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Experiences with Laser Eye Surgery?
GodLessOne asks: "I am about to get my hands on a reasonable lump of cash and I am working on my list of ways to make it an ex-lump of cash. All of the normal geek things appear on the list, but one item that I keep considering is corrective laser eye surgery. Would anyone care to share their real world experiences? I worry that the people selling it are the only ones saying how wonderful it is, and what percentage of people show a marked improvement afterward. Are there any stories out there relating how bad it can be if it goes wrong?"
I would, but I'm a hunt-and-peck typist, and my keyboard is pretty much just a blur.
</squint>
Sigs cause cancer.
First, how bad can it be? Well, potentially, you could go blind.
Second, do you really need it? If you don't really need it, then waiting may be your best option. Medical technology changes so fast that a new, better procedure could be out within a few years. Sometimes, having one of these surgeries disqualifies you from a future surgery.
It basically comes down to how much you're risking. If I had only minor vision problems, I wouldn't have it done. If my vision is already pretty bad, I might be willing to risk more for an improvement.
BTW, you can always invest money rather than spending it. It's a wacky idea, but might be worth your consideration.
I'd say go for after looking into the long term side effects
I found a ton of info on Google...first hand encounters. Lasik experiences.
... personally I'd just wear glasses, and spend the money on a new computer. For me, glasses help boost your intellectual look (Don't something like 70% of engineers wear glasses?).
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
If the fucking computer BSODS on you or some spyware makes the laser burn a permanent imprint of a porno website on your eye otherwise its a realitivly safe technology, imho.
Yes. Do a google search on "lasik dangers" and you'll find that when it goes wrong, it can go horribly wrong, up to and including blindness.
I, personally, wouldn't do it unless my vision was so bad I needed coke-bottle bottoms to see.
I had intacts (eye implants) put in and taken out. They created halos at nights which were bugging me just too much. A laser will not be reversible.
-I am an elective eunuch.
how about a beowulf cluster of eyesight-correcting lasers? then we could fix everyone's eysight- maybe even improve it!!!
Get laser ear surgery, then you can echolocate your way around even in the dark.
seriously if you have a wad of cash you don't need, the best thing is to invest it.
you don't get any ROI from a guy slicing your eyeball with an overpriced, patent-encumbered gadget.
And invest your money in a small business, real estate or if you are a gambling man buy some stock.
She's pretty smart. I'd follow her lead.
Give me a call when they blow the moon up with a laser, that one might work for me.
- Seth
I hate to break it to ya buddy, but I was crushed when I found out, and I think you should know too. They use a laser ON your eye, to fix problems. They DON'T give you a laser eyeball to replace your puny and misshapen one. I know, I couldn't believe it either, but it's true. Shoulda taken that guy to court for false advertising.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
Unless I was seriously blind. I wear glasses, sometimes it sucks, but I just couldn't bear even a 0.5% chance of something going wrong or any chance of blindness.
I've got a friend who had it done and I watched the tape of the surgery and it looked sketchy. She says that she is stoked she got it, but she has some night blindness from it. I've also talked to a few other people that have had it and they are all happy. I'd say just do research into the doctor you go to first. That's probably the most important thing.
well i live in dallas texas, where dr. boothe practices, and accroding to the radio he's done more lasik proceedures than anyone in the world, 50,000+ so far.. so i guess its good, its gotta mean something if that many people would say yes.
Friend of mine once remarked after thinking about it.
"I wasn't sure, every surgeon I met who would perform it was wearing glasses..."
My father had it done and can't believe how well he can see again. Seems like the advanced wavefront stuff really does a good job.
I had LASIK done a couple of months ago as have my Mother and Father years ago with generation 1 lasers.
They were very pleased, but I was never able to get it because my astigmatism was too bad to be corrected. Recent laser improvements have greatly increased the correction ranges and I could not be happier.
I have never met someone who would not do it all over again if they had to. And as for myself, I would do it again in a hearbeat and am pushing for others to get it done that are afraid.
The only thing I stress is to NOT go to one of those cheap bargin places where docs come out of med school to practice and use old lasers. The new ones are 5th generation and have "WaveFront Technology" which improve laser accuacy.
So, if you have the funds, FREE YOURSELF!!! You will not miss your glasses/contacts I promise!
See Surgical Eyes for some possible downsides. It is a site run by the small minority of people who do have complications from LASIK and other eye surgeries, so you have to take their viewpoint with a grain of salt - but nonetheless it's good to know what the worst-case scenario might be.
...plus some astigmatism in both eyes; my results were quite good, if not perfect. I'm at about 24/40 now. Night vision includes some starburst effect, but not bad at all. I still wear glasses occasionally, but with lenses that don't break my nose. I think the most important things are finding a reputable doctor and going to the followup examinations. In my case, the doctor wouldn't do both eyes at once, given the high correction. I certainly have no regrets, and consider it money very well spent.
Another option to consider is Intacts. (Tiny bit of info available at http://www.bellevue-lasik.com/lasik-information/la sik-alternatives.html)
The big advantage of Intacts is that they are removable in case of complications or upgrades.
Avoid frauds and unrealistic expectations.
Understand the risks, ans assume much worse odds than you are told. If you're still up for it, go on. If you aren't sure, wait. It keeps getting better and safer, you know.
Good luck!
everything in moderation
Although I myself haven't had it, several of my friends have. The only real side effects are temporary (blurry vision and double lights while driving at night) so make sure you are prepared for a little recovery time.
The technology and the prices keep getting better as well.
One thing you will need to keep in mind is even though you might be restored to good vision, normal aging will still continue to lessen your vision. However you'll still be better off.
There are a few types of eye problems that are not corrected by the surgery though. So before you get your hopes up first ask if you are a good candidate for the surgery.
Hope that helps.
Timmmmaaay!
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Go to a trendy glasses store and work with someone to find the right frames for you. I found some Kazuo Kawasaki frames a few years ago and it really helped me realize that glasses aren't so bad - speaking as someone who's worn them since first grade and has a ridiculous prescription. Nice light frames that accentuate your face seem way better than expensive surgery that might leave you blind... (or unable to drive at night or whatever)
The FDA offers this article: Laser Eye Surgery: Is It Worth Looking Into?
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it? ~ Albert Einstein
I'm still hiding behind a pair of armor plates suspended ahead of my eyes on metal frames, but when I get to the point of actually doing some vision repair/etc, I'd be leaning towards this type of procedure instead of laser surgery.
-PS
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I'd try to get some linux powered eyeballs instead...
Had both eyes done at once (Lasik) and mine were bad but with minor astigmatism. I thik they were like 20/200+ each before.
After a VERY simple procedure (apart from the razor cutting a flap in your cornea), the recovery process was about 2 days long and now, after 1 year, I have absolutely no ill effects (apart from temp night halos for a bit but they went away after about 6 months).
Vision now 20/20 left eye, 20/15 right eye.
If this really is a decent lump of cash, you'd be much better off investing it in the stock market (after the election, if Bush is still in) or using it to start up your own business. If I had 25 to 50 thousand spare cash, there are a few things I know and ideas I have to start up a nice little business. You aren't going to be ahead at all in three years, when all your electronics gear has depreciated to nothing even if it still works. And in 10-15 years you'll be back in glasses as your eyes naturally tend towards farsightedness.
...are not here to tell their stories.
It's not accidents during surgery that you have to worry about so much as the long-term consequences. They are removeing part of the cornea eye and this weakens the eye structurally. Nobody knows what are the consequences of reduced structural integrity twenty or more years down the road.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
I had it done 1 month ago. I could not get lasic, I had to have PRK performed. The biggest difference I am told is the pain that I went through. So far, so good. This has been the first time without needing glasses in 29 years. I seem to be healing quite well but am a bit far sighted now. Good trade! One of the hobbies that I have is astronomy. So far my night vision is as good or better than it was (corrected). No complaints so far. I have heard the horror stories as well. I researched and made the decision to do it anyway.
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Are you wearing glasses at the moment? Have you tried contact lenses?
Personally, I am wearing glasses and sometimes contact lenses, and i find they're enough to get on with my life, so I never consider laser eye surgeory.
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
Recently my doctor told me about a new therapy as an alternative to lasik. Essentially special lenses reshape your cornea in your sleep. More information.
You don't list if you currently wear contacts or glasses. A word of warning if you wear Hard or Gas Permeable contacts (rigid type). Since they ARE rigid they reshape your eye. After you've used them for a while your eye starts to reshape a bit. Which is great. Right up until you decide it's time to STOP wearing them. It takes a while for your eye to gradually reshape -- up to a year depending on the doctor you talk to (and since it's your eyes I'd assume you'd want to be cautious...). So if you get the surgery done before your eye has totally relaxed the surgery will be a waste.
Another warning -- always get a second opinion (from a competent opthamologist) as to whether the thickness of your cornea is great enough to successfully do the surgery. In a story a while ago (cnn?) one of the major problems was that a doctor would attempt to do the surgery with a cornea that was too thin to work with.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
I had my laser eye surgury in Toronto Canada and it was great. Before with glasses I would see 20/20 and now that I have had it done I see even better 14/20. The process was quick and the next day everything was clear. I did have some night vision halos for a few months but it wasn't anything too bad and did go away. Go in for a consultation and see if you're a able to have it done. If you are I would recommend doing it in Canada since it'll be half the cost and they have newer technology.
Good luck and hope all goes well.
A friend had this done and has had continuing problems because of it. I'm not entirely sure the exact issues but if you send me your email I can put the two of you in touch with each other.
One issue is that she now has serious night vision problems.
My brother had an RK which is an older corrective technique and he felt it was well worth it. However, you may want to read the book "Left for Dead" because it was the eye surgery that left Seaborn Beck Weathers incapacitated and he really was left for dead, twice in fact. So there can be serious consequences.
I where glasses and did consider surgery at one time. The glasses don't really bother me and since I am short sighted I have found that this is actually a blessing in disguise.
The glasses fix the distance vision perfectly and I can see perfectly from about 24" to infinity. Under 18" I take off the glasses and can then focus to the tip of my nose. Thus I can do close up work that others can't.
If you do elect for the surgery, then make sure you get a good doctor... there are some who try to cut a few corners (pardon the pun)
As we say at los alamos
Get breast implants. Then you won't need a girlfriend ;)
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Don't order the do-it-yourself kit.
Have you considered Intacs? They're much cheaper, lower risk and very effective, though they don't correct all types of flawed vision.
I got mine done June 2nd. I love it. I had both eyes done at the same time and now see with 20/15 vision. It really is a noticable different from wearing glasses. The only problem I have had is dryness in my right eye, but that is tolerable and getting better.
Well worth the money - I paid $699/eye in the midwest.
Basically the idea is that the contact reshapes your eye while you sleep. In the morning, you take the contacts out and have near perfect vision for close to 24 hours. That's not the beauty of them though. Apparently, if you use these contacts your eyesight does not worsen.
I wasn't able to afford them when my optometrist told me about them. They were around $700 a pair because they were new and specific to your eyes. I have no clue what they are called but it's worth looking into...no pun intended.
My sister's surgery improved her vision by about 70%, not the 100% improvement that she had hoped. She was still happy with the results, though. I hear of people in the US going to Canada for surgery since it is more cost effective there.
the main thing to remember is that when you are doing laser surgery (instead of the perm. contact solution that is coming) they are reshaping your eye. That is, they are REMOVING part of your Cornea. There is no undo button, if they cut too much you're screwed. Also if you have really bad eyes (sigmatism or what have you) you need to have decently sized corneas for it to be worthwhile. And even after surgery your eyes will still age, so you might need glasses again. I would strongly advise against it unless you're a big x games like person. I considered it as a graduation gift to myself, but my then fiancee an Optomitrist talked me out of it.
On the other hand, my dad did do it about 10 or so years ago, and he was very happy with the results. His retina has since detached, and his eyes have grown progressively worse, but that's not due to the surgery, it's just a matter of getting older.
Good luck if you do decide to give it a try.
I have a friend who did this. She is a prominent laywer in one of the largest law firms in a major east coast city that is one the medical meccas of the world. By which I mean: she could afford the best that money could buy. Nevertheless, she had complications. For months afterwards, her eyes were too dry and she constantly had to put in eye drops to stay comfortable (and by constantly I mean that the dropper was always in her hand and she was applying drops in the midst of conversations and meetings and such). The doctors ended up plugging her eye ducts so the tears would not drain out so quickly, in an attempt to help keep her eyes moist enough. She still feels discomfort. Remember, these are your eyes we are talking about.
As a physicist who works daily with (only moderate power) lasers, i might share our old and well known survival trick:
DON'T LOOK INTO LASER WITH REMAINING EYE!
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
I had Lasik in 1999 and my vision went from 20/400 (can't see the big 'E') to 20/17 (can read a couple of letters on the next to the bottom row)
:-)
The procedure was a bit odd. The most unnerving part was when they cut your eye open. You think you're nearly blind then, but you don't have a clue until you see that. The LED light looked about the size of a dime before it was cut, but while it was open for the surgery, it was the size of a *basketball*. Amazingly, I could see improvement while the laser was burning away at my eye.
Immediately after the surgery I could read without my glasses and there was some haze. Kinda like looking out the window on a foggy morning. There were only 3 consequences $5000 fee for the surgery (it was 1999), slightly reduced night vision, and somewhat dry eyes.
5 days later, the fog disappeared and I couldn't see *with* my glasses
Other than that, I can actually see the distortion of a perfectly clean pane of glass vs a plain view. If the wind would stop blowing for long enough, I might just be able to count the leaves on the trees from a distance.
I had the same trepidations... i did it 5 years ago when i lived in Detroit. A doctor in the USA told me he would not do it because my nearsightedness was not severe enough, but to me, who enjoys reading, hiking, swimming, biking, programming... etc... glasses and contacts just weren't cutting it. So I found a doc across the river in Canada who would do it. He ran his office like a meat packing plant. You go in, you pay your money, you get strapped in, they zap you, and then you leave. There was a constant line outside the door and always a full waiting room.
Result? A few hours of pain (5 years ago was ancient history for Lasik), 1 day of groggy eyes, and then perfect vision for 5 years. I can't tell you anything beyond the 5 years, since we are not there yet. I can't tell you anyone else's bad experiences. I have never met anyone who did it who regretted it. That does not mean people like this do not exist... it just means everyone I know who did it was happy. I don't regret it in the slightest and really appreciate the vision I have now.
If your myopia is less than (-)5 diopters, consider eyetacs/intracorneal rings instead. If it's worse, don't bother with laser eye surgery, because aside from all of the risks, at higher levels of myopia (and heavily in any hyperopia) there is a lot of regression (especially with PRK but even with LASIK).
Let's not forget that one can hate his government, but love his country.
I have 20/20 vision but I am considering getting glasses just for the the protection offered. I recently was installing a dish for satellite tv at home, (dish network) and somehow got a metal splinter embedded in the center of my eyes lens. That was needless to say extremely painful and walking around for a few days blind in one eye brings home just how important not only sight is but peripheral vision as well.
Wear glasses and be happy with it.
I highly recommend LASIK, be sure to get "wavefront"... I used to wear my soft lenses for months at a time - clearly, unhealthy. I hated wearing glasses, so I opted for LASIK when I got a chance. I have had wonderful results. My nite vision is better (no halos) and I can see clearly and don't have any problems focusing. It is really refreshing to just wake up and see, without needing to mess with my eyes. Oh, and I love opening my eyes underwater. And no problems in the rain (if your used to glasses).
My best friend didn't have any problems when he was in Taekwan-do and was repeatedly kicked in the face. That says something about durability.
On the other hand, I fully expect to loose my sight again in 20 or so years, but I'd likely opt to get it again - if possible.
Perspective is to Science what Interpretation is to Religion. Obama + Paul FTW
I had mine done a few months ago. Worked like a champ - 20/15.
I do have to say, I did shop around and found the best doctor and best technology I could find. Cost was not an issue for me. Don't trust those $299 an eye places. Plan on spending north of $3000 for the best. These are your eyes, you only get two of them, and any changes are permanent. Like many things in life, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
I had LASIK done a couple years ago. I ended up with 20/20 in one eye, and 20/25 in the other. It was probably the most frightening thing I've ever done (much scarier than skydiving). I had to get one of the flaps redone, because a very small piece of eyelash got trapped underneath when it was put back the first time. I also had a reaction to the eyedrops used the second day, when they took the eyelash bit out. In the end, it was worth it, just to have freedom from glasses/contacts for a few years (though I never had coke-bottle glasses).
:-P
That said...
The only downside is that I'm already noticing that stuff is starting to get blurry again, and I think it's likely due to spending so many hours staring at a monitor from 2 feet away.
Dry eyes and "halos" are the usual complaints, but neither of them bother me.
I had my procedure done at Cedars Sinai (in Los Angeles), and, while the doctor was very good, I ended up in a protracted battle over insurance (due to the incompetence of their billing department), which is *still* going on two years later (and impacted my otherwise impeccable credit record). Make sure you do your research into the doctor. Don't go to a doctor that advertises on bus shelters, or in the back of free weekly newspapers, or anyone else like that. And don't go to Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles.
I had it done 2.5 years ago in Michigan. I have never regretted it. It took bout a min per eye, and the joys of staring at a Reallly bright light, but, I can see fine now. My vision before was -9 left, -7 in right eye aka 20/2000th. I have 20/25 now.
SimonTek
Both my wife and I got a LASIK done on ourselves. Mine was performed by a former teacher (one of the advantages of Medical School...) who refused to perform the procedure until I studied it throughly.
I went to the medical literature and researched it extensively (keep in mind this was in 1999), and found the evidence and risk acceptable. My wife, also an MD, came to the same conclusion.
I had tried contact lenses and could not tolerate them, and I hated wearing glasses (believe me, I look geeky enough without them). The procedure took a few minutes for each eye, but each eye was done in a separate week. My teacher preferred to do it this way (less dominant eye first) so he could over-compensate just a tiny bit on the dominant eye if he found out the correction in the first one wasn't perfect (it was).
We're both very happy with the results, even though I see with just the slightest hint of a halo around bright lights. I've lived with "LASIKed" eyes for years and I would never go back to wearing glasses.
Standard disclaimers apply: I am not an ophtalmologist, much less an eye surgeon. Even though I researched this some years ago, the procedure and equipment has changed and I have not kept up with the changes. YMMV. I haven't seen you; this isn't professional advice. I am probably not licensed to practice wherever you may live. In summary, I just wanted to share my experience as a satisfied patient...
No
I wish I could have LASIK surgery to correct my eyes, but alas having Keratoconus prevents me from having laser surgery to correct it because of the weakening of the cornea. I'll have to wait until I'm old and grey to have cornea transplants, if it ever gets that bad.
Life would have been a lot different for me if I didn't have the eye problems I have.
To the original post: If the benefits outway the risks it would be well worth it in my opinion.
"Hard work never killed anyone." -- Some Dead Guy
Since people use this to get read of near sightedness that means the whole range of focus is shifted farther away, making you more prone to far sightedness as you get older.
;)
No free lunch, but most people would gladly trade in near sightedness for the need to wear reading glasses a little sooner. Personally as long as my monitor is in focus Im chuffed though
I had lasic in both eyes about 2 years ago to correct nearsightedness. I had no serious complications but now i am quite a bit far sighted so much so that i still need glasses to read comfortably fro long period. i found out later that this may have been due to the fact that my certified doc was fairly new to the field and so i sort of became part of the learning curve. the procedure, of course, is well worth it despite my minor beef. i can see very clearly and have fare less eye strain at home and work. heck even night driving has become much clearer and i once again enjoy it. so I am certainly not complaining to have taken off the coke bottles.
but for those of you that need it "perfect" get a well experienced doc and pay a bit more. if you go to a new doc you of course will get a price cut and may be a bit more.
I had lasik about three years ago and couldn't be happier with it.
I left the doctors office with 20/15 vision that slowly worked down to 20/20.
The only side effect that I had were several months of dry eyes, but it was minor discomfort, eye drops helped, and it eventually went away permanently. Note that I do see halos at night, but I saw them before the surgery and they didn't get any worse so it doesn't bother me.
My doctor says that my cornea is thick enough to have it done again if my eyes go bad in the future. If they do, I'll do it again without hesitation.
I had Lasik done in December of 1999....I have 20/15 in one eye and 20/25 on the other. My wife had it done at the beginning of this year...got off the table with 20/15 in both eyes...no stars or blurring...it has gotten better since I had it. My father and step mother had Lasik over the last few years and have excellent vision as well....however I recommend on going to a good doctor not a chain store. If you are in my area (Southwest Ohio) I have some recommendations for you....just let me know.
My wife's uncle(55 yrs old) underwent a Lasik procedure in order to correct both his near-sightedness and his failing far-sightedness. This involves correcting the non-dominant eye for far-field vision and the dominant eye for near-field.
As the old leg-amputee joke goes(we sawed off the wrong leg), they corrected his eyes incorrectly -- dominant eye went far-field and non-dominant went near-field, irreversibly, mind you.
The end result was that they had to go in 3 months later and re-correct his eyes such that they were both far-field, so that now he still has to wear reading glasses.
So, now, simultaneously, let us all point to an object far away, cover one eye, trace your finger back to your eyes...
and now back to the fallout shelter...
Had the surgery 2 years ago in LA (Lasig Eye Center), and the day-time vision is great. I STILL have star-patterened distortion when looking at light sources at night - even dim lights like brake lights. Its not bad enough to be debilitating, but I was hoping for better. That and ocassional dryness are the only changes I noticed.
Seems to me, as someone who doesn't wear glasses and may therefore be completely unqualified to answer, that there are some tradeoffs to consider:
1. There's a tradeoff between having the surgery now and putting it off. Having it now, you risk missing out on better technology and better procedures in a few years. Putting it off, you lose out on having improved vision for however long you put it off.
2. There's a huge, important tradeoff between spending your lump-o-cash now and investing it. If you spend it now, you won't have it later. If you invest it wisely now, you can have a lot more later to spend on things like eye surgery and whatever else.
3. In having the surgery, you're trading risk (of worse vision than you have now) for potential convenience (of having better vision than you have now).
Yeah, I know the above doesn't give you any answers, but maybe it'll help frame the questions.
Posting AC because I don't want this ever coming back on my father.
Get a penis enhancement instead. How bad can it be if it goes wrong? You'll just have a better story to tell.
Having been the recipennt of PKU (i had keracteconus in one eye and astigmatism in the other..) it was worth it. LASIK corrected my vision in the right eye to 20/40 while the corneal transplant (the eye was 25/100) restored me to almost normal vision --just have to wear the specially fitted contact lens for it.
If you are having serious vision problems and want to have surgery done check with a opthamologist first. Don't let some quack opotomtitrist bulldoze you into a decision that is not right. Get a second opinion from another professional. Preferably an opthamologist, who more suited in treating vision problems such as astigmatism and keractconus.
As I was told by my doctor initally before I had the transplant, "There is no laser, there is no special thing...this has to be done..". One hour and $10,000 later (insurance paid for a good portion of it...) I have been able to see very well for the last six years.
So first check with the REAL eye doctor first to see what your options are. Then make the decision.
HELL-O, PEOPLE...
Did everyone forget Ned's experience??
"I never should have had that trendy laser surgery. It was great at first but, you know, at the ten-year mark your eyes fall out."
Be Wary of the Lasik Vision Institute
It doesn't say that the surgery bit is bad, just that there are some pretty bad conflicts of interest. Mainly unlawful marketing practices. Hope this helps. :-)
Hurricane Ivan: A 17th century prison collapsed. All of the inmates escaped.
I've been wearing glasses almost 40 yrs. I couldn't recognise a friend from >10 feet away. A couple of years ago, I asked my optometrist about it. She said "Well...you still see a lot of eye doctors wearing glasses, right?"
On another note, I'm of the age where bi- or tri-focals are the ticket. Different focal lengths for reading, computer, everything else. So lasik 'might' involve still wearing glasses for reading. NOT.
If I still have to mess with glasses part time, I'll mess with them all the time. I don't have to even think about where they are. If I'm awake, they're on my head.
However...I have talked to a few friends and coworkers who have had it done, with pretty stellar results.
These are my eyeballs, though. My only eyeballs.
http://www.rebuildyourvision.com
Good luck and if you go the surgery route, get a good doctor.
Per the subject, I had LASIK done 2.5 months ago. My right eye was 8.5 diopters nearsighted, the left 8.25. "Coke bottle" doesn't begin to describe the sorry state of my vision.
The procedure itself took about 5 minutes per eye, with an hour or so of pre-op work, mostly paperwork. I sat up from the table and could see a wall clock, albeit blurredly. By the next morning, my vision was nearly perfect. I had some ghosting (double image) in my left eye but it went away within 3-4 days. The focus varied in each eye for about 2 weeks, so each day was an adventure in focusing, but we're talking slight variations from perfect.
By the first month's checkup, my right eye was 20/10 and the left was 20/25. Monday I had my 2-month checkup and both eyes are now about 20/15.
There has been a downside: at night, any point source of light like a streetlamp or a headlight causes my pupils to dilate and I lose focus, with the light becoming a diffuse glow. It makes it difficult to drive. I was warned that this could happen and take 4-6 months to clear up. It has already improved but I figure I'll have to wait a couple more months for that to go.
Would I do it again? Goddamn right, and twice on Sunday. Waking up in the night and being able to read my alarm clock, or looking down in the shower and seeing my toes is just the most remarkable thing. I should have done it years ago.
PS: When in Albuquerque, visit Coleman Vision (http://www.colemanvision.com). He's outstanding.
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
i had extrmely poor vision 20/+200 and i got my laser eye surgery done in 2000.
:)
I currently have 20/10 vision. It more then pays for itself in the freedom you get.
I got mine because i was in the military and did alot of active movement and was in teh position where glasses were a liability and burden.
Now the only bad side effects i have is star bursting from lights during night driving, and my eyes are more sensitive to light at nite. Prepare for recovery time cuz my eyes were light sensitive for well over a week or so. But to this day i would do it over and over and over again if given the choice again
I had lasik performed on both my eyes a little over a year ago and have been thrilled with the results. My vision was so bad I couldn't even put down my glasses without fear of never finding them again. Now I have 20/20 vision. Don't spend any time researching the horrors of lasik. Any surgical procedure has the potential to seriously injure you, and hearing about the horror stories will just discourage you. The important thing to research is the place to have it performed. If you have your lasik done at your local Walmart for $99 an eye be prepared for a lifetime of blindness. This is one life event you don't want to skimp on. I had mine done at the Mayo Clinic for $3500. Much more expensive than most places, but well worth the money. I had a team of doctors guide me through the process. It took literally 1 minute. I went home and took a nap, and when I woke up my vision was amazing. It took a couple of days for my vision to settle down, and since then life has been wonderful. Getting my vision repaired via Lasik is the best decision I have ever made.
I had the old fashioned done-with-a-knife kind, and I've been thrilled with it. It was about ten years ago, my vision went from my-God-where-are-my-glasses to 20/15. I wear lightweight glasses now because I got old enough to need reading lenses, but I can still drive without glasses.
LASIK is supposed to work even better.
Then again, maybe you're a pussy.
When I went into the doc's office to get pre-screened, they actually turned me away.
I seem to be blessed with overly-large pupils (11mm diameter) and the eye doc pretty much guaranteed I'd be cursed with halos post-op (or is it haloes? Sen. Quayle?)
So, although I was more than ready to fork over the cash, this stand-up professional refused my money and told me to wait a couple years until the technology had advanced enough to handle the large-pupiled-Sleestaks like me.
My wife's family has had success (3 people) with Lasik. The key does seem to be a good, reputable doctor, with a pelthora of references. None of them have reported halo or night effects.
HOWEVER
I myself am waiting for the next upcoming lasik surgery, which is already in testing. My vision is truly horrible, -8.5 in both eyes, but fortunately I am able to wear contacts and prevent accidental firestorms as a result of light coming through my coke-bottle lenses.
The new lasik version eliminates the halo and night blindness effect - mostly because the process is now geared exactly to your eye - today's procedures are much more general.
I read about this report in either Time Magazine or a Consumer's journal of some sort.
In the long run, it's your eyes, and I can't imagine doing anything to my eyes that doesn't guarantee 100% success. There are far too many horror stories out there for me to feel comfortable with the process yet.
A few thoughts:
1) This isn't like buying toothpaste (to borrow a quote). This is surgery. It is worth it to pay the extra money for someone good, rather than skimp and regret it later.
2) If your correction is still changing year-to-year, don't do it. It's only really worth it if your vision has stabilized for a few years.
3) Be prepared for side effects. Personally, my eyes are much drier than they were before, and small, point light sources have little halos around them...especially visible at night.
4) They may say that you can function normally the next day...don't even bother trying. Personally, the day after I could look out my window and watch the building across the way shift into and out of focus as my eyes dealt with their new shape. It was like tripping, only without the mood to go along with it. Kinda freaky, actually, now that I think about it.
With all that said, I would do it again in a heartbeat. I was about -6 or -6.5 diopter, and about a -3 or 4 astigmatism. That's well beyond the range measureable by the 20/20 scale. I don't need glasses now, for anything. I spent a good deal more than the average person, but it was absolutely worth it.
A year and a half ago, I was (like many other computer type people) a slave to my glasses and contacts. I had myopia (near-signtedness) as well as astigmatism. To put it bluntly I couldn't see $*@#@ without corrective lenses. So I decided to take the plunge and investigate Laser surgery. I settled on Lasik MDs in Canada (where I live). I checked out a few other places, but they didn't really offer anything justifying their much higher cost.
They put me though hours of tests to determine if I would be an optimal candidate for the treatment. I know at least 2 people who have tried and been turned down by them because of various reasons. They're actually not willing to even try it on you if they think there might be any complications.
I had the surgery, which cost me just over $2000CDN. It took about 7 minutes. When I sat up on the table, it was pretty incredible, things were a little hazy, but I could see clearly! It only got better from there. I took a few days off work (and wore dumb old-guy-in-a-caddy type sunglasses), and rested. I ended up with 20/15 (better than normal) vision. I'm perfectly comfortable looking at a 19" monitor at 1600x1200 from a distance of 4-5 feet. Night vision is great too. I've recomended it to a few people already. It is perhaps the most life changing experience I've ever had. Seriously, go for it!
I suggest coming up to Canada to have it done. It's very cost-effective with the exchange rate, and the technology is top-notch.
Let me relate my experience which is probably NOT typical at all!
Eyeglasses in middle school and high school. Hated them, got contacts in college. Constantly irrirated my right eye, tried different brands and shapes (disposable) to no avail. Had PRK laser eye surgery (was $1800/eye and LASIK was $3K+/eye at the time). Both eyes were only slightly near sighted. Left eye is great, right eye they took a bit too far and made it far sighted. My brain had a hard time coping with the difference and the years of being used to near-sightedness. Tried a contact in that right eye to correct the far-sightedness, remember that's the one I couldn't stand a contact in to begin with. Talked them into a free corrective _LASIK_ procedure on the right eye which brought it back to about as perfect as can be expected. Too late though, that time of being far sighted in it caused my eyes to cross. I now wear glasses that are clear glass, NO correction for either eye, thick as can be though because they're prisms to correct the cross-eyed condition.
How's that for coming full circle?
Fast forward a few years.. A friend a few months ago went to Atlanta on a Friday, had LASIK for $750/eye done Saturday morning, stayed Saturday, went back for a checkup Sunday, drove home, went to work on Monday. Perfect ever since...
The operation (all 15 minutes of it) was very stressful. No pain, just stress. It took a few days for the fog effect to clear, but after that it was like I had never really seen before. It's amazing what I had taking for granted with glasses, like no peripheral vision, or having to look through dirty lens to see anything.
I've been glasses free for over a year now and my vision is as clear as it was a year ago. I expect that I'll have to get a tune-up in a year or to, but I'll be less stressed about it than I was the first time.
It may not be for everyone, but if your vision prescription is stable it is certainly worth serious contemplation.
Jon.
There have been several mountaineering injuries and quite possibly actual deaths related to people who have recently had lasix type surgery, then spent more of that 'excess' money on getting a pro to drag them up a big pile of rock (like Everest, or Denali) for the bragging rights. Laser surgery produces eyes that can warp greatly under quick changes in pressure, and leave a person with at least temporary 20/500 vision.
Before you decide that you are safe from this as you are not taking up mountain climbing, you might want to consider whether you plan on taking any high altitude airplane flights, as for example on a business trip to Denver CO.
Who is John Cabal?
Vision science hasn't really come up with a good way to quantify glare in pre and post-operative patients of LASIK and related surgeries. Subjective studies (where they just ask the patients), along with anecdotal evidence, show a tendency for increased glare problems after LASIK.
Within the next few years you can expect reasonable quantitative studies of glare after LASIK. This will give you statistical answers to questions like: What are the chances of having glare effects? and How bad might it be?
And if anyone's wondering: LASIK stands for LAser in SItu Keratomileusis
"Preceded by itself yields falsehood" preceded by itself yields falsehood.
I had mine done almost 5 years ago in '99 and my wife did her's as well 4 weeks after I had mine. Would I did it again? HELL YA!! People who don't use glasses will say don't do it, but until you walk in the shoes of someone who is next to blind without glasses they have no idea. I had halos around lights at night for about the first 5-6 months. No problems now, night vision is just as good as it was when I wore glasses. I after I had done mine more of my friend went ahead and did theres as well, none of them have any problems what so ever. I did mine for about $1000 for BOTH eyes, currently in the Toronto(Canada) area they are doing it for about $1000 for both eyes. When I did mine there were ALOT of Americans doing it in Canada due to the cost compared to the US.
or stupid. That should be 20/40. Also wanted to follow up by saying that the starbursts aren't much worse than I was getting from my old (fat) contact lenses.
one thing to keep in mind :I heard it from a friend:
...
.. he is almost blind without glasses/lens but he won't go with the operation since he gets kicked in the head 100 times a week ...
supposedly it weakens some parts of your eye (dunno exaclty which) and if your head receives big hits (eg you do motocross, martial arts or just get beaten up frequently) there is a chance that your eye just pops out and pours out
a friend who is a kempo teacher told me that, it worths a research...
i think it also depends how bad your eye is
I had it done and I even did it in Canada (watches shudders go through crowd).
So far I'm VERY pleased and it's been 3 years. I have 20/15 or 20/20 vision. The only unpleasant part of the whole experience is that when they acutally use the laser you can kinda smell burnt eyeball....
>> I'm such a turd.
You are what you eat
They said it was caused by some interaction with excessive masturbation. They claimed that up till now, the procedure was short enough that it hadn't been a problem with previous patients and they were adding hand restraints during future procedures.
all the negative posts here are silly. i had the lasik surgery done about 3 years ago and it is absolutely fantastic. yes, i paid $4000, and that is a damn lot of money, but it was worth every penny. honestly, it's hard to realize how great it is not to need glasses until you *don't need glasses*.
when i went in for the consultation, they went over all the risks with me. a very small percentage of people don't see any benefit; a slightly larger, but still small percentage, see a benefit but their eyes gradually fade back (fortunately, for me that $4k includes any future touchups that might be necessary). as for blindness, i don't know what people are talking about here, because the doctors i talked to said that there have been no reports of blindness whatsoever. it is a very safe, well-tuned procedure.
honestly, it's a life-changing operation. most people start to need reading glasses when they get to their 40's, so the earlier you get it done, the longer you'll have to benefit. waiting around for a better procedure to come along is just wasting time. money is just money... you can buy new toys all the time, but 20/20 vision (or better) is priceless.
And it worked, but then it wore off after about 2-3 years. So he needs his glasses again. Granted, he was an "early adopter" and this was about 6-8 years ago or something. But anyway, not too impressive.
Imagine reading Beowulf with your new improved eyesight!
I've got the 30 day contacts, and they're awesome, I put them in at the beginning of the month, and take them out at the end of the month. For me it's just like having normal correct vision.
/ZL
I even go swimming with them in, I'd say consider them over the laser surgery, the worst case if you don't like them is you just pop them out.
Oh, but wait... I never needed corrective lenses nor this surgery ;)
Actually, I do have something semi-related to contribute... I read a while back that there is a strong correlation between "blue collar worker/great vision" and "white collar worker-academic-technical/poor vision". Even though I am thoroughly a geek, my dad was actually the first pencil-pusher in his family, as well as my mom. So that may explain my excellent vision (which I probably take for granted). Meanwhile, children of the "neurons" of society tend to have poorer vision.
My perscription lenses were -3.75 in one eye and -4.50 in the other. I had LASIK 2 years ago, and tested at 20/20 last week. For me not having to worry about glasses or hassle with contacts, even extend wear contacts, were well worth the price and minor discomfort of LASIK.
Yes, there can be complications, but that's true of any surgery. My advice: under no circumstances should you buy LASIK on price. (Would you shop around for the cheapest heart surgeon?) Skip anybody who advertises AT ALL and find yourself a good opthamologist. He or she is going to cost more than the "$299 per eye" guys, but you will get personal care and will generally not be subject to the "LASIK mill" approach. Ask your friends, family and your regular doctor, (if you have one) for referrals.
You could also go to one of the independent laser centers (eg, TLC) and ask which private opthamologists use them, then go interview a couple of those doctors.
Most of the complications with LASIK happen when the surgeon cuts the flap badly then proceeds with the laser anyway. The flap doesn't fit back on the cornea correctly and the halos etc. happen. If the surgeon merely replaces a badly cut flap, then waits a few weeks to try that eye again the results are usually excellent.
I know this concept is completely foreign to most of my fellow Americans- we have record levels of personal debt- but what about saving it?
How about a CD(no, not the shiny round thing- I'm talking about a Certificate of Deposit), treasury note, or put it into a Money Market account? Or, GASP, put it into an IRA? You DO have an IRA, right?
