So if I get hit by a worm and have to spend X amount of hours fixing the problem instead of completing my normal duties that isn't lost productivity? The people who have to sit and twiddle their thumbs while the system is being restored haven't seen a loss? Having to spend time verifying restored data instead of processing new data isn't a loss?
As for your murders analogy. Felons don't get to pursue any career out there they may want after they get out of prison.
How is this guy a "promising" programmer? If you look here I don't see a lot that we would be "ruining." Some quotes:
"Similar to the MSBlaster RPC DCOM worm that struck in August of last year, "Sasser" uses a public exploit for the LSA vulnerability in order to obtain a SYSTEM-level command shell on its victims."
"It does not appear that the worm has any function other than propagation (and crashing vulnerable machines as an unintentional side-effect)." emphasis mine
"This is a classic technique used by malware to run malicious executable when Windows starts."
Explain to me again why I have to preserve his career as a programmer? I won't even go into the ethics issue or the PR issue a company will have hiring the guy. How does writing the Sasser worm make this guy promising?
Ok, I'll stop fooling and try to give a serious answer. One that I can think of immediately is the licensing if that's important to you (Hey, for some people it is.) Two, if you need to have a *nix on some platform other than x86 or SPARC. Three, (possibly, I haven't personally compared) driver support especially on the x86 platform.
That's what I can think of off the top of my head.
Can't answer that one. Can you go out, do some research, and then come back to me on that? Now we'll need that answer by Monday so you'll have to come in on Saturday. Oh, and we lost a couple of "BSD is dying" ACs so we'll probably need you to work on this Sunday too. That'd be great.
It's about whether using a nuclear weapon is ever a sane thing to use, if not a war crime.
It took years afterwards to fully understand the impact of what happened when you dropped an atomic bomb. Before the first test detonation there were theories that one bomb would wipe out the atmosphere.
Is victory worth the price of mass murder?
Would it have not been mass murder if we had just bombed all of Japan with conventional bombs? Does the fact that one bomb used U-232 outweigh the use of a million bombs that used TNT? Are you really naive enough to think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have been passed by in a conventional scenerio? How about Kyoto? etc. etc.
I think the fact that no nuclear weapons have been used since the end of world war 2 perhaps answers that question.
No. More like it proves the adage "Hindsight is 20/20."
No doubt dropping chemical/biological weapons on Japan and wiping out large swathes of population centres would have won the second world war also, but would such a thing be morally justifiable? (Which can be equally applied to nuclear weapons)
WWI taught us the horrors of biological and chemical agents along with the pitfalls in their use since they were indiscriminate weapons when it came to friend v foe. Remember hindsight? 20/20? Why mess with them when we just could have used conventional bombs that we were churning out on well established production lines?
Why not? We already know that the firebombing of Tokyo killed as many civilians as Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Do you think we would have killed less over the months it would have taken to win the war with conventional weapons? Do you think we would have only hit military targets if we didn't have the Bomb? Have you considered how the equation changes for the reconstruction of Japan? How many more people die as basic serivces are being rebuilt across an entire country whose industrial capacity has been eradicated during the course of conventional bombing? What about allocating medical personnel and other relief aid?
Would we have reconstructed Japan? There's a scary thought. If we had paid the higher cost and lost a million more men to take Japan conventionally how would that have affected our efforts? I'd like to say it wouldn't but I look back at Germany after WWI and I'm not sure. If we failed to pick up the burden would countries like China and Korea have picked up the slack? What price would Japan have had to pay under those circumstances?
I'm not saying that what happened wasn't terrible. I wish it hadn't happened. But I will say that I can see alternate scenerios to the ending of WWII in which Japan suffers orders of magnitudes more than if we hadn't dropped the bomb. Taken in that light, I think the GP's statement can be said to have merit.
As Theo stated over at @misc, how many local root exploits have been found in linux over the past year? 20? (Note, I'm paraphrasing what's on the mailing list and haven't had time to check up on the accuracy of 20 exploits.)
OpenBSD a failure? Gotta be kidding me. And the only reason that linux gets to brag about driver support is due to the community selling out and settling for closed source crap. Hey, want to port linux to a closed architechure? Just sign this NDA write a bunch of binary loaders that nobody else can use and viola! Look linux supports even more hardware.
I like linux a lot and use it. But I'm not about to delude myself that somewhere along the way some things got whored out in the name of "pragmatism." There is a great deal of actual irony (yes, real Bender at the opera quoting out of the dictionary level irony) that the project based on the GPL, the holy grail of OSS licenses, doesn't hammer on vendors to open specs on their hardware as throughly as the project whose code anybody can "steal."
Everytime the OpenBSD community gets a vendor to open their specs or relicense their firmware for free distribution everybody benefits. All the BSDs, Linux, and a ton of projects I don't remember or am unaware of currently. Everytime the Linux community settles for the scraps a vendor is willing to toss off just so something works the only benefit goes to linux or a subset of distributions. The situation is especially depressing considering the disparity in the size of the communities involved.
IIRC, one feature that has benefits outside the default install is ProPolice. This has caught numerous bugs in the ports collection. Probably a better place to check out than my faulty memory is www.openbsd.org/papers/
Firewalls just impede end-to-end connectivity. There's a lot of cool stuff you can't do through a firewall (i.e. protocols that bury IP addressing info in layers four through seven.) A reasonably secure network and a reasonably secure OS running reasonably secure software can do these protocols quite nicely without a firewall.
You are confusing a firewall with NAT. Cease and desist:P I also think that essentially advocating a default permit policy on reasonably secure anything is a mistake but that's just me.
Because you know that even with the possibility of seeing some Brittney Spears clone nekkid it isn't going to remove the thousand of overweight/sagging/liver spotted images of the unwashed masses from your brain.
I do see a great market for eye transplants in the future....
On whatever gateway/firewall providing connectivity to the Internet:
Anything not in the address range provided by ISP going to range provided by ISP drop.
Nothing has changed and I've removed the level of obfuscation introduced through NAT. Wrap this in some cute GUI and viola! Done. If mom and dad can handle IPv4 they can handle IPv6.
IBM pretty much disputes SCO's claim in their response to SCO's Amended Complaint. (links are to PDFs) See paragraph number 2. SCO says they own "all right, title and interest in and to UNIX and UnixWare operating source code, software and sublicensing agreements, together with copyrights, additional licensing rights in and to UNIX and UnixWare, and claims against all parties breaching such agreements." IBM denies those claims as they relate to IBM and says they don't have enough information on whether those claims are true for anyone else. That should be enough for the issue to be disputed regardless of whether IBM has taken the issue to task yet.
Slashdot Mirror
HTH,
Flower
As for your murders analogy. Felons don't get to pursue any career out there they may want after they get out of prison.
Explain to me again why I have to preserve his career as a programmer? I won't even go into the ethics issue or the PR issue a company will have hiring the guy. How does writing the Sasser worm make this guy promising?
That's what I can think of off the top of my head.
Thaaaanks.
It took years afterwards to fully understand the impact of what happened when you dropped an atomic bomb. Before the first test detonation there were theories that one bomb would wipe out the atmosphere.
Is victory worth the price of mass murder?
Would it have not been mass murder if we had just bombed all of Japan with conventional bombs? Does the fact that one bomb used U-232 outweigh the use of a million bombs that used TNT? Are you really naive enough to think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have been passed by in a conventional scenerio? How about Kyoto? etc. etc.
I think the fact that no nuclear weapons have been used since the end of world war 2 perhaps answers that question.
No. More like it proves the adage "Hindsight is 20/20."
No doubt dropping chemical/biological weapons on Japan and wiping out large swathes of population centres would have won the second world war also, but would such a thing be morally justifiable? (Which can be equally applied to nuclear weapons)
WWI taught us the horrors of biological and chemical agents along with the pitfalls in their use since they were indiscriminate weapons when it came to friend v foe. Remember hindsight? 20/20? Why mess with them when we just could have used conventional bombs that we were churning out on well established production lines?
Would we have reconstructed Japan? There's a scary thought. If we had paid the higher cost and lost a million more men to take Japan conventionally how would that have affected our efforts? I'd like to say it wouldn't but I look back at Germany after WWI and I'm not sure. If we failed to pick up the burden would countries like China and Korea have picked up the slack? What price would Japan have had to pay under those circumstances?
I'm not saying that what happened wasn't terrible. I wish it hadn't happened. But I will say that I can see alternate scenerios to the ending of WWII in which Japan suffers orders of magnitudes more than if we hadn't dropped the bomb. Taken in that light, I think the GP's statement can be said to have merit.
It really does depend on what you are measuring.
I like linux a lot and use it. But I'm not about to delude myself that somewhere along the way some things got whored out in the name of "pragmatism." There is a great deal of actual irony (yes, real Bender at the opera quoting out of the dictionary level irony) that the project based on the GPL, the holy grail of OSS licenses, doesn't hammer on vendors to open specs on their hardware as throughly as the project whose code anybody can "steal."
Everytime the OpenBSD community gets a vendor to open their specs or relicense their firmware for free distribution everybody benefits. All the BSDs, Linux, and a ton of projects I don't remember or am unaware of currently. Everytime the Linux community settles for the scraps a vendor is willing to toss off just so something works the only benefit goes to linux or a subset of distributions. The situation is especially depressing considering the disparity in the size of the communities involved.
IIRC, one feature that has benefits outside the default install is ProPolice. This has caught numerous bugs in the ports collection. Probably a better place to check out than my faulty memory is www.openbsd.org/papers/
I'm sorry. Life without sensor rings must be pretty lonely. Consume mass quantities and it'll be all right.
It's freedom fries you stinking godless hippie terrorist.
No. Sweet Zombie Tesla!
Wait. What do you mean they won't take Kim Chee? Dammit, they know we're good for it!
About the same amount of time it will take a /. moderator to read TFA before wasting points on the parent post.
At least a decade away unless my reading comprehension skills have failed me....
"Beige and boxy with neon trim. Sweeeeet."
You are confusing a firewall with NAT. Cease and desist
I do see a great market for eye transplants in the future....
Nothing has changed and I've removed the level of obfuscation introduced through NAT. Wrap this in some cute GUI and viola! Done. If mom and dad can handle IPv4 they can handle IPv6.
I'm sorry you'll have to excuse vettemph. He took too much LDS in the 60s.
IBM pretty much disputes SCO's claim in their response to SCO's Amended Complaint. (links are to PDFs) See paragraph number 2. SCO says they own "all right, title and interest in and to UNIX and UnixWare operating source code, software and sublicensing agreements, together with copyrights, additional licensing rights in and to UNIX and UnixWare, and claims against all parties breaching such agreements." IBM denies those claims as they relate to IBM and says they don't have enough information on whether those claims are true for anyone else. That should be enough for the issue to be disputed regardless of whether IBM has taken the issue to task yet.
yeah but which one is the spin bot? Dueling wedges is like watching baseball or golf.
Damn.
You get forced to sing "the sun will come out tomorrow!" every night for a few years straight and see if you don't hack up a kid or two.