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Road Runner Doesn't Do XP
PerlStalker writes: "Internet News has an article up that mentions, among other things, that Road Runner (owned primarily by AOL/TW) will not support XP. From the article: 'Road Runner, the second-largest cable Internet service provider (ISP) in the nation with more than 1.4 million subscribers, does not support the controversial new operating system (OS) for its customers and will not support its use on the cable network.'" Note that this doesn't stop customers from connecting to Road Runner from XP systems, but until their staff is trained specifically, Road Runner won't help them with technical problems arising from that combination.
Question of the day? Is RoadRunner Planning on actually training their staff? My guess is yes. But if not, is this an attempt to slow Microsoft? I'm doubting that one, but it would be very cool to see someone else thats very large battle the Microsoft Empire!
Can all fish swim?
yesh
Tech support just won't help you if you tell them you're running Windows XP.
...I have Road Runner in the KC area and it didn't even hiccup when I put XP on my computer.
.5 clue anyway.
Now their crappy application that they give you that you can use to manage your email accounts and such doesn't work under it, but it didn't work under 2000 either, so thats not too shocking. Its basically useless if you have
So they won't give you tech support until the get their staff trained on XP. If you are smart enough to use a computer without drooling, I don't think you will have a lot of problems....
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
Very few organizations of any kind will support XP right out of the chute. Hell, there are plenty that still don't officially support Windows 2000.
So what's the big deal? Us Linux users have been there for quite some time, and we're still alive. :)
I'll give anyone 10-1 odds XP is supported within six monthes. They probably just don't want tech support calls going to them about OS upgrade issues that should be going to Microsoft.
XP being "controversial" doesn't have anything to do with it.
The techs just need time to train according to the article.
-Kevin
Road runner, he's gonna slashdot you.
...but I get the reps to tell me where to click, and translate accordingly.
AOL, you couldn't have done it to a nicer monopoly!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
I'm not sure why this is news though. It's a new OS. It'll take some time for support to get used to it, and figure out what problems people are having. It's not like they're denying its existence and will never support it.
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
Road Runner doesn't "Support" Linux either, but that hasn't stopped me.
Frankly, I am tired of hearing what operating systems are supported by Internet service providers. I am going to install DSL on a Linux box tomorrow night -- knowing that others have this working in the area, and was told by technical support with Southwestern Bell that this is impossible. Impossible! They did not say they wouldn't be able to support me -- they simply lied and said it would not work. How many folks with Macs or Windows XP are being told that they will not be able to use services? I am fairly sure if you pop in the CD you got from your ISP with Netscape 4.05 or IE 3.0 everything will work just fine on XP.
Click here or here.
I have no clue why this is news. It took months and months for my ISP (SWBell) to "support" Windows 2000, a long time after it was released. Their client software wouldn't work on Win2k, and even though the maker had released a new version of the software, their staff wasn't trained on it. So oddly, if you could find the newer software by tracking down the manufacturer (who gave it away free), it would work fine.
This is really no big deal. Lots of companies won't support XP yet. Even Symantec's pcAnywhere doesn't support XP yet. It's like this with every new operating system, and the way it will probably always be.
What's your damage, Heather?
These are the same guys who won't support you if you let on there is a second NIC in your computer or you are running anything but Win 95/98/ME or Win2k Pro.
EEEDIOTS. The funny thing is if you sit there on tech support with them and lie about your configuration they help you just fine.
I ran in to the same problem just recently. Not only does RR not support Win XP, but the reps have been told to effectivly 'hang up' on anyone using Linux.
/etc/hosts file contains all the possible combinations of host names they might assign me. Each one points back to 127.0.0.1 so that I can start Gnome and XFS.
They recently misconfigured their DHCP server here in KC, MO. It took me six hours of arguing to finally get to someone who understand what DHCP was and that it had nothing to do with which client was connecting. They temporarilly fixed the problem, but this last weekend, they went back to the old way forcing me to patch around the probelm without help from RR.
My
They told me it was my problem for choosing an alternative opperating system, not theirs.
If Micro$oft keeps wants to release operating systems based on it's own profit needs. It will have to expect others will only adopt based on on their own needs and abilities. I hope more companies put XP support on the back burner. I would rather wait untill support is decent rather than just available.
By definition, a government has no conscience. Sometimes it has a policy, but nothing more. - Albert Camus
Maybe I've been asleep, but what exactly is so controversial about Windows XP?
I thought XP allowed you to network computers together straight out of the box? This is the first operating system to support home networking, right? Road Runner shouldn't have to provide technical support because Microsoft makes the Internet so easy!
Yes ---- This is sarcasm for those who are "sense of humor" challenged.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine drawn beyond the lines of reason. Push the envelope. Watch it bend.
Road Runner doesn't support using Linux officially either, but here I sit, writing this on my Linux box on guess what..... a road runner cable modem. Yes XP is controversial but it's basically a dressed up version of windows 2000 and the networking setup is basically unchanged. Road Runner uses DHCP only, so if you have a network card that's recognized by XP, install it, hook up the cable modem, setup TCP/IP for DHCP and you're up and running. This is not newsworthy. All it means is that cable modem installers need time to be "trained" to setup networking on XP boxes. XP is unsupported for now, just like Linux. It doesn't mean it won't work.
When I was running Linux back in the day, @Home would not support it. When I was running Win2k long before it came out, @Home would not support it. Now that I am running XP, I doubt many ISP's will support it, but in the end, it will be supported because that is what consumers want and if Road Runner or @Home or who ever does not adapt, they die.
...but my local roadrunner said that they'll do their best to help. They say that if you follow NT instruction, it works fine, and they already have a large userbase of XP users without any problems.
Linux, on the other hand, isn't supported, and most of their techies have no idea how to help out. Not that its tough (standard DHCP connetion), but the average user would be better off with XP than Linux right now (sorry if that sounds trollish, but I don't think this article is "news". Anything that can hurt MS in the least is being published now-a-days).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
thats about the biggest joke ever...to say they give piss-poor support for anything is too much of a compliment.
All ISPs which I am familiar with say the same about Linux, *BSD, or any other kind of operating system which isn't Windows 95/98 or MacOS. It just means that they can say "sorry, we don't support your system" whenever there is a problem and you run an "exotic" system even when the problem happens to be within their system.
I tend not to reveal that I run a non-supported system when I report problems...
Do they support win2K? If so, then there's no reason why they can't support WinXP too.
When I used to work in the "real" world, this would happen all the time. Brand new OSes are almost never supported directly. They'll eventually support it.
By the way, there's an awesome driver called RASPPPOE which allows you to use PPPOE on Win2k/XP/etc. as if it were a regular network interface. No clutter, no dialing manager, nothing. I highly recommend it, and it probably works with rr on XP.
Non-Official support is mainly a way so that if they can't help you, it's not their fault. It dosen't mean they _wont_ help. (save for the time you get the ass-much tech support guy on the other side who keeps insisting that you need to reinstall your TCP/IP stack because thats what his computer tells him you need to do, but thats another rant)
-paul
do they support linux or any other unix? no.
will they ever? probably not.
does this mean that linux is bad? no.
so why does this mean that windows xp is bad?
i have xp and i love it.
... that Microsoft was an investor in Road Runner, but the "Company Profile" on Road Runner's Web site says they're "owned and operated by Time Warner Cable" with no mention of other investors. Did Microsoft cash out?
It amazes me that anyone would connect a home computer to the network without a firewall. RoadRunner works fine talking to a firewall and once behind that, you can put anything you want.
What's surprising is not that RoadRunner staff won't interface to XP, but that they won't do installations with a firewall in place. Every time they want to debug something, they ask me to disconnect my firewall and attach my machine directly to the net. Of course, I don't. Fortunately, in my experience, the main thing that goes wrong with RoadRunner is that it "gets confused" and usually just "unplugging your cable modem for twenty minutes" has fixed me every time. Sigh.
Kent M Pitman
Philosopher, Technologist, Writer
road runner uses established standards... them not supporting xp should have as much of an effect on us techies as them not supporting Linux (which they do not).
I don't see how battling Microsoft by giving shitty support benefits anyone. How is a consumer helped if his new computer doesn't work out of the box with his current Internet connection?
Furthermore....
"Linux to battle Microsoft by trying to be difficult to install and hard to use."
Doesn't quite make sense.
sort of reminds me of a story of a guy that ran Linux and needed general TCP/IP info to connect to the internet. So he calls up his ISP to get the info and they refuse to give it to him because he uses Linux. Anyway, no serious ISP would go any (long) length of time not supporting XP.
This journalist spoke with two people at AOL/TW, and he got differing opinions. AOL/TW knows that they will need to support XP in order to keep (and expand) their customer base. I highly doubt that they've sat around for the last 6 months and said, "We're going to publicly say that we won't support XP... That'll stop Microsoft's evil scheme to stay #1 on the Internet!" They just haven't finalized the support docs for their staff yet. Big deal, XP has been out for less than a week. If you go out and upgrade over night, you should expect that some things won't be supported yet.
My opinion is that this journalist just wanted to try and stir up more competition between AOL and MS. This article doesn't say that Roadrunner won't work on XP, it just says that they can't help if an end user has a problem. I've spoken with ISP techs that can't help me out with Windows 2000! Try to get Linux support from 90% of ISPs out there! No chance. This article is not worth the read.
XP? When you say "XP", what are you referring to? Word XP? Excel XP? Office XP? Or perhaps you're referring to Windows XP -- in which case, why, you should say "Windows XP".
This is *almost* as bad as referring to Windows 2000 as "2000". Whenever someone tells me that so-and-so "doesn't run under 2000", I tell them that it's a good thing 2000 is over.
begin 644
It would be news if _ANY_ ISP _DID_ offer support for a completely new OS before even knowing if it has unresolvible conflicts with their system.
I have just installed Win XP and I believe that they will offer support very quickly as it's network services are almost the exact same as its predecessor (Win2000).
EndersGame
I work at a broadband ISP and until we get XP installed onto a machine (god I hope it aint mine), we are not going to support it either.
