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SCO UnixWare 7.1.3 Review
JigSaw writes "Despite news about SCO being all about the lawsuit, they still sell OS products and they have a presence in the server market. UnixWare is one of these OS products. Tony Bourke reviewed its latest version, 7.1.3, and even includes benchmarks among other tests. Tony concludes that 'the lack of commercial applications and user community, the difficulty with open source applications, the SCO litigation, and the high price are all marks against UnixWare. There are just very few reasons to adopt UnixWare as your platform, and plenty of reasons to adopt (or migrate to) other platforms.'"
It would be interesting to see the degree to which UnixWare copes with recent hardware: HyperThreading P4's, nForce2 chipsets, IEEE 1394, SATA RAID, etc etc etc.
If you thought
ONE BILLION DOLLARS MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH?
Disclaimer: Prices may vary. Check your local retailer. Senseless litigation available in most locations. All rights reserved or acquired in court against your will.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
I thought the author did fairly well at remaining objective and testing the product without allowing company ethics cloud his review
I predict that somebody'll get modded up for explaining why SCO's distro sucks.
"Derp de derp."
Why would anyone choose it over Linux of FreeBSD is over me.
I think their UNIX business will get spun off after the lawsuit business clears up and the company goes bust. The Unixware product will no longer be marketable under the "SCO" name, since the brand will be indelibly tarnished in the IT world as part of a hostile, litigious organization that tried to extort money from companies, big and small, for work that they had no rights to, and for what essentially amounts to a massive pump-n-dump scheme.
Daryl,
.... tick tock ..
scorch the earth and your tree may not grow
30 days till you show us what kind of proof you really have
Does anyone know of any organizations that actually use SCO Unix?
I heard SCO were going to find out who the makers of unixware are, and sue them for copyright and patent infrindgements. Then refuse to release documents to themselves, quote incorrect code segments and send bills to themselves.
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
SCO OS is based on the same code as SUN OS.
As slashdot has reported a few days ago, Sun is giving x86 versions of Solaris away for free. Why bother with SCO when you can get Solaris with a much bigger set of applcations for free?
There is no god
Attn: Tony Bourke
Read your review. Hope you enjoy court and jailtime, because I'm about to sue you into oblivion. Next time you'll know whose side you should be on. Best of luck to you and your lawyers (or lack thereof)!
Your friend,
Darl
Of all the bad PR that they've generated for themselves, a bad product may hurt them the most. Now, they open themselves up to the counter-attack that they're an untalented software company looking for a quick buck, with the product being proof of their lack of talent. It's an oversimplification, sure, but one they pretty richly deserve.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
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Wait, this might be the first "$X is dying" troll that's actually true.
I know quite a few hospitals and clinics use it. And other businesses for their accounting software.
75% of all statistics are made up!
Unixware proves that sometimes, (an increasingly small number of) people buy things based on price alone. There is no reason to use such an expensive, restrictive OS when the makers of that OS have to use ideas from their biggest competitor to improve it, when that competitor is a free (in all meanings) OS.
Let's not get into the specific advantages, because nobody has that large an attention span.
Esoteric reference.
A bleep? What the fuck is that?
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=sco.com
10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
No, you're think of Ray Bourke.
btw, they were copyrighted 1995 or so-ish. old, but even so, doesnt that grant a license? i belive it does.
Customers wishing to deploy UnixWare on their servers located in our server room are asked to take their business elsewhere!
Boeing uses it for their aerodynamics testing, a lot of engineering and their flight simulation.
I saw the login screen through the store manager's door -- Fry's Food and Drug runs SCO.
First off, why is such a worthless OS front page news on /.? SCO Unix is mediocre, and nobody would even think of using it. The only reason a SCO Unix review is on /. is because of the lawsuit hubbub.
I was poking through the SCO web site some time ago, to find good stuff for my SCO Report website and I discover SCObiz. Check it out. For $5,000, they'll basically give you a template site, with mediocre ecommerce ability. The datasheet is here (pdf), while the quick facts (pdf) is here. A Flash tour is here.
The Flash tour is pretty snappy, but you can tell, it's nothing more than a glorified template driven website builder for newbies, similar to what Tripod and Geocities provide with their drag and drop stuff. It's probably even worse.
Remember to visit SCO Report, where I do my part to annoy SCO with the truth, and SCO Countdown, where there are clocks counting down to SCO's demise...
