expect that fingerprinting won't be any different in the longrun...
Many here speak of not traveling to such and such place due to fingerprinting
And it will get worse too - requiring DNA samples, IRIS scans, RFID tagging (already happening via passports), etc...
So again, it's just a matter of time before most everyone who wishes to travel anywhere is tagged, photographed, and profiled; barring a major revolution, it's inevitable.
Ron
This does not make it more acceptable. Next time they want a scan of some other private parts of your body.
Databases everywhere. And who takes care of the security implied in holding such sensitive data? I'm waiting patiently until some cracker gets into the US flight DB and then all the credit card data is stolen. I also don't like criminals to have access to my fingerprint data that is used for conviction somewhere.
Is this difficult to understand that this is wrong?
The next step is to slowly drip.. drip.. drip.. information into public consciousness that you're watched all the time, and then the conversion is complete..
I don't know if there are any other geeky martial artists here, but I travel to Japan every once in a while for things like exams and budo events. That's not going to happen anymore until this political bullshit is cleared up. I don't mind *them* taking my fingerprints. But I very much object to sharing this with unspecified countries! Fuck you Japan.
Next time a Japanese tourist whom I suspect is a politician asks me to take a picture of him in front of some building, there will be repercussions! That picture will be BLURRY!
It so happens that Tokyo and Chicago are vying to be considered for the Summer Olympics in 2016. I would like to put together a campaign (from a variety of people, civil liberty/privacy groups, etc) to ask that the International Olympic Committee reject any host city application whose nation requires photographing/fingerprinting as a condition of entry. Such a condition violates the human dignity principle of the IOC charter, as well as potentially surpressing visitors to that host nation (since many believe that the dropoff in visitors to the US is related to US-VISIT.
1. According to a report by "The Economist", the Japanese government, by 2005, had apologized 17 times for the role of the Japanese in World War II. The Japanese government even gave a written apology to the Korean government.
2. According to a report by "The Washington Post", Tokyo paid $500 million of war reparations to Seoul in 1965.
3. According to a CNN report, a "Time" magazine report, and several other reports, Nazi symbols are popular in Korea. "A small photo of Adolf Hitler adorns the entrance to the Fifth Reich, an upscale watering hole in Seoul's Shinchon university district. A larger picture of the Führer hangs across from the bar, where waiters and waitresses with swastika arm badges mix drinks that have names like 'Adolf Hitler' and 'Dead'."
4. Koreans have viciously treated non-Koreans in South Korea. The Chinese immigrant community has succeeded in nearly every Asian country (including Japan). The exception is South Korea. The Chinese population in Korea declined from 50,000 to 10,000. "Many Chinese claim they were forced out by the Seoul authorities."
5. A reporter at "The Economist" wrote, "Koreans have always prided themselves on ethnic homogeneity, and feared and distrusted outsiders."
6. The U.S. State department has warned, "Citizenship [in Korea] is based on blood, not location of birth, and Koreans must show as proof their family genealogy. Thus, ethnic Chinese born and resident in Korea cannot obtain citizenship or become public servants."
7. "Purity" of blood is extremely important in Korean culture. "Traditional reverence for familial bloodlines [in Korea] and the social stigmas attached to adoptees as well as children who are disabled, mixed race or born out of wedlock limit local enthusiasm for the [adoption] program. Thus, international adoption continues to outpace domestic." "Because of societal values emphasizing the importance of bloodline, children were adopted domestically only by extended family or blood relatives."
Although a tiny percentage of Japanese citizens supports a revisionist history (as evidenced by the shocking memorial next to Yasukuni Shrine), the overwhelming majority of Japanese is aware of the correct history of World War II: specifically, the Japanese military initiated a war of aggression.
However, this unfortunate history is no justification, whatsoever, for the the racist and bigotted attitudes of the Koreans. Korean citizens who reside in Japan but who refuse Japanese citizenship should be treated as foreigners. These Korean "refuseniks" are loyal to either South Korea or North Korea. The Japanese government should fingerprint all Korean "refuseniks".
I have never been fingerprinted, and I have had a security clearance several times (Dutch, French and US), because I've worked as a civilian at space centers (Marshall and Kennedy), and military aviation (in France). They just did a background check and verified my identity with my passport. The U.S. clearance was in the early nineties, maybe its different now.