I've already seen quite a few people not so tech-savvy rush out and install this, and half of them call us up expecting we will walk them through the process of installing it in the first place!
How can you help someone out with something you don't even have in the first place?
Fuck Ajit Pai
It doesn't stop them. In fact it works fine, and you ignorant staffers know that. So why are you posting this crap in the first place? Oh wait -- almost forgot where I was.
caller: "i can't connect."
tech support: "what os are you using?"
caller: "windows xp."
tech support: "sorry. you're fucked."
However, XP upgrades seamlessly and the cable modem is detected and all IP addresses are resolved without any need for expertise on the user's part. Sounds like Roadrunner's just covering their ignorant asses.
This is typical of RR. They've done the same thing with Win98, NT, 2K, etc. It's not that
it won't work, but that they don't 'support' it via their tech support services. Which pisses
a LOT of people off ("You mean you don't support XP? F*&^*%*$ M*%*%$*%* Why not?").
Oh, how I don't miss the tech support days...
I don't see how this is news worthy. Sure, RR hasn't trained their staff yet, so they don't support it. It's new software, these things take time. Why this warrants a story I do not understand.
I've had a Linux router working on my RR connection for months, and one of my machines is running XP RC2. As long as you can get an IP from DHCP and pass IP packets to a gateway, there's nothing else to support.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
Come on, is it "stuff that matters"?
this happens every time new OS is released with every big ISP. for @Home: this way it was with Win2000, same happens with XP now.
nothing new, they just need additional time.
I mean really, does it matter?
/. community does) it couldnt matter if you were running an obscure OS written by the rubber people from the rain forests. isp tech support is a joke.
in my entire life i have never needed to call tech support and ask anything aside from "is the network down?"
i've had dozens of tech reps trying to convince me that certain problems were on my end, some of which to i insisted that it wasnt, gotten the runnaround, and then he/she "found out" that a reuter was down in my area. some i have played along with, when they told me to do this and that, i replied "yep ok" while playing solitaire, and after all my pretend changes i made, 30 min or so later, my connection worked. the point is, if you know what you're doing and know your computer fairly well (as i assume the majority of the
It seems very convenient that a cable ISP owned primarily by AOL Time Warner, (NYSE:AOL) the largest ISP in the world and a direct competitor with the Microsoft Corp. (the second-largest) for dial up and broadband Internet users worldwide, does not support the software of the most popular OS ever assembled.
----
Arent they jumping the gun a little bit. I would think it would take a little longer to classify XP as the most popular OS ever assembled. The most marketed OS ever assembled maybe, but most popular?. I think thats somewhat premature
Supported == Known to Work
Not Supported != Does not Work
This is a boring sig
I've yet to receive any assistance from AT&T's tech-support -- I'll get a blinking WAN connect-light (which means the modem ain't talking to their network), and invariably, they don't want to let me just report a freakin' outage, they want to talk me through reinstalling my network drivers. (Uhm, my modem's connected to a freebsd natbox). Gah, they drive me nuts. Thankfully, the service is awesome 97% of the time.
Might as well say Windows 2000, its networking is the same. Why put fuel on the fire and tell them your running an unsupported product.
I dont tell the phone monkeys im running linux, I say yup, running windows, whats the IPs/settings.
In fact, I have to lie about what browser im running, what OS im running etc... No monoploy, Uh-huh...
I'm a longtime roadrunner subscriber, and i can tell you from experience that RR is not very quick to support anything that isn't windows9x or MacOS 8+. They've been nothing but a pain in the ass every time i've contacted them for support, especially with Linux questions.
However, somewhat to roadrunner's advantage, XP seems to integrate pretty flawlessly with the service. I did an install a few days ago that went about as smoothly as anyone could possibly hope for. Definitely a feather in XP's cap, but maybe a stroke of good luck for the RR support people.
I'm out in New York City and I installed XP yesterday to check it out. It didn't have any problems connecting with my Road Runner service. Road Runner seems to be the most popular broadband ISP service in this city since Verizon DSL has had so many problems with their rollout and customer support. I wonder what would happen if Road Runner decided to block XP altogether? It's a bit of a double standard for AOL/Time-Warner, thoght, because both they and Microsoft seem to be locked in a battle to control 'gatekeeper' authority to the internet; to continue convincing the masses that somehow their 'internet' is better than their competitors'. /. before, but while the giants like AOL and MSN are duking it out for control, is there any room for the little guy to show that there is value in connecting without a gatekeeper and using ISPs that don't put a veil over the internet? I'm sick to death of hearing "AOL 7.0 is SO easy!", "I love it when an Instant Message (tm) pops up!", and "Goodbye stamps!", every time there's a commercial break on CNN. What can we do to show the non-tech-saavy American that they are being duped?
It's been tossed around on
I'm running a wireless hub spoofing my original PC's MAC address to make the cable modem happy and dodge paying them for multiple IP addresses, and running three PCs behind it: the original box now running W2K, my 12-year-old's WinME box and my Dell laptop running RH7.2 over the wireless. They don't care as long as I'm not trying to run a server up the connection; they just don't want to hear service calls they aren't set up for.
Here's a mail message that came from Richard B. Johnson (root@chaos.analogic.com) on the LKML less than a week ago, which I thought was interesting:
Don't sweat the petty things. But do pet the sweaty things.
Does this mean that the RR sales staff will tell you that you can't sign up for RR if you're not running on of their supported OS's? They do this with Linux currently, I basically told them that I run Linux and that it is really none of their business what OS I run and that I didn't expect them to "support" my OS, but I did expect them to support their network. I really wish they would lose the whole supported operating system BS.
What is pirate software? Software for inventory of stolen treasure?
They do reimburse you for days that you miss and don't argue with you really (at least our local office doesn't).
As for the non-support of XP, it doesn't suprise me. I'm running OSX and I'd be willing to bet they don't support that either just too new for both platforms. I don't think it's an AOL spite thing (yes, I am aware of the past).
One last gripe. At one point, I ordered 2 IP's. I wasn't running a router and needed a second IP so I just used a hub with the 2nd ordered IP. I has having issues not having one of the IP addresses show up and I called. They said we sell the 2nd IP but we don't support it. They just support from the modem to the computer.
But customer support is customer support (don't you just love when you call CS and YOU teach the specialist something?). It's a shame that we have come to expect shitty CS.
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Spam subject of the moment: Offshore account secrets -nashville disrupt
So much for the apparently non intrusive and easy internet product activation ;D (except on roadrunner:)
heh
You call is currently in a queue... Please hold while we activate your product
(30 days later)
You call is currently in a queue... Please hold while we activate your product Bzzt. times up.
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
It's very typical for companies to not support a new or different OS when it comes out. It's got nothing to do with ill feelings and everything to do with training. Most support desks will not put a lot of effort into training their reps on a new OS until it's proven there is a demand for the support. I used to work for a helpdesk that wouldn't support Win98 when it came out, even though it was very similar to 95. It was just a matter of liability and training.
If XP takes off and becomes commonplace, they'll end up supporting it. It just takes time. I've seen companies that swore they'd never support Linux turn around a couple years later and start supporting it. The rule is if supporting it makes a dramatic impact on customer satisfaction, they'll do it.
Electronic Frontier Foundation for online civil rights information
They don't even support Outlook... You think their $7 per hour phone support guys are gonna support XP or Linux???
Just because I AM paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get me.
this raises the notion that in the future, we could see some serious corporate warfare... If, perhaps AOL/TW were to decide to actually *block* XP users - some brutal choices would be made pretty quickly... and I doubt that RoadRunner has enough leverage to scare people away from XP. Instead, people would just find another ISP.
Now, OTOH, M$ has enough muscle and monopoly power to prevent XP users from using RoadRunner without detrimental effects to their userbase.
This would be the true test of the strength of their monopolies. Viciously attack another monopoly, and see who retreats.
- passion
"Even Symantec's pcAnywhere doesn't support XP yet"
.zip is built into the windows shell now. :)
Why bother supporting an operating system that has built-in terminal services 10x better than the product you're currently selling? PcAnywhere is gonna disappear soon when everyone is running XP... same with Winzip, considering
When I was a lad, I did tech support for a browser company (not Microsoft -- the other one). We usually had one or two machines and whatever OS we felt like using or most often supported. Just because XP came out last week doesn't mean a support company would have purchased and supported it by then or even by the following month. In fact, if you find a technician who can test a product he's supporting you on, on a new OS - it's probably his own copy or one he's pirated out of frustration that his company wouldn't get him a good copy (the fact that almost all OS installations in technical support groups are pirated is another issue).
Christ, before the tech can support an end user on the OS, he has to be able to test it himself and get familiar with it. Before he can do that, he has to be able to install it. Before he can install it, he has to either (in the best of situations) wait until someone gives him the okay to support it and know that their own help-desk will support it (in case of network problems, hardware problems, etc) or (in the worst situations) wait for someone from their own IT department to physically install it for them, as if they were a little baby. Before they can do that installation, they (the helpdesk) has to become familiar with it and install it, which itself requires someone else to become familiar with it and authorize the helpdesk to do it. And before *that* person makes that decision, they have to get authorization and funding to purchase it and go ahead with the deployment project.
Then, of course, there's the fact that someone has to QA the product on XP. Usually, the current existing versions of a product will not (and never will be) QA'd and certified or supported on XP. They'll have to wait until the next version of the product is released and QA (usually over strained and overloaded to begin with) will try to verify that stuff works on XP and that any bugs found are fixed.
Eventually, the tech will be given the green light to get the XP media installation from somewhere in the company, install the product, get used to it and support it.
But just because the product came out yesterday doesn't mean they're going to support it today. ANd, honest, you shouldn't expect that.
Maybe I'm spoiled by a great ISP, maybe I'm missing the point. Once TCP/IP leaves your NIC and hits the network, does it matter what OS you are running?? So long as your OS can grab a valid IP address from your connection device (cable/DSL/whatever), your ISP shouldn't care what OS you are running!
Do RoadRunner and others REQUIRE some proprietary software? If so, what does this do, and can't you hack around it?
I think my ISP gave me a version of Netscape 3 a long time ago when I was still doing DialUp, they haven't given me anything except great service since!
