"Funny you should mention that---I just checked over at MSN, pottered about randomly for a few minutes, and saw nothing like the commercials being discussed here. "
I didn't realize it when I wrote my last post, but I read somewhere that these advertisements are in wma format. I couldn't see them with my linux box if I tried.
All three of you are wrong.. and so is tne first person who replies to this;)
Have we completely forgotten about technological measures? It shouldn't be difficult for those of us with open source browsers to find tools to block these things.
"Does it have vi? Screw you, Emacs users. Light, powerful, efficient and easy to use, vi is clearly the editor that intelligent programmers use. Written in a much more powerful programming language than the obviously dying Emacs, vi is the editor of editors. I mean, c'mon, imagine Emacs running under CYGWIN on a Win box! That's like running three kludges at one time!"
You forgot to say 'not to start a flame war, but..'
"First off, why is such a worthless OS front page news on/.? SCO Unix is mediocre, and nobody would even think of using it. The only reason a SCO Unix review is on/. is because of the lawsuit hubbub."
Yeah.. this is really getting in the way of more important stories.. like lego case mods, glo fish and the segway.
The problem is that in it's current incarnation, copyright law isn't as useful as it should be. It's supposed to encourage innovation by granting a temporary monopoly on distribution, but since the length of copyright has been extended too far it actually discourages innovation. The corporations who own copyrights have no incentive to innovate when they can simply remarket what they already have. There is also a huge difference between physical and intellectual 'legal fictions', because of the limited nature of physical things.. there are only so many plots of land, pounds of potatoes, and widgets, but ideas can be distributed indefinately without ever diminishing the source. In this case it is clear that all people should benefit from them just as we all benefit from our seemingly endless supply of air. That is why the original intent of copyright law was to encourage innovation to enrich the public domain. Contrary to what Darl McBride and his insane lawyers may think, it is not about financial gain. That is merely the intent of the law makers who have subverted the constitution by passing laws such as the DMCA. That is fine if we wish to create a class of people with ownership of ideas held up by the proletarian masses below them. If our intent is, as it should be, to produce the greatest works possible to benefit us all, maybe the GPL should be codified into law.
Who are we in the US to knock the Malaysian authorities. What have we done to stop the free flow of Windows? It's easier to get a copy of Windows here than it is to get a rock of good crack cocaine.
"More to the point, as SCO themselves have said, they will be going after big companies known to have large Linux deployments. In other words, Fortune 500 customers of RedHat and SuSE. They said themselves they won't be suing private users. "
They also said they wouldn't be going after end users at all... they also said that they wanted Linux on intel to scale well.. they also said that Microsoft wasn't funding them..
Do you honestly trust these people? Follow the contradictory press clippings.
Quote: Because of the choices. Linux - bad, pending litigation SCO UNIX - bad, company may fold Solaris - expensive AIX - expensive HP-UX - expensive Windows - expensive, bugs, security nightmare [Free|Open|Net]BSD - free, legally clear due to BSD/USL settlement
Possibly, the best alternative to Linux is *BSD. The problem is that BSD doesn't get nearly as much support from comercial vendors (Oracle, etc.). If this support is necessary for any particular installation the choices are to wait or to use Solaris/HP-UX. end quote.
Just one problem... SCO just announced they are going to go after BSD users, probably in the first half of next year. No one is safe until SCO is dead.--- period
I've never seen an article generate so many pro-windows comments on/.. I've been a Linux user(Red Hat 9.0 and Fedora(testing) right now) for a while and I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.
It seems unfair that an OS developed by a company with billions to spare and a fifteen year head start is the standard by which a completely free OS is judged, but that is the way of things. The funny thing is that I don't use Linux because I hate Microsoft and I don't use it because it's free. I use Linux because I love it. I love the desktop environment I use. I love command line tools. Forget the fact that if I had bought Windows plus office I wouldn't have a computer in my room because I couldn't afford it.
" I don't think they'll get to the GPL issue. It will be like the old ATT case, where the court determined that the plaintiff did not have a valid copyright interest in the code in question, and the case ended there."
They'll have to get to the GPL issue because IBM has added counterclaims for copyright infringement based on the GPL.
I'm glad that I didn't have to respond to the 't' word. The fact is that I agree with you that hacking in the sense of breaking into computers is and definately should be a crime. What I disagree with is the need to increase the penalties. Right now the penalties are quite harsh and they do take into account how much damage was done by intrusions. The problem is as you pointed out that the penalties aren't deterring the crime, but I don't think the reason is that they aren't harsh enough. The reason the penalties don't matter is that the hackers don't think they'll ever be caught and many times they are right. The penalties are harsh, now it's time to actually catch the people committing the crimes. If you can't do that, then drawing and quartering the one guy you find won't mean a thing. Hackers will just shrug it off and not worry any more about it then they worry about going outside because some guy got struck by lightning.
"What is the answer? Coddling them? Blaming their parents?"
