One question I have to ask is, how did you fall in love with the NeXT interface? Have you ever used it? I'm just asking because I used to follow WindowMaker development, but I got the impression the developers weren't interested in accurately reimplementing the NeXT UI so much as just using NeXT for inspiration but, ultimately, doing pretty much whatever they wanted. Of course, that was a couple years ago, so things may have changed. Anyway, my point is that the NeXTish stuff you can see on Linux does not, IMHO, really give a good idea of the NeXT UI. I think the problem is that many of the linux/afterstep/windowmaker people have never actually used NextStep. (I have OpenStep 4.2/Mach on my Intel box, in case you're wondering.) In my opinion, that's not necessarily a bad thing. NextStep is great for making screenshots that LOOK really good, but I think the actual interface kinda sucks. It's a lot like using a Macintosh actually (that shouldn't be surprising, considering Apple engineers made the NeXT.) The window system doesn't do multiple instances of programs. There is one main menu that is shared between all GUI programs. When a program doesn't have the focus, all its little pop-up windows (or helper windows, or modal windows, or whatever they're called) are hidden. For example, if you're looking at a File Viewer window, and you open the Workspace Help window and the File Inspector panel, when you switch to another application, the Help window and the Inspector panel window are hidden, but the File Viewer window remains visible. When you switch back, those windows reappear. Personally, I find it irritating the way windows are constantly appearing and disappearing.
And the mouse sensitivity under NextStep really sucks.
Any of them would be happy to sell you a NeXT box for a few hundred bucks. Also, look at the software at Black Hole, Inc. If you're a student, you can get NextStep for under a hundred bucks, if I remember right.
Silicon Graphics, in my opinion, had a nice little logo. I liked the bent-chrome-bar box logo they had. Of course, now they're just "SGI": Servers, Graphics, and Ignominy. ugh.
If you're just interested in actually running Linux (or FreeBSD, or whatever, thankfully we still have choices) without needing the warm fuzzy feeling of having a multi-billion-dollar corporation tell you it's okay (like I assume many businesses still do), this is nothing new. I've always liked the design of the ThinkPad (IMO, they have the nicest keyboard of all laptops I've seen, and I like the little pointer thingie better than the touchpad, but of course that's subjective), but if you're not bothered by purchasing a computer from a lower-profile vendor, getting a laptop without OS or Microsoft tax has been an option for a while.
Companies like ARM Computer, Chembook, KeyData, and Ergo Computing are already willing to sell you a laptop computer with linux-compatible hardware, without any Microsoft software, and without charging you the Microsoft tax. Generally, ditching Windows will save $50-$100.
Of course, you're on your own to make sure that the hardware they sell is actually compatible with linux, but on the other hand, I get the impression this is easier from these companies anyway because they are more forthcoming with technical specs and because they are too small to push any proprietary crap on their customers (MWave....).
I'm also disappointed that Open Hardware hasn't gotten more attention. Since I only want to buy hardware from vendors smart enough to open their specs, I have trouble find hardware that is acceptable.
As a result, I've been thinking about doing a web-based "hardware shitlist", that is, a listing of hardware vendors and their various levels of friendliness to open systems, e.g. everywhere from Open Hardware-certified hardware with GPL'd or BSD'd driver source, to companies who only provide binary drivers or no Linux or BSD drivers at all and release specs only under NDA, to companies who outright tell linux developers to go screw themselves. What do you think? Would this be a useful resource? If so, I will begin implementation shortly (read: after finals).
"Compaq is realizing how much time and $$ Digital poured into the Alpha. Giving up on that would be pissing money down the toilet."
Actually this is a common economic misconception. An economist would say this is a sunk cost. It is money that has already been spent and cannot be recovered, and therefore it should not be a factor in considering future investments. The MBA's at Compaq surely know this. The point is that Compaq will only continue putting money into Alpha if they think they can make a profit on it (technically, if the project has a positive net present value: the discounted value of future income minus cost.)
sorry, i'm waxing pedantic just to prove to myself that i actually learned something when i tortured myself with all those econ classes.