I recently had my job description changed so that I could stay as far away from Windows as possible at my workplace. The job description was prepended by one very simple four letter word. It now reads "Unix System Support".
I used to work for a cable company, and I was a cable modem tech support rep. (We all have part-time jobs while in college.) We didn't support Windows 2000 when it first came out either. In fact, I don't think they still don't support Windows 2000.
Cable carriers are relatively new to the idea of computer support. It will be a while before they realize that they actually have to train their staff when new OSes come out. The carrier I worked for provided absolutely no technical training at all. What you walked in the door with, is what you got. So they obviously tried to hire only people who could already perform the job, and then gave them basic training on the customer database and trouble-ticket software. Oh, I almost forgot, they gave us a piece of paper that outlined the steps required to identify a modem that needed a truck roll. It was pretty basic. Unplug modem, wait 30 seconds, plug back in, wait 1 minute, check light patterns, etc.
The point is they haven't had to train staff on supporting new OSes yet. They've been lucky thus far, as Windows 2000 can be brushed off as a 'business OS that residential service providers shouldn't have to support', but XP is a different animal. It is a home user OS. They're going to have to train their personel. I'm just curious to see how long they try to get by with what they have before they cave and fund the training.
I called Rogers in Canada (Ontario) for help with a connection problem from a machine with Windows XP on it, and even though the problem had nothing to do with Windows XP, they refused to help me because I was using an unsupported operating system.
Funny thing is, I called back a few days later, and the guy helped me. I mentioned the earlier call and he told me that they weren't going to support XP, but then Future Shop (a big PC retail chain in Canada) started shipping PCs bundled with the Rogers service and Windows XP.. and they had to start supporting it.
He said they got a few sheets of paper with some screenshots and that was it - limited support, but still, better than being told to go away.
Funny thing is, XP's TCP/IP support is fairly well set up to help the tech support guys - if you go into the properties for the network connection there's a tab that's got a summary of all the connection's settings and a "Repair" button that resets the interface and renews the DHCP lease..
- Steve
Why do people call mediaone for OS support anyways? Only time they should call is when the ****** cable modem lights don't come on. Which if I may add is a problem that seriously plagues the service.
I have ATT's @Home service, and I wouldn't look to them for help on much of anything. The techs I've dealt with have very specific scripts on how to make things work; any deviation and you're on your own.
But, I never saw that story. When did Slashdot go from being "News for Nerds" to "News for Linux Nerds that have an ax to grind with Microsoft"?
Who makes up this shit. I've never had any problems with any O/S on RoadRunner. Thank god they dont use fuckin PPPoE like SWBell.
There isn't some horrible conspiracy - it's just that they have to test XP and make sure support's ready to guide people through it (as was mentioned in the newspost, but I don't think immediately gathered).
It may have a lot of similarities to Windows 2000, but strictly speaking the GUI is pretty different. I work tech support, and we sometimes have problems even getting people to the Run command - imagine what it will be like when you have to check if someone's using the XP or classic Start menu (so certain icons are in one place but not the other), whether they're using the simplified control panel or not... you get the idea.
There's also the problem of the code base - it's not going to be the same as for a 2000 user (and certainly not a 9x user). At work we've had people come in and complain of a mysterious slowdown, and then mention "oh, this happened just after I installed XP." They don't know if your hardware drivers might be poor for 2000/XP, whether it's something in the TCP/IP stack, or even just the drain on the OS from all the eye candy.
From what I've heard they may well have full-on support in about 30 days (this may change), but I don't think anyone here should accuse them of malice in that regard (now, the quality of support in a particular tier is a different matter...)
I've never had any trouble with RR on an "unsupported" OS. The install tech noticed that I was using Linux but didn't say much about it. I did have to reboot to Windows 98 for the install.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
PcAnywhere is gonna disappear soon when everyone is running XP... same with Winzip, considering .zip is built into the windows shell now. :)
.zip has been built into the shell since Windows Me, and Winzip has continued to thrive since that PoS was released. Also, Winzip does many things the Me shell extension, and I would assume the XP shell extension don't. ie - Breaking apart to multiple files, extensive options with directories, encryptiong/password protection, creating self extracting .exes, etc etc etc.
Au contraire,
"This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
I've been on RR for a year-and-a-half now, and they've never supported any of my operating systems (Linux and Win2K). Of course, the only tech support I've asked for involved a dead line, and that has nothing to do with my OS.
RR support is designed for people slightly more savvy than your average AOL user; they expect questions about setting up DHCP, or changing the browser's homepage. Frankly, anyone running Win2K, XP, or Linux should be smart enough not to need hand-holding by RR's staff.
All about me
/. posts anything just because it has the word 'microsoft' in it.
Since they say the wont help you with a problem if you are running XP, I have to ask...what happens if its THEIR problem.
/renew?"
When I moved into my house last year, I got road runner installed. When the install tech set it up, everything worked fine right off the bat, but he said (since I used the self install option) I would still need to call their tech support and register the serial # and Mac Address of the modem and/or my NIC (cant remember which).
That night I call up their tech support give them the info, they "put it into the computer", and say thank you very much. Everything is fine and dandy.
A day and a half later, suddendly my connection stops working. The modem has a block synch light (so its not the physical cabling), but I cant get any DHCP info (so I have no IP...not quite gonna work very well on the net). After playing around with my system I was sure it wasnt me, so I called them up. I got some tech support idiot who insists its my machine. I tell him everything has been fine and I double checked and I'm positive its their problem, but he doesnt believe me.
him: "Can you do an ipconfig
me: "I already did that, but sure...nope dont work"
him: "can you unplug the modem fo 60 seconds?"
me: "Already did that for 5 minutes, but Ill do it again....nope dont work?
After going through a bunch of this type of crap, changing settings, disabling internet connection sharing (which he ASSURED me was the reason I wasnt getting a connection, even though it had worked for more than a day), he finally wants me to uninstall and reinstall my TCPIP driver/NIC drivers.
him: "You are gonna need your windows CD for this. do you have it handy?"
me: "Well, I have it, but I just moved into my house 2 weeks ago and its buried somewhere in a box."
him: "Well can you go look for it?"
me: "Look, Im really pretty sure this problem is on your end"
him: "can you please look for it...Ill wait"
so off I go looking. 5 minutes later I have the CD, go through a bunch of crap with him. finally
me: "nope, dont work"
him: "well, now Im gonna need you to..."
at this point, Ive been talking to this idiot for 45 minutes, continually telling him the problem is on their end. Finally, I reach my limit and YELL at the guy that its their problem.
him: "please hold......(2 minutes later)....ok, Im gonna transfer you to another tech now and he will be able to help you:
When I get this new tech, I tell him the problem and why I think its on their end. So he pulls up my info
tech2: "I dont have any info on your NIC or modem"
me: "I called it in 2 days ago and they entered it"
tech2: "well its not there. Can I have it again please?"
me: "ok here it is....."
tech2: "hmmm, thats funny. your modem is still registered at the previous address."
I basicly spend an hour on the phone trying to convince them its their problem, and I was right. When their tech said he took/entered my info a few days back, he lied. After getting tech 2, I had service restored and was off the phone in 5 minutes. However, what if I had an unsupported OS. What would have happened? It was their fault, but they would have been unable to diagnose the problem and assumed it was my fault.
As a Road Runner user, I can verify the fact that they pretty much don't support anything. No home networks is a big one. The only thing about them is that they have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about home networks. If you call for support they will make you hook the cable modem directly to one PC for trouble shooting.
Their service has been pretty good, but this is unsurprising, and somewhat suspect "news".
Heck, RR is just providing a network pipe and DHCP. Why should they care what your OS is?
If you call them up with a network config problem, they should just be able to check to make sure you info is entered correctly in their servers, tell you what services they provide from which hosts, etc.
If you have an OS-related problem and you don't know how to resolve it, you should just check the docs for your OS, and get support from your OS vendor if the docs are insufficient... oh. Nevermind.
While it's not as slick as terminal services, the Windows community has had Netmeeting Remote Desktop Sharing for quite a while now and it's a very slick product and already had mostly replaced pcAnywhere. I don't like seeing Microsoft putting companies out of business, but at the same time pcAnywhere was quite the POS : It's kernel level drivers guaranteed you fairly frequent BSODs, and there were brutal flaws in its scripting language that amazingly remained through many revisions of the product. Overall it just seemed like a "the least product we can deliver and make money" kinda deal.
Yes, this is not a new thing on ISP.
My ISP, Bellsouth , did the same when Windows2000 was born. So it was funny to see the rp-pppoe.tar.gz on the "drivers CD" and the note on their site about not supporting Windows 2000.
Actualy, it makes the most sense for a serious company: Do not support a new product unless you have people trained in that product.
It should't be so "unusual". Actualy, the article would have been more shocking like this:
"YouNameIt ISP supports Windows XP even before October, 1st."
"We do not need no stinkin trainin', said Joe Sixpack, CEO of YouNameIt ISP. "
"Any bozo with a hand able to point-and-click should do fine with any Windows version. And if anything happens, well, the Client Agreement made the user to surrender any right to protest against us. Heck, in the Alient Agreement even states that we take no responsability even if the user cannot never connect to internet!"
It would be somewhat surprising if AOL had trained their entire support staff to support XP within days of the launch.
What is more surprising is that so many slashdotters are jumping with glee because AOL is giving Microsoft the shaft, if AOL does not want to support Microsoft it is a dead certainty that it won't be supporting Linux. Say goodbye to the Internet and hello to pop-up ads.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Also, Winzip does many things the Me shell extension, and I would assume the XP shell extension don't. ie - Breaking apart to multiple files
Funny thing that you mention that! Just last night I had to split a file (coincidentally an ISO of Windows XP! It was a legit volume copy BTW, but I had to move it between offices over a slow connection and I've had too many bad experiences with FTP resumes and last hundred MB downloads) and went into WinZIP to see if it would, to find that the only way it supported splitting the file was if I targetted a removable media, at which point it would split to the size indicated: It would not let me arbitrarily enter a size of each volume. Then again the ZIP file format has always been lame: Remember in the old days if you had a split file you'd have to enter the last disc apparently just so it could get the section information, and then you'd have to put back in the first disc when it'd actually start doing work. That was lame and obviously the result of an oversight.
