One wonders if they set the mozilla (applies to firefox as well) initialpaint delay to 0 ms. I think it defaults to 250ms (1/4 second) for their tests.
Also wonder if it would make a difference in some of the tests anyway.
To set it to 0ms add the following line to user.js:
If there are any 'fixes' for these please let me know.
-FavIcon's in bookmarks/Toolbars either doesn't work or only works sometimes. They seem to work all the time in Firebird/Phoenix... So the mozilla team does know how to do it...
-Under Linux the 'Save As...' dialogs are all butt ugly, they should integrate with the Gnome/KDE Dialogs that do the same thing. I know we all don't use those desktops so it should probably be a compile time option...
-Under Linux the 'Download Manager' dialog is borked. For instance 'Show File Location' doesn't work. Why? We have file manager's under linux. Make it a definable option so people can define something like 'nautlius %s' or 'konqueror %s' or ' %s', etc..
-Under Linux... Integrate Mozilla's mime type setup with your desktop environment. Yes I know we don't all use Gnome or KDE... But www.freedesktop.org has a shared mime database to at the least fall back on.
-MNG Support is dying/dead!
-Under Linux... Why can't I tell mozilla what program to run when I want to email someone? Why can't I specify evolution, kmail or ?
-I'm sure there are others... If you have more annoyances please reply to this..:-) I'll make a list somewhere.
P.S. I use Mozilla everyday, all day long... So I don't hate it, infact I love the javascript debugger and the DOM inspector... It just could be better and more user friendly.
P.S.S. I'm not a C/C++ developer so I can't, at the moment contribute patches to do any of the above. Nor do I have the money to sponsor the work or I would.
No, Gecko is the 'core technology'. Mozilla is the 'all-in-one' Web Browser/Email/Chat/Etc/Etc/Etc client that was meant to replace the Netscape 'Suite', called Communicator.
For Firebird and Mozilla use the Gecko rendering engine, along with Galeon and a few other 'browsers'.
KDE has implimented the CTL+(C|V|X) method that windows uses. I don't get how people, that I would assume be coming from windows, not be familiar with CTRL+(X|C|V) for cut/copy/paste?
Did everyone just forget that KDE does that and assume it used the standard highlight + button2 thing to copy/paste?
Their 4.x line of browsers sucked and was already loosing market share to IE. Then MS decided to give away IE making the switch from a sucky Netscape browser (which cost money at the time) to a free MS browser that was getting better with each release was a no-brainer.
The first NS browser that was able to compete with IE 5.0 and later was NS 6, which was based on an incomplete Mozilla.
Mozilla is the future for Netscape (either open source or branded) and it was the right decision IMHO, it just came WAY TOO LATE. By the time NS/Mozilla made the decision to ditch the old NS 4.X core MS had pretty much wrapped and won the browser wars.
Now, and with equal footing I hope that the NS 6/Mozilla line can re-gain marketshare from Microsoft. AOL should ditch IE in their AOL product and replace it with Mozilla/NS, but they can't because MS won't give them the special consideration (desktop placement and all) if they do.
If the many, many millions of AOL users suddenly started using NS/Mozilla (because it was switched out by the latest AOL upgrade) the world, browser wise would shape up to be a different landscape IMHO.
Connectiva Linux would be my first suggestion as it's a distro targetted at latin american countries (Portuguese (sp) & Spanish). My second would probably be Mandrake... but YMMV.
As I'm the 'ipaq guy (the one with the ponytail)'. I'd just like to say that we (myself & Chilliware) had a brief discussion about this, nothing solid. I also spoke to Corel and Ximian as well.
There is also some discussion about having standard file formats for PIM apps starting as well. (I'm not the lead on this discussion, one of the Daves from LinuxCare is, his irc nick is digdude. Sorry man I forgot your last name:-)
And I also don't work for Compaq, my Exhibitor badge read 'Handhelds.org'. I do this during my 'free time', ALL my free time.:-)
Anyone with an iPAQ running linux is encouraged to come join the discussion at www.handhelds.org (mailing lists and wiki) and on irc.openprojects.net at #handhelds.org.