I'm sorry you bought a laptop with that chipset when you want to run something on it other than Windows. The Laptop Linux page has links to some information on getting that chipset to work (I'm sorry I can't be more specific off the top of my head. I just remember finding the info by following links off www.linux.org). Unfortunately, they appear to be hacks at best, unless you want to buy XiG's laptop Accelerated-X product (which is rather expensive). Metrolink's Metro-X does NOT currently supported the Rage LT.
I'm currently looking to buy a laptop, and I had to rule out a lot of models just because of that damned chipset.
I found this on http://support.atitech.ca/faq/unix.html, and I thought it summed up ATI's braindead policy quite nicely:
"ATI's 3D Register Specifications are considered proprietary and confidential, and as such have NOT been made available to 3rd party software developers.
"3D acceleration support is currently limited to those drivers which are written by ATI to operate in Windows 98, Windows 95 and Windows NT.
"At this time, ATI has no intention of writing 3D Accelerated drivers for any UNIX Environment. We also have no intention of releasing the proprietary information required to implement a 3D driver."
Yeah, they're talking about 3D support, not 2D for X Windows, but I think it still says quite a lot about them. If you check Alan Cox's video4linux homepage, you'll see that ATI is just as enlightened with regard to their TV products: "Owing to repeated refusal by ATI to provide any useful documentation the ATI TV card is not supported. I strongly recommend you look at non ATI card combinations if you want TV on PC"
In short, ATI appears a braindead, backward-looking, Free Unix-unfriendly company. Do not buy ATI products.
To anyone else still looking for a laptop, many smaller vendors I've found are quite cooperative with users of non-Windows OS's. They sell laptops with Linux- or FreeBSD-compatible hardware, and are willing to sell machines without Windows on them and lower the price.
Also, watch out for the ESS Maestro-2 audio chipset. As far as I know, it is not yet supported under Linux, but it is very popular in newer laptops. (Sorry if I'm drifting off topic; it's just that I've had wade through a lot of laptop info in the last two weeks in search of a linux-compatible laptop from a vendor who won't force Windows and other useless crap on me. I'd rather keep that hundred bucks, thank you very much Microsoft.)
My roommate has a MS Natural, and I have the Adesso TruForm. Ordered mine from pcconnection.com. It was ~$20 cheaper than roommate's MS; it has full-size movement keys (cursors, PgUp, etc.), full-size Function keys; it allows you to tilt up the front instead of the back (more comfortable for me anyway).
Not so sure yet about the quality. It works okay overall, but my right Ctrl keycap is loose after two months of use.
The element [Promethium] has applications as a beta source for thickness gages, and it can be absorbed by a phosphor to produce light.
Light produced in this manner can be used for signs or signals that require dependable operation; it can be used as a nuclear-powered battery by capturing light in photocells which convert it into electric current.
Well, okay, maybe this isn't all that common; but at least it could be used for something:
Such a battery, using 147Pm, would have a useful life of about 5 years.
Promethium shows promise as a portable X-ray source, and it may become useful as a heat source to provide auxiliary power for space probes and satellites.
'"OEMs are completely free today to ship any OS they choose. There is no provision in any of our contracts telling OEMs they can't ship something else" or even a so-called "naked" system without any operating system preloaded.'
uh-huh, sure. I called Dell to inquire about the Inspiron 7000 laptop. I told the guy I didn't want Windows, wouldn't use it, and would immediately install Linux or FreeBSD upon receipt of computer. He said that he would be willing to ship me one with a blank hard-drive, i.e. NO Windows, but HE WOULD CHARGE ME THE SAME. So they can ship 'a so-called "naked" system', as long as they still force the hapless consumer, ME, to pay for a copy of frigging Windows that I won't even receive.
Let me write that again: they would charge me for a product that I did not want and that they would not deliver.
I could build my own desktop computer, but I can't build my own laptop, and I can't buy a laptop without paying the MS tax (unless I were rich and could buy a SPARC laptop for 12 grand). The result: I gave up and bought no laptop.
