This particular phone is still fairly new to me, however the lowest I've managed to get it before bed so far is 40%. My old smart phone which I had for 2 years, I did kill the battery completely on it before bedtime, I'd guess about 3 times (in 2 years).
I have NEVER worried about my "extremely short battery life" because it's never turned out to be a problem despite all the fearmongering I see from people who want to stifle our ability to carry the world at our fingertips, or those who long for 2kg phones. If it REALLY worries you, buy an extended battery (they're available for almost all smart phones if you look on ebay) and although you'll likely never need it, it will give you some peace of mind. Either that or go back to your dumb phone and let the world pass you by.
Ok, let's use your 20.75 plan as an example, once you add the phone (their cheapest phone is $120 without a contract, divide by the 2 years that would get it to you for free on the post paid plan makes it a $5/mo value) that's the equivalent of 25.75, so $1.25 cheaper than the $27/mo post paid plan which has 150 anytime minutes, plus unlimited talk to 5 friends no matter what time you call them.
So if your use case is extremely narrow, and you only call people within a specific 4 hour window each day, and make less than 11 minutes of other calls a month. Then yes, you could save a tiny amount on the pre-paid plan. If the Rogers plan is the same price, it compares even less favourably as they have a higher per minute cost, so it's more like 5 minutes of calls to people other than your five numbers before post-paid is cheaper.
In both those cases you're actually helping prove my point. Sure you can manufacture some extremely specific case where a specific plan is best, but on average the pre-paid plans are all more expensive in the long run then the equivalent (or closest to equivalent) post paid version of the same thing.
a quick check shows otherwise: TELUS: No fees above the price quoted, except GST for both prepaid and post paid. Rogers: Post paid all fees included except GST, pre-paid 75c "non government fee" and GST Bell: Post paid all fees included except GST, pre-paid 75c 911 fee and GST added
So all the three major carriers in Canada are exactly the opposite of what you state.
I won't argue that those laws aren't necessary (though sadly lacking in the USA) however they do make the market less "free", sometimes that's a good thing. But it's not "free"
I think the government does need a role in business (though not the one it currently has) I'm just under no illusion that adding rules adds freedom, only that some rules are necessary for correct functioning.
Unfortunately though, any time consumer protection laws are discussed we hear how anti free market they are. Whereas any time oppressive corporate agendas are pushed it's just the free market in action. It's the double standard that's the problem.
We do need consumer protection laws. We might need trademark laws. We do not need laws making it illegal to do what we wish with products we have purchased.
I didn't say the monthly plans were dishonest, I said the pre-pay plans were dishonest. and pre-pay is what the carrier calls "pay as you go", they're the same thing.
Monthly plans are always pay X, get Y. they are honest that way. Pre-paid plans on the other hand are pay X and get Y, but only if you use Y within a month. so in effect they are the same as monthly plans, but they pretend to be different because you only buy what you need, when in fact they force you to "need" more than you actually do, so much so that you end up paying as much as a monthly plan anyway.
I don't like replying to myself, but I noticed a typo...
TELUS post paid: cheapest plan $25/mo includes 100 minutes, unlimited evenings and weekends minimum 20c/minute, includes a phone on 2yr term TELUS pre paid: cheapest plan $20/mo includes ZERO minutes, unlimited weekends (no evenings), cheap phone about $100 (works out to just over $4/mo over 2 years)
the 20c/minute was supposed to be on the pre-paid line, not the post-paid line.
Of course this thread was specifically about Canada... It's always good to know that we get to inherit all the US problems, while not inheriting the places where they're ahead...
TELUS post paid: cheapest plan $25/mo includes 100 minutes, unlimited evenings and weekends minimum 20c/minute, includes a phone on 2yr term TELUS pre paid: cheapest plan $20/mo includes ZERO minutes, unlimited weekends (no evenings), cheap phone about $100 (works out to just over $4/mo over 2 years) Breakeven point 3minutes a month of daytime or evening calling. Anything over 3 minutes and you were cheaper on the post paid plan.
Bell post paid: cheapest plan $27/mo includes 150 minutes, unlimited talk to 5 friends, unlimited messaging, free phone on 2yr term Bell pre paid: cheapest plan $10.75/mo, 10c/minute, 10c/message, cheap phone about $120 (works out to $5/mo over 2 years) Breakeven point: 112 minutes or texts. Anything over 112 minutes, or 112 texts, or any combination and you were cheaper on the post paid plan.
