In his post theo himself says that the original linux dev took to asking for the code for a whole YEAR and he was told NO all that year.
Now my question is this: why the fuck dont all FOSS communities reach a dual licensing compromise: any code I take from you will be re-released under YOUR license (AND MINE) to perpetuity. This way, we can all share with each other and grab from/to linux and BSD and EVERYTHING would be shareable.
But no, you have an asshole like theo thretening legal action against a FSF emaned body? Against fellow linux devs? Theyve taken their share of code from GNU and Linux, so damn, reach a fucking compromise and start sharing without any kind of barrier.
Hell, my friend, to you and to all the newbs claiming that stallman's work is not as huge as linus's: practically all your userland is stallman's, FSF or GNU software. Whats the kernel with a damned cp command, whats unix/linux without tar, where would we be without a free gzip, how on earth would we compile linux without gcc, how would the earth turn and the tide move, without emacs (or vi, depending on who you ask).
No, my friend, its not "whats the last stallman wrote". Wrong question because its easyly rebated: "whats the last linus wrote?" and he, himself will answer that he doesnt code much this days, he merely integrates contributed code.
Both of them make it possible for me to write this on my gnu/linux (im not a name zealot, but in this context the emphasys on GNU is important) box and im eternally gratefull to them both (I make a living doing what I love: promoting free software).
The fact that linus's objectives are different from stallman's is not news, its not even "bad" or "contrary" to the promotion of FOSS, its only natural that paint a line because they represent two different functions in the FOSS community. Linus mantains a kernel, Stallman is dedicated to look at the way the market is going and to deffend Free Software from any kind of risk the market may pose to it.
Linus needs no followers, he needs kernel devs. Stallman, on the other hand, represents an idelogy and is talking to free software developers: do not hold off your software at GPL2, move all the way to three if you still trust my instincts.
I, for one, trust his instincts. He has seldom been wrong when decoding the market's messages with regards to "where its gonna move" and thus, support his stance: if we still want freedom by the end of the decade, we need to make sure the market doesnt gobble up the FOSS ecosystem without giving anything back. We shouldnt make it easy for software, music or movie companies to enforce a bussiness model that the internet made obsolete. You, me, everyone will end up paying for shit we really dont need.
Do you want to be the true OWNER of your boxes, and decide what you can and cannot play there? Support GPL3. If you dont, youre paving the way to Novell and Microsoft shit where they want to monetize the linux market with shit we have never ever needed, so that you have the fucking privilege to ONLY play microsoft provided content in ONE linux distro.
That sucks, its dividing the market and making FOSS an underdog to microsoft. We are close to winning, but we wont if we start being slackish and we let companies impose fucked up bussiness models that do not combine well with the freedoms to use, distribute and modify software.
Just want to make the precision that the FSF requires GNU software (and only GNU software) to be signed to THEM (not Stallman) so that they can pursue, with a strong legal status (owner of copyright), violations of the GPL. The FSF unvariably returns a free-for-all license to the developer and, as such, the original developer can do whatever they want with their software, including making it proprietary or a proprietary branch thereoff.
Okay. I have customers with 80 workstations all over RHEL+oo.o and they work FINE. We are based in Mexico and, I dont know, perhaps I am mistaken here, i would think New Zealand would have at least as good an IT market as the one we have here.
My point is that if my clients can find a good Open Source company to train them and make FOSS work for them, why couldnt this guy?
Well... for one that works in this market, its pretty obvious: Microsoft is playing as hard a game as it possibly can when it comes to Linux and Open Source. They realize they will loose terrain to it and are going to make us fight for it very, very hard.
This includes them doing a LOT of spending. Hell... i think "they" (this includes MS's senior partners personally) are even aquiring stock of some of their clients to use as microsoft posterboys. Or well, perhaps thats a little far fetched, let me rephrase: some companies partly owned by some of MS's senior partners have a strong commitment to Microsoft technology, and these companies are not small and are very vocal Microsoft advocates (that sounds a little better, doesnt it?).