Oh well, I'm sure billionaire Michael Dell won't miss my 2400 bucks, but maybe someday it will matter.
I too have been looking for a "real" Unix box to run Unix or Linux on. SGI's are nifty, but don't run linux well yet (they're working on it: http://www.linux.sgi.com). Check out www.reputable.com for SGI Indy's, O2's, Indigos, etc. Also see www.mce.com.
www.SolarisCentral.org has a collection of links (under "/sparc") to used/refurbished Sun machine resellers.
Realistically, could SGI port Irix to Intel chips?
Could they maybe port 4Dwm, Indigo Magic Desktop (do they still have that?), the GUI sysadmin tools (which I've heard are good), the multimedia stuff, and all the 3D stuff to Linux or a BSD to get an Irix-like Unix environment running on one of those Intel boxes?
--ccg, who is ignorant of all things Irix but will never buy an SGI to run NT.
Slashdot Mirror
What's a noop?
So which IMAP client do you suggest for Windows?
Thanks,
ccg
And the mouse sensitivity under NextStep really sucks.
Okay, enough of my opinions, let me offer some real info. "I would love to have a NeXT machine but they are rather hard to come by these days...." Actually, that's wrong. NeXT machines are easy to get these days, because nobody wants them. Check out these sites:
Spherical Solutions (www.orb.com)
Black Hole Inc. (www.blackholeinc.com)
Deep Space Tech (www.deepspacetech.com)
Any of them would be happy to sell you a NeXT box for a few hundred bucks. Also, look at the software at Black Hole, Inc. If you're a student, you can get NextStep for under a hundred bucks, if I remember right.
Here are a couple more links that you might find useful:
http://www3.pair.com/mccarthy/nextstep/
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit
I hope something in here was helpful
ccg
chad at glendenin dot org
Silicon Graphics, in my opinion, had a nice little logo. I liked the bent-chrome-bar box logo they had. Of course, now they're just "SGI": Servers, Graphics, and Ignominy. ugh.
ccg
chad @ glendenin . org
Companies like ARM Computer, Chembook, KeyData, and Ergo Computing are already willing to sell you a laptop computer with linux-compatible hardware, without any Microsoft software, and without charging you the Microsoft tax. Generally, ditching Windows will save $50-$100.
Of course, you're on your own to make sure that the hardware they sell is actually compatible with linux, but on the other hand, I get the impression this is easier from these companies anyway because they are more forthcoming with technical specs and because they are too small to push any proprietary crap on their customers (MWave....).
chad at glendenin dot org
I'm also disappointed that Open Hardware hasn't gotten more attention. Since I only want to buy hardware from vendors smart enough to open their specs, I have trouble find hardware that is acceptable.
As a result, I've been thinking about doing a web-based "hardware shitlist", that is, a listing of hardware vendors and their various levels of friendliness to open systems, e.g. everywhere from Open Hardware-certified hardware with GPL'd or BSD'd driver source, to companies who only provide binary drivers or no Linux or BSD drivers at all and release specs only under NDA, to companies who outright tell linux developers to go screw themselves. What do you think? Would this be a useful resource? If so, I will begin implementation shortly (read: after finals).
Thanks,
ccg
"Compaq is realizing how much time and $$ Digital poured into the Alpha. Giving up on that would be pissing money down the toilet."
Actually this is a common economic misconception. An economist would say this is a sunk cost. It is money that has already been spent and cannot be recovered, and therefore it should not be a factor in considering future investments. The MBA's at Compaq surely know this. The point is that Compaq will only continue putting money into Alpha if they think they can make a profit on it (technically, if the project has a positive net present value: the discounted value of future income minus cost.)
sorry, i'm waxing pedantic just to prove to myself that i actually learned something when i tortured myself with all those econ classes.
--ccg
chad at glendenin dot org
I'm currently looking to buy a laptop, and I had to rule out a lot of models just because of that damned chipset.
I found this on http://support.atitech.ca/faq/unix.html, and I thought it summed up ATI's braindead policy quite nicely:
"ATI's 3D Register Specifications are considered proprietary and confidential, and as such have NOT been made available to 3rd party software developers.