Or you can put it into a separate account and use it to reduce bank fees(or get more bank services) by having a larger combined balance- but it'll be somewhat out of sight so you won't be as likely to increase your MPC(Marginal Propensity to Consume). Many banks allow you to do so with a savings account(which won't make money because of inflation), or sometimes even a money market account(which will beat inflation and thus make money).
Making it slightly less accessible but not restricted(ie like a CD or IRA) will also be handy for emergencies or unforseen expenses. If you are more financially secure, a more restricted investment with better returns would be better.
Please help metamoderate.
"These goggles, they do nothing!"
why run from Vincenzo?
Hi there-
I got Lasik eye surgery in both my eyes from one of the most respected (and expensive) surgeons on the west coast. I did my homework, at the time 4 years ago, he had already done 10,000+ procedures. He has impeccable credentials (Harvard M.D.) and I believe he was one of the people who actually developed the technology. He is the founder of a very fancy institute and did numerous tests both before and after the procedure.
Anyway the reason why I mention this is because although things went perfectly, there was one bad consequence. I HAVE BLURRY VISION IN LOW LIGHT! I understand this is because, when you have as bad eyesight as I did, when the pupil expands in low light it goes beyond the area where the laser ablation took place. The consequence of having light going into your eye from the central focused region and the outer unfocused region is blurriness typically as halos or rings.
During the day/bright light my vision is absolutely perfect, I have better than 20/20 whereas before I had something like 600/20. Unfortunately my work takes me into lots of dark rooms looking at relatively dimly lit images and judging them for image quality/artifacts. So it was BAD!
As a consequence I am keeping up with technological developments waiting for a fix. Now they are using something called wavefront technology, I guess they are able to ablate away your cornea in fractions of a wavelength of visible light (the laser is UV to prevent heating which would kill underlying cells). Unfortunately I think this does not help me because I need the laser to be able to get a larger region of my cornea so that my expanded pupils don't reach the boundary of the ablated area.
I am not sure if my problems were due to my extremely nearsighted vision or other factors. In any case, I am posting this warning that even the best doctor may leave you with BAD results. (I have my complaints that this part of the industry seems to be poorly regulated, while I was given disclosures on the procedures, I do not think the odds of poor results were clearly explained to me. So if this doctor thinks I'm defaming him, I'll be happy to take him to court.).
Good luck.
I myself have 20/20 vision, and have always had it that way. My mom had RK over 10 years ago, back when they still did it with a scalpel. Before that she could not see without very thick glasses. Now she has perfect vision, and she has not had any problems since the surgery. It has increased her activity level and self esteem remarkably. It was very good for her.
My old boss got laser eye surgery last year, and she hasn't had any problems. After she got it done she had visible blood around her cornea, which was pretty bad-ass. Of course, that was only temporary. She too now has perfect vision.
A couple years ago my father had laser eye surgery for his cataracts. I know it's a different procedure, but it's pretty similar. A few months afterward, he had some problems with retina separation, which the doctors felt was related to the procedure. He got secondary surgery to correct the problem, and hasn't had any problems since then. He's required reading glasses since the surgery, but then the surgery wasn't meant to correct that anyway.
I don't think I'd get laser corrective surgery if I had bad vision. Maybe I'd feel differently if I actually required glasses. I feel that surgery damages your body, so you shouldn't get it unless you need it.
If you decide to do it though, a possible way to hold onto a bigger chunk of the pile of cash-- here in the northeast, there's a fairly regular train of people up to Montreal and Quebec. The going rate for the surgery up there is somewhat under half of what it is here in the state... the general plan is:
leave US wearing glasses on Thursday
get new eyeballs on Friday
spend weekend in deluxe hotel of your choice
get followup exam monday morning
come back thru customs without glasses.
Followup care by your local guy;
couple thousand dollars extra in your pocket.
all the usual caveats about not having it done in an alley by a guy with a coat hanger apply....
I had my LASIK surgery over 5 years ago - January of '99 at the New England Eye Center (part of Tufts Med). At the time, it cost me $4k ($2k per), with $3000 coming out of my FSA at work (I could draw the money early, then pay it tax-free all year). Real-world cost after the tax benefit was about $3k.
Anyhow, my surgery was performed by Dr. Helen Wu, who was one of the early whizzes with this surgery. My vision prior to the procedure was 20/200 in both eyes (myopia) - afterwards it was corrected to slightly better than 20/20 in both eyes. My weaker eye is slightly astigmatic, but it's not noticeable to me.
At the time I had the surgery done, SOP was to do one eye the first day, then test further, adjust if needed, and do the dominant eye two weeks later. Which is why my dominant eye has no troubles at all.
As for the surgery itself, prep time was about ten minutes, with the surgery itself lasting under a minute. The clamp they use is very Clockwork Orange in nature - worth a chuckle at least. There is no pain and no discomfort, and your eye will feel like it has a hair in it for a little while afterwards. Some people have night vision problems afterwards, but I did not.
My summary opinion: The best $3k I ever spent. My goal was low-key - I just wanted to be able to function without having to wear glasses all the time, and I was able to eliminate them entirely. It is likely that I will need reading glasses in the distant future - somewhat more likely than it might have been without the surgery. I think that trade-off is well worthwhile.
If you do it, don't go to "Harry's House of Discount Eye Surgery". Go to a reputable institution, preferably affiliated with a major medical institution in your area. Despite the automation involved in contemporary LASIK, I think it's best to leave one's eyesight in the hands of the best available professional.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
I itd kd83 ldfjkl 3dfsdklj sdfsdfsdlk j ok. jaghas dkah dks *7jwks happy dksaje fksajhd. httr luck!
You're probably considering LASIK. At this time, the Air Force bans anyone who's had this surgery, due to concerns over possible flap movement.
If you're not planning to fly jets or go scuba diving (similar concerns) any time soon, then you should probably go for the absolute latest equipment available: the FDA list of approved lasers with approval dates is here. Keep in mind that we can't yet replace entire eyes, so now is not the time to save money. I recommend wavefront-guided "custom" LASIK.
Finally, if you get to feeling risk-averse, Ophthonix is introducing wavefront-guided custom eyeglasses later this year, which will give you 20/15 vision with none of the risks of letting some guy slice up the only eyes you have using a procedure with less than ten years of results.
My lifelong dream is to just have enough cash in the bank to quit my job and live on the interest. If I was about to come into a fat swack of cash, the last thing I'd be wondering about is how to spend it ;)
I had 7.5 diopters, now I'm 20/20. the halos at night you get used to, jeez life is a lot better being able to see the inside of a shower etc etc. I had this 4 years ago, lasik, so I imagine it's gotten better. if your eyes are bad, I recommend it.
Gave her near perfect vision. Less than a week later, I was dumped. I don't think this was coincidental.
Many of us geeks are married to horribly beautyfull weoman. Once you get this surgery,
I've heared that they go through a startling transformation and become ugly hags. So, take that if you will, under consideration.
Hold out for Staar Surgical and their intraocular lenses. Basically it's an implanted contact lens. Unlike Lasik, it's reversible. You can change your prescription. But it's not quite approved yet.
I could look up "Vasectomy dangers" and got a list of people who had something go horribly wrong.
Here is an idea, find some scientific studies and figure the odds. NO procedure is 100% safe.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I had it done in december 1994 which makes it almost decade ago now. My original vision was incredibly short sighted in that I could barely read a sign with foot high letters from 10 feet away or so.
Following surgery my vision has remained above 20/20 though after the first surgery I did get a minor correction (though this was expected and didn't cost a thing extra as most people has the quality of vision reduce as the eyes heal over the next week or so), frankly my surgeon explained everything extremely well, every risk, every complication and I did a hell of alot of research on the net.
Pretty much every complication that can occur during the surgery can be corrected though with modern laser surgery and it cousins the lasers don't even go a micron off target and they do triple redundant measurement and calculation prior to surgery so you have bugger all chance of an error.
The horror stories you may hear of probally as a result from a bad surgeon using 20 year old equipment. I recommended it to my family and friends and I have yet to hear one person that isn't stunned and kicking themself for not having it done sooner.
This is the place I did it http://www.perfectvision.com.au/index.asp surgeons name was Con Moshegov and gives you an outline of the equipment they use etc though I don't know if its the same equipment they used when I had mine done, I doubt it infact as they update every few years it still should give you an idea of what a good place to get it done will do for you.
-- - REDWiRE
Would anyone care to share their real world experiences?
Before I had lasik surgery, I was spending about $600/yr for glasses and contacts. I could only use hard contacts and my glasses had to be custom made. I simply wanted to be able to get ordinary lenses in either contacts or glasses. I also wanted to wear sunglasses. My contacts gave me terrible headaches, so I rarely wore them. My glasses were far too thick for snap-on sunglasses. I couldn't afford another tinted pair of glasses.
I was told that it was reasonable to expect my vision to get down to around 50/20. After the surgery, my left eye was 20/20 and my right eye was 30/20. That was many years ago. I had a thorough eye exam last month and my left eye is still 20/20, but my right eye is 25/20.
Because I have gotten rid of both contacts and the terribly heavy glasses, I've been headache free since the surgery. The only downside to the whole thing was the cost. When I had it done, it was $5,000.
As for researching the surgeon... As I said, it was a long time ago that I got the surgery. I looked at the AMA's articles on the surgery and found that one of the two original surgeons who tested the process in the United States while it was awaiting approval was in my hometown. I chose him over the others around here. I later discovered that all of the other places actually sent you to him for the surgery - one lasik surgeon, but over 20 offices offering the surgery. I'm not sure how that all worked.
The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
...that he thinks HE looks smarter with glasses. I think I look *better* with glasses (possibly smarter too but who knows?), but I have worn glasses for so long I may just be used to them. And, I really like my frames :-)
Freedom: "I won't!"
Are there any stories out there relating how bad it can be if it goes wrong?
OK, try this: Put on dark sunglasses. Wrap a dark beach towel around your head a couple of times. Close your eyes.
That's about as bad as it gets.
It definitely works. I went from having a -10 diopter prescription (which, if you're not familiar with such numbers, is really nearsighted, to the point I couldn't read a clock 2 feet away) to having perfect 20/20 vision.
But, it's not without risks. For example, my night vision is somewhat degraded because uncorrected light on the edges of the cornea (when I had the surgery done the current technology only corrected out to about 8mm) creates 'starbursts'. I'm still happy with the procedure, but it's not always perfect. There are chances (low, but statistics don't mean anything when you're only talking about one set of eyes) that much worse things can happen.
Any good doctor will clearly present your options and risks. Ask around for a referral from friends as to who to see... and don't just take the lowest cost vendor!
The 1500 is a guess, they said. The chart stops at 20/1000.
Initially, I couldn't read close up. I was like an old person w/o bifocals at the store - holding items at arms length to be able to read the label. That passed gradually over a period of weeks.
Initially my night vision really sucked. Lots of "blooming" around roadsigns reflecting the light and whatnot. Improves somewhat over time.
I had what I called "ghosting" - anyone who's had LASIK that I've talked to (with significant correction) knows what I'm talking about. Hard to explain. Some of it may be residual near-sightedness I was told, even though I could manage 20/15 on the eye chart. That's what you sometimes hear called "LASIK 20/20" - you can do the eye chart test, but things aren't necessarily crisp. At one point, predominantly with high contrast images (black and white bumper stickers, the moon, etc) I would get something like a 25% intensity image about half-shifted down and to the right (or left, I forget). This got better with time.
Some of the residual artifacts I am not sure if they resolved themselves, or whether my brain adapted. Keep in mind your brain adapts to the fact that you have two huge blind spots in the center of each eye, due to the optic bundle entering the rear of the eye.... yet under normal circumstances you don't notice it. I wonder too if the brain subtly corrects for some of the residual artifacts. Hmm..
I wholeheartedly concur with those that say to go to a high profile, higher cost place. I went with a firm that had done the likes of Tiger Woods, yada yada. I went from 20/1500 (guessed, off scale) with astigmatism to 20/15. Someone I knew went from something like 20/800 to 20/40, best case. They spent a few hundred, I spent a few thousand. There's also the integrity factor... the place I went, for the single price, if you need a slight corrective surgery after healing is about done and the results are known, they would do that for the included price. Of course they're gambling you won't need it, but it's there. Also unlimited check-ins if you think something is not quite right. Some of the low lead-in prices make everything else ala-carte - you could end up paying thousands anyway.. and does the place offer a nationwide network of places you can get checked under the initial base contract for no additional cost?
Anyway, back to the integrity thing. They measure how thick your corneas are, and where I went, they remeasured right before surgery. (should be standard, but I've only done it once, so that's my only data point) The double check showed a little thinner than before. They were going to be taking out the maximum cornea allowed. Which meant I could not have a followup procedure in that eye. They sat me up in the chair before the procedure started, told me that my chances for 20/20 were diminished because their estimate of how much cornea they needed to remove was exactly how much I had. No followup work could be performed. They were willing to tear up my check right then and send me on my way, because they couldn't offer the service they promoted.
I still went ahead with it, and overall have been pleased with the results.
To those who say you could go blind... yes you could. I could have also paralyzed the side of my face when I had my wisdom teeth cut out. If I ever undergo general anesthesia, I could die.
It's like saying getting into a car means you could get killed. Yet an awful lot of us do it every day. Check out the odds and place your bets.
One thing I did was ask how many eyes the place had done. Then, what was their rate of problems. They didn't know off hand, but got me the answer. 2 or 3 minor problems out of 50,000+ eyes left me thinking my odds were pretty good. I placed my bets, and consider myself a winner.
Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.
w
Incredible coincidence... I got laser eye surgery today. All I can say is, it's amazing. The best investment I've ever made. (I'm actually not supposed to be on the computer right now, but... oh well.) I can already read things at distances that my parents and brother cannot, and my vision hasn't even cleared up yet, the way that it is supposed to. I got Wavefront LASIK. Traditional LASIK had many problems with it: for example, it tended to injure night vision, and its accuracy wasn't incredible. However, Wavefront LASIK actually pinpoints what your individual eyes look like, and works on your eye so well that it has great accuracy, doesn't hurt night vision much, and has fewer problems associated with it. I can already tell you that I highly recommend LASIK Wavefront, even if it leaves you broke. It's that worth it.
A friend of mine had it done and had bad complications. He was legally blind for months and while he recovered somewhat I don't think his eyesight is better than when he started. My eyesight is starting to decline but I will put up with the reading glasses thankyouverymuch.
mt
I'd just get sharks with frikin' lasers attached to them.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I had Lasik surgery about 18 months ago. It was the best decision I ever made. Prior to Lasik I sported thick coke bottle glasses that I could've burnt small children with. I imagine I could've seen a few days into the future with them too. As far as the Lasik goes it's painless but like any surgery you will go in with lots of apprehension. The surgery does not take long and you go home and take a little nap after its over (they usually give you some valium). When you wake up you will notice that you can see better than before but things will be a little off still this passes within a day or two. Lights will have a kind of star effect at first with your new eyes but that usually passes within a few months. I personally had some problems with night blindness for the first month and could not drive at night. The other side effect was a greater sensitivity to light, this lasted 9 months for me. The hardest part was not rubbing your eyes for several weeks after the surgery. You also will have to wear space boy googles when you go to sleep at night for the first 2 to 3 weeks. I see 2020~2010 now depends on the day of the week you catch me. A word of warning, complications are possible there is a website called lasikeyes for folks who have experienced these complications and you will also need reading glasses earlier than the average individual. I recommend you educate yourself thoroughly about the procedure before you make a decision. The whole experience was fantastic for me. I can see more than 3 inches in front of my face without glasses now. :)
http://www.surgicaleyes.org
Look, if you wear glasses, surely you know the phenomenon where they get all scratched up and you start seeing halos around light sources at night?
Well, the process does that to your cornea. And you start seeing halos around lights at night.
Most people get this only very mildly, but a few have a real bad case. Some have so much of it that they start seeing a dozen little lights around the "main" image, because the scars create a lot of refractive surfaces on the cornea, like a fly's eye.
I figure I can last a few more years with glasses while they work that little bug out of the system. Because once the damage is done, it's done.
Not really anonymous, just forgot my password.
Well, I work with someone who got it about 3 or 4 years ago. Apparently she was pretty bad before, had been working with computers for a long long time, etc.
Anywho, she loves it. Says she doesn't really have any problems except for 1, writing on white boards appears 3D! That, and minor halos around lights at night, thought this is probably an astigmatism.
I've heard of issues 10 or 15 years down the road with hardening of the cornea, but obviously haven't looked into it yet since I don't need it (though I'm sure I will.)
The only problem she had is that the numbing drops didn't quite work, and she was actually able to feel the laser. (ouch!)
Even so, she's glad she had it done. She was almost blind without her glasses and now she has better vision than I do.
My advise is to get the best doctor you can afford. These are YOUR EYES and this is no time to go cheap. Get someone who is well recommended and has a good track record of success.
As for myself, I am naturally 20/30 in my left eye and 20/40 in my right, which is not perfect, but still legal to drive in my state. Therefore, I will definitely NOT be getting this done.
Your disclaimer is not strong enough. Based soley on the information in your post, I am having elective coranary quadruple bypass. If it goes bad I will sue you and your wife.
I'm still hiding behind a pair of armor plates suspended ahead of my eyes on metal frames...
Now THAT'S an advantage of glasses that people often forget. It's nice to always have a layer of tough polycarbonate (or whatever glasses are made from now) protecting your squishy, delicate visual system at all times.
Freedom: "I won't!"
I'm not that bad (-1.5) but I can't stand wearing glasses, and when my optometrist gives me the OK, I'm getting it done.
Karma: Can only be portioned out by the Cosmos.
Their techniques may work, but that site screams snake oil scam artist. I these people really wanted to help people like they say they do they should be publishing in journals and making the information available to the community. The way they are currently handling themselves they are certain to be dismissed as frauds because for all we know they are.
lost my mod points last night or i would have.
My sister decided to get laser surgery when the insurance at her job started covering it. She was legally blind before without any contacts. She went to the guy that was recommended by multiple doctors, and afterwards (well, after the initial swelling of the surgery went down) she had better vision than she'd ever had with contacts even.
So it's not all a sales pitch when you hear how great it works, but as with any other surgical procedure, check out the person you plan on seeing before getting it done. And ask as many questions as you want to first, too. I'm always surprised by people who don't feel comfortable questioning their doctor. I feel way more comfortable when I get an answer to my question and the impression that the guy with the knife knows his shit.
You should also be aware that there are a number of different techniques out there. Wavefront guided is one of the options (that's what I had done) and is supposed to give better improvement than the standard operation. I got 20/20 vision out of it and I started being very nearsighted. There are also some options as to how they go about it. One method is to cut a flap in the cornea with a keratome (kindof a little suction device that they stick on your eyeball that has a blade in it.) Another way they do it is to polish off the surface of your cornea insted of cutting it. The second way takes longer to heal but has not cut the cornea and is supposed to be stronger in the long run (as well as removing less material for those of you with thin corneas.) Best thing to do is to research several places and not necessarily pick the one with the best price. The places also use different equipment. You can find out what machines they are using and get some statistics on surgeries with that type of machine. For example, the machine they used on me had a larger treatment spot area (though I don't remember what the size was) and is supposed to help people with large pupils in the dark since you have the potential to see through part of your untreated cornea when your pupils are big.
As far as I'm concerned, unless they can give me a 100% guarantee it will work, I won't have the surgery. It's just not worth the risk of going blind, or other complications. Can you imagine not being able to see clearly at all? Regardless of whether you have glasses/contacts? When they've done a million consecutive surgeries with a million consecutive successes, maybe then I'll consider it. Call me paranoid, but I consider my eyesight one of the most important things in my life, and no reward is worth the risk, no matter how small, of losing it.
nice joke, dr bongo, no one could SEE that coming... you totally Blind-Sided the forum... one could almost say that your laser-edged wit has sliced microscopic cuts that have changed the index of refraction of our prime perceptive cortex!
and now back to the fallout shelter...
my wife asked for a divorce right after her fix,
and I think the two were somehow related
It was about two years ago. My company had a flex spending plan that let me pay for big medical expenses tax free.
...) of the light and light spots when they are off by a 1/2 of hte wavelenght (2/2,3/2,4/2...). They used to just measure the surface of your eyeball.
It was the best thing I ever did, but here is my experience.
The first meeting was a consultation where they told me the pro's and con's of the treatment I was going to undergo. They said that I would not be knocked out, but drugged up a little. Also, the current procedures only allowed them to treat an area of a certain diameter. At night, when my iris dialates, it will be possible that I will see a corrected image and an image formed by the part of my cornea that was unshaped by the laser. This means I would see a clear image with a bit of my old vision super imposed on it. This was acceptable.
The next visit was the actual surgery. I had a friend drive me there. I think I could not wear my contact lenses for half a week before the visit. They gave me a very tiny, tiny pill. But I guess with valium it does not take much. I was feeling very good after about a half hour. They make you sit in the office and read stuff while the valium takes effect.
After that time I was called into the surgery. I sat down in a dark room in a chair. The doctor told me he was going to cut open my eye and things would get blurry. Unfortunately, what they didn't tell me is that everything is going to be dark when they cut open the eye and then get blurry. I guess they put something over my cornea when they cut the skin. They started to cut my eye and everything went dark in that eye. I freaked out! I didn't move, but I thought I would forever be blind. It lasted what seemed like 30 seconds. Then they removed the thing and pulled up the section of skin. I was relieved that I could see blurry in that eye. It was truely the most frightening 30 seconds of my life.
They made me stare at a red light while they cooked sections of my eyeball away. I do mean cooked because when they were done I could smell burnt flesh. It has a very strong smell. They flipped the skin back onto they eye and I could immediately tell a difference.
They did the same thing with the second eye. When I was done they gave me a pair of blue blockers and told me to keep my eyes shut for as long as I can (basically the rest of the day except for every now and then). I could see fine when I managed to open my eyes, but it hurt very bad, so I left them shut. They also heal better when they are shut.
I got some medicated eye drops and my friend drove me home. I feeled my way up to my bed like a blind man and went to sleep.
The next day, I could see great. My eyes still hurt like a b:tch, but I could see great. I had another appointment at the doctor to check out my eyes. He also checked my vision. 20/15. Amazing. I could see much better the day after the surgury than I have every been able to see with glasses or contacts. The details that I could see in normal objects were stunning.
Apart from the 30 seconds of sheer terror, the surgury was O.K. I'm a bit tougher than most, but I had the nurse hold my hand when they cut me second eyeball open. The technology for the surgery is getting better every year. I've heard that now they are using laser interferometry to measure how light makes it's way through your eye. Basically, they expand a low power laser until the beam is about an 1/4 inch or so in diameter. They shine this beam into a beam splitter. Then one of the new beams goes into your eye, one goes into a mirror. Some of the beam entering your eye will be reflected back to the beam splitter, also most of the beam hitting the mirror will be reflected back to the beam splitter. These beams will get merged together by the beams splitter. You will get dark spots where the difference in the paths is equal to 1/4 of the wavelenght (or 3/4, 5/4
Anyway, that is my experience. I'd say do it.
If they screw up really bad, you get to wear an eye patch!!
"Arrr maytee!"
Or perhaps a monocle on the unburned eye...
"Care for some tea with your crumpet, sir?"
Think of the possibilities!
Go to www.docboard.org and enter your doctor's name and state. You can see if the doctor has ever been in trouble or been sued for malpractice. I found out one of the most popular Lasik doctors in my state had been banned from performing the procedure for a while because he messed it up too many times. I went to another doctor and got a great result (20/20 both eyes.)
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
An optamologist I know does not recommend laser eye surgery, even for individuals with quite poor eye sight. There exist thin lenses for glasses and contacts that can correct even quite severe vision impairments. It is also the opthamologists who fix the mistakes made by laser eye surgery, and they may have more insight.
...but seriously, why not pay to have a robot slice open your eyeball and vaporize pieces of it?
Where's the love for blind people?!?!
Don't believe anything I say. I crash test crack pipes for a living.
My vision is great after the surgery, 20/15, and I can see close up really well too, but...
My vision wasn't that bad to begin with, 20/100, and I had some problems, and am still having some problems. They cut a flap in your cornea and laser underneath it, then put the flap back, but there's not really anything to hold it in place, and that's fine for most people, but for me, my left eye flap came loose 4 days in a row after the surgery, before it finally stayed put. Then later, my right eye started getting "surface cells" growing underneath the flap, so I'm going monday to have those cleaned out... which means my recovery for that eye is basically starting over. I originally had the surgery on Dec 1, 2003, so it's a big start-over.
All that said, I'm glad I did it, and when it's fixed on monday, I'm pretty sure all will be fine after that.
I had the newest type done about a year ago just days after it was approved here in the states. Star Eximer Laser is what I think its called. Whole procedure took less than 8 min and I couldn't be happier with the results. No halos, perfect vision even at night. Best thing I ever spent my money on. Don't go cheap though, you only have two eyes...
I had it done a few years ago. Either 96 or 97, not sure.
It wasn't perfect. My left eye was done twice, but it was amazingly quick, easy, and painless. I didn't even need to take the pills I was prescribed. The only hitch in the whole thing was getting the eye drops. The genius pharmacist at cub foods gave me RUBBING ointment instead of eye drops. If I'd been totally ignorant, I might have followed the directions on it and rubbed it into my eye. LOL
Of course, it didn't help that I didn't get the prescription before the surgery instead of after.
There were people there who had problems, and had to redo the surgery several times. One woman was telling me about how much pain she'd been in.
But my eyesight before the operations was 600, 420. No bloody idea what that means, but I couldn't drive without glasses. Severely nearsighted. Ever since, I haven't need glasses at all. I expect I might not pass my next drivers license eye test. Almost failed it in 2000. Couldn't quite made out whether one letter was O or D. But she passed me anyway. Fortunately for me, my 2004 renewal didn't require even going in. Just sent in a check. Woot!
The only things I've noticed since, is that seeing in the dark is slightly worse. Sometimes I have to look at a light source for a sec, then I can focus better on things in the dark. Not sure why. Thought it had something to do with the the size of the reshaping.
During the first year or so, my eyes were somewhat out of balance. My right eye used to be far better but my left eye is now. In the last few years, either my eyes have balanced out, or my brain has gotten better dealing with the discrepency. I no longer notice any difference.
Another problem I had was floaters. I had more of em since. Floaters, as in those odd little curly shadows you see when looking at a white surface. These are bits of something or other floating around in your eye. I've always had em. most people do. But the operation made more.
Would I do it again? Yes. It was worth it at the time, even if improvements in the surgery have since been made. I'm happy with what I have, even though if I'd waited until now, my vision would be better.
My only suggestion is to make sure you get a reliable surgeon. Not everyone is a good candidate for lasik. If your cornea is too thin, you can damage it with this operation. Make sure the doc you use isn't just approving everyone to make quick cash. You might wanna talk to a few opthamologists first. (make SURE you use a fully licensed opthamologist!)
There are other operations available too, such as having a ring put under your cornea instead of having a laser remove some of the material. Also there are a series of contact lenses that, over time, gradually reshape your eye without any surgery.
Best of luck on whatever you decide.
I had LASIKs in both eyes last June. I'm seeing better than 20/20 out of both eyes now, before I couldn't see the big E!
I had made up my mind a long time ago I was going to get it done. I know somebuddy where things went bad too. I just was tired of glasses and contacts.
It was one of the scariest moments in my life though. My heart was beating so fast the computer had trouble locking on to my eye (I calmed eventually) And the smell of burning eye didn't bode well, but when I opened my eyes briefly at the end and could see the numbers on the clock hanging on the wall across the room (cloudy, but clear?) I was happy. 24 hours later I had 20/20 vision.
From what I learned before hand, it is all about planning. are you a good canidate or not, if there is any question to this question, don't do it! Also make sure you have a compident doc. any mess ups with the setup and you are screwed.
At my exam, he determined that my pupils were too large. When fully dilated, like for night vision, my pupils were larger in diameter than the area of the eye the laser machine was able to cover. This machine is built that way.
My doctor was surprised, saying I was the only person he ever met like this, but that maybe as I passed 40 years old later in my life I might be able to have it done since the pupils shrink slightly with age.
He told me in no uncertain terms that he would not perform the procedure at this time, and that I should not try to get it done elsewhere, as my condition would cause a 'halo' effect when my pupils were fully dilated such as at night while driving.
My advice to anyone wanting this procedure is to gather as much info about the procedure, the place you are going to have it done, and the people involved. Take your time and be sure. My own research revealed many problems that can occur if this is botched. NLG
Flash is the Herpes of the Internet.
your.opinion >
I think I can give you both point of views. My wife had the procedure performed on both her eyes three years ago, and she still has a better than 20/20 vison on both eyes. She is really very happy with the results, her night vision is not as perfect as during daylight so she wear glasses to drive at night (a very light prescription tough), I do not really understand why night vision would be less good, but it looks like a common problem. As I wrote her vision did not decrease in the past 3 years, but I heard that in some cases people lose a little the "perfect vision" they had just after the surgery.
I, instead, have decided that is not worth the money. I chose a good frame for my glasses and I'm happy with that.
In general I feel that if I can, I prefer to avoid any kind of surgery.
In most cases laser eye surgery is a form of cosmetic surgery (people does not like the way they look with glasses and find contacts inconvenient), so all depends of the way you feel about yourself with glasses.
When I went for the initial consult, they said that you have to have a stable prescription. Since my prescription changes about -0.25 per year, they said in 2-3 years I would need to wear glasses again.
I don't think you can have lasik more than once. Does anyone know for sure?
Homer no function beer well without.
Now I have 20/20 vision and I'm quite happy with the results. The important thing to understand is that, although you'll be able to throw away your glasses immediately, your vision is not going to be perfect right away and some adverse side effects will be more noticeable for several weeks/months after the operation and fade away gradually.
In my case, the worst problem was night glare because my pupils dilate a lot in darkness (your doctor will be able to test this), but it became less and less noticeable. Same with dry-eye (which was a pre-existing condition for me): lasik tends to make that worse.
But I was aware that this would happen and the tradeoff was still worth it for me (I can drive without problems at night, I can watch TV and movies etc. I can live with a slight 'halo' effect around pinpoint light sources in darkness).
As long as you don't have unrealistic expectations and understand all the potential disadvantages (blurred night vision), you should be fine. It also depends on the amount of correction you will be able to achieve. Doing lasik to correct minor problems isn't probably worth it; but if, like me, you wear glasses pretty much all the time, you'll probably be a very happy man afterwards.
The United States Military has approved the procedures for some of their personnel subject to filing out the necessary paperwork and notifying commanding officers. There is more information here
maybe this will be helpful?
I had LASIK over 2 years ago. I had some astigmatism with slight myopia in my right eye, and severe astigmatism with slight hyperopia in my left. I'll tell you about my doctor choice first.
One alternative I had was a chain (TLC). The disadvantages of that were that the particular laser they wanted to use (LadarVision) was an hour and a half drive away, and also that since my one eye was in the most severe category of astigmatism (more than 3 diopters), I would have to pay $500 if I ever needed a touch up. Cost here was $1900/eye.
I chose a doctor who is affiliated with a very large university here in town, which made me feel better. He has the only LadarVision in town, and touch-ups are free, regardless of starting condition. Cost here was $1600/eye. No reason not to choose this guy.
The surgery itself is quick and relatively painless. The doctor doesn't really have to do much with the LadarVision, because it tracks and compensates for your eye movement, regardless of how much you move. Including up-to-the-minute tests, anesthesia, and the surgery itself, I was in and out within an hour.
The recovery can be rather uncomfortable. It feels like you have a bunch of sand in your eye. I took a shot of NyQuil and woke up an hour later pretty miserable. Another shot of NyQuil put me out for about 4 more hours, and when I awoke, I could barely feel that anything had happened. I spent the evening playing Playstation through my bug-like eye shields.
You'll hear it said, and it's true -- the most amazing part is when you wake up the next day and look at the alarm clock. It's incredible. I drove myself in for the check up the next morning. I was playing hockey 48 hours after my surgery.
I was constantly evaluated for a year afterward, and my left eye with the severe astigmatism had crept to the point where I wanted to look into getting a touch-up. I would have been happy without it, but happier if it could have gotten better. I had it done, and there has been measureable improvement since then.
I started out 20/200 before the surgery. I now sit between 20/20 and 20/40, depending on the time. I sit at a computer probably 50+ hours a week and need no enhancement to do so. There were absolutely no problems to speak of throughout the entire process, and I am happy with the result. Well worth the $3200 (actually less than that because of my Flexible Spending Account). I had a great experience and would recomment it to anyone that can find the right doctor. For reference, my doctor is David Castellano at Stoneridge Opthamology, in Columbus, OH.
Available now at Los Alamos National Laboratory
I don't know how it works in the USA, but in Canada, it's helpful to get your family physician to recommend and refer you to a laser eye surgeon. That way the surgeon is at least morally accountable to a professional, rather than just a customer, and sadly but truthfully it can make a difference in the quality of time spent on your procedure.
There are two common types of surgery, Lasik and PRK. I had the latter a year and a half ago. It took 6 months to heal, though it has been fantastic since. There can be problems with dry eye-sockets and blurry night vision, but it is typically, from what I understand, that these problems simply get worse if you had them before the surgery, and are not necessarily direct byproducts of modern surgery. (If I recall correctly, older PRK could cause, rather than just exasperate, blurry night vision)
If your prescription is above -6, I have heard that the risks of complications, including blindness, are substantially higher. Though for both Lasik and PRK the risks are marginal, with PRK the complications are less often and usually less serious. Lasik heals in approximately two weeks, however. Be sure that you see a surgeon that does both, as PRK may be a safer option for you if you have an astigmatism, though Lasik is often the preferred method. If the surgeon cannot offer PRK, then you may not be presented with your personally superior option.
As for the surgery, it takes less than 5 minutes per eye, and is painless. For 2 weeks after PRK, however, it is very painful as your eyes begin to recover from the surgery, and it will be some time before you can see properly. You will probably be given ample drugs, sleeping pills, pain killers, tranquilizers and muscle relaxants, and you will want to really take it easy for this time. Your eyes won't return to normal vision for probably 2-3 months. Lasik doesn't have this delay in recovery, and is substantially less painful in the recovery.
It is really an individual question, and you probably want professional advice on the matter.
Hope that helps. Finally, eyes aren't something you probably want to do on-the-cheap, so find someone reputable.
There are studies available.
You need to find out what the percentages are.
Last I heard the percentages were mostly favorable, but a higher percentage than I am comfortable with reported imperfect correction and a higher percentage that I am comfortable with reported worsening vision. Combined the percentages were not good (although still far less than the success percentages).
In my view, when the percentage of perfect correction hits 98% or higher, I would consider it. Right now, IIRC, it is nowhere near that.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
How bad were your eyes before? Can you, or anyone else, speak more about PRK vs. Lasik? I'm considering getting PRK as I've heard of issues with skydiving w/LASIK. Need to look into more, but if anyone knows of good comparison links or anything, I'd be interested.
Most of the people who are (or were) functionally handicapped without glasses are all for this tech, and those who are mildly near-sighted prefer to keep their specs.
:)
I'm at 6.5 diopter nearsighted... To put it in real terms, that's 5 - 6 inches of focus before things blur badly. At normal monitor distance, I can't read the thinkgeek logo
I'm getting this surgery as soon as I can, cos frankly, it's a choice between minor vision defects like night halos and being almost completely non-functional without glasses.
-- You can't give it, you can't even buy it, and you just don't get it!
Laser eye surgery does work but the eye changes as you get older. What is right for you now won't work in ten or twenty years. A woman at my work had it done about 10 years ago and is back in glasses now. Talk to people who are fifty or older. Almost all of them will need glasses for reading. Most of them had perfect vision when they were younger but their eyes changed and then they needed glasses. The same thing happens even if you have eye surgery. It is fine at first but ten years later your eyes will have aged and you will be back with the glasses.
I had lasik surgery about 4 years ago. before that I suffered from having to either wear glasses or contact lenses every day.
I was at that time and still am into various sport/hobbies that really make wearing contacts a pain. Scuba Diving and swimming just are not the same if you lose a contact lens in the pool or the lake. Skiing doesn't take too kindly to wearing glasses.
As for if I would do it again.. In a heartbeat. Just the financial savings on broken glasses/replacement contacts and solution would be enough to convince me. Also the fact that I don't have to worry about putting contacts in every morning.
My vision is 20/20 in both eyes and has remained so for all 4 years. For the first 4 months I had halos at night and after that they vanished (at least down to the way they were before I had the surgery)
Recently I had a check-up with my regular eye doctor (not the one who did my surgery) and his comment was that if he didn't know that I had the surgery he would not be able to tell except for a very minor mark on my left eye from where the flap healed (only visible during his inspection).
Only a professional can say whether you are a candidate as each person's eyes are different. For me the procedure worked FLAWLESSLY. It was 12:53 when I sat up from the operating table and looked at the clock without glasses or contacts.
If the doctor says that it'll work and you trust the doctor. Go for it.
My Mom got laser eye surgery about 8 years ago, and it was a total debacle. Her eyes are now worse then they were before, so she essentially can't drive at night. This was a while ago, so perhaps the technique has improved, but there is definately a chance that this could mess up your vision.
making a bigger lump of cash? your the kind of person that is 50,000 dollars in credit card debit.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I know it sounds boring and unenticing, but if you have debt - even secured debt like a mortgage on a house - it might make sense to use the money to pay down that debt early. And if you still have outstanding credit card debt, just remember you're trading high interest rates for LASIK surgery. Just because you have cash in hand doesn't make debt any less real. Of course, if you're debt free and don't want or need anything else (like a house) - sure! LASIK surgery might look pretty good. And it could look good for personal reasons too, just like liposuction or other cosmetic surgery might seem desirable for others. Just remember your debt load, and act accordingly. --M
My Aunt and Uncle are opticians with their own practices and will always recommend that people avoid laser surgery. From what I get explained is that they cut the curvature of your usually spectacle lens into the lens of your eye. The problem is that they lift a flap to do this, the flap is just put back over and left to heal so rubbing your eye after surgery or general movement can lift this flap which is bad. It also thins the eye lens which is usually 11mm thick could end up as thin as 6mm. Also once your get older you'll most likely end up back wearing glasses.
