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Lego Accused of Racism With Star Wars Set
Ch_Omega writes "According to this article over at The Telegraph, Lego has been accused of racism by the Turkish community in Austria over a Star Wars model that supposedly resembles one of Istanbul's most revered mosques. The anger was provoked by 'Jabba's Palace,' a model of the home of Jabba the Hutt from Lego's Star Wars product range based on the blockbusting series of science fiction films. 'The terrorist Jabba the Hutt likes to smoke a hookah and have his victims killed,' said the statement posted on the organization's website. 'It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.'"
Is there anything left in the world that the big bad white man hasn't destroyed through 'racism'?
This objection is silly because Jabba's Palace and the Hagia Sophia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia ) don't look much alike at all, other than having a dome, in which case they'd better prepare for a lot more outrage when they start to see other photos of the outside world...
We all know that George Lucas would never stand for anything which smacked of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.
Sucks the life out of everything.
'It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.
I have an Asian girl friend and she can't find anything offensive about this lego set. She showed it to her parents and they didn't see any issue with it and even her grandparents didn't see the issue. So as for it containing racial and prejudice against Asians, well not so much. Just because some people are to sensitive to everyday life doesn't make something offensive, it just makes them to sensitive to live the real world. Clearly someone or some small group got over worked up for no reason ( Like everyone over there does ) and hence we have a racist lego set.
.... that their objection should be with Lucasfilm (or Disney, now, I suppose)... since the concept is actually theirs. All Lego does is license it.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I guess they're cool with the scandalously-dressed females Jabba keeps around, but Allah forbid he actually kills someone to make an example of them. That doesn't sound like any terrorist or criminal organization that exists today in that region of the world.
If Star Wars Legos represent offensive racial stereotypes, then they're an accurate representation of the films. The Phantom Menace was quite striking in its overt caricatures of Japanese (Trade Federation), blacks (Jar-Jar), Jews (the flying blue dude who was Anakin's master). So it doesn't surprise me that Jabba is an offensive caricature of someone, too. Par for the course.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
First, Lego didn't design Jabba's Palace. I'm pretty sure that was under LucasArts' realm.
Second, Jabba's Palace is modeled like all the other homes on Tatooine. Except his is bigger. It's desert design influencing desert design.
Third, Jabba's not the only one smoking from a hookah like device in the movie.
Fourth, omg stop being the dumb.
Go make your argument to Lucasfilm or 20th Century Fox. Lego is just pumping out a model based on IP developed by others, thanks to appropriate (and exclusive) licensing deals -- Lego is not responsible for any resemblance to actual places, persons, or events, implied or otherwise.
the movie. Just saying. Though I guess Jabba does look a little Asian.
Seems someone needs to post a follow-up parody press release comparing Luke and Leia to the Armenians.
Lighten up, Francis
I'm still mad at the makers of Silence of the Lambs for portraying Hannibal Lecter as a Caucasian male. I am a Caucasian male and it's clear that the whole movie the smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Caucasians as people with deceitful and criminal personalities. Movies should stop having bad guys because it always paints some race or culture as having deceitful and criminal personalities and that upsets me.
...were you go. To things:
1) if you have underlying issues with the SW Universe (and there's a few there) go talk to Lucas et al, not Lego;
2) Fuck you, i'm tired of all of you trying to make me live in a bubble.
Huh.
And here I was thinking that Jabba was a caricature of American politicians - fat, stupid, lazy, ready to kill on a whim, and unable to speak anything but nonsensical gibberish.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Why'd they take it I can't say, people just liked it better that way.
What will they say when they see the sand people?
...but I suspect the latter. Why go after Lego rather than Lucasfilm (Disney?), otherwise?
You don't have the copyright on domed buildings and neither does George Lucas.
From TFA: It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.
Orientals have the most violent, deceiftul and criminal personalitites! Duh!
first up, not lego's fault the model is based on jaba's palace designed by Lucus Film and used in the franchise... secondly that's not a Mosque... it was a basilica/cathedral before (and for a longer period of time) it became a mosque. it was built by Christians.
Johnny Cash is also very offended that Darth Vader wears black and is dead.
I don't see any problem with portraying the fat alien who smokes hookah and likes to have people killed in a palace... Especially since the last few years seems to indicate it as the truth in little countries near Turkey that had to get overthrown to get rid of the people in palaces who liked to kill and torture people... I.e. grow up and get some balls people and perhaps some perspective while you're at it. People are going to sell what reflects reality in odd ways like scifi and Legos lol
Now, if only Jabba would accept democracy we could all live in peace and McDonalds would be happy to serve us whatever they think is meat and lots of sugar to increase your likelihood of getting diseases because it is so cheap to feed you processed foods.