So the fact that the U.S. is now not so slowly turning into a surveillance state does not imply that the rest of the world is going to do the same.
Bart
There are special bars för nihonjin... Racial segregation is still an everyday reality in Japan, and most people seem to think it's perfectly normal. Imagine if governments enforced special race laws in Europa and the United States. We'd have riots and demonstrations, but in Japan, all is quit and sedated.
Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
Just found the Re-Entry Japan Blogspot page on which Gaijin provocateur Arudo Debito has posted that at Narita there will be at least one booth set aside for re-entry permit holders.
I also see some notes that initially, mixed nationality families (like mine) with at least one Japanese parent and children under 16 will be allowed to use the Japanese counters. (possibly to avoid the embarrassment of having the kids ask why Daddy has to be fingerprinted by a criminal)
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
That cannot be done, canada at japans request cannot say, "ok we delete you from canada" it cannot be done.
Japan might not recognize you canadian passport, but canada still will.
I may be wrong, but when I checked Italy, they said that they will never remove you from being an italian unless you committed war crimes.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Really, think about it.
a) Want my fingerprints? Sure, have at them. I leave them on everything I touch, after all.
b) Fingerprints could be used to identify me, if there were an American database of fingerprints I was in. I suppose the shadowy database could connect me to all sorts of private info that I wouldn't want the Japanese government having access to... of course, why would you query the shadowy American database by fingerprint when you could do it by a unique identifying number, name, birthdate, and place of birth. Good thing that the Japanese government doesn't ask me for those at immigration -- they just get to see my passport. Oh waaaaait.
Seriously, if Japan and America decide to conspire to screw me, I'm screwed. That is true with or without fingerprints. Thus, all this matters to me is that I lose another 5 minutes on top of a 16 hour commute.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
-- Benjamin Franklin
US citizen: "How dare they! I, for one, will most certainly not be leaving my foreigner-fingerprinting police-state-becoming country to visit that foreigner-fingerprinting police-state-becoming country!"
Every country has such places, remember just because a white american can visit most places in white holland, that doesn't mean a black american could. Racism is still very active and it is more accepted in areas were racial diversity is low.
But lets turn this around, are whites accepted in all black or muslim places in the west?
One amazing piece of racist behaviour was done here in holland a while back. People called employers and pretended to be muslims trying for a job interview. They claimed that they encountered racism when some of the people were refused, while if they tried with person who didn't sound like a muslim, they did get invited for a futher interview.
The most amazing racism however was NOT by the employers but by the people doing the experiment, it didn't even occur to them to call muslim employers and pretend to be gay or jewish and see if they would get invited. Racism is often very easy to ignore if you don't want to see it.
There are no such things as bars in japan that are legally for japanese only. They just got clubs that just don't give memberships to foreigners, or where a foreigner is treated so coldly that you wouldn't want to visit. Is it racism if the heavies in a club stand so close you just leave? Yes it is, but that happens in all kinds of places. People are racist.
For instance, the western religions have been under some pressure to allow women priests. Why is there no such pressure on female imans to be allowed? Because the people fighting sexism are racist?
Note that this measure of fingerprinting is NOT racist. It is NOT based on race, a japanese person who lost citizenship would also be subjected to it, despite being of the same race. Wake up, most of the world has different rules for foreigners then nationals.
Truly if you believe that there is one single country in the world that doesn't have places where foreigners are not welcome, you have lived a very sheltered life.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Well, I cancelled my summer holiday to Japan, a country I always wanted to visit. I will not visit a country that treats a visitor like a common criminal, which is why I don't go to the U.S. any more either. The countries that are doing this are losing out on tourist money - tough sh*t!!!
Take Nobody's Word For It.
The guy on the desk just said "Oh, you need to put 'no' for that - I assume you're not a terrorist right?". How we laughed.
Not all immigration staff are idiots, some are quite nice.
throw new NoSignatureException();
I find the whole issue annoying in the extreme, though not only because I don't want to be finger-printed, but because of the result of such laws. --That is, the overall effect is that such actions discourage people from traveling. Whenever a system goes fascist, they always try to prevent people from from traveling to other places. It's hard to realize just how oppressed you are, or just how much you are being lied to about other nations when you have no way to physically compare perspectives. Many people in the States, for instance, think that France is a horrid place to live and that the social services there don't work.