I had mine done about 10 years ago, (First lasik Doc in Canada, blah, blah)
Before with glasses I was almost legaly blind. The Big E on the eye chart was blurry.
With glasses I had very sharp and precise vision, (I didn't need the galsses for very close work like soldering).
Now, after the surgury my eyesight was A LOT better, (I didn't need glasses to drive anymore (20/40 is my current vision)) BUT everything is slightly blurry.
It's like I am stuck reading news-print all the time. I can't stare at a computer moniter for very long, and now I wear glasses 100% of the time. I payed $4400 CDN when I got mine done. My self-esteem went through the roof for the first 6 months after getting it done.
Now I want to see that docter die.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
I had a co-worker who had laser eye surgery. Afterward, he suffered with vision problems and dryness. Before you go under the laser, check out this article and this site!
It's glasses for me....
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit.
I had it done about a year and a half ago. After doing much research on the various options (no-touch vs. in-tacs (inserted contact lens implants) vs. Lasik I chose no-touch. This procedure involves no scalpel cutting of the cornea (unlike Lasik and in-tacs) and was quick and offered the fastest recovery time as well as the possibility of touch-up procedures if your vision goes out of whack (unlike Lasik which would require a cornea transplant if something really bad happens). The procedure took about 45 seconds total and after 3 days of slight/moderate discomfort (mostly light sensitivity), everything was great. I could drive immediately after the surgery (20/50 vision) and have been 20/20 since (actually 20/15 in one eye which is better than normal). The only negative thing is the for the first 10-12 months, you will need a lot of eye drops (eyes get dry more easily) but after that, everything will be back to normal sans the bad vision.
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
You say you had the surgery today and "I can already read things at distances that my parents and brother cannot, and my vision hasn't even cleared up yet, the way that it is supposed to." That's not exactly a helpful testimonial.
a.) your vision hasn't cleared up yet - well I sure hope it does.
b.) keep in mind that many people who encounter serious vision problems after laser surgery, report improved vision at first, followed days, weeks or months later by extreme, possibly uncorrectable, vision problems.
I do hope you'll be one of the lucky majority, but please don't "highly recommend" this procedure based on your same day excitement.
Don't have any; I've got great vision. But I had a co-worker for a while who got laser eye surgery. He was happy as hell; took a couple days off from work just to walk around and look at all the stuff he'd been missing.
That said, keep in mind that A. YMMV (usually said about software, not your fricking eyeballs! and B. No one knows what this'll do 20 years later.
There's no sig like this sig anywhere near this sig, so this must be the sig.
I went to one of those laser centers and unfortunately, LASIK is for people with relatively normal near-sighted vision to start off with. Usually Custom LASIK works best for people with less than -3 or -4. People with -4 through -5 usually can get regular LASIK and they can do PRK all the way out to -8.
You may be able to get these procedures from a clinic if you're outside of these ranges but most laser eye clinics will tell you that you will have a high chance of poor vision quality if you're outside of these ranges.
For double digits negative diopters like me you might have to settle for PHACIK IOL where they actually insert a small hard contact lens inside your eye. However, IOL's (intra-ocular lenses) have been tested for some time in cataract patients. With PHACIK IOL they do not modify your cornea or lens so the operation has the benefit of being reversible.
I am only 24 years old, but I took my earnings and splurged on corrective eye surgery 4 years ago, and to this day, I believe it was the best investment I have ever made.
However, being that I depend on my vision in all aspects of life, I researched my options and went with the most experienced and most reputable. Kremer Laser Eye Center was my choice as they make safety a top priority and was the first US institution with approved equipment for lasik surgery. I live in the area of Kremer's main eye center (King of Prussia, PA) only about 20 minutes away which made my decision even easier. Anyway, their prices were a little higher then their competitors, but from the beginning, I had the attitude that my eyes were worth premium service.
As I stated above, it has been nearly 5 years since the surgery (which btw, was very quick, smooth, and extremely painless) and I have no problems or regrets. I have recommended this to many, and have not encountered a single person with serious vision complications as a result of this surgery. If you decide to go through with this, do your homework, ask many questions, and be sure not to cut any corners just to save a buck...with todays technologies, there is little chance of recovering your vision if the most unfortunate were to happen. Good luck.
Kremer
Driving at night is a pain, city driving has rings around lights. Sunlight keeps me in sunglasses. NoNo longer need glasses, did not like contacts.
The only thing new in this world is the history that you don't know.[Harry Truman]
I say Go For it!*
*My father had it done 2 years ago after a friend of the family raved about it. My fathers prescription prior to the surgury was something like -6 in both eyes with a -3 or -4 stigmatism. Growing up he was the kid with cokebottle lenses. He paid approximately 3 grand for the surgury. That's my first point,
1. Go with someone reputable, and pay for someone reputable. Don't go with some bottom barrel eye surgury place.
2. Be prepared. Most people only have to have the laser on their eye for 5-7 seconds... my father, with his extreme prescription and stigmatism, had to stare at the laser for 17 seconds with one eye. That's a long time, especially when, in his own words, you can smell your eye burning.
3. Have I mentioned going with someone reputable? Due to his extreme prescription, he had to go back twice to have it corrected. A bottom barrel place isn't going to do that, especially at no extra charge.
4. Don't expect perfect. Again, the doctor told my father that 20/40 would be great for him. He got lucky and has 20/20 vision now. In both eyes.
5. It's a long recovery. While he could see immediately after having the surgury done; there was a multiple week process of sleeping in certain positions and applying eye drops regularly. Also, as stated by others in this discussion, your night vision will be impaired. The family friend said it took about a year for the tracers from headlights to go completely away during nightime driving.
6. Studies have shown it accelerates your need for reading glasses. Following the surgury, my father had to wear reading glasses for a few months to read anything close up. The doctor told him this was expected. This diminished over time. My father is in his late 40's, so the concern over needing reading glasses sooner was a moot point, and it was also something that didn't bother him. Even if you read alot, distance vision is used far, far more often... just the thought of not having to clean my lenses off when it rains or being able to see the alarm clock in the morning is incredible.
All in all, I say go for it. If you have the cash, I think it's a worthwhile investment, but find someone reputable... someone that someone else you know has gone with, and do your research! There is the possibility for something to go wrong, just like there is in any surgury, so you want the odds of this happening to be as low as possible.
My father still squints to see the alarm clock. Not because he can't see it, just because he had to for 40 years. Old habits die hard.
Find qualified surgeons first. Talk to people you know, find someone you can directly talk to, and see what they thought of their doctor. Get reviews from the persons patients that are *not* cleared by the doctor.
Once you have a short list of good surgeons, THEN, and ONLY THEN should you compare price.
If you live in or near CT, Fitchman Eye Center is supposedly quite good, practically the entire staff of Country 92.5 has gone there with very good results for all of them.
I'm lucky to have 20/20 vision, so no personal opinion. However, I was at an optics conference a few month ago and had a chat with a professor of ophtalmology who works on vision correction. Let me put it this way - he still wears glasses. Without going into technical details, if glasses don't bother you too much you may want to wait a few more years.
My wife had laser eye surgery earlier this year and everything went perfectly. So it cost like $4,500, but the 'CustomVue' (or whatever it's called) laser surgery from a doctor who has personally performed over 25,000 surgeries (and happens to be a friend of a friend) was well worth it.
It's been a mixed bag, I love not having to mess with glasses and contacts and the vision is perfect 20/20 (from about 20/80), but since I had it a year ago I've had 2 eye infections that required antibiotic treatment drops and I always wake up with extremely dry eyes. I'd do it again though.
Windows sux. Am I cool now?
The surgery itself took less than five minutes, and she was seeing better as soon as she got off the table. After four days, in a follow up appointment, it was determined that she had gone from having 20/50 (off the top of my head) to 20/20.
The basic surgery goes like this:
- After numbing the patient's eyes, an incision is cut along the outer tissue of the eye immediately outside of the pupil.
- After folding back the tissue, exposing the pupil, the laser is fired into the patient's eye, removing corneal (sp?) tissue, which takes about 30 seconds per eye.
- The tissue covering the eye is put back into place using what I can only describe as a micro-squeegy.
Depending on how much tissue is removed, it can take anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks to heal from the procedure. Until healed, you could experience problems with glare coming from headlights, florescent lighting, monitors, etc.., but sunglasses quickly solve any light-sensitivity you may experience. As far as recommending it, though, I'd say if you have to wear the proverbial 'Birth Control Glasses', go for it. After all, if wearing glasses or contacts corrects vision adequately, why mess around with your sight?The risks are a bit high, though, but our experience has been nothing but positive. If you want more info, go here.
ASCII pr0n. Coming to a Lunar Lander near you!
If you're looking for personal testimony, I'll add mine. I think LASIK is a VERY good investment. I had it done two years ago, and I've been extraordinarily happy with it. I personally know six other people who have had it done between two and fifteen years ago, and they are ALL, without exception, giddy with delight. Everyone tells me horror stories, but they're just that--stories. I don't know a single person who has had so much as a minor glitch after the LASIK procedure. Oh, and there ARE studies about the structural integrity of the eye 20 years down the road--LASIK has been around for longer than that!
Are there risks? Of course. But check the statistics: Worrying about going blind as a result of LASIK is like worrying about being in a fatal wreck when you drive to the grocery store. It happens, but the payoff of convenience greatly outweighs the risk.
My suggestions:
1) Go to a seminar at a reputable clinic that performs the surgery, one that has been around for a while and has a good record. They'll give you all the information you could want.
2) Make sure your doctor is a good opthalmologist, preferably a cornea specialist, not just a LASIK surgeon. The computer does 99% of the surgery, the doctor is there in case something goes wrong. In that EXTREMELY rare case, you want a good cornea specialist.
3) Sign up to pay for the surgery from a medical savings account at your job. Have it done as soon in the year as you can; the first week of January is ideal. The money is deducted tax-free from your pay throughout the year, making it effectively an interest-free and tax-free loan. Plus, if you leave your job for any reason, you don't have to pay any remainder back! (This happened to me, and I ended up saving around $450 from being laid off. It was one of the few bright sides of losing my job...)
Is eye-implants.
Either the 2 semi-circle "intacts" type, but they cannot be used @ -4 or lower and another slashdotter said something about halos at night.
or
The complete lens implant which is the ultimate solution. They can go as low or as high as you want. They've been implanting them for cataract patients for years and years and it's reversible.
It's always a good idea to go for a doctor with a good reputation though. Also, the procedure needs to be done with specialized laser pattern equipment to get your eye back into perfect shape after the insertion-cut has been made, check for that.
I've seen it done on several documentaries and it's what I'm going to have done when I get the money.
The old docu showed implanted lenses with semi-circular spokes at the sides of the lens, like the shape of a galaxy where the lens is the center and the spokes hold the lens in position inside the eye behind the colored part/iris part of your eye.
The newer documentary showed the internal lens in front of the iris and attached/clicked tight onto the colored part of your eye. Looked less invasive.
- -- Truth addict for life.
I have a pretty big astigamatism in my left eye. I went for a long time with it uncorrected, since my brain could compensate by relying more on my right eye (which is 20/10) and correcting for the angular problems. However, there were annoyances, and when I consistently found myself reading with my left eye closed, I got glassess.
Great, except I can basically never take them off. If I do, angles are distorted. My brain has unlearned it's compensation and would need a couple days with no glassess to re-learn it. Well this is just annoying, espically for things like headphones which press against your head. There's also the issue of if I lose them. They weren't cheap and I don't care to replace them.
I would love a procedure that would let me get rid of these forever, and if lasik were safer, I'd do it (I'm a bad candidate being that I'm young and can survive just fine without glasses). If I had vision so bad I couldn't see without glassess, then I'd really consider it.
I've had 4 bouts of eye surgery: 3 corneal transplants (due to 1 rejection) and 1 wound revision. I will be having lasik in 3 years in both eyes. The worst that can happen is that you could go blind ... you have to weigh what you have against what might loose. Each time I've had eye surgery, I've had to examine that; even with 20/30 with glasses that 20/200+ without tells me that its worth it. I'd like to be 20/20 or better (I was once 20/15).
I'm coming up on year two. Went from 20/400 to 20/20. My left eye had pretty bad astigmatism and my Lasik was pre-custom. So that eye has a very slight problem. The good news is that at age 54 I seldom need to use "readers" since my left eye is great close up while my right's great for distance. Sort of a happy accident that isn't likely to occur with the new "custom" Lasik; custom's much better at correcting astigmatism.
My biggest advice is don't waste time money or eyes at one of the low-dollar lasik shops. Keep saying to yourself "discount eye surgery", "discount eye surgery" and with luck you'll get it. See a medically conservative opthamologist who doesn't need your business to keep his doors open.
WTF do you need eye surgery for???
Do you really think women will find you more attractive without glasses??? Think AGAIN...!!!
If you really want to make it a ex-lump of cash, consider spending it on a prostitute and loose your virginity.
if your pants fit well, it's not only because of the pants
This isn't my story, but my sister-in-law who, granted, is not exactly what I would call stoical.
Her vision was something along the lines of 20/800, and everybody chipped in (over $5,000) to get her corrective eye surgery for college graduation. She completely freaked out during the surgery. They have to cut a flap into your eye, while you're awake, and with little-to-no anesthesia. She had a complete panic attack at this point, although continued through the end.
After healing, her eyes were something like 20/25 in one and 20/35 in the other. Terrific improvement, and she stopped wearing glasses. After a few months though, she was back to 20/60 in one eye, and 20/80 in the other. She doesn't wear glasses all the time, but is required to for driving. This kind of relapse is fairly common I believe, but not this severe.
Like every other deal I've heard of, she can go back any time she wants to get corrected the rest of the way, "with no extra charge." (yeah, right) She's not planning on doing so, mostly because of the fear of the surgery, but also because of cost. The 'deal' was for surgery with the same laser they had previously used, and they didn't use that one any more. The one they had now was 'better', but came with more expensive licensing. So in order to finish the correction, she would now have to pay something like an extra $500 per eye.
So, your mileage may vary, but it didn't work very well for her. And whatever you do, watch out for those 'deals' with fine print.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
That trendy laser surgery is great in the beginning but after ten years your eyes will fall out.
Disclaimer: If I disagree with you I'm probably trolling...
I went to a new doctor recently, with the insurance offered at my new job. They were all hot to sell me on getting the surgery, took me in for a tour of their operating room, talked up the benefits, the whole nine yards.
And then I noticed that the main doctor was still wearing glasses. I asked him about it, and why, if the surgery was so great, hadn't he had it himself? His answer was that he was "really really confortable" with his glasses, had been wearing them a long time, blah blah blah, but that for ME the surgery would be a great improvement.
Needless to say, I declined their generous offer to have my insurance cover the procedure, and got my normal contact lenses.
http://www.hood-meddac.army.mil/default.asp?page=l asik&vi=n&mnu=0
Military personnel perform their duties in a variety of operational environments that may not be the ideal situations for the wear of eyeglasses or contact lens. For example, head gear, NBC gear, high altitude "G" forces, salt spray, night vision goggles, and sand affect the visual performance of soldiers who wear eyeglasses and contact lenses. This is a readiness issue.
For this reason, the Department of Defense has approved the Warfighter Refractive Eye Surgery Program.
I also worry about the chicken pox vaccine .. you get a neutered virus ... how do they know it wont cause shingles in later life like the real virus?
Before you shoot me down for just being a luddite I'm a big fan of vaccination, don't believe in the occasional current hysteria (made sure my kids were vaccinated) ....
Everyone's circumstances are different, and the reputable practitioners warn that there can be no absolute guarantee - you are just playing the odds as with any surgery, and generally they are good, but...
That being said, I'm glad I did it overall. My diopters were more like about 7-8, with moderate astigmatism IIRC. Coke bottle glasses for sure.
After I hit 40 and the need for bifocals developed, I found looking at computer screens all day (mandated by my sys/web admin jobs), got to be really uncomfortable. I never could get bifocals that I liked - tried progessive, but they did not have enough reading area for me, and the conventional dual lens types were quite annoying with the obvious dividing line interfreing with my view on many occasions.
At 51, I had enough unspent pre-tax "Health Care Reimbursement Account" money for a substantial down payment on the Lasik surgery, so I checked into some providers in the area. Definitely go with someone with experience and a good track record. They did an assessment, and said I was just above borderline in corneal thickness, so I had to decide.
I did it, and it was rough at times. I had to go back for one adjustment re-burn, and 2 clean-outs of surface epithelial cells trapped under the corneal flap, and which were clouding the vision in that eye as they died off. Also, both eyes regressed somewhat, but the left stablized at about 20/60, and lo, and behold - it is almost perfect for viewing the computer screen, so I said let it be, and let's get the right as close to 20/20 as we can (it had regressed to 20/100). And although it was the one with the cell growth, they got it to around 20/25 or so, and it is my "long-distance" eye.
This mono-vision solution has worked out for me, and is not unusual for over-40 contact lens wearers to deal with the bifocal problem. I have gotten Rx sunglasses that correct both eyes to 20/20 for daytime driving, but often don't bother with them for around-town driving when off-the-shelf sunglasses suffice. I use the Rx shades more for trips, and all-day outdoors activities. I also have glasses with only the left lens (from the regression period shortly after the initial surgery) to help me with night driving, but the lenses are so much thinner and lighter than in my pre-Lasik days, that it's not an issue for me.
And, for the most part, I can do without glasses most of the time if I need, or want to, unlike before when it was positivly dangerous for me to try to cross a clutterd room without glasses. As with the person in the posting this one responds to, dry eyes are more common now, and I find it helpful to keep a supply of Natural Tears vials handy. My night vision is not as bothered with the "stars" effect it seems, although long hours of "computer staring" without enough breaks for the eye drops will leave me with a bit of hazy vision as when swimmers get too much chlorine in their eyes - drops and rest usually clear it up by the next day.
All in all, I enjoy the much greater, if not total, freedom from glasses, especially coke bottle bifocals.
HTH,
ROC
If you ask the question "How many ophthalmologists opt for Lasik themselves ?", I think you will have your answer. (Hint: Very, very few. In fact I don't know of any, and I know many dozens of ophthalmologists, many who do research on all the problems with Lasik.)
Limbal relaxing incisions seem a lot safer than Lasik, it can only fix the astigmatism though ...
... but to fix my mild near sightedness Im not going to face the risks associated with Lasik/PRK.
Personally I might consider that if I had bad astigmatism
I had a horribly depressing phone sales job once where we had to manipulate and bully customers into purchasing crap they didn't need. We had products from anti-depression kits, to your run of the mill ab-buffing machines. In the mountain of cheap junk we were hawking, one product caught my eye. It was called "The See Clearly Method."
When learning about the product we were to sell, they told us the history of eye care, and how the profession has survived. In a nutshell, they explained that much to the way the world of medicine works, cures don't make doctors money. Good vision doesn't make eye doctors money either. As your vision gets worse and worse, you find yourself getting new and stronger eye glass prescriptions over and over. You are a customer for life.
Now, that seemed like a slightly hoaxy sales pitch, but what interested me most, was that it was completely machine and gizmo free. By using the stuff that came in the kit over a period of time, you could repair your eye muscles. It claimed to even get you 100% off of glasses over time. From the website, "The See Clearly Method provides simple techniques that strengthen and relax the eye muscles responsible for focusing so your vision can improve naturally -- in just minutes a day."
If that interests you, check out the website.
I hope that helps. Even if it doesn't work, I suppose it would be worth a shot before you blast a pulsating laser into your naked retina.
My wife had the procedure on both eyes recently. Before, she needed more than six dipoters of correction in each eye; now she has 20/15 vision.
We went to the best doctor we could find (and in Houston, there are a whole lot of doctors). She elected for the Intralase procedure which doesn't use blades. The OR is open to view to all visitors when not in use, and all procedures are televised. Everything was extremely professional, which isn't surprising given that it cost $4500.
Oh, was it worth it. She could across the room without glasses only twenty minutes after the procedure. They gave her an extra valium, she went home and that was it. Of course there were several followups, and when they decided that one eye could use more correction they gave her another procedure for free (and will continue to do so for two years).
Now, note that my wife was legally blind without correction. If your vision is better and you're just looking to fix your eyes out of vanity then your priorities should obviously be different. Yes, she has artifacts, mainly starring around bright lights at night. But that happened with her glasses and contacts anyway, and what little artifacts there were are fading with time.
I had 20/600--that means you can see all of about 6 inches...EVERYTHING is blurry beyond that, which I had to explain to many an optometrist... that no matter how BIG the E is...it will still be blurry.
:) ) It's crazy cheap now a days and well worth the money.
Now I'm 20/20-20/25 and that was done several years ago.
Come to Californa to the Lasik Institute (Also one in Vegas if you'd like to combine it with a vacation
Some people are sensitive and it hurts a bit. If you've ever worn contacts...your eye is accustomed to irritation and it shouldn't be a problem at all. They will offer you Valium to lighten the trip.
If your eyes continue to shift, you can have it done again in most cases. Which is kinda nice.
All in all, a good experience for me, and my girlfriend too, she had it done in Vegas a couple months ago with no problems.
DON'T let them sell you those crazy expensive tear duct plugs. They offer them at $300 and if you continue to deny them, they get cheaper and cheaper. I told my girl NOT to bother, but they got down to $50 and she let them put in the dis-olvable ones. Waste of fifty bucks, she coulda taken me out to dinner and bought a nice bottle of fricken eye drops!
i got lasik about two years ago and it was
the greatest thing that ever happened to me.
i weighed all the risks and decided that i had a huge percentage chance of something really great
happening and a tiny percentage chance of
something absolutely horrible...
one of the places i looked at for my decision was
www.surgeryeyes.com
The intial night vision problem took a few months, but it disappeared and now my night vision is better than what it was with glasses. The main thing I would recommend is researching the doctors in detail. Don't get it done in a parking lot and don't go for one of these "deals". Your vision is not something that should be trusted to the lowest bidder!
Wearing glasses since age 8, I've been through a lot with these eyes. I finally began to treasure the optics I was born with when I realized that what most people label myopia is really built in magnifying glasses. Some people think it's been a valued trait for craftsmen in the past, allowing "close work". Now that I'm experiencing presbyopia as well, I'm very happy to retain the ability to read printed material closer than arms length, without glasses.
As my (also myopic) sister discovered to her horror, that close vision goes away with correction to "20/20" by laser surgery. Turns out she still wears glasses all the time for near vision (yeah, she's presbyopic too - since this is the lens getting stiff, laser can't do anything for this). Though this consequence may be explained in the forms in some convoluted way, it certainly didn't come across to her before the "ax" descended.
So before you decide, think about and notice how you use your eyes. If you are outdoors a lot, and use middle to distant vision mostly, you are still a good candidate. If on review you notice you use close vision, ie tend to like to take off your glasses to check out something close or nearby, be aware that will go away.
Coincidentally, I just had laser eye surgery done recently, just two days ago.
I had the laser eye surgery done in Australia, there is a number of competing centres here which do different types of laser eye surgery.
I used the chain of clincs called 'Laser Sight Centres'. They specialise in the LASIK and LASEK procedures.
As a background, my eye sight precorrection was mypoia (short sightedness) with degree -3 dioptres in my left eye and -2 doptres in my right eye. I also had mild astigmatism (general blurryness of vision). This isn't a very severe case of shortsighted-ness but it is enough to prevent me from driving without glasses. It also means that I pretty can't do day-to-day living without glasses or contact lens.
I first went in for a initial consultation. This was a session to determine my suitability for the procedure as assessed by a opthamologist and a consultation with the actual surgeon who performed my surgery.
The first step of the consultation was an examination with a couple of machines. This was not intrusive/painful at all. All I had to do was to stare 'into the light' and the machines would generate a map of my corneal thickness (in LASIK surgery, the essentially cut off a bit of your cornea so having more to begin with is good!).
Good things: I had a relatively thick cornea.
Bad things: I have large pupils (they have to cut a large flap to compensate).
After the session with the machines, they make an inital call if you are suitable for the procedure. Given my moderate/low mypoia and large corneal thickness I was definitely ok.
The next part is to assess my overall 'best corrected visual acuity'. This is essentially the same thing that happens at my annual visit to the optometrist (read the bottom line. Is this lens better? is the green or red better? etc). This is to assess what I can get out of the procedure. For some folks, they have weak vision and no amount of reshaping the eyeball (which is what Laser Surgery is essentially) would correct that. For me, my BCVU is 6/4.5 (which is the Australian way of saying 'better than 20/20').
I was deemed suitable for the procedure and would be able to get excellent vision if all went to plan.
I then had a sit-down session with the surgeon. He was very patient with me and explained all the possible complications and the risk rates associated with those complications. He explained how they would manage and control those complications. He also outlined briefly what would be happening during the surgery and the steps I would need to take after the surgery. He was very proactive in seeking out any concerns I might have about the procedure and felt quite comfortable.
(my only complaint was that he was a bit of a joker, when I asked him 'so how long have you done this for?' he answered 'hmm, first surgery tommorow...' -- dick)
All up, it took maybe 1 hour. I felt that there was no pressure for me to proceed with the procedure. They were not pressuring me into doing something I was not comfortable with and they would not perform the procedure unless they were confident with the success of the procedure. They were also quite strident in making sure I had realistic expectations of the results of the procedure.
I booked in for the surgery 2 weeks after the initial consultation (it is actuallly possible to do it immediate after, but the surgeon was booked out).
On the day of the surgery, I am came in. The first step was to organise payment (5200 AUD, that is a whole heck of a lot of money) and then I was led into the 'clean area'. Two nurses were present to prepare me for the surgery (one was quite attractive! Unfortunately I spent most of the time with my eyes closed from here on...)
They put a lot of drops in my eyes to prevent any risk of infection (it stings! lots). From here on, I couldn't see very much, I had to keep my eyes closed. They also gave me a valium tablet to calm me down and some paracetomal for the pain (to com
My wife had LASIK done four years ago and the results were excellent. She went from 20/150 to 20/15 in both eyes. Look for a clinic that does a lot of LASIK - practice makes perfect.
I am a graduate student in biomedical engineering, and did a rotation through a vision research lab three years ago. One of the lab's goals was to improve the algorithms used in modeling the cornea's surface, in order to reduce the risk of optical side effects, so I learned quite a bit about this very topic. The best advice I can give is to go to a university medical center to get it done. Those doctors are experienced and have the best diagnostic equipment, and will turn you away if you might not be a good candidate. Also, academic clinic will often give discounts if you're a student at the affiliated university. The bargain basement eye surgery clinics you see advertised in the newspaper and on TV tend to be more concerned about quantity rather than quality. I was appalled to hear that many don't even bother running standard screening that could disqualify patients. So here are the things to know: Probably the most common complaint after surgery is poor night vision, to the point that some people can no longer drive at night. This happens because your pupil opens up big in the dark and can allow light to pass through the rough edges of the zapped area. This causes a lot of optical distortion, resulting in glare, starbursts, etc. There's a few technical issues as to why they can't just zap a wider area (including the surface modeling problems I mentioned). Bottom line is that if your pupils open up especially big, refractive surgery is not for you at this time. A reputable clinic will check to see how big your pupils open up. This brings up another point. Even people who can no longer see at night might still have "20/20" vision. [A technicality often expoited by the less reputable clinics.] 20/20 vision means that you can read the next to last line on an eye chart from in a well-lit exam room. It means nothing about glare or night vision. There are other tests which a reputable clinic should run (eye pressure, corneal topography, etc.) Also, keep in mind that you can (and should) have each eye treated on separate occasions. Get one eye zapped, let it heal, see if the results make you happy. If so, get the other one done. That said, the risk of a totally botched operation is quite small. It's *extremely* unlikely that your daytime vision would be any worse than when you started. Nearly all of the ophthalmologists and optometrists I know who work with refractive surgery have had it done themselves. Also, most patients and friends I know who've had it done are extremely satisfied with the results. I am currently disqualified because of the big pupil problem, but otherwise I would get it myself...
Ablation does not cause much heating to the remaining tissue, but the bits of it turned to gas arent cold by any stretch of the imagination while the laser is firing.
My father, a physician, got his LASIK done about two years ago. He's 55. He'd been wearing half-frames for reading since age 40. At 50, he needed glasses for distance vision too. He saw the opthalmology group where he refers patients and they did it for him. And yes, it cost a lot more than $299/eye. He's now 20/15, and only wears his half-frames for reading, once again. He refers his patients for LASIK if they ask, but he and the eye docs are very up front about the risks and the percentage of poor outcomes and complications.
Since I have stable 20/100 vision, I asked him last month about it. He has absolutely no regrets, and I'm planning to get it done within the next couple of months. For a properly selected set of patients, it's definitely worth considering. You've just gotta go in with your eyes open! (Couldn't help myself)
I had it done a year ago and I am so happy. It's way more than being free of glasses or contacts. You seriously feel superhuman after wards. My eyesight now is way better than it ever was with glasses. Especially if you have astigmatism, glasses can make things clearer but they cant get rid of ghosting or fix the interference with parallel lines (ever notice how people with astigmatism can't hang pictures straight?).
Anyhow... Save up money for a doctor with good equipment. I paid $2000 per eye and it was so worth it. You don't need to worry about holding still, they lock your eye still with a suction cup and the all laser machines shut off instantly if somehow your pupil starts to wander.
Ask your doctor about his success ratio. What percentage of people have to come back for corrections and also what he considers success. Cheap places will say that 20/40 vision is a success (you still need glasses) and won't do a touch up if thats as far as you get. A decent doctor will draw the line at around 20/25 and do a follow up if need be. My doctor had over 20,000 surgeries under his belt and had zero injuries and only a handful of people who he couldn't get to 20/25.
Also check out the "Wavefront" technology. They do a high res scan of your eye and custom cut to fix your exact defects which usually results in vision around 20/15 or 20/10 (twice as good as perfect!). It's amazing. I had a friend who had it done (my eyes were too bad to try) and he can things I can't even imagine!
The risk of injury is basically nil if you get a good doctor. The parts that actually suck are as follows: the surgery doesn't hurt but the smell of cooking flesh really gets to you, the fact that you can't rub your eyes or get them wet for a few weeks is really annoying, and lastly the fact that you need to use eye drops for about a year is by far the worst part. But even with all that it's still worth it!
Many of my military buddies who have had this procedure, and its sister--PRK--have had mostly good results. Only one guy of six had any real problems. In this case, he was 20/15 in one eye and 20/100 in the other eye post surgery. About half of them told me they have ghosting and flares while driving at night, but more of an annoyance than a true handicap. The miliitary (well, at least the USAF) is allowing and paying for PRK while LASIK undergoes further evaluation. Personally, I'm going to wait until I'm 40 or so. My eyes have steadily degraded from 20/20 in high school to 20/100 four years out of college. I'm also into astronomy and since contacts work well for me, I'm hesitant to allow ol' Murphy into my life.
I read slashdot to keep from that crap on tv, at least it's not this Juhan (that's JEW-han) guy we have in Beaumont with the box of Arm & Hamer. Using it to make fun of those lawyers from Houston. And isn't Jim Adler the one in the road rage PSA, yelling at the drivers like he does at his potential customers in his commercials?
I don't think I would try this. http://www.lasikdisaster.com/ten_reasons.htm
Crushing my karma one post at a time.
Most eye doctors I know wear glasses. Same goes for ophthalmic techs. Take it for what you will.
I drank what? -- Socrates
i had a mishap in a bar back in my college days. i had an altercation, which resulted in a tearing of the retinal in one of my eyes... i ended up having laser surgery that essentially "spot welded" the retina around the tear, which would prevent the humorus vitae(eyeball juice) from lifting the retina away from the back of my eyeball, which would have caused permanent blindness...
the doctor had a wild looking prism which he affixed to my eye, using what felt like vasaline, as an indexing fluid between the prism and my cornea, essentially making the prism and my cornea a single optical element. he was able to look thru one portion of the prism for aiming purposes, and there was a window on the other side which was where the YAG (yitrium aluminum garnet) laser was introduced via a light guide.
the entire procedure took about 2 hours, and consisted of approximately 250 spot welds. each laser suture was a blast of light measured in pico-seconds. the sutures are controlled in energy and time duration so the end result is that the retina is cauterized(welded) to the back of the eyeball. too much energy or too long of a time duration would cause the laser to just burn a hole thru the retina... even though my eye was desensitized with some kind of cocaine derivative(numbness and dialation), each suture felt like a quick tiny cigarette burn, followed by a flash of light. i recall this vividly, because i was completely conscience; i had to be in order to follow instructions(look left, look right, blah blah blah)... it was definitley bearable, but toward the end of the procedure, it had a cumulative effect which i can only describe as fingernails on a chalkborad, with one more finger added everytime a suture was applied. i just kept reminding myself "this too will pass, blindness won't..." that was eighteen years ago, and i still have sight in both eyes, and the last exam i had gave me a thumbs up, stiches in the eye are still holding. one side effect of the whole thing is that because if the cuaterizing actions, there was some miniscule scabbing which took place, which translates into increased "floaties" in the one eye.
a couple of years ago i accidentally scratched my cornea and ended up going to the eye infirmary at northwestern hospital because of a subsequent infection. i started rapping with a couple of the doctors and got into a conversation about contacts and radial keratotomy (rk, the precursor to lasik), mostly i was always interested because of my school study of optics and lasers, and my previous surgery. my doctor basically said there were reasons why he and the other doctors were still wearing glasses! the following is a synopsis of our conversation, as i recall...
contacts have a tendancy to scratch the cornea, which can lead to infection and scarring of the cornea. this reduces the overall flexibility of the cornea. the cornea needs to change shape during the focusing process, but if it becomes less flexible, your eye loses the ability to focus easily, hence the need to older folks to have bi-focals or even tri-focals. soft contacts will reduce the corneal scratching, but it has the side effect of reducing the amount of oxygen which can reach the cornea. in either case contact wearers eventually migrate back to eyeglasses. RK and lasik are essentially the same process - make a series of incisions in the cornea, either with a scalpel or an ablative(as in burning away) laser. the cornea heals from the incisions, the process the scarring of the incisions deforms the cornea into the desired shape, causing a correction in your vision. problem with this is that everyone scars differently based on genetic propensity, health factors, and age. the process is not perfect, and so the results are not always predictable. at best, you'll walk away with near perfect vision. at worst, you might not have made enough of a correction, or an over correction.
BOTTOMLINE:
save your money, and don't fuck with your eyes. you want to blow some cash? get some cool frames and a dually water-cooled G-5 and 30" display! anyone know if the NOS peoples frames are still available?
three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
I have been saved from injury on many occasions by my glasses. I am not wild about Lasik for the same reason I'm not wild about contacts. Everytime I absent mindedly let the oil get too hot before throwing in the frozen veggies, I bless my glasses.
I had 420/20 vision in both eyes, well beyond legally blind. Through my vision plan at work, I went to TLC for $1800 per eye. In my research I had determined that (generally) cheap != good. The $1800 per eye covered all optometrist visits, the initial surgery, most medications (largely eyedrops), and any needed followup treatments. I had both eyes done at the same time, and they offered me a valium...which relaxed me quite nicely. The surgery went well, but almost everything that could go wrong after that did. The tissue grew back almost completely (which was a new one to them), reverting me to about 380/20 vision. After several weeks I had a second surgery. Two days later I developed the "Sands of the Sahara", which causes serious fogging of the cornea and can cause real problems if not treated quickly...and I woke up with it on a Sunday morning. Now for the good part. I called TLC right after I woke up that morning, and they set me up with a optometrist half an hour later. Some eyedrops were all it took. I had pretty bad glare for three to four months. Bottom line: I'd do it again in a heartbeat. For all the problems, it's hard to overstate the pleasure and practicality of not needed glasses or contacts. TLC stayed on top of the problems...they took care of me. The pleasure of being able to see...always...and not becoming an invalid if my glasses break is priceless. Check up on the people doing the work, and go for it.
Mutant Freaks of Nature: "Frighteningly Addictive"
My junior-high-school metal shop teacher was a fairly hefty guy with huge hands and a battleaxe on the wall. One day a kid walked into the shop with some bureaucratic note and no glasses. He got about 5 feet from the door before the teacher grabbed him, picked him up, and slammed him against the lockers, and held him off the floor until they'd finished having a discussion about what the sign about not coming in without safety goggles meant.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
First of all you have to consider there are basically 2 kinds of corrective eye surgery:
. cgi t m
LASIK - that opens a flap of your cornea, zaps the cornea with the laser, and puts the flap back. Vision comes back instantly.
PRK - no flap needed, thus avoiding all problems related to it. The epithelium is removed, the cornea zapped, and a special protective contact lense is used for a couple days till epitheliums grows back again. Vision will not be 100% for about 2-3 weeks so it's done one eye each time.
PRK was the surgery of choice, but people got too much haze after surgery, and nobody knew why. LASIK was invented, and became a marketing dream. Fast recovery, no pain. It altered the structure of the cornea and some people when blind, cut the cornea nerves, eyes got dry, but so what ? Eye surgeons could earn thousands in a cirurgy that takes less than a minute, and could market it as being as simple as a hair cut. Easy to sell. Profit outweighs the risks.
Then recently they found out how to avoid haze in PRK (it seems that avoiding UV and taking vitamin C does the trick). So PRK is much safer than LASIK, but takes longer to recover.
Of course technology does import. I wouldn't take anything without wavefront with top-notch equipment. IANAD, but from what I saw the best equipments are the Visx S4 and the Ladarvision.