Rogers post paid: cheapest plan $27/mo includes 150 daytime, unlimited evening minutes, unlimited texting, $10 phone on 2yr term. (less than 50c/mo) Rogers pre paid: cheapest plan $15/mo, 25c/minute + 75c "non government fee", cheap phone about $100, (works out to just over $4/mo over 2 years) Breakeven point 30minutes a month. Anything over 30 minutes and you were cheaper on the post paid plan.
So true, if you don't use your phone at all, all 3 have a cheaper pre paid than post paid option. Bell even has a small window where the pre-paid might be cheaper. TELUS has the cheapest post paid plan, and there's no chance of being cheaper on pre-paid with them, Rogers you'd have to be a VERY light user to be cheaper pre-paid.
We could examine a larger range of plans, but you'll find the same thing throughout. If you take your phone out of the drawer and use it, pre-paid is always more expensive. The carriers want you on post paid for more than just roaming charges, they want the guaranteed revenue stream, it looks much better on their books than pre-paid does. They're willing to give you all sorts of bonuses to make it happen to. You'd be a fool not to take advantage of them.
We had those years ago, but then the companies got wise that people weren't spending as much as if they had a monthly plan, so they made the minutes expire to force people to pay at least as much as it would cost to be on the low end monthly plans. Now the cheapest plans you can get are the 3 yr term contracts with the "free" phones (no such thing as a bring your own device plan)
We have monthly plans, and pre pay plans. The difference is the monthly plans are honest about it. In a monthly plan you pay $X per month to get Y minutes and Z texts in a pre-pay plan you pay $X to get Y minutes and Z texts that expire if you don't use them in a month.
Except that by avoiding the contract, you pay way more per month for service than you do on contract. Companies want you on contract, so the contracts offer more for less than month to month does, every time.
As it stands right now, where I live, the cheapest way to have cellular service is on a 3yr contract with a "free" phone (you pay for it whether you take it or not) Of course add in that you can't even buy an unlocked phone here, if you buy one outright from the carrier, it's still locked, and because it never makes financial sense to buy a phone outright, there's no market for it, so no retailers have appeared to sell these, leaving just the providers. The only exception I know of is the iPhone which you can buy directly from an Apple store unlocked for full price, but they you still have to pay for service which will include the price of a phone anyway.
The biggest problem is that there are no carriers that allow you to bring your own phone without paying the subsidy (Ok, in the USA there is one carrier that does, but the others don't, and where I live there are none). So I can take the "free" phone from the carrier and pay the subsidy every month to cover it's cost, or I can pay full price for a phone, and still pay the subsidy every month as if I had taken the "free" phone. There is no third choice. As a result, there's no reason to ever buy a full price phone. Additionally, because of this, there are extremely few places that even have unlocked phones to sell you, the iPhone being the only one I can think of, all other phones are sold only by the carriers or their authorized retailers, so even if you pay full price and buy the phone outright, it still comes locked to that carrier.
The other question is, why is this even relevant? if I break my contract, I pay a termination fee, so they get the money back anyway. you can't jsut walk away from your 3yr contract as soon as they give you the free phone, you have to pay it out. This all belongs in contract law, not copyright law.
Except that ALL pre-paid services where I live work out more expensive than the post-paid services.
There is no cheaper way to get cell service than with the carrier's "free" phone on a 3yr contract. Not because you don't pay for the phone, but because the carriers make sure you pay for it whether you take it or not, and because the pre-paid contracts cost more per minute and per meg then post-paid, and the minutes and megs expire if you don't use them, ensuring a minimum monthly payment to keep your phone. a monthly payment that is more than a cheap post-paid plan which comes with more features.
Pre-paid plans where I live are for suckers afraid of commitment and willing to pay through the nose to avoid being "locked in" to a cheaper plan.
The problem is that in North America it's almost impossible to find any situation in which the full price phone saves you money. Because in all of North America there is only 1 carrier that allows you to pay less for service if you bring your own phone.
I have no problem with paying full price for a phone, what I have a problem with is paying full price for a phone AND paying more than full price in my contract to cover a phone I could have been given but chose not to. It's cheaper for me to take the "free" phone from the carrier every time.
Apparently the free market has failed in the US, because it was able to buy laws designed to distort it in the phone company's favour.
Americans haven't realized that any law affecting businesses or consumers is by definition the opposite of a free market. Somehow people scream bloody murder about the lack of a free market any time consumer protection laws are talked about, but corporate protectionism is seen as protecting the free market. It's a great double standard if you're a large corporation, not so good for anyone else.
All copyright, patent, and trademark laws are anti free market. (and this cell phone unlocking bit is part of a copyright law) whether some form of IP protection is good is a different matter, but it is not in any way "free market"
I'm confused with your definition of "free" if it includes a 25 euro fee... Of course that's still better than many carriers.