Japan is definitely under the rule of the Right these days. Hopefully they'll be able to undo all the damage which is being done to their country before it reaches the irreversible point. --Their government recently allowed new laws drafted by their department of defense dictating that school children must be indoctrinated with nationalist propaganda in the classroom. Charming. Classically, this means that war of some kind is about ten years down the road.
-FL
I wrote a piece for my school's paper on racism and xenophobia in Japan, as a response to the new fingerprinting law. It goes into a bit more depth about the other issues facing foreigners in Japan. http://www.themanitoban.com/2007-2008/1114/127.The.Land.of.the.Rising.Shun.php
While I agree with the sentiment of your idea, the International Olympic Committee is only concerned about the financial aspects of the application. Well, logistics too, but they don't give a damn is the efficiency of logistics is used for oppressive purposes as long as the financials give them green light.
When the IOC awarded the fabled Olympic Games to the oppressive dictatorship in Beijing they publicly (and superficially) declared that the Games would result in greater freedoms for the Chinese (term which they ostensibly apply to the neighbouring peoples under Chinese military occupation as well). However exactly the opposite is true. The Chinese Communist Party, with complete control over the police, paramilitary and military forces, has the logistical muscle to prevent any and all dissent aimed at the regime or their Berlin '36-esque olympic party. The foreign press was given nominally increased freedom (which ends exactly when the games are over!) to travel and report in most parts of actual China (while the occupied Tibet is completely out of bounds) but in reality all reporters are still followed by the regime, people talking to them are harassed or detained and the reporters may still get kicked out at the pleasure of the local or central Party cadres.
Simply put, the supposed openness of the Chinese regime and the human rights interests of the IOC are nothing but a sham. In fact, top IOC officials have even picked up the Chinese Communist Party habit of lashing out at the "annoying and meddling human rights groups" who are trying to raise the issue of worsening human rights conditions in China with the IOC. Instead of showcasing the brotherhood and equality between peoples on this planet, the olympics have now officially become just another faceless money-grabbing organization willing to (ab)use its commercial prominency for rehabilitating and normalizing the image of an oppressive dictatorship which continues to hold its peaceful neighbouring peoples under genocidal occupation...
What comes to the battle between Chicago (USA) and Tokyo (Japan) in vying for the olympic circus of 2016, it would appear that travelling to either destination subjects the visitor to the same humiliating and xenophobic treatment upon arrival. However the saddest thing about democratic or semi-democratic countries imposing these kinds of surveillance measures on foreign visitors is that it gives the authoritarian regimes fake justification for further increasing their own gestapo-like measures against any potential domestic opposition. Unbelievably, the Chinese regime even publically plays up their role as a "US partner in the war against terror" as they "strike hard" (also the name of the campaign) against the Tibetans, Uighurs or Mongols who dare to as much as speak about freedom from occupation.
Sadly, the American right-wing lead marketing campaign about terrorism (see: using external threats in world history and politics) appears to have turned all of East Asia (with the possible exception of Taiwan) back towards more xenophobic policies and even militarism. Well, if one strongly believes in the religious inevitability of armageddon then this is certainly the way to go!
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Isn't it rather easy to provide fake fingerprints? Using their kitchen-sink laboratory, the Mythbusters created false prints which were good enough to fool the most expensive fingerprint door locks. Are the scanners at airports any more sophisticated?
Here is the content of an email a friend forwarded to me, originally sent from the European Business Council in Japan to Europeans doing business in Japan. After the clipped email is the content of the MS Word attachment describing a new quick pass gate system, which it seems they got from the Japanese government.
I lost my first post which included this and a small rant. Whatever. I am quite unhappy about this, and it seems to reverse the direction they were going, but the U.S. remains the king of security theater and it is an easy political win I suppose. They already got my photo and fingerprint from my passport and old foreigner card but I know I'm going to hate this. If it is in fact required.
Forwarded Email:
---
Further to my message on new immigration procedures last week, this is to
inform you that Ministry of Justice has now issued instructions in English
on how to undergo pre-registration for the new semi automatic gate system to
be established at Narita Airport on November 20.
Please find attached the instruction document, which should be available
soon on the MoJ website.
---
[For Foreigners]
(Reference Material for the PR Dept.)