Oh, handhelds.org BTW, should not only be used as a place for discussion of ipaq's running linux, but also for other handheld devices running 'Open' Operating systems as well. It is a community site, currently sponsored by Compaq. But others are welcome to sponsor us as well.:-)
Simulatneous releases of all software (server & desktop) for linux as well as NT/AIX (Note the 'desktop' software should include a Notes client and Lotus SmartSuite). At work we are a websphere shop (:-( ), and I can't get Enterprise versions of WebSphere for Linux, so I can't test all of our apps on equal platforms to show the phbs that Linux can do a good job (vs. AIX/Solaris running an Enterprise version of WebSphere). I can show results vs. Advanced & stantdard edition, but then the phbs snidely says, 'Yeah, but we use the Enterprise version!". Anyway...Just my little gripe...Even though I totally dig what IBM is doing.
Also, they need to comit to porting a lot of their software to S/390 Linux. I think it's great that Linux runs on the S/390, but other than opens source software (and this is one of the powers of OSS software, I'm not knocking it), what can I run on it (OSS would be fine for me, but for most corps, it ain't enough).
Also....A Notes client & Lotus Smart Suite...If IBM did a NATIVE (i.e. Not WINE) port of Lotus Smart Suite (taking advantage of KParts or Bonobo) and integrasting with one or both of the desktops, they would sweep the Linux Office market. Add to that a resonable price for the Suite and I could get a LOT of people to switch to Linux....
Hello All Slashdotters (/ME puts on flame retardant suit, just in case)
I just want to say hi. I am a sysadmin at handhelds.org and would like to clarify/expand on some stuff mentioned above.
Note: all of the following comments are mine and do not represent the handhelds.org community as a whole or part
First of all I'd like to say that handhelds.org is not an IPAQ only community and we are currently looking to setup websites/mailing lists/etc that will help anyone looking to port linux to ANY handheld device. So if you are a developer looking to put up your work, please let me know (edwardam@handhelds.org).
The Handhelds.org (hh.org) iPAQ distro is also the base for the pocketlinux distro, they just add their java environment and get rid of our X server (they write directly to the fb), which in my opinion is a technical mistake.
The hh.org distrobution is very minimalistic at this time. We are stsill working on some core issues (that will benefit QTE & pocketlinux) like Advanced Power Management (what we have now I would not consider Advanced), X screen rotation (what we have now is a gross hack; some of the people working on this are Keith Packard and Jim Gettys), jffs (so you can write to the fs; currently we are using cramfs a read-only comrpessed filesystem) and jffs compression (so we can get the same storage we are used to with cramfs)
Our X server sources have been rolled back into the main Xfree 4 tree. Jim Gettys has made a lot of size improvements to xfree and it's xlibs, and I believe there is still more improvement to be made. So everyone will benefit from the work. And let me just say that X is NOT TOO BIG for a handhel!!!! (heck even IBM's Linux Watch runs X.
Lets see what else: We are also replacing xterm with rxvt ('cause xterm is too big).
There is also work going on (with xstroke and xscribble) to do full screen character recognition, so all of the focus issues related to text input will go away (No popups and stuff, just write what you want; Eat your heart out CE). As a matter of fact xstroke is what I currently use on my ipaq
Some other things of interest:
Languages like tcl, python, perl and java are being worked on. One of which may make the standard distro at some point. P.S Just use python (that's my baby), it already has support for unicode, xml, gtk and libglade on the ipaq.
Various people (Alan Cox included) are working on several Window Managers that are PDA specific like pdawm, swm and various hacks on aewm and other.
There is of course NO timetable for any of the above.:-)
If the final shipping product still contains the same tool set, I might get my mother and Apple with OSX on it. Heck, I may even buy myself one (Apples are too expensive though!)...This looks too cool...
I'm sure everyone who writes linux software will probably port. The damn thing even comes with emacs!!!!