UnixWare isn't a Linux distro.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
They should change the name to UnixWhere.
Win32 on a Unix machine?
It didn't tarnish the MS name, now did it? (I know, it's just a joke, mod me down though. They spend way more time getting sued that suing anyways).
What in the hell are you talking about? "Linux barely supports most of that stuff" Linux fully supports *ALL* of that stuff. Has for a long time now. Keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about.
75% of all statistics are made up!
Well, it was intresting read, but some of those tiny fonts are kind of hard on these tired eyes. It wasn't entirely humorless - "...there are several advantages to using vxfs, primarily speed and fscking issues." The big issue to me was...uh, oh, now I get it.
What?
It's now down to less than 21 days, actually.
Noticed someone's comment yesterday pointing to this site: scocountdown.com. Note that the deadline you're referring to is not the one at the top of the page.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
There's no market for this thing. If you've got technical issues that keep you from using Linux or BSD, you're probably also looking for a fancy processor, such as SPARC, not a "commodity processor". And running on x86 is the only serious advantage Unixware has over other "real" Unixes. So Unixware is semi-abandonware, like WordPerfect or 1-2-3. There will always be people who insist on such products, but not enough to sustain a serious busines. UnixWare's only remaining commercial value is as a basis for litigation.
I used to work for a credit union a couple of years ago that used SCO as a workstation to access removable optical disks used to archive data.
That system was very clunky, and it wasn't just the specialized application that was to blame; SCO was just very hard to work with in regards to drivers, system configuration files, new hardware, etc. Linux/FreeBSD would have been far superior in that situation.
I have had issues with SCO UnixWare over the years. Particularly, autoconf and automake scripts that worked for every other platform ranging from Linux, *BSD, Solaris to even Windows just failed to work under SCO's UNIX. And I used to want to try and fix these problems, but now SCO has fscked themselves so they can go to hell for all I care.
This is the Tony Bourke from GlobalCenter/SiteSmith that wrote the O'Reilly SLB book... were you with ISI also, Tony? I miss the old GC crew.
Hear that Darl? That's the sound of inevitability.
A fuck? What the bleep is that?
Billions and billions served.
Show me an OS whose proverbial Casbah isn't rocked by FreeBSD. Anyone who would buy a SCO product at this point seriously needs to seek help. There's no reason for anyone to do that to themselves, no matter how bad they feel inside.
I bought a copy of SCO UnixWare in the pre Darl days. Back in that day, you could get free 'educational' licenses for nonprofit uses. Too bad they don't offer free 'linux' licenses for schools & colleges. Yeah I guess, they 'changed there minds'. UnixWare 7 wasn't a bad OS, but I believe the review was on target when he said the technology it's based on is past its prime. And you gotta love how you need a license for everything from SMP to critical security updates.
~UltraSkuzzi
This comment is liscensed by SCO.
How appropriate.
What?
I hear a rather large woman singing an aria...
You can't spell fiasco without SCO
SCO is claiming they have fullfilled their legal obligations ahead of the 30 day deadline by delivering 1 million sheets of paper to IBM. http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5114689.html
... and in the DRM, bind them.
cliche's are dying!
No, you're thinking of the Icelandic diva and prolific shell coder, Bjork.
Roving Web-Teleoperated Robot
Oh, I thought he was talking about the Sweedish Chef... (bork, bork, bork)
The probability that someone is watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.
Slowly but surely
so this is what Saddam's trial will be like...
wonder if you could put debian on them...
Seriously, who gives a bleep about SCO OS???
I have to complete the joke cycle: "Ray Bourque," who is of course Robert's illegitimate son.
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
Installed UnixWare.
Common shells not installed automatically.
Tar has issues.
CDE barebones.
Software selection bad.
Has non GCC C compiler.
Does not have C++ compiler.
Cannot port many applications.
LKP pretty.
Did not really test security.
Don't bother asking for community help.
UnixWare fricken' expensive.
No plans for 64-bit.
In conclusion, UnixWare is dying.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
No, you're thinking of the most prolific ABBA cover band and shell coders, Bjorn Again.
The article was well-written and, I felt, fairly objective. My thanks to Mr. Bourke for keeping a level head when many are screaming bloody blue murder. For those who just want the meat, here it is:
These factors precluded the reviewer from really thinking of a single situation in which he could recommend UnixWare 7.1.3 as an installable option.
