Since I saw too many people who didn't read the article, I won't reply to each one, I'll just start a new thread.
1. They say it's a hybrid OS
so-It's not Linux with a new Windows Manager
3. They say there are no apps yet
so-It's not Linux
4. They say it's a cross between Linux and BeOS so-It's not Linux
This box is not helping pave the way for world domination. I am willing to bet it won't even cut into the MS profit margin. It will be plauged with bugs, bad tech support and send consumers screaming. What it does do is give Linux a bad name if all of that happens, articles like this that the public can see, and then go buy one of these things will hurt Linux in the long run, say the box works OK (it won't be bug free it's version 1.0 of a hybrid OS)then everything might be fien, but if it's as buggy as most 1.0 products then MS can say "llok it runs Linux". This won't be true but it is what is most likely to happen, and besdies if this company is a threat they are small enough for MS to squish them. This box does not run Linux and doesn't have any apps other than a browser, it doesn't support a lot iof multi-media stuff, if you want to just check you e-mail I guess it's cheaper than a good palmtop, but in the long run it won't be worth it. so-It's no Linux
Oh look, no mention of RedHat in the thread yet and already the bashing starts.
Linux gains a little bit of main-stream attention, and now everybody and their brother wants a piece of the pie
Get real these "Johnny-come-latelies" have been publishing Linux books forever, I appluad them for deciding to make their own distro. The more distros we have the harder it would be for RH to turn into the MS monster that people seem to think it will.
Maybe they'll go the same Route RedHat has opted to, and start brokering deals in which software will be developed only for their platform.
You can take your foot out of your mouth now, I'm sure the shoe leather tastes bad. RH did not broker any deals, they happen to be the leading distro right now and as companies try to penetrate the Linux market they are using the same methods they used in other markets. Software certification is nothing new, and if they only want to test on one distro then thats their right, Code Warrior is open source, you don't like the RH brand on it, d/l it and make a Debian release of it, or a Slackware release. The problem you percieve does not exist, get over it.
Look at what both Corel and Microsoft are doing with their 2000 suites. They're working towards selling the end user a "thin client" application that includes just enough functionality to allow the user to do whatever has to be done on the client side, i.e. setup, configuration, UI, etc. with the core of the application living on a server at your local neighborhood Application Service Provider (ASP). In other words, without the ASP (whether it's your corporate app servers or your ISP) your MS Office is an empty shell. This is a bad thing, just another way to lock users into proprietary software, in my opinion.
Apparently you have never installed MS Ofiices 2000. You do not need an application server at all, just install and go. You have the option, as you have with all recent versions of MS Office to run it from a server, a CD or local HDD. The server install is noghting new and at smaller companies where storage can get tight at times, it is very helpful. I have never run COrel so I won't comment on it, but what MS is doing is nothing new, they won't make Office have to have an application server anytime soon, but you will always be able to run it from the server.
Macro viruses are not spread by executables, and you cannot take away the users ability to share documents. The majority of viruses today are Word/Excel macro viruses. Users share work with one another so you cannot stop the flow as easy as you think, most Word docs fit on a floppy.
I am currently running Mandrake 6.0 and the only problem I have had is not with Mandrake it is with X so it's a moot point to this discussion. I run copies of Mandrake as servers that back up 400 gig of data per night to two 4 dirve DLT machines. I used to run RH but found that I liked Mandrake better. This version appears to be very stable, but I have only been running it a week. I have ahd 0 downtime thus far.
Allright asshole, look I have plenty of friends who smoke, and they have very little drive to do anything else. Yes I use caffiene but I don't need it. You want me to go look at a webpage that was designed by an advocate group, please, just like the gov't I'll bet they use statistics to prove their point. Tell you what I can prove just about anything with statistics, so can any college grad. that took the right course. I don't base my opinions on what I've been taught, I base them on what I see.
If you had ever read anything wlese I have written then you would have seen me say that Linux is not ready for the masses, all I was saying is that RH is the closest to being ready. I have my nice cushy tech support job because of MS, I am MS certified and support MS products at work, but use a Linux box at home and at the office. You seem to have a low opinion of the public at least I gaive them credit for being able to learn. I have helped plenty of my users get Linux up and running at home, and showed them where to get free tech supprot online.