Operation of the Automated Gate
Ministry of Justice, Immigration Bureau
1. Introduction
Automated gates will be placed at Narita Airport from November 20th, 2007, in order to improve convenience of immigration procedures by simplifying and accelerating them. We would like to ask foreigners who wish to use the automated gates to provide their personal identification information (fingerprints and a facial portrait) in advance and register themselves as applicants in order to use the gate.
2. Registration as an Applicant to Use the Automated Gate
1. Required Items for Registration
1. Valid passport (including Re-entry Permit) and re-entry permission
2. Application form to use the automated gate
2. Where and When to Register
We will be accepting applications from November 20th at the locations stated below:
1. Tokyo Regional Immigration Bureau
Application Counter for re-entry permission (2F) 9:00-16:00 (Except Saturdays, Sundays, National Holidays and December 29th to January 3rd)
2. Narita Airport District Immigration Office
The departure inspection area at South Wing of Passenger Terminal 1: 9:00-17:00
The departure inspection area at the South Exit of Passenger Terminal 2: 9:00-17:00
3. Registration Procedures
Submit your application form with your passport and provide fingerprints of both index fingers and a facial portrait.
Then, when the official affixes a registration stamp on your passport, the registration procedure is complete. In principle, you can use the gate from that day forward.
4. Points of Concern for the Registration
1. Time Limit of Registration
You can register until the expiration date of your passport or the expiration date of your re-entry permit, whichever comes earlier.
2. Registration Restrictions
In some cases, such as when you cannot provide fingerprints, you may not be able to register.
3. Using and Providing the Registered Information
We will manage information including fingerprints and facial portraits provided at the registration as personal information set forth in laws on protection of personal informati
i once heard of a way with powdered drano, cutting a small cut with an exacto knife in the second layer of skin(the one right before you bleed), putting a drano granule in it screaming and writhing for 10 minutes, repeat 3-5 times on each finger, doesn't leave any surface scarring yet completely changes your fingerprints due to under skin scarring. if you really don't want to get fingerprinted, do that lol... Disclaimer: Author does not endorse this idea, whether you do this is up to you, and I take no repsonsibility as to your actions. Translation for non nerds who MIGHT be reading slashdot: if it hurts really bad and you hate me for giving you a working but painful idea, its your own fault don't try suing me =D
-Noc
Just saying...
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
There goes my plan for a holiday in the next year or so. Thank you for the warning.
Dear Japan: Please note that people currently avoid the US for this crap, and now we avoid you.
As much as I'd love to visit the Land Of Anime.. No.
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?cmd=contentview&pid=000188
scary.
What about plastic surgery which removes fingerprints?
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
Doubtful that you'll see anyone but the LDP running things for long time. Prior to the electoral reforms put in place by the coalition government formed in 1993, the multi-member constituencies allowed the LDP to run many candidates in a single district and effectively have each one try to cater to a specific interest group, and generally being able to sweep most if not all seats in the diet. However, as is typical in Japanese political dealings, the LDP generally tried to incorporate the views of the opposition in forming a consensus, so very little opposition formed. Electoral reform, with the new system being a mixture of proportional representation and single-member constituencies, did little to lessen the symptoms of de-facto single-party rule.
....that the Japanese are doing this, especially from their cultural view.
I live in Japan. Yes, like many others, I am an English teacher.
I teach their CHILDREN, I mean, middle and elementary, and they want to brand me a criminal?
Don't get me wrong- I speak Japanese bilingually (unlike most of my fellow teachers), but just because the others
cannot does not make them anymore of a security risk than I.
The thing is, it's true- FINGERPRINTING IN JAPAN is reserved only for proven criminals.
And this law treats everyone the same. Like a criminal.
Doesn't matter how long you've been here, what your job is, as far as *many* Japanese are concerned, you are
dangerous simply because you are a foreigner. This is due to: drunken fighting Russians (in my area), Pot smoking
teachers from my USA (also arrested in my area), and a general fucking SAFETY COMPLEX of the entire population. I won't even begin
to impress upon you the depth of how far the last one goes, but just so you get an idea, they devote national TV time to
discussing single local problems of mundane risk- I just watched a program show a whole news story on how people in one
village are pissed that everyone pulls U-Turns in their intersection. It's fucking surreal. This is my second time living
here, and I still can't believe it. Daily life here is a continual safety thesis overanalyzed by an increasingly frightened
and xenophobic populous. All it takes is one of us fucking up and the whole nation notices- take Mr. Pothead- he had to apologize
on NATIONAL TV.