So, you will hear this stories a lot as microsoft strives to make their FUD machine work. In the end, resistance will be futile as the market will not bow to microsoft just because and will necesarily, unstopably, move to the cheaper alternative which is, without a doubt, FOSS.
That the U.S. used to be a liberal democracy. Hell, some people told me that they invented the first workable one. When large and powerfull groups get to set most policy regardless of the negative aspects of it to the general population, then I wonder if it can still be called a democracy.
At least not in spirit, I'd say. Because if the basic block of democracy is the representatives of the people that are elected by vote, and if not the majority, but a minority ends setting policy, then the setting of policy is not a democratic process.
If we consider that the "groups" Im talking about here, are a very easyly identifiable elite, then the correct name would be a plutocracy. Perhaps not in the whole extent of the term, but at least in small instances of important decitions that will affect not only americans, but the rest of the world as well.
So countries like mine, that are not really a democracy -weve never been one and we are not one now- but that have searched to mimic some of the better proceses of the american liberal democracy will be turned into plutocracies -just like the U.S.- even before we started.
That and of course, the fact that the world is comming finally to an end, makes my day. We all head to a dark future and Gibson, Sterling and Stephenson really didnt get gory enough: it will be much worse.
Am I the only one that sees linus's hand in this? I would think that it all came down to him pressing for this act of forgiveness just to try and stop distro balcanization (youd have three smaller, stupid distros -suse, linspire and xandros- only able to use GPL2 and the rest on GPL3), which wouldve played well for microsoft.
I say the FSF has not lost its edge and focus as to what the real intentions of Redmond are.
I, for one, welcome our new patent blasting, music playing and freedom catering GPL-III overlawrds.
Man. The guy in implementing a whole stack of a very big technology. Big as in really a whole lot of code that has the potential to bring windows apps to linux and viceversa.
Some of you seem to be asking for the closing of Unix and our Unix-Like things without a single thought to what others are doing. No, we do not have the answer to everything. No, Linux does not do everything we need. No, Java is not the only way we should have to implement enterprise-ready client-server applications.
We should have more. We should be able to bring expert C# developers and have them feel comfortable on Linux. We should be able to access everything that anyone puts on the web. Yes, Macromedia and Microsoft do stupid, evil things like leverage their market grips and lawyer departments to feed us this or that other tech that could be better implemented.
But we work arround that. We worked arround DVD encryption. We worked arround HD-DVD encription and we WILL work arround BlueRay encription. We worked arround proprietary audio formats and we worked arround proprietary video formats and yet, you guys complain that miguel wants to work arround yet another tech (and in this case its a quite well architected one) that will lock us out of content.
Why didnt you rant against the mplayer guys that allow you to see your pron. Ah, i see, silverlight is not pr0n worthy. Didnt we used to perceive the same kind of risk (patents and such) for the revenging that the samba team needed to do? Why didnt you rant then. Ah, I see, you probably did.
I dont like the ms-novell deal more than any of you, but i dont think miguel has in mind having a closed source version of what he is proposing to do. If the other distros do not feel comfortable including it because of that deal, then they wont (like RH, that currently has no offer for mono). But the software itself is opensource and you will be able to download it and access your content.
Isnt that what this is all about, really? That we can work arround the stupid walls MS and others try to put on us?
Youve all turned into a bunch of whyning preppie girls. Hell, it wont even be you implementing it, if you dont want to. I say FSCK microsoft and let them come if they wanna sue all of us when we use our mono-based silverlight thingie on our ubuntu or fedora.
They wont come against novell, but I dont hink novell would stop miguel from doing this in a good (as in MPL or GPL) free software license --and this I say because a non-FOSS implementation would force me to the other side... that is, with the wyining preppie girls.
Here is my position on zimbra: best thing since the discovery of toast.