SCO.com is claiming Darl was listed as one of the Top 25 execs in CRN magazine. I have a subscription to CRN and he dosen't appear anywhere in the Top 25. Can anybody back me up?
... and in the DRM, bind them.
It's interesting how the prices compare:
Enterprise Linux doesn't seem to offer an advantage unless you're using four or more processors. Solaris (and, Java Desktop, I assume) seems to be a better deal for regular workstations or servers... I imagine that only high-end servers and "mainframes" seem to benefit from the price. No wonder Red Hat doesn't see a future for desktop Linux... they're prices are too expensive!
It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
- Jerome Klapka Jerome
Judge orders SCO to show Linux infringement - CNET news.com
In other legal action, IBM on Wednesday subpoenaed Sun Microsystems; which recently expanded its Unix license with SCO Group and has a warrant to purchase shares in the company; Schwartz Communications; a public relations firm that represents SCO; and defense contractor Northrop Grumman. IBM spokeswoman Guarino couldn't immediately describe the purpose of the subpoenas.
I wonder why IBM subpoenaed Northrop Grumman? SCO says Grumman didn't buy any shares (although I don't believe that farther than I can kick it)...
It is official; Netcraft confirms: SCO is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered SCO UnixWare community when IDC confirmed that SCO market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that SCO UnixWare has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. SCO is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict SCO's future. The hand writing is on the wall: SCO faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for SCO UnixWare because SCO is dying. Things are looking very bad for SCO. As many of us are already aware, SCO UnixWare continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
SCO has lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time UnixWare developers L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: SCO is dying.
All major surveys show that UnixWare has steadily declined in market share. SCO is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If SCO is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. SCO continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, SCO is dead.
Fact: SCO is dying
Netcraft has SCO listed just before the SCO Icon server.
LKP is basicly system call emulation like that which is available in FreeBSD. This has NOTHING to do with pure user-space number crunching required of crypto computations! This kind of test would only show the most eggregrarious scheduling or interrupt handler errors in providing the LKP functionality. This wouldn't (shouldn't?) even show up any compiler differences between UnixWare's cc and GCC since OpenSSL is heavily assembly optimzed on x86.
These numbers arn't even compared to running under a real Linux kernel, which would be the most logical course of action given the reviewer's incomplete understanding.
But regardless, with comments like the following, it becomes painfully obvious the reviewer knows little about this:
If anything, benchmarking system calls should have been done. Something along the lines of these tests.
The reviewer makes his bias very plain with passages such as:
This combined with the lack of objective and useful benchmarks makes this article little more than a piece of cheerleading propoganda.
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
deebodahooo deebordahee bork! bork! bork!
I wouldn't!
Fortunately for the Open Source community, the leaders from IBM, EFF, and the like aren't resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Just because SCO Unix stinks doesn't mean they don't have the right to sue, if some contract has been violated.
The correct argument here is -- they have shown no conclusive proof of contract violation on IBM's part. It's time for them to "put up or shut up."
"But always she's the spectre of uncertainty I first endured, then faded, then embraced..."
And that was a very long time ago. It eventually morphed into SCO's other Unix offering which is only considered good enough to run cash registers.
as opposed to EFnet?
/. non-personality, then never mind.
I mean, if you're trying to have a serious discussion of simonikers' collective work. If you're just making some lame, half-assed and poorly thought-out "troll" about a
SCO software (OpenServer and UnixWare) is used mainly in vertical applications.
./ There is a lot of time/money to get the solution operation/stable. It will take alot to get it tested/supported on RHEL.
There are two companies that I know of that sell to a vertical market: the building materials industry.
Each company had two platforms: AIX and SCO. At first the SCO option was OpenServer, but then switched to UnixWare (mainly due to hype from SCO that NEVER materialzed... OpenServer and UnixWare were going to MERGE... but never happened)
Anyway, both companies are looking at AIX and RedHat Enterprise as their two platforms. Until they can test/train on RHEL, they are still selling Unixware. I even had a rep from both companies RECOMMEND Unixware now and will switch the company within 6 months to RedHat. Un-frickin-believable!
Anyway, get off the high-horse
SCO is used. It is still being sold. It will get replaced. But, the timeline is a little longer.
Like it or not... but, that's the case.