Couple this with every single portrayal of foreigners on shows, commercials, & TV personalities, which paint us all as blithering otaku
idiots incapable of speaking Japanese without overly emphasised ridiculous accents, and THAT FUCKING VIDEO from the Ministry, which only
makes us look worse, and it does it with such blunt smugness and everyones favorite keywords "9-11" & "terror", and the Orwellian
doublespeak "Fingerprinting YOU is for YOUR safety"...
If this was addressed to the Japanese people, they would be infurated & insulted beyond belief in the way their own standards
of conduct are being completely SHIT upon as they are smiled at by the woman in the video.
So why aren't the Japanese complaining about this labeling of people working here and 99% living peaceably?
Because it's not them. Because it's anyone BUT them. Complete moral disregard. I love the Japanese, but HOW VERY UNJAPANESE THIS IS.
My personal biometric data is none of your goddamned business UNLESS I COMMIT AN ACTUAL CRIME. Excuse me while I burn my fingers on the
stove oh so conveiniently.
The problem with these measures is that they filter out the wrong part of the spectrum. People that has nothing to lose, that travels to become an "illegal" immigrant keep going, same with terrorists or any other evildoer. While the regular and "legal" tourists or workers think twice before traveling.
The USA have been fingerprinting *and* photographing visitors for a long time. Maybe if others finally start doing the same to you now, you'll get off of your fat arses and lobby your politicians to have that changed (or don't you think that it's a bad thing? Then don't complain about it when others are doing it to you, either).
So, yeah - go Japan!
The local Library in my small rural Iowa, USA town. That's right as a kid in the early eighties I went to the public library to get my fingerprints taken and put into the system. We was told it was for security. In case a child ended up lost, they could ID them (the body) when found.
But sure it must be an outrage to have adults get their fingerprints taken. Um seriously. . . if they want to jail you, then they'll bring you in to the police station and fingerprint you then. And if you are worried that you migth get arrested for doing something illegal just because they have your fingerprint on file, then your probably already doing something illigal.
Self proclaimed wannabe geek. You know how it is. Most of us who read this stuff probably fit in that category.
This is one of the many reasons I don't want the government in charge of my family's health care.
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
Here is a very high profile case of someone who did, in fact, successfully renounce his Canadian citizenship.
Of course, if you look into Conrad's story, he wants it back now!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Well, I have to say the timing sucks for me.. but it could be worse. At the moment I had plans drawn up, plane flights being discussed and dates being proposed for a Nice Holiday In Japan. I've yet to action the re-allocation of this plan.. but part of it will be to send a nice email to the Japanese Embassy in Canberra thanking them for their information and events over the last few years and advising them that I will never visit Japan to my great sorrow.
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
First off, if you follow Japanese politics, this is much less reciprocity than it is collaboration.
Secondly, I think we can all agree that both the Japanese and the US policies are an invasion of privacy. No one should be pleased that either exists. The fact that the US has a similar program in place has no bearing on the fact that this policy is crap regardless of the country implementing it.
I haven't visited the US since they've implemented their policy and, as a resident of Japan, the next time I leave the country, I won't be returning until this policy is revoked.
From my point of view, it means that when we move back to Canada, I won't be accompanying my wife and daughter on trips back to visit her grand-parents in Kyoto. It means that for the next few years, unless I want to be fingerprinted, my holidays will be taken within the country. To anyone seriously concerned with this system and/or willing to take a stand against it, this places some serious restrictions on your ability to move freely.
Having the history of every place you've lived or worked since you got to Japan right there on the back of your card is very handy when filling out those address update forms at the post office!
I wish I could think of a sarcastic remark for that time they put the big yellow banners up in Shinagawa station encouraging everyone to turn in foreign criminals. If the Japanese spent as much money on fighting crime in general instead of blindly blaming the gaijin, the crime rate might not still be climbing.
You're absolutely correct: the Japanese cannot force Canada to strip you of your citizenship.