I suggest you read
http://www.asklasikdocs.com/cgi-local/forum/board
http://www.surgicaleyes.org/
http://www.allaboutvision.com/visionsurgery/prk.h
BTW, I am scheduled to have PRK in 2 weeks, in a Visx 4 + wavefront.
-
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
In 1999 two friends had Lasik done a week apart. Both went to experienced surgeons and both avoided the "budget" process. One is now permanently night-blind, and the other has permanent double-vision. Also, no one really knows what the long-term ramifications of the surgery are.
Unless you need coke-bottle lenses, just stick to glasses/contacts. They're you're fucking eyes, man. They're not worth fucking with for an unnecessary surgery. I mean, hell, would you risk your face falling off and leaving a bloody patch in exchange for the chance of a better-looking nose?
blog |
All the hype about being able to see perfectly on the way home from the proceedure was a bunch of bunk. They've got plastic shields over your eyes that you can see through anyway.
./'ers will be most interested in is that sitting in front of a monitor all day makes your recovery time a lot different from what they tell you. My eyes got very tired very quickly (and very dry, see above). I got physically tired as well.
My vision was pretty blurry for the first day or two. Dry eyes were a very big problem for the first week and then just a pain in the ass for the next 3 weeks. I went through a lot of eye drops. The drops that my surgeon gave me were actually making things worse (my optometrist had a fit when he saw them, had me switch to simple sterile saline instead.)
Planning on going on vacation soon after the surgery? You'll be sitting beside the pool instead of in it for the first 30 days same goes for any other swimming (infection risk).
The part they dont tell you abou that
Like many patients I had my vision slightly over corrected in one eye and slightly undercorrected in the other. This is a common technique for younger patients to help stave off the need for reading glasses later (almost everyone needs them eventually). My problem was that I was REALLY farsighted in one eye and slighly near sighted in the other. After surgery my nearsighted eye was now ever so slightly farsighted and vice versa. This confused the out of my brain. Headaches, blurry vision and just plain fatigue! It took 2 weeks to get used to my new eyes, literally.
If your surgeon suggests this kind of correction, consider it but talk to them about not switching up things on your eyes like mine did if possible.
"Get breast implants. Then you won't need a girlfriend ;)"
Then he'll end up as someone's elses girlfriend.
The benefits were:
1. no flap is cut, so no problems that are typically associated with the flap (i.e. halos at night, double-vision, etc.). apparently most of the risks associated with lasik are a result of the flap.
2. slightly better precision than with lasik
The disadvantages were:
1. the most painful 3 days of my life (first 1.5 days felt like alcohol burning my eyes, second 1.5 days felt like sand paper on my eyes).
2. took 1 week to get decent vision, i.e. better than 20/30. after 2 weeks i was 20/20.
3. dry eyes for over a year - it's been almost 2 years, and i still add lubricant eye drops a few times a week.
4. during the initial healing process, one of my healing contacts came out (this is what holds the epithelium in place until it heals), so my left eye was a lot slower in healing. i didn't realize how much slower, and probably exposed it to too much uv too soon (i live in hawaii, surf, beach, etc.). this has caused a little more haze than is normal in my left eye, and my vision isn't quite as good in that eye, but still good enough that i am more than satisfied.
5) a little more sensitive to bright light than i used to be (this has gotten better over time).
My overall feeling:
I wore glasses since i was 3 years old, first learned about corrective eye surgery when i was ~ 16, and finally got it done when i was 24. for me, this was the best decision i have ever made. now i can wear real sunglasses (like i said, living in hawaii), go surfing and see other peoples' faces, see everything when i play sports and not have to worry about damaging my $400 glasses, and don't get bothered by glasses constanly being on my face.
It's a big decision, so make sure you weigh the plusses and minuses. also, be sure to go to a doctor that only does corrective eye surgery, and one who has done at least 3000 procedures. ask around. you'd be surprised how many friends of your who you never knew wore glasses had the procedure done a few years ago.
I can speak as a physician and lifetime astigmatic. Several points to consider:
1. How old are you? Vision changes as does the geometry of the eyeball. A correction at age 20 may not be accurate at age 40. OTOH, the cornea at age 40 is less flexible and may not respond to sculpting as well.
2. How severe is the refractive error? The more of the cornea which is removed, the steeper are the edges, and the more halos and other refractive problems are seen.
3. Have a proper evaluation. Not everyone can have LASIK and not everyone should. The thicknes of the cornea at the site of treatment is critical, and varies between patients.
4. See an experienced ophthalmologist, but not one who runs a mill. Avoid those who advertise "Free LASIK Screening" or who own their own machines. Ask your ophthalomogist or optometrist who he used/would use.
Personally, I depend or my eyes and I would never do anything the least bit risky which would jeopardize my career. One dictum in medicine is "never be the first to do anything." I wouldn't do it unless or until there is solid multi-center 15 year experience. I am concerned that, in a few years, we will be seeing delayed problems in these patients.
I seem to remember that NED FLANDERS went blind from laser eye surgery, but I can't find the episode summary for it. It was the same episode when (the adult) Rod and Todd turned out gay.
Best Buy can have you arrested
lost my mod points last night or i would have.
I don't need sugery, i have perfect vision you insensative clod.
There are many more unsatisfactory operations than you know about. My Lasik was 4 years ago - the beginning of SEVEN surguries. I still see multiple images with my left eye, but they are closely grouped and managable - but I've learned to completely ignore my right eye. I see 4 distinct, but overlapping images of everything I look at with it, but only the lower left one is really there.
This was from a highly respected opthomologist in my area, not some strip-mall, rip-off artist. My doctor is still trying to help me, with another attempt scheduled later this year. But I can no longer see the stars - or even read highway signs. Makes it pretty rough when you are a traveling consultant...
Also note that when it works it only returns your CURRENT vision to 20/20 - you're eyes will continue to degenerate and you'll need those glasses again in a few years.
Would that I had the opportunity to start again I would save the money for something else.
"Straddling the sword of technology..."
I had mine done about 10 years ago, (First lasik Doc in Canada, blah, blah) That's probably part of your problem right there - you were one of the first guinea pigs. LASIK technology has obviously made some advancements since you had it done ten years ago, as well as expertise of the doctors.
If you have to ask, you'll never know.
This was absolutely the best money I ever spent. I don't know what my vision was before, but it was bad enough that I couldn't drive without glasses. I always found glasses really annoying and didn't want to deal with contacts. After LASIK surgery my vision was 20/15 and has stayed that way and that was several years ago. I know at least 8-9 people at work that had it done and everyone has had a good experience. Some of them had really bad eyesight too, at least compared to me. My eyes were done by Dr Boothe who is one of the best around here. There are definitely cheaper places, but who would shop based on price for something like this? I currently have no vision problems (starbursts, rings, etc) in either night or day.
I'm short-sighted, have been for 15 years (I'm 34 now). I'm only slightly short-sighted, i.e. -2.50 and -2.25 but I also wear contacts, particularly when I'm going out to bars and clubs as it just gives me more confidence.
:)
I've never been tempted by laser eye surgery as you can see the slits in people's eyes close up. Although you'll probably only notice if it's your partner or lover, unless you make a habit of staring into peoples eyes close up. It's also not permanent and I didn't fancy going back every few years to have cut after cut.
My own short-sightedness is due to computer use, from sitting in front of TVs on a Spectrum through to monitors all day long. My eyesight is never going to stop deteriorating whilst I'm so heavily involved with computers so I just accept that it's easier to change my glasses every 2/3 years than it is to go and get my eyes slashed every 5 or 10 years.
My $0.02 anyhow...
Disclaimer: I've done database/web consulting for an opthamlogist here in Los Angeles who has a lot of experience but only does a low volume of patients.
I can tell you that you DO want someone who has done many procedures. You DON'T want one who runs the newspaper ad for $499/eye and does 50 operations a day just like you don't want someone to whip you up a piece of perl script that they haven't tested a few times and put it live on your server.
Check out the web site http://www.la-sight.com/ There is a really good volume of self-education information on there as well as flash stuff that illustrates how the eye works, how the procedure works, etc. Obviously the site belongs to the Dr., but you'll find this one pretty balanced in how everything is presented.
Never looked back (pardon the pun).
An hour after, with my wife driving me home, I could read billboards and license plates...
The next day I drove myself back for the one day checkup.
I couldn't stand wearing contacts, so this has been just absolutely incredible... peripheral vision, doing yardwork in the summer without having glasses sliding off my face from the sweat, being able to see the clock when I wake in the middle of the night... It's all you think it will be and more.
I swear, I was hesitant, but my wife knew how much I hated wearing glasses and we made a deal. It's just too bad I waited so long.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Don't worry about reading computer monitor's either. I've had it for 3 years now, and I never get tired of screens.
Just note: even though Lasik will get rid of the blur-world, one day you will probably need readers. But for Myopia, it works great.
Open Source Sushi
Unfortunately for those with multiple problems. I wouldn't recommend it. Cataracts, detached retina (repaired), lazy eye and myopia is a bad combination. Throw in getting older, and...oh well.
It amazes just how far young people will go in their drive to acheive higher social status and improve their reproductive prospects.
Cutting open your eyes just to improve your chances of mating? Well, hell, I wore contacts when I was younger. Guess I was just as stupid...
And it is not just Americans. The same drives for social status, etc., is universal throughout humanity. I was watching a documentary on African women and their status in their societies. It showed a couple sitting in their front yard discussing their living situation. The man was telling the interviewer about his small plot of real estate from which he made his living and on which his house sat.
THe woman responded saying that "No, this is not real estate, this is not property. YOu could not call it that at all". Meaning that the land was so small that it was of no real significance. You could see from the man's reaction that she had said this before, many times.
Of course, that interaction, that dynamic is just so universal in man-wife interaction. The woman pushes the man to obtain more and more wealth, much as a female animal will go through some instinctual routine that will in turn induce a certain behavior in her mate.
It amazes me how we fail to see how much of our behavior is really unconcious and is meant to enhance our social status and reproductive prospects and/or our prospects for having our children survive or enhance their mating prospects.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I've been concerned with the potential complications from laser eye surgery, combined with the long-term effects. The recovery period seems to have non-trivial potential complications regarding tissue thickness, misalignment of the flap, problems with eye pressure (don't sneeze!), and the usual possibility of infection in the incision -- varying by procedure.
Long term, I have to think about the fact that I'm a relative young'un in my 30's, and will have to deal with continuing changes to my eyes for several decades. In this context, the loss of tissue thickness associated with laser re-shaping of the cornea may limit future correction. I'd hate to have it done once or twice, only to come back in my 60's and be told that I could not have further correction because the corneal tissue was too thin. Sure the technology will improve by then, but you'll be carrying around the results of today's technology. I.e., think about the people who had RK done a decade ago, and have to live with hard-to-correct starburst patterns and weakening of the eye structure that limits further correction.
Recently I've been doing a lot of reading about intracoroneal rings (ICRs) and intracoroneal ring segments (ICRS). These are implants around the edge of the coronea that function by squeezing or flattening the surface. (Imagine a contact lense with no middle.) The company that initially brought these to market (KeraVision Inc.) seems to have died, but these guys at Addition Technologies seem to have picked up the ball and market them as INTACS. More info here, of course.
There seem to be several compelling advantages of this technology:
However, these are currently only approved for nearsightedness (myopia) of 1 to about 4 diopters, and no more than 1 diopter of astigmatism. In fact, a few early trials noted some minor induced astigmatism, but that seems to have been solved. My correction is purely astigmatism, for which there have been several investigational studies using segments of differing thicknesses and/or short-arc segments. But no approved procedure for astigmatism-only in the US. It looks as if I'll have to travel abroad for this procedure, or wait another few years for the FDA to get off its plodding ass and approve this.
Anyone who can share experiences re INTACS/ICRS in general? Regarding astigmatism in particular? Anyone know of a reputable doctor outside of the US (I've collected names of a few in the UK and FR) that performs advanced procedure such as this? Otherw than my astigmatism issue, this looks like a damn fine alternative to laser surgery for those with nearsightedness.
-Jon
I think not...(*poof*)
I shoot NRA Highpower, thats a rifle competition. I had the good luck to be squaded with a Marine Marksmanship Unit shooter a few years ago. He'd had laser surgery on his eyes a month previously and was very unhappy. He was having a lot of problems seeing the targets clearly and his scores had droped, if he'd had the surgery earlier they would of droped him from the team and as it was he would have to leave at the end of the season. This is an example of speialized activites that surgery may impact, he was happy with it on a day to day bases but for shooting at distance he was ruined.
I've LASIK done twice by TLC and it has been well worth it. I was virtually blind before (prescription was 8+ and I had to special order my contacts). After my first surgery my eyesight was 20/10. After my eyes healed it wasn't quite so good (20/30 or so) so I had an enhancement surgery. Then once that healed I have about 20/25. I have the weakest prescription available which I use ocassionally when I just want everything a little clearer (like driving at night). Nowadays they have the Wave stuff which maps your eye - they didn't have when I got mine done.
//m
I have perfect vision and went to the school after her visit for my first eye checkup. I couldn't read for hours after having my eyes dialated and can now say if I lived with what I experienced that day, I would accept even a partial improvement in vision. I couldn't even read the form I had to fill out!
The worst part of the whole corrective eye surgery industry is the commercialization. I hate the stupid ads on the radio that make it sound like you are having a radio installed in your car. The Cal school of optometry was not like that, it was very professional which I liked.
I haven't read Beck's book, though I've heard him on the radio and read just about all the other books from that disastrous climbing day on Everest's summit, up in what's called The Death Zone for very good reasons. So much was disorganized and broken about their processes, too many people on the mountain, not enough oxygen tanks, not enough communications radios, bad communications between climbing teams, confusion about who was placing ropes when, all at an altitude that humans weren't meant to live at with extremely cold temperatures and high winds. If you're planning to do that a lot, then yeah, eye surgery may not be a good choice for you, but neither are contacts or glasses - consider getting gills installed.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"retain the ability to read printed material closer than arms length"
20/20 should be able to focus perfectly and read text from over twice your arms length and down to about 4 inches from your nose. I don't understand from your post what myopic eyesight improves. Can you focus closer than 4 inches? Kind of like Macro mode on a camera lense?
My dad, my brother and I all had lasik two years ago. I even have the video of my procedure (MPEG-4 video, 35MB) online.
No complaints, corrected to 20/20, no night-vision problems. I'm a happy camper!
(I'm 27 -- 25 when it was done, my prescription was -1.75 and -2.25, only slight astigmatism)
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
I had it done in July 2001 by a local and well respected surgeon. 4 years later, I'm still enjoying the starbursts and halos at night, the cronic tired eye, the joys of eyedrops every day, and the fear that each morning I'll again feel that wonderful sensation when my eyelid sticks to my eye and tears the epithelium off. The full story is at the link below. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t= 1618&highlight=lasik
Think twice, and get several tests.
Here are 2 additional sites to check (in case they haven't been mentioned before)
http://www.surgicaleyes.org
http://www.lasikdisaster.com
I know four people that have gotten it done - 1 is an immediate relative and the other 3 are close friends. None of them had any problems with it, and it went flawlessly. They couldn't have been more happy with the results... one of them started crying when she woke up the next morning and could see the clock clearly without her glasses. However, one of them told me about a friend of hers who tried to get it done. She wasn't so lucky. The result of her operation was making her legally blind - drastically harming instead of improving her eyesight. The reason this happened is that she didn't look into the doctor before going to him... Moral of the story: DO YOUR RESEARCH before you let something shoot lasers into your eyeballs.
you insensitive clo...
oh, wait. I guess I'm the insensitive clod.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I had bad astygmatism. 20/400 or worse in both eyes. now i have 20/15 and 20/20 in left/right respectively. I'm a total pussy and was terrified of the 'pain'. It's more surreal than anything, and actually some of it kind of tickled. i equate it to when a nice warm breeze catches the 'corner of your eye' and it feels good. it felt kinda like that. it's just so scary and you psyche yourself out. literally the only part that 'hurt' (to use the term losely) was pulling the tape off my face where it pulled my cheek hair! the whole proceedure took like 20 minutes and you can see right afterwards. it's stellar. i paid $1600 for it here in bellevue, washington. that included meds, visits, 1 year warranty, punctal plugs (get them!). i also financed it so my payments are $40/month, 0% interest for 12 months, but i've been paying like $200 just to get it done with.
Why any geek who's ever read the Risks list, programmed anything, or managed a network would allow a COMPUTER-controlled LASER to get anywhere near their eyes is beyond me...
Let's look at the risks:
1) LASER goes haywire for whatever reason... Ummm, it's burning my eye away... I can see now... but might not be able to see after that. Don't believe me, Google around for the malfunctions that small programming errors cause with radiation for patients getting therapy... Operator error too...
2) Power goes out... Does the LASER have a triple redundant power supply complete with 100% online backup? How do those redundant runs come in? Three different conduits? One Conduit? Two Conduits? When were the batteries last tested? What load are they running at? How many surges have they prevented?
3) Where's the power controls? In some open panel out in the hall? On the wall for someone to bump into with their ass?
4) They *CUT* a flap off of your cornea and *BURN* the spot underneath... Ummm, no thanks. I do all I can to keep knives and hot things AWAY from my eyes...
5) I have two eyes... I get to see sunsets, pretty women, and a zillion other things every day with them... If something goes wrong, I don't get to see all that. And it's just not worth it to me when I can either get contacts or glasses... both of which are relatively risk free in comparison to the beam...
6) Even the best of Dr's fuck up. Shit happens. But I'm not letting it happen to my eyes.
7) If you have big pupils and the area they reshape, ahem, burn, is smaller than your pupils when fully dialated, you see halos... Fuck that. I can get halos from a $3 hit, and they go away in a few hours... But the fucked up surgery? You might have em for the rest of your life...
8) It's controlled by a COMPUTER. Wanna bet that the guy programming it is just like someone you know? What if he accidently forgot some "mundane detail"? Sorry, I'm not losing my eyesight because they didn't test enough, or regression test enough, or "that's not supposed to happen" occurs...
9) What's the OS running it? If it says "Welcome to Microsoft" I'm running out into the street screaming... Even Linux I wouldn't trust to this task (and I love my lil' penguin).
For $4000 or so I can get a lot of contacts...and glasses...
I know a guy who was all ready to go for the lasik, and he asked the doctor if there's any side effects. The doctor said "no... oh, yes, there is one. You cannot go scuba diving, because of the changes in pressure". Poor guy had to trash the whole plan, because he wants to be a scuba instructor.
Music speeds up when you yawn, but does not change pitch.
Instead of LASIK, you could also go with Photorefractive keratectomy. This is a proceedure with similar results (for a smaller subset of problems). Rather slicing a flap out of the cornea, it etches small lines in the cornea which cause it to reshape. There is a slower recovery time, but the main advantage over LASIK is that it does not siginificantly weaken the cornea (and is accepted by the military, police departments, etc.)
Hi Slashdot,
I drive up once in a while to Lake Bigpond in central Ontario to fish. Now the fish seem to be around the west side in the mornings, except the days I fish there. I suspect when it rains, the fish swim to the north part of the lake.
I also tire out my legs easily waiting several hours for the fish, I've tried cross-legged, stretch out straight, and even lying on my back in the boat. After 4 hours it becomes unbearable. Has anyone experienced this before?
I'd appreciate if the fellow geeks could find a solution.
PS, sometimes when I wear my socks, I get a read sock on one foot and blue on the other. Funny I remember buying a pair of both-blue and both-red. This has happened to both pairs.
Does the slashdot crowd have something to say?
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Any chance you feel sorry for me and want to give me a gmail invite?
=)
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
Visit www.surgicaleyes.com
Read through the site BEFORE you have the operation. 80% of the people are generally happy with the result, 20% are not, 5% have real problems. Know the factors BEFORE the operation. What is your pupil size and why would you care? Do you have dry eyes? What is your prescription, and how does this relate to potential starbursts, halos, etc. If you can't answer these, then I would suggest NOT having the operation until you do. Know the downsides.
Unfortunately if you have problems, even though only 5% of the people have them, it is 100% for you.
I had mine in 1999, technology has changed for the better. I am one of the 5% that has real problems. Double vision, bad night vision, ghosts and echos due to irregular astigmastism, etc. Was with a local doctor who had the most experience (5k operations), who also lies as I found out later.
Get several opinions from several doctors. If you wait the technology is only going to get better and the chance of having a poor result will be less.
Be careful, be *very* careful.
I had my surgery going on 3 years ago. I was 20/400, with some astigmatism, am now 20/20 in the right eye and actually 20/15-3 in the left (meaning halfway between 20/20 and 20/15, slightly "better" then 20/20). In winter I don't have glasses that fog up, in summer I can wear sunglasses, when I snowboard I can wear regular goggles instead of prescription (expensive!) goggles. My sister went from 20/600 to 20/20, about four years ago, she'd get hit by a car if she walked down the street without her glasses. Both of us spend a lot of time in fron of the computer (she's a programmer, I'm an analyst), no problems at all. HIGHLY reccomend the surgery, but find a REPUTABLE place. Locally the Gimbel eye clinic, my doctor had done over 3000 surgeries when I had it done. I asked him how much medical malpractice insurance he carries, the answer was "unlimited", in fact about half the cost of the surgery was his insurance. This is not something to go cheap on.
I have bad vision. I'm talking super-awful -- like, 20/800, or something like that, in both eyes. When I wear glasses, they're hardcore sunlight-magnifying, bug-killing, far-side-of-the-moon-observing bad boys. So, perhaps it makes me a little more reluctant than most to subject my eyes to a risky procedure -- yet, I would love to be able to see unassisted.
My solution? Extended wear contacts. It's virtually like having the surgery, only with far less risk, and the only "cost" is changing them every 30 days. You sleep in 'em, they let in enough oxygen to keep your eye perfectly healthy, and they rock.
And it lets me wait at my leisure for laser surgery to improve even further while benefiting from -almost- all of the positives of surgery.
No, I am not a lobbyist for the contact lens industry.
I have always had really bad vision and have been considering this procedure. A friend of mine had it done and is very pleased. However, he did lose the ability to focus on objects very close so he still needs reading glasses.
As we get older, our eye lenses become less flexible. At some point just about everyone needs reading glasses or bifocals because their eye muscles simply are not strong enough to bend lenses in their eyes anymore. So depending on your age this may not matter. Also my friend was in his forties at the time of his surgery so he was almost at that point already.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
I had 20/800 vision prior and I have 20/25 now. Find a doctor or group with the very latest machine technology and with a lot of experience. The machine is 90% so make sure it has the latest upgrades. Some individual doctors can not afford to upgrade their machines, so make sure the one you pick has. Also, I would not do it if your corneal thickness is borderline. There are a lot of horror stories on the Internet, but the percentage of problems is still very low and the ones who had problems are the most vocal. Also, be very sure to attend you follow up exams and to use the eye drops correctly. Many problems are related to post surgery related issues.
I started wearing glasses in the second grade, and my prescription got progressively worse over time. Take some frames with clear lenses in them, smear some Vaseline on the outside, and try them on. That's what my vision was like right before the surgery. It was something ridiculous like 20/800 in the left eye and 20/900 in the right.
The whole prodecure only took about fifteen minutes, with about 90 seconds of that (per eye) actually getting zapped by the laser. It makes a loud, snapping kind of sound and there's an unpleasant smell from some kind of gas burning. They give you a valium and some anesthetic eye drops beforehand. The only part I'd characterize as even mildly uncomfortable was when he used the microkeratome to cut my cornea, creating the flap that they move out of the way before the acutal laser re-shaping. There's a slight vacuum that immobilizies your eyeball during this part, and the upward pull was a little disconcerting. I should also mention that you've got a speculum inserted, spreading your eyelids to prevent you from blinking. No pain or discomfort from that, and the laser itself is also painless.
He used some tiny little sponges on a stick to staunch the slight bleeding from the corneal flaps, then he taped some clear plastic shields over each eye. When I got off the table, my eyes were tearing up quite a bit, but I could read the analog clock on the other side of the room. WOW.
On the ride home (with someone else driving), the light was hurting my eyes a bit, but I was ignoring it, thrilled that I could actually read the license plates on the other cars.
Per their recommendations, I took some Tylenol PM and went to sleep. This is mainly to give your eyes a rest. I work up at 2 am and the red LED's on my alarm clock were just...razor sharp. I didn't sleep the rest of the night, just wandered around looking at things, goofy as that sounds.
Over the next few months, my vision would be ultra sharp in the morning, then get a bit blurry towards the end of the day. I mentioned this to the doc on follow up visits, and evidently that's common with a lot of people. It takes time for your eyes to adjust.
Now, I could not be happier. That late-day eye tiredness is long-gone, and I have no "haloing", hyper-photosensitivity, or any other complaints. I can swim and not squint at everything, and do any activity without worrying about losing a lens. People who've never needed vision correction take all this for granted.
Do it. There's nothing like dumping the glasses in the goodwill box and chucking the contact lenses and their assorted supplies into the trash. I even have the whole procedure on video, I've shown it to a lot of people who were considering LASIK and wanted to know what to expect.
I have near perfect vision, but my wife...
she had hers done at a place called Key Whitmann in Dallas. She says it was the best thing she has done. Only a couple of follow-ups were necessary, and she was seeing perfectly as I drove her home. My neighbor went to one of the guys that advertises low prices on the radio, he is now blind in his left eye. My wifes surgery was twice as expensive as his, but I think the higher price was worth it.
Win if you can... Lose if you must... But always CHEAT!
I was in a similar situation. I came into a sizeable lump of cash in 1997 and spent the better part of a year reading up on the then new "Lasik" procedure. In February of 1998 I spoke with a number of professionals including my current doctors and local specialists in laser procedures and in March of 1998 decided to go for it.
I would do it again in an instant - but I would still do the same amount of study that I did before. IMHO far too many people don't do the required research before this kind of thing and that's where a lot of the problems can come from.
The surgeon I chose was at the Cleveland Clinic and had taken part in the clinical trials for Lasik before it was an approved procedure. At the time he had more experience than any other surgeon I could find without major travel and he was very upfront about the possible downsides and my own potential for success with the surgury. He did not try to sell me on anything just gave me as much of his time as I wanted and honest, sometimes even frighteningly so, answers.
Not all of the professionals I spoke with were the same. Some were very much in the "sell" mode and made me feel rushed as though they wanted me to decide right then and there. The doctor I eventually went with actually refused to let me make a decision on the spot and insisted that I take my time and think it over first. He also warned me ahead of time that due to the size of my pupils I may not be the best candidate and could still require glasses afterward.
I'll also add that I'm very squeemish about my eyes. I've worn glasses since 3rd grade and in high school flirted briefly with contacts. But I had major problems getting contacts in and out and when they were in found them to be a constant irritant I could not ignore...and that was with soft lenses. When my stigmatism got worse and I had to switch to hard lenses I gave them up within 6 months, wearing them was less plesant than dumping handfuls of beach sand into my eyes.
When I came in for the pre-op for my surgury the day before the doctor gave me a prescription for a mild sedative due to my anxiety over having them zap my eyes while I was awake. Also durring the entire pre-op the staff was equally curteous, friendly and upfront as the doctor himself. Nothing felt rushed but I was never kept waiting either, any questions were answered very patiently and I was not allowed to leave until they were sure that all of my questions were answered.
The day of the surgury I took the sedative and was driven to the hospital. You can't drive yourself home since afterall they'll be zapping your eyes so this is necessary even if you don't take the sedative. I know some people who did drive themselves against doctors orders and frankly I can't imagine how they did it - but my eyes are always extremely sensitive to light and were even more so immediately after the surgury.
The surgury itself took less than 15 minutes. The operating room was small and clean, the laser machine was quite large and the doctor was already seated at the controls waiting for me. Again he took time to make sure I didn't have any final questions and that I was sure I wanted to go though with the procedure. There were also 3 or 4 assistants and nurses standing by to assist.
There is some mild discomfort durring the procedure but frankly it was less uncomfortable than the hard contacts I wore. It was somewhat unnerving to be awake but the doctor was very reassuring thought the entire procedure and explained what he was doing as it happened.
The most uncomfortable part is where they make the cut to fold back the flap - and that is mainly because the pressure of the device they uses causes your eye to black out so all you see is black with some colored specks which is a little frightening - but the doctor again was reassuring and explained what would happen which made it very easy to take.
The laser zapping took only seconds and there is a slight smell like burning hair when it happens. Aftertha
--- Juggle juggle@hitesman.com
My Father is in his mid 60's and has lasik(sp?) done about a year ago. He has said on many occasions that it made a world of difference for him and that he wished he had done it sooner. For the past 30 years i hardly ever saw my father not wearing glasses, but now he only wears them to read if at all.
So, in short, it was a great thing for him and he has had no problems what so ever.
I got Lasik done seven months ago, and it turned out great. I have 20/15 vision now. Its true that you loose some night vision, but for me its not that bad. I still drive at night just fine.
Also, the FBI says that the Lasik is _not_ disqualifying. Good thing, too, because I couldn't apply there since my uncorrected vision was REALLY bad (I couldn't even see the big 'E' on the chart!)
Overall, even though it turned out great for me, its still a huge risk. I'd say don't do it unless you're in a position like me and you _absolutely have to_, like if a potential career depends on it.
after recently getting glasses I started asking around if anyone I knew had this done, or if any of their friends did. Surprisingly, or maybe not, I only found one person. I didn't ask around a lot, as I wasn't seriously considering it since I had only just got my first pair of glasses ever, and my eyes may still change more. Anyways, this person said night vision was definitely reduced, but what I found interesting was they said sometimes it feels like he's got sand in his eyes.
I got my eyes done last summer and I have absolutely no regrets. My eyes weren't awful (-2.75), but having 20/15 vision in both eyes is certainly a lot better. No more glasses flying when I tumble (I'm a gymnast), nore more glasses/contacts while swimming, no more blurry glasses in the rain, no more stepped on glasses during a nap etc etc etc.
It's a beautiful thing.
Make sure you get a good (experienced) doctor and make sure you take the valium if they offer it.
Udachi
-Ben
Here's what I posted to one of the gun boards I'm on: I had it done in Harrisonburg, Va. I was supposedly an excellent candidate. It was the most comfortable surgery, and weirdest, I've ever had done. After a few checkup visits for measuring and whatnot, I came in for what seemed like 5 minutes, and they did both eyes. I walked out with better vision than when I walked in. The next day, my vision was better than 20/20 in both eyes. It's been roughly 6 months I think, and as it healed, that sharpness has been lost a little. I don't see as well as I did with glasses or contacts (I had better than 20/20 when corrected) but I'm WELL within the legal limit to drive, and I can do groundhog checks at home without throwin' on any specs. Naturally, the updated the process like a week after I got it. Argh. I recommend it if you can afford it. Though, reading the list of things that can go wrong was kind of frightening..... The procedure is basically this... Your eyeball is gently sunctioned to pull it a bit out of the socket and stretch it out (Much like you might pinch up some skin to drive a spike through it). "Gently" means that you feel like your eyeball is getting pulled completely out of your head and your vision goes completely black. Then, a fun-filled little spinning blade comes in from the side and cuts the front of your eye, almost COMPLETELY cutting off the front of it. A little hinge is left there. Then that flap that was created is flipped back, and the laser does its thing. The flap goes back into place, and you leave. Now, the possible catastrophy that most troubled me was them accidentally cutting all the way through, and not leaving a flap. Basically slicing a contact-lens-like piece out of your eye. And then this piece falls on the ground and they lose it. And then you have no lens on the front of your eye and are fuX0red! But yeah, it's interesting. Smile The doctor really only seems to be involved in the measuring of your eye and the subscription. When they rent the machine (Most places rent it for a day or two and do as many patients as possible in a marathon-run), they also rent the guy who knows how to use it. He seemed to be doing most of the work. There actually wasn't much manipulation by anyone's hands... The machine does all the work. I wouldn't get too hung up on the doctor that's doing it. Shop around. Smile
With Lasik, expect fluctuation for a year after though. I was happy that I had RK on one eye, since it tended to be more stable. I couldn't use the computer otherwise...
I'm totally against laser eye surgery. My father had it, and they messed up. He got infected, and, to make a long story short, he had to go through SIX different eye surgeries and now has to wear contacts to see. Doesn't sound too great.
- Code Dark
The one drawback to the lasik that I had years ago is:
My pupils dilate bigger than the incision that they made and I see halos around lights at night. So make sure you have them check the max dilation of your pupils first (though I'd imagine that they check more thoroughly now than they did then.)
Other than that, 20/15 rocks.
Always ask the doctor that is doing the procedure, not how many they have done but what % of their patients required a second corrective surgery.
That's how you know how good they are...
1) I have only one set of eyes. I don't like the risk.
2) I fear macular degeneration, a common cause of blindness in older people. A large risk factor for it is lifetime UV exposure. My glasses have a UV blocking coating.
3) I'm old enough to need glasses for reading anyway.
4) I've been wearing glasses my whole life. I'm used to them.
5) The glasses have, on a couple of occaisions, prevented sharp objects from going into my eye.
You can judge for your self if it is worth the risk. I had a successful surgery. However, looking back I would offer the following advice.
1) RELAX! Do what ever it takes to be as relaxed as possible before and during the surgery. Take meds - take meditation - do something. Twitching and fighting the operation during the proceedure is very bad.
2) Find a Doctor you personally feel good about. You should know within 5 minutes of talking to them if they are a person you are willing to trust.
3) Have reasonable expectations. Before suregery I could not shave without my glasses - now, I can see about 98% as well as I did with my best prescription. It is not perfect. However, now I get to go scuba diving and surf.
You must not have done very much reading if you think "cornea" is spelled "coronea."
What will your eye-sight be like as you age?
What about when your eyes go and as most adults - need reading glasses? What happens then?
The only know thing right now is glasses work and have worked for hundreds of years.
In 50 years - society will know if laser eye surgery does well as you age. Right now, they have no track record to go on. I will not take that chance.
I had my eyes zapped in 98, and have that condition you mention where my pupil expands bigger than the surgery area. As expected, I had blurry night vision for a while longer than average, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. I was hesitant to drive at night for about 5 days after the procedure, and still had very slight halos for nearly 6 months. If I had halos for a year, I would still get it done. It's so damn worth it, especially hunting, scuba diving, kayaking, marial arts, or whatever people are into. Never worrying about contacts getting messed up, glasses broken, etc. Just awesome.
J
ICRS is the next big thing, and it will probably replace LASIK quickly. However, it is not FDA approved yet, so it is not generally available. If you have the time, wait for it.
I had enhanced LASIC performed about 3 years ago. It was some of the best money ever spent. The only thing is that I do have to wear sunglasses when even in moderate sunlight. Most people that I have spoken with say the same--that your eyes will be more light sensitive than they were before.
No Not Again! Its whats for dinner.
One of the people I work with and one of our investors has had corrective laser surgery -- two in total. Both of them had great experiences, but then again that's only two people. If it was my turn, I would definately do a lot of Googling and other good research, find some of the best doctors, and try to find those doctors by word-of-mouth rather than in a directory of sorts. Just my own opinion in the mix.
I work with this crazy guy who has a patch. Turns out it was laser surgery. Good luck with yours!
SHUT UP
Not sure where you can get the side of the people who have been completely pleased with their surgery, but Clark Howard (who has a nationally syndicated consumer-affairs talk show) recommends you read about what to expect (and some of the possible complications) of laser eye surgery at SurgicalEyes.com.
In retrospect, I would never, ever recommend it to anyone. I started off at -5.5 (which is pretty bad). I had no astigmatism, and no other problems. I had been wearing contacts for years without any problems and didn't really mind them that much, but just thought that it'd be nice not to need them.
The surgery went well. I walked out of the office, went to sleep, and woke up 3 hours later. I looked outside and could see perfectly - and I do mean PERFECTLY. I was ecstatic. For the first time in my life, I could see without those lenses. This was as good as my vision would get.
For 3 months after this, I had massive fluctuations in my vision. Some days I'd wake up seeing fine, other days I'd have weird problems including double vision, halos, astigmatism, etc (and that's not even including the night vision problems). After those 3 months, my vision finally settled down to being under corrected at -1 with astigmatism (which changed every time they measured it). At this point, I basically figured that I had no choice but to go ahead and have the touch-up (since it was much harder to correct my vision with lenses now).
After 6 months, I had a touch-up. Following this operation, I had the same weird after effects for months, until my vision finally stabilized - into 20/20 vision. During the day. In good sunlight. When I'm not tired. All of a sudden I have dry eye problems which cause me huge problems at night, or when I'm tired. Problems I never had before. I have weird problems with blue lights. At night, I can focus on most things, but am unable to focus on blue LEDs or lights. Apparently this is a normal side effect of the surgery.
I would recommend that you visit http://www.lasikdisaster.com/ If you want some more information. The major problem that they don't tell you is this: 20/20 vision is NOT the same as perfect vision. You can have double vision, ghosting, night vision problems but still have 20/20 vision. As long as you can read that little line on the eye chart, you have 20/20 and are considered a success story of the surgery. You could have a double image and not be able to drive, or function properly and STILL BE A SUCCESS.
In addition to this, you can end up with eyes that are miscorrected (so you still have blurry vision) that are UNCORRECTABLE. If you have multi-axial astigmatism, or other weird issues you may NEVER be correctable to 20/20 with glasses, contacts or ANYTHING ELSE. Think about that. No matter how bad your eyes are now, at least they're correctable.
In short, I would never, ever, ever have the surgery knowing what I know now. I would also never ever recommend it to anyone. The risks are not worth the rewards. Notice they say that 95% or 98% or whatever reach 20/20 - but they never say how many have these weird complications - and outside studies estimate them as high as 25%. Doesn't sound so good now, does it?
Cemil.
Then in 20 years, you can enjoy your cheap plastic replacements.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Miraculous.