1) In this modern era of SDL, why oh why are they writing the LinDVD player to specifically support certain chipsets?
2) If the show was over on 09/09 as their page suggests, then why did none mention it on slashdot? Did anyone go to the Linux World (Taipei) show and see this thing?
I have two theories:
1) The dating technique(sp) that they use to date the rocks, which carefully measures how much various unstable isotopes have decayed away, does not take into account interplanetary phenomenon like various cosmic rays and different forms of radiation....
or
2) Mars, 175 to 180 million years ago supported a thriving civilization of technologically advanced peoples. These peoples were unable to stop a large meteor from impacting their planet....The meteor did impact the planet, spewing Mars debri into the solar system and ending life on Mars...
Any large corporation that doesn't have a proper Change Auditing Process (or whatever they want to call it) has more problems then they realize....Trust me I know....
handhelds.org quote:
Work is underway to enable you to save your WinCE image before installing an operating system, but at this time implementation is not complete.
I have been participating in this effort (a little anyway) and there is the necessary software to save your CE image to a file and the necessary software to lead that image back. It has NOT been tested very much thought!
Can we find any testers?
Slashdot Mirror
One wonders if they set the mozilla (applies to firefox as well) initialpaint delay to 0 ms. I think it defaults to 250ms (1/4 second) for their tests.
Also wonder if it would make a difference in some of the tests anyway.
To set it to 0ms add the following line to user.js:
user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);
Yes! I was just watching Family Guy last night on Adult Swim and was thinking that new episodes would be so cool!
Python has been available in Familiar, and before that in the Compaq Linux for the iPAQ since I packaged it up nearly 3 years ago.
Mailing List Archive Link
If there are any 'fixes' for these please let me know.
... So the mozilla team does know how to do it ...
... Integrate Mozilla's mime type setup with your desktop environment. Yes I know we don't all use Gnome or KDE ... But www.freedesktop.org has a shared mime database to at the least fall back on.
... Why can't I tell mozilla what program to run when I want to email someone? Why can't I specify evolution, kmail or ?
... If you have more annoyances please reply to this.. :-) I'll make a list somewhere.
... So I don't hate it, infact I love the javascript debugger and the DOM inspector ... It just could be better and more user friendly.
-FavIcon's in bookmarks/Toolbars either doesn't work or only works sometimes. They seem to work all the time in Firebird/Phoenix
-Under Linux the 'Save As...' dialogs are all butt ugly, they should integrate with the Gnome/KDE Dialogs that do the same thing. I know we all don't use those desktops so it should probably be a compile time option...
-Under Linux the 'Download Manager' dialog is borked. For instance 'Show File Location' doesn't work. Why? We have file manager's under linux. Make it a definable option so people can define something like 'nautlius %s' or 'konqueror %s' or ' %s', etc..
-Under Linux
-MNG Support is dying/dead!
-Under Linux
-I'm sure there are others
P.S. I use Mozilla everyday, all day long
P.S.S. I'm not a C/C++ developer so I can't, at the moment contribute patches to do any of the above. Nor do I have the money to sponsor the work or I would.
No, Gecko is the 'core technology'. Mozilla is the 'all-in-one' Web Browser/Email/Chat/Etc/Etc/Etc client that was meant to replace the Netscape 'Suite', called Communicator.
For Firebird and Mozilla use the Gecko rendering engine, along with Galeon and a few other 'browsers'.
Mozilla Bug for XForms Support
Favorite comment
Since when does Email == MS Word Docs?
From the article?
"I think a glaring omission is that there is no viewer for Word or Excel files. It can read emails, why not other Word files."
Does anyone else find this scary?
KDE has implimented the CTL+(C|V|X) method that windows uses. I don't get how people, that I would assume be coming from windows, not be familiar with CTRL+(X|C|V) for cut/copy/paste?
Did everyone just forget that KDE does that and assume it used the standard highlight + button2 thing to copy/paste?
No, Netscape chose a path too late. Far too late.