"3D acceleration support is currently limited to those drivers which are written by ATI to operate in Windows 98, Windows 95 and Windows NT.
"At this time, ATI has no intention of writing 3D Accelerated drivers for any UNIX Environment. We also have no intention of releasing the proprietary information required to implement a 3D driver."
Yeah, they're talking about 3D support, not 2D for X Windows, but I think it still says quite a lot about them. If you check Alan Cox's video4linux homepage, you'll see that ATI is just as enlightened with regard to their TV products: "Owing to repeated refusal by ATI to provide any useful documentation the ATI TV card is not supported. I strongly recommend you look at non ATI card combinations if you want TV on PC"
In short, ATI appears a braindead, backward-looking, Free Unix-unfriendly company. Do not buy ATI products.
To anyone else still looking for a laptop, many smaller vendors I've found are quite cooperative with users of non-Windows OS's. They sell laptops with Linux- or FreeBSD-compatible hardware, and are willing to sell machines without Windows on them and lower the price.
So far, I have gotten positive responses from several vendors, including Chembook, KeyData, ARM Computer, FOSA, Ergo Computing, and DFI.
Also, watch out for the ESS Maestro-2 audio chipset. As far as I know, it is not yet supported under Linux, but it is very popular in newer laptops. (Sorry if I'm drifting off topic; it's just that I've had wade through a lot of laptop info in the last two weeks in search of a linux-compatible laptop from a vendor who won't force Windows and other useless crap on me. I'd rather keep that hundred bucks, thank you very much Microsoft.)
Good luck,
ccg
ccg
chad @ glendenin . org
ccg
chad @ glendenin . org
No one seems to have mentioned Adesso yet.
www.adessoinc.com
My roommate has a MS Natural, and I have the Adesso TruForm. Ordered mine from pcconnection.com. It was ~$20 cheaper than roommate's MS; it has full-size movement keys (cursors, PgUp, etc.), full-size Function keys; it allows you to tilt up the front instead of the back (more comfortable for me anyway).
Not so sure yet about the quality. It works okay overall, but my right Ctrl keycap is loose after two months of use.
Oops! I'm late for history...
ccg
Well, okay, maybe this isn't all that common; but at least it could be used for something:
Cheers,
ccg
chad at glendenin dot org
'"OEMs are completely free today to ship any OS they choose. There is no provision in any of our contracts telling OEMs they can't ship something else" or even a so-called "naked" system without any operating system preloaded.'
uh-huh, sure. I called Dell to inquire about the Inspiron 7000 laptop. I told the guy I didn't want Windows, wouldn't use it, and would immediately install Linux or FreeBSD upon receipt of computer. He said that he would be willing to ship me one with a blank hard-drive, i.e. NO Windows, but HE WOULD CHARGE ME THE SAME. So they can ship 'a so-called "naked" system', as long as they still force the hapless consumer, ME, to pay for a copy of frigging Windows that I won't even receive.
Let me write that again: they would charge me for a product that I did not want and that they would not deliver.
I could build my own desktop computer, but I can't build my own laptop, and I can't buy a laptop without paying the MS tax (unless I were rich and could buy a SPARC laptop for 12 grand). The result: I gave up and bought no laptop.
Oh well, I'm sure billionaire Michael Dell won't miss my 2400 bucks, but maybe someday it will matter.
Why can't Microsoft just get out of my way?
cheers,
ccg
www.SolarisCentral.org has a collection of links (under "/sparc") to used/refurbished Sun machine resellers.
good luck,
ccg
Questions for anyone familiar with SGI/Irix:
Realistically, could SGI port Irix to Intel chips?
Could they maybe port 4Dwm, Indigo Magic Desktop (do they still have that?), the GUI sysadmin tools (which I've heard are good), the multimedia stuff, and all the 3D stuff to Linux or a BSD to get an Irix-like Unix environment running on one of those Intel boxes?
--ccg, who is ignorant of all things Irix but will never buy an SGI to run NT.