The Japanese can and do require a letter from the Canadian government stating that you have renounced your citizenship and that they will strip you of it once the Japanese government grants Japanese citizenship. If I remember correctly, most countries are signatories to a UN treaty that makes it illegal for a country to strip you of citizenship if it will leave you stateless, which is why the two-phase approach.
If you obtain Japanese citizenship, then don't follow through with renouncing your other citizenship, the Japanese may strip you of your Japanese citizenship.
This has nothing to do with taking a poke at either the Japanese or the Americans. This type of invasion of privacy is wrong no matter where it takes place. We should all be making it clear to both these countries that this won't be tolerated.
So next time you take a plane to japan, just before leaving, take a candle and a needle... heat the needle a bit and put in on your finger print sideway.
This will mark them for a few days and make them slick wheere it touches the side of the needle (Don't prick yourself though!)
These Korean racists believe that, say, Mexican-Americans are loyal to Mexico, not the USA, because their blood is "Mexican".
Also, these Korean racists believe that responsibility for the war is inherited from one generation to the next. Even though nearly all Japanese today were born after the war and hence do not owe an apology to anyone for that atrocity, these Korean racists claim that today's Japanese still owe an apology.
Korean racism is disgusting -- and hypocritical. Koreans (from North Korea) shot at Americans during the Korean War while Americans were protecting other Koreans (in South Korea). Why haven't the racist Koreans (in South Korea) apologized to us Americans for this act of violence by Koreans (in North Korea)? Hmmmm?
No, the Americans did not start this stupid airport mess. The Arabs started it, and in specific, the Palestinians started it when they decided to enact a policy of randomly selecting civilian aircraft, hijacking them, and murdering passengers in order to focus world attention on their political situation. This hijacking and selected murder (of Jewish passengers) policy started in the late 1960s and continued until the civilized world was forced to enact 'this airport mess' in order to try and stop it.
Please have no illusions about who is responsible for this current aircraft 'security' nightmare.
I'm very glad you've decided to roll over for this, but how about considering the possibility that just maybe, some people don't like the idea of being treated the same as criminals by the country they've been living in for the last 20 years?
I wanted to visit Japan, but now I think I'll pass. I realize the irony in the fact that my country does the same to others, and I've been fingerprinted for my job, the DMV, and my CHL. If this were a preventative for terrorism I could understand, but what good is having a suicide bomber's fingerprints after the fact? I don't even worry much about security these days, odds are in my lifetime my credit card numbers will be leaked or stolen, everyone has my SSN number, even my cable company, doesn't even seem like a secret any more, so what difference does fingerprinting make? Don't expect much to change, but I'll at least my my stand here, and punish Japan by denying them my money and presence, but I think they will recover.
An I.T. motto in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing...
I guess Japan is finally taking lessons from Disney World. You should see the people allowing their fingerprints to be scanned with nothing more than a smile.
Think of it as the Al Capone option. Even if they can't get you on anything else, they can nail you for lying on your immigation form.
...laura
...isolationist xenophobes...
It is no longer possible to hijack a plane.
After 9/11, no passengers would stand by and allow hijackers to command a plane. This applies most strongly to any american planes. As an example, look what happened to the last plane on 9/11? The passengers, when they realized planes are being flown into buildings, fought back. People will always try to survive. If the choice (in the past) was sit quietly until hijackers get what they want vs. risk of getting killed, people played safe. Now, that choice is sitting quietly while plane will be crashed and you dieing or risk a death by fighting back, people will fight (safer option).
You do not have to worry about people as much anymore as the stuff that goes onto the plane. The baggages. The parcels. Today's "security" practices are not really doing that - they are still optimized to counter 9/11. But they wouldn't work back then. The terrorists back then could still intimidate and take over a plane by bluffing (why? see above for the old mentality of what hijacking meant for safety).
In conclusion, the reactionary "tactics" of people and policy makers (who should know better) are to blame for the "security" mess.
This article conveys very well my mood every time I enter the US and get fingerprinted.
And how exactly is this different to the USA fingerprinting foreigners, even of "friendly" countries like Australia?
He was modd'ed down for no reason. It was NOT "Redundant"!