The Hagia Sofia was built as an Orthodox Christian Church, and was used as such for a thousand years. It was converted into a mosque when the Turks conquered the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire in 1453, and it's been a museum since 1931. As it's not a Turkish building, they should not be offended. I'm sick of the whining and attempts at playing the victim by some people. It's even more ridiculous that what they are claiming offense at isn't even a building which was built by their culture.
The only bad guys you can safely portray in movies are white guys. So what if Jabba's Palace borrows some architectural, decorational and floral inspirations from the Persians. Having a villain with taste Persian trappings doesn't make any Persian a villain any more than owning a Walther PPK makes you a hero.
Perhaps most villains are white, but not all villians are white. And given that Vader and Palpatine where both very white, and Lando, Chewie, Yoda and R2 weren't, if anything I think it's the corn fed Nebraskans that should be offended.
How do the buildings, hookah, death, jabba-the-hut, or any of this actually have to do with race? If you ask me, ANYONE who claims "RACISM!" is the one that's being racist. Does it mean that if I see someone making fun of chewing tobacco, I get to claim that they're being racist against major league baseball, aka the American spirit? I guess I could, but aren't I then being racist? I've never understood racism, sorry guys.
At least there aren't characters called Sand People. Or short people who deal in shady negotions whose names sound slightly anti-Semitic.
They are also similar in the fact that they live in buildings and both have heads but nobody is complaining about that.
Just try telling the Turks about the Armenian genocide committed by their troops in the early 20th century and you'll see their inner Jabba come out.
Arguable that they have a point, but why blame Lego, they should've accused George Lucas of orientalism back when the film first came out. Have they only just noticed Star Wars? :-/
When they say "Austria's Turkish community" they really mean a small vocal minority thereof. I bet most people in the Austrian Turkish community couldn't care less.
Such stupidity must be some kind of guerilla marketing strategy that Lucasfilm and LEGO are secretly behind to help promote their new product. Straw-man advertising.
hasn't been a mosque for something like 60+ years; it's a museum. and if we want to play the 'well it used to be a mosque so I'm pissed off' game then the christians can say the exact same thing because it was a church for almost 1000 years and it was only a mosque for about 400 years.
This is a Lego Haggia Sophia:
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67199
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
According to the "Behind the Scenes" on Episodes 1-3 Naboo's architecture was based on Hagia Sophia. Examples: Hagia Sophia, Naboo, Titus Blue Mosque, more naboo.
... it took them how long to notice this latent xenophobia? I'm not saying they're wrong, Lucas was a little unimaginative when he developed some of the Star Wars cultures but it's not like he presented Muslims like they did in the movie "True Lies."
Also
My work here is dung.
"'The terrorist Jabba the Hutt likes to smoke a hookah and have his victims killed, and he is not Turkish or arabic at all".
That should do it.
Has anyone bothered to look up the definition of "Racism" or "Racist"
Isn't it considered racist to refer to someone as "Oriental"? It's an adjective for objects not people.
Is only aproblem with USA Orientals, and I think is because they do not know what the word means. In USA the word Asian is reserved only for people you know the different eye, sorry I could not find a better description. In the UK asian is reserved for Indians. example when offer food from that area they could say "do you want Asian or Chinese food" Where they say asian they meant Indian food. Oriental is just latin for eastern and western is occidental
It only looks like a race if you don't bother to think about your religion.
I'd love it if Lego replied:
"We're not portraying the revered Hagia Sophia mosque of Istanbul (which, btw ISN'T EVEN A MOSQUE since it was secularized in 1931)...no, we're portraying the Hagia Sophia CHURCH, the most holy church in Christendom until it was conquered by 'the religion of peace' in 1453."
What's "whiny bitch" in Byzantine?
-Styopa
Stupid people accused of saying stupid things.
Jabba was a crime lord. Mafioso.
But all criminal activity is now terrorism, apparently...
They've not actually seen the FILMS then?
What you have to remember is that there are folk who are professionally outraged all the time, and are looking for ways to monetise that outrage. Or at least get what is in effect a licencing fee out of it.
that the turks have a chip on their shoulder.
'It is clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.'"
It's clear that the ugly figure of Jabba and the whole scene smacks of prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Fat slobbering hooka smoking blivet douche bags.