Air Force Pilot http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,1389
Astronaut http://www.nasajobs.nasa.gov/jobs/astronauts/aso/
You might want to consider searching through Medical Journals (e.g. through Medline) and find out what studies have been made on Lasik. Generally, the public can usually get access to it by visiting a local University or College which has access to it. Some articles are highly technical in nature, while others are more general. It should give you a good idea of the risks and benefits involved in the surgery.
... consider seeing another physician.
The articles are peer reviewed, so there might be bias, but I would be more confident reading this than a Lasik clinic's pamphlets/brochures. You might also want to consult government research eg FDA.
If you have the surgery, as the physician how many incidents they had . If they seem to dodge the question altogether, or say "none"
Got it, works great. No problems here. Mild halos with night driving, but not enough to bother me.
7 23/ap_en_mo/transformers_movie_1
BTW, if anyone's listening, Transformers is being made into a live action film, slated to open in 2006:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040
I live in upstate NY and a lot of people have been jumping the border because of the cheaper prices in Canada. Let me tell you something: PRICE ISN'T EVERYTHING! While my experience was mostly* positive, their level of post-op support was horrible. Whatever places you decide to look at, ask about their post-operation care. Do you see the surgeon for each of the post-op visits? If not, don't even ask any more questions, just walk out. In hindsight, I realized that some places, LASIK MD in particular, work on the premise of volume. Their primary goal is to get as many people in and out of their office as possible. *I had Zyoptix LASIK performed on both eyes just under a year ago. Both eyes were about 20/400 now. My right eye is about 20/15 now, but my left is hovering around a very fuzzy 20:50. Their quack optometrist kept on telling me to wait for it to heal. "It'll get better" he'd keep on saying. After 3 months, I started to request an 'adjustment' (covered under their 1-year warranty, which most places offer AFAIK), but I noticed an unusual amount of resistance. It was early, only 3 months after all, so I decided to be patient.
When a day you happen to know is Wednesday starts off by sounding like Sunday, there is something seriously wrong ...
Yep, they fell right out. I got the surgery a few years back and one day they just "PLOP" fell into my lap and I've been blind as a bat ever since.
;)
Oh, wait, how did I type this... nevermind.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
in addition to the awesomeness of having lasers shot into your eyes, it helps you to see better.
My vision was bad enough that I had to wear glasses or contacts all the time. I got Lasik in January of 2002. I can see better than I could before with contacts or glasses. My vision is now 20/15 in my left eye and 20/20 in my right eye, without sigmatism.
The experience of the procedure is very... interesting...
It was more than worth the money for me. It cost me about $2400.
I saw this post, and thought "Great, I've been wondering about this for a while". But on reading the comments, I am realizing that dozens of anecdotes (both for and against) don't really help me decide the matter. A google search will
What we really need is some pointers to objective, peer-reviewed quantitative research that lists the major complications and their incidence rate. Can anyone on Slashdot please provide such a reference?
No more scuba because of LASIK?
a si k+scuba&btnG=Google+Search
That's not true at all!
Your friend was misled and only needs to wait a few weeks after surgery before diving again.
If he'd just use Google, he'd get a second opinion.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=L
I'd been considering the same - only I also have "floaters" in both of my eyes, so it's more complex. I understand the new "Zyoptix" method is superior to whatever has been offered. It maps more of the real cornea, individually. In the recent past (and possibly present) some athletes have been using a similar procedure to better their eyes (baseball, etc). I agree with the others that recommend you find a good doctor, and check him/her out first... these are your eyes we're talking about ;-)
Regards...
1) I'm a big wuss and I'm rwally not sure I can lie there while someone slices my eye open and burns the stuff underneath, while I'm thinking " mm.. bacon"
I've had LASIK done about 4 years ago. My vision was roughly 4.25 diopters in my left eye and 3.75 diopters with some astigmatism in my left (not sure whether those measures are + or - but I was nearsighted) prior to the procedure. I now have slightly better than 20/20 vision. My general advice from a comfort standpoint is that if you are comfortable with glasses and have no compelling reason (such as athletics in my case) to need the procedure, you might not want to do it if it makes you uncomfortable. The risks are small but not negligible so if it makes you uncomfortable, that's a fine reason not to do it. On the other hand it is the best money I've ever spend and I'm glad every day I had it done. They do give you some relaxing druge before the procedure to calm anxious nerves.
2) with most normal procedures, if it goes wrong, then you're back where you used to be, with lasik, you could be horribly worse off
Highly unlikely you will be much worse off. A small fraction of 1% of patients actually end up with worse vision. As surgical procedures go, the success rates are actually quite good. The statistics are widely available on the web so don't take my word for it. However, I did a TON of research prior to my procedure and I'm married to a doctor, so I'm confident in my assertion.
3) I beleive that a massive percentage lose alot of night vision, you might not be able to legally drive at night for example
This is incorrect. LASIK does NOT normally impact night vision. You are confusing LASIK with other procedures such as radial keratotomies which do affect night vision. The only significant effect LASIK has is that you tend to get some "starbursting" around bright lights at night for a year or so after the procedure. The amount varies by person and usually goes away. In my case it wasn't bad and no longer is a problem. Some people are affected more strongly than others.
4) the eye is much more prone to infection
True, but only for a short time after the procedure. This is true of any surgical procedure.
5) the army and police won't let you join if you've had it, rather tellling I think
Not sure but I don't think this is as true as it once was.
LASIK surgery can have great benefits but it isn't for everyone. It will not prevent you from needing reading glasses when you get older and it isn't a cure-all without any risk. If it makes you uncomforable, that is reason enough to not do it. The chance of you having 20/20 or better vision is roughly 50% and the chance of you having 20/40 or better (good enough to drive without glasses legally) is close to 95-98%. Serious complications occur in less than 1% of cases. No one has ever gone blind as a result of this procedure. Your eyes are very dry afterwards so staring at a computer screen for long periods of time can be pretty uncomfortable for a while after the procedure, though this does get better in time.
I won't say it was a fun experience, but I'm glad I did it. Whether it is something to pursue depends on your risk tolerance and whether your lifestyle requires it. I'm an athlete so it really helps me. Your milage may vary. Research the heck out of it, pick a doctor that has done a TON of procedures (mine had done over 3000) and ask a lot of questions.
Just remember that if you get this surgery then you won't be able to go into space. It would kinda suck for you're eyeballs to explode :)
Seriously though, it is one of the requirements for becoming an astronaut. I wonder if this would affect low/sub orbital commercial flights?
jubei
One of my clients is a leader in the laser vision correction industry, and there is a new type of procedure called "custom LASIK" that is much better than the standard LASIK procedure.
Regular LASIK procedures use the same basic measurement techniques as you would get for eyeglasses. That means that your LASIK "prescription" would be the same as thousands of other people around the world.
Custom procedures use a wavelength of light to measure your eye, yielding results 25x more precise than a typical procedure. The results are truly individualized to you, and will maximize the potential you can achieve with vision correction. It basically provides much more "resolution" for the laser to work with when it goes to resculpt your cornea -- the difference is pretty dramatic.
There's a procedure called CustomVue from VISX that you can ask for. They use a "WaveScan" system to measure your eye, and make sure your doctor is using a S4-model laser to perform the procedure.
Is "custom" more expensive than a standard procedure? Of course. But how much are your eyes worth to you? Coupon-clipping should probably not be on the list of activities for someone looking at a LASIK procedure.
Of course, as with any technology, there are always going to be improvements down the road, new technologies and systems, but right now a custom procedure is the absolute best you can get for your eyes.
420/20 correctable isn't legally blind.
I'm over 600/20 in both eyes, and I'm not legally blind. Why? Because it's correctable.
uncorrectable bad vision is what makes you legally blind
I had it done and I'm perfectly happy. I was 20/20, 20/15, Though I think my 20/15 eye has drifted back a little bit. I don't need glasses anymore and thats the point.
You walk in with glasses, you walk out seeing 20/20. All the places "insure" the surgery so they'll do corrections for free if you drift into vision that would require correction.
I do have some of the halo thing. It's really not a big deal. It gets better as you go along. It's better to squint to kill a halo than squint to read a book.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
I had both eyes done a few years ago, when it cost $4k, by a respected local guy in Silicon Valley. I had previously worn hard, soft and disposable contacts for something like 12 years, followed by glasses for about two years. My vision was around 20/200, not terrible but bad enough that I couldn't drive or watch TV from six feet away without the lenses. No astigmatism. I was told my eyes were pretty much in the ideal range for correction.
The operation took about 45 seconds in total, and they gave me a tape of it. I could see IMMEDIATELY after the operation. Instantly. Recovery took about a day and a half, with minor pain similar to having dirty contacts. You can do it over a weekend.
Now my vision is 20/20; it was 20/15 for the first six months and then leveled off. No change over the last few years. Daylight vision is perfect. Night vision is not as good, and I do see halos around lights, but in my case these are exactly the same halos I had with contacts. I am a very nitpicky detail-obsessed computer geek, and am 100% satisfied with my results.
Best money I ever spent.
Ah hem. Excuse the title.
The most important thing you can do is keep your eyes wet with saline for quite some time after treatment. I did, and my vision is 20/20 even after 5 years and staring at my monitors 10+ hours a day. Keep saline by your desk. Get the little packets and keep them in your pocket. You'll be happy you did.
I have a programmer friend who did not hydrate and now has 'scratchy' eyes. Your doctor will tell you more, but TAKE HIM SERIOUSLY!
Congratulations, you're about to improve your quality of life like you wouldn't believe!
I had Lasik 5 years ago, at age 29. Was about -3 sphere in one eye, -3.5 sphere plus about -1.5 cylinder (astigmatism) in the other. Needed glasses or contacts to do most anything, and don't much like contacts.
My wife is an optometrist, does pre-op/post-op care for Lasik (but not the surgery itself -- you need an opthamologist for that), and had interned at a laser eye surgery place and seen it done lots of times. So I had lots of information. Not sure if I'd have done it otherwise.
We went with a doctor she'd worked with, who she knew was very good, and who was willing to cut me a friends-and-family discount. That said, you want the best doctor you can find, not the cheapest. Ask how many times he's done this particular surgery. You want an answer in the hundreds. (Yes, that's somewhat unfair to the young docs, who need to learn on someone -- but let it be someone else.)
Certain characteristics, like thin corneas, make you a poor candidate for the procedure, and increase the risk. Ask.
The Lasik made my right eye perfect, but left a bit (0.25) of residual astigmatism in my left. My "bad" eye is perfectly good for seeing small text on a TV across the room, just not perfect.
The day of the surgery was no fun. Slice slice zap zap then dark glasses. I recovered quickly, though, and was back to work in a couple of days.
Some people have more glare problems at night after the surgery. I don't.
Some people's eyes change over time. Mine haven't noticably. My wife's vision got a lot worse after pregnancy, partially undoing the effect of her Lasik. Some doctors will do free reenhancements.
Everyone gets more farsighted as they get old. Lasik won't fix that. I'm 35 with almost perfect vision, but when I'm about 40 I'll start needing reading glasses for close work. Sucks to get old, but it beats dying. (Some doctors will do monovision Lasik -- deliberately leaving one eye undercorrected so you can use one eye more for close work and the other for far -- but I started nearsighted in both eyes and they won't deliberately overshoot and make you farsighted.)
Overall it was well worth it for me. Send me an email if you need more info.
-- David Ripton
First, do not let them use a knife on your eyes. Traditional lasik uses a knife to cut a flap. This type of cut causes much more damage to the eye by cutting several layers. The place I went uses a femtosecond laser to cut a flap that is computer programmed to match your eye. This pretty much 100% avoids problems with the eye flap ripping off and such. It also helps the nerves in your eye heal faster, so your eye can inform your brain of dryness so your brain can turn on the tear ducts, reducing problems with dry eyes.
Secondly, in traditional lasik they would take a few measurements and use the laser to zap your eyes with the setting that is correct, on average. The newer machines (the call it "wavefront") use adaptive optics (per what is used on telescopes) to crate an an exact model of your eye and ablate a pattern that will give you optimal vision, the best your eyes are capable of.
I am happily glasses free, with no astigmatism, no problems with low light, no problems with dry eyes, and I am seeing 20/15 in both eyes.
So go for it, but be sure the doctor has experience, and is using the latest and greatest equipment!
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
I have to say I've been extremely happy with my Lasik surgery. I got glasses in 2nd grade and wore them for 6 or 7 years until I got contacts which I wore for another 7 or 8 years. My eyesight without corrective lenses was bad--I couldn't see the big "E" at the top of the eyechart (I think that makes it worse than 20/200)--but with contacts/glasses I could see 20/15. After surgery I now see 20/20 with my left eye and 20/15 with my right. The surgery is absolutely amazing. After sitting up on the operating table I could see the wall and people's faces. I could never see faces without my contacts in. In the next few days everything looked bigger for some reason (I am using more of my retina maybe?). I have some haloing with lights at night, but glasses and contacts add those effects too, so it's not like anything has become worse in that department. I feel perfectly comfortable driving at night. Basically I have nothing bad to say about the procedure.
:-)
So actually I've had 2 surgeries. The first was on both eyes. The left eye stuck at 20/20, but the right developed 1 diopeter (sp?) of astigmatism--about 20/25 or 20/30. That was annoying enough to me to have it touched-up ("enhanced" the doctors insist on calling it). I used TLC (which is national I think) and so the touch-up cost nothing extra. The payment was very nice: I paid one time, up front, and then every follow up, touch-up, or whatever (and there were a lot of followups) I just showed up and never had to worry about paying them again. It seemed so novel.
And for people who are scared of getting their eye cut open--I am the biggest wimp, and it really was nothing. I explain it to people this way: grab your forearm with your hand and squeeze-- that is what the suction-ring feels like on your eye. Pressure, but zero pain. The laser didn't hurt at all, and I was prepared for the smell (burning flesh--yum). It sounds so bad, but it really wasn't at all. The worst part for me was when the guy had to mark my eye with the surgical marker. For some reason it gave me the willies and I almost passed out. But the surgery was nothing. Seriously.
-David
There. Now go play some cool javascript games!
They'll be happy to correct your vision for free if your eyes go out of correction.
I don't know why anyone would opt for PRK unless they didn't have a think enough cornea to correct their vision.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
He had a very bad case of myopia since his early chilhood. Now he's got almost perfect vision with both eyes, and is VERY happy.
;-)
Caveats:
He had a two-three weeks recovery period. At the beginning (first week), the smallest amount of light caused him a splitting headache, and his vision was worse than before the operation (couldn't read the phone keypad even form a few inches away...), which was VERY disquieting. You may want to be on a quiet holliday, alone, during that period. Stock up on audiobooks
Also, he had BOTH eyes operated on during the same session. Each eye required about 20 minutes, during which you're strapped to a table, your eyes forced and blocked open, bathed in some kind of liquid, and a light is flashed into them. You can't move, you can't blink even though you HAVE to... He says that if he had to re-do it, he would go for one eye at a time: he was a nervous wreck by the end of the 40-minute session (20 minute is MUCH more bearable), and "blind" from BOTH eyes during the recovery period, which was a mighty drag.
Hope this helps
Olivier
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Nice shot!
I have a freind with a biology degree that put the FUD into me about it, so I'll share! He claims that part of the dislodged eye matter can get infected and into the blood stream. If this happens, your bodies white cells can counteract the infection, but a side effect is that they have an affinity for eye matter. From there, your body slowly eats your eyes away for you. You then don't have a problem seeing clearly, you just can't see at all. Isn't that tasty?
Using the Freedom of Speech while I still have it.
I've not had Lasik. A friend did, however. He had it done in Mexico. Apparently it costs about half as much there.
The last time I asked him how he felt about the results, he said everything was perfect.
However, he said that in Mexico, they don't give you any anaesthetic while they sear your cornea away. Instead of anaesthetic, a short, heavy-set middle-aged Mexican woman holds your hand.
Sorry, I accidently hit "submit".
:o(
Anyway, I went for a 6 month followup, things improved slightly. My left eye could read 20/40 on the chart, but things were very blurry. When I requested to see the surgeon again, the optometrist gently refused my request, Telling me I should come back in another 2 months. At this point, I was getting irritated but I figured "one last time". Before I went back though, I got a second opinion from a surgeon in the states. After running some tests, he told me the people in Canada overcompensated and that, as far as he could tell, it was easily fixable. So I went back 2 months later, looked at the chart and got the same results as last time (20/40, still blurry). I politely asked to schedule a time to see the surgeon. The optometrist citied their policy, saying that since I was 20/40 or better, I wasn't elegible for re-adjustment. I put my foot down and said it wasn't acceptable. What followed was a 10 minute conversation which almost escalated into a yelling argument. The optometrist relented somewhat and said that he'd discuss my case with the surgeon. 2 days later I got a phone call from the optometrist (still no surgeon!) saying I wasn't eligible for readjustment because my corneas were too thin!! The kicker here is that he couldn've told me this months prior and saved me 3 trips to Canada! Doh!
So there is my sad tale of woe. Fortunately, I don't require corrective lenses of any sort and I don't suffer from halos at night. But sometimes I suffer from annoying visual quirks because my eyes are so unbalanced.
I third that. Eyeglasses saved me from a bungee strap breaking.
With any sufficiently popular procedure, some things will go wrong for some people. Hell, there are probably people who have had hemmorhages, heart attacks, and strokes while having the procedure, but that doesn't reflect badly on the procedure; it's only a result of its popularity. Put enough people through it and something bad will happen to someone no matter what the procedure: even our beloved President apparently fainted while watching TV and eating a pretzel.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
It will neutralize the "glare" problems associated with Lasik. You can find cheapos at retailed as "fishing glasses"
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
My LASIK turned out wonderful! My vision is now perfect, absolutely no complications, no dry eye after the first week, no pain, no discomfort, just absolutely magnificent vision. I've had glasses and contact lenses in the past, but they just don't compare to this, for both convenience and quality of vision. My night vision does now include a tiny bit of haloing, but barely enough to be a minor annoyance.
Best $4000 I ever spent!
But I still wouldn't recommend it to my friends. It's all a matter or an individual's risk tolerence. I took the risk knowingly, and am VERY glad I did. But if a friend of mine took the same risk based upon my recommendation, and it turned out badly, I'd feel responsible. So, all I can say is it was the right choice for me, and I'm delighted with the outcome. Not every story I've heard from others has been as positive, though.
Best thing I ever did. I had "stigmatism" and "hipermetropia" (those are portuguese, dont know the exact translation). The process isn't painful at all because you have anestesia, but it's a bit uncomfortable because they put some kind of metal tool in your eye to keep it open, so you want to close your eyes but cant. I actually saw them test the laser before they performed the surgery... It shoots out a purple beam. You see the beam in it's whole like a fine line (not like those red presentation lasers where you only see the dot :P)
Anyway, after the surgery I developed a little bit of photophobia which is sensitivity to bright lights. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm a vampire... just when it's sunny outside I always have to wear sunglasses. The trade-off is that I now have near-perfect vision. No more glasses for me!
Btw, I've also noticed that after 3 hours sitting at the computer my eyes become tired, as opposed to before when I stayed at the computer for a lot longer and never experienced that effect.
You know, I don't have any kids, and I guess that leaves me sort of out of the loop with these things, because I had no idea that kids now must be vaccinated for chicken pox before being allowed into public school.
What the hell is wrong with people?! Is chicken pox -- as a child -- really so bad? When I was a kid parents used to hold "chicken pox parties." A kid in the neighborhood would get chicken pox and the other mothers would bring their kids over to catch it, figuring that it is almost inevitable that their kid is going to get it, so why not get it when they're young and the outbreak isn't so bad.
I didn't get chicken pox until I was 15 years old, and when I got it I got it on every square inch of my body, from my scalp to the soles of my feet, to a few inside my throat. It sucked for two weeks, but after that it was no big deal.
For crying out loud, we're not talking about polio! The bureaucrats in the so-called field of "public health policy" ought to learn to just leave everybody the hell alone over little things like this. No doubt some bureaucrat -- looking to justify his job -- put this little piece of policy together so he could strut around proudly at the office Christmas party and retire "with honors" -- a big oil portrait of himself hanging in some government building's lobby.
Sorry for the rant!
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
I had it done, but not before going to 2 different places for a consultation. I paid more for the newer lasers, and I think it was worth it. Everybody heals differently, so some people need touch-ups, I didn't. 2 years later, I can still read the 20/13 line on an eye chart, even after spending many hours a day in front of a computer monitor. I have a friend who had the same results. Ask anyone else you know who had it done where they went, I did, and I was happy I went the same place.
... and she claims it has changed her life.
we went up to vancouver where she had non-invasive laser prk surgery. same result, less cut-eye freakiness. she did it going on 3 years ago now, no problems, no hiccups. shes now 20/15, 20/20.
the best part: we got airfare, the surgery, 10 days in a downtown hotel and living large for the same price as it would have cost for just the surgery in los angeles.
gotta love those canuck bucks!
You can put goggles over your contacts but that's a pain. Swimming in any natural body of water will result in your contacts being covered in bacteria the next day.
Prescription goggles are available, but they're excessively expensive and make you look dorkish if your just playing water frisbee or water-skiing.
Lasik rocks!!!! If you get night halos, just slap on some polarized glasses.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
I had 20/40 vision in both eyes, now I have 20/20 and 20/25. The surgery isn't bad at all. If you have a habit of touching your eyes you could get yourself in a world of trouble by wrinkling up your cornea. You must give it time to heal and be very careful with it for a while afterwards.
One thing to note. While you can get 20/20 or in some cases 20/15 vision but keep in mind that your vision will never be as sharp as it is when you wear glasses. Now don't get me wrong, you will see 20/20, but the clarity is isn't there. Oh, and you will see what some people call starburst at night when you are driving. Most of that will clear up with time, but it never completely goes away.
My opinion? I would do it again without question.
I was nearly blind and now I can see awesome.
I haven't had my eyes checked since the post op checkups so I can't tell you if it's gotten any worse but I don't think it has.
I was so heavily dependent on glasses. I take it for granted now that I don't have to wear it but if I stop and think about how bad my vision is, the surgery truly was a miracle.
Night driving I do have some starbursts around lights but I'm not sure if it's any worse than a person with naturally good eyes. It doesn't stop me from driving or anything.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
My vision was around 20/25 in one eye and 20/30 in another. I mostly had mild astigmatism in both eyes, enough to need glasses for crisp vision but not enough for driving and so on.
Lasik wasn't an option because my prescription was so mild. I also didn't want to wear contacts all the time. So enter Ortho-K.
Basically Ortho-K is hard contact lenses(RGP lenses) that you wear at night and they reshape your eyes. The reshaping is temporary, but it lasts anywhere from 24-48 hours after you remove the lenses. It's 100% safe and completely reversable. The only down side is that you have to wear contacts lenses when you sleep and it's not an option if your vision is real bad.
The doctor I went to nailed my vision down to 20/15 vision in both eyes. As I grow older and my eyesight changes, he can simply alter my prescription and keep my vision at this level.
See http://www.ortho-k.net/ for more information.
I went in with blurry vision and came out with 40/20 vision. Me? Happy? You bet!
There were three of us done that evening, of all of us the only problems were my alergy to the antibiotic eyedrops, and one guy managed to rub his eye in the night and displace the meniscus. I was given a different eyedrop and he was scolded and given a poke with a q-tip.
Wearing contact lenses and glasses carry their own risks, which (depending on your behavior) might actually make Lasik-corrected eyes less risky for you.
I found that when wearing soft lenses, I was often too lazy to take them out when sleeping. That carries a nontrivial risk of serious infection. I went to wearing glasses more often, but then since I get around by bicycle, I found myself riding often with my normal glasses on. Normal glasses are lousy eye protection, as the good-looking thin lenses are far more susceptible to shattering than polycarbonate cycling shields.
Now theoretically I could have changed my behavior to mitigate those risks. And believe me, before Lasik, I tried. But the fact was that I lacked the willpower or whatever, and so I believe getting Lasik was the less risky option for me.
That said, pay close attention to the posts explaining poor night vision in terms of expanded irises. The point is, the wider the "lens" carved by the laser, the deeper into your cornea it must protrude. When your irises expand beyond lens width due to darkness, you start to get blurring and halos. This isn't horribly complicated, but appears to be sufficiently complicated that the doctors never bother explaining it.
Your doctor must choose a balance between the darkness threshold at which your night vision begins to suffer, and the amount of cornea he/she is willing to burn away.
Best 5,000USD I ever spent.
The guy who did mine is also the head of occular trauma at NYU so I figured even if he fucked it up he could fix it.
HOWEVER:
Despite its name YOU DO NOT get the ability to shoot lasers from your eyes. That was pretty disappointing.
BTW My vision is still perfect. Go get it.
This
My wife had the laser eye surgery done in Austin, Texas by Dr. Dell ( no coincidence, he's Michael Dell's brother) at Texan Eye Care. Prior to the surgery her uncorrected vision was in the 20/600 range. She could not read the 2" high LCD clock letters on the night table without her contact lenses. The day after the surgery her vision was 20/20 in one eye and 20/25 in the other. It has been about five years now and her vision is still 20/20. She claims it was the best money she ever spent.
My uncorrected vision is about 20/50 and I don't find life with (or without, since I can do without for normal everyday life) to be much trouble, so the surgery isn't worth it to me, but it changed her life.
Peter
Downsize DC Today!
When I was attending Annapolis, they were considering letting people get Lasik so they could become fighter jet pilots, but there wasn't enough data at the time to decide one way or the other, something about G-Forces. If you ever want to go to space, I'd look into how that research turned out. You can be in the military with Lasik, just not a jet pilot, helicopter pilots could have it though. This is off-topic since plain old corrective lenses improved my vision. I would have never considered lasik anyway. I was only slightly myopic, so the slight benifit of perfect vision didn't out weigh the risk, and my Uncle lost his night vision when he got it, I hear thats par for the procedure though.
Both my wife and I had the surgery. I had -4.5 correction in both eyes before the surgery (near sighted, I can never remember the sign, but I think it is minus) and my wife had -9.75 and -10.25. We went to the same surgeon, well regarded and with (at the time) thousands and thousands of procedures under his belt.
I had a great experience. When I'm tired, I have some blurriness that I didn't have before, but for the most part it went well for me.
My wife did not have a good experience. She ended up with too much scarring (I guess) so that at low light, when the pupils are most open, she has starring and streaming, meaning that any light will cover the rest of her vision.
She cannot drive at night, enjoy dark movies, play billiards in a dark pool hall or see the stars.
Those of you saying "coke bottle glasses" - then I'd advise against the procedure. The correction necessary for strong prescriptions lead to bad side effects because of the size of the area that needs to be treated.
Some other suggestions:
1) pour on the lubricating drops during that first month -- i don't think you can do too much.
1b) if your eyes itch, put in some drops!
2) do NOT touch your eyes while you are healing
3) do NOT do it during allergy/hay feaver season
4) do NOT squint hard to relieve the itching
We think that she might have had a better experience with the new lasers that are more precise in applying the correction. The new techniques analyze the surface of the eye during the procedure to better guage where the treatment should be applied. The older method (4 years ago) used a map that the doctor programmed into the machine without feedback during the procedure.
ps - A better explanation of my wife's results. I think (IANAO) that the lasers leave angles on the surface of the eye (not the cornea, which was moved out of the way for the surgery). These angles occur on the boundry between the LASIKed area and the untreated area. When the pupils open wide, these area allow light to be refracted to multiple locations on the retina, which then covers the area of the retina that should be picking up other images.
I haven't had Lasik but I work for a Park Avenue eye doc who does a lot of Lasik in his practice. If you are going to do it, you really need to do your homework. Learn about the different kinds of lasers and the different kinds of laser correction. Your consult anywhere you go should be free. You should also have a full year of checkups and/or enhancements at no extra cost. Basically, you get what you pay for. The doc I work for has treated over 20,000 eyes and has only had one dissatisfied patient. He also charges $5000. You will hear a lot about "custom" Lasik with Wavefront technology. It's worth it. You will see better. If I were going to get Lasik, I would only do it with Wavefront. OKay, that said, our patients are beaming when they leave. We get letters and emails from patients constantly saying "words cannot express" how happy they are. (I've seen those exact words many, many times.) They say it is a life changing experience. And most of our patients are word-of-mouth referrals from other patients. I'm telling you this simply to say that people other than the Lasik doctors are saying it's great. On the other hand, my doc has offered it to me for almost free and I haven't taken him up on it. I haven't seen anything bad happen to anyone, I'm just really phobic about stuff near my eyes... Bottom line: don't go to a discount center, it isn't worth it. Good luck making your decision!
Orthokeratology or Ortho-K for short.
Basically they're reverse geometry rigid gas permeable contact lenses that reshape your eyes. Bad vision is caused by bumps and ridges in our visible part of the eye and Ortho-K is the art of flattening that part of the eye to correct vision. Your eyes are elastic and will hold their shape for 24-48 hours if you reshape them. So you wear these contacts at night and have good vision for the rest of the day. With Ortho-K the contacts are specially designed for you based off a laser map of your eye and the use of cad-like software to create the lenses.
I had mild vision problems(used glasses to read and watch tv, didn't for anything else) and I use ortho-k to give me 20/15 vision all the time.
Ortho-K has been around since the 60's, but has only recently gotten better due to tech like eye laser mapping and good software for designing the lenses. You never hear about it though because Lasik is all the rage.
Now they are using something called wavefront technology, I guess they are able to ablate away your cornea in fractions of a wavelength of visible light (the laser is UV to prevent heating which would kill underlying cells).
I believe that before wavefront technology, they just looked at your prescription (focal length error in diopters, astigmatism) and take off the corresponding amount of lens across the entire aperture of your eye based on those few numbers.
With wavefront technology, they look at many points of the lens independently to decide how much to take off at each point.
The Google words for how this works are (hartmann shack wavefront).
I would hold off for a few years on the surgery. The main reason is the fact that, right now, only a couple of different types of deficiencies can be correct using surgery, namely sphere (or focus, not to be confused with spherical aberration) and astigmatism. Other optical aberrations of the eye, especially spherical aberration and coma (3rd order and above) are left uncorrected. This is what leads to the night vision problems--the aberrations aren't as bad during the day because the pupil is stopped down and the system is more "paraxial". At night the pupil is wide open and the aberrations will be much worse. This is further exacerbated by the fact that a little bit of focus error actually can help compensate for spherical aberration. When we're sitting looking through the optometrist's phoropter ("is this better...or is this?") we will choose the lens that lets us see best. But, when the laser is ablating material to shape the cornea, it follow an objective measurement that doesn't take perception into account. It's going to be a few years until there's a common, good clinical instrument that can measure higher order aberrations and probably a while before the surgery can correct them (especially since they can only be perfectly correct for one point in the visual field--lots of perceptual experiments need to be done to figure out how to make the correction acceptable for all field points.)
... laser surgery on my eyes a while back, there is a group of horror story patients at http://www.surgicaleyes.org/Index.htm ... lasik rules... when it works correctly. It is hell on earth when it doesn't. Based on what i've read there and else where about 1% have "hideous" problems (cornea detachment etc), 2% more have "bad problems" (extreme dry eyes), and about 2% more yet have "problems" (starbursts, flares, streaks, bad floaters), and an unknown percentage beyond have other problems that require further laser surgery to correct. I would honestly say my general thought is this:
If you are an excellent canidate for the surgery, its not a bad idea, if you don't have suberb lens thickness, great levels of moisture, etc... don't consider it. Your eyes are not replaceable.
Shadus
OK, now I'll tell you my personal experience (that's what GodLessOne is looking for, isn't it?). I got LASIK performed on my eyes back in December, 2001. At that time I lived in Colombia.
It turns out that, to the surprise of many of you, Colombian ophthalmologists are actually leaders in their field. Keratomileusis, the first refractive-correction surgery procedure was developed by Dr José Barraquer, and ALK (automated lamellar keratoplasty) by one of his students, Dr Luis Antonio Ruiz. ALK was very similar to LASIK, but the actual molding of the cornea was done mechanically. A Greek ophthalmologist was apparently the first one to use an excimer laser to do the molding, although I have read references that it was also Dr Ruiz's team who developed the automatic tracking mechanism that warranties that the laser will always burn the correct part of the cornea even if the eye moves. (The eye is not completely inmovilized. They ask you to look up, where there used to be a red light moments before, but if you do move your eyes it's OK.)
I barely knew about Barraquer back in 2001, and nothing else. Some friend of my family strongly recommended some Dr. Luis Ruiz when they found out I was interested in LASIK. Only a year later, when I was researching LASIK on the web for a friend who also wanted to get her eyes treated, did I find out that I had been operated by one of the inventors of the damned thing. By the way, my friend also lives in the USA and got her eyes operated by Dr. Ruiz during a holiday vacation trip. I recently talked to her and she told me that she went for a control appointment a few weeks back and she's still 20/20 (she went to Colombia for an unrelated reason).
Back to my story:
So my recommendations are:
What you are asking is difficult to answer. If you have extremely bad vision,even a small improvement is worth it.
halos around bright lights at night are common right after surgery, but for most people they tend to diminish over time (especially for a healthy non-smoker/non-drinker)
You need many visits to your opthalmologist after surgery. 1 day after, one week, one month, six months, and annual checkups at the least. This should be included in the surgery cost.
I had my eyes done and the best thing was to read better 10 minutes after surgery than I have for the 15 years previous and normal sized street signs at a distance of 1/4 mile just 1 week after surgery
This is MY experience. Yours may be different, so you have to make the ultimate choice.
I post anon because I didn't want to take time to create an account
I got LASIK done about 2 years ago. I would recommend it to anyone. I went from 20/200 to 20/20. That being said, it did affect my night vision. The older lasers could only treat 6mm on your eye which means that at night when my pupils expand to be larger than that 6mm I get halos around lights. It's not that bad, but driving at night in the rain is a little more difficult than it used to be. IIRC, there is a new FDA approved laser that can treat 9mm which should eliminate this problem. A word of advise. Do NOT skimp on your doctor. I went to one of the best in the country in Dallas who has performed over 10,000 of these procedures. I was in and out in less than a half hour even though my surgery was non-standard due to my deeply recessed eyes. I paid $1500 per eye (3 years ago).
They say there are two types of surgery that you don't care about the cost: your heart and your eyes. It's true.
(1) It's far better to be your doctor's 1000th surgery than his 50th. Experience is extremely important.
(2) Even if you're not a geek, the model of laser machine your doctor uses is very important. Older ones don't have dynamic tracking to follow your eye movements during the dot vaporizing stage. No matter how hard you try to hold it perfectly still, your eye will move. This will substantially increase the chances of less than a perfect outcome.
(3) You didn't mention your age. If you're over 50 and have borderline dry eyes to begin with (I had to take out my extended wear soft contacts every night), you're going to have real (but temporary) problems with dryness following your surgery. The mechanism is simple: The microtome will peel back a surface flap to expose the cornea below. Any nerve endings in that flap are severed in the process. They grow back in 4-6 months, but in the mean time the surface numness takes away the stimulus needed to produce normal tears. Don't be surprised if you have to use eye drops A LOT after your surgery.
(4) The surgery blew away my up close near vision. This is a common trade-off that can't be helped. Some folks get one eye done for near vision and the other for far. That wouldn't be my choice. Reading glasses are inexpensive and very effective.
(5) Before my surgery I was almost totally disabled without my glasses (-4 plus diopters, plus astigmatism). I'm about 20/40 now in one eye and 20/50 in the other, and have some minor double vision. Not a perfect result (I'm thinking about going back for a trim), but overall I consider the improvement nothing short of miraculous.
Bottom Line: RECOMMENDED
I got Lasik perhaps four or five years ago, and couldn't be more pleased. I don't remember what my vision was before, but it went down to 20/20 in one eye and 20/15 (i.e., slightly better than "perfect") in the other.
The procedure was incredibly straightforward. They offered me some valium (which wasn't strictly necessary but is always a nice thing to have), put some various drops in my eyes, then shined a laser into them. The actual cutting was mostly painless and took only a minute or two. I was in and out of the operating room in less than ten minutes total. Afterwards I had to put some drops in my eyes and take care not to bump them for a week or so.
I don't think you could make a better investment. The convenience of not having to worry about glasses or contacts (especially for swimming) is tremendous.
I did it, it worked, and I am very happy with it. LASIK took me from 20/40 in one eye and 20/60 in the other with moderate to severe astigmatic error (>1.5 diopters) in both eyes to 20/10 in both eyes with no measurable astigmatic error in either eye.
:)
These results are somewhat atypical, but the average post-op visual acuity for the 30,000 LASIK patients ahead of me at Barnett, Dulaney, and Perkins was 20/15. I ceremonially smashed my old bi-focals and bought myself a nice pair of Maui Jim's in celebration. Since I can now see clearly without glasses, my paintball and racquetball games have reached a new level. And as an amateur astronomer, having one less layer of glass between me and the universe is a good thing.
I have had three negative side-effects, but all were transitory or responded to treatment.
The first was some some artifacting around diffuse light sources for the first six months post-op. This was a minor thing -- I spent most of my childhood swimming in chlorinated pools, so the haloing I was seeing around the flourscents above my cube was kinda familiar.
The second was artifacting around point sources at night for the first twelve months post-op, and this was not so minor. I would see diffraction patterns that obscured anything in close proximity to the point source. It was pretty, but damned annoying at times. As a matter of fact, it made driving near pedestrians with on-coming trafic, like in stadium parking lots at night after a ball game, no bloody fun at all. I coped by taking taxis at night until the artifacting went away.
The third side effect was reduced tearing leading to dry eyes at about 8 months post-op, caused by inflamed lachrymal ducts, but that has been successfully treated with an anti-inflammatory. It was annoying at times, yes, but I considered the bottle of artificial tears I carried with me everywhere until it was fixed a small price to pay.
