Okay slashdot geeks: 1) YOU DO NOT OWN THE MOZILLA CODE
2)If mozilla keeps making my very fine browser and make money by doing it, they are welcome to go to have a farking orgy with the original google geeks.
3) Ive delved superficially on mozdevelopment and everyone there is nice, concentrated, a bit bofhish sure, but no more than most GOOD FOSS projects.
4) Google can call the shots all they want, we will be able to fork the browser if something against principle happens.
5)If mofo's CEO wants his half a mill check, and is able to get into mofo about 140 times that, he should VERY WELL DAMNED get his money, no questions asked.
Now stop whyning and start CODING you asthma ladden, tongue in cheek, caffeine poping geeks.
MoFo publishes everything, they have to. Im not sure im worried about what they do with all the cash. Its their cash. What is GOOD is that they are prooving how can opensource software interact with the new advertising-financed platforms like google.
There is a growing market for google-talking apps out ther, not just the browser. Integrating stuff from google to your collaboration infrastructure comes to mind, to your intranet portals... i dunno, a bunch of stuff could be developed for the google "platform".
I think differently from those that look at SAAS as a potential danger to software/data freedom. Sure, theyll be able to offer a great deal of services that will force you to upload data and then you will only be able to do what they expose in their apis, but thats okay, if you dont want it, then dont use it.
The fact that google has been able to mostly provide open apis so that one can work with them opens a wealth of posibilities like the one mozilla is exploiting. How about gnome integrating google stuff as a first option for several things like the remote gmail drive perhaps-- which we do have, just not "on gnome" as it is, and letting google plaster some advertising somewhere in exchange (and youd be able to opt-in for that if you want it, granma could opt-out if SHE wanted. And then some google money could flow into gnome, or kde, or both.
Who at redhat told you such a thing? THat would be very well against their whole corporate philosophy. Yeah, theyd prefer if you didnt tell customers "you dont need to buy another rhel license for this particular thing", but they ship everything under the gpl. They cannot, should not and im sure, would not, stop you from redistributing it.
THere, in the subject, is my whole point. RHEL's sales are pushed by the certified apps it runs. It is used to kick Unix out, not to compete with other linuxes.
I dont think centos hurts redhat at all. Now if oracle wanted to hurt, instead of pursuing their rather measly attempt at a rhel clone, they would support centos.
Go read groklaw. This was not a victory for us. It wasnt utter defeat either, but the court upheld microsoft's right to assert patents and charge for them, thus upholding the very beast that has the U.S. bound to the ground with respect to OSS.
We cant look at their docs, the samba people cant look at their docs (license is gpl incompatible), it is useless for us at all.
The only thing they made them promise is that they wont go after individual developers. Well bu-hu, why would they do that in the first place? Imagine them going after Linus, their theatre would die a short death.
Nay... they're going after redhat, suse and (if they find theyr gonads), perhaps IBM in the end. I think thats the way they think. Us thinking there is a vitctory where there is none, only plays in their favor.
I mean, shoo, you bitch. We dont want your hypocryticall ass here. Or better yet, show us your ubuntu laptop, refuse to write for companies running MS server-side, show us something to believe you.
Greenpeace has a very long story for even TAKING MONEY to attack someone. Id go as far as to say that, for example, they promoted the idea of dolphin killing tuna fishers everywhere else but the US. They were paid off by american tuna fishers who dont kill dolphins NEAR THE STATES, but they happily do so with dolphin from the philipines.
They also promoted the idea that a harbor project for the large (largest in the world, actually) salt mine down under in Baja was a risk to the gray whales, so that the harbor project was stopped. The pier was projected so big, that a damned whale coud pass under it from ANY possition.... SIDEWAYS. That time they were paid by competing Australian salt miners.
I, for one, have never ever believed anything coming out of greanpeace. They are nothing but a rent-a-hoolingan shop.
There IS a standard way for ALL Linuxes to monitor EVERYTHING. Smartd+snmp will do the trick and it works just about the same for them all.
As for the rest, vendors create their measly, unoperable, stupid shitty stuff to supposedly "monitor" things. They are all really pretty badly made, but its "their" way.
That being said, "Linux" as an abstract entity has no room in corpoland, you need to start thinking RHEL or SLES, and there you will see: all RHEL is monitored the same way, all SLES is monitored the same way. If you wanna use the crap monitoring stuff dell, hp and ibm attempt to push down your throat, by all means, do it, but dont come crying to us.
The real problem with the US patent system is that it allows for attempting to patent Software and Bussiness Models.
This is what creates an avalanche of patent applications for the most stupid things on the planet and its a very "unique" system in that almost NOBODY else accepts patent on this issues.