Just as a point of reference my mom runs Linux now because of me. I have been over to her house ten or twelve times since the install and she has never had to ask me a question or get me to fix something. It was just the opposite when she was running MS productds. My wife had never used a computer to do anything besides play solitare before we got married now she designs webpages on her own Linux box.
I don't consider my users idiots, by they do make up part of the lowest common denominator. We all do it's all part of the whole. Even most die hard MS users I know hate having to re-boot their syste,s all the time and want something better. If the people you know are complacent then thatis a problem. As for your pot reference, get a fucking grip, pot doesn't kill but it makes people stupid. Flame me all you want for that comment I couldn't care less, but anyone who needs drugs to cope with reality needs serious help.
Re:Redhat is no more free than Caldera or S.u.S.E.
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Both SuSE and Caldera can be gotten through ftp, therefore they are free, if you don't believe call SuSE's 1-800 number it's on their website.
You are either blind, ignorant or just... not everyone knows, understands, or gives a f*ck about this thing called GPL/GNU (im not saying im one of those people) -- but you, and others like you act as if everyperson big and small, young and old around the entire planet are aware of, and understand the meaning of terms such as 'GPL, GNU, FREESOFTWARE (your version, you know the -not beer- but/free speech/) --
A simple search for Red Hat on any mahjor search engine will reveal their homepage, if you look around for maybe two seconds they have a list of mirrors for free download of their product. I've never looked but I bet they have at least a link that talks about the GPL.
you see, my mom isnt 'dumb' or 'stupid', she is actually quite brilliant.. she writes books, and poetry and does art.. ALL ON THE COMPUTER!! no shit. and she dont know GPL! or RPM!
No actually your mom would be ignorant (check the definition before you get all pissed off) and if she really knows computers that well she could easily find out.
i doubt you will even see my point, because most of you where blinders, (you know those things on the bridle of a horse that cover the perifial(sp?) vision) you need to push them off, take a look around.. every computer user is a developer, a h4q3r, or ever technical, not even enough to understand all the things you say here.
So maybe it's time to educate the masses, most everyone I have ever heard ask about Linux has looked it up on the net and knows a little about the free software concept and wants to know more. As you mentioned in your post there will be "dumb" Linux users out there, but they can get help if they want. As for the blinders, I think not buddy boy, I am tech support I see the end user every single flippin' day so don't YOU ever think I don't understand the lowest common denominator, you have assumed way too much about me and I pity you for that. One last thing five years ago the "conversation with mom" could have been about winsock apps, now mom uses them daily (she might not know what winsock is but that doesn't matter). Linux is a good OS it's being ready for the masses is up for debate, but if ignorant people want to buy a new OS without at least looking at the company's homepage then how much pity am I supposed to have, i can't sure stupidity.
P.S. Network broadcast news has had coverage of th MS trial as has CNN, most newspapers, and a plethora of web sites, so again if they don't know there is a trial IGNORANCE.
1)The hype. Both their latest 6.0 release, and 5.0 were somewhat hastily put out with more than a few glitches in them. Compared this to Debian which puts out new releases according to when they think it's ready, not when their marketing or sales dept say so (like all commercial software companies). And GNOME can be accused of this too. GNOME may be getting a lot of attention, and the support of RedHat, but let's face it, KDE is much more stable and much less hyped.
It has been said before and I will say it again- Release early, Release often. I have RH 6.0 installed and running on over 10 machines with nothing other than minor problems, I have VERY few intelligent responses when someone is aked why the 6.0 release has glitches, maybe you could point some out for us.
2)Price, e.g, the $80 price tag for their latest distribution. I would certainly hope they support further linux development with this kind of inflated price they're charging people. I think this could indicate an attitude of greed which justifies comparisons to Micro$oft.
I am now convinced that you just didn't read any of the previous comments, lets see $80.00 USD gets you manuals and support for 1 year, 1.99 gets you the same distro less manuals and support, or if you have a modem it's just d/l time that you spend. So quit bitching about the price and move on to something that matters. You seem to have forgotten that even RH 6.0 is released under the GPL !
3)A number of accounts of a growing arrogance from within the company. This is what it all boils down to. If RedHat is not appreciative of the fact the what they "produce" is the result of the generous work of a whole community of people, and if they are only looking out for RedHat making a buck then there is definite reason to keep a wary eye on them.
Could this also be pride, I think RH has every right to be a little proud, they are the best at bringing Linux to the unwashed masses. If you want to see this as arrogance then fine. Any time someone is on top people will find fault with them.