A trully powerfull set of groupware and people-networking ideas, opensource backed, soap-enabled, ajax focused and with a focus on outlook/exchange killing like youve never seen (it does work with outlook in the network versiion, but the web version is so compelling that is, imnsho, way better than plain outlook itself).
It has a real cool wiki module that allows easy, http based file shareing and they are working on a chat solution.
I pledge allegiance to zimbra. Thats all i can say.
Will I get sued too? Will Sony? I mean, they sold me the recorder in the first place.... hey, with my dual deck TR i can even mix my own music (imagine that)
If such is the case we are really toast. A submarine-familymember-killer-spook is what we got here. I dont think there is any other way to get them but to pressure them into submission by a big PR move by the community NOW.
All enterprises making money off linux should say NOW if they support or not this kind of thing and Linus himself should make a statement (how about a special Novell cant use this clause for future releases of oo.o and the linux kernel? Yes, i dont care if debian rejects it or puts the friggin kernel in non-free).
Of an old fashioned US intervention. Man, its been so many years since sucha clasic jerkwatter intervention by the CIA to protect american interests, in this case, Microsoft.
Its Nicaragua or Chile all over again. Boy that Thai government was shurely against microsoft wasnt it?
More soap thrown into it.... wow, aint we heading for the best times of humanity. The time when we will have no planet to live on anymore. Cool.
Hey, wait a couple of years and, with the discharges we put into the oceans all youll need is an air pump beneath the ship and the bubles will come up by themselves.
A private bathtub! NAH! We will turn the oceans into a huge bubble bath. Great.
Or a self exploding device... sheesh, bush and the republicans have fucked the american spirit so much that its very hard to recognize it in the current politcal landscape.
What? Irak aint enough to win the elections, lets fuck the mexicans a bit more (and we know they can take it!) and put THEM as the enemy for this year.
Fuck that. I hope Iran has a nuclear bomb by now so that these petty republicans get their enemy, win the elections again, and stop fucking with us for no other reason than convincing americans that there actually is some kind of "danger", close to their home, for which the republican party is the protection.
Mark my words. In the long run, it will not work at all.
What is going to happen is that, as the mexican economy plumets due to, very much in part, Washington's hunger in the 80's, more and more exodus is going to happen. The cams will be broken, tunnels will be constructed, walls will be climbed or even destroyed.
What needs to be done is continue with NAFTA and make it work like Spain or Italy in the E.U. Its politically incorrect because of the cultural xenophobia so very much interred in the american subcouncious, but its the one and only true solution. No matter though.
In 12 years, there will be more mexican blood in the U.S. than "classic" WASP. In that moment, reality will impose itself, and you guys will realize that we are more alike than different.
Our countries will have no option but to unite. You guys will be competing with a european behemoth full of cheap smart labor, that youll have to bring out from somewhere if you want to keep the relative hegemony of the world. That is, Mexico doesnt actually break down first (because this inmigration control "strategy" actually works) and you have to rescue it anyway, favoring an economic integration.
Im in it for the long run... it will be fun to see WASP's screaming and fighting and angrily beating and killing anything brown looking. But, in the end, as Ive said, reality will put them in order.
Really, the harder it is to implement succesfully one of those, the better. So, hurray MS, go ahead and make yet another poor PR move and save us all on the other side of the wall from having to suffer this kind of crap.
Slashdot Mirror
In his post theo himself says that the original linux dev took to asking for the code for a whole YEAR and he was told NO all that year.
Now my question is this: why the fuck dont all FOSS communities reach a dual licensing compromise: any code I take from you will be re-released under YOUR license (AND MINE) to perpetuity. This way, we can all share with each other and grab from/to linux and BSD and EVERYTHING would be shareable.
But no, you have an asshole like theo thretening legal action against a FSF emaned body? Against fellow linux devs? Theyve taken their share of code from GNU and Linux, so damn, reach a fucking compromise and start sharing without any kind of barrier.
