The gpl code got checked into a public CVS repository, it wasn't distributed as part of any OpenBSD release. This bsd code was checked into a public git repository and it wasn't distributed as part of the linux kernel.
So far so similar.
When the gpl violation was pointed out it was pulled from cvs within a couple of hours, and both Theo and the developer responsible admitted it was a mistake, the "hissy fit" was aboput *how* it was pointed out (by CCing in large portions of the internet rather then a privet word to the developers involved.
When the BSD violation was pointed out the response seems to have been to try and find any loop hole possible to get away with it.
Neither incident have been free softwares finest moments, but nowhere near as clear cut as your partisan summary
Their official name is SIS or the Secret Intelligence Service. The name MI6 is more of a nickname then anything else, sort of like calling the (current) Russian intelligence service the KGB.
Apparently MI6 was the liason department between SIS and Military Intelligence during WWII.
Re:Or maybe women, in general, are just bad at IT?
on
Women Leaving I.T.
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· Score: 2, Insightful
This was even apparent at school, where even though only 5% of the students were female, only 30% of them had any business being there. (Then again, only 30% of the guys had any business being there, so it's even in that regard.)
This is really the heart of the point if you have a low number of women entering IT then you have a very low number of women who are any good entering IT. I can count on one hand the number of women I have met who were good at IT as well, but I can only count on hand the number of women I have met who were actually involved in IT anyway (well it may be 2 hands but with several spare fingers!) so how does that prove women are naturally bad at the subject? surely its more likely to prove that many women who would be good at it dont get involved for some reason.
I'm with you on there being a wider problem of society funnelling people ionto gender stereotypes though, but lets face it its easier to change the attitudes of some computer professionals then the entire of society
So the reason less women enter the field of IT is because less women enter the field of IT. Well damn. Give that man tenure.
Yes the conditions are the same for everyone, but those conditions are designed for men, and so while they're the same for everyone obviously men (and normally single men without kids) will get the most from them and women (and to some extent men with kids) will find them very hard to work under and so, unless they are far more commited then their male collegues will leave to find something that doesn't make it quite so hard to live their lives.
There are many more women in nursing (not so sure about teaching but I dont live in the US) but how does that make things right in the IT industry?
Ah I see the evil liberals have been literally chaining these poor women to computers in an attempt to force them to do things that their poor little brains just aren't capable of, and now good ol' george dubya has released them from their bondage and allowed them to doing things they really are good at like raising children and a little light dusting.
Seriously, in the real world sure the vast majority of women aren't interested in computers, just like the vast majority of men aren't (and good on them) but should those who are interested (including my girlfriend seeing as you ask) shouldn't be driven out of the industry because people like you make sweeping generalisations and stereotype 50% of the worlds population (thats more than 3 BILLION people by the way) by saying "computers just aren't there [sic] thing" for many its not, for some it certainly is.
It's only liberals who think that women should be forced to be programmers even if they don't want to be.
Where I come from liberals are people who support the Liberal party and forcing women to become programmers doesn't rank high on their manifesto comitments.
By the way I like how you started at "most women" and used that to make claims about all women, hoping I would agree with the first part and then wouldn't notice the inflation, scattered in a few personnal insults in an attempt to get me mad enough not to think straight, tried to make out that I'd insulted you first so you couldn't be blamed for bringing the converstaion down, and then put words into my mouth to paint my views as obviously stupid, and then accuse me of forcing women to do things they don't want to to make me look like I'm opressing them by saying that some men are bigots. Its a good debating technique to use when you have no real arguement to use.
Well have a read of some of the comments about women here (or anywhere else on slashdot) and tell me that you dont think there is at least a large minority of sexist swine here. No its not a scientific study but if you got these sorts of attitudes in a debate about any other industry you'd be shocked and appalled, here its just business as usual.
Of course there are other factors in play here, working conditions that expect you to put in long hours and be on call, a lack of other women to provide support and role models, probably as many other reasons as there are women leaving the industry, but the juvenial attitudes of many men dont help.
No before you respond criticising my post how about you come up with some alternative reasons.
Stuff social perception, but in technology terms yeah you're right but the waves of inovation and cutting-edgeness (hmm a new word for the day!) have been driven by people who dont understand the old rules and so are free to reinvent them. Now think of all those women who have left or will never enter the industry and consider that to re-ignite that innovation it would only take a few people with a new outlook on IT and computers, and new ideas of how to solve problems, or even new problems to solve and tell how driving women out of the industry helps.
I don't think it is a concern if women are leaving IT because they can get better jobs elsewhere or because there are less IT jobs or something.