I do know where I live that my provider will unlock your phone for about $35, but only after the end of your 3 yr contract. (or if you buy the phone outright) but I also know that this is far from the norm.
Many corporations are still on XP, so lack of corporate uptake of Windows 8 is to be expected at this stage, even if it were the best OS ever built. corporations are slow to upgrade, that's normal. Of course I'm not giving Windows 8 a pass either, it's a piece of garbage, but the lack of corporate uptake is more directly related to the OS not having been around for a decade yet.
Where are you sleeping on these vacations? if it's a hotel, hostel, RV, or friend's place, it has power. If you're in a tent for days on end, maybe you shouldn't be spending much time on your phone anyway... I find that it is extremely rare to be without power for that long AND in cell coverage, however in the rare circumstance I use one of the following solutions: 1) car charger 2) portable battery pack (about the size of a cell phone, 2-5 charges) 3) realize that it's ok to be without a cell phone some times. (If I'm somewhere without either a car or a wall outlet for days on end, that implies that I'm trying to "get away" In those situations the phone is either at home, or turned off in the bottom of my pack. (and I'm likely outside of any cellular coverage anyway))
Honestly I was worried about battery life of cell phones right up until I got a smart phone with the "short" battery life. After having it for a while though I realized that it has never yet been a problem. And that's coming from someone who spends a lot of time on various overnight/multi-night events, camps and hikes a lot and travels frequently.
I suspect longer than a day, but since it gets plugged in every night anyway, it doesn't matter how long it lasts past that time. Once battery life reaches "until it ends up on a charger anyway" it doesn't matter how much longer than that it could last. I don't understand the people who constantly complain about the battery life of smart phones and state that they expect a phone to last several days on a charge. Why? do you routinely go several days without sleeping? do you normally go several days without being able to spend even an hour without your phone to your head? No. so just realize that having to charge your phone every day or 2 while you're asleep anyway isn't a big deal, and is way more than made up for by having all the features that the dumb phones don't have.
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This particular phone is still fairly new to me, however the lowest I've managed to get it before bed so far is 40%. My old smart phone which I had for 2 years, I did kill the battery completely on it before bedtime, I'd guess about 3 times (in 2 years).
I have NEVER worried about my "extremely short battery life" because it's never turned out to be a problem despite all the fearmongering I see from people who want to stifle our ability to carry the world at our fingertips, or those who long for 2kg phones. If it REALLY worries you, buy an extended battery (they're available for almost all smart phones if you look on ebay) and although you'll likely never need it, it will give you some peace of mind. Either that or go back to your dumb phone and let the world pass you by.
Ok, let's use your 20.75 plan as an example, once you add the phone (their cheapest phone is $120 without a contract, divide by the 2 years that would get it to you for free on the post paid plan makes it a $5/mo value) that's the equivalent of 25.75, so $1.25 cheaper than the $27/mo post paid plan which has 150 anytime minutes, plus unlimited talk to 5 friends no matter what time you call them.
So if your use case is extremely narrow, and you only call people within a specific 4 hour window each day, and make less than 11 minutes of other calls a month. Then yes, you could save a tiny amount on the pre-paid plan. If the Rogers plan is the same price, it compares even less favourably as they have a higher per minute cost, so it's more like 5 minutes of calls to people other than your five numbers before post-paid is cheaper.
In both those cases you're actually helping prove my point. Sure you can manufacture some extremely specific case where a specific plan is best, but on average the pre-paid plans are all more expensive in the long run then the equivalent (or closest to equivalent) post paid version of the same thing.
I left out the option because there is no such plan from any of the major carriers. all minutes expire.
a quick check shows otherwise:
TELUS: No fees above the price quoted, except GST for both prepaid and post paid.
Rogers: Post paid all fees included except GST, pre-paid 75c "non government fee" and GST
Bell: Post paid all fees included except GST, pre-paid 75c 911 fee and GST added
So all the three major carriers in Canada are exactly the opposite of what you state.
I won't argue that those laws aren't necessary (though sadly lacking in the USA) however they do make the market less "free", sometimes that's a good thing. But it's not "free"
I think the government does need a role in business (though not the one it currently has) I'm just under no illusion that adding rules adds freedom, only that some rules are necessary for correct functioning.
Unfortunately though, any time consumer protection laws are discussed we hear how anti free market they are. Whereas any time oppressive corporate agendas are pushed it's just the free market in action. It's the double standard that's the problem.
We do need consumer protection laws. We might need trademark laws. We do not need laws making it illegal to do what we wish with products we have purchased.
I didn't say the monthly plans were dishonest, I said the pre-pay plans were dishonest. and pre-pay is what the carrier calls "pay as you go", they're the same thing.