Hell, my friend, to you and to all the newbs claiming that stallman's work is not as huge as linus's: practically all your userland is stallman's, FSF or GNU software. Whats the kernel with a damned cp command, whats unix/linux without tar, where would we be without a free gzip, how on earth would we compile linux without gcc, how would the earth turn and the tide move, without emacs (or vi, depending on who you ask).
No, my friend, its not "whats the last stallman wrote". Wrong question because its easyly rebated: "whats the last linus wrote?" and he, himself will answer that he doesnt code much this days, he merely integrates contributed code.
Both of them make it possible for me to write this on my gnu/linux (im not a name zealot, but in this context the emphasys on GNU is important) box and im eternally gratefull to them both (I make a living doing what I love: promoting free software).
The fact that linus's objectives are different from stallman's is not news, its not even "bad" or "contrary" to the promotion of FOSS, its only natural that paint a line because they represent two different functions in the FOSS community. Linus mantains a kernel, Stallman is dedicated to look at the way the market is going and to deffend Free Software from any kind of risk the market may pose to it.
Linus needs no followers, he needs kernel devs. Stallman, on the other hand, represents an idelogy and is talking to free software developers: do not hold off your software at GPL2, move all the way to three if you still trust my instincts.
I, for one, trust his instincts. He has seldom been wrong when decoding the market's messages with regards to "where its gonna move" and thus, support his stance: if we still want freedom by the end of the decade, we need to make sure the market doesnt gobble up the FOSS ecosystem without giving anything back. We shouldnt make it easy for software, music or movie companies to enforce a bussiness model that the internet made obsolete. You, me, everyone will end up paying for shit we really dont need.
Do you want to be the true OWNER of your boxes, and decide what you can and cannot play there? Support GPL3. If you dont, youre paving the way to Novell and Microsoft shit where they want to monetize the linux market with shit we have never ever needed, so that you have the fucking privilege to ONLY play microsoft provided content in ONE linux distro.
That sucks, its dividing the market and making FOSS an underdog to microsoft. We are close to winning, but we wont if we start being slackish and we let companies impose fucked up bussiness models that do not combine well with the freedoms to use, distribute and modify software.
Just want to make the precision that the FSF requires GNU software (and only GNU software) to be signed to THEM (not Stallman) so that they can pursue, with a strong legal status (owner of copyright), violations of the GPL. The FSF unvariably returns a free-for-all license to the developer and, as such, the original developer can do whatever they want with their software, including making it proprietary or a proprietary branch thereoff.
I mean. I couldve told them that for free.
Okay. I have customers with 80 workstations all over RHEL+oo.o and they work FINE. We are based in Mexico and, I dont know, perhaps I am mistaken here, i would think New Zealand would have at least as good an IT market as the one we have here.
My point is that if my clients can find a good Open Source company to train them and make FOSS work for them, why couldnt this guy?
Well... for one that works in this market, its pretty obvious: Microsoft is playing as hard a game as it possibly can when it comes to Linux and Open Source. They realize they will loose terrain to it and are going to make us fight for it very, very hard.
This includes them doing a LOT of spending. Hell... i think "they" (this includes MS's senior partners personally) are even aquiring stock of some of their clients to use as microsoft posterboys. Or well, perhaps thats a little far fetched, let me rephrase: some companies partly owned by some of MS's senior partners have a strong commitment to Microsoft technology, and these companies are not small and are very vocal Microsoft advocates (that sounds a little better, doesnt it?).
So, you will hear this stories a lot as microsoft strives to make their FUD machine work. In the end, resistance will be futile as the market will not bow to microsoft just because and will necesarily, unstopably, move to the cheaper alternative which is, without a doubt, FOSS.
That the U.S. used to be a liberal democracy. Hell, some people told me that they invented the first workable one. When large and powerfull groups get to set most policy regardless of the negative aspects of it to the general population, then I wonder if it can still be called a democracy.