For large companies such like AOL Time Warner they want to be able to give good technical support and not hacked support. So when you get your Road Runner install and you have a Linux box or Sun Workstation or something else like XP that was released in less then a week. They are not going to say that they support the OS, Good or Bad. Because they dont have the skill to truely support it. Although they might be able to muddel their way threw it It is not Good technical support and if they are caught muddling their way threw the support then that will look bad on the company. But if they say openly before hand that they dont suport it and someone with a Unix/Linux/XP box has a problem they are not responcible to fix it. When I got Road Runner they asked me what OS I had and I said Solaris. They were dumb founded and have never heard of such a system. Then a when they installed Road Runner at my friends house they openly warned us not to use Road Runner on any compuler less then 32 megs of Ram because it would run so slow that dialup would be faster. I ignored them on that too and altho it dosent go a Max speed it does give a decent 90k bytes/s rate. But Road Runner wont support slower systems as well because they dont want to deal whith XT owners crying that their internet dosent work.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Fight Spammers!
I've done ISP support, so I can understand where they are comming from. For the ISP to support it they need at least one copy of the OS and for each person in their tech support center to spend time on it. It's hard to support at first, though most techs will at least try (at least the better ones will.)
I also see a lot of people saying how ISPs don't support *nix. There's good reason for that. There's a lot more involved in getting a *nix box set up to do dial-up than there is with other OS's. Time is money. The tech needs to get the call over as quickly as possible, and preferably in one call. That's incredibly difficult with *nix. You also have the problem of different kernel versions and modules that need to be in place, different software packages and versions, and a user (and tech) who actually can find all the files and know what needs to go in them. Mac and Win* are fairly simple, there is at least a similar interface between the various versions. That is nowhere near true with *nix. We handled *nix calls by saying "I can't help you, but here's the information you need. If you don't know where the info goes, check the HOWTO's."
Not only is configuration a problem with *nix, but so is troubleshooting. Having a user run around their system, checking files (in different places for different distro's and configuration setups) for things, having them go root for some things, that's beyond what most tech support people are able or willing to do. Do you want to lead someone on a chase through their system as root, changing various files, checking their kernel config, software config, and various other options, all over the phone?
Mac is easy, once you know how to do it. But, again, the techs need access to a Mac. In our call center we had one that we could use. Most of the tech's, though, couldn't answer Mac questions. When all they know and use is Windows, it's hard to teach them all the troubleshooting for another OS. There were a few of us who knew Mac's networking inside and out, and we were the ones who always took the calls.
Also, look at training costs involved. It's quick and easy to train someone to troubleshoot/config Windows. But teaching people *nix so that they can troubleshoot those problems is expensive and time consuming. Because of this, it becomes policy within a company not to support certain things. Mac, Win3.1 (yes, it is still in use), *nix, etc. are just too much for a company to try to handle. They stick with what is easy and is on a majority of the desktops. That's simply good business sense. Train other people to do more when you can, but you can never support everything and shouldn't try, either.
As I saw pointed out by someone else, it will be supported, but in a few months. We didn't support Win2k at first, but eventually we did. That involved me making a troubleshooting manual for it and distributing it. That kind of thing takes time, so it will happen, but it could be a few months.
"All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening."
- Alexandar Woolcot
Ahhh... so Linux and Windows on the same playing field... "Not Supported". I wonder which one is easier for to set up now...
BTW: For those who care I used the cygnus split GNU utility to split it and that worked great, and on the other end it was a simply copy parta+partb+partc dest (with a binary flag). Cheers.
Acecape (acecape.com)uses Verizon's lines, but has their own multiple T3s to the Internet and fiber to Verizon. They give static IPs and it's 50 bucks a month. The client-side setup is completely standard LAN, so I have no problems dual booting Linux and Windows. I've called twice for service and I get a completely competent tech every time (more compentent than me, in fact). I've had nearly 100% uptime for my line in the past year.
Set up networking for a DHCP session.
For Win98, it really is that easy. I'm assuming it's that easy also for WinXP.
weylin
67.5% Slashdot Pure I guess I need to work on that....
I don't find it that strange that they won't "offically" support it off the get go. I mean from all I've read and such there are a lot of changes to XP, and a lot more potential to go wrong. I have a feeling RoadRunner, like many other companies, want time to test it out in real world situations, not just the close world betas, to see what it does, what problems it runs in to, if it starts doing wild things to their systems like releasing millions of tiny little Bill Gates which make sure that all the data packets only go to MS friendly sites.
The place I previously worked for only started Windows 2000 "offically" in April of this year. They were quicker about Me, but it wasn't much of a change. XP looks like its going to do things a lot differently, for better or for worse, and I think it's a safe practice to withhold offical support until you've seen what this thing is going to do first hand.
In a row???
There is also no support from Qwest when you have the internal Intel PRO/DSL 2100 Modem. That is because there are no XP drivers. But the Windows 2000 drivers work just fine ...
You *can* use XP... but tech support doesn't know anything about it yet.
I swear, this is normal support stuff. Support people can't know everything. Should they be expected to support roadrunner on your Atari 2600?
Idiots!
Anyone who's had to deal with a cable company's Internet support (or who has read these posts) understands that they don't officially support XP because their support people don't quite get it yet. It's going to work fine, but their statement is going to confuse a lot of people who will confuse "support" with "functionality." An example: my parents signed up for RR about a month ago. They'd been using Netscape 4 for browsing/email--for a long time. But the Neanderthal that hooked them up muttered something about Netscape not being supported, and he loaded IE/OE on their machine. They let him do it because they didn't know any better. So now they have Netscape mail configured for their old ISP, OE configured for Road Runner, and they don't understand how to move email addresses between the two. Other than type them all in manually, that is. They really don't know how to use OE either--I know it's not too difficult, but there is a learning curve when you're not used to something new. How hard could it have been for that guy to configure Netscape for mail? Harder than double-clicking Setup.exe, I guess.
I 100% agree with parent dude.
3.243F6A8885A308D313
In the world of cable modems there are generally 3 types of "techs"
...big companies trying to save $$ often hire out some of the Telephone support to call centers, these callcenters don't always send their personnell for training, but just give them scripts to follow "if problem=a try b..."
1. the Customer Service/Tech Support person
2. the Cable T.V./Internet installer tech
3. the Computer/Network tech
If you get one of the first 2 you are most likely to have trouble getting beyond a script or simple proceedures that they have learned. These techs do not understand how computer systems and networks work, they only know how to do certain tasks that solve most problems. #3 is the guy who will be able to solve almost any problem.... the drawback is in order to get to #3 you usually have to go through one or both of the first 2, and there is good reason for that, techs of type 3 are in short supply and VERY busy.
...this is why as a cable company grows the tech support, if not taken care of properly goes to shit. in the early days the computer tech takes care of or oversees everything to do with computers, but eventually parts of that job get doled out to the installers and CSRs.
Coulda UUencoded and posted to a random newsgroup then plucked it when you got home...
This is the same kind of hassle I had to go through at the ISP where I was putting my time in on the Tech Support trenches when Win98 came out.
Poor driver support, poor working knowledge of the OS, and poor availability of the OS (The ISP wouldn't buy us copies. Those of use who had it had pirate versions), led to a pretty overall piss-poor level of customer support for Win98 users for several months.
Unlike RR, however, our ISP never said, 'We can't really offer support on this until our staff is fully trained'.
Good move on RR's part.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Having used Road Runner since November 1999, I have had very few problems and have generally enjoyed blazing fast speeds for downloading warez and pr0n (the only thing 'Broadband' is actually good for).
When a problem has occured, Road Runner Customer Service has been less than worthless. If you have a problem, even if it's a problem with their system not yours - you are screwed and are in for days (if not weeks) of grief.
On a scale of 1 to 10 they are around Negative 30. They set new standards for stupidity, incompetence and dishonesty.
I'm not even sure that any of them know how their system works or even know how to use a computer.
Linux, small ISP's, etc.. are at a disadvantage because it costs $$$ to advertise.
Journalists that are tech savvy are trying, but for every tech savvy journalist, there are dozens of reporters who really don't know what they're talking about.
I think Joe Average is slowly finding out. We can hasten the process by requesting a tech savvy reporters in news casts.
By this time I'd already debugged the problem, both from inside and outside and knew exactly which of their routers was misconfigured
Eventually I bit my lip and borrowed a windows box - went thru voicemail hell, then had to be handheld through "are you sure you typed in you IP address correctly" "but I tell you your router needs it's tables fixed" proccess at least 3-4 times before we got to "I'll refer you to my 2nd tier support - they'll call you on monday" (they didn't - in the end I was down 6 days, up a day down 4 more days before they fixed the problem - I did the telephone hell thing 7 times before stuff came back)
Anyway one thing I realised - the people you call at the phone company when your line goes down know NOTHING about networking
It's pretty sad when your only usefull options for net connection consist of "the phone company" and "the cable company" - remember when you used to have a local ISP - and you could talk to someone who actually knows what they are doing
I just installed Redhat 7.2 on my machine that has been using SWBell DSL for a year and a half. Not one glitch. Of course, I didn't bother to ask them if it could be done, I just did it!
What kind of support do Linux and BSD users need from RoadRunner? If you don't know how to set up an Ethernet card with DHCP, you should either find someone experienced with that OS to help you, or you should switch to another OS.
Now Verizon DSL, which requires PPoE... That's another story. They require you to install special software to register, and only supply Windows versions. Though I know plenty of Linux users who've adapted.
PS If it's a problem with the cable modem itself, then I understand completely. Generally RoadRunner (or the cable company) is pretty good at handling those, even if you use a non-supported OS.