Monthly plans are always pay X, get Y. they are honest that way.
Pre-paid plans on the other hand are pay X and get Y, but only if you use Y within a month. so in effect they are the same as monthly plans, but they pretend to be different because you only buy what you need, when in fact they force you to "need" more than you actually do, so much so that you end up paying as much as a monthly plan anyway.
I don't like replying to myself, but I noticed a typo...
TELUS post paid: cheapest plan $25/mo includes 100 minutes, unlimited evenings and weekends minimum 20c/minute, includes a phone on 2yr term
TELUS pre paid: cheapest plan $20/mo includes ZERO minutes, unlimited weekends (no evenings), cheap phone about $100 (works out to just over $4/mo over 2 years)
the 20c/minute was supposed to be on the pre-paid line, not the post-paid line.
Of course this thread was specifically about Canada... It's always good to know that we get to inherit all the US problems, while not inheriting the places where they're ahead...
It's hard to say "the free market is a failure" when we have yet to see it in action anywhere.
Not in the USA, but in a country that follows the USA's lead in everything, so I'm sure we'll have your illegal to unlock law soon enough.
Let us test your theory:
TELUS post paid: cheapest plan $25/mo includes 100 minutes, unlimited evenings and weekends minimum 20c/minute, includes a phone on 2yr term
TELUS pre paid: cheapest plan $20/mo includes ZERO minutes, unlimited weekends (no evenings), cheap phone about $100 (works out to just over $4/mo over 2 years)
Breakeven point 3minutes a month of daytime or evening calling. Anything over 3 minutes and you were cheaper on the post paid plan.
Bell post paid: cheapest plan $27/mo includes 150 minutes, unlimited talk to 5 friends, unlimited messaging, free phone on 2yr term
Bell pre paid: cheapest plan $10.75/mo, 10c/minute, 10c/message, cheap phone about $120 (works out to $5/mo over 2 years)
Breakeven point: 112 minutes or texts. Anything over 112 minutes, or 112 texts, or any combination and you were cheaper on the post paid plan.
Rogers post paid: cheapest plan $27/mo includes 150 daytime, unlimited evening minutes, unlimited texting, $10 phone on 2yr term. (less than 50c/mo)
Rogers pre paid: cheapest plan $15/mo, 25c/minute + 75c "non government fee", cheap phone about $100, (works out to just over $4/mo over 2 years)
Breakeven point 30minutes a month. Anything over 30 minutes and you were cheaper on the post paid plan.
So true, if you don't use your phone at all, all 3 have a cheaper pre paid than post paid option. Bell even has a small window where the pre-paid might be cheaper. TELUS has the cheapest post paid plan, and there's no chance of being cheaper on pre-paid with them, Rogers you'd have to be a VERY light user to be cheaper pre-paid.
We could examine a larger range of plans, but you'll find the same thing throughout. If you take your phone out of the drawer and use it, pre-paid is always more expensive. The carriers want you on post paid for more than just roaming charges, they want the guaranteed revenue stream, it looks much better on their books than pre-paid does. They're willing to give you all sorts of bonuses to make it happen to. You'd be a fool not to take advantage of them.
We had those years ago, but then the companies got wise that people weren't spending as much as if they had a monthly plan, so they made the minutes expire to force people to pay at least as much as it would cost to be on the low end monthly plans. Now the cheapest plans you can get are the 3 yr term contracts with the "free" phones (no such thing as a bring your own device plan)
There's a reason you never hear about the pre-paid plans though, it's because they all cost more than the post-paid ones.
There coverage is limited to parts of the cities they operate in, with extremely harsh roaming fees if you venture outside their tiny coverage areas.
Sure I like their plans, but until they build some infrastructure I don't think the major carriers need to worry much.
We have monthly plans, and pre pay plans.
The difference is the monthly plans are honest about it.
In a monthly plan you pay $X per month to get Y minutes and Z texts
in a pre-pay plan you pay $X to get Y minutes and Z texts that expire if you don't use them in a month.
Except that by avoiding the contract, you pay way more per month for service than you do on contract. Companies want you on contract, so the contracts offer more for less than month to month does, every time.
As it stands right now, where I live, the cheapest way to have cellular service is on a 3yr contract with a "free" phone (you pay for it whether you take it or not) Of course add in that you can't even buy an unlocked phone here, if you buy one outright from the carrier, it's still locked, and because it never makes financial sense to buy a phone outright, there's no market for it, so no retailers have appeared to sell these, leaving just the providers. The only exception I know of is the iPhone which you can buy directly from an Apple store unlocked for full price, but they you still have to pay for service which will include the price of a phone anyway.