What is a concern is if they're leaving because they're being driven out by sexist attitudes or working conditions (not deliberately sexist perhaps, but more likely designed by single men, for single men and with a "you have to change your life, because we're not changing our conditions" attitude). If this is the case then a) that shows a deep ingrained prejedice that belongs in the 50's rather then a 21st century cutting edge industry, and b) we're losing lots of very talented people who can bring whole new ideas and ways of looking at problems into the industry because they were born with a particular set of physical characteristics rather then for any worthwhile reason.
Diversity is good, not just in the operating system and software market but also in the people that produce that software.
Judging by many of the replys so far probably the bigest thing driving women out of IT is the attitude of male IT workers who seem to think that we're still living in the 50's, for an industry thats meant to be the cutting edge of the future, many peoples attitudes seem to be about as old fashioned as they come.
The market in Britain fo a technical computing magazine is so small to be almost below the profitability level due to a much smaller population and no real native computer industry, so to survive they need have a wider market appeal then just geeks and techies and that inevitably means less technical articles and more games reviews
I think its begining to change with Linux and a generation that has grown up around computers, but many publications that can live happily in the US market would be bust within months here.
Consider the Crusades, the slaughter of the Cathars, the wars that were sparked by the Reformation, Cromwell, the witch hunts, Northern Ireland, and the list goes on and on
Cromwell was responsible for allowing Jews into Britain (they'd been banned since the middle ages) and for the instituting official toleration of christian sects, allowing freedom of conscience to all. I dont think he really had anything against Catholics particularly as long as they knew their place, i.e. not holding any sort of power, not trying to force their beliefs on anyone else (aka preach), or take up arms against parliment or him, its just when they did he was uncompromising about it and lots of people tended to die.
Also Northern Ireland is a political dispute rather then religious, for a number of reasons the two sides tend to break out along religous lines, but there are protestant republicans and catholic loyalists, its just uncommon.
I cant argue with the crusades etc though.
Its worth noting that although here in England we have an official state religion (the Church Of England logically enough) I was taught about Islam, Judeaism, Sikhism etc in school. The emphasis was on the similarities in principal and differences in custom rather then any "ours is better then yours" dogma.
One guy has done nothing wrong (legal gun owner) and is trying to defend himself.
But he has, he's waved a firearm around in a public place. So actually both guys are commiting crimes that have the potential to injure or kill somebody.
If the person with the firearm uses it and hits an innocent bystander should he be let off because he was just protecting himself? He is carrying out an action that has potentially disasterous consequences for others who have nothing to do with the crime why should he be allowed to put others at risk in this way?
I dont understand Americans obbsession with the freedom to use items designed urely to injure and kill in anyway they please without restriction.
Every other country in the Western World (and many other places for that matter) manage to have teachers unions and many of them have much lower illiteracy rate then the US, and many of those union members are highly skilled, highly qualified, and highly motivated proffessionals who are dedicated to their vocation. So seeing as everybody else manages it why does the US have such a problem?
it is wholly bizzare that these kind of things are still centerally planned in England,
Ahh, decentralise control over the IT standards used, sit back and watch the chaos that ensues when some hospitals stick to Office97, some upgrade to officeXP, others turn to OpenOffice, some get a good deal from Apple and move to Appleworks, some cut a deal with Sun for StarOffice and a few get Lotus or Wordperfect etc and suddenly nobody in Britains largest employer can talk to anyone else.
Honestly if a major corporation (say British Telecom, 100,000+ employees) decided to centrally plan their IT standards at director level would you even blink? No, in fact you'd post about how insane they were if they wanted decentralise it to local office managers, but because its a public service suddenly it should all be decentralised and decided by the local sys-admins? Just because its central government dosn't automatically mean its bad,
Exactly...so why vote? Why try to change things? Hopefully some nice, strong leader will just "take over" our country and tell us how things are going to be
Oh you've so missed the point...
Its an anarchist slogan, the point being that if you really want signficant change you cant get it by voting in a new leader because change is never in the leaderships interests (the current system is the one that gave them power after all) so if voting had any chance of really changing anything they'd abolish it. You cant change things by voting once every four (or five or whatever years) and you certainly cant change things by sitting on your arse and trusting a leader to do it for you.
A representative democracy is just a dictatorship that changes its appearence now and then, the power stays within the same small clique. If you really want change you have to get out and make it happen, take the power back and bring about the anarchist free (non)state. Revolution Now.
Its amazing how many people belive choosing between the Democrats and Republicans (or Labour and Tories or whoever) offer a real choice rather then just the same old same old. No mater who you vote for its always pretty much the same government who gets in.