Potential side-effects were identified to me before the surgery, along with their incident rates. The artifacting and haloing will occur in 99.9% of people undergoing LASIK, and will last for six to twelve months post-op. The inflamed lachrymal ducts occur in 33 percent. Until this year, the only remediation option for the inflamed ducts was a surgical procedure with a ten percent success rate to block the uptake ducts, keeping what tears you do produce around longer, or so the theory goes. Available just this spring, though, is a specific anti-inflammatory called cyclosporin (retail name Restasis) that has been approved for treating LASIK-induced lachrymal duct inflammation. It definitely worked for me.
I should point out that LASIK has been an approved procedure here in the US for less than ten years. There are no long term, longitudinal studies available, so don't be dismayed if you don't find any in your research. In lieu of a real study, I checked with ten people where I work that have undergone the procedure. Nine of them reported outstanding results, which happily, I was able to personally verify. The tenth had a negative experience (still wears glasses, and actually had to get a new, stronger, prescription) and is understandably quite bitter about it. It is, after all, elective surgery, and the risk is real.
One final note: Motorcycle riders have an old adage: If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet. Don't try to save money if you decide to have LASIK. Do your research and pay for the best. I went with Barnett, Dulaney and Perkins because they've done the most LASIK procedures in my state, and they have done the third most in the nation. I could have had it done for 1/5 what they charged me, but my eyes are kinda important to me...
Talk with your opthamologist/optomitrist first. I had it done and had a pretty bad prescription +5/+5.5 and a large amount of astigmatism. The results for me were good enough (20/40 with both eyes, some residual astigmatism). I went for several years w/o glasses, but evenutally went back to using them. I can function fine w/o glasses, but fine work (tying a #22 fly on a 5x leader) was more difficult than when I was using glasses, which gave me 20/20 vision. If you are farsighted, you can expect some regression over the first couple of weeks and your vision will not be "oh my god!" great just after surgery. You should be sure that your doctor is experienced and well qualified, especially if you are a difficult case. A difficult case is defined as very farsighted and/or lots of astigmatism. People who are nearsighted tend to have better results. You should also be sure that your doctor measures your corneal thickness -- some of the cheesier (read cheaper) ones will take practically anyone and insufficient corneal thickness is a receipe for disaster. Also, the size of your pupil in low light should be measured. If your pupil is too large when fully opened you will have problems with your vision in low light. This can be corrected with glasses for night vision and is not an uncommon side effect of the surgery. The fact that I can read, drive and generally function quite well w/o glasses is a real blessing. The thing that drove me to get glasses again was the eye strain associated with long hours at the computer. All in all it was worth it and I would do it again, especially since the techniques for the surgery have improved since I had it about four years ago.
Isn't theory a great place? Everything works in theory.
Now I look like Neo at the end of Matrix Revolutions.
Damn you Slashdot!
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Then the left eye seemed a little blurry. A contact for that one and its uncorrected vision sucked almost as bad as the right eye's. Still not as nearsighted as before but the astigmatism was much, much worse. Seems they took too much off the corneas and they started to buckle and warp. My vision kept getting worse for awhile. Now the right eye is at -12 diopters (!?!) and the left is at -8. With 2 diopters of astigmatism (I think that's what the guy told me - does that make sense to the opticians out there?).
So I'm back to contacts all the time. But my vision with them isn't as good. And the vision without them is seriously jacked. But the worst part was being free from contacts for two years and having to go back to them. I really miss being able to fall asleep whenever and wherever...
Had a work buddy with a baby with crossed eyes... Their paediatrician gave the child a botox injection to the muscles that point the eyes to shorten the outer ones and correct the problem. (This is in fact the sort of thing botox was licensed for apparently prior to all the cosmetic stuff its used for now.)
Perhaps this would work for you too?
E.
You should look into intacts to see if you can get those instead. They're better than Lasik. My mother got intacts, and she doesn't need glasses anymore. She had problems with far- and near-sightednes.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
I asked my opthamologist about this a while ago, and his comment was that if I was happy with what I have right now (soft contact lenses, glasses), then to stick with it.
:)
This is, I guess, the safe approach. I have poor vision, but have no problem taking care of my contacts and they cause me no problems (except for slight discomfort when glaring at a computer display at work). I have briefly considered lasering, but will continue with the status quo for now. Disclaimer - this is subject to change at any time.
Part of me wishes, however, that I could actually see my clock radio without squinting.
for my girlfriend, now ex-girlfriend, three years ago. Was the best thing I've ever done for another human being. Three years later, and she's still 20-20, or thereabout. And the techniques keep getting better and better. From her experience, I'd say go for it.
Linux kernel hacker Val Henson had LASIK last year and he writes about it (including lots of recent research) online.
I highly recommend getting your eyes replaced with lasers. You will never see your cats in the same way again.
Krispy Cream is people
a few hundred or thousand bucks on eye surgery... or you could get a pair of eyeglasses online for less than $20.
I saw the laser boot up in MSWindows. Yikes! Blue screen of death with a laser pointed in my eye? Pretty scary!
But I don't regret it.
Best advice I got while researching concerned (a) doctors and (b) machinery.
(a) Doctors.
1. Ask how many procedures they've done. The number of operator errors and procedural problems goes down dramatically after the first 1000 procedures on a particular machine. If the surgery has just got a brand new machine, it's time to wait for a few others to do the beta testing.
2. Ask what percentage of cases the doctor advises against the procedure. This will tell you about how conservative they are about your risk. The more people they turn away, the more they care about the long term safety of your cornea. Corneal bulge has been known to occur when the cornea is ablated too thin. There are varying opinions in the literature about what is too thin. I'd go with conservative!
3. Ask who they refer their problem cases to. Generally there is one doc in the area that does the clean-up on the problem cases. I drove 50 miles to go to the guy that others referred their problems to. He was also the most conservative. Surprise!
(b) Machines.
Google is your friend. New machines are coming out all the time. There is a difference in (a) the smoothness of the resultant cornea and (b) the diameter of area that can be ablated. Do your homework.
With all that said, I'm in my 50s. My vision was stable and was extremely near sighted and astigmatic. I can sometimes see halos around point sources at night, but basically I'm now 20/20. I have no trouble driving at night. I still need reading glasses like most people over 50. My enjoyment of the 3-D world around me is much greater now. Even 2 years later I continously marvel at simple things like trees and buildings and pretty girls.
I've also found that Bausch & Lomb ICaps (one cap a day) do a great job of alleviating the dryness problem caused by the reduced blink reflex post Lasik.
...following PRK really isn't that bad. I do get starbursting, but it's not so severe that I can't drive (and my vision prior to surgery was BAD).
I get the worst starbursting when it's pitch black apart from a single, small light source (like a small lit LED in an otherwise dark room), however because I drive with the headlights on, there's always enough ambient light that my pupils don't dilate to the point where my vision is adversely affected.
I can still watch movies and play games in the dark with no problem. I get a little starburst if I look away from the screen at the lights on the DVD player, but the vision of the screen itself is always fine.
Check with your doctor. If you have large pupils, then don't go for the surgery.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
I got lasik 4 years ago, spent $2K per eye, and had both eyes done at the same time. It was absolutely worth every penny. I've heard the horror stories and the people who are afraid, but haven't gone through with the procedure. But, like many other posters have stated, you get what you pay for.
Get a referral from someone (or several people) who have had a successful procedure from the same person and you're likely to be as happy as I am with the results. Anyone who's had to battle with glasses or contacts every day (especially if you can't see the clock in the morning) will be amazed at the sense of freedom they feel when they don't have to worry about it again.
I did it a year ago, am 40. I had Lasix the laser does everything. I must admit I wish I had done it years ago. Been wearing glasses since I was 14. I have no night vision problems was blind as a bat (400/20) now have 15/20. I had it done in FL Orlando by Filotowski Institute. He was awesome has new system called ClearVue worked great. No pain, no discomfort. Could see when I left the office and the next morning it was awesome.
As you get older, your eyes' ability to focus (accommodation) diminishes. Your eyes will tend to their default (relaxed) focal length. I'm a bit near sighted (-2.25 diopters correction), so in my rocking chair my eyes will focus at about 18 inches. That's a convenient distance. It will enable me to read comfortably, to see my computer monitor, and to see distance well enough that I don't walk into walls.
Independent of the risks of failure, lasic surgery accelerates the deterioration of accommodation. I'd sooner not accelrate that process, and in the limit I'd prefer an 18 inch focal length. So I'll play the cards I was dealt.
This is part of what I do. And it's good. It's very good - and getting better. One of the first things I did was have one of my colleagues work on me. My recommendations:
1) Find a clinic that can perform a "wavefront ablation." These are procedures that are customized to your own eye instead of based on a generic template. The difference lies in that they can correct third and fourth order curve errors, not just sphere and cylinder. The technology is not yet mainstream so you may have to hunt around.
2) Ask the doctor how many procedures he's performed, what % require revision, and what percent result in impaired vision.
3) I personally believe in IntraLASIK. It's an all-laser method of creating the eye flap. Traditional methods use a very sharp blade on a battery powered slider. While good, these devices can skip a bit and actually *create* third order error.
4) For god's sakes, FOLLOW YOUR POST-OP INSTRUCTIONS. Use the eyedrops RELIGIOUSLY, use the eye shield at night. This stuff is micrometer surgery. It doesn't take much to ruin an otherwise optimal result.
Best wishes!
U of Iowa
My story still holds true today.
I don't have dry eyes anymore. Went away after about 2 or 3 years. I still get starburts around oncoming headlights when my eyes are really tired, but I don't notice it unless I'm really paying attention. Your brain compensates.
Otherwise, I'm still 20/15 in both eyes and couldn't be happier.
Had Lasik surgery over three years ago and it went perfectly. Both eyes are 20/20 or better and haven't changed measurably since shortly after the surgery.
Best $3000 I ever spent and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
-AD
And I'd still do it again in a second.
:
I've always had trouble with local anesthesia, I feel incredible pain when have cavities drilled even with multiple shots of novacaine. I felt the cutting on my eye pretty clearly and just kept a good grip on my belt.
I love the results. 20/10 for the first few weeks, and now 20/15 3 years later.
About my surgery:
I had gas perm lenses before surgery. I had to wear soft lenses for a couple of months to let my eyes relax to their natural shape.
I had a moderate astigmatism in one eye. It was completely corrected. The computer they used to map the eye was very cool - you could see the astigmatism in the map.
I got a pretty large diameter cut. Having a small diameter cut is what causes halos at night, as the circular cut is inside the range of vision. A large diameter avoids this (but there must be some limiting factor, or everyone would have large cuts).
Rules I would follow (this are also repeated throughout this thread)
1. Pay for a good doctor. I went to TLC to a doctor who's done more than almost any other doctor in the country. Make sure they have the latest machines (new ones come out constantly). $1800/eye is what you would expect to pay for this.
2. Try to use a pre-tax medical flex spending account to at least save 20-30%.
3. Ask for a valium if they don't offer it upfront. Wish I had.
4. Be nice to your eyes. Take regular breaks from your monitor. Do focus exercises on your breaks (far away, left eye only, right eye only, etc).
Good luck!
I had -9.5 in one eye and -10.5 in the other with mild astigmatism. I went to a place that had been doing it for about 10 years. The smell is akin to burning arm hair - I know it's a cold laser but the cornea that gets removed goes somewhere. I had 20/70 vision half an hour after the procedure and 20/15 the next day. My eyesight has been stable at 20/20 since then. I was 21 when I had the surgery, they said that my young age ment they could be a bit more agressive. I've been very happy with it. I had halos at night for 2-3 months, but either they've gone or I adapted completely. I had a teacher in college that had it done despite his eye doctor's recomendation not to - his corneas were too thin. I've heard he can't drive at night and has horrible halos now.
I had the surgery 1.5 years ago. I'm unsure on the laser type, but here's some thoughts on the matter. I was a -2 and am now a -0.5 in both eyes. Not only that, but I can't see anything at night perfectly clear with or without correction. I guess that means the area covered was insufficient. All I wanted to do was see the stars at night, and now I can never see them clearly, corrected or uncorrected. What do people do to correct this situation?
Folks, I had terrible eyesight before the surgery and had both eyes done at the same time. My eyes were myopic, but I'm not sure what my prescription was, since I don't care any more! I was a little nervous, but a good friend had a great experience with the same doctor. My post surgery was probably a little atypical, but I was free of drops in 3 weeks, and I had 20/10 vision in both eyes at that time. My vision has is as perfect as I can imagine. I call it a miracle. I would do it again tomorrow at the same price ($3,000.00 USD). Find a doctor you trust and do it.
Buddy of mine was just in iraq for 9 months, and he just got lasik, and he's still hanging out in his barracks waiting to go to afganistan with the army.
mooted? (As in a moot point?)
I know of two people that've had it done - my roommate LOVES it; she had it done about a year ago and hasn't had any problems with it. I had a teacher in high school who had it done when it was still relatively new...she had awful vision (Coke-bottle glasses all the way), and it worked for awhile but then her vision went back to being less-than-perfect. Still nowhere near where it was before, though. She had it done again and hasn't had any problems since.
I had custom lasik done within the last three months. My contact lens prescription was stable at about -3 in each eye and my vision was 20/15 with contacts. 24 hours after the surgery I tested 20/15 in each eye and now see 20/10 together. I have absolutely no artifacting or night vision issues and my overal vision is better in every way than with contacts (which says quite a lot in my case). My procedure was a thrilling success.
Custom lasik optimizes the procedure for each individual eye so that the odd of a superior result the first time through are improved. The surcharge was $500 per eye ($2500 each was what I paid) for custom but I can't imagine not going that route. I can't recommend custom lasik highly enough (and I had superior vision with contacts).
my advice, get it while and enjoy the years without glasses. just make sure you go to a respectable doctor who knows what they are doing. this is definately not something you want to get from a fly-by-night clinic because they advertise the "cheapest price in town." real doctors are leasing and using the latest equipment, doctors who own their equipment upgrade it far less often.
take your time, do your research on the doctor who will perform the surgery and the exact equipment they will use (watch out for bait and switch!). a good place will give you all the details you can ask for. google the equipment they are using (i did, the B&L laser they were using had all its specs online).
anyway. i'm a very happy success story. hope you are too.
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my grandpa had it about 5 years ago, his eyes have never been better, he has no problems with it at all, and it all went smooth as. he now doesn't need glasses!
If you have keratoconis, the usual corrective eye surgery isn't an option. However, "intacts" are pretty new and are an option (plastic rings are inserted around the cornea).
http://www.keratoconusinserts.com/
John Kerry is a Joke!
I was roughly 20/400 before the surgery, but 20/20 with glasses. I guess I should have paid closer attention to the risks before, as I now have terrible night vision, with starbursts, halos and ghosting. It is particularly bad when I look at LED's. I get the starbursts in a lit room on those. They also look a bit "smeared". I would not recommend lasik to anyone that can get 20/20 with glasses or contacts. It's almost unsafe for me to drive at night now. Also, I'm sure someone's probably mentioned this already, but you can check out surgicaleyes.org and lasikdisaster.com for some real horror stories. Beware of the "20/20 or it's free" ads, because they define my vision as 20/20...
I've known three people who've gotten the surgery (an uncle and two friends), and all have been successes in correcting to 20/20 vision. All three have also had minor side-effects (halos at night, etc), many of which are discussed here. Though my uncle CAN drive at night, he avoids it at nearly all costs. Despite this and other "relatively" minor problems, all three say they're very happy and would do it again.
People who get this surgery done hope for and want a good outcome. Having also just spent a good sum of money on something pretty risky, they're almost zealous about how great it is -- and, if you ask me, overly dismissive of what I'd consider to be some more than minor side-effects that seem all too common. You can see it in many of the stories posted in response to this story - "I couldn't see for crap for 3 months, and I see halos at night now, BUT I'D DO IT AGAIN" -- yadda. I think it's psychological defense to tell yourself how great it is to overcome the fact there are definitely noticable side-effects I'd have a very hard time living with.
The other scary thing to me is the level of marketing and hoopla that goes behind it. It's a great way to make money, and I've been solicited during virtually every visit to an Opthamologist I've made in the last couple years by either the Doctor or their assistant. It's rather disturbing. I also find it funny that many folks seem to equate expensive with "good". From what I have read, this is a rather simple procedure for doctor/"surgeon"...whats making it possible and actually doing the work is a very expensive laser. The side-effects of the procedure seem (like poorer night-vision, halos, etc) to be quite uniform regardless of which doctor or the money spent.
Anyway, I sit here with my really cheap soft-contacts and see 20/20 perfectly with no halos nor discomfort and wonder what exactly all the hoopla is about. While there are risks with contacts, its quite a bit smaller than with surgery, and far easier to correct if something does happen.
To those who risk arguably their most important sense, blow a few thousand dollars and gain comfort by picking a surgeon based on how expensive their are, my best wishes. Same goes with referrals - many operations are a seeming success, but problems arise later. Or then there are the dolts who, IMO, are telling a horror story but end with "I was extremely satisified" and can be safely be put into the success stories of Doctor X. Good luck.
I've been wearing glasses for most of my life. Started at third grade, and I've done it all. Glasses, contacts, gas permeable contacts, you name it. My vision was about 20/400, (-4.75) and I couldn't recognize anyone that was further than arms length from me. Friends that tried my glasses on were lucky if they could stay standing. Yes, some contacts are very comfortable and you even forget you are wearing them, but in the end, there is always the morning wake up where you need eyedrops, and when you wear them too long, the optomitrist chews you out.
I finally decided a couple years ago that I was going to give it a go. I strongly reccomend that you check out all the info you can, including the worst case scenarios, because you might be one of them. I checked it out, and decided that I was going to take the risk.
I paid $1200 to get both eyes done, with lifetime corrections if I needed it. I had no pain other than a slight pricking type pain in the second eye they did (which they warned me in advance usually happens). After the surgery I was at about 20/40 vision, although I think that was pushing it a bit. I felt that my vision was better, but it was a bizarre blurry that I didn't care for.
I had some pretty severe problems with dry eyes. I did very good at keeping them moist in the daytime, but at night my eyes would be open a crack and would dry out so bad that eventually I had to start putting white petroleum jelly in them at night to keep them moist. I don't think it's possible to overemphasize the importance of KEEPING YOUR EYES WET. Those little sterile eyedrops may cost a bit, but it's nothing compared to what you paid for the surgery, and it's nothing compared to the problems you can have if you don't keep them wet.
Anyways, I now have 20/20 vision and no real problems to speak of other than a slight halo around lights when I'm driving at night, but it's not really enough to even notice. It took about a year before my eyes were to the point where I was completely happy with it.
I have to admit though, that it is some of the best spent money I have blown. I would do it over again at twice the price. I have completely and totally forgotten about eyesight now. I don't wake up not being able to see (other than the night goobers that clean up out of your eyes. heheh). I can swim and see perfectly. I don't have to buy saline solution, I don't have to worry about having glasses knocked off or broken, or about having contacts roll back in my eyes when I rub them wrong. Dang. I have really come to take for granted what it's like to have 20/20 vision.
When you have bad eyesight, there are reminders every single day in some way or another. With this surgery, I don't have any of the little reminders and I LOVE IT!!!
I have looked at all of the laser options, but the risk of completely messing up my vision was not worth it to me. I found a local Ortho-K doctor for ~$900 for the eye exam, and contacts for both eyes. The hard contacts took me some time getting used to, but they are definatly better now. My eyes measured around a -1.75, but Ortho-K is supposed to work for up to around -6. My wife also went through the procedure. We both agree that the results are excellent. I personally think that the end result is better than either my soft contacts, or glasses, and I average around 20/15.
Some people I know and work with (in the computer field) have gone with Paragon CRT instead of Lasik and they cannot stop raving about it. Apparently it dosent work for everyone depending on how bad and or prone to glaucoma or astigmatism they are, but it is entirely reversible as there is no surgery involved.
2 543,658680,00.html
Doing a simple google search brought up a simple explanation at Popular Science, http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/article/0,1
There is also a homepage, http://paragoncrt.com/
I would read more about before making a decision tho.
Best of luck.
I had lasik done about 5/6 years ago. (dont rember exactly) back then it cost me $2k usd an eye to doit. and it was woth every cent. my perscription was -7.25 in both eyes, i dont rembmer what the ##/## equivilat is. but i was hella blind. i coulnt defferintiat ppl from more than about 5 feet away. if that give you an idea. my experiance was as follows. had glasses since i was 7-8 yers old im now 26. i asked my optomitrist about it. and long sroty short, they said i was a good candidate, and they recomended a laser eye surgon. i looked into the surgon, went to his office, asked lots of question, what his credintials were. looked in to the places he claimed to get his education etc. and thought him to be a credible surgon, i went a head w/ the surgury and everyting went beautifly, imediatly after the surgy, i saw better than i did w/ my glasses or contact, aside from a slight haze. my vision was crystal clear about 3 dayz after that, an i would do it again if i had to. from looking into it. most complication from lazer eye surgery (at least at the time) re POST op, and mainly due to paitent neglect, i.e. not useing the eye drop they give you after words as prescribed, haveing other helth risk's the neglected to mention, going skiiing the next weekend, i found very few cases of surgical error, i decided the risk was worth it, from most things that were liekly to go wrong., my vision would have only gotten worse, and as bad as my eyes were, that wasnt a major concern any how. 5-6 years later, my eyes have changed slightly, and i use a mild perdcription for driveing, but other than that. im free of glasses/contacts, i can actualy see and drive fine w/ out them. but its just more comfortable w/ em, my main recomendation to any considering lazer eye surgery, is one, DO IT. two, b4 you pick a doctore, get a recomendation from a known good optomitrist, and then thourogly look into the surgon, lastly, stricly follow the prescription the give you after words, and the recomended DO not do activities. good luck.
--The Titanic was built by proffesionals. --The Ark was built by Amatures.
Wow, this is a coincidence. I just had LASIK performed on friday, and I'm still doing the treatment right now.
The proceedure didn't take long, it cost about $5000 australian, and was very easy once I got over my initial panic.
I was considered legally blind on thursday. Right now, less than 48 hours after treatment, I have 20/20 vision, and its going to get better.
The more you can relax during the surgery the better, because for my first eye i was tense and its slightly painful now.
The second I didn't (and don't still) feel a thing in.
There are risks - PRK is more invasive that LASIK, and takes longer to recover from, but I 100% recommend it.
So far my vision is incredible. I'm still amazed by it. Just be sure to find a reputable doctor to do it. Really really worth it!
There are horror stories. If you have it done and you start reading them, you'll panic - but you shouldn't. For the Adelaide clinic I went to, they had done over 15,000 of them and only ever had one screwup; where the person was too panicky to perform the op on.
Don't listen to the horror stories, if you can help it!
They had to give me two doses of valium. Aparently my blood pressure wasn't coming down enough. It's because I'm tall, yeah, I needed a bigger dose, yeah, it's not because I'm a wuss about my eyes... :)
I had this done last October (2003). It was truly the best money I have ever spent. I see now with my own eyes, without the nighttime effects. Most importantly, since I've been wearing lenses of some type since high school, I've never experienced the depth of the nighttime sky. When I look up, I can really FEEL depth, and that's because of the proper correction at the retina instead of in front of the cornea.
Some things to keep in mind:
If you don't use the eyedrops like your told to, the cornea flap can heal out of alignment causing the halo nighttime effect. The first 24hours after the surgery are the healing hours for the eye. Rest for those hours and take the drops without fail.
See the doctor when he tells you to see him. My doctor wanted to see me the next day, 5 days later, 10 days later, 30 days later, and once a month for 6 months.
Don't rub your eyes during the healing process. Just don't.
laters.
My experience:
... I can see! Two days ago, I literally could not make out distinct objects beyond about 18 inches, today I walked around Manhattan without glasses and could see street signs from blocks away...
... but wasn't the point of LASIK to not have to wear glasses?
Here's my LASIK journal.
January 25, 1999:
Two days ago I was:
OD -11.75, -1.5
OS -12.00, -1.5
Yesterday I had lasik at TLC Manhattan with Dr. Fox...
Today I'm around 20/30 or so, and 20/20 if I douse my eyes with eye drops... the vision is there, just not the crispness. (I still have some surface irritation, so that's clouding things a bit.)
But
This is way more than I expected... I had been expecting at least a week or so to go by before I felt comfortable driving, and while due to the post-op glare I'm not going to try night driving yet, I'm certainly fine to drive during the day. (Two days ago, sitting in the car without glasses I couldn't see the steering wheel, much less the road.)
February 9, 1999:
My screen is back to 1024x768 and normal fonts, though it's a bit blurry still. Significant ghosting at night -- night driving is not pleasant on unfamiliar roads as signs are unreadable until 2-3 seconds away at 55mph.
Eye chart test says I'm 20/40 left, 20/80 right -- but that fluctuates every day. I am using Bion Tears every hour, and everything clears up quite a bit for a few minutes after putting those in. My Dr says that the surface of my cornea is extremely dry and not smooth and that is causing the blurriness. I'd have to say he's right, considering I can see nearly 20/20 for a few minutes after using eye drops. He says that as long as I keep using the drops for a few more weeks, the roughness will go away. My flaps were completely invisible by 1-week postop, with no wrinkles.
June 26, 1999:
Post-surgery:
OD plano, -0.50
OS plano, -1.00
Post-correction (same MD, 30 June 1999):
OD plano, 0
OS plano, 0
I've had serious problems with healing due to dry eye and my vision has been consistently cloudy. My co-manage eye doctor says my eyes are gunked up with sloughed-off epithelial cells. Dry-eye is made worse by my eyelids not closing all the way at night.
Although my eyes are technically zero sph/cyl, I get about 20/40 OD and 20/80 OS on the Snellen. Problems with photophobia since the June correction -- I need to wear sunglasses outside even in very overcast weather.
At no time since the original procedure in January has my vision been better than 20/40 for more than a day or two.
The dry-eye is treated with lots of drops (celluvisc) during the day, and Refresh PM at night with eyes taped shut. I've had significant improvement in the past week or so since I've started taping my eyes shut at night, but still no better than 20/40 or so.
My night vision is worse than 20/100.
December 28, 2000:
I wear glasses again. Thin ones, granted, and I don't always have to wear them -- in fact, sometimes I forget to put them on, and don't realize so until hours later...
I think the technology still has a ways to go before it's ready for primetime.
I still have NO night vision. I need at least a 25-watt bulb to navigate.
April 2001:
If I could go back in time and undo my LASIK, I would.
June 2002:
No change in my opinion.
March 2004:
Still no change in my opinion.
I operate only one eye becouse im a little suspicius ,but all went ok .Except the first night and day :I was crying all day (Normal response) .
Two years later and all is OK .
Ask a doctor, not slashdot, sheesh!
A few people have mentioned the metric of the number of operations a doctor has performed as indicator of quality. I realize that there are very few metrics to come up with any comparative opinion on different doctors, but...
When I was working as a database consultant, one of my fellow designers received lasik surgery as payment for some database changes. The doc paid money to the company, but arranged for the several thousand dollars to be paid in "blue laser lasik surgery operation" for the programmer.
Long story short. He went through with it and had only minor problems (which had to be corrected by another doctor since he was based on the opposite coast most of the time) which cost money out of the designer's pocket. Later, he learned that the doctor in question used this barter method to get all sorts of stuff while cranking up his "number of operations".
The scuba ban lasts for the duration of the healing process (one month for salt water). Pressure has nothing to do with it. Your friend needs to talk to someone who's not an idiot.
ah, single greatest purchase of my life.
Doctor choice is key. My guy has been a a major player in corrective surgery since Radial Karototomy (sp?),in the mid 80's. Has been an author on mutiple research papers from PRK and the lasik procedure.
aside note: Lasik was an off-book procedure initially (aka involved combining two or more already approved procedures for a seperate goal than the componants were approved for)
pay for the good ones.
who are the good ones? Well they should be able to give you all of their statistics and a few case histories. they should be showing you the pictures of what happens in the complications.
they should make it clear what you are doing, and they should tell you up front their personal limits for correction. for example, my doctor only promised 20/40 (the NYS lmit for driving without glasses) and that any further correction is nice on the first shot, but he would not touch the eyes again (at the time he had never over corrected a single surgery)
my experience and results:
first eye surgery was on my left eye. started at -8.8 which is one of those numbers that the 20/20 scale just gives up on. the astigmatism was half the minimum that the doc would fix. as he said "the only correction I could give you would just turn your astigmatism 90 degrees" given a valium and left to sit in a room till it kicked in. walked in real calm, was led to a chair. they applied a little topical pain killer. they said look at the green ring, get ready for a pinch, and it went dark
some time later, they said, get ready for some light
and there was.
I was let up a few minutes later
went home feeling like I had sand in my eye. I was pretty miserable for the rest of that day and evening. Just before I fell asleep it was merely very teary. I woke up the next morning with vision that continously cleared up through the day. by the next evening I was back to readingt
the right eye was a month later and very similar, the only difference was no feeling of sand, and clear enough for tv watching by the first evening.
random other thoughts. if you have good medical, check whether or not you have a fexible medical spending account. I got to automatically put money away pre tax for the first year and pay the first eye, and then pay the second eye after new year, and pay it off the rest of the year.
aftereffects:
At night, lights are a little brighter and starred, but no significant degradation in functioning.
the priceless aspect came the very first time I woke up before the alarm and the only information I needed was got with a single peek that involved no movement of body out from the covers.
later
Chris
My uncle had it done about 3 or 4 years ago. I don't know if that was the first time he's gotten lazed or not, but he's very happy with the results. He has to wear reading glasses for the really up close stuff, but he's bare-eyeballs for everything else.
He's 90 years old, and still drives. Funny thing though, nobody will ride with him.
I actually just got LASIK surgery today, a few hours before the article was posted. Oh, the eye-ronny WHOA PUN!!! :D
"We are the Dyslexia of Borg. Your ass will be laminated. Futility is resistant."
It worked really well for my grandmother. She is now 81 and has a slew of health problems, but she has great vision, can read w/o glasses, etc.
Just remember that there are potential dangers and side effects (to your health overall not just your eyes) as well as the fact that if it costs you less than contacts/glasses, you might want to invest the money instead.
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nearsighted (you can see near) = - diopters, farsighted (you can see far) = + diopters. I've had lots of people that I know get laser surgery with excellent results, one with bad results. It's not cosmetic to most of them, it's a better quality of life. I've been wearing glasses since I was 7 years old, 40 years ago. I hate glasses and I wore contacts for over 15 years. The only reason that I don't get it done is because I a lot of bench work on fine-pitch surface mount components and my severe nearsightedness (20/1000, -8 diopters) allows me to see VERY close. I know from wearing contacts, I would loose that. So now I'm basically nearsighted AND farsighted. I'm stuck with glasses no matter what I do.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
Three things you probably want to be aware of are:
Good luck with whatever you choose to do. If you're anywhere near Toronto, Ontario, I can recommend Herzig Eye Institute.
But Maaa! Everyone else has a
Some of my friends who are considering lasik are simply waiting until they know that the risk is worth the reward. A good indicator is to just wait until insurance companies offer lasik compensation. It might be a very long time for it to be part of a base plan, but by the time it becomes a common option, you can be sure of this: the insurance companies will trust lasik enough to charge the reasonable amout per month while expecting to pay out less than than that total to the lasiks gone wrong (mostly lawsuits of course, but also to second surgeries/medications). For that to work, lasik will have to be very, very successful. Insurance companies are charging a great deal of Americans, as well as all of our employers, a good deal of money, so you know they've already got the R&D ready to go on this. It's good to follow the advice of the FDA and experts of course, but unless you need your vision corrected now, feel free to wait.
Even if it all goes perfectly, chances are you'll still need glasses for the majority of the remainder of your life anyway: somewhere in your early 40's, it's inevitable that you'll have to get reading glasses.
Overall, I find it hard to understand why anybody would take the risk. I can see very little without my glasses, but so what?
Be careful doing this through mail order. I sent out both of my eyes... only one was returned. Can't even tell if it is mine since I can't see it.
I don't know why this was modded down. Someone didn't moderate properly, imo.
I just had it done and am glad to offer a data dump.
The short answer is that I agree with the other respondents about knowing what you expect to gain and what the risks are. You didn't tell us anything about your current eyesight so it's impossible to offer very constructive advice. But do not go to the lowest bidder --- it's your eyes we're talking about, so go to the best, most experienced surgeon you can find. (One mark of a competent surgeon is that he/she will turn down prospective patients who look like bad risks. Ask what his rejection ratio is.)
My situation was that I was about -5.5 diopters in the left eye (bad but not blind), -1 in the right (just a bit nearsighted), and had been doing fine with regular glasses for many years. But I'm getting to the age where I need bifocals (ugh) and my initial attempt to adapt to them failed completely. The range of angles where I could see clearly at a particular distance was too different between left and right eyes. Contacts would probably have worked, but I have always had this thing about putting things in my eyes, so I didn't want to go that way.
I went to the best surgeon in town, and what he recommended was to operate on only the left eye (I'd not have wished to risk both eyes anyway --- I read the same horror stories on the net as the rest of you) and furthermore *not* to try to bring the left eye to perfect, but to shoot for -1 diopter to align it with the right eye. This made sense to me in terms of wanting bifocals to work, and also he was very candid about pointing out that in case a followup treatment was needed, it would be easier to adjust closer to plano than further away; the surgery can't put back cornea that you've zapped.
BTW, two very crucial measurements that your surgeon should take before accepting you are cornea thickness (too thin means no margin for removal of tissue) and nighttime pupil diameter. The current lasers can only zap a region 8mm across, which is about the average diameter of a dilated pupil. If yours is much wider then you are very likely to have nighttime vision problems after surgery, because the light coming in through the uncorrected outer area will create ghosting, haze, etc. My pupil is right about 8mm and in every other way I was a perfect candidate for surgery.
I'm now about five weeks out from the surgery and I'm a very happy camper. The left eye is corrected to very nearly match the right from distance down to about two feet; and its former astigmatism is just about gone. I do notice some loss of contrast at night, but it's not bad, and I'm not sure I could even tell if I didn't have an unoperated eye to compare to.
Bottom line: understand what you're after, and go to the best doc you can find. Good luck!
The surgery itself is pretty well understood nowadays; I'd view the risk as being fairly low. However, the one key thing that I want to know, which nobody can tell me, is: what are the long term effects? If I get it done now, at 28, what will be the effect on my vision when I'm forty? Fifty? Sixty? Seventy? Eighty? These eyes have to last me another fifty or more years; I don't want to cause myself greater problems down the track.
Another thing to consider: as I understand it, after the surgery, you'll need glasses to read. (This may have changed since last time I looked into it.) If you need to do a lot of reading for your work, the tradeoff may not be worth it.
Ask the questions, and decide for yourself. It's your vision. Not mine. Not the surgeon's. You have the right to decide for yourself whether or not you are prepared to take the risk.
I've read most the responses, and they seem to line up pretty well with the research I did. What isn't mentioned much, however, are the non-vision-related side effects.
I had PRK done 13 months ago -- my corneas were borderline too thin for LASIK (and yes, that is a risk factor). PRK, by the way, is VERY painful, for many days afterwards, which is one of the reasons why LASIK is more popular. It also takes a while for PRK results to clear up and stabilize, so there's no "eureka" moment. On the other hand, with PRK there tends to be less chance for your vision to revert months or years later . . . but I digress.
My surgery went perfectly: my vision (previously 20/100, not too bad really) is now 20/15, I have no fog, no stars at night, and my depth perception has improved -- in short, my vision is as good as it could be. I am, however, afflicted with dry eye syndrome, a very common side effect. It is especially bad in the winter, thanks to central heat, and when I work for long hours at the computer. (!)
The remedy is eye drops, instilled as needed, on some days only a couple times, but on others, a few times an hour. It's important to keep at it, even when you don't feel too bad, because the fine scratches caused by the eyelid dragging across the cornea can cause future problems, including reduced vision quality and increased chance of serious eye conditions.
In the past few months, a new problem has developed: as I sleep, the top surface of my eyeball sometimes glues itself to the inside of my eye socket. When I wake up and blink, that connection is broken, and surface cells from my eyeball are torn away. Needless to say, it's rather painful, and takes hours to really feel better. Why laser surgery would cause this is unknown; the common explanation is that the eye and socket tissues swell up and squish together, and the solution is saline eye drops just before bed, which cause the tissues to shrink. They burn a bit, but they do seem to do the trick.
In short -- I wore gas-permeable contacts for 17 years, and they worked just fine. I love having even better vision now, but I can't say that I spend much less time fiddling with my eyes than before. Successful laser surgery = no more cleaning contacts, no more cleaning/fixing glasses, etc, but laser surgery =! having zero-maintenance eyes.
...my ophthalmologist gets it done.
He still wears glasses. His biggest concern is not the final refractive correction, which is usually very close to 20/20, but that often the ability to resolve details is significantly decreased. This is a big deal for him, being an eye surgeon, and for many other tasks, like reading small fonts on a screen, or resolving other fine details.
That, plus I'm not yet 35 years old, and the info on the long-term effects of these surgeries doesn't go out the 40 or 50 years I'm still planning on needing my eyes....
wrong.
IAAD, and I am short sighted. I need glasses for pretty much everything. (cue formulaic joke).
The current technologies are primative, and if they go wrong, you are completely f@scked.
Also, we have no long term data on how these eye mods go as they get older. With case mods, you just go and get another case.
My eyes are not great, but I have glasses which can correct my vision to 6/5 (we think in metric). I am not prepared to take the risk of irrepairably damaging my eyesight just to ditch two of my four eyes. Don't do it.
[ As an aside, the ophthalmologists who do this sort of operation have a reputation as money grubbing shysters, and grossly oversell the benefits of the operation. All the ones I have met who do this sort of thing are pricks, and I wouldn't go near them. But don't let that put you off. ]
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
I have an RK surgery done back before lasers were used. The doctor used a diamond-edged knife to make the cuts (this type of procedure typically has more problems than the laser ones). That was over 15 years ago. I was highly miopic but have had 20/20 vision over 15 years now.