As I said in my post I feel that the answer is in making these crimes more difficult to commit(security) and not hanging hackers from the highest tree.
"Ignorance of the consequences is no excuse."
No, it's not. Nor is a consequence you know nothing about a deterrent. It is pointless to make the penalties for minor crimes harsh if it doesn't deter the activity at all.
"Because the chances are low."
True. That needs to change. In fact, it would be more beneficial for society to advocate security than it would be to incarcerate a 17 year old for ten years and then release him into society as a hardened criminal.
"I'm all for turning the criminals over to the people they've wronged, chaining them down or to a post, and letting those people give them some real counseling with an assortment of 'tools'."
Begin sarcasm:
This would be great. We should also apply this rule to all minor offenses such as harassment, purse snatching, and speeding. Eventually we can all be tortured to death. End sarcasm.
"They've blown their chance."
Many times these people are not even adults. Destroying their lives because you had to come in on a weekend is ridiculous over reaction. It sounds to me as though you need to check your logs better or something. Maybe you should be sniffing your network instead of posting to slashdot... then you might not get owned so often.
Why do we need harsher penalties for 'hackers'? It's because there doesn't seem to be an end to computer crime. Unfortunately, this is not the answer. I wouldn't hesitate to say that most computer criminals aren't even aware of the penalties until they get caught. They are concerned with only one thing: the chances of getting caught. The answer should be to take some of the money spent incarcerating people and make security a priority. Offer some tools and education. All this is going to do is put more troubled kids in jail for longer. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I was tried under current law for everything I did when I was a teen, I'd still be in jail right now. Give them a chance to become productive citizens.
" In a German article on SCO/Cannopy, I recently learned that Darl McBride is a "devout mormon". Now, I have never seen this mentioned anywhere in the many articles on SCO/McBride, even when they were specifically talking about McBride's personality."
I wonder if this means that 10% of his pump and dump go to the Mormon church. You know, real Mormons tithe.
Slashdot Mirror
"First, we're up to 591 now."
When did Iraqis cease to count as people?
"I think it should be manditory for people to know how things work before they can sue someone."
Does this mean no one will be able to sue me if I write destructive code in perl?
"The future linux desktop"
Shouldn't there be a K there instead of a foot?
"Script Kiddies is as much a Culture as 1337 5p34k is a Language"
1337 5p34k aint no language,dig? Jive be a language.
Surely there was a larger file on SCO's website they could have linked to. The site is still up!
"For example, in my profession, the law, where there are thousand of members, only a handful of us actually go to court"
Where the hell were you in the SCO threads?
This is funny!
"Funny you should mention that---I just checked over at MSN, pottered about randomly for a few minutes, and saw nothing like the commercials being discussed here. "
I didn't realize it when I wrote my last post, but I read somewhere that these advertisements are in wma format. I couldn't see them with my linux box if I tried.
All three of you are wrong.. and so is tne first person who replies to this ;)
Have we completely forgotten about technological measures? It shouldn't be difficult for those of us with open source browsers to find tools to block these things.
"Does it have vi? Screw you, Emacs users. Light, powerful, efficient and easy to use, vi is clearly the editor that intelligent programmers use. Written in a much more powerful programming language than the obviously dying Emacs, vi is the editor of editors. I mean, c'mon, imagine Emacs running under CYGWIN on a Win box! That's like running three kludges at one time!"
You forgot to say 'not to start a flame war, but..'
Well, you must have done something because I went camping not too long ago and no one cared.
"First off, why is such a worthless OS front page news on /.? SCO Unix is mediocre, and nobody would even think of using it. The only reason a SCO Unix review is on /. is because of the lawsuit hubbub."
Yeah.. this is really getting in the way of more important stories.. like lego case mods, glo fish and the segway.
"-- but a useful one."
The problem is that in it's current incarnation, copyright law isn't as useful as it should be. It's supposed to encourage innovation by granting a temporary monopoly on distribution, but since the length of copyright has been extended too far it actually discourages innovation. The corporations who own copyrights have no incentive to innovate when they can simply remarket what they already have. There is also a huge difference between physical and intellectual 'legal fictions', because of the limited nature of physical things.. there are only so many plots of land, pounds of potatoes, and widgets, but ideas can be distributed indefinately without ever diminishing the source. In this case it is clear that all people should benefit from them just as we all benefit from our seemingly endless supply of air. That is why the original intent of copyright law was to encourage innovation to enrich the public domain. Contrary to what Darl McBride and his insane lawyers may think, it is not about financial gain. That is merely the intent of the law makers who have subverted the constitution by passing laws such as the DMCA. That is fine if we wish to create a class of people with ownership of ideas held up by the proletarian masses below them. If our intent is, as it should be, to produce the greatest works possible to benefit us all, maybe the GPL should be codified into law.
Who are we in the US to knock the Malaysian authorities. What have we done to stop the free flow of Windows? It's easier to get a copy of Windows here than it is to get a rock of good crack cocaine.
