To be clear, the syntax 'FOO=BAR; export FOO' works just fine on bash, so that can't be the "example right in the story header" you mentioned.
I'm assuming the point was that in bash you can do 'export FOO=bar' rather than having to do 'FOO=bar; export FOO'.
The answer to this is obvious. Just make sure when you write your script that you don't use the things that have been modified in bash.
Any script written for sh should run in bash. When you write your script, just do it on a box with sh rather than bash. If you really want to do it on Linux, just pretend bash is sh and stick to the allowed syntax.
I always thought that they should have sent Emeril to compete on Iron Chef Japanese rather than Bobby Flay. He could have just copied what the other guy did and then "kick it up a notch" to win!;)
What are you talking about? Are you mad? Geez. I really enjoy Iron Chef, but this was just sad. I felt embarrased for everyone involved.
What's with the "sports commentators" sitting in the booth with their yellow jackets and headsets on? There was very little discussion about the preperation of the food, and what there was of it was just pathetic. I like the original Iron Chef because the commentators seem to be very knowledgable about Asian cuisine. I get to see people using ingredients I'm not familiar with.
Why do television producers think that Americans are so stupid that they have to make it look like a sporting event? It's like they're trying to trick people into watching it by masking the cooking component of the show.
Sad, I liked the concept but should have known what was going to happen when I heard that Shatner was going to be involved trying to portray the Chairman. The flamboyant mysterious chairman bit won't work in a show produced in America. It works with the import because... I don't know, but it does.
The plot needs to be altered a bit to remake him into someone that Americans can identify with. Possibly a newly wealthy young.com executive who, after his company went public, decided that food and cooking where his true passion and decided to sell all of his stock the day before the bottom fell out.
Now that he has all this money, he just likes to play. He liked watching Iron Chef on Food Network while getting drunk playing the Iron Chef Drinking Game while home alone on Saturday nights (he's a.com geek, remember?) So, he builds his own incredible "kitchen stadium", hires some truely great chefs that are much more chef than TV personality, gets the head gurus from the Culinary Institue of America and Johnson & Wales to be commentators, and buys time on local public access to air it.;) It would have a lighter feel than the import version, but the cooking would be taken very seriously. He, like his Asian counterpart, spares no expense on anything involved. Basically he'd just be a nice guy who had fun doing what he liked because he could.
Don't you know anything about cooking up a mess of tribbles? Once they've been slaughtered, cleaned, battered, and deep fried their reproduction rate declines drastically.
Ximian has an answer for that: Red Carpet [ximian.com] (usually) works great.
Don't applications have to be added to the Red Carpet database before they show up on people's desktops? What is needed is a simple installation procedure that doesn't require the software to be one of the offerings in Red Carpet (or something like it).
This is going to be almost impossible as long as library dependencies are an issue. I'm no guru, but there has to be some way around this.
Beyond that Linux has much more comprehensive on-line documentation [linuxdoc.org] than Windows, in my estimation.
Could this be because Linux needs more on-line documentation? Most Windows users get their machines with Windows already installed. They work their way through figuring out how to do what they need to do and that's it. They don't really want or need online docs unless they plan on getting in deeper.
About the hardware... Yes, I've seen Windows barf on hardware before. I have also had the same kinds of problems with Linux distrobutions. The important point is, most people would know the path to take to resolve hardware problems within Windows. If the Linux installer doesn't recongnize somebody's hardware, they're pretty much out of luck because they have no idea how to troubleshoot it. I've seen this over an over with (even rather intelligent) people trying to install Linux.
In the ST universe that I normally see on TV, most devices seem to be dedicated to a single use. There is no switching applications. On the more sophisticated devices the interface seems to be audible rather than visual. Why would you need a mouse when you could just tell the computer what to do?
Of course, the voice interface will (probably) never take over as a primary input or navigation system. First of all, it takes longer to describe to the computer what you want it to do than a simple key combination or mouse click. Secondly, could you imagine the noise created by 30 developers and 5 secretaries in their cubicles in one big room all talking to their computers?
No, the keyboard/pointer interface won't be replaced until we can tap the brain for input.
While working, I tend to keep all of my windows maximized, switching between them with alt-tab. It gives me maximum real estate for the app that I am currently concentrating on.
Overlapping windows allows me (if needed) to pop up a smaller window over the app that I'm working on without resizing it.
The only use I can see for running all of your apps in tiny windows is for making cool screenshots of themes.
That really is a good idea. I think for me it would be better to have it on the Scroll lock key, but once it's coded changing the key bindings would be trivial.
I do most of my work with maximized windows. It's what works for me. One thing that really bothers me about gnome is that alt-tab brings each app in focus as you hit tab rather than just allowing me to tab through the available windows to select the icon of the window I want. Maybe there's a way to change this that I've been missing.
This is the point. They went shopping for a more cost effective:stable solution and they came up with Linux.
They could have possibly opted for Windows. So we can say that we are stealing potential sales from Microsoft and slowing it's widespread acceptance as a server OS.
But is that the whole story? Would they have even had to make a decesion like this if there hadn't been a $free alternative? Could the switch to Linux be argued if it cost the same as Solaris? What if Linux and Solaris where expensive, but Windows was free? What would the decision have been then?
Well, it doesn't matter because Linux is $free, Windows isn't, and they obviously had enough trust in it to move many systems over to it before the Christmas rush. That's really saying something.
I heard on a news report yesterday that sailors on the ships by Afghanistan where having door decorating contests.
You have to have something to releive tension and provide a tie back to your homeland, especially on holidays. I wouldn't consider Halloween a major holiday, but I'm sure it helps them mentally.
There's no dialing with RR. It's an always on connection. None of that garbage PPPoE dialup username/password stuff. (anymore) They did have a login screen, but got rid of it mainly to pacify all of the "alternate" OS users who where flocking to broadband.
RR is by far the best broadband I've had. I've had ISDN, DSL from 2 telcos, and @home. The news servers are pretty good, and I average about 15Meg per minute pulling from them. That's a LOT of porn!
Based on my experience with Road Runner, the best time to call for support is late at night (around 2 or 3am). I don't know if I've just been lucky, but there are no hold times and the techs seem to enjoy what they're doing.
As I stated in another response, I've gotten support for both Linux and OpenBSD by calling late at night. I had a guy walk me through setting up networking on the OpenBSD box... I had never tackled it before.
I called during the previous day to see if they could help. The guy kept asking me which version of Windows I was using.
"OpenBSD."
"No sir, like I said, I don't need to know what applications are installed, I just need to know what version of Windows is on your computer. Is it 98?"
"No, I'm running OpenBSD"
"Sir, click on the start button and tell me what it says to the left of the menu."
I am having a problem with BellSouth DSL on one of my client's machines right now. They will support XP, but only if you have an ethernet modem. This would have been my choice anyway, but this guy (the head of the company for one of my contracts) had DSL installed at his house, got the USB version, and bought a new box with XP on it.
BellSouth has beta drivers for USB on XP, but I was told by two techs that they where pretty flakey, if you could get them to work at all, and the best bet would be either "downgrade" to 98 or exchange the modem for an ethernet model.
That's what we did. They say that once the driver is finalized that they will support this configuration. One guy told me they already supported it, but 2 others said not to risk it.
I've gotten support from Road Runner on Linux. I'm pretty sure it isn't official support, though. I even had one tech almost cream himself when I called with an OpenBSD question. He was more than glad to help out.
> I don't see why themes.org or Slashdot should be particularly expensive sites, at least in principle.
I'm assuming that you don't have to write checks for bandwidth and colo services each month. The article about/.'s birthday said they receive 2,000,000 UNIQUE visitors (or ip's) a month. I know I eat up quite a bit of bandwidth here myself.
The article "Do Digital Photos Endanger History" page 1 currently weighs in at ~667K. I know that I open (including reloading articles to see new replies and "slashdot overload" pages 2,3,etc.) story pages about 15 times a day. That's 10Meg a day not including all the (hundreds?) of refreshes of the main page to see when new stories are added.
So, ~10Meg a day, say 25 days a month (to be fair) is ~250Megs a month. Just for me. Now say that out of those 2 million visitors, 100,000 have about the same reading habits as me. I know that most of the people reading/. for years have never posted once, so there are a lot more folks out there than you imagine. That's 25,000Gig a month...
Maybe my numbers are WAY off, but bandwidth isn't free. Nor is the physical space in a facility that could provide that much bandwidth. Not to mention the hardware that has to be behind it to generate pages from the database.
My point is, it can't be cheap. I certainly hope that/. goes to a enhanced services pay model before they do anything stupid like selling out or shutting down.
The problem is, I bet a lot of the younger folks on here (listen to me, I'm OLD at 31!) never learned to work in DOS. They got their feet wet in Windows. That's the only reason I can explain all the comments talking about how GUI's are better.
Give me a CLI any day. The only reason to even have X on a box is for viewing/creating graphics and to make web browsing a bit nicer. Anything else is just superfluous.
Back in the good old days of DOS when I was sysadmin at a large hospital, I could make those machines do exactly what I wanted them to do. I was master of my domain. No registry or dlls to screw with. We had Direct Access 5 or NetMenu to launch the network apps. DOS pegasus mail served from the NetWare servers. It was great. Using nkeypoke to poke values into the keyboard buffer from a script so users wouldn't mess things up. Network information screens created in TheDraw brought up in login scripts...
I know all about system policies and all that garbage in Windows, but you don't control the box, Windows does.
This is exactly what Total Recorder does (in Windows) for audio. It adds itself as the primary audio driver for the system. All audio directs to it, then it forwards it to the driver for your sound card.
The upshot to this is that you can get Total Recorder to record this stream in just about any format at whatever rate you want.
I use this for the audio books I get from Audible. The books come down in some encrypted format that requires a special plugin for Windows media player or RealPlayer, or you can push them to an Audible enabled device (like the Rio).
Before going to bed, I start the book playing in media player with total recorder saving it out as an mp3 as it goes. The next morning I convert the mp3 to wav and burn it to a standard audio cd.
This type of circumvention is very easy as long as the stream has to be decrypted somewhere on the motherboard. Having the stream sent encoded to the card and having it decrypt it is another matter. I'm sure that someone will come up with a way to decrypt it.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, and I guess I'll never be able to complete my "Read by the author" collection of HH books on mp3.
I would do the same thing. Unfortunately, nobody would bother looking through my stuff, so I don't have to worry about it.
To be clear, the syntax 'FOO=BAR; export FOO' works just fine on bash, so that can't be the "example right in the story header" you mentioned.
I'm assuming the point was that in bash you can do 'export FOO=bar' rather than having to do 'FOO=bar; export FOO'.
The answer to this is obvious. Just make sure when you write your script that you don't use the things that have been modified in bash.
Any script written for sh should run in bash. When you write your script, just do it on a box with sh rather than bash. If you really want to do it on Linux, just pretend bash is sh and stick to the allowed syntax.
I always thought that they should have sent Emeril to compete on Iron Chef Japanese rather than Bobby Flay. He could have just copied what the other guy did and then "kick it up a notch" to win! ;)
Not too bad an adaptation, IMO
.com executive who, after his company went public, decided that food and cooking where his true passion and decided to sell all of his stock the day before the bottom fell out.
.com geek, remember?) So, he builds his own incredible "kitchen stadium", hires some truely great chefs that are much more chef than TV personality, gets the head gurus from the Culinary Institue of America and Johnson & Wales to be commentators, and buys time on local public access to air it. ;) It would have a lighter feel than the import version, but the cooking would be taken very seriously. He, like his Asian counterpart, spares no expense on anything involved. Basically he'd just be a nice guy who had fun doing what he liked because he could.
What are you talking about? Are you mad? Geez. I really enjoy Iron Chef, but this was just sad. I felt embarrased for everyone involved.
What's with the "sports commentators" sitting in the booth with their yellow jackets and headsets on? There was very little discussion about the preperation of the food, and what there was of it was just pathetic. I like the original Iron Chef because the commentators seem to be very knowledgable about Asian cuisine. I get to see people using ingredients I'm not familiar with.
Why do television producers think that Americans are so stupid that they have to make it look like a sporting event? It's like they're trying to trick people into watching it by masking the cooking component of the show.
Sad, I liked the concept but should have known what was going to happen when I heard that Shatner was going to be involved trying to portray the Chairman. The flamboyant mysterious chairman bit won't work in a show produced in America. It works with the import because... I don't know, but it does.
The plot needs to be altered a bit to remake him into someone that Americans can identify with. Possibly a newly wealthy young
Now that he has all this money, he just likes to play. He liked watching Iron Chef on Food Network while getting drunk playing the Iron Chef Drinking Game while home alone on Saturday nights (he's a
Don't you know anything about cooking up a mess of tribbles? Once they've been slaughtered, cleaned, battered, and deep fried their reproduction rate declines drastically.
Ximian has an answer for that: Red Carpet [ximian.com] (usually) works great.
Don't applications have to be added to the Red Carpet database before they show up on people's desktops? What is needed is a simple installation procedure that doesn't require the software to be one of the offerings in Red Carpet (or something like it).
This is going to be almost impossible as long as library dependencies are an issue. I'm no guru, but there has to be some way around this.
Beyond that Linux has much more comprehensive on-line documentation [linuxdoc.org] than Windows, in my estimation.
Could this be because Linux needs more on-line documentation? Most Windows users get their machines with Windows already installed. They work their way through figuring out how to do what they need to do and that's it. They don't really want or need online docs unless they plan on getting in deeper.
About the hardware... Yes, I've seen Windows barf on hardware before. I have also had the same kinds of problems with Linux distrobutions. The important point is, most people would know the path to take to resolve hardware problems within Windows. If the Linux installer doesn't recongnize somebody's hardware, they're pretty much out of luck because they have no idea how to troubleshoot it. I've seen this over an over with (even rather intelligent) people trying to install Linux.
It's amazing that you posted without reading the story...
The tech is old, and today's political scene has nothing to do with it.
This was done back in 1966. The information was only recently declassified.
I was wondering about this myself. I know I certainly liked him as Miracle Max in Princess Bride.
I'm not a Star Trek junkie, so I may be wrong...
In the ST universe that I normally see on TV, most devices seem to be dedicated to a single use. There is no switching applications. On the more sophisticated devices the interface seems to be audible rather than visual. Why would you need a mouse when you could just tell the computer what to do?
Of course, the voice interface will (probably) never take over as a primary input or navigation system. First of all, it takes longer to describe to the computer what you want it to do than a simple key combination or mouse click. Secondly, could you imagine the noise created by 30 developers and 5 secretaries in their cubicles in one big room all talking to their computers?
No, the keyboard/pointer interface won't be replaced until we can tap the brain for input.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'd really like to know... How does using nonoverlapping windows decrease the amount of time you use your mouse?
I switch windows all the time using the alt-tab combination. What am I missing here?
While working, I tend to keep all of my windows maximized, switching between them with alt-tab. It gives me maximum real estate for the app that I am currently concentrating on.
Overlapping windows allows me (if needed) to pop up a smaller window over the app that I'm working on without resizing it.
The only use I can see for running all of your apps in tiny windows is for making cool screenshots of themes.
That really is a good idea. I think for me it would be better to have it on the Scroll lock key, but once it's coded changing the key bindings would be trivial.
I do most of my work with maximized windows. It's what works for me. One thing that really bothers me about gnome is that alt-tab brings each app in focus as you hit tab rather than just allowing me to tab through the available windows to select the icon of the window I want. Maybe there's a way to change this that I've been missing.
This is the point. They went shopping for a more cost effective:stable solution and they came up with Linux.
They could have possibly opted for Windows. So we can say that we are stealing potential sales from Microsoft and slowing it's widespread acceptance as a server OS.
But is that the whole story? Would they have even had to make a decesion like this if there hadn't been a $free alternative? Could the switch to Linux be argued if it cost the same as Solaris? What if Linux and Solaris where expensive, but Windows was free? What would the decision have been then?
Well, it doesn't matter because Linux is $free, Windows isn't, and they obviously had enough trust in it to move many systems over to it before the Christmas rush. That's really saying something.
I heard on a news report yesterday that sailors on the ships by Afghanistan where having door decorating contests.
You have to have something to releive tension and provide a tie back to your homeland, especially on holidays. I wouldn't consider Halloween a major holiday, but I'm sure it helps them mentally.
More power to them.
There's no dialing with RR. It's an always on connection. None of that garbage PPPoE dialup username/password stuff. (anymore) They did have a login screen, but got rid of it mainly to pacify all of the "alternate" OS users who where flocking to broadband.
RR is by far the best broadband I've had. I've had ISDN, DSL from 2 telcos, and @home. The news servers are pretty good, and I average about 15Meg per minute pulling from them. That's a LOT of porn!
Based on my experience with Road Runner, the best time to call for support is late at night (around 2 or 3am). I don't know if I've just been lucky, but there are no hold times and the techs seem to enjoy what they're doing.
As I stated in another response, I've gotten support for both Linux and OpenBSD by calling late at night. I had a guy walk me through setting up networking on the OpenBSD box... I had never tackled it before.
I called during the previous day to see if they could help. The guy kept asking me which version of Windows I was using.
"OpenBSD."
"No sir, like I said, I don't need to know what applications are installed, I just need to know what version of Windows is on your computer. Is it 98?"
"No, I'm running OpenBSD"
"Sir, click on the start button and tell me what it says to the left of the menu."
Geez.
I am having a problem with BellSouth DSL on one of my client's machines right now. They will support XP, but only if you have an ethernet modem. This would have been my choice anyway, but this guy (the head of the company for one of my contracts) had DSL installed at his house, got the USB version, and bought a new box with XP on it.
BellSouth has beta drivers for USB on XP, but I was told by two techs that they where pretty flakey, if you could get them to work at all, and the best bet would be either "downgrade" to 98 or exchange the modem for an ethernet model.
That's what we did. They say that once the driver is finalized that they will support this configuration. One guy told me they already supported it, but 2 others said not to risk it.
I've gotten support from Road Runner on Linux. I'm pretty sure it isn't official support, though. I even had one tech almost cream himself when I called with an OpenBSD question. He was more than glad to help out.
> I don't see why themes.org or Slashdot should be particularly expensive sites, at least in principle.
/.'s birthday said they receive 2,000,000 UNIQUE visitors (or ip's) a month. I know I eat up quite a bit of bandwidth here myself.
/. for years have never posted once, so there are a lot more folks out there than you imagine. That's 25,000Gig a month...
/. goes to a enhanced services pay model before they do anything stupid like selling out or shutting down.
I'm assuming that you don't have to write checks for bandwidth and colo services each month. The article about
The article "Do Digital Photos Endanger History" page 1 currently weighs in at ~667K. I know that I open (including reloading articles to see new replies and "slashdot overload" pages 2,3,etc.) story pages about 15 times a day. That's 10Meg a day not including all the (hundreds?) of refreshes of the main page to see when new stories are added.
So, ~10Meg a day, say 25 days a month (to be fair) is ~250Megs a month. Just for me. Now say that out of those 2 million visitors, 100,000 have about the same reading habits as me. I know that most of the people reading
Maybe my numbers are WAY off, but bandwidth isn't free. Nor is the physical space in a facility that could provide that much bandwidth. Not to mention the hardware that has to be behind it to generate pages from the database.
My point is, it can't be cheap. I certainly hope that
DOS was your friend, admit it, even Linux Lovers.
The problem is, I bet a lot of the younger folks on here (listen to me, I'm OLD at 31!) never learned to work in DOS. They got their feet wet in Windows. That's the only reason I can explain all the comments talking about how GUI's are better.
Give me a CLI any day. The only reason to even have X on a box is for viewing/creating graphics and to make web browsing a bit nicer. Anything else is just superfluous.
Back in the good old days of DOS when I was sysadmin at a large hospital, I could make those machines do exactly what I wanted them to do. I was master of my domain. No registry or dlls to screw with. We had Direct Access 5 or NetMenu to launch the network apps. DOS pegasus mail served from the NetWare servers. It was great. Using nkeypoke to poke values into the keyboard buffer from a script so users wouldn't mess things up. Network information screens created in TheDraw brought up in login scripts...
I know all about system policies and all that garbage in Windows, but you don't control the box, Windows does.
Sure, if they're all in one directory.
/s
Show me a graphical command that does the same thing as:
del c:\*.obj
Sounds like a good reason to have the company pay for a road trip. Need any help?
This is exactly what Total Recorder does (in Windows) for audio. It adds itself as the primary audio driver for the system. All audio directs to it, then it forwards it to the driver for your sound card.
The upshot to this is that you can get Total Recorder to record this stream in just about any format at whatever rate you want.
I use this for the audio books I get from Audible. The books come down in some encrypted format that requires a special plugin for Windows media player or RealPlayer, or you can push them to an Audible enabled device (like the Rio).
Before going to bed, I start the book playing in media player with total recorder saving it out as an mp3 as it goes. The next morning I convert the mp3 to wav and burn it to a standard audio cd.
This type of circumvention is very easy as long as the stream has to be decrypted somewhere on the motherboard. Having the stream sent encoded to the card and having it decrypt it is another matter. I'm sure that someone will come up with a way to decrypt it.
Yeah, but did the shutdown actually save the processor? Probably not. They just didn't stick around long enough and zoom in on the smoke.