The biggest problem is that there are no carriers that allow you to bring your own phone without paying the subsidy (Ok, in the USA there is one carrier that does, but the others don't, and where I live there are none). So I can take the "free" phone from the carrier and pay the subsidy every month to cover it's cost, or I can pay full price for a phone, and still pay the subsidy every month as if I had taken the "free" phone. There is no third choice. As a result, there's no reason to ever buy a full price phone. Additionally, because of this, there are extremely few places that even have unlocked phones to sell you, the iPhone being the only one I can think of, all other phones are sold only by the carriers or their authorized retailers, so even if you pay full price and buy the phone outright, it still comes locked to that carrier.
The other question is, why is this even relevant? if I break my contract, I pay a termination fee, so they get the money back anyway. you can't jsut walk away from your 3yr contract as soon as they give you the free phone, you have to pay it out. This all belongs in contract law, not copyright law.
Except that ALL pre-paid services where I live work out more expensive than the post-paid services.
There is no cheaper way to get cell service than with the carrier's "free" phone on a 3yr contract. Not because you don't pay for the phone, but because the carriers make sure you pay for it whether you take it or not, and because the pre-paid contracts cost more per minute and per meg then post-paid, and the minutes and megs expire if you don't use them, ensuring a minimum monthly payment to keep your phone. a monthly payment that is more than a cheap post-paid plan which comes with more features.
Pre-paid plans where I live are for suckers afraid of commitment and willing to pay through the nose to avoid being "locked in" to a cheaper plan.
The problem is that in North America it's almost impossible to find any situation in which the full price phone saves you money. Because in all of North America there is only 1 carrier that allows you to pay less for service if you bring your own phone.
I have no problem with paying full price for a phone, what I have a problem with is paying full price for a phone AND paying more than full price in my contract to cover a phone I could have been given but chose not to. It's cheaper for me to take the "free" phone from the carrier every time.
Apparently the free market has failed in the US, because it was able to buy laws designed to distort it in the phone company's favour.
Americans haven't realized that any law affecting businesses or consumers is by definition the opposite of a free market. Somehow people scream bloody murder about the lack of a free market any time consumer protection laws are talked about, but corporate protectionism is seen as protecting the free market. It's a great double standard if you're a large corporation, not so good for anyone else.
All copyright, patent, and trademark laws are anti free market. (and this cell phone unlocking bit is part of a copyright law) whether some form of IP protection is good is a different matter, but it is not in any way "free market"
I'm confused with your definition of "free" if it includes a 25 euro fee... Of course that's still better than many carriers.
I do know where I live that my provider will unlock your phone for about $35, but only after the end of your 3 yr contract. (or if you buy the phone outright) but I also know that this is far from the norm.
Many corporations are still on XP, so lack of corporate uptake of Windows 8 is to be expected at this stage, even if it were the best OS ever built. corporations are slow to upgrade, that's normal.
Of course I'm not giving Windows 8 a pass either, it's a piece of garbage, but the lack of corporate uptake is more directly related to the OS not having been around for a decade yet.
Where are you sleeping on these vacations? if it's a hotel, hostel, RV, or friend's place, it has power. If you're in a tent for days on end, maybe you shouldn't be spending much time on your phone anyway... I find that it is extremely rare to be without power for that long AND in cell coverage, however in the rare circumstance I use one of the following solutions:
1) car charger
2) portable battery pack (about the size of a cell phone, 2-5 charges)
3) realize that it's ok to be without a cell phone some times. (If I'm somewhere without either a car or a wall outlet for days on end, that implies that I'm trying to "get away" In those situations the phone is either at home, or turned off in the bottom of my pack. (and I'm likely outside of any cellular coverage anyway))
Honestly I was worried about battery life of cell phones right up until I got a smart phone with the "short" battery life. After having it for a while though I realized that it has never yet been a problem. And that's coming from someone who spends a lot of time on various overnight/multi-night events, camps and hikes a lot and travels frequently.
I suspect longer than a day, but since it gets plugged in every night anyway, it doesn't matter how long it lasts past that time.
Once battery life reaches "until it ends up on a charger anyway" it doesn't matter how much longer than that it could last. I don't understand the people who constantly complain about the battery life of smart phones and state that they expect a phone to last several days on a charge. Why? do you routinely go several days without sleeping? do you normally go several days without being able to spend even an hour without your phone to your head? No. so just realize that having to charge your phone every day or 2 while you're asleep anyway isn't a big deal, and is way more than made up for by having all the features that the dumb phones don't have.
I missed the part where the US overthrew the British parliament. They left, they didn't overthrow.