Finally somebody who knows something, Schlumberger a multi-national, multi-billion dollar company is tossing all of their Alphas world wide because the support is shit and you can buld a better intel based machine. And no Schlumbereger is not an NT shop nothing critical runs on NT.
You don't have to be licensed to buy anything but the one pound canisters actually, but the price of a 30 lbs canister is steep so it is not like the average joe schmo would buy it and just leave it sitting around.
Re:What desktops actually need
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Cause it ain't Micro$oft?
Ok you are right I missed that one. That is a wrong reason, but then again plenty of people would probably argue that point also saying that anything that isn't MS is obviously better.
Re:CLD is not in a nearmonopoly situation
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First off I don't need to read slowly, my ideas are clear when I type why can't other peoples be (not refering to this thread) all I am doing is voicing concern, look a couple of articles back and many people voiced concern about Red Hat, they just worded it differently. The same fears people have of RH should intesify with a company like Corel. I just want to get people to think about what could happen. Please don't insult me again by asking me to read slowly.
Re:Good Open Source Citizens
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How very odd I just stuck my Win98 CD in and, rebooted and it booted from CD, there have been at least two releases of 98 thus far, maybe one is bootable and one isn't no need to flame someone because you got a non-bootable copy. And NT 4.0 is a bootable CD.
Re:Corel support Open Source, no really they do !
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I won't even bother to pick out the specifics in this response. Read any thread about MS in the past year, you will see what I am talking about. Enough said.
Re:What desktops actually need
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The ONLY reason people should switch to Linux is because it is what is better for them. Open Source/Free Software etc. are all subsets of the only reason. There is no wrong reason because people won't switch if it's not right for them. This comment almost strikes me as another way of saying newbies are bad.
If I am wrong, tell me, what is a wrong reason to switch to Linux ???????
What if I want to d/l it and don't want the extra time for the WP ? Just a thought. I notice that no-one has disagreed with the second part of my message. Just as a bit of information IE IS hardcoded into 98, you can remove the icons but it is the file manager/browser, hrmm just like KDE but we don't bitch about that why because it's Linux. Again we do not hold Linux to the same standards we want MS to adhere to and that makes us all look bad.
Re:Corel support Open Source, no really they do !
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You are missing my point entirely, what if I wnat to get Corel Linux without WP and they have chosen to bundle it and install it by default ? what then, yes I can un-install it but should I have to ? As usual the Linux fanatics I mentioned in the above post strike quickly, if it was MS you wouldn't be happy you would bitch even more because they were trying to kill of MS Office competition, you have done nothing but prove my point even further
Corel support Open Source, no really they do !
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Will Corel release the source code for its major applications? While Corel recognizes the value of open source development in many areas, and is actively participating in a number of open source efforts such as Wine and development of KDE, the company has no plans to release the source code for its major applications. Corel's major applications contain many features that rely on code licensed from other vendors, with whom the company has a variety of contractual obligations--one of which is to keep their source code private. Corel could not release its application source code without a tremendous amount of development work to isolate the licensed code, and this work would have a significant impact on release schedules.
Corel seems to be jumping on the Linux/Open Source bandwagon as long as it doens't have to release it's "real" products as Open Source, or so that it doesn't effect their release schedules. On top of that they sya if they did then they would not be able to release all of it, I personally doubt these claims and say that Corel should do all or nothing. We are screaming at MS for not releasing their code and then Corel can say this and everyone just accepts it.
Will CLD be available as a standalone or bundled with Corel's applications? Corel is still in the process of determining whether CLD will be bundled with Corel applications only, or if it will also be available as a standalone product. Corel's objective is to give as many desktop users access to Linux as possible and if there is a demand for a standalone product, the company will certainly investigate the opportunity.
They are actually considering bundling, isn't that one of the reasons we are pissed at MS, or is it OK for a Linux distro to do it ? IMHO we should be upset that they are considering bundling with only their product and not offering a stand alone. I we want to appear to be a coherent community then we must hold all Linux distros to the same standards that we attack MS under, if not then we are nothing but hypocrites and fantics.
I think you are way too paranoid, even if they added a "dumbed-down" set of features and left it compatible with other flavors, I think you would still complain. As much as I hate to say this, Linux does need some OPTIONAL "dumbed-down" features so that the average secratary could make use of it. Red Hat and Mandrake are the only companies making Linux available to the average user, SuSE is trying, but the other distros won't survive unless they make it more accessible to the public. I mean survive in the sense of gaining acceptance in the publics eye.