"More to the point, as SCO themselves have said, they will be going after big companies known to have large Linux deployments. In other words, Fortune 500 customers of RedHat and SuSE. They said themselves they won't be suing private users. "
They also said they wouldn't be going after end users at all... they also said that they wanted Linux on intel to scale well.. they also said that Microsoft wasn't funding them..
Do you honestly trust these people? Follow the contradictory press clippings.
Quote:
Because of the choices.
Linux - bad, pending litigation
SCO UNIX - bad, company may fold
Solaris - expensive
AIX - expensive
HP-UX - expensive
Windows - expensive, bugs, security nightmare
[Free|Open|Net]BSD - free, legally clear due to BSD/USL settlement
Possibly, the best alternative to Linux is *BSD. The problem is that BSD doesn't get nearly as much support from comercial vendors (Oracle, etc.). If this support is necessary for any particular installation the choices are to wait or to use Solaris/HP-UX.
end quote.
Just one problem... SCO just announced they are going to go after BSD users, probably in the first half of next year. No one is safe until SCO is dead.--- period
Are they sure it's not BSD code?
I can't wait to see Darl McBride in one of those "if you've had a personal injury" commercials.
"go nowhere because it isn't backed by a major corporation starting with an M."
Motorola is coming out with a linux based phone. There you go... someone tell this Lyons guy that we have major support starting with M!
I've never seen an article generate so many pro-windows comments on /.. I've been a Linux user(Red Hat 9.0 and Fedora(testing) right now) for a while and I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.
It seems unfair that an OS developed by a company with billions to spare and a fifteen year head start is the standard by which a completely free OS is judged, but that is the way of things. The funny thing is that I don't use Linux because I hate Microsoft and I don't use it because it's free. I use Linux because I love it. I love the desktop environment I use. I love command line tools. Forget the fact that if I had bought Windows plus office I wouldn't have a computer in my room because I couldn't afford it.
" I don't think they'll get to the GPL issue. It will be like the old ATT case, where the court determined that the plaintiff did not have a valid copyright interest in the code in question, and the case ended there."
They'll have to get to the GPL issue because IBM has added counterclaims for copyright infringement based on the GPL.
I'm glad that I didn't have to respond to the 't' word. The fact is that I agree with you that hacking in the sense of breaking into computers is and definately should be a crime. What I disagree with is the need to increase the penalties. Right now the penalties are quite harsh and they do take into account how much damage was done by intrusions. The problem is as you pointed out that the penalties aren't deterring the crime, but I don't think the reason is that they aren't harsh enough. The reason the penalties don't matter is that the hackers don't think they'll ever be caught and many times they are right. The penalties are harsh, now it's time to actually catch the people committing the crimes. If you can't do that, then drawing and quartering the one guy you find won't mean a thing. Hackers will just shrug it off and not worry any more about it then they worry about going outside because some guy got struck by lightning.
"What is the answer? Coddling them? Blaming their parents?"
As I said in my post I feel that the answer is in making these crimes more difficult to commit(security) and not hanging hackers from the highest tree.
"Ignorance of the consequences is no excuse."
No, it's not. Nor is a consequence you know nothing about a deterrent. It is pointless to make the penalties for minor crimes harsh if it doesn't deter the activity at all.
"Because the chances are low."
True. That needs to change. In fact, it would be more beneficial for society to advocate security than it would be to incarcerate a 17 year old for ten years and then release him into society as a hardened criminal.
"I'm all for turning the criminals over to the people they've wronged, chaining them down or to a post, and letting those people give them some real counseling with an assortment of 'tools'."
Begin sarcasm:
This would be great. We should also apply this rule to all minor offenses such as harassment, purse snatching, and speeding. Eventually we can all be tortured to death.
End sarcasm.
"They've blown their chance."
Many times these people are not even adults. Destroying their lives because you had to come in on a weekend is ridiculous over reaction. It sounds to me as though you need to check your logs better or something. Maybe you should be sniffing your network instead of posting to slashdot... then you might not get owned so often.
Why do we need harsher penalties for 'hackers'? It's because there doesn't seem to be an end to computer crime. Unfortunately, this is not the answer. I wouldn't hesitate to say that most computer criminals aren't even aware of the penalties until they get caught. They are concerned with only one thing: the chances of getting caught. The answer should be to take some of the money spent incarcerating people and make security a priority. Offer some tools and education. All this is going to do is put more troubled kids in jail for longer. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I was tried under current law for everything I did when I was a teen, I'd still be in jail right now. Give them a chance to become productive citizens.
" In a German article on SCO/Cannopy, I recently learned that Darl McBride is a "devout mormon". Now, I have never seen this mentioned anywhere in the many articles on SCO/McBride, even when they were specifically talking about McBride's personality."
I wonder if this means that 10% of his pump and dump go to the Mormon church. You know, real Mormons tithe.