At least not in spirit, I'd say. Because if the basic block of democracy is the representatives of the people that are elected by vote, and if not the majority, but a minority ends setting policy, then the setting of policy is not a democratic process.
If we consider that the "groups" Im talking about here, are a very easyly identifiable elite, then the correct name would be a plutocracy. Perhaps not in the whole extent of the term, but at least in small instances of important decitions that will affect not only americans, but the rest of the world as well.
So countries like mine, that are not really a democracy -weve never been one and we are not one now- but that have searched to mimic some of the better proceses of the american liberal democracy will be turned into plutocracies -just like the U.S.- even before we started.
That and of course, the fact that the world is comming finally to an end, makes my day. We all head to a dark future and Gibson, Sterling and Stephenson really didnt get gory enough: it will be much worse.
Am I the only one that sees linus's hand in this? I would think that it all came down to him pressing for this act of forgiveness just to try and stop distro balcanization (youd have three smaller, stupid distros -suse, linspire and xandros- only able to use GPL2 and the rest on GPL3), which wouldve played well for microsoft.
I say the FSF has not lost its edge and focus as to what the real intentions of Redmond are.
I, for one, welcome our new patent blasting, music playing and freedom catering GPL-III overlawrds.
Man. The guy in implementing a whole stack of a very big technology. Big as in really a whole lot of code that has the potential to bring windows apps to linux and viceversa.
Some of you seem to be asking for the closing of Unix and our Unix-Like things without a single thought to what others are doing. No, we do not have the answer to everything. No, Linux does not do everything we need. No, Java is not the only way we should have to implement enterprise-ready client-server applications.
We should have more. We should be able to bring expert C# developers and have them feel comfortable on Linux. We should be able to access everything that anyone puts on the web. Yes, Macromedia and Microsoft do stupid, evil things like leverage their market grips and lawyer departments to feed us this or that other tech that could be better implemented.
But we work arround that. We worked arround DVD encryption. We worked arround HD-DVD encription and we WILL work arround BlueRay encription. We worked arround proprietary audio formats and we worked arround proprietary video formats and yet, you guys complain that miguel wants to work arround yet another tech (and in this case its a quite well architected one) that will lock us out of content.
Why didnt you rant against the mplayer guys that allow you to see your pron. Ah, i see, silverlight is not pr0n worthy. Didnt we used to perceive the same kind of risk (patents and such) for the revenging that the samba team needed to do? Why didnt you rant then. Ah, I see, you probably did.
I dont like the ms-novell deal more than any of you, but i dont think miguel has in mind having a closed source version of what he is proposing to do. If the other distros do not feel comfortable including it because of that deal, then they wont (like RH, that currently has no offer for mono). But the software itself is opensource and you will be able to download it and access your content.
Isnt that what this is all about, really? That we can work arround the stupid walls MS and others try to put on us?
Youve all turned into a bunch of whyning preppie girls. Hell, it wont even be you implementing it, if you dont want to. I say FSCK microsoft and let them come if they wanna sue all of us when we use our mono-based silverlight thingie on our ubuntu or fedora.
They wont come against novell, but I dont hink novell would stop miguel from doing this in a good (as in MPL or GPL) free software license --and this I say because a non-FOSS implementation would force me to the other side... that is, with the wyining preppie girls.
Here is my position on zimbra: best thing since the discovery of toast.
A trully powerfull set of groupware and people-networking ideas, opensource backed, soap-enabled, ajax focused and with a focus on outlook/exchange killing like youve never seen (it does work with outlook in the network versiion, but the web version is so compelling that is, imnsho, way better than plain outlook itself).
It has a real cool wiki module that allows easy, http based file shareing and they are working on a chat solution.
I pledge allegiance to zimbra. Thats all i can say.
I have my old 80's dual deck tape recorder....
Will I get sued too? Will Sony? I mean, they sold me the recorder in the first place.... hey, with my dual deck TR i can even mix my own music (imagine that)
Why Irak didnt work... :)
Really, isnt it enjoyable that MS has sought the NSA help for security since w2k to no avail?
Bad, BAD PR for the NSA.
I dont see the point.
We all know...
They walk amongst us.
If such is the case we are really toast. A submarine-familymember-killer-spook is what we got here. I dont think there is any other way to get them but to pressure them into submission by a big PR move by the community NOW.
All enterprises making money off linux should say NOW if they support or not this kind of thing and Linus himself should make a statement (how about a special Novell cant use this clause for future releases of oo.o and the linux kernel? Yes, i dont care if debian rejects it or puts the friggin kernel in non-free).
Of an old fashioned US intervention. Man, its been so many years since sucha clasic jerkwatter intervention by the CIA to protect american interests, in this case, Microsoft.
Its Nicaragua or Chile all over again. Boy that Thai government was shurely against microsoft wasnt it?
More soap thrown into it.... wow, aint we heading for the best times of humanity. The time when we will have no planet to live on anymore. Cool.
Hey, wait a couple of years and, with the discharges we put into the oceans all youll need is an air pump beneath the ship and the bubles will come up by themselves.
A private bathtub! NAH! We will turn the oceans into a huge bubble bath. Great.
Fucking A
I mean, damn. How in hell do you figure that?
I had the best possible user experience with firefox since the 2.0 release than ever before with a mozilla product.
I farking love the browser.
Keep your greasy paws off my fox.
Id cut my hands first!
On the other hand, there is always computer games using a keyboard/mouse or other less tension-generating device.
Do Not Quit, my friend: Take up WoW (youll see what you are missing), and trade your arthritis for diabetes.
Okay... it will also not stop the pirates who, btw, nowdays download movies, not play or rip them on a DVD.
Anyhow... if youre using windows you deserve being treated like the bitch you are.
Double click on it punk
Active directory has been elevated to any degree of an interesting piece of infrastructure.
AD is a souped up directory server with stupid lockin code on the clients.
Its all it is and its pretty sucky at that.
Or a self exploding device... sheesh, bush and the republicans have fucked the american spirit so much that its very hard to recognize it in the current politcal landscape.
What? Irak aint enough to win the elections, lets fuck the mexicans a bit more (and we know they can take it!) and put THEM as the enemy for this year.
Fuck that. I hope Iran has a nuclear bomb by now so that these petty republicans get their enemy, win the elections again, and stop fucking with us for no other reason than convincing americans that there actually is some kind of "danger", close to their home, for which the republican party is the protection.
Mark my words. In the long run, it will not work at all.
What is going to happen is that, as the mexican economy plumets due to, very much in part, Washington's hunger in the 80's, more and more exodus is going to happen. The cams will be broken, tunnels will be constructed, walls will be climbed or even destroyed.
What needs to be done is continue with NAFTA and make it work like Spain or Italy in the E.U. Its politically incorrect because of the cultural xenophobia so very much interred in the american subcouncious, but its the one and only true solution. No matter though.
In 12 years, there will be more mexican blood in the U.S. than "classic" WASP. In that moment, reality will impose itself, and you guys will realize that we are more alike than different.
Our countries will have no option but to unite. You guys will be competing with a european behemoth full of cheap smart labor, that youll have to bring out from somewhere if you want to keep the relative hegemony of the world. That is, Mexico doesnt actually break down first (because this inmigration control "strategy" actually works) and you have to rescue it anyway, favoring an economic integration.
Im in it for the long run... it will be fun to see WASP's screaming and fighting and angrily beating and killing anything brown looking. But, in the end, as Ive said, reality will put them in order.
Really, the harder it is to implement succesfully one of those, the better. So, hurray MS, go ahead and make yet another poor PR move and save us all on the other side of the wall from having to suffer this kind of crap.
Will the plugin be free, as in freedom?
Or do we still have to pay due to stupid licenses like outlook plugins?
What windows port?