How does Lego fit into this? The movie has been out for years!
I am a Fat slobbering hooka smoking blivet douche bag, you insensitive bastards!
Rick B.
Offence against religion is NOT racism. You don't have a choice of the dna you are born with, you DO have a choice what you believe in. Just because i offend your beliefs doesn't make me a racist.. and asshole maybe but not racist. There needs to be a change in the law to deal with false accusations of racism. its too easy to level that accusation against someone and there is no recourse for the person being labeled.
It is highly likely that the only "Muslim" offended by this is the slavering madman that resembles this guy that exists only in the mind of some fat white shiny-trousered journalist in SW1W 0DT.
Seriously. There will be no loss in sales by telling them to shove their stupid mosque.
Whoever made the accusation needs to shut the hell up.
We have a Black president, and he just got re-elected and nobody tried to assassinate him or anything. nobody can use race ever again!
Hookah smoking and living in a giant palace that looks extremely muslim isn't Asian, it's Middle Eastern/Arabic. Why would they even say Asian? Are they that stupid that they don't even know their own stereotypes?
This is the same Hagi Sophia that was originally a Christian Basilica, and since 1931 has been secularized and turned into a museum. I don't think you'll find a bigger mongrel of a building anywhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia
How any culture could claim ownership of such a thing is beyond me.
...frown on your shenanigans.
The Star Wars movies, especially the prequels, are riddled with racist undertones that people were too un-PC to realize the offensiveness of at the time. Like Gene Roddenberry's progressiveness, appreciation for the offensiveness in Star Wars will be a series of gifts that will be opened over time for decades to come.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I am also outraged that nowadays due to the current nonsense and silly PC culture, every villain, robber or terrorist has to be portrayed as caucasian, while every single movie has to have a afro-american doctor, police or lawyer...and then what? Is it slows new day here at slashdot?
Where is the guard tower and laser guns? Where are the big green guards with Axes?
Thankfully it's not a rectangle with rounded corners.
smacks of racial prejudice and vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals as people with deceitful and criminal personalities.
Considering in China it's not "Buyer beware" but rather, "If you got taken, it's your own fault", that does appear to insinuate that at least in China, deceitfulness is part of the culture.
As to the criminal personality, almost without exception when the evil Asian female is portrayed, she has long hair. Not that I mind Asian women with long hair (gives you something to hold on to), but it's disconcerting every time I see an Asian female with long hair as my first thought is usually, "How will she try to kill me if I ask her out?"
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
As-ah you know, their brockade of Rego is-ah perfectry regal.
Far be it from Lucas ever to put something culturally insensitive in his movies....As stated by others, this really shouldn't have been an issue. LucasArts designed it, it's only vaguely similar, and everyone can just stop being dumb at any point now.
a LEGO Jabba the Hutt as insulting asians and orientals and completely ignoring Jar Jar Binks, who is at least a *RECENT* example of racial stereotyping in a Star Wars theme. I mean shit the Lego Jabba has been around for over 10 years now (maybe nearing 15), and I imagine even Turkey, nevermind Austria, has had access to the original 3 Star Wars films for at least 20 years.
Obviously much like the fundie Christians this guy is just racism-mongering, but still.
I wonder how they feel about the Tusken Raiders, Klingons, or LOTR Orcs ?
It's like when Iran got upset about the way the movie "300" portrayed Persians as bloodthirsty psychos. I said it then and I'll say it now: Americans are too ignorant to make that connection. Hell, few Americans realize that Iranians are not Arabs. Even fewer will know enough about Turkish architecture to figure out that maybe Jabba's Lego palace looks vaguely like a real palace in Turkey. It really is a silly thing to be upset about.
in regards to Muslim 'good guys' (which I did find kind of funny since they're members of an order protecting against a 'pre-Muslim threat' (IE curse of an Egyptian God.)
But anyhow good guys concerned with protecting the world from an evil their forebears mistakenly wrought.
..."vulgar insinuations against Asians and Orientals"...
But isn't simply using the term "orientals" a bit dated and bigoted in its self? Where is 'The Orient'?
Watto (the flying blue dude) was supposed to be a *JEW*?
I always assumed he was supposed to be some italian stereotype. Kinda a Guido to reference a Greedo as it were.
Man I guess I need to watch it all over again >.
Isn't it considered racist to refer to someone as "Oriental"? It's an adjective for objects not people.
