"If you're ever in Houston,
Oh you'd better do right
You'd better not gamble
And you better not fight, lord
Or the sheriff will grab you
And the boys will bring you down
The next thing you know boy,
Oh you're prison bound"
-- as interpreted by me
Seems ol' Leadbelly had it down some 40+ years ago. I wonder if everything that the old blues players sang about will just come true again only in a digital world.
One very good option is Breadbox Ensemble. If you remember the old GeoWorks this is where it now lives. I have a very old 486 laptop that couldn't even run Win95 on it. I got Breadbox Ensemble running ontop of DOS 7.{whatever} and it's really nice.
I got HeroScape (http://www.hasbro.com/heroscape/) for my son (who is 8) for Christmas. We've played a couple of games and it's really very fun. So far he's been kicking my @$$ but it's great to have a game that nearly anyone can play. The fact that you can build your own battle grounds makes the game scenarios limited only by your imagination.
The fact of the matter is that all of the "big name" distros would be just fine but if you are talking about an enterprise (or even a SOHO) environment then go with the ones that will be technically solid and also have the $$$$ support to keep management happy.
For something that might be more along the lines of semi-professional or personal work, I would say that any of the main stream distros would be a good choice. You might look at the RHEL clones as well (like CentOS-3 or White Box) to work on getting your chops up to speed.
I kinda cruised through the suggestions already posted and really, if you put the time into it, they are all fine options. Ones like Gentoo or Free/NetBSD will requite a lot more time and don't have the warm and fuzzy $$$$ support that businesses/management want.
<RANT>
For the distro bashers out there, Do you realize how much you are impeding and hurting then Open Source/Linux cause? If you don't like Red Hat or SUSE or whatever that's just fine. You are free to like and dislike whatever you want. But to publicly go around and bad-mouth this or that distro, to rand about how stupid and idiotic someone might be for choosing XYZ distro just helps the closed, proprietary (re: Microsoft) world. I repeat; to bash any particular distro is to help Microsoft. If you feel your distro is better, for whatever reason, just point out it's strengths (and weaknesses as well; you'll really gain much more credibility if you do) and let the user decide.
</RANT>
My personal recommendations to clients is as such -
For general use distros (i.e. one distro for servers, desktops and workstations) RHEL or SUSE
For desktop WinXX replacements
Xandros or Lycoris
For strictly servers
RHEL, SUSE(and in the right situations)Debian
For home users
Xandros, Lycoris or Linspire
For enterprise level use in situations where cost is critical and the lack of the $$$$ warm and fuzzy isn't necessary
CentOS-3(soon to be -4), Tao Linux or White Box Linux
This is a rule-of-thumb that I have had some success with. But there are as many combinations of distro usage as there are distros. The key is to know what the requirements are and then make the decisions based on the proper tool for the job as opposed to trying to cram your personal favorite distro into every situation you might encounter.
$DEITY what have you been smoking?!? It takes a really, and I do mean REALLY, warped mind to make a connection like that. You must travel the road of Jim Jones and David Koresh. Not liking ST:E because it sucks is one thing but to try and make a completely insane connection with some idiotic political stance is just stupid. I mean the "you are an idiot with the brain capacity of a gnat" kind of stupid. You probably thought that Fahrenheit 911 was a non-fiction documentary, too.
ST:E has some serious suckage problems, no doubt. But try and keep to some vague form of reality when you are commenting on it. Please.
Oh, and for the record; I voted for Kerry, I want our troops out of Iraq, I think that the current administration is doing more harm than good and that you are almost laughable in your stupidity.
> What was it that drew you to a life of programming?
Pure luck. The first job I got when I dropped out^W^W left collage was as a computer operator feeding punch cards into some "Big Iron" that was about as powerful as a Game Boy Advanced. I got this job because it was the first place that hired me. From there it was just a matter of tripping over events which let me down the path to PC Support then Programming (COBOL under MVS) then Web things (under Linux) to UNIX Sysadmin (Linux and Solaris) to Network Admin to Teacher/Consultent.
> How old were you when you first used a computer?
I was 17 and a senior in high school. It was a BASIC programming class where we used TTY's.
> What pieces of modern software do you think would be a good way to
> introduce today's kids to the world of computing?
A Mac. When my son was 4 I game him an old iMac and put OS X on it. It took about three weeks before he was training me in the use of the frelling system. I'm 100% serious.
> I'd like to ask my fellow Slashdot dwellers what tools,
> languages and approaches they have used to help
> introduce new people to programming?
FWLIW here's an idea -
Start with "Programming From the Ground Up" by Jonathan Bartlett. This would give a good, solid foundation in programming fundimentals
Next scripting with Bourne shell.