I have fought with RR over support for a while, and I actually don't think this makes a bit of difference on the network working on a technical level, but based on the QoS I personally have received from them, you need something supported:
Behind my RR cable modem are 3 computers (sometimes 4, all linux, one can boot MacOS and one can boot Win95), a printer, a hub, and a Linksys BEFR**** 4 pt routerette. Whenever I have the link light go out on my modem (which in an apt complex can be anything from lightning to the cable dude disconnecting the wrong lines) I have to call in. The FIRST thing RR does is make you take everything off the network that isn't supported. For me, this is EVERYTHING. RR will not support:
the hub
the Linksys router
Any of the computers save one, which can't be
running Linux, so it has to be one of the
dual-boots
the printer.
It's pretty obvious what's wrong when the link light is dead for the cable side. I still have to disconnect all this stuff before they go "yeah, we had happen and there was work in the area (as in they knew about it all along) so will just reset your line...
plink, link light syncs up.
So yes, you DO need to have something supported by RoadRunner to run otherwise you can't fix what they screw up for you. At least not in Houston...
I'd like to hear others experiences with RR and unsupported items if you have any to know if im alone or what not.
- Sig
Try making a self-extracting archive with WinXP...
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
@home network, the other large cable modem ISP, has a custom @home Browser, and the support policy is that only machines using the @Home software are supported, so perhaps this comes down to using the RoadRunner Branded version of IE with the newer XP OS? does Roadrunner provide such a brandedIE like that?
Usually, ISP's of this type provide a cable modem with a standard ethernet port. Likely it's setup to use DHCP. MOST ALL NIC DRIVERS ASSUME DHCP by default and you will likely be able to then just specify the correct client ID (AKA Computer name, DNS Name, Host name)
on Win (9x-ME) it's:
Start-Settings-Control panel-Network-Identification tab-enter this in the box "computer name"
on Win2K and XP, its:
Start-Settings-Control panel-System-Network Identification- Click the "change" button-enter "computername" unless you're logging into some network leave it on workgroup(doesn't matter what workgroup).
I don't know if Road runner uses DHCP but that's how most cable providers do it on @home.
SO what's the big deal?
"Our staff is not trained on XP yet, so we can't offer support yet".
Fair enough
I dunno about anyone else, but I'd be kinda insulted if someone compared WinXP to any flavour of Unix. Duh, I know what timothy meant; just a thought.
A word can paint a thousand pictures
*sigh*. I love it when people write conspiracy theories when it's really just a standard Dynamic DNS client that is poking around on the network.
Once again, this is a cool idea that Microsoft has implemented if your corporation uses nothing but Microsoft servers. (Note: this is the same dynamic DNS that is used by many websites to give you your own domain name, so you don't have to have a Microsoft server to support it. However, most regular DNS servers do not have this option enabled.) The dynamic DNS option is enabled by default, however, in Windows 2000, and it causes a waste of network services (to the point of becoming a DOS attack on a company's DNS servers) when those DNS servers do not support it. Here is more information (that I wrote when researching it for my company):
Windows 2000 supports something called Dynamic DNS (DDNS), which lets clients automatically update their own A records. This means that a DNS server supporting Dynamic DNS would be almost completely self-maintained, as whenever the computer connects or disconnects from the network, it adds/removes its own records. It basically completely eliminates the need for static IPs (except for things like web servers and such that touch the outside world.)
Unfortunately, Microsoft, in its blind Microsoft-only world, made Dynamic DNS registration turned on by default on all Windows 2000 clients, even in companies without a dynamic DNS server. This creates a lot of unnecessary traffic on the network as every time the computer connects or disconnects, it sends a little message to the DNS server. I've even been told (without proof) that it sends a request to every DNS server on its list, possibly upgrading the request all the way to the root server if it doesn't get its way with the first server on its list.
This had a lot of UNIX admins frightened about job security (my take: if you're sitting there all day updating DNS records, you better find some new job skills anyway) and it has evolved into a fascinating topic of research for me. Some pretty good takes on it can be found here:
(Yale: Making UNIX DNS servers and Windows 2000 play nice)
(eWeek article from 1999 discussing Windows 2000 DDNS and the impact it has on UNIX DNS servers)
This is really interesting because it's one small facet of the many ways Microsoft is subtly pushing UNIX around. ("Hey! We have this cool thing implemented in Windows now! Fire your UNIX sysadmins and throw away your UNIX servers, because our servers are so much easier to maintain!")
When I first tried to use win2k with RR their staff said they didn't support 2k yet, but I think now they do since their staff is trained... same goes for XP, it's really no surprise.
Road Runner Doesn't Do XP
A few months ago I saw a birthday card that had a picture of Bill Gates on it with a messy room in the background with him saying "I'd help you clean up your party, but I only do windows."
Well Mr. Gates, Road Runner doesn't!
Of course, survival probability and bang/buck was on Cable's side, so I picked up the self install kit from a Time Warner office down the street (I remember the sales girl wistfully mentioning to me that she didn't have cable herself; that she didn't even own a TV; that she reads mostly. I still haven't figured out what kind of signal she was sending me...but I smelled geek! And not a bad looking one either.)
I was multibooting Win98/Linux at the time, but pretended that I was running Linux only in order to impress her and get some raw network info so I didn't have to install Time Warner's lame win32 client software in the case of network weirdness.
Well, she wasn't impressed by linux (she's from the book-geek-only tribe I guess) and couldn't give me any additional info, so I went home (to my other woman :), killed my static DSL IP, and let DHCP do the rest without having to install any craptacular, bloated, windows-only, hand-holding gatekeeper-ware.
What does this lame short story have to do XP? Not much, other than the fact that an ISP "supporting and OS" should be as easy as DHCP (1, 2, 3. Get it?); which it was for me, and which it should be for most others.
I guess the only remaining issues are things like mail and news servers that don't usually auto-configure themselves... and client hijack-ware that isn't ready to rewire WinXP configs.
IMO, ISP's shouldn't have to _actively_ support any OS. ISP's should only be there to bitch at when your connection dies for ~5 minutes every ~30...like mine is now!!
Power to the Peaceful
in order to make sure that your connection is working they must be able to ping your computer. They make you take it down so that they can make sure that there is a connection to your modem and then to your computer (there are two seperate IPs, a local for the modem and a general one for the computer).
It's just part of the system. If you don't take it down that's fine for the most part but it isn't going to make a big difference if you do for just a moment while they run the test.
Only the fact that this relates to XP keeps it from being completely irrelevant (and it's still not relevant). Also Road Runner is being very irresponsible in publishing their opinion about an OS they've admitted to barely touching.
Still think this is news? OK.. Then does Road Runner support BeOS, *BSD, etc? I very much doubt it. But can customers still use those OS'es in using their service? I very much think so. All it takes is a DHCP client and the network card they give you (to which you're typically tied to the MAC address and usually can not swap out; at least in my case that's true). But did Road Runner come forward with a bold announcement about not supporting those? Nope.
As usual, the early adopters will respond with a quiet sigh of tolerance and do whatever the hell they feel like doing anyway.
Good grief...
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Why bother supporting an operating system that has built-in terminal services 10x better than the product you're currently selling? PcAnywhere is gonna disappear soon when everyone is running XP...
No, spend some time on a help desk and you'll understand why Terminal Services isn't going to replace pcAnywhere anytime soon. For starters, it doesn't work over phone lines without a tcp/ip connection. When you support single workstations scattered across the country, TS is useless.
Then there's file synch. If you deal with big files, TS isn't smart enough to only synch the changed parts of the files, whereas pcA is.
What's your damage, Heather?
I had a guy tell me that on my Linux box!!!! No crap. I called up, and told the guy I was running Linux, and just needed him to put my MAC addy in the system.
Why, dear god, can't someone stop these minimum wage screen readers from trying to re-invent the wheel??
Me: Hi, I just got a new machine and I need you to put my MAC address in the system so I can connect to the network.
Weasel: What seems to be the problem??
Me: I can't get an IP because the new Mac address isn't in your system.
Weasel: Are you running Windows??
Me: Die Infidel!!!
Generally by the time I'm at the "Tier 3 tech", I've already scanned their network (Class B) Twice! And he goes... "Oh, you need your Mac addy entered into the system?? No problem..."
I don't believe that ISP's need to support home computers. It should be like the phone, we get it to the house, after that it's your baby.
Get a good firewall/router and spoof everything. And then run your own warez site. Rave on cats!
Hammy
http://nothing4sale.org - Corporations are just better organized thieves.
I have 2 computers connected to my cable moden thru a hub. One morning I get up and find that my computer won't connect to the Internet. Reboot and everything's fine. But now the other computer can't connect to the Internet. Reboot that one and eveything works fine -- but now the first computer can't connect again. Repeat several times.
Call Road Runner and begin my descent into Tech Support Hell
The next few days are spent explaining to several different people that:
A) I'm paying $10 a month extra for their "Home Networking" feature which allows me to connect more than 1 computer to the same modem.
B) I've had this same setup, with no change in any hardware for 18 months with no problem.
C) The fact that both computers can connect to their network and surf the Internet with no problem would seem to prove that all cables and hardware are working properly.
D) The fact that both computers are unable to connect at the same time -- even though I've previously been doing it for 18 months -- would seem to prove that there must be a problem within their network.
Logical, eh?
Whoever coined the phrase "Like talking to a wall" must have been a Road Runner subscriber. It took 3 days and at least 6 phone calls just to get them to admit that MAYBE the problem is on their end, not mine. And a couple more days to find someone who knew where to look to find the problem and what to do once they found it.
why don't they just ship a few thousand AK-47's and ammunition to Microsoft's headquarters.
This is just the sort of thing that Microsoft can use to say: "look, DOJ, look at AOL's anticompetitive practice - they're not supporting XP on purpose to hurt our revenues, and since they have Market Power (TM), they can leverage that against Microsoft, so Microsoft is *not* a Monopoly, and you must drop the case against us!"
Sometimes I wonder if they aren't all secretly in cahoots. This is just terrible news for consumers no matter how you look at it.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Here in Central Oklahoma, we've had horrendous problems with RoadRunner. In fact, our connections went out NIGHTLY for
nearly 5 months. And of course, RoadRunner
support would always claim there was no detectable problems on their end, when it was pretty obvious there was. Only after threatening class action lawsuits, calling nightly, and having them give me 3+ months
of free service, did the problem ever get fixed!!