Is only aproblem with USA Orientals, and I think is because they do not know what the word means. In USA the word Asian is reserved only for people you know the different eye, sorry I could not find a better description. In the UK asian is reserved for Indians. example when offer food from that area they could say "do you want Asian or Chinese food" Where they say asian they meant Indian food. Oriental is just latin for eastern and western is occidental
When I was growing up in the US, "Oriental" was perfectly acceptable. I think sometime in the 1980's it was deprecated in favor of "Asian". As you point out, "Oriental" just means "Eastern"; I think it was ruled politically incorrect for Euro-centrism rather than anyone not knowing the meaning of the word.
Re: "the different eye" epicanthic fold
(Sigh...) Some people or groups - well, a LOT of people or groups - either have massive inferiority complexes, or too much time on their hands. They spend their lives looking for things to be offended by. I'm tempted to say we should live up to their expectations; if they think they're having "whatever" done to them, we should go ahead do it. Why take the heat for nothing?
"Lego Turkish Terrorist Playset"
In all honesty, the whole Jabba motif (in the movie) was probably at least partial inspired by Orientalist views of the Middle East as a whole, although not specifically Turkey. It is hardly the most extreme example, which is probably why it hasn't really earned much attention before.
You know, I'd take the claim a hell of a lot more seriously if they hadn't waited so damn long since the first appearance of the character in Episode VI. This whole thing just smacks of BS to me. I don't recall any other "asian" group complaining about Jabba. No, this is all about "appease us or we'll throw a fit!"
I have several Turkish friends, but as a group, the Turks are really whiny and sensitive about their identity and history.
Don't even mention Armenia and all that happened (I believe talking about that in Turkey is a crime).
This is a case of LEGO making something which looks like Star Wars, and the Turks are up in arms due to the resemblance. If you want to take issue with the resemblance, bitch at Lucas who made the original movies.
This is a stupid and misguided thing ... it's a building with a domed roof, which may or may not bear resemblance to something in Turkey, but which was modeled after something in Star Wars.
Unfortunately, Turkey can't decide if it wants to be a modern democracy, or a place where it's illegal to criticize Islam or the Turkish leader.
The people in this article are idiots who are going after the wrong people. And they mostly reflect the Turkish tendency to choose their own version of reality.
I had no idea mosques were a race.
We have JJ Abrams to thank going into the future for unifying the ideals of Trek and Wars into probably 'Star Travel', where luke skywalker and james t kirk together battle the forces of racism and progressivism in order to have bring balance back to the world :D
Neutrality for all and for all a neutral statement!
The asian trade ambassadors? Jar Jar? Yup, Jabba. Of course, anything Samuel L. Jackson is in.
Oriental people are from the Orient.
That sounds kind of self-evident, but you're right regarding the British use of Asian, although it could be Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan or possibly Indonesian. Similary 'Oriental' tends to infer non-Asians from the East - Oriental restaurants tend to be Chinese or Thai.
Both terms are imprecise, and people will 'go out for an Indian' and happily eat Pakistani, Indian or Brummie* food without worrying about its ethnogeographic antecedants.
* Note that many British dishes sold in 'Indian' restaurants were developed and became popular in Birmingham. The real one, not that weird one in America. Where Brummies speak Brummie, a language nobody on the wrong side of the Atlantic can comprehend (or indeed, many people on this side either). Indeed, a drunk Brummie can be less intelligible than a Glaswegian or a Geordie (neither of whom require the adjective 'drunk' due to stereotypical assumptions regarding their natural state).
See above
There's a joke about Turks in Space in here somewhere, but I'm too lazy to find it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808240/?ref_=sr_1
I believe the word you're looking for is epicanthic fold.
But, that forgets the fact that many Russians are Asian, because that's the continent they're on.
Which mostly just shows that these categories aren't always obvious, because ... well, because it's complicated and doesn't match up with our neat little boxes.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Rugs are oriental. The people come from Asia.
...and culture clash. Also, possibly trolling.
The original text at www.turkischegemeinde.at also mentions that:
Erschreckend ist auch die rot-schwarze Teufels-Fratze auf der Schachtel rechts oben, die zumindest ein augenfÃlliges Signal ist, dass das Spiel nicht unter dem Christbaum am Weihnachtsabend - Auch Türken feiern Weihnachten - liegen sollte.
Translation:
Also frightening is a grotesque red-and-black devil's face in the right corner of the box, which is at least an obvious hint that the toy is not something one should lay down under the (Christmas) tree on Christmas Eve - Turks celebrate Christmas too.