That made it the first "official" UNIX for Intel (since it came from A.T.&T.)
When I was a boy, back during the days of Linux Kernel 1.0, we emulated SCO to run commercial applications. Now, SCO emulates *us* to run commercial apps. Total world domination, anyone?
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Gotta love it.
So yes, lots of people still use SCO... in fact, odds are your family doctor does.
NCR was a cash register company as well. Who
remembers them now? They were a union busting
monster in the 1960's and 70's; a hire 'em
fire 'em conglomerate that ate companies on one
end and spit out all the high insurance 'risks'
on the other. That being all people over 40
and most women. They finally got what they
deserved. Somebody bought them out and
liquidated them.
Isn't the LKP rumored to have a lot of GPL software in it?
Hmmm, if the LKP works so well, couldn't it be possible they ripped off code from the Linux kernel at some point?? Is anyone verifying this?
retail box.
According to www.ncr.com, they are still around and still selling cash registers (err, "POS Operator Interfaces") and ATMs (err, "Financial Self-Service TouchPoints").
At least he didn't say, "fscking speed issues." Or "speed fscking issues," which sounds as if someone's trying to raise blisters.
And the brethren went away edified.
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I'm guessing that Red Hat Enterprise Linux supports more peripherals than Solaris for x86 does, and the IT department can recoup the extra $200 or so by not having to buy different hardware just to make your computer compatible with the OS.
A large clothing retail chain (now out of business) used SCO for POS as well. (the whole time I worked there I lobbyied for Linux!)
In Soviet Russia, the bleep fucks you!
I've used sco unixware before.
and I can back this guy, it does suck. not out of bias.. it just lacks a lot of things, and has a very slow boot.
I installed slack on one of the computer repair machines at school (which had unixware on it) and ran another machine with unixware on it and had them boot side by side...
slackware won. and it was on the slower machine.
it's old, and maybe this is what all the crap is about. sco wants linux since they know they cant create anything better than 30 year old code that they never created. (in other words...)
so, they figure they can buy linux out, but what's this? linux cant be bought out. but wait, it looks like unix, they can try to pull an infringement case! but wait, no evidence! ok, so maybe court trials wont work that way, but litigation will scare people into submitting into their whims, but no, it makes people angry... and so on..
truly, I fear to see what's going on in darl's head. I wonder if he was that special needs child that got 4-square balls thrown at him by other children.
that or life in utah (or wherever he's from) warped him.
who knows.. I'm rambling now because I'm half awake.
UnixWare Sucks.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Unixware isn't good at ANYTHING. It's only that it's required by certain software packages (retail, billing, finance) that were ported to that x86 Unix 6-10 years ago when they were a cheaper platform then the competetion, but haven't ported to a new *nix like system since.
Anyone who pays them money (or continues using the supported applications) is encouraging stagnation. If you can afford an upgrade, do so, or plan to do one soon.
There are many cases where a changeover is ill-advised. But when setting up a new system, put yourself out, try some new software, and hire a poor college student if you need help.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Last time I served in it, the Armed Forces of Sweden were still running SCO Unix for a lot of communications control computers. The systems were very buggy and would often crash. When I left they were just starting to migrate over to (customized) FreeBSD boxes and Windows NT. Now, knowing the Swedish army, I know they are NOT an organization that changes it ways unless it desperately has to (despite what their PR keeps saying). So if they're dropping SCO .. well .. I used their old systems myself, so I know pretty well how much they suck. It's all over for SCO. When all the legal bullshit is done and over with, there'll be nothing but bones left, and maybe the world will be rid of the horror that is UnixWare.
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
Death to the Pointy Haired SCO CEO!!!!
Hats off to you. You did not just say SCO sucks, I would have.
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
Why's SCO still using GPL'ed software in their UnixWare???????????
That could possibly actually be Apache running on UnixWare with LPK.
Small child who stabs everyone who comes within 10 feet with knife, not get many customers at lemonade stand.
Remove SCO support from GCC.. Wouldnt that in the long time make a few small problems for SCO? .. I bet even perl needs to be recompiled ones in a while, and without the development tools and intepreters.. we see how many opensource projects that will support SCO in the future.. This is a bit evil against the OS projects, but.. hasnt SCO been to?
On the lawsuit front, SCO has sued Saddam Hussein for copyright infringement.