Their 4.x line of browsers sucked and was already loosing market share to IE. Then MS decided to give away IE making the switch from a sucky Netscape browser (which cost money at the time) to a free MS browser that was getting better with each release was a no-brainer.
The first NS browser that was able to compete with IE 5.0 and later was NS 6, which was based on an incomplete Mozilla.
Mozilla is the future for Netscape (either open source or branded) and it was the right decision IMHO, it just came WAY TOO LATE. By the time NS/Mozilla made the decision to ditch the old NS 4.X core MS had pretty much wrapped and won the browser wars.
Now, and with equal footing I hope that the NS 6/Mozilla line can re-gain marketshare from Microsoft. AOL should ditch IE in their AOL product and replace it with Mozilla/NS, but they can't because MS won't give them the special consideration (desktop placement and all) if they do.
If the many, many millions of AOL users suddenly started using NS/Mozilla (because it was switched out by the latest AOL upgrade) the world, browser wise would shape up to be a different landscape IMHO.
Connectiva Linux would be my first suggestion as it's a distro targetted at latin american countries (Portuguese (sp) & Spanish). My second would probably be Mandrake ... but YMMV.
... have fun and good luck.
As far as HOW-TO and notes and everything goes...
Mirror http://www.linuxdoc.org/
And burn it to a CD ROM.
Past that
And if you service goes out you can call the information/message service @ 1-888-433-6963 for an update (it's a recording).
As I'm the 'ipaq guy (the one with the ponytail)'. I'd just like to say that we (myself & Chilliware) had a brief discussion about this, nothing solid. I also spoke to Corel and Ximian as well.
:-)
:-)
:-)
There is also some discussion about having standard file formats for PIM apps starting as well. (I'm not the lead on this discussion, one of the Daves from LinuxCare is, his irc nick is digdude. Sorry man I forgot your last name
And I also don't work for Compaq, my Exhibitor badge read 'Handhelds.org'. I do this during my 'free time', ALL my free time.
Anyone with an iPAQ running linux is encouraged to come join the discussion at www.handhelds.org (mailing lists and wiki) and on irc.openprojects.net at #handhelds.org.
Oh, handhelds.org BTW, should not only be used as a place for discussion of ipaq's running linux, but also for other handheld devices running 'Open' Operating systems as well. It is a community site, currently sponsored by Compaq. But others are welcome to sponsor us as well.
-edwardam@handhelds.org
(AKA Palin)
It's not quite Quake ... but Doom has been running on the linux based iPAQ for about a month now AFAIK.
Check it out here
err...
... :-)
s/Why/Who/
Well atleast this crack smoking junkey corrected his mistakes
1-Why is the crack smoking junkey who put that website together?
2- Anita Borg, Ph.D. -- Product Innovation and Social Responsibility. Hehe. I just think it's too funny.
Exposing the Table Structure as directories and data as files (or some mix of that) would be really nice. Really Really Nice...
:-)
Esp. If you can use things like find, grep, sed and all on them
I want an Atari shirt! You know the Orange ones with the white logo. The problem is. I now need it in XXL!
Simulatneous releases of all software (server & desktop) for linux as well as NT/AIX (Note the 'desktop' software should include a Notes client and Lotus SmartSuite). At work we are a websphere shop ( :-( ), and I can't get Enterprise versions of WebSphere for Linux, so I can't test all of our apps on equal platforms to show the phbs that Linux can do a good job (vs. AIX/Solaris running an Enterprise version of WebSphere). I can show results vs. Advanced & stantdard edition, but then the phbs snidely says, 'Yeah, but we use the Enterprise version!". Anyway...Just my little gripe...Even though I totally dig what IBM is doing.
Also, they need to comit to porting a lot of their software to S/390 Linux. I think it's great that Linux runs on the S/390, but other than opens source software (and this is one of the powers of OSS software, I'm not knocking it), what can I run on it (OSS would be fine for me, but for most corps, it ain't enough).