Definitely one of the most clueless,disorganized, mismanaged, operations going!
WOW that implies you payed for your OS ? :)
An honest man on Samhain ? the IRONY of it all
haha... I mean... I'm not cryin! ;)
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
maybe the tech knows *BSD and Lyenux better than you, fuckwad. He is just not allowed to support it. You have never worked in a shitty corporate script-driven call center tech environment, apparently, or you would know that some $7 to $11 /hr phone tech isn't allowed to deviate to far from any scripts or offer support on items that the COMPANY HE WORKS FOR didn't HIRE HIM TO SUPPORT. oh yeah..fuck you dumbass
Yo! How about Road Runner paying their employees more than $5.50/hr! Then they might be motivated enough to learn the XP OS themselves so that when Xmas hits and all those new XP boxes get sold, a customer can actually use Road Runner instead of possibly looking at alternatives (dsl?).
Sheesh, you're only as good as your customer support.
Now, there may be some hidden agenda behind not officially supporting XP, but why bother? Just let the calls trickle in, work it normally...let the call engineer learn as he goes - assuming you don't have monkies at the support center, you'll be ok, and you may pick up a couple of extra customers to boot!!
No wonder these people are bankrupt.
The only 'We support this ...' statements you need from ISPs are:
...
We support TCP/IP.
We support DHCP.
We support POP3/IMAP.
We support
Get it ? The rest is in the upper layers and is totally tranparent to what an ISP must provide. If you people have problems with XP and your ISP, it's M$ you should rely on not the ISP.
Road Runner is probably stating this to prevent flood of calls to their offices... ( Yes i believe that they will get tons of calls because of XP. )
As someone in Toronto, Ontario... I am stuck with Rogers@home for broadband cable based access... A friend of mine, however, in New Brunswick is currently using Windows XP, and connects thru Roadrunner Check out www.chronicboy.com to see his webpage run from apache on XP, or lookup his IP to see that he's on a Roadrunner subnet... "No Deal..." ...Matt
guess we've all been there.
I'm locked out of email right now. When I hit the POP3 server via telnet I get -ERR Unable to open mailbox
When I call tech support I get various combinations of "What email program are you using" and "Have you tried rebooting" even though I have repeatedly explained that I am using telnet specifically to eliminate the possibility of a problem with my client. I wish I could slap some of these morons. I just know they are hoping I'll say what client I use so they can say "we don't support that/try Microsoft"
Moral of the story - tech support is worthless so it really doesn't matter what they say they'll support.
If you call up the call centre with Windows XP you don't really know if your going to get support or not.
...to best of my ability...
There are different levels of ability in the call centre, you might even get someone who might just flat out and say "We don't support XP, good bye."
Perhaps because they are not technically inclined, or perhaps because they don;'t want to waist the time.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
I'm curious, why don't you just lie and say "I have Microsoft Windows 98SE and I am very proud of it"
It's not like they are going to OS fingerprint you!
What is worse, to say you don't support something or to claim that you do but provide lousy support?
Upon thinking "Why won't they support XP?", I had to wonder to myself:
Is it because the RAW SOCKETS fiasco?
Think about it. The best way to keep something out of the hands of the public (where it is most likely to be a problem) is to say "Oh, you can get it, but we won't help you 'un-break' it [It is MS, afterall] if you need help."
Just a thought.
- Sometimes you're the pidgeon, sometimes you're the statue.
Why bother posting such irrelevant news? Is it because it gives the impression that XP is not gaining any popularity? or that MS did something non-standard which makes RR unusable?
Maybe slashdot should post articles about all the products/services that don't 'officially' support linux (even though they can be used with it). It seems as though you guys are running out of ways to convince your followers that linux isn't losing ground to MS. Go round up some more web server benchmarks...
Why is this news on Slashdot? It's not unusual for a help desk, whether it's Internet based or any other, to support an OS soon after release.
/. ? it's definately not newsworthy. I've also noticed that most of those articles and duplicate articles are posted by timothy. Is this a trend? Hmmmmm
I would say it would be more unusual for a help desk to actually support an OS within even a couple of months of release.
A help desk I used to work for only started to officially support Win2000 6 months ago (which is what, 2 years after release?). They didn't start supporting NT until 98 or so.
Again, I ask, why is this story even on
What's the next news headline? CmdrTaco eats at KFC?
It's better to burn out than to fade away
Well..if they don't it's just that they suck at providing support.
Road Runner doesn't care for ACME-distributed products, either. And I'd wager that coyotes aren't all that popular as well.
The first shots have been fired in the war for consumer subscription dollars.
To the winner: unchecked monopoly and exploitation of subscribers...
...at least until the Justice Department catches up (ha ha ha)
... because they're owned by AOL/Time Warner =D
How the hell is the story bashing MS? Bashing Roadrunner maybe, but I don't see any MS bashing at all.
Consider these facts:
- Everybody, including RR, knew that Windows XP was going to launch this week. It wasn't like this was a surprise to anyone.
- The Beta and RC versions of Windows XP have been available for months. Certainly they could have been testing it out and developing support scripts for it.
- There are going to be a lot of people moving to Windows XP. With new PC shipping with it pre-installed, and with the big XP marketing push, they are probably going to be flooded with questions about XP support. I imagine that they will scare a lot of non-tech users away from using their service with blanket statements like "we don't support XP". The non-tech uses are going to be driven to some other ISP.
- As others have pointed out, offering XP support is probably not that difficult. It's probably a matter of figuring out what icons to click and what buttons to push. Certainly some bright tech should be able to write up a support document in a couple hours (if that).
I can at least understand dragging their heels on Windows 2000 support to some extent. After all, the average home user isn't going to get a PC with it pre-installed. However, given that XP is supposed to be the consumer Windows operating system, not offering support for it seems like dumb from a PR standpoint.
------
www.moneybythenumbers.com
Look out for Microsofts response: Windows XP no longer support Road Runner, or any AOL/TW products.
And so the question becomes.
I mean, they had time to get on the ball with training. Fact is this means that IT at Jack-in-the-Box [yes, possible the most 3rd rate burger joint in the states] was more prepared then road runner. As for the crack about Toshiba not being compliant with XP, I find it difficult to believe. They had the Bios updates for the laptops, so they would be XP compliant, in July.
This as road runner's network is getting more and more saturated, and added with the fact that they are directing their users to nameservers that they don't own. My ISP ended up barring the entire roadrunner ip range becuase they kept overwhelming our dns servers, and I have heard of at least ten other ISP's that have had the same problems. Roadrunner has never ever commented on it.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them blown themselves out of the water, but that is my own personal opinion.
Code softly but carry a big magnet.
zip has been built into the shell since Windows Me, and Winzip has continued to thrive
1. The only people who actually bother to pay for WinZip are corporations.
2. Corps don't run Windows ME.
Winzip's going down, but they've made enough money off the open source info-zip lib with their cornball gui that they should be happy for the run that they've had.
From the Yale document on DDNS:
Active Directory DNS entries are made in four special "zones" that go along with each active directory domain. These zones have the names _msdcs, _tcp, _udp and _sites. If you have fully dynamic name service, these zones are created for you. For example, if you have an Active Directory domain named "mydomain.com", there are zones created with the names "_msdcs.mydomain.com", "_tcp.mydomain.com", "_udp.mydomain.com", and "_sties.mydomain.com" as part of the Active Directory installation process to hold your domain's information.
You mean to tell me, that all this time, I could have been sending all those stupid Win2K machines that hammer my nameserver with SRV requests, over to Microsoft's DNS servers for some quality hammer time?
OH JOY!
Edith Keeler Must Die
... after chasing thru voicemail who when told I had a Linux system told me that she could not EVER fix my problem.
I make it a habit to keep around at least one old system with Windows in these kinds of cases. When the network goes down, tech support drones will typically run you through a script before they are convinced that it's their fault. It's easier and faster to just play along with them rather than argue with them or confuse/frighten them.
You have to realize that there is a phyche that one must work with when calling tech support folks, and the sooner you figure out how to play their game, the better results you will get.
An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
I called Road Runner yesterday because a friend of mine just got a PC (finally!) and it won't allow me to connect Netmeeting, Radmin, ICQ Chat, games, or anything else.
But Rod Rammer says they "only support web browsing and email. Anything else is your problem."
Bastards.
After wasting some time trying to get around in Technet, I did see this:
There are four methods of assigning IP addresses to TCP/IP clients:
Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP), which automatically assigns IP addresses in an environment with a DHCP server.
Automatic Private IP Addressing (APIPA), which automatically assigns an IP address and subnet mask to clients on a subnet if there is no DHCP server (or if no DHCP request to the subnet is received by the DHCP server).
Alternate Configuration, which allows the user to set the computer to first try DHCP, and then configure an alternate, manually configured TCP/IP address setting if a DHCP configuration is not received.
Manual configuration of IP addresses.
The third choice seems to me to be the most interesting - especially for notebook users. The second is reminiscent of the strange private addresses I've seen being automatically assigned while trying to implement M$ ICS for clients. That's one of the reasons I use WinRoute for my clients that don't mind paying for a more robust, configurable software router.
When I got AT&T Cable Modem service this spring, they would not support Win2k, but now they do. No biggie - configuring the thing myself was easy. It appears that XP's configuration is not that different from 2k's - but not having a copy (and not wanting a copy), I can't be sure.
Excite@home (AT&T?) says they will support XP, both versions. Woo Hoo. This is good news for the poor saps who have no choice on their new Dell or Gateway. Along those lines, I expect I'll have to trudge through helping clients register and get their new XP-tainted boxes connected - so that's really why I posted this: for any unfortunate tech who will be in the same pickle.
My real hope is that I can get around @home's (recent?) problem with their proxy and WinMX. I haven't heard any new music in days. Boo Hoo.
db
Cig:
ôô
I recieved this spam:
Basiclly the ISPs need to make sure the DSL modems all have XP drivers available. this may take the vendors time, yet the heat is on Microsoft.
> The Sacramento Bee, California via NewsEdge Corporation : Oct.