The "red-black devil's face" is a drawing of - you guessed it - Dart Maul.
Now to me that indicates that the article was written by someone who hasn't actually seen (at least) Episode I, or quite possibly hadn't had ANY contact with the Star Wars franchise until now.
And yes, however unbelievable that may seem to us - there are people out there who've managed to live through the last couple of decades without actually watching or having any interest in Star Wars.
Or science fiction.
Or movies.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Those who attempt cultural war with America quickly find themselves protesting from around a mouth full of double cheeseburger.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Austrian, and Lego is a Danish company... I don't see how any of this involves the US at all :)
So shut your Amero-centric piehole. Or at least stuff something big and greasy in it to shut you up :D
So, their big beef is that the building is being stereotyped? Man, we have officially run out of shit to bitch about...
Nice rant, but sadly history completely contradicts it.
For example, the Golden Age of Jews in Europe occurred under Muslim rule in Spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_the_Iberian_Peninsula
Jews under Christian rule have generally been treated much worse.
It is only recent radicalization that has caused the problems.
Most of the sites that you reference put forth a point of view that is just as intolerant, radical and ultimately destructive as that of the radical Islamists.
The idea that the US should adopt a set of laws that specifically prohibits Sharia Law is ludicrous. The Constitution of the United States of America and it's provisions based on the principles of the Enlightment is the correct approach. If something needs to be reinforced it should be provisions against ANY radical religious based laws, Christian, Muslim, Confucian and so on.
At one point, everybody was looking for the DC sniper as a "Caucasian male driving a white utility van". That's the psychotic white guy stereotype.
It turned out to be two Black guys in a dark sedan with the trunk modified to conceal the shooter.
To be fair, Star Wars uses a lot of cultural and racial stereotypes. Jabba the Hutt is similar to the stereotypical oriental crime lords of early 20th century fiction: He's obese and lies comfortably on pillows, smokes what looks like a water pipe, has a scantily dressed white slave (Leia), and so on. I don't see it as racism; I see it as creating a sense of familiarity by playing on imagery that floats around in the collective consciousness.
Well said. In addition to the strategy of deflection, much of what apologists for Islamic hegemonism say reflects projection - they accuse others, especially Jews, of doing what they themselves do or would do.
asian/orientals are short and skinny with black hair. get your sterotypes right people!
I had never heard of anyone considering the word "Oriental" as racist until a few weeks ago when I made an off-hand remark where I was referencing certain elements of eastern culture and style.
I was flabbergasted that people thought of this as offenseve. FFS, the word means Eastern. I'm baffled by the sensitivity of some people.
Odd but 100 years ago someone with discriminating tastes was a gentleman who could tell quality from dross, now it is only a negative term.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Yeah, totally, except... no. http://imgur.com/hVRB7Zl
The Telegraph is a British paper, where Chinese are not Asian, they are Chinese. "Asian" there means Indian, Pakistani, Persian, etc, all the way to apparently include Turkish people. Turkey is asia minor on some maps, and whether is is Europe or Asia or both or neither is disputed by argumentative geographers.
In the US, Asian means generally people from Asia, but usually Indians are called out as specifically Indian (and Sikhs as Sikhs, Pakistanis as Pakistani, Iranians as Iranian and rarely as Persian, etc.) Awkward for some, because American Indians still mostly refer to themselves as Indian as well (I have Navaho cousins living on the rez, don't start with me - Native American is a polictically correct invention that does not have mainstream acceptance amongst actual Indians, who often regard their New Age-y admirers with contempt. For the brits out there, calling them "Red Indians" or such is likely to be met with amusement initially, then with rising disgust if you keep it up).
Wait. You mean to tell me that Asians and Orientals are NOT people with deceitful and criminal personalities
"We live in an age of apologies. Apologies, false or true, are expected from the descendants of empire builders, slave owners, persecutors of heretics and from men who, in our eyes, just got it all wrong. So, with the age of 85 coming up shortly, I want to make an apology. It appears I must apologize for being male, white and European." --Alec Guinness
This gets people up in arms? After LEGO had SPACE POLICE chasing around black people in the 90s?
It looks to me like someone has a guilty conscience. Or it just might be that they feel that they can identify with the stereotype and don't want to be publicly called out on it.?
Did they really just make a complaint about a lego set being "racist" while referring to Asian people as "Orientals?"
"Oriental" is a term that describes OBJECTS. Not people. A rug can be Oriental. A PERSON is Asian.