During that time, I have been hit in the eye and have still had not developed any problems.
For the first few months I had the standard vision fluctuations and problems with seeing at night. After about 3 or 4 years, these problems went away. My vision at night is still not as good as my vision during the day, but whose is?
I had one eye done at a time. Back then, they would not do both eyes at once in case there were complications with the procedure.
I think every person has to weigh the risks for themselves and I am not familiar with the safety of the laser surgery, but I have been told it is safer than what I had.
If it were my choice to do it again, I wouldn't think twice.
I had my surgery done by this man a little over a year ago and couldn't be happier. I had it done when the new "custom view" or wavefront technology was brand new. I had been waiting for around 3 years for the technology to mature, and finally decided it was time. My big concern had always been night vision, as mine had been great in my youth but had degraded significantly over time. Even with contacts/glasses at night I felt somewhat uncomfortable driving, and I didn't want to lose the ability to drive at night completely. I started with glasses in 5th grade, contacts by 7th grade. I had gas-perm, soft, disposable, extended wear, you name it. By the time I had the surgery at 31, I had given up on contacts as being too cumbersome and annoying, and had settled into glasses.
My results? Without question the best money I've ever spent. After a year I still carry around a bottle of eye drops, but I seldom use them more than once every other day or so anymore. I also always wear sunglasses during the day as my eyes are a bit more sensitive to light than they were before, but that's improved as well over the past year. Honestly, even at their worst the light sensitivity and dry eyes were not as big a pain as dealing with contact lenses. If they hadn't improved at all after the surgery I'd still be satisfied.
The biggest thing? My night vision IMPROVED SIGNIFICANTLY over glasses and contacts. I am 20/20 in each eye and around 20/15 with both. I couldn't be happier. As all the others have said, however, research your doctor and don't do it 'on the cheap'.
Are there multiple standards out there, or are parent posters just getting it backwards? E.g., wouldn't 600/20 mean you can see details 600 feet away that most people only get 20 feet away. For the record, I think most posters talking about 20/15 vision are excited about excellent (not subpar) vision.
Back on topic. I have friends who've had laser eye surgery and rave about it; I tend to warn people to think carefully first - do NOT just cross your fingers and assume that your surgery will be free from complications. If you're considering the surgery purely for aesthetic reasons, to "fix" mild myopia, etc. but it isn't going to make any significant change in your life, I'd say skip it. Don't forget that you are risking your sight!
I've had vision problems for most of my life (I'm now 28), and underwent 3 fairly major eye surgeries this year, for cataracts, glaucoma, retinal detachments, etc., most recently this past Wednesday, and things are looking up now (woohoo!), but trust me, it sucks to have dicey vision. I've been able to read (and hence work) most of the time, but I couldn't drive for a while. I'm currently waiting to see how night driving will be with implanted lenses (I'm keeping my fingers crossed, though it's actually useful to have an excuse to *never* be the designated driver!). When I was a kid I was pretty athletic... and ran track through HS and college, since I sucked at any sport involving catching anything.
Summary - diminished vision really does affect your life, and can't be corrected w/ glasses... so make sure you have a valid reason (and experienced doctor) before you risk it. If you're undecided -- just wait a few years. These procedures are still getting better and safer, and more doctors are gaining experience performing them every day.
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
I got lasik a little over a year with, the new wavefront technology that allows something like 450 corrections on a single eye. I got it at the Caster Eye Center in Beverly Hills, http://www.castervision.com/. It was expensive, but well worth it. I have 20/15 and 20/20 vision. No problems at all. No halos at night or any other problems whatsoever.
Now for the first 3 months my eyes were incredibly dry, and I had some strange patterns in lights at night (not halos, actually the laser etch pattern) but that went away completely.
This was the best medical experience I have ever had. It was expensive, but well worth it (well it was a gift actually).
And I recommed going to a reputable doctor, and one who will go back in and do more surgery if necessary for the same price. My doctor would do any additional surgery for no additional charge in the first 18 months, including if the correction just wasn't enough.
My only complaint period was when they first did it my vision was 20/10, and it sucked losing 20/10, but I can't complain about 20/15 and 20/20 so...
I assume you don't have enough money to create an implanted optical interface.
Well, I have absolutely nothing to add to the Lasik conversation. I do have a semi-on-topic question, though: I wear glasses now, this is a fairly recent thing. They're not very strong as my vision's not that bad. I was just curious, what about contacts? A friend of mine mentioned contacts that you can wear for weeks at a time. Anybody wear those? Are contacts (in general) worth it considering my biggest complaint about glasses is they keep getting smudged?
"Derp de derp."
Thailand... hmm. I'm not really sure I want to have eye surgery there, when you consider...
What happens in Bangkok stays in Bangkok!
Muhahaha.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
How will you conceal your secret identity?
Remember... ZG9uJ3QgZm9yZ2V0IHRvIGRyaW5rIHlvdXIgb3ZhbHRpbmU=
blue is a shorter wavelength (400 - 450 nm) than red (650-700nm). Blue would likely focus in front of the retina, although I'm not sure how significant that effect is.
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
No glasses needed at all. I get no halos at night. I do get a headache sometimes from lights at night, but I got that before so no obvious connection.
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Watch Pitch Black and use Riddick's solution:
Just offer a doctor a carton of cigarettes when you are locked away in an intergalatic prison.
He will then give you a "shine-job."
You may never be able to see the light of day again,
but you sure wont get any of these night "halos" everyone has been talking about.
Give "Focus Night & Day" contacts a try first, you may be happy with them. I know I am.
I thought there were a lot of things they didn't really tell me before I had mine done. I had mine done about 1.5 years ago and I still have problems with dry eyes.
You are the guinnea pig, so let us know how it turns out. As the FDA says ... dont consider the surgery if you are not a risktaker :)
The guy I went to had done over 10K procedures (maybe a lot more, I forget.) So he was the most experienced surgeon in town. And he was good, no question. But the downside was that the way he had gotten to that high a number was by turning all phases of the process into a production line. On the days he operated, he would do 20+ procedures in a morning. There were two beds in the operating room, and while one patient was processed, the other was swapped out.
Nothing went seriously wrong for me, though I did twitch the first time from being under-sedated. But anytime things are moving that fast there is a risk of error. Consumate skill can let a team recover from lots of problems, but....
So while you should always get an experienced surgeon, you have to consider all the angles.
YMMV.
I don't have much to add to the excellent posts I've seen already, but I'll chip in with my own two cents on my experience. I had Lasik done in September '01.
Simply, the surgery itself was not painful, but it was one of the flat-out freakiest experiences of my life. That said, I wish I had it done sooner.
I wore glasses for ~18 years -- never was able to do contacts. My blink reflex is freakishly good; I've frequently had eye doctors cursing at me trying to get eyedrops in, much less contacts. Going from all that time wearing thick-ass glasses to nothing was amazing.
Recovery wasn't bad. I had halos at night for maybe a month and haven't since. No other undesired side effects. I had to walk myself home after the surgery and that wasn't a problem -- I was photosensitive, but in shades I could see plenty well enough to navigate even immediately afterwards.
You end up taking joy in stupid little things. Swimming, for example. I'd never invested in prescription goggles, so anytime I was swimming I was just about blind. I'd swim into people, boats, side of the pool, etc. because I just couldn't see that shit in time to stop. It's sad in some way that I was fascinated for weeks just to be able to see the cruddy crap at the bottom of a pool, but there it is.
There are risks, of course, and I can't say I didn't spend some time making peace with the idea of what I'd have to do if I ended up blind. I spent considerably more time doing research and finding a good surgeon. This is not something you want to cut corners on. Cheaper is not necessarily better.
It's worth doing because the freedom of being able to see clearly unassisted is an amazing thing. Additionally, especially you can't or don't want to do contacts, people see you amazingly differently without glasses. That's superficial, of course, but, there it is.
I had laser eye surgery done about 2 months ago. I went from having a prescription from of -10.5 and -11 to 20/25 vision in 10 minutes. Since the surgery my eye sight has continued to improve. The procedure was painless and the post-op consisted only of an eye drop regiment for 1 week with artificial tears afterwards. The only downside is that your eyes can't effectively produce tears afterwards for a while but artifical tears can take care of that until they heal.
I couldn't get contact lenses because my eyes are so sensitive (read: I'm a pussy) that I don't dare let anything touch them. I tried for hours to put on contacts and always failed. I saw the surgery clinic while I was in the neighborhood, figured I could go in and ask questions...and next thing you know I'm scheduled for surgery 45 minutes later.
The problem was that I still had very sensitive eyes: the doctor couldn't do the proper surgery where a machine "readies" your eye. This surgery only takes a couple of hours of convalescence. Instead he had to grate my eyes with a knife (he puts something in them to prevent you from feeling anything) and I had to keep my eyes fully closed for 3 days until my mutant healing powers kicked in. Fortunately it was during summer and I had no job or social obligations (har har).
One year later, my vision hasn't weakened, despite heavy gaming and use of the PC. This was without doubt the only personal expense I ever paid that benefitted me. I don't regret it one bit and urge everyone to go for it.
My brother is in the military and got the surgery for free...before that he was at a 2.75 prescription.
He hasn't complained about any problems, and didn't have any complications.
A recent study found that most problems with laser eye sugery was related to humidity. I believe high humidty resulted in bad results. The corrolation was very high, and statistically siginificant. Use google to read the actual study results (which are in the public domain). Best results were people who lived in a cold climate having the operation during the winter.
Directly shaping the cornea just like Lasik but without the epithelium flap is also called PRK.
Greetings, eh?
Just a quick note, really. Get yourself a good opthamologist and get a set of corneal maps done. I have reasonably bad astigmatism in both eyes and the maps (along with careful study of the eyes themselves) revealed that I have several clinical symptoms for keratoconus.
Simply described, keratoconus is when your cornea decides (for whatever reason) that it'd be happier in a cone shape rather than a spherical shape.
After I found out about this, my opthamologist, optometrist, and optician all agreed that there is no way in Hell I should be having lasre eye surgery to correct my vision. I've seen my maps and instead of a smooth, hill-like surface, each eye resembles a mountain range - steep on one side, with a big drop off towards the centre, with a large smooth portion along half of my eye. Pretty bizarre.
Fortunately, my opthamologist (Dr. Joseph Leong-Sit of Edmonton, AB) and optician (Jim Thompson of Edmonton, AB), had worked with keratoconus cases before. Thanks to their combined experience, I'm wearing Rose-K RGP contact lenses that have given me 20/20 vision in one eye and 20/15 vision in the other. Sure, it's a little blurry and "halo-y" at times, but it was the best option. At least until I turn 45-50 years old and the gradual deterioration of my cornea becomes so bad that I'll need a corneal replacement. Yep, looking forward to that! ^)_(^
I'm glad I had the maps done and I think it's a worthwhile expense for anyone looking to get this type of surgery.
Ja ne, eh?
--
Beej
Brendan "Beej" Dery "Only in Canada, eh?"
After operation I could see 100% perfectly, everything looked sharper than ever (even with glasses). In dark my vision isn't that good (but still ok) and there's sometimes small halos around bright objects. I could imagine that people how do lot of driving during nighttime might not want to take surgery (if it goes very badly and ruins your night vision).
But now (2004) my right eye has gone from 0.0 to -2.0. This seems to vary somewhat and depends partly on lighting of surroundings. My left eye is still ok (+0.50). My brain seems to do good job at giving very good combined vision (my other eye is + and other is -).
So I can see perfectly in everyday life but I'm planning to buy glasses to use when I'm reading or using computers for long periods of time. This causes quite much eye strain to my right eye (no problems with left eye).
is that where its all red and you can barely hold your eyes open?
a few of my friends do this "420" eyes thing that you speak of.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
I'd gladly give it up to be rid of glasses, though. For me the worst part about glasses is chromatic aberration, which produces rainbow fringes that get progressively worse as you look away from straight ahead. At 45 degrees from straight ahead it gets difficult to read a computer screen, and fine details are lost completely near the edges of the lenses.
Here is a link, 50 Tough Questions For Your Doctor and another link explaining Wavefront
I did it about four years ago. Now the technology has advanced further but back then it was still good. I did it because I can't wear contacts (soft or hard). The hard contacts drive me nuts, I can feel them. The soft contacts I destroy all the time by tearing them as I took them out. I could see without glasses but most my ability to see details were lost without them. Grass was nothing but a green sheet. The slight stigmatism didn't help either.
I was afraid of the surgery since I had heard a horror story from an individual who did it before me. What happened to him was that his eyes had reacted badly to the surgery and he lost his sight for the better part of a year. The fluid in his eyes became a milky white. I later learned that that sort of thing can happen if an infection enters your eyes. When I aksed the doctor how this could happen he told me that white cells went in to the fluid to combat the infection and the reason he got it was that he probably didn't use the drops properly that he was given afterwards.
I did the surgery. It corrected the bad sight and slight stigmatism I had. It felt like sand was put in to my eyes right after the surgery. I was given antibiotic drops and anti-inflamatory drops to put in my eyes and a shield to tape on as I sleep so I don't rub. My eyes were corrected to 20/10 in both and the stigmatism is gone. No halos. The only side effect, I have to wet my eyes with Refresh every once in a while on really dry days, big deal. I see perfectly and have no problems. Best decision I made.
If you are going to do the surgery don't forget to ask the doctor as much as you can about the procedure. The more information you get the more at ease you'll feel about it. Follow his directions on the day of the procedure and everything will be fine.
Specks
Batteries not included
There has been lots of good info here!
I have been thinking about doing the same, but when my eye-doctor(Sorry can't think of the correct term) told my a bit more in detail what is does, I decided that wearing glasses is just fine. The fact that the cornea gets cut in order to "shape" a better focal point scares the hell out of me. Any time you take something like that away you can't replace it. Another interesting thing he mentioned is that even if you get the surgery and get 20/20 or better, when you get around 50 your still going to need reading glass--it just human nature for our bodies to get a little rusty. But as mentioned before the surgery is great for people who have very bad vision, even if the correction leads to a weakened prescription.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Indian(Asia) and oriental corneas are thin and therefore success rate is about 80-85% in Asia. In case of europe/Americas(Caus) the cornea is thick therefore success rate is more. But i am really amazed at the cost. In India if you go to the best hospital and get it done from a doc whose done 1000+ surgeries it will cost you about 700$ inclusive of all costs! And this i am talking the best. A doc with 20-30 years of exp.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
...burning hair. I remember thinking that it was odd to smell that. I was expecting something (from tales from other people), but not something so similar to burning hair.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
A. RK, PRK, Lasik, etc.
B. Castration (removes the ROOT cause of bad eyesight, right?).
John Kerry is a Joke!
First of all talk to your optomerist and get professional advice. Secondly, have you thought of trying Ciba Vision's Night and Day (http://www.nightanddaycontacts.com/), J&J Accuvue2 (http://www.jnjvision.com/products/acuvue2.html )or B&L Purevision (http://www.bausch.com/in/vision/products/purevisi on.jsp ) extended wear contact lenses? They're contact lenses you leave in your eye 24 hours a day for 1-4 weeks at a time (your optomerist will help you decide how long is best for your eyes). It might be something you want to try for a year or so until your confident with laser surgery.
Also check if anyone who actually works in your chosen laser surgery centre has actually used their own services. Most opticians I know wouldn't have laser surgery done on themselves.
...but I read that it was a common side-effect of surgery, and it's one that I experienced myself.
Sunlight sensitivity. Following corrective surgery, I am EXTREMELY sensitive to sunlight. Even on an overcast day, I have to wear sunglasses or I'm uncomfortable. I knew to get sunglasses beforehand, anticipating this (and I've read from some eye doctors who say that you should wear UV-protective sunglasses outdoors all the time anyway, even if you haven't had surgery).
Bright artifical lights aren't an issue, so it's not the quantity of light that does it, it's just something about sunlight. If you're going for laser surgery, get a nice pair of sunglasses.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
My wife had the surgery done about two years ago. She had pretty bad astigmatism with some myopia (never walked more than a few feet without putting on her glasses). Her vision improved to 20/15 in both eyes almost immediately (6 hours) after the surgery, and has stabilized at 20/20.
The major factor in her success was her REGULAR eye doctor was completely up-to-date on the procedure and all of its risks, required her to have several pre- and post-operative visits and preperations, and knew not only who was a good candidate for the surgery, but also knew who was NOT.
She is delighted, and had no complications. I think that is because we did not go to a chop-shop that advertises in the Sunday comic section. It was expensive, but totally worth it!
Good luck!
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
I was finally to the point of having some money saved up for laser surgery. On a regular checkup, my eye doc suggested the Focus Night & Days and gave me a free sample pack. It took me a week or so to get used to blinking a little more because they let so much more air into your eyes but after that, life is terrific. Now I've never really had much of problems with my eyes to begin with (except for some floaters recently, damn old age) but with the Night & Days I literally put them in and forget about them. I actually put reminders on my PDA once a month so I don't forget. And I've always been guilty of rubbing my eyes--I used to fold up a contact or lose it in my eye pretty often before. The Night & Days fit so good, I haven't had this problem yet in over a year. Of course they are more expensive, but still less than surgery. I figure it just doesn't make sense to undergo a surgery (which always has some risk even if it's been pretty mimimalized by now) when I can see perfectly and never have any problems.
Vote Quimby.
As a side note I have -5 -5.5 and have thought about this as lenses are costly and glasses are a nuisance. BUT now I see slightly bad (still able to read in bed without lenses or see a computer screen if I sit really close). Being blind seems infinitly worse.
Earlier this week a guy asked me if the busdriver was inside the bus he wanted. Apparantly he could see the bus and the number on it but enough to see the driver. The bus was empty as the driver had gone to get a snack.
Anyway he asked some more questions like that how many people in that car and such. His eyes looked ugly white (kinda like the horror version of geordi eyes) and he seemed to use a rounded small mirror on the end of a stick that he waved in small movements in front of his eyes.
I am raised to "not stare" so didn't ask him what kinda of handicap he had but my contact lenses certainly don't seem so much of a handicap. He is the third blind regular (presumbly working in the area) I seen at that station. 1 blind with stick and 1 with guide dog (pretty sure they are totally blind as I helped both when trains were detoured). At another station I felt kinda cheated when a girl with guidedog asked me for help and then once inside the train opened a normal book and started to read. Was before I learned that some people can only see in a tiny area of their vision. Enough to read but not enough to hurriedly board an unfamiliar train arriving on the wrong platform. Guess guidedogs can't read platform signs.
So with lenses I pretty much got perfect vision. While the laser could have me walking with a guide dog or wondering if that is a seat or a busdriver or tapping the ground for the specially ribbed tiles on the floor and hope no asshole has put his bike in the way. No thanks.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
.. all the people who have really bad stories about laser eye surgery probably aren't seeing this discussion.
I had PRK 2 years ago. The difference between Lasik and PRK? Way Way Way more painful and way way longer to heal.
With both operations, they need to get under the top of your cornea, to where it is 'hard', to shape it with the laser. With Lasik, they cut your top 'soft' cornea 3/4 of the way through, flip it over, laser underneath it, flip the cornea back over, your cornea heals to itself, and you are watching TV the next day. (My friend was watching IMAX).
With PRK, they remove the top of your cornea, laser it, and let your body regrow the top, over a period of 3 months or so. Oh, and also, it is INSANELY painful. Tears pouring down your face for hours, until you pass out...They have basically exposed your nerve ending...really painful, though they put a 'bandage' floating contact on it, to dull the pain a bit. Oh yeah, and it takes 3 months at least to fully heal (mine was longer). The first 2 weeks were spent in the dark...any light was painful. I had thick blankets over every window. By the 4th week I could read a font that was basically 1/3 my laptop screen. Did I mention the 4 days of excrutiating pain? When women talk about pregnancy being a pain men could never endure, I just laugh and laugh.
Why use PRK and not Lasik? It all has to do with corneal thickness. If your cornea is too thin, they can't cut the top to flip it over, to do Lasik, they have to take it off for PRK....
Bottom line, it worked, I don't have to wear glasses, my eyes are a bit drier, (I guess, I don't really notice, and I don't have to use drops anymore, but it can be a side effect...no worse than contacts, (a whole lot better as a matter of fact)). Would I do it again? Yes, but, for instance, there is a slight blur in my 20/20 vision. I would not go back to correct it. I can live with it. If it was worse, I would correct it, but it would have to be something I couldn't live with to go through that pain again.
Something to know: 95% of the population need reading glasses between 39 and 45. Your cornea thickens up, and your muscles cannot bend the lens to focus close up. So, it is not like you are correcting your vision for life.
My Obligatory advice: use the drops and keep the eyes moist while healing. The antibiotics are important, but so are the moisturizers...I didn't use the moisture drops enough, and my cornea healed onto the bandage contact...was painful removing it, let me tell you...
Me
I did PRK, the predecessor to LASIK, over 12 years ago, and still love it.
After reading about LASIK, I personally would not do it. It does more damage to the eye than PRK. PRK takes longer to heal, but it has much less risk of infection.
Even though I too am considering laser eye surgery, I have this to think about:
My mom burst a blood vessel in one of her eyes. Upon examination the eye doctor suggested laser surgery to correct her slight near sightedness. Today, my mom can not see out of her right eye because the doctor accidentally burned her cornea on that side. Upon completion of the left eye surgery she now sees worse than before the surgery. In fact, she can no longer drive a car or see at night.
Even though the new techniques have come along and the process is more and more automated, there are still those who know next to nothing about performing eye surgery. Yet they are allowed to practice this art only because they got a degree in some profession or other. Hopefully not in basket weaving but in being an opthamologist. Even then, as seen on 60 minutes, 20/20, Primetime, and other shows - you have to be careful because most of the time the doctors have only practiced on ----- oranges. That's right - fruit is the preferred object to practice the art of laser eye surgery on.
As also shown on these shows, you have to ask (and in some cases demand) to not only talk to those the doctor helped, but those the doctor did not help. Get to know both the good as well as the bad aspects of what the doctor has done. It is within your right to ask for how many people have been harmed by the doctor as well as helped. The doctor might refuse to let you know but you then have the right to refuse to let him tinker with your eyeballs as well.
And as for my mom - well, she sits at home now with the TV on. She says it is like in her youth when you listened to the radio. She can't really see the screen very well anymore. But she doesn't want to sue the doctor either. "It wasn't really his fault," she says. "It was just an accident." Yeah. Right. Just an accident she has to live with the rest of her life.
Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke.
First off, realize that the American health industry is like the software industry- they'd much sooner sell you something additional rather than teach you how to use the features in the software you already own.
With that in mind, realize that we as humans have been evolving for hundreds of thousands, even millions, of years. In software terms, we're probably past version 500000.5. Imagine how much you could develop software in that amount of time.
We already have every feature built into us that we need to improve our eyesight.
With all that in mind, research methods that show you how to strengthen the muscles in your eyes, and hence improve your eyesight naturally- without using anything "extra" besides spending the time to do it. Think of it as learning the underpinnings of UNIX vs. the GUI of Windows.
Bates Method
Right now I am using a videotape called Yoga for the Eyes, where I do about 25 minutes worth of eye strengthening each session. Granted, I'm supposed to do it every day, and it's pretty difficult, but I already see more clearly (3 weeks with 4 full / 7 partial sessions) without the use of my contact lenses. Also, people have commented on how my eyes look brighter and my face looks younger. Something definitely worth checking out.
. These guys are on the cutting edge of both 3D body art and cybernetics, so its only a matter of time~
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. Robert Nesta Marley
I think you've hit-upon a key point. If your eyesight is so bad that you're effectively blind without glasses (incapacitated), I would think that it's a fair chance to take.
If your eyesight is so bad that you are effectively blind without glasses, you are already at a significant risk for serious uncorrectable vision problems down the road. The last thing you want to do is add even more risk into the mix by having your eyes operated on unnecessarily. Correcting a botched surgery may leave you with reduced vision but still functioning. But if your vision ends up reduced from both a botched surgery plus other problems, you may end up being effectively blind.
I know that a local company doing the laser correction does a "no touch" technique where they use the laser exclusively without the microkeratome so no foreign objects touch the optical surface of your eye - apparently it provides a smoother finished surface with less chance of issues at night.
I'm not completely up on the history of this kind of surgery, but that may actually be an older and less desirable technique. As I recall, the problem with just doing the surface is that it destroys a layer of cells that doesn't grow back, and there have been concerns that that layer of cells might actually be needed in the long run. Since nobody has lived with this kind of surgery for decades, it's impossible to know. I believe that's one reason why laser surgery got combined with a microkeratome: by removing cells from the inside, you leave the outermost layer undisturbed (well, except for the incision).
I spent a while waiting on the procedure and watching some of the research. Eventually decided to go see a laser surgeon about it. (This was also right around when my long-time eye doctor had started talking more positively about the procedure).
My vision was -4 in each eye, roughly -- so bad, but not REALLY bad.
As far as the night halos go, what the doctor told me was that one of the big advances was that they had become better at determining whether you'd suffer bad halos -- and they wouldn't do the procedure on you. The CEO of my company was turned down for the op for that reason.
Actual day of the procedure: you go in, they put a lot of drops in your eyes to kill off germs and numb your eyes. In actuality, you start the anti-biotic drops a couple of days early...they want to kill off as much as possible.
They sit you in the chair, do the cuts and you stare at the blurry red light. You hear the zapping and smell the burning flesh. In my case, they never offered me anything like valium although I've heard from other friends that they had that as an option.
You go home that day with big blinder sunglasses on. Every hour or so after that, you put hydration drops in.
For the next week or two, you'll be putting hydration drops, antibiotics, and a steroid that slows the inflammation and healing process in the eye -- they want the eye to heal without scar tissue. You'll also be wearing eye protection at night to keep you from rubbing your eyes.
In my case, one eye wasn't responding well enough to the steroid and they put me on a stronger one. My understanding was that this is a "typical" problem that happens about 1 in 50. The stronger stuff worked fine.
For at LEAST the first two weeks or so, your night vision is just awful. I drove a couple of times, but I'd recommend having someone else drive you if you can. However, by the next day, I was able to drive during the day without any problems. Make sure you have a good set of sunglasses.
After two to three weeks, your eyes have mostly healed to where they'll be. When I did the procedure, they normalized to 20/15 ish.
After two to three months, my night vision had mostly stabilized, although I'd notice a bit of haloing if I went from very bright to very dim light abruptly. For the first 6 months to a year, I kept a constant set of eye drops around, because my eyes would often feel dry -- but a lot less problems then I had with contacts, that's for sure. ( I went for lasik because my eyes really started rejecting contacts)
3 years later, my vision is probably closer to 20/20. My night vision is unimpaired, I don't notice any real problems. I don't really use any drops or anything like that these days other than what I'd expect to be normal eye irritation.
These days, with the new wavelet procedure, they can do a better job of mapping out the program to correct your eye, so your change of getting better than 20/20 vision is very high.
So, take this as you will, but I'd definitely do the procedure again if I had to. I love being able to scuba or hike or do other sports without needing glasses.
The first two weeks after the procedure, you'll really hate life with the not quite healed eyes and all the drops, but really, it does get better! I was doing some work within 4 days of the surgery.
Like any sort of surgery, check into your doctor ahead a time, get references, and so on.
In the Bay Area, my doctor was Dr. Scott Hyver, and I'd definitely recommend him.
that's not funny. i have nightmares about this happening all the time. if there was a nuclear war i'm pretty sure it would be difficult to get a new pair of gas permeable hard contacts.
I'll never forget his comment about having shower, something along the lines of:
First time I had a shower w/o glasses after the surgery I thought: "OMG! I can see my it!" - apparently he couldn't see it before. :)
"I don't mind God, it's his fan club I can't stand!" E8
I'm reasonably comfortable with the technology now - I know that a local company doing the laser correction does a "no touch" technique where they use the laser exclusively without the microkeratome
I found a couple of references:
A comparison between PRK, LASIK, and LASEK.
A discussion of Bowman's layer
so no foreign objects touch the optical surface of your eye
That sounds like marketing speak. Think about it: a laser erodes the surface of your cornea ("eye"), resulting in what amounts to a massive wound, left to heal while exposed to the dust and dirt of the outside world.
apparently it provides a smoother finished surface with less chance of issues at night.
Apart from any concerns over the long-term effects, larger risk of complications with non-flap techniques is apparently why the flap techniques were introduced.
I've had this done years ago (I was one of the first ones to have astigmatism corrected as part of the surgery, and I'm very happy with it. However, I've done some research:
;-).
- it works best if you have to do a large correction (I went from -5 to -0.25), results decline in accuracy the smaller the correction
- the quality of treatment resides in three factors: (1) accuracy of measurement (duh), (2) accuracy of offset (they need to assess the regrowth to counter that in the surgery) and (3) quality of care (especially after you MUST make sure you have the aftercare taken care of).
The 'trick' in eye surgery is that they actually slightly delay the healing process to ensure you end up with a correction, left alone the eye tends to try and correct (i.e. undo) the damage..
I would strongly advise you to see if you can interview a number of ex patients of the clinic you choose (two weeks 'after' and half a year 'after'). Not all problems show until about half a year later. And yes, you WILL become more light sensitive, a bit like when you have not had enough sleep. So nothing new there then
Good luck!
Insert
You get what you pay for. I got all the latest bells and whistles in technology. The wavefront/intralase/etc. There are always risks, but at the Mann Eye Institute (I *seriously* reccomend) here is what happend.
;)
Note: I am nearsighted and have really bad astigmatism in one eye.
1) Called up, setup an appointment to get the initial exam. After much poking, blinking, looking, dripping, and various other annoyingly uncomfortable tasks it was decided I was an excellent canidate and the best method of correction was decided. This took by far the largest amount of time and many people did many things that day. Went home.
2) Day before surgery started some eye drops to help prevent infection afterwards.
3) Surgery day, came and I arrived a half hour early. Final poking and prodding was done as well as a secondary inspection and notations were made. They also drew little things on my eyes to help them during surgery... I believe this was to insure my eyes did not rotate any.
4) I was taken and given a final inspection by Dr. Mann to insure all was well. All was.
5) A nurse took me across from the glassed in surgery bay and prepared me for surgery. Shoes get booties, hair net installed, no beard net required (thankfully), and some iodine and such to clean around the eye.
6) I wait a short time and am lead through the door to the interlase machine. I am laid down on the rather comfortable chair as they get all the stuff.
7) My eyes are numbed and then vaccume cup things are put on. First my right eye, rather uncomfortable but mainly just the mental image of my eye being sucked out.
7b) Ooops! Ran into problems here.
A) While the right eye cup went on fine, the left eye did not wish to cooperate. Oh... and one other things. For whatever reason the numbing drops seemed to not work quite well.
B) a couple of failed attempts at getting a seal around the vac cup were made... then the third one.
C) Ieeee! The pain is unimaginable. I hurt my thigh muscles wrapping around the chair. I nearly ripped the head off the teddy bear they handed to me. I hurt beyond feeling. They noticed this and aborted very quickly. The pain was such that I was near passing out.
D) Dr. Mann appeared. First thing he stated was for them to apply numbing drops. They replied it had been done very much due to my lack of response. A stronger type of numbing drop was applied. They allowed time for me to no longer be attempting to tear heads off of bears and tried to strike up some conversation.
E) After a short time the left eye was done with no pain this time and was then zapped with the intralase. (Which I might randomly add had the exact appearance of having the spaceship from close encounters of the 3rd kind land on your eyeball.)
8) The intralase was successful besides the problem with the pain in the left eye. I had settled down. They guided me across the small room to the lasik machine and sat me down.
9) This was much easier. About the most discomfort was the bright white light being projected on my eye. Green center laser, lots of red laser lights, piles of white leds. Was told exactly what to do and what was happening. No problems occured here.
10) Was helped up and plastic shields were taped onto my head over my eyes. Was lead out of the room.
11) I can't remember exactly what happend after that as the 5mg (small amount) of Valium had started kicking in. My dad drove me home, I slept the entire way. Got home, went to bed. Put the various eye drops in as scheduled as well.
It is now 9 days after surgery and I have had two scheduled followup visits. Everything is healing fine and the haze following surgery has cleared up well. While I still have some haze, it is clearing up. The most annoying thing is 8 rainbow strips, but that was expected and is clearing up rapidly as well.
As of 7 days after the surgery I was seeing at 20/15 vision in both eyes.
Overall, it was an excellent experience and the support t
I talked with an optician who convinced me I would sacrifice some of my vision when I get older.
I'm now 33 with about -4.0 in both eyes. I can read a book without glasses. LASIK (or similar) would most likely give me good vision, but as I get older my ability to focus will degrade. Meaning I would most likely need two pair of glasses - one for reading and another pair for general use. Without the operation I should manage with just this pair as I get older.
"Are you _really_ that uncomfortable with your glasses?", he asked.
I guess I wasn't.
I wouldn't let anyone cut on my eyes with a knife, or laser no matter how "safe" it is. My eyes are my LIFE, and I take my eyesight as the most precious gift I have. My job requires me to see extremely fine detail. I have past the age of 44, and this year had to get bifocals, which take a little getting use to. I had "lazy eye" when I was 8, so my left eye muscles didn't get as healthy as they should. I've been wearing glasses since I was 8, I"m use to it, look wierd without them. Are they a pain? Not really. Are they safe? In my line of work, I've had over the course of 23 years had numerous run ins with parts of machines flying off, debris getting on my glasses, and that saved my sight! I wouldn't give any amount of money, even if it was free to have anyone cutting on my eyes unless I was legally blind! As long as I can correct my eyesight with glasses, so be it. I talked to my eye doctor this year about lasik, because he does it, and I'm against it. He said that the doctors in his practice "had" to get into it, because the hospital wanted the revenue from it, but he tries not to bring it up unless asked, as he thinks the risks at this time in the maturity level of the field, aren't worth it.
I would recommend the procedure. I had it done when I was eighteen years old. My vision was so bad I think I qualified as legally blind. I am now 27, and I have not experienced any difficulties. No halos at night and no discomfort. The cost of the surgery back then was about $5000. The only thing I didn't like was the doctor who performed the surgery. I had read about him, Dr. Ellis, before selecting him and he seemed more than qualifed. He was a bit of an ass.
I've heard that people with blue eyes should really consider the light sensitivity issue. I don't know how I'd manage, since my sunlight sensitivity is pretty high now, and I have brown eyes.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
[Bart and Ralph ring Flander's doorbell.]
[Ned answers the door. He's wearing dark glasses and carrying a cane.]
Ned: Jesus? Is that you?
Ralph: Mr. Flanders, you're blinded-ded!
Ned: Oh, yeah. I never should have had that trendy laser surgery. It was
great at first but, you know, at the ten-year mark your eyes fall out.
First of all: this is not about me, but it's the story of a friend of mine. Unfortunately, he died about two years ago (not related to this surgery), so he is not in a position to tell his story. As I'm not that much into laser corrections and all those 20/20 numbers (what do they mean?), there could be some errors in my story.
This guy wasn't really blind (I believe he had -5 or something) and he used to wear contact lenses. Some day, he decided to do that surgery, since he hoped to be able to do without contacts. He would do one eye at the time, but the idea was to do both eyes in one year since that was cheaper (something with taxes or insurancies I think). Anyway, after he had one eye done, he had the halos and bad night vision I read in other stories and his vision was not really clear and sharp yet. He had to do that eye again, but after the second operation, he got an infection in his eye that was really hard to cure and his eye was always red with blood. Overall, it took him more than one year for that one eye, so the total costs for both eyes would be higher (as the tax or insurance trick wouldn't work anymore).
Unfortunately, he is dead now (due to something unrelated to his eye surgeries), so I don't know if his eye infection would be cured and if he ever would be able to see perfectly without contacts or glasses, but I know I would never do such surgeries if there are safe alternatives (like contacts and glasses) as there is always the possibility that things go horribly wrong and you would end up seeing worse than you did before (and, as someone above me already said, glasses can be ugly perhaps, but they are protective as well; they've already saved me a few times from becoming possibly blind when some objects were approaching my eyes at a very high speed).
And yes, my eyes only need minor correction (-1; I can see perfectly without glasses when I'm indoor), so I don't really know how much troubles one has if he has -13 or something like that, but I think I would aways prefer the safe way of glasses and contacts.
A friend of my brothers who is an opthalmic surgeon says that he would never have it done because of the risks - mind you he depends on his own eyesight to earn his keep.
Laser surgery is a good option if you've got quite bad eyesight; however, there are risks involved, as with any surgery. The risk might be negligible, but it's still a risk - even 'simple' procedures like wart removal can end poorly.
I'd like to let you know, however, that there's an alternative to getting lasik surgery that works quite well - therapy. It is basically free once you figure out how to do it yourself. My story is this:
When I was younger (middle school age), I had an old optomitrist prescribe glasses for me which had prisms in them, as my frequent (constant) reading had resulted in my left eye's muscles constricting, and pulling my left eye inwards. This elderly doctor told us that it was because of a 'weak eye' and not due to the constriction of muscles. I have my suspicions that he was years behind contemporary practice, as we lived in the boondocks at the time. At least he was a nice man. Hopefully God will take that into account during his sentencing, that's all I can hope for him.
At any rate, this glasses perscription ended up agrevating the situation. In addition to the prisms, the perscription was what I would call excessive - it was perscribed to make my vision as good as possible, not to make my vision acceptable for me to function, which would have been a significantly lower. Some of you might be thinking: that's common practice. As far as I know, this much, at least, is common practice as well.
My understanding of why such practice is bad, is: it results in eyes that are overly stressed. You become used to it after a while, of course - just as you would any minor malody, over time - but it's still damaging your eyes by stressing your eye to conform to the new perscription - stressing your eyes, causing them to get worse, as such a 'perfect' resolution isn't necessary. I don't recall the technical aspects, but that's the general idea.