"UNIX beard is clearly part of UNIX methods and concepts", claims SCO lawyer David Boies. UNIX beard has long tradition among UNIX kernel developers. It demonstrates authority in enterprise software development. We therefore claim that Saddam has violated our copyrights on UNIX methods and concepts, and demand that SCO UnixWare will be the sole operating system in rebuilt Iraq."
Not until SCO shows the infringing lice.
Du hast das Wort geschrieben falsch. Der beruehmt Wuerstel aus Deutschland ist bekannt als Wiener-Wuerstel. In Deutschland-Slang man sagt auch das zu der Penis.
Unless somebody has been sleeping for 3 years and waiting for a prince or princess to wake them up with a kiss, how long has it been known that SCO's stuff is crapware? And how long has the legal fiaSCO going on?
All this did not happen all of the sudden, anybody in the unfortunate situation of using SCO stuff not having an exit strategy at this moment is grossly negligent.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
http://www.sco.com/xrp/scobiz/features.html
... *cough*... argh.. *cough* "proven"???
read the 5th "advantage" at the bottom of the page...
"Proven Datacenter Infrastructure - Unlike other competitive offerings, SCObiz maintains a highly available, highly secure, state-of-the-art datacenter. This ensures the highest uptime and reliability for SCObiz customers. The SCObiz datacenter has been built using the best-of-breed commercial hardware and software components available today!"
When I think of SCO I sudder of the days we had to go thru .
.
SCO makes one of the worst unix out there. Linux is millions times more stable than sco unix.
We upgraded all our sco boxs to linux
I have trained over one hundred emus to seek and destroy all SCO collaborator's dunny doors!
The main reason NOT to use Unixware: SCO is sueing their customers for using Linux. Our business which has 51 SCO servers also has a bunch of Linux, Sun, W2K & HP servers. When the IT director askedall the team leaders about maybe getting more SCO boxes or replacing them, he was lambasted with getting rid of SCO and never, ever doing business again with them. We are now migrating all applications from SCO to the other servers.
Scott Lockwood married Eric Krout yesterday.
In light of SCO's penchant for frivolous lawsuits, I'll say one thing for the reviewer....he's a brave soul.
Who cares
Didn't X11R6 come out in 1994?
do they remember to pay their Linux taxes?
"Evil will always win because Good is dumb."
- Dark Helmet
The "moral high ground" isn't worth much if a little FUD and bought legislation shoots it out from under you. SCO is playing dirty and they are playing for keeps. You advocate turning the other cheek but SCO has a billy club poised to slap it with.
Fyodor may be a little extreme fixing his auto scripts to detect and refuse to compile on SCO products. I wouldn't do anything like that myself. I would however refuse to spend time on a SCO problem or refuse a SCO patch that doesn't have benefits for other platforms.
SCO products are bitrotting with no help from any of us. SCO is drowning and I'm not militant enough to throw them and their users an anvil. But I will damn well keep my life preservers to myself as far as they are concerned. Mature adults would be foolish to rescue a psychotic screaming loudly that he will stab the first one to help him on board.
I wonder what color the sky is in Darl's world.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
I can see where the reviewer was coming from.
The fact of the matter is that SCO has probably managed to put itself out of business with their litigation. Microsoft can get away with a very poor reputation, but that's because they control most of the home PC market - most people use MS more out of having maximum compatibility than anything else.
SCO isn't nearly as lucky. And, by going after their own customers and threatening their potential customers, they have created an environment for themselves where it doesn't matter if they create an uber-prodcut - nobody new will do buy their products, and their existing customers are probably looking for ways to migrate away.
Essentially, they've shot themselves in the foot with a bazooka - this may be remembered as one of the poorest business decisions in history.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
Anyone want to lend Linus a couple of lawyers so he can sue SCO for tarnishing his trademark? A C&D preventing SCO from mentioning Linux in their press releases might put a hitch in Darls giddyup.
--
E_NOSIG
This would not matter to them, as they feel they own the Linux kernal. As it is theirs, they can do what they want with it...
Uh, who remembers them?... NCR is still very much alive. AT&T bought them up, screwed them over and then spun them off and left them for dead, but they bounced back. Currently at ~30,000 employees worldwide (at least they were before the layoffs). They are into POS systems, data warehousing, stuff like that. I see NCR POS equipment (new & old) in a lot of stores.
*I worked at NCR until this past summer.
Any other examples?