LEGO probably seeded this protest themselves in order to gain some publicity.
They will probably get a sales boost too, since people will scramble to buy these sets before they are banned.
If the shoe fits......
“We regret that the product has caused the members of the Turkish cultural community to come to a wrong interpretation, but point out that when designing the product only the fictional content of the Star Wars saga were referred to.”
I wouldn't go down that route. Saying that your toy can't be bad because it's based on a movie doesn't exactly eliminate blame, it just shifts it. Pretty soon, the entire Star Wars franchise will be an attack on the Muslim people.
Feel the power of the Dark Side!
The Hagia Sofia "Mosque" was built by CHRISTIANS. Just look at the
name Hagia Sofia means "Holy Spirit". Yeah, after the Muslims conquered
Turkey, it was turned into a mosque. As of now, according to Wikipedia,
it's a museum. None of this sounds racist to me. Get a life people.
non recursive link
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
If you have a problem with the depiction of Jabba's palace, why are you blaming Lego? Did they create Jabba's palace? No, George Lucas and his design team did. I think they missed the boat on this complaint by a couple of decades.
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
What's the government trying to hide this time?
then somebodies racist but not Lego Or nobody is , but still not Lego
Nice rant, but sadly history completely contradicts it.
Actually history supports my position. What you have done is take the pre-Ghazali "Golden Age" of ijtihad and asserted it applies today. It does not, that Golden Age was shut down the Caliphs 700 years ago because the questions started to get too uncomfortable for the clerics (eg. when you look at the doctrines closely you see they are contradictory to their claims, inconsistent within its parts and actually provide justification for evil). Therefore you have presented selected historical facts but completely ignore later history where ijtihad is severely restricted and is apostasy to question Islam (as in, Islam must be obeyed without question is a *core doctrine*, fortunately often ignored but progressively is being clamped down on). So you are incorrect - at best out of ignorance, at worst from being disingenuous.
It is only recent radicalization that has caused the problems.
That is a popular narrative but it is false. Sharia is core Islamic doctrine. All four Sunni and the Shia schools of jurisprudence agree on this. Blaming it on 'extremists' is a false narrative that deflects the real issue. That Sharia is a totalitarian, theocratic, supremicist political ideology. Now what you call 'extremists' are simply more devout adherents to the *core doctrine*. What you call 'moderates' are less devout adherents to the *core doctrine* (which technically makes these moderates 'apostates' and in line to be subjugated or killed like the rest of us, hence the 20000 fatal jihadi attacks since 9/11, most of them Muslim-on-Muslim).
Most of the sites that you reference put forth a point of view that is just as intolerant, radical and ultimately destructive as that of the radical Islamists.
These sites are intolerant of Sharia attempts to subvert Enlightenment Liberties and ideals. You are all for this subversion, yes? that's why you try silence opposition to Sharia/Islam. I am totally against the 'stealth jihad' of creeping Sharia - which perhaps you are not aware of because you unthinkingly swallow CAIR propaganda that Islam today is like it was 1000 years ago (it's not!). You don't like those sites because they are *factual* and these facts are incompatible with your worldview (that is, your worldview is counter-factual and does not correspond to reality). Look at the facts, look at the evidence these sites provide. If you follow the Scientific Method you will have to drop your current deluded worldview and adopt the worldview presented by those sites. Islam (specifically Sharia) is the problem. The Golden Age of Islam disappeared 700 years ago and the current and goal of Islam (as stated by the 57 country Organization of Islamic Conference, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, Hamas) all agree that it is time to shut down the Golden Age of Enlightenment Civilization and impose Sharia instead. Look at the facts, this is exactly what is happening in the World. You preach tolerance (which is an excellent thing) but being tolerant of the intolerant (eg Sharia) is simplistic foolishness often seen among the detached ideologues of the political Left (look at how it worked out for Neville Chamberlain; you are following his exact line of reasoning; do you want to follow his path?).
The idea that the US should adopt a set of laws that specifically prohibits Sharia Law is ludicrous.
You obviously haven't been following case law in the US at all. An increasing number of cases have been decided taking Sharia into account - and Sharia always wins over previous Constitutional ideals. Futhermore the US First Amendment guarantees Free Speech yet the media are Sharia-compliant and never criticize Islam, and never ever mention that Sharia doctrine is the motivation of over 90% of terrorist attacks worldwide; the Obama Administration has instructed the Pentagon and FBI with a censor list where *t
True. That's especially true with regard to sexual matters!