Re:Green is not the real color...
on
Green Geeks?
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· Score: 1
Libertaian-socialism is the anarchist strand of socialist theory, try Bakunin and Kropotkin (and others) for references.
They tend to advocate the willing co-operation of people, communal ownership of property and the means of production for the good of all, without coercion (direct democracy being the normal means of acheiving this)
Try also looking up the Spanish Civil war (Esp. the CNT and FAI anarcho-socialist trade unionist forces) and the forces commanded by Nestor Makhno during the Russian Civil War. There are also a fair number of other smaller scale examples but I'll leave finding these as an exercise for the reader.
I have been trolled...
bil
P.S. do I get bonus marks for describing myself as as a democractic-libertarian-socialism republican without being inconsistant?
Check out the newscientist interview with Mr. Alibek here.
with my favourite quote:-
"One of the biggest problems is that we don't know whether or not we have had such attacks. We are just ignorant. We cannot distinguish between naturally occurring epidemics and ones we create. I'm not saying that foot and mouth disease is [the result of a biological attack] because I don't know. But if you see something this size in the 21st century, it is getting very suspicious. To imagine that we have had nothing for the past few decades and then suddenly such a huge, uncontrollable epidemic of foot and mouth disease--it raises many questions."
If you've ever thought "it could never happen here" then the fact that one of the worlds experts isn't so sure must certainly be something to think about...
>That is an odd quote, since communists have historically been a major contributor to "why they go hungry" (Ukraine under Stalin, tens of millions starving in China under Mao, Ethiopia famine engineered by USSR "land reform").
I could go into the details of why Stalinism!= communism, or detail how many people are killed each year by global capitalism, but I cant be bothered...
The quote isn't mine to rewrite, but if you prefer change the word communist for any other insult you wish, the meaning remains. Basically good acts are saintly as long as you dont start to question the power of the elite ruling class, because then equally good acts will be portrayed as evil using whatever sort of FUD will be most effective.
bil
Re:Unions doing the bashing....
on
Dial U for Union
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· Score: 1
>So you are admitting that even in the UK the workers are forced to pay political funds. They are forced to support certain political causes just because others have voted for it. Why not instead let each worker choose?
Actually I'm sure that when I was a member of a union (before I went back to uni) I had the choice wether to pay into the political fund or not, I think the cost to me was the same either way but I could choose wether some of that money was syphoned off to the political fund, or wether it all went to union activities. I have a feeling that this choice is a legal requirement on the unions, but INAL so might be wrong
Slashdot Mirror
Then I should point you to http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/ just in case you aren't aware of the lug from which it emerged either :)
The gpl code got checked into a public CVS repository, it wasn't distributed as part of any OpenBSD release. This bsd code was checked into a public git repository and it wasn't distributed as part of the linux kernel.
So far so similar.
When the gpl violation was pointed out it was pulled from cvs within a couple of hours, and both Theo and the developer responsible admitted it was a mistake, the "hissy fit" was aboput *how* it was pointed out (by CCing in large portions of the internet rather then a privet word to the developers involved.
When the BSD violation was pointed out the response seems to have been to try and find any loop hole possible to get away with it.
Neither incident have been free softwares finest moments, but nowhere near as clear cut as your partisan summary
Eh. MI _stands_ for "Military Intelligence",
Their official name is SIS or the Secret Intelligence Service. The name MI6 is more of a nickname then anything else, sort of like calling the (current) Russian intelligence service the KGB.
Apparently MI6 was the liason department between SIS and Military Intelligence during WWII.
The rest of the point stands however.
Do Sun love Microsoft or are they just saying that to get laid?
No, Ecclestone can act...
This was even apparent at school, where even though only 5% of the students were female, only 30% of them had any business being there. (Then again, only 30% of the guys had any business being there, so it's even in that regard.)
This is really the heart of the point if you have a low number of women entering IT then you have a very low number of women who are any good entering IT. I can count on one hand the number of women I have met who were good at IT as well, but I can only count on hand the number of women I have met who were actually involved in IT anyway (well it may be 2 hands but with several spare fingers!) so how does that prove women are naturally bad at the subject? surely its more likely to prove that many women who would be good at it dont get involved for some reason.
I'm with you on there being a wider problem of society funnelling people ionto gender stereotypes though, but lets face it its easier to change the attitudes of some computer professionals then the entire of society
So the reason less women enter the field of IT is because less women enter the field of IT. Well damn. Give that man tenure.
Yes the conditions are the same for everyone, but those conditions are designed for men, and so while they're the same for everyone obviously men (and normally single men without kids) will get the most from them and women (and to some extent men with kids) will find them very hard to work under and so, unless they are far more commited then their male collegues will leave to find something that doesn't make it quite so hard to live their lives.