> 30--When Microsoft unveiled its new Windows XP operating system last
> week, Ronald T. Jones viewed it as a sure way to encourage his wife's
> computer use. After all, the system seemed a breeze for a non-tech
> person, and Jones had heard it would rarely crash.
> But that enthusiasm waned after the engineering project manager at
> Yamas Controls in Sacramento tried to link to the Internet via his
> high-speed DSL connection.
> It didn't work.
> Jones was one of many new XP users whose new operating system didn't
> work with their DSL connections.
> The problem is that the software code used by many Internet service
> providers isn't compatible with XP.
> "DSL (digital subscriber line) is dead in the water for those people
> who upgrade," complained Jones.
> He said he spent more than four hours over the weekend trying to
> address the problem. "I was really upset by the end," he added.
> The alternatives Jones faced: Either revert to a dial-up connection or
> find another Internet link that works with XP.
> While Microsoft declined to make a company spokesman available for a
> telephone interview, it did issue a brief statement to The Bee.
> In essence, the company said it is working with modem manufacturers
> and DSL providers to address the issues and that users who encounter
> problems should contact their Internet service providers to learn the
> timetable for resolution.
> A call to Citizens Communications was not immediately answered on
> Monday.
> But Jones said he learned that the maker of one modem available for
> Citizens' DSL did not receive instructions from Microsoft in time to
> upgrade to the XP operating system.
> And last week, Verizon warned some of its DSL customers that
> installing Windows XP would cause their connection to stop working.
> Verizon told the Washington Post that its DSL service doesn't run
> under XP but that Verizon plans to update it.
> On Monday, Verizon spokeswoman Julia Wilson in Los Angeles said the
> problem doesn't affect its 176,000 DSL customers in California. Only a
> small number of users on the East Coast were affected, she said,
> because the vast majority of customers have older Microsoft operating
> systems.
> In California, meanwhile, SBC's Pacific Bell issued special alerts to
> XP users about the steps they should take to use their DSL
> connections.
> But Jones said the recommended steps, mirrored in the Microsoft
> upgrade instructions, didn't work -- even with Microsoft technical
> support.
> Finally, Pacific Bell's Web site said certain modems such as Alcatel
> SpeedTouch PC and Efficient 3060/4060 were not yet compatible with XP
> but that they soon would be.
> For Jones, meanwhile, the simple aim of making his computer easier for
> his wife to use has turned into a fiasco.
> That's a problem, he said, because he conducts his personal banking on
> the Web and his children use the Internet extensively.
> "Instead of being one with the Web," he said, "I'm none with the Web."
>
> In the meantime, he said he learned that AT&T Broadband, the cable
> television provider, does offer no-glitch access with XP. And while he
> was happy with his DSL connection via Citizens Communications, he
> refused to wait the days or weeks deemed necessary for the fix.
> "I switched to AT&T Broadband today," he said, adding, "I feel bad
> about leaving Citizens."
>
We already support XP at the ISP I work for. Small rural ISP, but we support it. I did the instructions for users.
one evil empire battles another...do we get to see the victor take on Elsevier?
Big deal. I worked for one of RR's smaller competetors a few years ago as a senior neteng... we wouldn't support Win2k betas and didn't even support the full release untill 4 or 5 months after it was released.
This is standard... companies want to make sure that their staff is 100% trained before they claim proficiency. Since XP was just released, how could they have been trained by now? Don't say betas or anything like that -- hands-on experience with release versions is the best way and the most reliable.
Try a violation of the TOS....According to @home, if you are not using a stand-alone OS (i.e. winblows), we are told to refuse the installation. Not to mention the fact that we are told to not install the @home service on any system with "Server" in the OS title. what a joke.
They don't support their own network very well, never mind the user's OS config. I was recently down for >24 hours and spent about 2 hours waiting on fsking hold. The problem had nothing to do with my hw/sw.
;-{ I finally got it thru her thick skull that i wasn't talking about any kind of home router. I asked her to see if she could ping the router and she told me she didn't have the tools to do that.
Their gateway router and/or dhcp server were down and as soon as i mentioned the word 'router', the service rep went into a big spiel about how they didn't support routers
The worst part of it was that the rep wasn't aware that there was an outage in my area. I would have been spared much of the hold time if she could have assured me that they were aware of, and working on the problem. The next day the service was back. No explanation, apology, just a bill in the mail.
Yet another monopoly at its finest.
Funny, it didn't LOOK like a slow news day....
-Legion
...you must be new to the whole tech support thing...
:)
heh, that's funny...
Depending on what "tier" you work for, I might work on the floor above you.
Atleast you guys support Windows 2000. Netzero's official take on the matter is that the software works on the operating system, but we can only offer limited support.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
My provider (Rogers@Home) doesn't support MacOS X (which I've been running since it came out in March). And I'm sure they don't officially support the Linux nat/firewall box connected to the modem either. Their only requirement is that the computer use DHCP. Occasionally I'm told to use a Windows machine (even though the problem is at their end), however, I just lie :)
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
When you have a problem, tell the tech support you have Windows 2000. Various settings like the network settings are nearly identical to Windows 2000. They'll never know and you'll have your problem hopefully fixed sooner! MiaKa
Why does everyone consider "NT" and "2000" synonymous, but "XP" and "NT/2000" are not. I would think 2000 is closer to XP than it is to NT. Even if they are based on the same kernel, I doubt the configuration instructions for NT would work for 2000 or XP, step by step. Granted, most people probably don't even need instructions since it will probably work with just plugging it in and rebooting (or waiting, or if you're smart a release/renew).
;)
I mean, NT doesn't even support sound cards
I work for a call center, and my supervisors told me straight out "I can train anyone computers but you can't train good people skills". So basically they hire people who are "nice" but don't necessarily know a network cable from a hole in the ground.
:) I hate people and I hate customers, but I still think I do a good job talking nicely on the phone with them. Granted, I'm faking, but who cares as long as I solve their problem. And THAT is where technical skills come into play.
Thank goodness I was hired before my supervisor
If other call centers have the same attitude as my supervisors, I am not surprised they tell you "Linux will NOT work" with their DSL. *sigh*
Over 50% of AOL's support calls are for Microsoft problems. This costs AOL a fortune and saves Microsoft a fortune. Any sane company would do whatever they can to avoid paying for Microsoft's lousy tech support..
I work for a call center for cable modems. I run a firewall at home. There is no way in hell I want to walk a user who can't master the different between "right" and "left" clicking through configuring their firewall from God knows which manufacturer with God knows what interface. It's difficult enough getting them to find the Start menu (or Apple menu). My first question is "What operating system are you running?", and some of them don't even know that, so I have to ask them to describe it. These are the same damn people who go to Best Buy and purchase a router they don't know how to configure because it was the only box that said "Cable/DSL" on it (hubs usually don't).
*sigh* I think Firewalls are a must, but only if you know how to use them. Perhaps the general public isn't ready for this technology... Must have router, but must know how to run it = poor support and confused customers. An alternative to a router would be securing your box as best you can, which we all know people suck at...
Anyone who is smart/savvy enough to lie about their operating system probably isn't running XP anyway...
well, the real problem is that your "service provider" has outsourced your support to some bottom feeder and they get paid by the call!!!!
I'm a subcontractor for a company called TCS in central Ohio. We have a contract with Insight Communications, the local carrier for RoadRunner. This week alone, I've probably installed at least 10-15 XP systems. I've heard no word of this official "non-support" of XP. Shrug?
This is standard practice for all isp's
So far most cable modem we tried got problem on USB driver. It take a long time for vendors make their USB driver work fine on W2K/W98. I expect they may do it again. Say, another few month?
Just try to suspend/resume PC and Cable modem got something wrong.
Oh! I forget this is /.
I used to work tech at Verio and when we first implemented DSL we had many Linux users and Free-Bsd users as well.(Verio is a big BSD Shop). We only offered official support for windows 95,98 and Macs. However, since our DSL was NIC based we were only too happy to give you the TCPIP settings. Hell, what ISP doesnt use DHCP for all of the above anymore for the home user? I gave support for all OS's I could help with. However, as soon as you solve one problem there is always a by the way question. And these questions turn into the strangest off topic support questions. I have heard everything from fixing burgular alarms, can you connect the pc to the garage door opener, etc. If you look at a practical point, how many OS'es can you know fluently). Personal example Win 3.1,95,98,me, NT, 2000. Linux( dont get me started on flavors) BSD How can you expect a company to have techs that support all of these? I am sorry but you would have to come up with a little cash for me to return to the trenches to help the guy who knows nothing about Unix to install his dialup connection on the version of Linux that he installed from the CD that came with PC gamer. So I think a company that has to look at its bottom line and go with the majority. I use linux and windows. However, case in point I cannot remember every problem, every kernel patch, for every version that is floating around. No can do. I know this sounds kind of crazy(off topic) but if company spent more money on complete paper documentation(LIKE IBM with the OLD DOS binders that even had space for updates.) And not the the slip of paper that says insert disk and BOOM, OS installed. This is the problem with all support problems. People have nothing but a flyer and an 800 number. puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Just been to an XP launch in Singapore. Frankly,
i am amazed that AOL is not doing something major
considering how it's messaging and other services (think MSN)
are being displaced in the new XP OS. Not only AOL
but applications such as winzip, photoshop
and so on....are facing the same fate as Netscape.
I know this had been suggested many times but
seriously, many of these private companies should
consider working closely on the Linux platform
to break up the M$ juggernaut...before it's all too late!
Reality is what we taste, smell, see, hear and touch yet we cannot comprehend it...only approximate it.
And Qwest (being sued) has known about xp for a long time too. 260,000 customers of theirs have the "intel series" of modems, which also do not work with WIN XP as of yet. Intel, being the lazy fucks that they are, haven't written the drivers for the 2200 / 3200 yet. I don't blame them, a 2100 goes on ebay for a whopping five bucks, but manufacturers that dont write drivers for old hardware really, really piss me off.