I find your judging people based on knowledge of Disney movies disturbing. Lucasfilm's parent company is a known enemy of free culture.
see that mosque looks like jabba's palace, get over it.
see jabba's palace looks like that mosque, get over it.
see it works either way, get over it.
I actually lived in Tunisia long before I ever saw Star Wars, I once saw the underground dugout style houses with my own eyes, and I have been out to see the edges of the Sahara, and I did not imagine they were portraying a caricature of any of it when I saw Tatooine for the first time. Something about it was slightly different you know....
It's because of ti's use as a pejorative in the US for a fee decades.
It's the same reason 'Nigger' isn't used. It'd self just mean people from Africa, but a number of decades of brutal slavery and using it to treat a human as an object kind of made it taboo.
Hopefully, some day, it will loose it's power over people.
It's not the uncommon when someone, or people, do something brutal then some affectation they had also become taboo. See 'Toothbrush moustache'
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As the Ghost of Ben said to Yoda...
Oh, get over yourself.
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No one says anything about Asians, they are a great people. It's the arabs, those sand maggots, that are the terrorists, murderers, and rapists of this world, that have contributed nothing but blood, filth, violence, and lies.
Everyone talking about this need to realize the Muslims that have come around since about 1950 are a completely different mind set then those from years before.
religious zealotry taking control in many mid east country's in the 50, 60s and 70s is what has cause the current problems.
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"That is a popular narrative but it is false. Sharia is core Islamic doctrine. All four Sunni and the Shia schools of jurisprudence agree on this. Blaming it on 'extremists' is a false narrative that deflects the real issue. That Sharia is a totalitarian, theocratic, supremicist political ideology."
no, it is not.
What we have no is the result of religious zealotry taking hold in the mid east in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
What you are forgetting that in 'core religious doctrine' gets interpreted and enforces in a piecemeal fashion depending on what the readers wants to see.
The Bible is Core Doctrine to Christians, and yet it's only followed in a piecemeal fashion.
Even people who say it s'literal' don't treat it that way.
And this is true of every faith based doctrine.
The rest of your post is jabbering nonsense.
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Muslims love to take over Jewish and/or Christian sites, desecrate them, then convert them into mosques.... and then they scream if anybody says anything about it or tries to undo it or if they can find some other way to feign outrage using it. This is just like a cat marking territory. Hagia Sophia was a Christian facility when built... they took it over, trashed it, then added some minaret towers and converted it to a mosque. They did the same thing on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem; The Temple Mount was the site of the Jewish temple in Biblical times, then long after it was sacked by the Romans a Christian church was built there to mark and preserve the site and for worshippers..... and then the Muslims took it over, trashed the church and built the Mosque. Now, if any non-muslim goes onto the mount and tries to pray the muslims riot and kill people. (They generally riot if a Jew even goes up onto the Jewish Temple mount even without religious activity). They extend this animalistic behavior toward other faiths too on some occasions .... remember the Taliban destruction of the Hindu statues? how about the recent demands by the salafists that the ancient Egyptian sites be torn down?
In the US, PC Culture came down REALLY heavy on the term Oriental.
You cannot use it here, at all. Even for Rugs, or someone will give you an odd look.
It's essentially a banned word
no, it is not. What we have no is the result of religious zealotry taking hold in the mid east in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Nope. We had extended hudna while the Islamic world was weak and the West strong. The Muslim Brotherhood was found in 1928, the Caliphate (abolished by Kemal Ataturk in 1924) was established half a millenium before that. Before the Turks were various other Caliphs (Abbasids, Ummayyids) of Arab or Egyptian extraction. All with the same agenda.
What you are forgetting that in 'core religious doctrine' gets interpreted and enforces in a piecemeal fashion depending on what the readers wants to see.
You analysis fails because you are confusing scripture with core religious doctrine. Old Testament scripture is brutal but only a few Christian fundamentalists follow its teachings. After the Reformation the doctrines of Christianity have been moving away from that. The core doctrine of Christianity these days is not too dissimilar to the Golden Rule of the Greeks (expressed as "Do unto others ...), plus Christianity adds in "Love thy enemies", "Turn the other cheek" and "Love they neighbour". These rules do not apply to Islam, either in its scriptures or in the core doctrine accepted by the mainstream today. Your trying to make the *political ideology* (with a little bit of supernatural sprinkled on top) of Islam equivalent to the other two Abrahamic religions (fallacies in my book) is just plain wrong. It shows you have never actually read the Qur'an or hadiths. You'd be horrified if you did. It is all "Old Testament" style stuff. In fact, a statistical analysis shows that the Qur'an and hadiths contain more hate speech than Mein Kampf. The only reason you are defending this is because you are actually ignorant of Islam. Please do your homework before you embarrass yourself again.