There are many more women in nursing (not so sure about teaching but I dont live in the US) but how does that make things right in the IT industry?
Ah I see the evil liberals have been literally chaining these poor women to computers in an attempt to force them to do things that their poor little brains just aren't capable of, and now good ol' george dubya has released them from their bondage and allowed them to doing things they really are good at like raising children and a little light dusting.
.
Seriously, in the real world sure the vast majority of women aren't interested in computers, just like the vast majority of men aren't (and good on them) but should those who are interested (including my girlfriend seeing as you ask) shouldn't be driven out of the industry because people like you make sweeping generalisations and stereotype 50% of the worlds population (thats more than 3 BILLION people by the way) by saying "computers just aren't there [sic] thing" for many its not, for some it certainly is
It's only liberals who think that women should be forced to be programmers even if they don't want to be.
Where I come from liberals are people who support the Liberal party and forcing women to become programmers doesn't rank high on their manifesto comitments.
By the way I like how you started at "most women" and used that to make claims about all women, hoping I would agree with the first part and then wouldn't notice the inflation, scattered in a few personnal insults in an attempt to get me mad enough not to think straight, tried to make out that I'd insulted you first so you couldn't be blamed for bringing the converstaion down, and then put words into my mouth to paint my views as obviously stupid, and then accuse me of forcing women to do things they don't want to to make me look like I'm opressing them by saying that some men are bigots. Its a good debating technique to use when you have no real arguement to use.
Well have a read of some of the comments about women here (or anywhere else on slashdot) and tell me that you dont think there is at least a large minority of sexist swine here. No its not a scientific study but if you got these sorts of attitudes in a debate about any other industry you'd be shocked and appalled, here its just business as usual.
Of course there are other factors in play here, working conditions that expect you to put in long hours and be on call, a lack of other women to provide support and role models, probably as many other reasons as there are women leaving the industry, but the juvenial attitudes of many men dont help.
No before you respond criticising my post how about you come up with some alternative reasons.
Stuff social perception, but in technology terms yeah you're right but the waves of inovation and cutting-edgeness (hmm a new word for the day!) have been driven by people who dont understand the old rules and so are free to reinvent them. Now think of all those women who have left or will never enter the industry and consider that to re-ignite that innovation it would only take a few people with a new outlook on IT and computers, and new ideas of how to solve problems, or even new problems to solve and tell how driving women out of the industry helps.
I don't think it is a concern if women are leaving IT because they can get better jobs elsewhere or because there are less IT jobs or something.
What is a concern is if they're leaving because they're being driven out by sexist attitudes or working conditions (not deliberately sexist perhaps, but more likely designed by single men, for single men and with a "you have to change your life, because we're not changing our conditions" attitude). If this is the case then a) that shows a deep ingrained prejedice that belongs in the 50's rather then a 21st century cutting edge industry, and b) we're losing lots of very talented people who can bring whole new ideas and ways of looking at problems into the industry because they were born with a particular set of physical characteristics rather then for any worthwhile reason.
Diversity is good, not just in the operating system and software market but also in the people that produce that software.
Judging by many of the replys so far probably the bigest thing driving women out of IT is the attitude of male IT workers who seem to think that we're still living in the 50's, for an industry thats meant to be the cutting edge of the future, many peoples attitudes seem to be about as old fashioned as they come.
The market in Britain fo a technical computing magazine is so small to be almost below the profitability level due to a much smaller population and no real native computer industry, so to survive they need have a wider market appeal then just geeks and techies and that inevitably means less technical articles and more games reviews
I think its begining to change with Linux and a generation that has grown up around computers, but many publications that can live happily in the US market would be bust within months here.
780 Euros
Consider the Crusades, the slaughter of the Cathars, the wars that were sparked by the Reformation, Cromwell, the witch hunts, Northern Ireland, and the list goes on and on
Cromwell was responsible for allowing Jews into Britain (they'd been banned since the middle ages) and for the instituting official toleration of christian sects, allowing freedom of conscience to all. I dont think he really had anything against Catholics particularly as long as they knew their place, i.e. not holding any sort of power, not trying to force their beliefs on anyone else (aka preach), or take up arms against parliment or him, its just when they did he was uncompromising about it and lots of people tended to die.
Also Northern Ireland is a political dispute rather then religious, for a number of reasons the two sides tend to break out along religous lines, but there are protestant republicans and catholic loyalists, its just uncommon.
I cant argue with the crusades etc though.