Also....A Notes client & Lotus Smart Suite...If IBM did a NATIVE (i.e. Not WINE) port of Lotus Smart Suite (taking advantage of KParts or Bonobo) and integrasting with one or both of the desktops, they would sweep the Linux Office market. Add to that a resonable price for the Suite and I could get a LOT of people to switch to Linux....
Hello All Slashdotters (/ME puts on flame retardant suit, just in case)
I just want to say hi. I am a sysadmin at handhelds.org and would like to clarify/expand on some stuff mentioned above.
Note: all of the following comments are mine and do not represent the handhelds.org community as a whole or part
First of all I'd like to say that handhelds.org is not an IPAQ only community and we are currently looking to setup websites/mailing lists/etc that will help anyone looking to port linux to ANY handheld device. So if you are a developer looking to put up your work, please let me know (edwardam@handhelds.org).
The Handhelds.org (hh.org) iPAQ distro is also the base for the pocketlinux distro, they just add their java environment and get rid of our X server (they write directly to the fb), which in my opinion is a technical mistake.
The hh.org distrobution is very minimalistic at this time. We are stsill working on some core issues (that will benefit QTE & pocketlinux) like Advanced Power Management (what we have now I would not consider Advanced), X screen rotation (what we have now is a gross hack; some of the people working on this are Keith Packard and Jim Gettys), jffs (so you can write to the fs; currently we are using cramfs a read-only comrpessed filesystem) and jffs compression (so we can get the same storage we are used to with cramfs)
Our X server sources have been rolled back into the main Xfree 4 tree. Jim Gettys has made a lot of size improvements to xfree and it's xlibs, and I believe there is still more improvement to be made. So everyone will benefit from the work. And let me just say that X is NOT TOO BIG for a handhel!!!! (heck even IBM's Linux Watch runs X.
Lets see what else: We are also replacing xterm with rxvt ('cause xterm is too big).
There is also work going on (with xstroke and xscribble) to do full screen character recognition, so all of the focus issues related to text input will go away (No popups and stuff, just write what you want; Eat your heart out CE). As a matter of fact xstroke is what I currently use on my ipaq
Some other things of interest:
Languages like tcl, python, perl and java are being worked on. One of which may make the standard distro at some point. P.S Just use python (that's my baby), it already has support for unicode, xml, gtk and libglade on the ipaq.
Various people (Alan Cox included) are working on several Window Managers that are PDA specific like pdawm, swm and various hacks on aewm and other.
There is of course NO timetable for any of the above. :-)
edwardam@handhelds.orgIf the final shipping product still contains the same tool set, I might get my mother and Apple with OSX on it. Heck, I may even buy myself one (Apples are too expensive though!)...This looks too cool...
I'm sure everyone who writes linux software will probably port. The damn thing even comes with emacs!!!!
1) In this modern era of SDL, why oh why are they writing the LinDVD player to specifically support certain chipsets?
2) If the show was over on 09/09 as their page suggests, then why did none mention it on slashdot? Did anyone go to the Linux World (Taipei) show and see this thing?
I have two theories:
1) The dating technique(sp) that they use to date the rocks, which carefully measures how much various unstable isotopes have decayed away, does not take into account interplanetary phenomenon like various cosmic rays and different forms of radiation....
or
2) Mars, 175 to 180 million years ago supported a thriving civilization of technologically advanced peoples. These peoples were unable to stop a large meteor from impacting their planet....The meteor did impact the planet, spewing Mars debri into the solar system and ending life on Mars...
Or maybe I just need some sleep....
Any large corporation that doesn't have a proper Change Auditing Process (or whatever they want to call it) has more problems then they realize....Trust me I know....
handhelds.org quote: Work is underway to enable you to save your WinCE image before installing an operating system, but at this time implementation is not complete. I have been participating in this effort (a little anyway) and there is the necessary software to save your CE image to a file and the necessary software to lead that image back. It has NOT been tested very much thought! Can we find any testers?
In show of support, I just went to copyleft and bought three t-shirts, one of which is the decss shirt. Put your money where your mouth is.