The "newbies are bad for Linux" attitude does not exist with Red Hat, and that is a great plus. The only reason I still have MS products is that my wife doesn't understand how to use Linux, she doesn't use a computer at her job so she doesn't need to know any more than how to check e-mail and write webpages, MS is easier to set up to do that than Linux. I hate MS and use Linux at the office but my point is Red Hat is making Linux accesseble to the common man and they seem to get is flack for hardcore users, if you don't like Red Hat don't use it, but don't them trying to make a few bucks, they do more promtion for Linux than any three other distros combined. Look at the current tour they are doing. They may not cater to people who are hardcore users but they are doing a good job at promoting Linux and getting press attention and when someone looks at Red Hat they will probably find other distros and look at them. This IPO will get mainstream press attention and that will be good for the Linux community in general. So what if they eventually become another Borg, people will have seen hat there are other choices and the public will be better off in general.
Nobody who spells so badly can be a very good coder
Get real, not everbody who can code can spell, and everybody who can spell can code. I can't spell when I type, but when I code my fingers are trained as to what I want to do, you don't have to know the whole language to code.
There is no doubt he would have been fired for technical reasons had he not quit
How do you there is no doubt about that, do you have information that we don't.
Nope, no internet registration is required, I have been using it about 2 weeks, and due to the fact I am on a Windows machine at work, in two week I know I have started it more than 50 times.
If WinAmp was OSS, I'd probably be able to split the music and voice frequencies into to mp3 files and use the voice samples I've been wanting to use with Acid DJ. I would just go in tinker with code, and press a play/record combo that lets me do that. Anyone actually know if there is something like this, btw?
Actually you can do it with Cool Edit Pro using a 30 band graphic EQ. However there is no way to seperate "voice" and "music" freqs in a file becuase the file is flat and if the voice is close to an instrumnet you'll pull both. So even if Winamp was OSS it wouldn't be able to do what you wanted it to. If you know much about sound editing you'd know that the so called kareoke machines that remove the vox make the rest of the song sound like crap because it messes with the mad range freqs. I love OSS but it doesn't necessatailly make everyhting better.
Slashdot Mirror
Since I saw too many people who didn't read the article, I won't reply to each one, I'll just start a new thread.
1. They say it's a hybrid OS
so-It's not Linux with a new Windows Manager
3. They say there are no apps yet
so-It's not Linux
4. They say it's a cross between Linux and BeOS
so-It's not Linux
This box is not helping pave the way for world domination. I am willing to bet it won't even cut into the MS profit margin. It will be plauged with bugs, bad tech support and send consumers screaming. What it does do is give Linux a bad name if all of that happens, articles like this that the public can see, and then go buy one of these things will hurt Linux in the long run, say the box works OK (it won't be bug free it's version 1.0 of a hybrid OS)then everything might be fien, but if it's as buggy as most 1.0 products then MS can say "llok it runs Linux". This won't be true but it is what is most likely to happen, and besdies if this company is a threat they are small enough for MS to squish them. This box does not run Linux and doesn't have any apps other than a browser, it doesn't support a lot iof multi-media stuff, if you want to just check you e-mail I guess it's cheaper than a good palmtop, but in the long run it won't be worth it.
so-It's no Linux
correction acknowledged, I was under the impression that the RH version would be open source
Oh look, no mention of RedHat in the thread yet and already the bashing starts.
Linux gains a little bit of main-stream attention, and now everybody and their brother wants a piece of the pie
Get real these "Johnny-come-latelies" have been publishing Linux books forever, I appluad them for deciding to make their own distro. The more distros we have the harder it would be for RH to turn into the MS monster that people seem to think it will.
Maybe they'll go the same Route RedHat has opted to, and start brokering deals in which software will be developed only for their platform.
You can take your foot out of your mouth now, I'm sure the shoe leather tastes bad. RH did not broker any deals, they happen to be the leading distro right now and as companies try to penetrate the Linux market they are using the same methods they used in other markets. Software certification is nothing new, and if they only want to test on one distro then thats their right, Code Warrior is open source, you don't like the RH brand on it, d/l it and make a Debian release of it, or a Slackware release. The problem you percieve does not exist, get over it.
Look at what both Corel and Microsoft are doing with their 2000 suites. They're working towards selling the end user a "thin client" application that includes just enough functionality to allow the user to do whatever has to be done on the client side, i.e. setup, configuration, UI, etc. with the core of the application living on a server at your local neighborhood Application Service Provider (ASP). In other words, without the ASP (whether it's your corporate app servers or your ISP) your MS Office is an empty shell. This is a bad thing, just another way to lock users into proprietary software, in my opinion.
Apparently you have never installed MS Ofiices 2000. You do not need an application server at all, just install and go. You have the option, as you have with all recent versions of MS Office to run it from a server, a CD or local HDD. The server install is noghting new and at smaller companies where storage can get tight at times, it is very helpful. I have never run COrel so I won't comment on it, but what MS is doing is nothing new, they won't make Office have to have an application server anytime soon, but you will always be able to run it from the server.
Macro viruses are not spread by executables, and you cannot take away the users ability to share documents. The majority of viruses today are Word/Excel macro viruses. Users share work with one another so you cannot stop the flow as easy as you think, most Word docs fit on a floppy.
I am currently running Mandrake 6.0 and the only problem I have had is not with Mandrake it is with X so it's a moot point to this discussion. I run copies of Mandrake as servers that back up 400 gig of data per night to two 4 dirve DLT machines. I used to run RH but found that I liked Mandrake better. This version appears to be very stable, but I have only been running it a week. I have ahd 0 downtime thus far.
Allright asshole, look I have plenty of friends who smoke, and they have very little drive to do anything else. Yes I use caffiene but I don't need it. You want me to go look at a webpage that was designed by an advocate group, please, just like the gov't I'll bet they use statistics to prove their point. Tell you what I can prove just about anything with statistics, so can any college grad. that took the right course. I don't base my opinions on what I've been taught, I base them on what I see.
If you had ever read anything wlese I have written then you would have seen me say that Linux is not ready for the masses, all I was saying is that RH is the closest to being ready. I have my nice cushy tech support job because of MS, I am MS certified and support MS products at work, but use a Linux box at home and at the office. You seem to have a low opinion of the public at least I gaive them credit for being able to learn. I have helped plenty of my users get Linux up and running at home, and showed them where to get free tech supprot online.
Just as a point of reference my mom runs Linux now because of me. I have been over to her house ten or twelve times since the install and she has never had to ask me a question or get me to fix something. It was just the opposite when she was running MS productds. My wife had never used a computer to do anything besides play solitare before we got married now she designs webpages on her own Linux box.
I don't consider my users idiots, by they do make up part of the lowest common denominator. We all do it's all part of the whole. Even most die hard MS users I know hate having to re-boot their syste,s all the time and want something better. If the people you know are complacent then thatis a problem. As for your pot reference, get a fucking grip, pot doesn't kill but it makes people stupid. Flame me all you want for that comment I couldn't care less, but anyone who needs drugs to cope with reality needs serious help.
Both SuSE and Caldera can be gotten through ftp, therefore they are free, if you don't believe call SuSE's 1-800 number it's on their website.
You are either blind, ignorant or just ... /free speech/) --
not everyone knows, understands, or gives a f*ck about this thing called GPL/GNU (im not saying im one of those people) -- but you, and others like you act as if everyperson big and small, young and old around the entire planet are aware of, and understand the meaning of terms such as 'GPL, GNU, FREESOFTWARE (your version, you know the -not beer- but
A simple search for Red Hat on any mahjor search engine will reveal their homepage, if you look around for maybe two seconds they have a list of mirrors for free download of their product. I've never looked but I bet they have at least a link that talks about the GPL.
you see, my mom isnt 'dumb' or 'stupid', she is actually quite brilliant.. she writes books, and poetry and does art.. ALL ON THE COMPUTER!! no shit. and she dont know GPL! or RPM!
No actually your mom would be ignorant (check the definition before you get all pissed off) and if she really knows computers that well she could easily find out.
i doubt you will even see my point, because most of you where blinders, (you know those things on the bridle of a horse that cover the perifial(sp?) vision) you need to push them off, take a look around.. every computer user is a developer, a h4q3r, or ever technical, not even enough to understand all the things you say here.
So maybe it's time to educate the masses, most everyone I have ever heard ask about Linux has looked it up on the net and knows a little about the free software concept and wants to know more. As you mentioned in your post there will be "dumb" Linux users out there, but they can get help if they want. As for the blinders, I think not buddy boy, I am tech support I see the end user every single flippin' day so don't YOU ever think I don't understand the lowest common denominator, you have assumed way too much about me and I pity you for that. One last thing five years ago the "conversation with mom" could have been about winsock apps, now mom uses them daily (she might not know what winsock is but that doesn't matter). Linux is a good OS it's being ready for the masses is up for debate, but if ignorant people want to buy a new OS without at least looking at the company's homepage then how much pity am I supposed to have, i can't sure stupidity.
P.S. Network broadcast news has had coverage of th MS trial as has CNN, most newspapers, and a plethora of web sites, so again if they don't know there is a trial IGNORANCE.
1)The hype. Both their latest 6.0 release, and 5.0 were somewhat hastily put out with more than a few glitches in them. Compared this to Debian which puts out new releases according to when they think it's ready, not when their marketing or sales dept say so (like all commercial software companies).
And GNOME can be accused of this too. GNOME may be getting a lot of attention, and the support of RedHat, but let's face it, KDE is much more stable and much less hyped.
It has been said before and I will say it again-
Release early, Release often.
I have RH 6.0 installed and running on over 10 machines with nothing other than minor problems, I have VERY few intelligent responses when someone is aked why the 6.0 release has glitches, maybe you could point some out for us.
2)Price, e.g, the $80 price tag for their latest distribution. I would certainly hope they support further linux development with this kind of inflated price they're charging people. I think this could indicate an attitude of greed which justifies comparisons to Micro$oft.
I am now convinced that you just didn't read any of the previous comments, lets see $80.00 USD gets you manuals and support for 1 year, 1.99 gets you the same distro less manuals and support, or if you have a modem it's just d/l time that you spend. So quit bitching about the price and move on to something that matters. You seem to have forgotten that even RH 6.0 is released under the GPL !
3)A number of accounts of a growing arrogance from within the company. This is what it all boils down to. If RedHat is not appreciative of the fact the what they "produce" is the result of the generous work of a whole community of people, and if they are only looking out for RedHat making a buck then there is definite reason to keep a wary eye on them.
Could this also be pride, I think RH has every right to be a little proud, they are the best at bringing Linux to the unwashed masses. If you want to see this as arrogance then fine. Any time someone is on top people will find fault with them.
Finally somebody who knows something, Schlumberger a multi-national, multi-billion dollar company is tossing all of their Alphas world wide because the support is shit and you can buld a better intel based machine. And no Schlumbereger is not an NT shop nothing critical runs on NT.
You don't have to be licensed to buy anything but the one pound canisters actually, but the price of a 30 lbs canister is steep so it is not like the average joe schmo would buy it and just leave it sitting around.
Cause it ain't Micro$oft?
Ok you are right I missed that one. That is a wrong reason, but then again plenty of people would probably argue that point also saying that anything that isn't MS is obviously better.
First off I don't need to read slowly, my ideas are clear when I type why can't other peoples be (not refering to this thread) all I am doing is voicing concern, look a couple of articles back and many people voiced concern about Red Hat, they just worded it differently. The same fears people have of RH should intesify with a company like Corel. I just want to get people to think about what could happen. Please don't insult me again by asking me to read slowly.
How very odd I just stuck my Win98 CD in and, rebooted and it booted from CD, there have been at least two releases of 98 thus far, maybe one is bootable and one isn't no need to flame someone because you got a non-bootable copy. And NT 4.0 is a bootable CD.
I won't even bother to pick out the specifics in this response. Read any thread about MS in the past year, you will see what I am talking about. Enough said.
The ONLY reason people should switch to Linux is because it is what is better for them. Open Source/Free Software etc. are all subsets of the only reason. There is no wrong reason because people won't switch if it's not right for them. This comment almost strikes me as another way of saying newbies are bad.
If I am wrong, tell me, what is a wrong reason to switch to Linux ???????
What if I want to d/l it and don't want the extra time for the WP ? Just a thought. I notice that no-one has disagreed with the second part of my message. Just as a bit of information IE IS hardcoded into 98, you can remove the icons but it is the file manager/browser, hrmm just like KDE but we don't bitch about that why because it's Linux. Again we do not hold Linux to the same standards we want MS to adhere to and that makes us all look bad.
You are missing my point entirely, what if I wnat to get Corel Linux without WP and they have chosen to bundle it and install it by default ? what then, yes I can un-install it but should I have to ? As usual the Linux fanatics I mentioned in the above post strike quickly, if it was MS you wouldn't be happy you would bitch even more because they were trying to kill of MS Office competition, you have done nothing but prove my point even further
Will Corel release the source code for its major applications?
While Corel recognizes the value of open source development in many areas, and is actively participating in a number of open source efforts such as Wine and development of KDE, the company has no plans to release the source code for its major applications. Corel's major applications contain many features that rely on code licensed from other vendors, with whom the company has a variety of contractual obligations--one of which is to keep their source code private. Corel could not release its application source code without a tremendous amount of development work to isolate the licensed code, and this work would have a significant impact on release schedules.
Corel seems to be jumping on the Linux/Open Source bandwagon as long as it doens't have to release it's "real" products as Open Source, or so that it doesn't effect their release schedules. On top of that they sya if they did then they would not be able to release all of it, I personally doubt these claims and say that Corel should do all or nothing. We are screaming at MS for not releasing their code and then Corel can say this and everyone just accepts it.
Will CLD be available as a standalone or bundled with Corel's applications?
Corel is still in the process of determining whether CLD will be bundled with Corel applications only, or if it will also be available as a standalone product. Corel's objective is to give as many desktop users access to Linux as possible and if there is a demand for a standalone product, the company will certainly investigate the opportunity.
They are actually considering bundling, isn't that one of the reasons we are pissed at MS, or is it OK for a Linux distro to do it ? IMHO we should be upset that they are considering bundling with only their product and not offering a stand alone. I we want to appear to be a coherent community then we must hold all Linux distros to the same standards that we attack MS under, if not then we are nothing but hypocrites and fantics.
I think you are way too paranoid, even if they added a "dumbed-down" set of features and left it compatible with other flavors, I think you would still complain. As much as I hate to say this, Linux does need some OPTIONAL "dumbed-down" features so that the average secratary could make use of it. Red Hat and Mandrake are the only companies making Linux available to the average user, SuSE is trying, but the other distros won't survive unless they make it more accessible to the public. I mean survive in the sense of gaining acceptance in the publics eye.
The "newbies are bad for Linux" attitude does not exist with Red Hat, and that is a great plus. The only reason I still have MS products is that my wife doesn't understand how to use Linux, she doesn't use a computer at her job so she doesn't need to know any more than how to check e-mail and write webpages, MS is easier to set up to do that than Linux. I hate MS and use Linux at the office but my point is Red Hat is making Linux accesseble to the common man and they seem to get is flack for hardcore users, if you don't like Red Hat don't use it, but don't them trying to make a few bucks, they do more promtion for Linux than any three other distros combined. Look at the current tour they are doing. They may not cater to people who are hardcore users but they are doing a good job at promoting Linux and getting press attention and when someone looks at Red Hat they will probably find other distros and look at them. This IPO will get mainstream press attention and that will be good for the Linux community in general. So what if they eventually become another Borg, people will have seen hat there are other choices and the public will be better off in general.
Nobody who spells so badly can be a very good coder
Get real, not everbody who can code can spell, and everybody who can spell can code. I can't spell when I type, but when I code my fingers are trained as to what I want to do, you don't have to know the whole language to code.
There is no doubt he would have been fired for technical reasons had he not quit
How do you there is no doubt about that, do you have information that we don't.
Nope, no internet registration is required, I have been using it about 2 weeks, and due to the fact I am on a Windows machine at work, in two week I know I have started it more than 50 times.
If WinAmp was OSS, I'd probably be able to split the music and voice frequencies into to mp3 files and use the voice samples I've been wanting to use with Acid DJ. I would just go in tinker with code, and press a play/record combo that lets me do that. Anyone actually know if there is something like this, btw?
Actually you can do it with Cool Edit Pro using a 30 band graphic EQ. However there is no way to seperate "voice" and "music" freqs in a file becuase the file is flat and if the voice is close to an instrumnet you'll pull both. So even if Winamp was OSS it wouldn't be able to do what you wanted it to. If you know much about sound editing you'd know that the so called kareoke machines that remove the vox make the rest of the song sound like crap because it messes with the mad range freqs. I love OSS but it doesn't necessatailly make everyhting better.