Its worth noting that although here in England we have an official state religion (the Church Of England logically enough) I was taught about Islam, Judeaism, Sikhism etc in school. The emphasis was on the similarities in principal and differences in custom rather then any "ours is better then yours" dogma.
But he has, he's waved a firearm around in a public place. So actually both guys are commiting crimes that have the potential to injure or kill somebody.
If the person with the firearm uses it and hits an innocent bystander should he be let off because he was just protecting himself? He is carrying out an action that has potentially disasterous consequences for others who have nothing to do with the crime why should he be allowed to put others at risk in this way?
I dont understand Americans obbsession with the freedom to use items designed urely to injure and kill in anyway they please without restriction.
If Apple stashed away $4billion in the 80's and still have it today why did they need arch-rivals Microsoft to bail them out with $200million in 1997?
Just a thought.
bil
Ahh, decentralise control over the IT standards used, sit back and watch the chaos that ensues when some hospitals stick to Office97, some upgrade to officeXP, others turn to OpenOffice, some get a good deal from Apple and move to Appleworks, some cut a deal with Sun for StarOffice and a few get Lotus or Wordperfect etc and suddenly nobody in Britains largest employer can talk to anyone else.
Honestly if a major corporation (say British Telecom, 100,000+ employees) decided to centrally plan their IT standards at director level would you even blink? No, in fact you'd post about how insane they were if they wanted decentralise it to local office managers, but because its a public service suddenly it should all be decentralised and decided by the local sys-admins? Just because its central government dosn't automatically mean its bad,
bil
Oh you've so missed the point...
Its an anarchist slogan, the point being that if you really want signficant change you cant get it by voting in a new leader because change is never in the leaderships interests (the current system is the one that gave them power after all) so if voting had any chance of really changing anything they'd abolish it. You cant change things by voting once every four (or five or whatever years) and you certainly cant change things by sitting on your arse and trusting a leader to do it for you. A representative democracy is just a dictatorship that changes its appearence now and then, the power stays within the same small clique. If you really want change you have to get out and make it happen, take the power back and bring about the anarchist free (non)state. Revolution Now.
Its amazing how many people belive choosing between the Democrats and Republicans (or Labour and Tories or whoever) offer a real choice rather then just the same old same old. No mater who you vote for its always pretty much the same government who gets in.
bil
Be realistic, demand the impossible...
Libertaian-socialism is the anarchist strand of socialist theory, try Bakunin and Kropotkin (and others) for references.
They tend to advocate the willing co-operation of people, communal ownership of property and the means of production for the good of all, without coercion (direct democracy being the normal means of acheiving this)
Try also looking up the Spanish Civil war (Esp. the CNT and FAI anarcho-socialist trade unionist forces) and the forces commanded by Nestor Makhno during the Russian Civil War. There are also a fair number of other smaller scale examples but I'll leave finding these as an exercise for the reader.
I have been trolled...
bil
P.S. do I get bonus marks for describing myself as as a democractic-libertarian-socialism republican without being inconsistant?
Check out the newscientist interview with Mr. Alibek here.
with my favourite quote:-
"One of the biggest problems is that we don't know whether or not we have had such attacks. We are just ignorant. We cannot distinguish between naturally occurring epidemics and ones we create. I'm not saying that foot and mouth disease is [the result of a biological attack] because I don't know. But if you see something this size in the 21st century, it is getting very suspicious. To imagine that we have had nothing for the past few decades and then suddenly such a huge, uncontrollable epidemic of foot and mouth disease--it raises many questions."
If you've ever thought "it could never happen here" then the fact that one of the worlds experts isn't so sure must certainly be something to think about...
bil
>That is an odd quote, since communists have historically been a major contributor to "why they go hungry" (Ukraine under Stalin, tens of millions starving in China under Mao, Ethiopia famine engineered by USSR "land reform").
I could go into the details of why Stalinism!= communism, or detail how many people are killed each year by global capitalism, but I cant be bothered...
The quote isn't mine to rewrite, but if you prefer change the word communist for any other insult you wish, the meaning remains. Basically good acts are saintly as long as you dont start to question the power of the elite ruling class, because then equally good acts will be portrayed as evil using whatever sort of FUD will be most effective.
bil
>So you are admitting that even in the UK the workers are forced to pay political funds. They are forced to support certain political causes just because others have voted for it. Why not instead let each worker choose?
Actually I'm sure that when I was a member of a union (before I went back to uni) I had the choice wether to pay into the political fund or not, I think the cost to me was the same either way but I could choose wether some of that money was syphoned off to the political fund, or wether it all went to union activities. I have a feeling that this choice is a legal requirement on the unions, but INAL so might be wrong
bil