From there maybe Python or Ruby, if you want to jump into OOP. Stay away from perl!
For compiled languages I'd recomend SmallTalk or Eiffel.
Once a good and proper foundation is set then let them into C and/or C++ (but not before!)
Once good, solid programming basics are learned then the language used tends to be less of a bottle neck.
But this is just my opinion. What the hell do I know...
That still sucks. "Somewhere" could potentially be a crater. I can't think of a place where it could hit that wouldn't cause global devistation. Even if the asteroid itself only took out, for example, the middle of South America or hit the deserts of Africa there would be a major disruption of weather and there could possibly be damage to global ecnomic systems.
> Besides, given that it's in 2029, one woul hope that with a concerted effort,
> this disaster could be avoided.
1 in 43, huh? Well, if the damned thing is going to hit I hope it lands in some unopulated part of the planet. Yes, I know that all the effects of it will be enough to kill off the human race. But I still hope it doesn't land on anyone. Especially me.
On a serious note, I have a young son who I would rather see grow up in a world that wasn't totally trashed.
Yeah, it's really as likely to hit as I am to becoming a millionare, but still, published odds like 62 to 1 aren't going to make people feel good. That's about mid-odds for a nag running in the Belmont. I liked 233 to 1 much better.
There's lots of posts in this thread that explain why what you did was not wrong. No need to repete that. My opinion (and it's worth very penny) is that what you are doing is without question exactly what you should be doing. It's called open source for a reason.
Now, would it have been a bad thing to let the other group/person know that you were doing this? Sure. But even if (s)he screams to high heaven about it, you are in the right and what you did is the very stuff that makes open source so strong.
> (X-code (formerly Project builder which came from OpenStep/NextStep) and Interface builder
> (which started out on NeXTStep).
You're missing a closing ) there. Why do I know this? Because I am just this side north of complete and total OCD with a strong helping of anal retentiveness. Just ask the LWN editors. I submit more "you missed a period" emails than I do articles.
Damn! That reminds me, I am about three months overdue for one. Maybe I can get it done this weekend. Or maybe I'll go to the Computer Show.:-)
Oh, and before I forget... Are there any books or resources on using Xcode? I got it but can't figure out how to use the damned thing. It would be so much easier if I could just use vim and a compiler like I do on any *NIX.
I think that Law and Order does a good job of psudo-legal TV. I've been a fan of the original show for years. It's only within the last few months that I've gotten into CSI. I remember the premier episode and, for some reason, didn't like it. But with the back-to-back reruns on Spike TV I'm getting into it quite a bit. It still wouldn't replace L&O for me. I do miss Lenny, though he's supposed to be a regular (though not regular) member of some new L&O show coming out soon.
Re:Thinking outside of the KDE/GNOME box
on
NeXTSTEP To Mac OS X
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I'd love to email you but I can't find an email address for you.
FWIW, I like the NeXT UI but I'd have to say that it's still not as good as the CDE. The implimentation that Xfce has made is increadably good.
> This is the reason why when picking a development environment for a project it is
> important to consider things like portability, maintainability, and suitability for the purpose.
Oh. So that would mean COBOL would be your first choice for languages.
Seriouslly, that wouldn't be as far fetched as you might think. COBOL is on every platform you'd probably ever need to run on and now has OO capabilities that are better than C++. No, I wouldn't use it for the Next Great OS®, but if you're pushing data around you'd be a fool not to concider it as an option.
> Many have tried, all shrinkwrap OSes have failed:
Then later...
> Microsoft makes money from deals with the hardware manufacturers.
You listed OS's that were superior technicaly to MS Windows but were all killed by, as you then mentioned, MS cuttinig off their only hope of exposure. Shrinkwrap OS's would have a lot better life if they were also available preinstalled. Just like the shrinkwrapped OS called MS Windows.
This article has already been beaten to death but I wanted to add my useless opinion anyway.
COBOL isn't dead. It isn't just for mainframes either. COBOL is quite alive and kicking. The latest ISO standard for it was just released in 2002. It's got functions, can do OOP (better than C++, BTW) and still can crunch data batter than any other language out there. It's a shame that the preconceptions and stigma perpetuated by people who haven't seen COBOL since 1968 are really hampering the usefulness of this really good langauge to the detriment of every developer in the world.
Disclaimer: The programming I do is 75% php, 10% perl and 15% in shell/awk/grep/whatever. It's just that I have a liking for programming languages in general and like to keep an eye on them. There's a lot of very good ones out there that most everybody misses; icon, Eiffel, Smalltalk, Ada, REBOL, Lua, Dylan...
This was all gone over, like, a month ago. There were two or three FUD rants, uh, I mean "articles" written by this guy. It's all kinda blown over now, hasn't it? I mean, no one believed him the first time. Why give him a voice again?
When the company added lasik to the list of covered medical procedures a bunch of co-workers went and got it. They all now have 20/20 or better eyesight and all said that the operation was non-eventful. The only thing ever mentioned was a little burning feeling when the local wore off. Described as mildly annoying.
I won't be having it done, despite 20/200 vision with corrective lenses, because I can't get past the whole "cut your eye and flip it over" thing.
Slashdot Mirror
"If you're ever in Houston,
Oh you'd better do right
You'd better not gamble
And you better not fight, lord
Or the sheriff will grab you
And the boys will bring you down
The next thing you know boy,
Oh you're prison bound"
-- as interpreted by me
Seems ol' Leadbelly had it down some 40+ years ago. I wonder if everything that the old blues players sang about will just come true again only in a digital world.
One very good option is Breadbox Ensemble. If you remember the old GeoWorks this is where it now lives. I have a very old 486 laptop that couldn't even run Win95 on it. I got Breadbox Ensemble running ontop of DOS 7.{whatever} and it's really nice.
I got HeroScape (http://www.hasbro.com/heroscape/) for my son (who is 8) for Christmas. We've played a couple of games and it's really very fun. So far he's been kicking my @$$ but it's great to have a game that nearly anyone can play. The fact that you can build your own battle grounds makes the game scenarios limited only by your imagination.
No, that would be forth. Makes perl look like "See Spot Run."
For something that might be more along the lines of semi-professional or personal work, I would say that any of the main stream distros would be a good choice. You might look at the RHEL clones as well (like CentOS-3 or White Box) to work on getting your chops up to speed.
I kinda cruised through the suggestions already posted and really, if you put the time into it, they are all fine options. Ones like Gentoo or Free/NetBSD will requite a lot more time and don't have the warm and fuzzy $$$$ support that businesses/management want.
<RANT>
For the distro bashers out there, Do you realize how much you are impeding and hurting then Open Source/Linux cause? If you don't like Red Hat or SUSE or whatever that's just fine. You are free to like and dislike whatever you want. But to publicly go around and bad-mouth this or that distro, to rand about how stupid and idiotic someone might be for choosing XYZ distro just helps the closed, proprietary (re: Microsoft) world. I repeat; to bash any particular distro is to help Microsoft. If you feel your distro is better, for whatever reason, just point out it's strengths (and weaknesses as well; you'll really gain much more credibility if you do) and let the user decide.
</RANT>
My personal recommendations to clients is as such -
For general use distros (i.e. one distro for servers, desktops and workstations)
RHEL or SUSE
For desktop WinXX replacements
Xandros or Lycoris
For strictly servers
RHEL, SUSE (and in the right situations) Debian
For home users
Xandros, Lycoris or Linspire
For enterprise level use in situations where cost is critical and the lack of the $$$$ warm and fuzzy isn't necessary
CentOS-3 (soon to be -4) , Tao Linux or White Box Linux
This is a rule-of-thumb that I have had some success with. But there are as many combinations of distro usage as there are distros. The key is to know what the requirements are and then make the decisions based on the proper tool for the job as opposed to trying to cram your personal favorite distro into every situation you might encounter.
But that's just my opinion.
ST:E has some serious suckage problems, no doubt. But try and keep to some vague form of reality when you are commenting on it. Please.
Oh, and for the record; I voted for Kerry, I want our troops out of Iraq, I think that the current administration is doing more harm than good and that you are almost laughable in your stupidity.
Pure luck. The first job I got when I dropped out^W^W left collage was as a computer operator feeding punch cards into some "Big Iron" that was about as powerful as a Game Boy Advanced. I got this job because it was the first place that hired me. From there it was just a matter of tripping over events which let me down the path to PC Support then Programming (COBOL under MVS) then Web things (under Linux) to UNIX Sysadmin (Linux and Solaris) to Network Admin to Teacher/Consultent.
> How old were you when you first used a computer?
I was 17 and a senior in high school. It was a BASIC programming class where we used TTY's.
> What pieces of modern software do you think would be a good way to
> introduce today's kids to the world of computing?
A Mac. When my son was 4 I game him an old iMac and put OS X on it. It took about three weeks before he was training me in the use of the frelling system. I'm 100% serious.
> I'd like to ask my fellow Slashdot dwellers what tools,
> languages and approaches they have used to help
> introduce new people to programming?
FWLIW here's an idea -
- Start with "Programming From the Ground Up" by Jonathan Bartlett. This would give a good, solid foundation in programming fundimentals
- Next scripting with Bourne shell.
- From there maybe Python or Ruby, if you want to jump into OOP. Stay away from perl!
- For compiled languages I'd recomend SmallTalk or Eiffel.
- Once a good and proper foundation is set then let them into C and/or C++ (but not before!)
Once good, solid programming basics are learned then the language used tends to be less of a bottle neck.But this is just my opinion. What the hell do I know...
That still sucks. "Somewhere" could potentially be a crater. I can't think of a place where it could hit that wouldn't cause global devistation. Even if the asteroid itself only took out, for example, the middle of South America or hit the deserts of Africa there would be a major disruption of weather and there could possibly be damage to global ecnomic systems.
> Besides, given that it's in 2029, one woul hope that with a concerted effort,
> this disaster could be avoided.
One would hope...
On a serious note, I have a young son who I would rather see grow up in a world that wasn't totally trashed.
Yeah, it's really as likely to hit as I am to becoming a millionare, but still, published odds like 62 to 1 aren't going to make people feel good. That's about mid-odds for a nag running in the Belmont. I liked 233 to 1 much better.
Now, would it have been a bad thing to let the other group/person know that you were doing this? Sure. But even if (s)he screams to high heaven about it, you are in the right and what you did is the very stuff that makes open source so strong.
> (which started out on NeXTStep).
You're missing a closing ) there. Why do I know this? Because I am just this side north of complete and total OCD with a strong helping of anal retentiveness. Just ask the LWN editors. I submit more "you missed a period" emails than I do articles.
Damn! That reminds me, I am about three months overdue for one. Maybe I can get it done this weekend. Or maybe I'll go to the Computer Show. :-)
Oh, and before I forget... Are there any books or resources on using Xcode? I got it but can't figure out how to use the damned thing. It would be so much easier if I could just use vim and a compiler like I do on any *NIX.
Anyway, the resounding answer to this is an emphatic YES !!!
I think that Law and Order does a good job of psudo-legal TV. I've been a fan of the original show for years. It's only within the last few months that I've gotten into CSI. I remember the premier episode and, for some reason, didn't like it. But with the back-to-back reruns on Spike TV I'm getting into it quite a bit. It still wouldn't replace L&O for me. I do miss Lenny, though he's supposed to be a regular (though not regular) member of some new L&O show coming out soon.
FWIW, I like the NeXT UI but I'd have to say that it's still not as good as the CDE. The implimentation that Xfce has made is increadably good.
Doubleplusgood.
Like the system K5 has? Yes, it would be much better to have that but I don't see it coming.
> important to consider things like portability, maintainability, and suitability for the purpose.
Oh. So that would mean COBOL would be your first choice for languages.
Seriouslly, that wouldn't be as far fetched as you might think. COBOL is on every platform you'd probably ever need to run on and now has OO capabilities that are better than C++. No, I wouldn't use it for the Next Great OS®, but if you're pushing data around you'd be a fool not to concider it as an option.
Then later...
> Microsoft makes money from deals with the hardware manufacturers.
You listed OS's that were superior technicaly to MS Windows but were all killed by, as you then mentioned, MS cuttinig off their only hope of exposure. Shrinkwrap OS's would have a lot better life if they were also available preinstalled. Just like the shrinkwrapped OS called MS Windows.
In a heartbeat. I'm just biding my time.
COBOL isn't dead. It isn't just for mainframes either. COBOL is quite alive and kicking. The latest ISO standard for it was just released in 2002. It's got functions, can do OOP (better than C++, BTW) and still can crunch data batter than any other language out there. It's a shame that the preconceptions and stigma perpetuated by people who haven't seen COBOL since 1968 are really hampering the usefulness of this really good langauge to the detriment of every developer in the world.
Disclaimer: The programming I do is 75% php, 10% perl and 15% in shell/awk/grep/whatever. It's just that I have a liking for programming languages in general and like to keep an eye on them. There's a lot of very good ones out there that most everybody misses; icon, Eiffel, Smalltalk, Ada, REBOL, Lua, Dylan...
This was all gone over, like, a month ago. There were two or three FUD rants, uh, I mean "articles" written by this guy. It's all kinda blown over now, hasn't it? I mean, no one believed him the first time. Why give him a voice again?
I won't be having it done, despite 20/200 vision with corrective lenses, because I can't get past the whole "cut your eye and flip it over" thing.
You'd think that in these days the Ministry of Home Defense (zieg heil!) this kind of thing wouldn't come to pass.
It would be nice to see some common sense invade the mindshare of Big Business. But I doubt it will happen. Greed will out.