The system would STILL be broken even if you had large brainy, phd endowed Octopuses handling them. Software and BP patents are the biggest most stupid idea ever to touch the U.S. legal system.
I know im preaching to the converted. But doesnt this seem to you, as it does to me, like a blatant and outright liar is somwhere in the deal?
Even entretaining the idea of the existance of a software capable of this, it would sure cost a bit more than 2 million bucks to run the damned thing, let alone develop it.
Finaly, someone found their lost balls (the same wusses that would not fight the decss fight), and is willing to put their might in. Redhat + IBM should be enough to keep the redmond assholes quite at bay while Linux kicks their buts out of a sizeable chunk of the serverspace, at the very least.
Congrats, Microsoft, you came in late for about a FULL DECADE and STILL people buy your crap. No matter how unethical is the fact that your "web" thing never did anything other than crash for no reason, spawn windows when anyone hit the webserver, and eat away all resources; people do bow unto you, take your crap and PAY FOR IT.
I can understand Microsoft very well. What ill never understand is its fanbois.
It's not that I don't like Linux, I just don't want to be associated with its users anymore.
Its when I see comments like this that i know, finally, Linux is on the right track: bye bye, sexless übergeek fanboi and welcome, new Linux users. I dont care if you "dont know what youre doing", I only care that you do it on our OS, that you dont toss us out for another if we can help it.
That is the most one can expect from an OS and Linux has given it all. Linux on the desktop is comming, weather the fuckers like it or not.
Talking about extint dinosaurs, how about that old SCOsaurius DarlMcBridesus that met extinction past week.
They said they where discovered under a pile of fosil excrement dubbed by archeologists as FUDiite.
In the case of the scosaurios, archeologists say, the fudiite has been found to be produced by the same dinosaur, suggesting that they practically drowned in their own crap.
Yeah but (dont you love those?), if the original work is BSD, the BSD camp should get at least the first iteration in their own license. I think its fair even if it sacrifices the GPL spirit a little.
The pitfall is precisely what you point out, no doubt, but if a public arrangement can be made (as in, the next three versions of the derived work in linux will be dual licensed and after that, no more), I think they could reach an agreement that lets both camps take from the other without passing so much flame.
In OUR company, we protect our intelectual property using patents. This is the best way for humanity itself to develop breaking-ground technologies like this one: imagine when you have a checkbox and you want to select it but are to lazy to click on it... yeah, i know, you frown... it has happened to you.
Well not anymore. IBM's wonderfully patented technology will CLICK FOR YOU!
Now isnt that a great breakthrough in human-computer interaction?
Cant the BSD people get together with Linus and his guys and agree to relicense every derived work in the other license?
For example: 1) Linux dev dl's spiffy-superdrivers from openbsd 2) Linux dev ports it and makes changes to it 3) Linux dev branches resulting code with the original license BSD and points the bsd guys there 4) Linux dev submits driver to linus (or whomever) in the GPL license 5) Should work the other way arround (s/Linux/BSD) 6) Even in the future, should anyone from the BSD camp request a particular piece of Linux kernel-world, they should be able to get it under the BSD license IF and ONLY IF, the BSD guys are willing to do the same with THEIR stuff.
Proprietary companies make cross-licensing deals all the time. We should be able to do the same.
Whats illegal about it? Linus owns the trademark, he certaintly can go and tell you to stop using it or else.
I admit its a bit "too much", but it would serve novell-like companies to know that Linus does have that power and that, if that would be the case (how can i know, really), this is not propper behaviour if you wanna sell linux-based code.
Now Im not saying they shouldnt be able to use Linux's code. The license allows for that and then some. All im saying is that I dont find Novell's behaviour to be in the best interest for linux adoption in the long term and so they should be stopped by all means necesarry, this one included.
As for my spelling, I love that argument. Its what you use when youre fresh out of ideas.
This one is a short letter. My expresso awaits for me. Its reallty this simple bro: take away from Novell the right to use the Linux trademark. Just threaten them to do so, theyll start behaving right away.
This are not just my 2 cents, im pretty shure most here will agree to me that this course of action is legal, tough and will get all vendors to play decently.
I say this is a time for bold moves. I say Linus should prohibit Novell from using the Linux trademark. Let them publish their shit on another name.
This move and this touting of how "grand" it was is unacceptable to this community. If Novell isnt willing to compete with other linux's on their own technical grounds (and, might I say, Suse is probably the WORST distro out there), then they shouldnt be able to use Linux as the trademark.
Slashdot Mirror
Okay slashdot geeks:
1) YOU DO NOT OWN THE MOZILLA CODE
2)If mozilla keeps making my very fine browser and make money by doing it, they are welcome to go to have a farking orgy with the original google geeks.
3) Ive delved superficially on mozdevelopment and everyone there is nice, concentrated, a bit bofhish sure, but no more than most GOOD FOSS projects.
4) Google can call the shots all they want, we will be able to fork the browser if something against principle happens.
5)If mofo's CEO wants his half a mill check, and is able to get into mofo about 140 times that, he should VERY WELL DAMNED get his money, no questions asked.
Now stop whyning and start CODING you asthma ladden, tongue in cheek, caffeine poping geeks.
MoFo publishes everything, they have to. Im not sure im worried about what they do with all the cash. Its their cash. What is GOOD is that they are prooving how can opensource software interact with the new advertising-financed platforms like google.
There is a growing market for google-talking apps out ther, not just the browser. Integrating stuff from google to your collaboration infrastructure comes to mind, to your intranet portals... i dunno, a bunch of stuff could be developed for the google "platform".
I think differently from those that look at SAAS as a potential danger to software/data freedom. Sure, theyll be able to offer a great deal of services that will force you to upload data and then you will only be able to do what they expose in their apis, but thats okay, if you dont want it, then dont use it.
The fact that google has been able to mostly provide open apis so that one can work with them opens a wealth of posibilities like the one mozilla is exploiting. How about gnome integrating google stuff as a first option for several things like the remote gmail drive perhaps-- which we do have, just not "on gnome" as it is, and letting google plaster some advertising somewhere in exchange (and youd be able to opt-in for that if you want it, granma could opt-out if SHE wanted. And then some google money could flow into gnome, or kde, or both.
Good, good thing for the future.
Who at redhat told you such a thing? THat would be very well against their whole corporate philosophy. Yeah, theyd prefer if you didnt tell customers "you dont need to buy another rhel license for this particular thing", but they ship everything under the gpl. They cannot, should not and im sure, would not, stop you from redistributing it.
THere, in the subject, is my whole point. RHEL's sales are pushed by the certified apps it runs. It is used to kick Unix out, not to compete with other linuxes.
I dont think centos hurts redhat at all. Now if oracle wanted to hurt, instead of pursuing their rather measly attempt at a rhel clone, they would support centos.
Im not gonna mod you. Could not find a +/- 1 "claims to be pedantic"
Go read groklaw. This was not a victory for us. It wasnt utter defeat either, but the court upheld microsoft's right to assert patents and charge for them, thus upholding the very beast that has the U.S. bound to the ground with respect to OSS.
We cant look at their docs, the samba people cant look at their docs (license is gpl incompatible), it is useless for us at all.
The only thing they made them promise is that they wont go after individual developers. Well bu-hu, why would they do that in the first place? Imagine them going after Linus, their theatre would die a short death.
Nay... they're going after redhat, suse and (if they find theyr gonads), perhaps IBM in the end. I think thats the way they think. Us thinking there is a vitctory where there is none, only plays in their favor.
Its time for a good old style lynchin.
I mean, shoo, you bitch. We dont want your hypocryticall ass here. Or better yet, show us your ubuntu laptop, refuse to write for companies running MS server-side, show us something to believe you.
Someone was bound to find their lost neurons and actually use them. Kudos to the judges.
Greenpeace has a very long story for even TAKING MONEY to attack someone. Id go as far as to say that, for example, they promoted the idea of dolphin killing tuna fishers everywhere else but the US. They were paid off by american tuna fishers who dont kill dolphins NEAR THE STATES, but they happily do so with dolphin from the philipines.
They also promoted the idea that a harbor project for the large (largest in the world, actually) salt mine down under in Baja was a risk to the gray whales, so that the harbor project was stopped. The pier was projected so big, that a damned whale coud pass under it from ANY possition.... SIDEWAYS. That time they were paid by competing Australian salt miners.
I, for one, have never ever believed anything coming out of greanpeace. They are nothing but a rent-a-hoolingan shop.
Sigh...
Wrong on ALL accounts.
There IS a standard way for ALL Linuxes to monitor EVERYTHING. Smartd+snmp will do the trick and it works just about the same for them all.
As for the rest, vendors create their measly, unoperable, stupid shitty stuff to supposedly "monitor" things. They are all really pretty badly made, but its "their" way.
That being said, "Linux" as an abstract entity has no room in corpoland, you need to start thinking RHEL or SLES, and there you will see: all RHEL is monitored the same way, all SLES is monitored the same way. If you wanna use the crap monitoring stuff dell, hp and ibm attempt to push down your throat, by all means, do it, but dont come crying to us.
The real problem with the US patent system is that it allows for attempting to patent Software and Bussiness Models.
This is what creates an avalanche of patent applications for the most stupid things on the planet and its a very "unique" system in that almost NOBODY else accepts patent on this issues.
The system would STILL be broken even if you had large brainy, phd endowed Octopuses handling them. Software and BP patents are the biggest most stupid idea ever to touch the U.S. legal system.