Here's an analysis of the legal basis for jihad under Sharia. Watch the video before you comment (otherwise you are wasting both our time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsArto3UVT0 [nb: skip the first 52 seconds, there is a blank intro for this left]
I understand you want to promote tolerance and understanding. That's cool. But please, before you shoot off your mouth at least try and investigate the facts. I'm trying to get *moral people* to understand what is going on *based on the facts*, not on the popular (and utterly mistaken) narrative. You are repeating the false narrative (I understand your argument, and have more facts, which is why I know it is wrong).
The villain of the entire series is a 7-foot tall deep-voiced black guy, and the hero is some 5-foot-6 corn-fed midwestern scrawny white kid, and they're complaining that a figure modeled after some extra in a lego set is Star Wars' biggest crime in racism?
I sense a disturbance in the force
They have a problem with the character of Jabba the Hutt...so they're suing LEGO.
Okay. I have stepped off the edge of the world...
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
It would take a bunch of blockheads to sue LEGO... (lame i know)
A religion is not a race; that is stereotyping and possibly being racist to the others in the religion by not acknowledging their membership because of their race. Isn't that place a museum or christian in the 1st place?
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The Christian bible also promotes all sorts of viciousness, but thankfully most Christians have the common sense to selectively ignore these parts ... but if we take a stand against Islam based on its literal teachings then we must do so for the Bible too, in which case we'd have a problem (e.g. consider this quote from Deut 20: "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby").
What we should take a stand against is only the elements that violate the rights of others, and ban those. So it would be wrong and simplistic to 'ban Sharia' but it would be appropriate to ban particular behaviors that might fall under it, e.g. forcing women to be covered if they don't want to, or whatever. It would be wrong to ban the Bible but appropriate to ban forced labor or taking women as 'plunder'.
We don't ban religions, we ban certain types of behavior that violate the natural rights of others. If some members of a religion don't like that, it's up to them to reconcile their religion with human rights.
My other UID is three digits.
Where is the outrage that the Ottoman Turks whitewashed over a church and are now using it as a foothold to attack Star Wars?
An insult to Star Wars, Star Wars Mythology, and Star Wars Architecture.
The mere suggestion that other buildings look like Jabba's Palace is ridiculous, because there is only one Jabba's Palace.
"Look, we have a dome too". Pffff.
Privacy is terrorism.
I guess that Jabba's a white guy rich enough to delude himself into believing that he is living the life of Persian Roylty. Just one look at him and you say that isnt right or that isn't native to this world!So he is a foriegner livin the stero type baby!
It shocks me that everyone points out that the golden age of the Jews was under the Moors and then completely omits that the Ferdinand and Isabella that became suddenly richer under the Spanish Inquisition were the Ferdinand and Isabella that funded Columbus.
I guess some facts are just too uncomfortable to tie together. Yes, the New World was built not just on the backs of African slaves and native American slaves, but on the backs of Muslims, Jews, and non-Catholic Christians in Spain, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_the_Iberian_Peninsula
Compare some names and dates. Even after the end of the Golden Age, the Inquisition had a huge impact on deteriorating the quality of life (or even ending the lives) of Jews.
This is all hundreds of years ago, though, and really shouldn't be held against people living today.
Orientalism is very much a reality through western conditioning, and it is an outside view of Turkey and other Oriental countries perpetrated by the grand tours a couple of centuries ago.
Jabba the Hutt is a good example of orientalism in post modern times, so I agree with the argument.
However, it is not racist. It is a geographical area ascribed mystique and lawlessness which modern Turkey benefits from by tourism. (I've only been to Istanbul but the theme was recurring.)
Turkey especially is a hub for trade and the mixing of peoples and beliefs, illegal immigrants waiting to (re-)enter Europe, and this is a breeding ground of adventure, romance, making money and having dreams; or perhaps I just drink the orientalist koolaid.
Prejudiced? Yes. But racist? I can't really say how.
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As in... Americans?
They are foreigners where I live so...
The issue here is not with Lucas using traditionally exaggerated Hollywood representations of various races and cultures for inspiration - it's about people seeing those representations through the prism of the hostile media effect.
I.e. Is Watto a Jew or an Arab?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens