Yes, probably different usage patterns. Reporting tends to be rare-ish and mostly done as part of a nighttime batch process for us, for example. Probably because it did tend to drag down the network back in the arcnet and 1MB ethernet days, for the reasons you previously mentioned... Back in the day, though, nothing else in its price range could touch FB/FP/VFP for speed and usability.
I certainly don't deny that 'the day' is over by now. I regularly find myself cursing VFP's lack of programming features. It would be a massive undertaking to reimplement our code in something more modern, but maybe the news that MS won't be further developing it might be the impetus needed to finally get us to move on. I'm partial to Python+wx+{MySQL|PostgreSQL}:-).
I'm not sure what your problem could be. I'm not going to demean your skills by calling you a 'hobbyist' or anything; I'm not here to start a flamewar.
My company has a large application written in VFP, used by quite a few people simultaneously, multiuser over gigabit ethernet, all DBFs on a central server, and performance is quite reasonable. That includes running reports against the data (and some tables have a million+ records in them). I don't doubt that there are faster solutions out there, but our application evolved with the language - it started out as a dBase II application that got converted to Foxbase and then through all the various versions to the current one, so we've learned our way around every quirk and bottleneck in the language. And we've had the same 3 core developers the whole time, so we know the language, the application and the data inside and out. (well, except for me; I was away from it for 5 years or so and forgot a lot:-))
Your idea of exporting to a faster DBMS is a nifty one, though. I don't know whether in our sitiuation there'd be any great benefit, but I'll mention it to the other developers.
I've been programming in various versions of FP since 1989 or so (FoxBase+). Since the language is built around the idea of manipulating tables, doing so is incredibly easy compared to the awful hoops you have to jump through in more modern or general purpose languages (Java, perl, python, C/C++).
That said, it feels very dated working in VFP. Especially with things like arrays, which are horribly crippled compared to the equivalent in perl or python. VFP's OO-ness isn't all it could be, either. I'd hoped the 'open source' part of the announcement would mean someone (maybe I?) would be able to add associative arrays to the language, but there is some confusion about whether VFP itself or some derivative called 'Sedna' is actually being open sourced. I need to find out more.
it was found that some developers had been exposed to the real Windows source code I hope they were able to return to society after thorough rehabilitation.
I also contribute $120 once or twice a year to NPR. I listen to NHPR when I can. I also switch to another station whenever they begin mentioning their sponsors, because I consider it a form of advertising, and I will not be advertised at.
willingly submit their toddlers to having their biometric data archived in some sort of misguided attempt to save them from a potential kidnapping or rape I'm not sure what you're specifically referring to here. I've helped out at a 'child identification program'. The kids are fingerprinted, have their cheek swabbed for DNA, and are interviewed on videotape. All this is done in front of their parent/guardian, who receive all the materials in a nice boxed kit to be stored somewhere safe in case the worst happens and their child goes missing. The records are to assist Law Enforcement in locating and/or identifying the child. It doesn't, and can't, "save them from a potential kidnapping or rape".
A joke I used to make back in those days was, "If your system has to use scientific notation to express the amount of memory available, you're in good shape."
Cray is dead. But it was sweet. the servers they were making in '93-'95 are only just now being outperformed. R.I.P. Cray, maker of supercomputers which were so fast, they could execute an infinite loop in 1.71 seconds.
Re:hey, the guy stepped up and did something.
on
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Heh, I tell people that my experience with IE is limited to using it as the first stage of the (Netscape/Mozilla/) Firefox installer:-).
And Windows Update, though that's not by choice.
I use Safari for pretty much the same thing, though unlike with IE, I don't have any sort of negative opinion of it - I've simply standardized on Firefox for all my browsing needs, regardless of platform.
There was also something similar in H. Beam Piper's book 'Space Vikings', an anecdote about two... 'Gilgameshers'(? I forget, it's been a while since I read it) being marooned on a planet and when rescued years later were fabulously wealthy from trading hats back and forth.
I believe that in many English-speaking countries, collectives (rock bands, corporations, etc) are treated as if they're plural. Maybe government agencies follow the same rule.
Ah, I didn't realize that, thanks. Sadly, I asked that exact question of one of the developers exactly one year ago at PyCon, but I was so dead tired from the cross-country drive there that I don't remember the answer:-).
I figured the question would be of interest to more than just me, and that possibly things would have changed in the intervening year, so decided to post it here.
Given that a lot of the client is (was?) written in Python (Stackless Python, IIRC), what's preventing an OS X client? I don't play EVE anymore mostly because I've switched away from Windows.
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Interesting, thanks!
Yes, probably different usage patterns. Reporting tends to be rare-ish and mostly done as part of a nighttime batch process for us, for example. Probably because it did tend to drag down the network back in the arcnet and 1MB ethernet days, for the reasons you previously mentioned... Back in the day, though, nothing else in its price range could touch FB/FP/VFP for speed and usability.
:-).
I certainly don't deny that 'the day' is over by now. I regularly find myself cursing VFP's lack of programming features. It would be a massive undertaking to reimplement our code in something more modern, but maybe the news that MS won't be further developing it might be the impetus needed to finally get us to move on. I'm partial to Python+wx+{MySQL|PostgreSQL}
I'm not sure what your problem could be. I'm not going to demean your skills by calling you a 'hobbyist' or anything; I'm not here to start a flamewar.
:-))
My company has a large application written in VFP, used by quite a few people simultaneously, multiuser over gigabit ethernet, all DBFs on a central server, and performance is quite reasonable. That includes running reports against the data (and some tables have a million+ records in them). I don't doubt that there are faster solutions out there, but our application evolved with the language - it started out as a dBase II application that got converted to Foxbase and then through all the various versions to the current one, so we've learned our way around every quirk and bottleneck in the language. And we've had the same 3 core developers the whole time, so we know the language, the application and the data inside and out. (well, except for me; I was away from it for 5 years or so and forgot a lot
Your idea of exporting to a faster DBMS is a nifty one, though. I don't know whether in our sitiuation there'd be any great benefit, but I'll mention it to the other developers.
I've been programming in various versions of FP since 1989 or so (FoxBase+). Since the language is built around the idea of manipulating tables, doing so is incredibly easy compared to the awful hoops you have to jump through in more modern or general purpose languages (Java, perl, python, C/C++).
That said, it feels very dated working in VFP. Especially with things like arrays, which are horribly crippled compared to the equivalent in perl or python. VFP's OO-ness isn't all it could be, either. I'd hoped the 'open source' part of the announcement would mean someone (maybe I?) would be able to add associative arrays to the language, but there is some confusion about whether VFP itself or some derivative called 'Sedna' is actually being open sourced. I need to find out more.
Fuck you, asshole.
I make it a point to make the appropriate inappropriate gesture to every jackass like yourself I see on the road.
I also contribute $120 once or twice a year to NPR. I listen to NHPR when I can. I also switch to another station whenever they begin mentioning their sponsors, because I consider it a form of advertising, and I will not be advertised at.
WAR ON SMAUG.
Thorin Oakenshield '08!!!
Ditto for my Lodge :-).
A joke I used to make back in those days was, "If your system has to use scientific notation to express the amount of memory available, you're in good shape."
But it was sweet. the servers they were making in '93-'95 are only just now being outperformed. R.I.P. Cray, maker of supercomputers which were so fast, they could execute an infinite loop in 1.71 seconds.
I wonder whether SIMH would run on my Zaurus...
Some of us like to see the punsters rice to the occasion.
Heh, I tell people that my experience with IE is limited to using it as the first stage of the (Netscape/Mozilla/) Firefox installer :-).
And Windows Update, though that's not by choice.
I use Safari for pretty much the same thing, though unlike with IE, I don't have any sort of negative opinion of it - I've simply standardized on Firefox for all my browsing needs, regardless of platform.
There was also something similar in H. Beam Piper's book 'Space Vikings', an anecdote about two ... 'Gilgameshers'(? I forget, it's been a while since I read it) being marooned on a planet and when rescued years later were fabulously wealthy from trading hats back and forth.
Just FYI, 'DNS' is the 'Domain Name System', so 'DNS servers' isn't redundant. Rant on, I agree with the rest of what you said :-).
Wasn't that a baby moose?
I thought the Alan Parson Project was some form of hovercraft?
The stereotypical Slashdot reader would obviously interpret 'DoD' as 'Dungeons or Dragons'. :-)
True, and then there's the one-man bands.
I believe that in many English-speaking countries, collectives (rock bands, corporations, etc) are treated as if they're plural. Maybe government agencies follow the same rule.
Ah, I didn't realize that, thanks. Sadly, I asked that exact question of one of the developers exactly one year ago at PyCon, but I was so dead tired from the cross-country drive there that I don't remember the answer :-).
I figured the question would be of interest to more than just me, and that possibly things would have changed in the intervening year, so decided to post it here.
Given that a lot of the client is (was?) written in Python (Stackless Python, IIRC), what's preventing an OS X client? I don't play EVE anymore mostly because I've switched away from Windows.