I know im preaching to the converted. But doesnt this seem to you, as it does to me, like a blatant and outright liar is somwhere in the deal?
Even entretaining the idea of the existance of a software capable of this, it would sure cost a bit more than 2 million bucks to run the damned thing, let alone develop it.
Destination link is DOWN....
Man... Microsoft really has them pinned down dont it?
Finaly, someone found their lost balls (the same wusses that would not fight the decss fight), and is willing to put their might in. Redhat + IBM should be enough to keep the redmond assholes quite at bay while Linux kicks their buts out of a sizeable chunk of the serverspace, at the very least.
Congrats, Microsoft, you came in late for about a FULL DECADE and STILL people buy your crap. No matter how unethical is the fact that your "web" thing never did anything other than crash for no reason, spawn windows when anyone hit the webserver, and eat away all resources; people do bow unto you, take your crap and PAY FOR IT.
I can understand Microsoft very well. What ill never understand is its fanbois.
Its when I see comments like this that i know, finally, Linux is on the right track: bye bye, sexless übergeek fanboi and welcome, new Linux users. I dont care if you "dont know what youre doing", I only care that you do it on our OS, that you dont toss us out for another if we can help it.It's not that I don't like Linux, I just don't want to be associated with its users anymore.
That is the most one can expect from an OS and Linux has given it all. Linux on the desktop is comming, weather the fuckers like it or not.
Talking about extint dinosaurs, how about that old SCOsaurius DarlMcBridesus that met extinction past week.
They said they where discovered under a pile of fosil excrement dubbed by archeologists as FUDiite.
In the case of the scosaurios, archeologists say, the fudiite has been found to be produced by the same dinosaur, suggesting that they practically drowned in their own crap.
How about "Microsoft's piece-of-crap, FUD-mongering software license"
Yeah but (dont you love those?), if the original work is BSD, the BSD camp should get at least the first iteration in their own license. I think its fair even if it sacrifices the GPL spirit a little.
The pitfall is precisely what you point out, no doubt, but if a public arrangement can be made (as in, the next three versions of the derived work in linux will be dual licensed and after that, no more), I think they could reach an agreement that lets both camps take from the other without passing so much flame.
In OUR company, we protect our intelectual property using patents. This is the best way for humanity itself to develop breaking-ground technologies like this one: imagine when you have a checkbox and you want to select it but are to lazy to click on it... yeah, i know, you frown... it has happened to you.
Well not anymore. IBM's wonderfully patented technology will CLICK FOR YOU!
Now isnt that a great breakthrough in human-computer interaction?
Cant the BSD people get together with Linus and his guys and agree to relicense every derived work in the other license?
For example:
1) Linux dev dl's spiffy-superdrivers from openbsd
2) Linux dev ports it and makes changes to it
3) Linux dev branches resulting code with the original license BSD and points the bsd guys there
4) Linux dev submits driver to linus (or whomever) in the GPL license
5) Should work the other way arround (s/Linux/BSD)
6) Even in the future, should anyone from the BSD camp request a particular piece of Linux kernel-world, they should be able to get it under the BSD license IF and ONLY IF, the BSD guys are willing to do the same with THEIR stuff.
Proprietary companies make cross-licensing deals all the time. We should be able to do the same.
"Their" level is what makes microsoft all it is. They certaintly will be making no effort to climb up to our level unless they are forced to.
I advocate forcing them to.
Whats illegal about it? Linus owns the trademark, he certaintly can go and tell you to stop using it or else.
I admit its a bit "too much", but it would serve novell-like companies to know that Linus does have that power and that, if that would be the case (how can i know, really), this is not propper behaviour if you wanna sell linux-based code.
Now Im not saying they shouldnt be able to use Linux's code. The license allows for that and then some. All im saying is that I dont find Novell's behaviour to be in the best interest for linux adoption in the long term and so they should be stopped by all means necesarry, this one included.
As for my spelling, I love that argument. Its what you use when youre fresh out of ideas.
Hi Linus,
This one is a short letter. My expresso awaits for me. Its reallty this simple bro: take away from Novell the right to use the Linux trademark. Just threaten them to do so, theyll start behaving right away.
This are not just my 2 cents, im pretty shure most here will agree to me that this course of action is legal, tough and will get all vendors to play decently.
I say this is a time for bold moves. I say Linus should prohibit Novell from using the Linux trademark. Let them publish their shit on another name.
This move and this touting of how "grand" it was is unacceptable to this community. If Novell isnt willing to compete with other linux's on their own technical grounds (and, might I say, Suse is probably the WORST distro out there), then they shouldnt be able to use Linux as the trademark.
Linus, you should sink this fuckers.