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
I lived in Japan for 8 years, speak/read/write the language well, and still use it regularly in my job today. I love Japan and at some future point, might take a posting there with my current employer. And I'm fine with them fingerprinting all non-Japanese on entry. I lived there long enough ago that I had my thumb print on my gaijin card. No big deal. When I worked for a bank in the U.S., all 10 of my fingerprints were taken and put on file with the FBI. It's a condition of employment. No big deal. If I didn't like it, I had the option of not working at a bank. If I didn't like having my thumb print on my gaijin card, I had the option of not living in Japan. Nobody made me go there. I went because I wanted to, accepting that a lot of things are different there than back home. Some I'm not so keen on, some I like very much. If the bad outweighed the good, I had the option to not go, or to not stay.
Opinion, aside, there are a number of factual inaccuracies in your comments:
1) Fingerprinting in Japan is not reserved only for proven criminals. Anyone charged with a crime will be fingerprinted, and Japan also has previous history with fingerprinting foreigners (maybe you've even had a thumb-print gaijin card yourself).
2) This fingerprinting is not un-Japanese at all. If you think so, you understand both Japan and the Japanese rather poorly.
Apart from those errors, you present a mix of arguments that aren't even being made, plus some evidence that seems to support fingerprinting, rather than oppose it:
"drunken fighting Russians (in my area), Pot smoking teachers from my USA (also arrested in my area)"
(Aside: sounds like you live in Hokkaido.)
"Don't get me wrong- I speak Japanese bilingually (unlike most of my fellow teachers), but just because the others
cannot does not make them anymore of a security risk than I."
AFAIK no one in the Japanese government is making that claim. Certainly, the fingerprinting law doesn't provide an exemption for people who can speak Japanese.
Sure, Japan has a strong safety culture, but so what? During my eight years in Japan, I always knew the way to Narita airport, in case I decided that I didn't like it there anymore. If you don't like the safety culture, try SE Asia. I lived there, too, and people seem to go about with casual disregard for safety, doing a lot of really dangerous stuff all the time. Maybe you'll like it better. It's certainly a change of pace, and I mostly liked SEA, except for the heavy traffic and air pollution.
If you really believe your personal biometric data is none of your business, you have a simple solution, the same one I had. Make your way to the airport. Clearly, the Japanese government disagrees with you on that issue, and the majority of Japanese also either do so, or at least do not agree with you strongly enough to require their government not do this, after all.
At the end of the day, it's their country, not yours or mine, and they make the rules. If you don't like the rules they make, you should get out or you'll wind up hating the place. That's not a troll, just a piece of friendly (and correct) advice from someone who lived there a long time and would have been a lifer if I hadn't married another foreigner while I was there.
Say... get creative with a soldering iron over a bottle of vodka?
Laughing man logo comes to mind as a logical choice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughing_Man_(Ghost_in_the_Shell)
Some nice curses written in kanji would also be nice.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
[...] nightmare.
You misspelled "theater"*.
Rich
*So did I. I'm English. Been here too long.
So now I won't be traveling to the states or Japan. I wonder how much moves like this affect tourism.
Dammit all to hell... I've been wanting to go to Japan for about 4 years and have been slowly saving up money for a trip there. Now Japan is (until I can get trustworthy evidence that they've stopped this) on my list of "DO NOT TRAVEL" countries along with such places as China and Singapore. Dammit... The Anime Characters I love wouldn't put up with this!!!!
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
...of any population. Libertarians craz... erm, committed enough to get worked up about putting their finger on a scanner and smiling *for the webcam over the possibility that the info will be used to incriminate them for some made-up-by government crime in the future is a smaller share still (although a large portion dwells on Slashdot). Hence, the impact of travel to Japan will be negligible.
As for the actual issue, any country has a right to know who they let in - if they want to snap a picture when I visit, I will let them. If they want me to verify my indentity by biometric means, I have no problem with that. The risk that the whole procedure will somehow harm me is likely to be far smaller than that of getting struck by lightning while doing backflips in a greased-up bathtub.
*I speak from experience.
Nonsense.
No child's fingerprints taken in the US as part of an identification process were ever put into any "system". The 10-card (or whatever) was given back to the parents. I do not know of any school that wanted to keep it either - too much file space.
Paranoid is clearly OK on Slashdot, stupid isn't.
