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No Pre-Installed Windows/Linux Machines on CRN
Rene Pawlitzek writes "
This is great news for all Linux and OS/2 lovers. Finally, after many years of pre-installed (and useless) Windows we will be able to buy laptops without any Microsoft operating system.
Did the Windows refund day pay off?
"
Why hasn't anyone done anything about it then.. surely the ftc can toast them on the subject.
I was holding off too cuz I don't want to pay the Microsoft tax. Now it goes to a Linux distributor! Hoo frigging ray !!!
1&2 follow each other. 3 depends on how much cooperation there is from the laptop vendor.
"1. Some Linux users would like "world domination"
Some forget that the above was said in jest.
"2. Other Linux users don't want to spread Linux
to "newbies"
..or just idiots [there's a difference.]
"3. No one around here can seem to admit that for
new computer users, Mac OS and M$ Windows are easier to learn, easier to set up and have support that is more accessible "
You know full well this is a p.o.v. issue. This also isn't a constant. Don't say the above as though it's a immutable fact.
I never had any problems getting PCMCIA devices working with any laptop I've ever used. Arguably sound's a bit questionable on a few laptops.
That's swell but I'm still keen on a PowerBook, which archetectually is a much nicer platform than Intel. Runs Linux really well, too.
How much work would it be to turn a NetWinder into a laptop? Surely not too much.
I have been getting them for years. Call and ask -- you will get a manager after a transfer or two, then you will get a check. They have always been quite cooperative.
The drivers have been beta for nine months or so (and I have been using them for close to that). IBM has been proofing them internally and will be releasing (at a minimum) the binaries with the next 60 days (unless they do it sooner) as well as code to allow you to use all of the built-in DSP functionality, and for most of that you will get the source code (although the GPL stuff is still the target of more nasty and vicious debate that anything since the Token and ATM guys were going at it hammer and tong. You will at least have very easy-to-decompile binaries.
No wheelie thingie though please.
Well I just wanted to react at the sentence
"woudn't this put - Winblows is now"
çousre not:
1 Linux is not from microflop
2 Linux can be developed by (allmost) every body
3 linux is A LOT better
my old olivetti echos 44 has a logitech chip which just didnt have the ...
third button wired, introducing a switch from a defunct mouse solved the
problem for me. then again of course the sucker is a 8 meg model with no
chance to get a ram upgrade anywhere, so i dont exactly get to use X
much
I have a micron Trek2, and the glidepoint pad does a decent job with the 3 button thing: tapping with one finger is the left button, 2 is middle, 3 is right. not perfect, i know, but it works pretty well, and doesn't need any driver software.
Get a life.
I do.
Rene Pawlitzek
Senior Software Engineer
http://www.pawlitzek.halifax.ns.ca
You mean frisbee, not coaster, right?
Are all of those legal copies of OS/2 :)?
I think Enlightenment (a huge, terribly resource-hungry window manager usually used with slimy dead looking themes) has that windowshade-desktop thing, but not in multiple resolutions. XFree86, however, lets you do C A [+-] to iterate through resolutions.
I just wonder if IBM is going to open up
now the specs for their MWAVE chip, or if they'll
tell customers: Well, you can use Linux, but you
won't be able to access major parts of the
notebook's functionality.
Buy a Thinkpad without an OS or hdd (they will do this with the 770s right now -- I am told by friends in IBM that some resellers have been given non-published codes for 570s, 600s, and 390s with no OS or hdds as well, but that these are generally for integrators and VARs, but that they can be purchased in lots of 1)(and I will post the model numbers if I can find them -- I have asked a number if little blue birdies to whisper in my ear when they have a moment). This will cost a lot less. Spend the money on RAM, but not from IBM (sadly, still too expensive). Call Merisel, Ingram, Western Micro, or AT&T and buy an IBM hdd (they are very good) in the largest capacity you can get for
.deb stuff out and understand the need for keeping the Debian people happy). You can spend the ballance on AccelX (which is nice) and a copy of Mathematica (or something -- beer, beer for Linus, a small desktop with a CD burner and an ADSL link to spread the faith with Debian CDs, ...)
...
Anyway, let me use this as an example:
Thinkpad 770X model# 954973U(300MHz -- the 366 is only $100 more if you need the power for on-the-fly use of an encrypted filesystem and really large data sets)(no OS, no hdd) $3100.00
charger $150.00
CD(IBM) $250.00
battery (second) $250.00
256MB RAM (2 DIMMs) $600 -- IBM would want $1200
14GB IBM hdd $750 -- IBM would want $1400
So, you get for $5100 what IBM would charge $6500 for and you get a cool machine. As in "I can run three hspice sessions with this 320MB RAM while playing Quake on the LAN -- cool!" And it is a Thinkpad (and IBM stands behind their products a damned sight better than Compaq and Dell)(especially Compaq). And it runs Linux quite well, and the DSP stuff is about to be released (a couple of scruffy blue birdies in Austin are quite pleased) and will easy to decompile on purpose if the source is not released (there are lots of Debian users at IBM and they would like
If you want, you can start with a machine closer to $1000 (the 390 line).
Yes, I like IBM. They have been remarkably less brain-dead than usual and they still make very nice stuff.
Now if they will just release the port of Linux that was done last summer to an S/390, all of the Token code (including the 155Mb Token Ring, which runs on Cat5 and screams), enough of the SSA code to allow working Linux drivers for the SSA RAID, ditto with the older 25Mb ATM code
Not-Quite-As-Bitter-As-Usual-IBM-Fan
Companies like ARM Computer, Chembook, KeyData, and Ergo Computing are already willing to sell you a laptop computer with linux-compatible hardware, without any Microsoft software, and without charging you the Microsoft tax. Generally, ditching Windows will save $50-$100.
Of course, you're on your own to make sure that the hardware they sell is actually compatible with linux, but on the other hand, I get the impression this is easier from these companies anyway because they are more forthcoming with technical specs and because they are too small to push any proprietary crap on their customers (MWave....).
chad at glendenin dot org
That can be said for any operationg system. I always wipe the drive and reinstall Windoze when I'm working with a new computer. Easiest way of getting rid of all the trash software that comes pre-installed. I also repartition the drive, as they usually ship with the whole damn drive as C:.
The problem with the ARM platform is software. Most people use their laptops for word processing and spreadsheets while "on the road". WP is available for the StrongArm (if you buy a Netwinder), but no professional-quality spreadsheets are available yet.
On the other hand, I do agree that the Intel chips burn too much juice. I have been looking at a thin client that uses the IDT Winchip C2 processor (instruction-set-compatible with the Pentium) and it's not all that speedy, but it does work well with Linux, burns less than 1/3rd the power of a Mobile Pentium II (but still twice as much as a StrongArm), and has a floating point processor (a slow one, but still faster than emulating FP in software). This would be an excellent chip for a Linux laptop. It puzzles me that no laptop vendors seem interested in using it, instead going to bigger, more power guzzling technologies that require batteries so heavy that you need a card to carry some of the latest "laptops" (or else you have a bettery life of five minutes). Maybe they figure they need those huge batteries anyhow to power 15.1" LCD displays... or maybe tech geeks just aren't interested in a low-power laptop?
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Posted by Akira410:
....
I think this is a great step in the right direction. I was getting rather tired of having an OS shoved at me. If I wanted it I would go out and purchase it myself. I dont want to be FORCED to use anything
Just my 0.02 worth =)
Posted by Akira410:
... :o)
.. Need a few 95 drivers and suddenly you lose your car, house and first born son!
Ahh, World Domination.
How I long for the salty sweet taste of victory in my mouth.
I see what you're saying about the licensing agreements. Its like receiving a contract with the Signature line on the front "Sign this before reading before the rest of it.."
type deal
You buy a laptop and turn it on
Posted by DonR:
Think of all the money you'll save not having to buy 3d hardware.
---
Donald Roeber
With linux who needs x86? Unless you plan on using Wine (which is nice, but not useful for more people) x86 with all the power comsumption doesn't make sense. Lets see a laptop with an ARM (strong Arm?) processor.
Oh, how much you want to bet that someone will release a no-OS system with hardware that linux does not support? (Either a winmodem or a display without xfree86 suppot)
technically, it does not need three mouse buttons, buts its a pain to use X11 (the GUI) with only
two mouse buttons. the only notebooks ive ever
seen with three mouse buttons are sparc based.
you can you both buttons to emulate the third,
but that does work with all applications (blender
is a good example)
Microsoft has signed a consent decree prohibitting these contracts. It's not that I trust microsoft to obey this, but that IBM is big enough to force the issue. I'd be stunned if IBM pays MS on these.
:)
Hmm, how to justify a new laptop, when my thinkpad 755 does everything I need . . . hmm, why bother . . .
hawk, who will probably use that 486 with Linux for another couple of years, or at least until he has time to connect it to a network to switch to FreeBSD
I still use it as the main desktop OS on my primary box at home, for example. I have Linux on the firewall box and on my secondary desktop, but it's not where I live most of the time...
:-)
I also know a couple of others locally who still use it at home.
This OS-less machine trend is a good thing for the more technical user anyway, I think, regardless of the OS they use. I'd rather get the OS in a separate box and install it myself anyway, since that lets me organize the disk the way *I* want to organize it.
--
-Rich (OS/2, Linux, Mac, NT, Solaris, FreeBSD, BeOS, and OS2200 user in Bloomington MN)
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Given that Microsoft and some of the press were trying to pull that kind of spin on things, I'm VERY impressed that things seem to be going in the other direction, now.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Easy, give it to her for Mother's Day, or anniversary, or birthday, or just general principles.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Any statistics available as to the % of hits on slashdot which come from an OS/2 agent?
/.)
(but that still wouldn't tell much because there are also many linux users who use windows at work to read
Besides, most enterprise financial institutions prefer OS/2 over Linux.
--
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
That's right, Linux is so cool that it actually acts as as second heatsink, reducing the temperature of your CPU. (Why do you think our mascot is a penguin?)
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
The OS/2 user comunity is pretty large actually. My main reason for staying with OS/2 is that it's a working system. That, and the object oriented WPS desktop that is both powerful, flexible and easy to use. No other OS has got a feature that's even close to WPS.
War is one of the most horrible things a human can be exposed to. And one of the worlds largest industries.
That's easy. just give it to somebody who can't.
In fact I volunteer.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
This is still very good news, but the vendor is probably still paying Microsoft for an OEM copy of windows, which in turn is paid by the consumer. This is a good step in the battle, but the real win comes when Microsoft doesn't earn money from every computer sold, regardless of the operating system installed.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
My God... I'm gonna have to get a laptop now, and there's no way I can afford one... maybe I should just sell my car and get it over with.
I've been using OS/2 since the release of Warp 3.0 in '94. My sister and her husband use it, my brother and his family use it, as well as my parents and grandparents. They are all non-tech so I set them up with OS/2 because I knew I couldn't cope with supporting Windows related problems cross-country.
After owning an Amiga 2000HD for many years, I refused downgrade my computer expectations and use Windows 3.1 on my first PC(a Pentium 60). One of my friends in college showed me OS/2 and I was quite impressed with what I saw. Win95 was still vapourware at the time, with an ever expanding list of what it would be capable of(of which only half saw the light of day).
I played with Linux a few of years back, but between a hectic work and school schedule I didn't have the time to devote to an OS that didn't meet my current needs.
I'm working at a startup company(about a year old), and we're now experimenting with Linux to replace some NT servers. We've recently started to regularly reboot the servers in an effort to head off problems we've been experiencing in NT due to a growing user-base.
Linux is a great OS for server use, but not yet to par for the end-user with what I've been using since '94, the OOUI (object oriented user interface) WorkPlace Shell being the major factor. Linux is also definitely not to the level that I would be able to support my non-tech family members on.
That being said, I'm impressed enough with what's been happening with Linux that I plan to have a Linux box or two in my new home(finished June/July). At least one to serve as a firewall[hopefully GTE will have ADSL support in place in my new neighborhood by then :-)]
I also plan to experiment more with BeOS. I have it installed on a partition of my current system, but the current release doesn't care for my Kensington Turbo Mouse(trackball) so I've not used it much. However, what I have seen in BeOS is quite impressive. The multiple desktops, each with their own resolution/color depth, takes me back to the days of my Amiga with it's concept of Screens. All that's missing is the Amiga's ability to pull a screen down like a window shade, and see both it and the screen behind it :-)
They are all legal copies. It would be pathetic to claim I support OS/2 and then give away illegal copies. That would be detrimental to the cause.
We're about to add one more - my brother's inlaws will soon be running OS/2 as well. They got tired of having '95 crash on them all the time. After seeing the reliability of OS/2 at my brother's, they decided to run it. For them I'm installing a copy of OS/2 3.0 that I won as a door-prize at last years Warpstock which was held near where my brother lives in Chicago. This year's will be held in Atlanta. Sadly, having purchased a system with Windows pre-installed, my brother's inlaws will still be counted by Microsoft as "yet another happy windows user" :-(
I'll have to give the C A [+-] trick a try. Do I need to configure anything first to tell Linux what resolutions/color depths I wish, or does it just step thru what the card is capable of? We're using an old monitor that might not support all the resolutions and frequencies the card can produce.
that have full driver support!! The 770 was very close with Redhat 5.2, but the sound stuff IBM packs in aren't supported by anything. Maybe they'll be able to support it and everything will be cool...I don't even care if the docking port or the ultrabay or the freakin thousand other features aren't supported...just gimme some of the basics man! Linux laptops rock!! :)
Oh yeah, with linux it ran well over twice as long on a battery as Windows9X
The library I work for still has a single CD-ROM server that runs Warp 4. Up until the beginning of last semester, we had 10 other boxes with Warp 4 and a single 386 running Warp 3 (!). Unfortunately, most have been migrated to 9x/NT (My supervisor is a Microsoft bigot . . .)
The CD-ROM server is incredibly stable. It hasn't been rebooted in months . . . the last time we powered it down, it was just to move it to a new location. Plus, it runs more effeciently than NT does on comparable hardware.
Don't get me wrong -- I'd rather use Linux in most cases. But, it's a darn sight better than NT. I'm sick and tired of rebooting our NT boxes when all 128 megs of RAM are used up with nothing to speak of going on. At least I've managed to bring in a single Linux box . . .
I was rather curious as to how they would skirt the issue of how you can have someone agree to a license without reading it at purchase time. Think about it. "By opening this package, you agree to the license terms /inside/ this package". That's essentially what some stickers said! What if it said "I agree to transfer all my worldly posessions to microsoft"?
;)
I think they just gave in because it's a) difficult to obtain compliance b) legal semantics, and c) let's not forget we had people "rioting" in the street over this issue around the world.
The people who turned out for refund day deserve a pat on the back. Congratulations people, it's one more step to world domination.
--
That way, those of us who wish to do the installation ourselves are free to do so, and those who wish to try something else, but are a little too timid to do the installation can purchase a pre-loaded system.
--
Richard R. Klemmer
WebTrek L.L.C.
Richard R. Klemmer
WebTrek L.L.C.
http:/www.webtrek.com
I actually find this an odd question for someone to ask. People ask this question all the time, even here on Slashdot, but few seem to listen to the answers. Oh well.
--
Richard R. Klemmer
WebTrek L.L.C.
Richard R. Klemmer
WebTrek L.L.C.
http:/www.webtrek.com
similar reports have been filtering through to us about MIS depts banning Macs for homeworkers. i used to work in a web dev house where only two people out of 100 were permitted to use Linux on a workstation, on the grounds that the tech support department (who all were competent with Linux, as many internal dev servers were linux) wanted to limit their workload to Mac OS and Win9x/NT. it takes a long time to get Microsoft certified...
-- need more time?
What are the coresponding figures if you put the newbies in front of computers with the OS and applications already installed?
Do they find Windows any easier than *nix in these circumstances?
Traditionaly, it is the hardware manufacturer who supports the OS ( NOT MS, Redhat, or whoever ) because the hardware manufacturer has a larger revenue base ( think about it: how much did you pay Redhat and how much did you pay the guy who you got your PC from ? which one can give better support based on what you paid ? )
Of course, laptops with linux preloaded have been available for some time, so the guys who are giong "wooohhooooo !!! I'll buy one of these now" are really off base. It's one of many small steps in the right direction for linux ...
Denying use of insecure services to outsiders is a way to keep your box pretty safe ( from the script kiddies anyway ) even if you don't have all of the updates. The script kiddies aren't going to get far with machines that don't run any services ( or worse, machines that are behind a firewall ! )
-- Donovan
Right after I opt for a ThinkPad, IBM says they'll ship laptops sans OS. But seeing as I never so much as saw a Windows startup screen before I wiped/repartitioned/reinstalled my Linux distribution of choice, I s'pose I'm due a refund.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
For Linux on laptops, they're hard to beat, IMHO.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
I didn't see anything in the article saying what kind of price difference there would be between a machine with Windows pre-installed and one with no OS. My guess is that it would be difficult to give too much of a price break considering it would be somewhat of a "specialty item," and we all know that if something is a specialty item it is more expensive than the generic version. Plus you have the cost involved in roducing two versions of a single product rather than just one.
Personally, if it came down to buying a $1800 laptop with no OS or an $1805 laptop with Windows pre-installed, I would by the Windows one. Granted, I would probably wipe the drive and Linux and maybe other OS's, but I would have a Windows CD as well. At the very least, they make good coasters, and at most, the OS does have some advantages (even if they aren't technical advantages)!
Hey, there are /. readers using OS/2 :-)
:-( (I have bash, emacs, pgcc, python, XFree86, tf, and plenty of other "unix" stuff for OS/2, but not XEmacs. Argh!)
;-)
I mostly use Linux now, but I still boot into OS/2 a few times a week. I still like the OS/2 shell (Workplace Shell) much better than GNOME or KDE's desktop. I like OS/2 Communicator better than Linux Communicator or Navigator (especially the "search history" feature, which seems to be completely absent in the Linux version).
The main reason I use Linux is that I like XEmacs much better than normal FSF Emacs, and in OS/2 I only have FSF Emacs.
I guess I can blame Jamie Zawinski for getting me to switch to Linux. I bet he hates that.
- Amit
This is great. Look at all the PCs that got hit with the CIH virus. CIH
Microsoft aggravates my tourettes syndrome.
Wish List:
-No more X86 processors. Perhaps something like Alpha? I hope?
-Linux friendly keyboards. Make them just like the Happy Hacking Keyboard.
-3 button mice
-Graphic Accelerators and displays that conform to open standards
And of course, open source drivers with no restrictive crap in their licenses. All that would be worth gold. Are you listening laptop makers? GOLD!!!
Vidi, Vici, Veni
1. This idea sucks for Liunux newbies as they (the companies) would give no OS support.
What do you mean OS Support?
If I call and ask them "what the start menu does" they'll laugh and hangup.
But if I called and say "my screen is broken" they will try to fix it.
However, you do have a point, since many resellers don't know Linux,
I may call and say "my modem doesn't work" and they would say "prove it!".
(not understanding what i do, claiming i don't know how to use isapnp or something)
2. These companies are simply taking the easy way out
What's the hard way, then?
Our goal was to get a choice and not being forced to windows, we got it.
Do you want something else?
1. Some Linux users would like "world domination".
This is refferd to a joke made by Linus.
I'm sorry to say some mean it seriously, but most dont.
2. Other Linux users don't want to spread Linux to "newbies"
I recommend newbies not use it sometimes.
Some would find it too hard and can damage their existing windows partitions.
Some may find it unusable.
But I don't consider linux users as "elite".
Some of the "comlete idiots" will think they know linux without having any experience.
They won't read any material or seek help, they will try to use it on their own,
because they knew windows was easy to use.
They will be buffled when seeing the "login" prompt and get upset.
They won't know anything to do and think it's because "linux sucks".
I had the "pleasure" of knowing some of these guys, and I woudn't recommend linux to them.
One like this had asked me for linux and I had to refuse, I didnt want him to get a bad experience.
(parading and saying that linux sucks)
---
---
I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
Who still uses OS/2?
"The pen is mighter than the sword... But what if you can't write?"
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
"We've had several large enterprise accounts send directives that under no circumstances is Linux to be loaded on any of their systems," said Mark Romanowski...
Who, and more importantly, why? The who is important if it is, say, Microsoft that requested that. The why is more important. Is it the lack of key application(s)? Is it corporate fear and doubt of anything new? Or is it the Linux-specific fears about suport, device drivers, somebody to sue, etc.?
Without reason or explanation, this quote seems pretty weak.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I can now buy a laptop!
I never bought a laptop before as I didn't want to see Microsoft get hold of any of my money and I didn't have the time and effort to go for a refund. Hopefully this is just one more step towards choice.
Cool Linux PC Badges!
Maybe they'll think about this in the future and go with vendors for whose hardware there is already support or nudge them into creating drivers.
Dreaming of a world where all my hardware works.
Skippy
"False modesty is the refuge of the incompetent." - The Stainless Steel Rat
I don't really need a laptop right now, but I can afford one and I am willing to buy one of these as soon as they are available just to help validate the demand and support IBM for doing the Right Thing. (hmm, now how to explain this to the wife :-)
I would rather install linux myself than pay to have it installed.
Reasons:
1. Choice of distribution.
2. Configuration from scratch how I like it.
Downfall:
Manufacturers may not include linux compliant hardware in this case, though that would be kind of a backwards step anyway.
Anyway, just a thought.
I use all of thos goddamned AOL cd's as Frisbee's, its pretty neat. And i write AOL SUCKS DONKEY C*CK!!! on them with a Sharpie!!! hehe
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
There are several laptops on the market currently which have 3 mouse buttons. Several IBM laptops have them and the new Sony PCG-C1X, which Linus himself booted up for someone in a recent interview.
There is an interesting story on linuxtoday.com about Clive Sinclair working on a dedicated Linux laptop with an alternative CPU to x86. I would think ARM is the logical choice, but he is interested in low costs and perhaps ARM is still too much money.
My perfect Linux portable would be a very power efficient machine along the lines of the PCG-C1X with a 1080x1920 HDTV display, same resolution camera, enough slots for GPS, wireless modem, and flash storage. Linux should be able to run off ROM and a flashcard with no hard disk usage. USB supported peripherals such as DVD's, scanners, printers, etc. should all work without too much trouble.
3. No one around here can seem to admit that for
_ ________
new computer users, Mac OS and M$ Windows are easier to learn, easier to set up and have support that is more accessible "
You know full well this is a p.o.v. issue. This also isn't a constant. Don't say the above as though it's a immutable fact.
Actually it's not a p.o.v. issue, you take thirty people who have never used a computer b4 and divide them into groups of ten for each OS, sit them in front of ten identical machines and have them install the OS, heres what will happen, the Mac group will be done first and running 90% seemlessly, the Winblows group will done second and 50% will be running properly, and when both the other groups are done, the Linux group will be trying to figure out what a mount point is. I never said Linux wasn't better, but it is not easy for beginners ( and for the sake of this demonstration you give enough instruction to the users to boot insto the installation and thats it)
1&2 Were redundant
3. Come on you can't even get properly working drivers fo M$ OS's how do you expect (espcially someone like Dell who is an assembler not a manufacture) the laptop vendors to get these drivers, write them theirselves, it's not cost effective.
points 1 and 2 on the second list were trolling i love that deabte. But there are those out there who are serious about taking down M$ for no other reason than they dislike Bill Gates or his business practices, this is like trying to take down the Catholic church because you didn't like how the Pope runs it. There are good reasons for not using M$ product, and there are good reasons to use it, but a crusade against the company make the rest of us look like fanatics not informed computer users/geeks who choose another OS because it's better
_______________________________________________
Can We trust the future - Flesh99
I really had never thought it from that viewpoint, but no doubt all three systems(provided *nix had Xwindows installed otherwise the answer is obvious) would be just as easy to use and it would come down to (even I hate to say this) how the person thinks, I know people who know how to use Xwindows but wish it was lik MAC and vice versa etc etc. It all depend on how youthink at that point. But without tech support for the OS (Which Dell is thinking about providing) if the system blows up then the newbie is screwed_ _______________
________________________________________
Can We trust the future - Flesh99
The main question this article does not give a solid answer on is how much are we going to save by purchasing a "blank" laptop. The bigger problems start with:
_ ________
1. This idea sucks for Liunux newbies as they (the companies) would give no OS support.
2. These companies are simply taking the easy way out
3. You can get laptops with Linux installed from small VAR's that offer support
4. With the current level of driver development for Linux newer machines will still be out of reach for Linux users
Some other things I have noticed
1. Some Linux users would like "world domination"
(Wouldn't this put Linux in the same place M$
Windows is now ?)
2. Other Linux users don't want to spread Linux
to "newbies"
(Yes I rant a lot on the divided camps of
Linux)
3. No one around here can seem to admit that for
new computer users, Mac OS and M$ Windows are
easier to learn, easier to set up and have
support that is more accessible
(I use Linux at home and at the office so put
away your tar and feathers, at least I can
admit the truth
_______________________________________________
Can We trust the future - Flesh99
are you on crack? what is it people have with the obsession of using cds as coasters. they're not absorbant and offer no grip either for the table below or the glass/cup above.
$5 for a beer coaster -- you're goddam crazy. spend the $1800 on a the no-bundle and go buy yourself a nice glass of german beer at you're local pub. i'm sure they won't mind you helping yourself to a few 'real' coasters.
--
Rare Window - free your photos
Do you think it would be practicable to receive a computer from , say Compaq , open it up , turn it on , see the license agreement that I have agreed to refuse the license passed on to me ( the user )for use of the software and DEMAND a refund when I ship the computer back to them ?
Do I dare try ? : )
With the release of W2K... As I understand it, the consent decree exempts descendants of NT (on the basis that it had not yet garnered a monopolistic control over the industry at large).
The consent decree was (and remains) a joke... It puts no practical limits or restraints on Microsoft's licensing that they can't step around or find a loophole.
"If you install RedHat (or any other distribution) without paying attention to the security updates/alerts, you are basically asking crackers and script kiddies to invade your network."
As opposed to an NT installation, where the security updates/alerts are not quickly and obviously brought to your attention? The only reason that people see NT as more secure is that M$ doesn't publish security hole info so you can plug the hole.
Here's a clue: If you install any OS on a networked system without paying attention to the security updates/alerts, you are basically asking crackers and script kiddies to invade your network.
If you're clueless, you're gonna get screwed regardless of which OS you pick. If you're smart, you'll pick the OS that reduces your chances of getting screwed, by providing you with the information you need.
Incidentally, as for someone to sue...
from the M$ EULA:
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT OR THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES, EVEN IF MICROSOFT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. IN ANY CASE, MICROSOFT'S ENTIRE LIABILITY UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS EULA SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT OR U.S.$5.00