Ironically, the intel 3200 does not work (period, it's not unsupported, it simply doesn't work) with VIA chipsets, but thats a conspiracy theory for another day.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
First of all, Road Runner is owned by AOL, just to put things into perspective. Also, realize, that Windows 95 and NT 4 were both version 4.0 of windows. Windows 2000 is 5.0. And Windows XP is 5.1. Even though the UI looks very different, the fact is that users have an easier time switching from Win2k to Win XP than from Win 95 to Win 98. That just illustrates how there isn't really much difference between the two.
I have road runner. A few weeks ago, I had some problems and did some live tech chat on the rr website. When I said I had Win XP he said road runner didn't support it. So I just came back later and said I had Win 2k. The only problem with saying you have win 2k is that you have to be pretty familiar with win xp, and also Win 2k. Because he will give you step by step instructions through the gui which will not apply to XP. But aside from that, it isn't really a problem.
To me this is just part of an overall strategy by AOL to hinder Win XP and microsoft in general. Sure, it seems petty, self-destructive, and ineffective, and it may be so, but this is deliberate, and it will be some time before they train their techs. There isn't really much to train.
This is a non-event, almost more hype than XP.
radsoft.net
Bashing aside, I've no problem with rr at all. For one, I run FreeBSD mainly, with natd for the other computers in the house. I'd told them this in advance, and unlike other companies. *cough*Erols*cough*Mindspring*cough* They didn't flinch. They had no problem, as long as I knew their tech support may not be able to help with my problems.
... its like low end ADSL at least...
Field tech came out to do the install, He was clued enough to answer my questions without drool-and-shrug. (I had done research before he even arrived, I knew what to look for/expect)
I had a Windows box all prepped for him to do the "install" on, with the intent of grok'ing the setup and translating for FreeBSD.. But the tech just said "DHCP" and that was that. Trivial, and in 3 months, my IP hasn't changed.
Sure, port 80 is blocked, (given nimda/code red and clue-resistant users, I can't blame them.) But what unix geek worth the title can't work around a minor thing like that...
I like roadrunner. I'm happy with them. Now if my upload was more than 20k/sec and my DL's more than 150k/sec
Ah well. It beats dialup.
And, I'm getting better speeds than I did under 98SE! Oh happy days.
BT Internet (also under the name 'BT OpenWorld') in the UK also seems to have been 'caught out' by XP. After installing XP at home I found I could no longer connect to either of my DialTime or SurfTime accounts. After trying in vain for several hours I finally called BT support (50p a minute so I wanted to try and fix it myself first as you can surely understand). All was going well with the support call until the engineer asked which OS I had. Once XP was mentioned he quickly said that BT did not support connections using XP and would not do so for a few weeks yet. How can these large telecommunications companies not be ready for new OS releases, especially from Billy. Did they not get on the beta program???
Now another reason for them not to support.
Had a blast with Qwest recently. They seemed to have problems with their local mail server (pop.phnx.qwest.net). Got on the phone with tech support.
"I'm getting funny messages from your mail server"
Oh, do you have another mail program you can try without funny messages.
"Sure. I have Eudora. And I'm still getting funny messages"
We don't support Eudora. Goodbye.
Stupid Internet.
The Internet is generally stupid
Would it satisfy you to say that Windows XP is the *newest version* of the most popular OS ever assembled ?
Let's be honest about this:
the Microsoft Monopoly has
basically made any 'support' a big joke
because whatever is 'fixed' by so-called
'support' will most likely be
broken by the malicious SOB's at MS anyway.
How many people won't even think of
buying software or hardware anymore because
they know it is a big friggin monopoly.
Like printers that don't work after you change the
print cartridge and they want 50 bucks for
three dollars in ink.
The MS monopoly is doing every thing to kill
every other system out there.
They are money mongers and theives.
If your system works don't bother upgrading.
If you need to better get a MAC or LINUX
MICROSOFT is a sleaze bag company and
I wouldn't waste my time with their crap.
Who friggin cares who supports them?
They don't care about their customers and
would like it if we were all slaves.
They can rot in hell.
ax to grind?
Microsoft has destroyed the PC industry.
There is no software left to buy that isn't
insanely expensive or made by those money
mongering assholes.
Why shouldn't we have an ax to grind
when MS uses their OS ax to chop the head
off of all of their competition?
When you buy a MS machine they run their code
on your box and monitor you and treat you like a subject person.
Only people who
a. own their stock
b. are on their payroll
have anything good to say about them.
So, let us grind our ax.
And as far as you go, have fun being
monitored and treated like a surf.
We ended fuedalism and we will end MS monopoly.
Are you such a fool as to not see how MS's
anticompetitive additude has destroyed the PC
industry? Doesn't it bother you that instead of
hundereds and thousands of software title to
run there are only a handfull left?
Are you just an idiot?
So, take your check from them and cash it and have
a nice life being their shill.
You are a fool and they are assholes.
Nice to see it is newswqorthly that they don't support XP.
Now, howabout reporting that they have NEVER suppoerted LINUX?
Biased geeks.
I am moving to Hackensack this weekend. I set up my new DSL service with Verizon about a week and a half ago, and the tech indicated firmly that XP is NOT supported by Verizon at this time. Since I had my copy on order (bye bye BSoDs), this worried me and I asked why.
According to the Verizon tech, it's a combination of a lack of support staff training (with none in the immediate plans) combined with their server infrastructure not being able to work effectively with Win2K or XPHome/Pro there... they apparently haven't patched up their NT systems...
This is bothersome, but since they dropped long term committments, I am just waiting on OptimumOnline cable service in my building (it's ran to the outside, but inside wiring is not done yet apparently). I have had verizon for a year here in Illinois and ran RC1 and RC2 as well as Win2K on my home network with nor problems, so I don't know who to believe.
I can only imagine... "yes, I'm running Debian with the 2.4 kernel, the latest beta of KDE, and I have a custom connection script - I can't visit any websites with Mozilla." Cue the tech support headache now!
For all the limits, it's probably a good thing that the Windows and MacOS designs tend to be so static. You don't have to worry about what GUI they're using, whether they're using an older TCP/IP stack with problems, or whether they've managed to mangle their system through their own coding, or... I think you get the idea.
I do work tech support, and I actually had someone who wanted support because of just that - they had a custom script in Linux that was preventing them from connecting to the Internet. Yet, mysteriously, their Windows 98 partition worked properly. I don't think I have to explain much of my answer!
Seriously, if you think you're technically capable of using Linux, you shouldn't have to ask tech support for help setting it up!
I used to do installs for Cox@home, and IIRC, it loads a network adapter, the same as if you went with a NIC.
Need a Linux consultant in New Orleans?
Just because RoadRunner does not support Windows XP today does not rule it out tomorrow. Remember that a lot of people have Macintoshes, and I don't think that RoadRunner directly supports them either.
This is incorrect. I'm running RoadRunner to a LinkSys EtherFast Cable/DSL Router, which then goes out to my PowerMac G4MP, my PowerMac G3, and my girlfriend's iMac. The RoadRunner techs actually let me do the install on my own machine (since I was moving from DSL) and were basically there to just drill a hole through my floor, give me the equipment and make sure it had enough blinking green lights. The RoadRunner box included a Mac CD that has drivers and an odd little RR Diagnostics tool.
Now, if you're talking about Mac OS X, I'm not sure if they support that yet, but I believe the minimum requirements for RoadRunner were Mac OS 9 (or was it 8.6?) and an ethernet port, USB port, or PCI slot for their NIC.
Incidentally, RoadRunner also works fine on the Linux-Mandrake/Win2k system I have.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
Strange as this may sound, I actually don't know much about them. I grew up with Macs and started using *nix in college. I don't know a lot of the DOS commands and items like that that they had me run.
.. uhhhhh...never heard of it
ifconfig? no prob! OpenAccess/MacTCP? sure! winipconfig
I do know some stuff on NT but I don't have an NT based OS at home. The TCP guts setup is different (and, quite frankly, the only reason it's there is for RR and some games). I'm not going to change it to an NT based OS either because it also serves as my WINE environment (unless WINE supports 2K).
I don't reboot the MacOS machine because that computer serves public FTP, mail, and security logging for my domain. The only reason it has MacOS on it is for BootX (Old-world machine).
- Sig
As I post this, I'm still ticked off about the "tech" that installed dsl yesterday at one of my client's locations. All this dude had to do was run a wire from the demarc to the telephone closet, plug in his router, and run the setup script via his laptop, and prove that we had a valid connection to the net.
He was so incompetent that he knicked the wires when he terminated his line, and had to cut then ends off several times before he got a reliable connection. He didn't know how to open a dos prompt, nor how to stop a ping -t. He would close out the dosbox, then hit start --> run then type his ping command again in the field, and hit ok. He also didn't know how to close his router interface program --- he would kick (there's a great tech-support term, meaning "hard reboot") his laptop, because he couldn't kill his app, nor shut down his win2k laptop.
He was on the phone to the real tech sitting in the CO for about an hour total, asking for them to check the line repeatedly, when all the problems he was having were of his own making. When he finally got one of our boxes on the net, he was ready to leave, and I had to stop him and make him give me the IPs, gateway, etc. info.
I even tried to talk to him a bit, to *gently* give him a little advice, and he got in my face and said to let him "do his job". Luser.
Ok, so I wait until he leaves (he was there for 3 hours), and called the tech support number I made him give me (he still had not told me how to make my server appear on the net --- all we could do is browse from the workstations), and also the number I copied off the side of his van, and both calls netted me promises of return calls by techs, which of course never happened. I don't have a support web site or email address, either. What a ripoff.
The dsl account was "free", a loss leader for some long distance company. 160k sdsl --- almost worthless, actually. And I had big plans of getting my client off domain hosting... *sigh*.
Scary, indeed.
Need a Linux consultant in New Orleans?
For DSL:
Telocity/DirecTV www.directvdsl.com
NEGIA www.negia.com
Atlanta Internet Networks www.atlnet.com
All three of these fully support Linux.
Seán C. McCord
Article: "Road Runner will not provide tech support for XP". ChuckX: "I do Road Runner tech support, and here's a bit more info on why Road Runner will not provide tech support for XP". Moderator: "Offtopic"! WTF!? If there was still any doubt that /. moderation is a bit screwy, there can't be any left now.