Just thought I should mention that Colombia is also now fingerprinting foreigners applying for tourist visa renewals. They use some kind of sophisticated machine. So at least I didn't have to suffer from the indignity of black/blue ink on my fingers. It was annoying that they fingerprinted every finger on my hand. As if one weren't enough. Grrr. Still better than the US and now Japan though since you do not need to submit fingerprints just to enter the country.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
> Now this is the thinking you need to get rid of. Just because police takes fingerprints from criminals doesn't mean by taking fingerprints you are labeled criminal. It's normal to leave fingerprints. It's cool.
That's not how Japan works, though. It's not so much that you're being fingerprinted, it's that everyone else looks at you like you're some kind of criminal, even when you're not. You can control your own feelings and thoughts, it's everyone else who mucks it up.
There's nothing for *me* to get over. The trouble is everyone else.
We face the same when trying to get a visa or when we enter the USA, read on...
I'm Mexican and I applied for a visa to travel to USA on 2005. I was told by the officer, that I qualified for the visa and they would actually give it to me, but there were some other two guys with my name, weight and height that had commited some crimes in the USA, so they had to make sure it wasn't me (Imagine my surprise, it was completly unexpected to me). They took my fingerprints (anyway they take your fingerprints when you request the visa, but they asked me to take them for a second time and in another office in the USA Embassy) and sent it to the FBI, which would confirm the result (negative, of course) and they sent the visa.
But there's some interesting points about this:
1. You have to pay an extra fee to get your fingerprints sent to the FBI.
2. They make you feel like you're a criminal by sending your information to the FBI to "confirm" you're not a bad guy.
3. My lastname isn't very common in Mexico (actually it's very rare), so it's really strange to find someone with the same fullname, weight and height TWICE, and they both criminals.
4. Many people face the same process.
When you get into the USA they also take you fingerprints (I don't know what they do with them, anyway).
I've been in Europe and it isn't the case, actually, Mexican citizens do not need a visa as we need it for the USA. We're free to enter and leave EU member countries and there isn't any fingerprint scanning.
I'll be there in three weeks, I hope things haven't changed.
Bottom line: It's difficult for a Mexican to get a visa to the USA and we receive a different treatment there, than we receive in other countries, like those in Europe.
Sad but true.
Miguel
"Barefoot.
BY RUNNING PAST THE COPS AND OUT HIS FRONT DOOR.
They still haven't found him. They won't."
Ninja.
My thoughts exactly. Or, more specifically, one-fingered gloves. This would be more visible as a protest.
Please help publicise swpat.org - the software patents wiki
If you had clearences without even a fingerprinting to prove who you are and that you're not a criminal, then that's not particularly good security. I'm sure passports are harder to fake than drivers licenses, but I doubt it would stop anyone at all serious about espionage. A simple fingerprinting would go a long way in that case.
I don't know if this has happened in Japan yet:
http://www.seoulselection.com/streetwise_read.html?cid=4036&area=home
Past crimes cause teacher to be deported
November 08, 2007
"For the first time in Korea, an English teacher has been deported for a crime he committed before coming here, the Justice Ministry announced yesterday.
An American whose name was not released was deported, the Justice Ministry said, after a previous conviction in Los Angeles of possessing and distributing child pornography was uncovered."
and, from the same article:
"Currently, 17,020 native English speakers are working as language teachers in Korea on E-2 visas, according to data from the ministry.
Through August of this year, 100 teachers were caught on visa violations or felonies committed in Korea. Eighteen were deported, but 82 were allowed to remain here."
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Personally I really could not give a shit...Orson Wells and Big Brother is here including facial recognition and CCTV. The UK is the most spied on Nation on Earth. My fingerprints were taken when I went to the USA last year and a retina scan. The USA forced Japan into doing this, besides the Japanese are quite amiable toward this as they are high profile with camera's around their necks. It is just more "big brother", Did you know terrorism would disappear if people were more friendly, Hollywood sponsors terrorist films to keep it in front of your mind.... not only that, The USA is just a bully. Nice justification's from America "Friendly Fire" is bollocks. The USA have done this because of North Korea and probably Bush's involvement with the CIA like his DAD and CIA dirty tricks. I would like to say I have some very nice friends in the USA. Therefore not making USA citizen's "outcasts" I apologise in advance. Please keep the truth! Kind Regards, Roo
I wonder how many people are going to try this after reading your post?!?!
Libertas in infinitum