This pattern of "get new, thicker glasses with prisms with a larger angle" continued until I was a freshman in high school. At that point, I couldn't even read things right in front of my face without glasses, and my left eye was functionally useless, as I pretty much did everything with my right eye - the left eye had the prism over it, and tired me out too much, so my brain decided to not use that eye. (I know tihs know in retrospect and current observations of how my eyes work). I was quite stressed out, constantly got frustrated with my glasses and my visual situation, so my parents decided to see what they could do about it.
At the time (1997, I think), the only specialists in the country, as far as I can recall, that dealt with such things were in Philidelphia and LA. Yes, that's quite sparse, and I realize that many of you are thinking "that's because they're quacks", but my experience has proven to me otherwise: we went to the specialist in Phili, and he did various therapy techniques that drastically decreased my general feelings of stress and tension. A wonderful side effect of the decreased tension and stress was that I no longer could even wear the glasses I'd been perscribed without a significant amount of pain. My vision without the glasses had improved significantly in a matter of two days, simply by doing exercises which relaxed and stretched my eye muscles.
To this day, I wear the same glasses perscription I got after returning from that trip - just good enough so that I'd be able to legally drive. It's not strong enough to give me clarity at distances, but it's good enough for the time being. If I were to actually continue the therapy and exercises as I was supposed to, then I'd surely have much better vision, but I have a hard time motivating myself to do so. On the occasions when I find the motivation to do them (they're relatively tiring), I can notice a marginal increase in my visual accuity.
Another way to improve your vision is to wear reading glasses (+1 or +2, or a special perscription if your farsighted pescription isn't too strong) when you don't need clarity to function, as
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
First off, don't go for the person who is the cheapest. Find the most experienced doctor you can get. An inexperienced doctor can easily do massive, irreversible damage to your eyesight. Nothing is worth that risk.
;)
I went from about 20/600 in each eye to 20/25 and 20/50. That's the good part. I have a light astigmatism in my left eye, and a medium one in my right eye. Great for daily activities that don't involve reading. The astigmatism causes a double image (within each individual eye) that makes text a little bit difficult to see properly. I also have the halos around bright lights at night that are common among lasik patients. I often find myself squinting while driving at night. I had dryness and itchyness for 6 months, and needed to use eyedrops. My eyes still feel dry a bit more than they used to. I still have a pair of glasses for reading the computer screen and tabletop gaming.
It was a highly unpleasant procedure. They keep your eye wide open with a speculum for 10-15 minutes. You get local anesthetic drops for your eye, but you can still feel the pressure of what they are doing to your eyes. The keratome (that cuts the protective layer of your eye) is attached via suction and causes you to temporarily lose vision. You get the closest possible view of them slicing the protective layer of your eye, and then peeling it back like a bedsheet, causing your vision to blur. Then you have to intently follow a red dot while a laser burns your cornea down to the desired shape. It smells like burning hair. And since your nose is about an inch away, it's very strong. Afterwards, they have to lay the protective layer back down so that it lays flat. It naturally sticks to the cornea, so if it's not laid down perfectly the first time, the doctor may have to peel it back and put it down again. Perhaps several times. Now do the other eye. If you're looking to get both eyes up to 20/25 or better, then you should expect to come back in 6 months and do it all again.
Some bad reasons to get lasik surgery:
Save money on glasses/contacts. You will most likely still need to own a pair of glasses for the rest of your life.
Want perfect vision. Your vision with glasses or contacts is most likely better than lasik will be capable of.
Don't like the way you look with glasses. Try contact lenses.
Some good reasons to get lasik.
Don't like the way you look with glasses, and you have problems wearing contact lenses. (me)
You have very bad vision and can't really do anything until you get your glasses on, or contacts in. (me)
You like to engage in activities that aren't friendly to contacts or glasses, such as swimming.
I had mine done under my medical coverage, so it didn't cost me much more than a few bottles of eye drops and a new pair of glasses (a year later). It wouldn't have been worth it if I had to pay out of pocket. I'd say I'm 'fairly satisfied'. My vision is nowhere near as good as it was before with glasses (20/15, 20/10), except that I used to have prismatic effects with the thickness of my lenses. It's great to not have to clean fog, water and dirt off my glasses. Being able to see while swimming in the pool or ocean is especially nice. What's the point of going if you can't enjoy the view?
Which tells you all you need to know about the usefulness of this forum.
well.
first, there are several kinds of ops, as you probably know. the ones i know of i'll list here:
PRK you shouldn't do, the risk of anything going wrong is comparatively high.
LASIK is the one i did, i'm and i'm pretty happy with the results.
LASEK is a moderately new one, it sounds like it's the same as LASIK with the flap that's being taken off much thinner, so they remove tissue from the same layer as in PRK, but it's about as safe as LASIK - more painful, takes longer to heal. it's recommended for those that can do it, but some skin layer might be too thin, so then you'd have to do LASIK.
anyway, i'm sure you can use google to read up more about those, in case you haven't.
the real problem with LASIK and LASEK is, that there's only about 5ish years 'long-term' experience with it. noone knows what'll happen 20 years after the op.
with PRK the long-term experience is a lot better, and for most people things stay just fine. so since both LASIK and LASEK are safer in principle, it's reasonable to assume that you'd be fine, too.
i took the risk because i couldn't stand my glasses any longer. i kept misplacing them, and was nearsighted enough to not find them again once i misplaced them - funny in a way, but not when it happens to you. my eyes are smallish, and pretty dry, so even using contacts that let a lot of oxygen through i couldn't stand them for more than about 6 hours at a stretch, which sucks when you consider a normal workday.
anyway. the op was quick, painless, but terrifying because your vision goes (first completely, then blurry), while you're otherwise fully conscious, and you can't help thinking 'oh god i'll never be able to see again'. heh.
apparently my eyes were a bit sensitive to light, so right after the op i was blinded - i was given some sunglasses for my way home, and everything i saw had a glowing halo. for about a week lights had a halo, then everything was back to normal. i see better at night now than i used to, because my glasses also reflected light badly (good glasses, but some things you just can't do properly, it seems) - whether i see better or worse than with contacts i can't say. the pain for that day was a bit like when you've been cutting onions... annoying, but bearable.
after the op my vision changed from -6/-3.5 diopter (?) to +0.25/0, which is pretty much a perfect result. (+/- 0.5 after the op is considered normal).
which reminds me of something i don't think about often anymore: my eyes being so different, my brain just shut out information from my worse eye most of the time, so i didn't see in 3d. afterwards i kept being completely fascinated and deliriously happy about how plastic things looked.
so, while i'm not sure how things'll be in the future, i'm completely happy with the op.
one other thing to note is that of course your eyes will get worse again with age, just like any other persons. so in a way, the younger you are when you do the op, the more you get from it.
hope this helped!
Perhaps the lens does indeed become less pliable, but muscle weakening due to age is definitely the primary factor in age-related far-sightedness.
- a- view.htm
No, it's not. The actual mechanism is still not completely known, but there is no indication that it is due to muscle weakening, age related or not.
In fact, the ability to accomodate starts declining in childhood, it just happens not to affect normal activities until people reach their 40's. Muscle mass and strength in humans peak in their 30's.
http://www.emedicine.com/oph/byname/presbyopia-
I had Lasik about a year and a half ago and it changed my life oh-so-much for the better that it was *definitely* one of those "wow, I should have done this years ago" kinds of things. I wrote my experiences up here http://www.accidentalevangelist.com/?postid=53
You must not have done very much reading if you think "cornea" is spelled "coronea."
No, it demonstrates that I'm prone to patterned mispellings and that I'm a crappy typist. Those are output issues, and have no bearing on my input (reading) ability.
Have you anything constructive to share?
-J
I think not...(*poof*)
Mod parent up! Not enough people know about Ortho-K!
I've been doing it for 5 years now. In that period of time MY PRESCRIPTION HAS NOT PROGRESSED AT ALL.
Ortho K is the ONLY procedure you can use to stop the progression of near-sightedness.
LASIK WILL NOT DO THIS. After they burn the top of your lens off, once you go back to sitting at your terminal for 20 hours a day you will likely be right back into glasses in a years time....and at that point they can't do LASIK again!
The best thing about Ortho-K is it give you NATURAL uncorrected vision. I can 'see' perfectly with my -2.75 glasses, but it's no were near the quaily of having your eyes perfect again. Much better depth perception. More vibrant, 3-D image.
Even with how I recommend it, I have lot of problems with Ortho-K. All my issues are related to #1 My Allergies which compound my #2 Very Dry eyes.
So if you have these problem you might be in for a nightly battle. With that said, I'm STILL using it after 5 years, as a bad night with the lenses is better then a good day with glasses!
Absolutely fantastic. Used to be completely incapable of functioning without glasses, now my vision is fine.
I do occasionally get dry eyes and need to use eye drops. This is not all that different than before when I used glasses, but it is more severe now.
I also have some halos at night, usually only on blue or red neon signs. The severity of this has lessened over time however and it is almost negligable a year after surgery.
Its awesome! do it, for a person with glasses its the best thing, and if you get the right one you can have it done more than once!
Some things I have noticed.
*I had Kerotonomy (spelling?) done I couldn't use the corrected eye for about a week, and for the first week, it was quite irritating - some people have said its quite painful. but I just found it irritating.
*You get your periphial (spelling?) vision back. which is something you take for granted until you have it/don't.
*they give you some funky drugs
*kerotonomy took a month to get full eye sight back, and as they do one eye at a time that means two months of blurred vision.
*its heaps cheaper now than it was when I had it done (in NZ$1400 per eye).
*aparently pot is good for the ole peepers, i'm sure it was.
They had two brands, Lasik and kerotonomy, lasik consists of cutting the front of your eye off, and sticking a corrective lense in there. kero they just zap your eye.
I enjoyed the experience.
Upside: I did just one eye, and got 0 sphere, .25 cyl (in Euro terms - basically slight astigmatism left behind, but legally good enough to drive). I still wear my specs (with new, weaker lenses) when I have to concentrate really hard (like a push for a deadline), but the rest of the time they are gone. It makes such a difference! No more risk of conjunctivitis. I love diving and swimming, and those are simpler to enjoy now. Roller-skating without getting the bridge of my nose sweaty. Not having to stop and remove specs when kissing the g/f! It's marvellous.
I recommend it to everyone young enough to take advantage of it.
Downside: I appear to have got a slight halo effect at night. Obviously having only had one eye done, if I get sun-dazzled from the good side, then everything goes out of focus. However I will not need reading glasses later, as the untreated eye will take over for reading when the muscles in the other can't do it any more.
I still recommend it to everyone.
Anyone got any specific questions, I'll answer.
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
a woman at my work just went to a clinic in london and had a different technique than laser eye surgery. I can't remember the name of the companies website, but laser surgery is not the only option.
There ARE problems with laser eye surgery - the night vision problems people have talked about, the risk of infection due to there being a flap in your eye that can trap bacteria, plus the fact that the size of your cornea is reduced. This is troubling as your eye will perhaps be more vulnerable to injuries if things hit it.
Also the flap can become detached at any time - as your cornea does not grow it does not heal as such so at any point in the future it can start moving around.
SURELY NOT!!!!!
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/article/0,12 543,658680,00.html
These contact lenses correct your vison at night. You don't wear them during the day.
This might be something you want to look in to if you have reason to be cautious about eye surgery.
My family tends to have eye problems (deatched retnas, scarring etc) so I suggested my mom consider this option insted, but I don't have any more data yet.
I found that my own eyes were pretty dead. :(
I've stopped going for eye checkups as I know they are bad.
Basically one eye is there for cosmetic purposes and the other does all the work...
I found this simple but effective solution seemed to help me.I don't worry about my eye-sight at all anymore!
You can be 100% blind. however you can also look at it as an investment (providing you don't go blind) as you would have spent more on glasses over your life than the one off surgery.
I've had my eyes done about 6 years ago now... and was unable to read numberplates even 5 paces away...
:))
Now I have a DELL Inspiron 9100 Laptop with 1920x1200 resolution and I can read the normal (small) font from 2 meters away (As far as I usually lean back at times)
I've got near perfect vision still in both eyes. Wonderful stuff.
I find that eye strain tends to degrade my vision slightly, and I need to rest to have it restored again... a reason to go hiking and mountain climbing!
My uncle is an oculoplastic surgeon, both pediatric and adult. He's pretty good...He's done some major work to my eyes and I trust him (obviously). I asked him about corrective laser surgery, radial keratotomy and the like a few years ago, before I was considering having eye surgery myself. His opinion is that if you're vision is fine with corrective lenses, don't bother with it. If that surgery is more or less a "cosmetic" thing, he would advise you to reconsider, cause it's not worth altering a healthy eye, even if the effects are "minimal," according to some people.
Hi all, One of my best friends is an optometrist, and recently we were talking about laser eye surgery. The main thing that I remember from the conversation was that ninety-something percent of recipients report that they are pleased that they had the surgery and would do so again. This is in spite of the fact that about a third of recipients have significant side effects. The conclusion reported by my friend (and I can't tell you if it is just his personal opinion, or a widely held one), is that people say they're pleased with the results even if they have significant side effects because they can't undo it, and need to justify that they've had it done. He wears glasses himself, and probably could benefit from surgery, but chooses not to have it. Unless you buy new and fashionable glasses every year, you'll probably never be ahead in monetry terms, and you may well need to use glasses (sometimes) even after the surgery. Consult an independent expert (i.e. someone who doesn't do surgery, but can refer you if you desire it). My 2c, Dr Tom no-I-wouldn't-have-it-done Conway
Do it if you can handle the knifes in your eye, a very non trivial thing. ;-) But try to spend lots of money to get a really good treatment, your eyes are very delicate.
It was succesfull for me, I don't wear glasses anymore. Now I have to wear shades in bright sunshine, I'm really sensitive for sunrays now and 14 hours plus in front of an monitor can do bad things aswell. So in the end I'm still stuck with shelling out 100 a year for a nice look, and IMO sunglasses tend to be more delicate.
If you've made it this far, then the following may interest you if you are pondering LASIK. I've probably had more patient experiences than most. The bottom line is that it is indeed transformational and life changing...but it is not risk free. So here we go:
(1) Get evlatuations from at least three different surgeons/centers. Most do it for free, some have a nominal charge. Because I'm in central Maryland, one of my pre-surgery stops was Johns Hopkins Wilmer Eye Institute. The $100 they charged was worth it for what I felt was the most thorough and most objective assessment of my chances for success.
(2) DO NOT --I REPEAT-- DO NOT-- use price as a consideration in your decision on who is going to operate on your eyes. The financial margins in these practices are relatively thin, and those that are working on the the thin-ice region of ethics will sometimes pressure a person with marginal chances for success. Make your decision on the center/surgeon combination that inspires the most confidence in you. Then do your homework and seek references before finalizing that decision. Most of the volume driven providers have been weeded out...but don't stick with one that pressures you in any way for a decision to commit!
(3) Prepare for complications. During my initial surgery, the fist eye (my right) went flawlesslessy. The procedure on my left eye was interrupted due to problem while making the incision in the cornea (needed to expose the lens to the laser). This particular complication is by far the most common for LASIK. If the cut does not proceed uninterrupted, they will stop and you will come back later (about 90 days) after the cornea has healed. I therefore spent 90 days in 20/20 - 20/400 funhouse. Your brain is an amazing thing and adapts wonderfully. Yes, you can drive like this (in Maryland you can drive with 20/100 vision in just one eye...a scary thought). Mostly this was annoying and frustrating, but it was a big letdown after expecting to walk in myopic and astingmatic and expecting to walk out like Chuck Yeager. MANAGE YOUR EXPECTATIONS. BTW, the second time around on the left eye was entirely nominal. They even did a third to enhance the correction..they undercorrected deliberately on the second attempt. Also, there are new all-laser alternatives (discussed elsewhere) to the microkeratotomy for the corneal insicsion. It's too late for me. Given what I know know..sounds like a superb advance!
(4) If they offer you a pre-op sedative...take it. If they don't...ask for it. If you think having your eyes touched etc is normal....go find your dog and try to touch theirs!
(5) Consider PRK also. It's got a little longer recovery time, but generally is less likely to result in complications, and there is a sense that it is more durable than LASIK because of the above corneal flap issue.
(6) When all was said and done (more than a year in my case) I went from 20/400 astigmatic to bettet than 20/20 in both eyes. There are some slight "starburst" effects at night, but my night vision always sucked anyway, but these are noticable only if I stop to identify them. 4+ years later I'm still glasses free (although my calendar age may dictate reading glasses soon). I can walk/run in rain, snow, fog and see! I can fall asleep on the couch and not worry about trashing a $500 pair of glasses. I can wear cool shades. I can wake up and see the clock, or simply the contents of the room I'm in. I can go from cold to heated spaces without fogged lenses. I started wearing glasses when I was 7 years old. At the time of my surgery, I was paying nearly $500 for glasses that were comfortable and were not coke bottles. Double it for a pair of shades, and a little extra for the spare for the car: corrective surgery winds hands down in the total life cycle cost caluclus! I'm glad I grew up in time when they were available to correct my shitty vision, I never adapted to any form of contact lenses and so I'm similarly glad that the additional options of LASIK/PRK came along to improve on that technology.
--
Bottom line: Choose your surgeon carefully, understand the risks, manage your expecations...and then enjoy your new life without glasses.
I've had friends that have had it done and wouldn't go back. On the other hand, one friend of mine had it done twice--second operation to correct what went wrong in the first...and his vision in the end is worse.
In short, be careful.
Those that mentioned about the military not accepting those that have had this operation is very noteworthy--what should that tell you?
If laser surgery is soooo great, why do all the eye doc's i know still wear glasses? Makes ya think...
I've got a good friend that is the leading eye Doctor in his state, I would trust him to do this... and anyone he recommended, but nobody else. My eyes way too important to let some hack go messing with them. One bit of advise from my friend, if you smell bacon tell the Doc to turn the laser down some, he's burning your eye. (Yum, now I'm hungry for bacon and eggs) I would be happy to give you an intro to my friend, maybe he can recommend someone in your local area.
For my sins, I was part of an independant audit of a new laser surgical device about a year ago.
The people who did the audit are the same people who do audits of aircraft, spacecraft, weapons systems etc.
The only way someone could get seriously, even fatally, hurt with this equipment was during loading or unloading, if it fell on them. The only way someone could have their eyesight permanently and uncorrectably damaged was if during maintenance, they fell over and poked themselves in the eye with one of the partially disassembled control sticks. With the particular design under consideration (some others aren't nearly as safe), even if the software went berserk, the CPUs all byzantine-failed, all the failsafes fused etc etc the absolute worst that could happen would be that the patient would need a corneal transplant. That would occur 3 times in a 100,000 treatments (IIRC)where the wrong prescription had been fed in, and the machine's automatic measuring system had been manually over-ridden.
The rest of the time, even with the wrong prescription etc etc the next worst thing was that re-treatment would be needed, and with fewer corneal cells to work with.
A lot of LASIK devices in service as at Mid 2004 are relatively crude, like doing the reshaping of a 6 ft wide lump of jello with a few hundred scoops with a trowel, or even a shovel. The newer stuff, just coming into service, does the same thing, but with thousands of scoops with a teaspoon. You get better results, less cell removal, a curve closer-to-perfect.
My advice - put it off for a year or 18 months till the technology improves, or make sure the LASIK equipment is this year's model.
Zoe Brain - Rocket Scientist
...that the article is 5+ years old, and this is a rapidly changing field.
Last I heared, it was approx £500 (GBP) per eye to get laser correction.
I opted for a different solution: Nowadays you can get "permanent" contact lenses. I put them in, and after like a month or two I take them out and replace them with a new pair. Beats the age old problem of forgetting to take your lenses out late at night and ending up with dryeye.
Additionally, the word from my optician is that if you take them out and clean them once a week, it'll extend their use to two or three months per lens.
Just a thought, if you're looking for alternatives.
A lot of people here are saying it's not worth it because of the risk. What about the risk of wearing contact lenses? That's a huge risk. People seem to think that no one ever goes blind or has permanent damage because of contacts.
I had lasik done a year ago and never regretted it. However, although most people report that it doesn't hurt, for me it was extremely painful. The operation itself was quite painful but when I got home and the strong painkillers wore off, i was in agony. I still don't quite know why it hurt for me.
By the morning after the pain was gone, and I haven't had any other problems. My vision slowly improved and stabilised further over the next 3 months and I have never had dry eyes or other side effects. I say go for it.
In May 2000, I ended up becoming interested in lasik as I had been in glasses -- thick ones -- since I was in second grade in elementary school. I was very nearsighted, usually rated 20/400 on my eye exams but easily correctible. As I aged, my eyes deformed and my vision became increasingly bad. It was to the point that without them, the distance at which I could see *anything* clearly was less than 4" from my face.
Of course, all the ads that started in 1998 or 1999 caught my attention, but at prices as high as $1600 for both eyes here in the States, I wasn't in a hurry to have the surgery done. Since most of the pioneering work was done in Canada and I lived just across the border in metro Detroit from Windsor, Ontario, I began to hear ads featuring a price of $499/eye offered by LasikVision of Canada. Attactive, said I, and began to plan.
With the help of my girlfriend at the time, we saved up enough to go have the surgery done. I went across the border for my first exam and was told that I was an excellent candidate and they scheduled my surgery for June 10th. After a precarious walk from the clinic to a dark restaurant where I had dinner while waiting for my eyes to come back to normal from being dilated for the exam, I drove back home, excited at the prospect of getting my fucking eyes fixed.
I hated those glasses. They were heavy, difficult to find upon waking up, absolutely necessary if I wanted to function. As a kid, I was terribly hard on them, constantly breaking them in my rough and tumble world as a boy growing up. I had tried contacts as a young adult and again became frustrated because my corneas were unusually flat and it was difficult to find a set of contacts that would fit comfortably. Even then, it was a pain in the ass, playing with all the chemicals and the enzymatic cleansers, and having a reaction to the mercury compounds they used at the time (early 80's) as a sterilizing agent just didn't make me want to wear the damned things. I felt trapped in those huge lenses!
June 10 finally arrived. Once again, a quick reference exam to see if there was any unusual variation since my first exam, then drops were placed in my eye to begin the numbing process and I was given 5mg Valium to take the edge off the anxiety I might experience prior to and during the procedure.
I was finally taken back and positioned on the table. They worked on my right eye first, being that I was left-eye dominant. They used a microtome to cut and lift the flap, then the laser to do the cutting necessary to reshape my cornea. I did well with that first eye, but when it came to the second eye, it was like the anesthetic was lessened in effect due to the trauma to the first eye. I had a difficult time keeping my left eye still and may have botched the laser cutting path. This was before the advent ot the pupil tracking technology that most systems have now. As a result, my left eye wasn't a perfect job. It is still a bit fuzzy but workable as close disatances, and my right eye has compensated to handle the distances.
Within about 9 months of my procedure, when I was told to call and make my 1 year followup exam appointment was surprised to get no answer at the clinic in downtown Windsor. Using the 'Net, I found that LasikVision Canada had gone bankrupt! Talk about pissed off! I had been promised lifetime followup and maintenance. After three months of calling to see if this place would open back up, someone finally answered the phone and told me that another group of doctors had bought the practice but would not honor the lifetime followup provisions of my contract. They would do the exam for $50 and $250 for any adjustment procedures. Fuck that, I said, and decided to simply wait and see how things would heal, since the healing process can take up to 18 months to complete.
I did my follow up exams with my local eye doctor and was told that it was probably best not to have any adjustments done, as they would have to make only very fine adjustments t
Check with your Better Business Bureau or its overseas equivalent. There is one laser eye surgery place in our metropolitan area that should be avoided at all costs. Hopefully they are out of business by now.
Bush's Fuel Cell dream is a nightmare unless you own oil.
I had at about 3 dioptries on right eye. The other on was at about 0.25. Living in central europe the price was at about $300 for one eye - that was five years ago. There were two medical centers doing this kind of operation in my country. One of them had better reputation. I did my research on Internet to know roughly what is it about and I went there and got an explation from the doctor. I went through several tests and measurements (eyeball pressure, tissue thickniss, ...). The surgery itself happened quite quickly - perhaps 2 minutes. Preceeded with half an hour of eyedrops. My impression was that the surgerry was done by machine, into which doctor only loaded the data - so there was not really a space for screwup. Aftewards I got a eye-patch and a painkiller and was sent home. I was expecting more pain that it actually was. Three days later I took the patch off an was fine.
There is a lot of negative comments above, but I was risking only one eye and the change was not very radical - I went from 3 to less than 0.25. It can be, that your situation is not so dramatic either.
I suggest to pick a doctor that does this, find someone who already went through surgery at this doctor and talk to him. Your trust to doctor is important. I had a chance to talk to girl that is now my wife. She had 5-6 dioptries on both eyes and lives without glasses already for 7 years.
Now not everything is perfect. I again have about 0.5 dioptries on both eyes, but that is probably related to reading slashdot and coding for too many years ;-)
Everyone mentions that you shouldn't have the surgery unless you wear coke-bottle glasses. I haven't seen a coke bottle in 10 years, so how would I know when to have the surgery?
Most of the people I know who have had laser surgery are happy. But I wouldn't get into a car with any of them driving at night.
I read somewhere that the night blindness occurs in about 1 in 4 people who have the surgery, sometimes it goes away and sometimes it doesn't. Those that have night blindness as the only side effect tend to be still happy but I wish they wouldn't drive at night. There seems to be an increasing number of people on the road at night driving as if they were blind (not holding a lane, near misses of parked cars & pedestrians, not seeing/obeying traffic signs like STOP).
I have also heard that the technology is not the best for people with astigmatism (warped/rippled lens not just short or long sighted).
I'd like to have perfect eyesight but I think I can afford to wait until the technology is more reliable. There are several different techniques available. The newer ones might be better, but I don't want to be the guinea pig. I can see well enough without glasses but I might feel differently if I couldn't.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Don't move your eye during the treatment or you could have complications. That's what a friend of mine did and now he has a problem with an eye because of the laser treatment he did (because he moved his eye and it hit his retina or something else).
SCIREV.NET - fanfics,reviews & more
Do what you want, but I am keeping my glasses.
My vision is bad -- beyond the range of the 20/20 scale, in diopters close to -10.0 in both eyes, with astigmatism, and recently, a bifocal.
I've worn glasses since I was 5, and though I wore contacts through high school and college, I don't feel like 'me' without glasses on.
Of course, I can't see past the end of my nose (literally) without glasses. But how many times in my life have I been left with broken glasses or lost glasses? NONE. Do people lose prosthetic limbs?
Aesthetically, I think I look better in glasses, and I am willing to pay the extra amount it takes to get the thinnest lenses in fashionable frames. New lens technology means my eyes don't look as tiny, and I can see peripherally without blurring or chromatic aberration (those pretty rainbows I miss so much).
Have I thought about LASIK? Frequently. My girlfriend did it, and is thrilled with her results. But I'm waiting for something in pill form...
... unless they're produced by an independent research company. In my field (UK hypnotherapy), anyone who DOESN'T phone/write back to complain is considered a success. And so therapists report success of 90% when they're really achieving about 20%.
Here's the Linkage. Basically they tell you that lasers were used by the Russians, N. Koreans, Serbians & Bosnians. The Ruskies, Chinese or Armenians will sell one to you if the price is right. The U.S. has been accused of using anti-personell lasers in Iraq (on whom i don't know, it's not like they put up (m?)any planes). Yea, so all in all, teh lazors suxxor when not being wielded by trained medical professionals.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Finally something on /. I'm an authority on.
/. whether that's with glasses or contacts or anything else that'll work.
I also had a CC Dr. do Wavefront on me in 2003. I was nearly -8 with no astigmatism.
Since the moment I got off the table I see multiple images in both eyes that fluctuate daily in intensity, number, and position (uncorrectable irregular astigmatism). I was also slightly overcorrected.
They turned me over to their best doctor who did a PRK correction in one eye almost 2 months ago. According to their computer I'm -0.01 now but I see up to 6 of everything in various intensities in that eye. I won't even go into how I see things that are reflective or emit light...
The fatigue from trying to see is incredible, and I have dry eye issues (although not painfully bad). A lot of days I shouldn't be on the road.
I've seen a over a half dozen doctors around the country and they all tell me something different.
At this point, all I want is to only see one set of words on
The bulletin board on www.surgicaleyes.org has helped me a lot with support, finding doctors, etc... But it's a pay site now (they could really use donations).
BTW everybody I know that's done this has turned out great, and everybody they know (except me).
I won't be having it done, despite 20/200 vision with corrective lenses, because I can't get past the whole "cut your eye and flip it over" thing.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
I've had the LASIK surgery done to my eyes, here in Norway. It cost NOK 30.000,- (approximately $3.750,-) and was worth every cent. I now have perfect 20/20 eye sight, and have recommended it to anyone ever since.
A colleague of mine did it on my recommendation six months ago, and she also have perfect vision now.
_____
"He's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away"
I went in for a LASIK evaluation and they said my pupils were too big. Bummer. So I had a chance to try 30 day contacts.
Being a contact wearer in the past, I had gotten fed up with cleaning, and caring for my contacts. I preferred the ease of glasses. But with 30 day contacts I don't have any of that.
I get up in the morning, hit my eyes with saline, and I'm good. If I wake up in the night my eyes are a little dry but I can still see. It takes about 2-3 minutes for my eyes to remoisten without saline, which is good if you are traveling and forget eyedrops.
These provide me with everything I was hoping for with LASIK, except for swimming underwater, and without any of the risks. I've been wearing them for 18 months now and they are great.
This is a fine alternative to eyesurgury with nearly the same results.
Until this stuff is (even) more mature, I say wait. Like someone said, they're coming out with new machines all the time.
Error 404 - Sig Not Found
But the common-sense recommendation is to do it one eye at a time, with 1-2 weeks between them so you can see the results. Start with your worst eye, just in case.
I'm confused. . . if moving your eye could cause complications, why don't they like temporarily paralzye the eye with some sort of anasthetic/muscle relaxer, so that you can't accidentally move it? I mean, you could get any number of involuntary muscle twitches and BAM! there goes your eye. . .
...that optometrists always seem to wear glasses?
I almost had Lasik, but opted for a new Mac instead. My reasoning:
1) I have a high degree of astigmatism, which often (according to all the waivers they ask you to sign before surgery) needs more than one surgery to correct. People who had more than one surgery were more likely to experience poor night vision and other problems.
2) You can replace a bad pair of contacts, but side effects are forever.
3) There have been no studies on the long-term effects of all of this.
4) Since wearing contacts, my prescription has changed many times. I know my vision will alter again as I age. But the changes to my cornea will be permanent. 4000 dollars later, I will still need glasses.
5) As far as I can tell, my contacts only prevent me from skuba diving and responding to a sudden attack in the middle of the night. Since I live nowhere near an ocean, and would most likely die in a knife fight, I feel my lifestyle is not seriously compromised.
6) Sometimes 20/20 vision is an ugly thing.My uncorrected eyes are better than beer goggles.
7) Hey, new Mac.
I had PRK in 1999. How it works now...I don't know, but this is what was done then (in very untechnical terms).
A laser was used to cut a ring in my cornea (2 seconds) and a swab (but not like the one you get at the drug store) was run across my cornea to remove it. Obviously, you see this. It was just like having someone remove a contact lens. Then they lined the laser up again and began burning progressively smaller discs from my lens. Then end result was a cone burned into my lens. One eye took about 45 seconcs, the other about 75 seconds. I had them done two weeks apart, so that I could still see from one eye as the other healed.
There was no abraiding done. I had to wear a special contact for a couple of weeks until the cornea grew back, but there was never any pain, just itching (and for God's sake, don't rub). My vision is now 20/15 and 20/10 (right, left) and I do see halos, but they are generally only on distant, stationary, none-too-bright sources. The lights on the interstate are the most noticable. It always looks like it is foggy around the tops of the light poles, but lights down on the road (e.g. headlights) look normal. The only lights that give me any problems are those PITA lights they use to light the edges of stairs and aisles in theaters. If I try to look at the ground in a dark theater and walk it is so disorienting that I can't judge distances. I just walk out looking ahead, hand on the wall or my wife.
I was told (and my experience backs it up) that your eyes don't have the sort of nerves that register pain. They feel pressure and moisture, but you can't really hurt the surface of your eye. They give you drops so they can hold your eye open without you squirming when your eye drys.
The only thing that made me nervous is that you have to hold your eye still (since you can't really see anyway, I guess it didn't matter on where you focus). I was affraid I would turn my eye (even a little could be bad) and screw up the whole thing. It didn't happen though, and laying still for one minute is small beans for never wearing glasses or contacts again.
I forget what I paid, but I think it was around 3500-4000 total dollars (US) for both eyes. I would, with absolutely no hessitation at all, do it all over again, and probably at twice the price. My eyes were horrendous before, but they are better than 20/20 now. My wife will likely be having it done in a couple of years, and anyone that asks me will get a resounding endorsement. I was 21 when I had it done, so there is still the chance that the typical occular degeneration that occurs later in life will require that I need reading glasses, but for the next 20 or 30 years I can see fine with my naked eyes.
I've done this a few years ago, in France (I'm french, it explain all ^^). The surgeon was a client of an uncle of mine, who sell optic material. My uncle tells me "don't hesitate, he's a good one". And it's the point for having this type of operation : there's a lot of charlatans (who "lost eyes") and only a few of real good surgeons. So don't hesitate to ask to the clients of the surgeon you want to pay for this. In practice, I've been operated of the two eyes at the same time, for heavy problems on every eyes (I've got really bad luck with my eyes ;)) ; at the end, when you go back house, you can't look on luminous objects. You have to keep at home, away from to harsh light sources, for one half month. But after that time ... it was better than a joy ... it's marvellous ^^ it's incredible to see that the action of taking your glasses on your board disapears two or three days after the end of the cicatrisation ^^.
So, in resume : choose a good surgeon, and envisage two weeks of inactivity. And give news ^^
I get new frames about every 5-6, and spend maybe $100-150 on them. New lenses maybe every 2-3 years (because eventually they get scratches on them and aren't quite so clear anymore), and the lenses maybe cost like $50 (sometimes cheaper if you can find a good sale). If LASIK costs $2000, well that's a lot of frames and lenses. . . I'm not sure I'd really spend that on glasses in my lifetime. . . Unless you count the fact that when I hit 50-60 years of age, my eyes might start getting worse again. . . but then, even with the LASIK, at that point in your life if that happened, you'd have to spend more money anyhow.
Unless your vision is so bad that you're effectively incapacitated without glasses, why bother? Is wearing glasses so terrible? I don't think so -- I prefer glasses to contacts or any kind of surgery. They're relatively low-tech (thus reliable), and they make you look more distinguished and sophisticated.
If you want to spend a pile of money on your vision, go out and buy a really good pair of glasses. Get lenses with all the added extras (UV-resistance, scratch-resistant coating, lightweight material), and get a pair of fashionable frames (Slashdot readers, bring a fashion consultant to help with the frames). Even really laying it on will be cheaper than the surgery, and then in a few years when the surgical technology has improved, you can consider it again.
The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must cover
Yhtill forever. (R. W. Chambers, the King in Yellow
Uhh, in the first sentence of the post above, it should read 'I get new frames about every 5-6 years. . .'
I learned more about the current state of laser surgery and a hell of a lot about eyesight in general from this thread. For example, I thought my problem with blue neon signs at night was a rare phenomenon. Somebody with a high page rank health related site needs to "sticky" this thread. Thanks to all!
NeuroRat -- Fully modified brain implants to steer the rodent population.
Both my father and my wife's father have had these sorts of operations and both are quite happy.
My father in law needed glasses before the operation but his eyes weren't terrible. His vision is nearly perfect now and he never wears glasses.
My dad's vision used to be really, really bad. Without glasses, he couldn't recognize people and certaintly couldn't drive. He's happy with the surgery as well although he does need reading glasses for computer work and reading.
Cheers
My grandmother had laser eye surgery and went from having trouble reading large print to being unable to see the large print. Even TV watching isn't possible anymore (25" screen) as she can't make out even an outline of the people on the screen. Before trying laser surgery, I would look into the Bates Method for improving vision. If it works for you, it won't be the instant cure that most Americans seem to require, but it's definitely safer and I haven't heard anything bad about it.
I had LASEK done on July 9, 2004, at the NYC office of Diamond Vision. I've been considering getting laser surgery done since 1999; I've had glasses since I was 8 years old, and at that point I was making a fair bit of cash, so I started thinking about it. I had a few practical reasons for wanting the surgery, none of them to do with how I looked wearing glasses. My glasses were always expensive, since I bought nice frames and got the thin-glass "option"; I wear them pretty rigidly on my face, so they left a mark on the bridge of my nose; and glasses always got in the way of my sport-type activities (scuba, snowboarding), since I needed to buy custom or oversized gear to preserve my vision.
Anyway, I first heard about LASIK back in 1999, when I was living in Colorado and the procedure was still fairly new. At that point, it was practically a first-generation technology -- the VisX Star S2 was a big step in making LASIK less risky -- but I was still interested in it. Anyway, I got my eyes screened for free at a clinic there, and I was told I was an excellent middle-of-the-road candidate. To corroborate that assessment, I got my eyes screened at a second clinic, and they said the same thing: low astigmatism, stabilized vision, crappy eyes but still an excellent candidate for post-op improvement to 20/40 or 20/20. However, it was very expensive (the clinics quoted me $4000 - $5000 for both eyes, excluding post-op meds), so I held off.
Jump ahead to July 2004: I'm paying down my school bills quickly, my credit cards are paid off / current, and my girlfriend just started a new job, so blowing cash on a vacation somewhere isn't an option for a few months. Like you, I had some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket, and I hadn't forgotten about LASIK, so I decided to look into it again. My first round of research was a mixed bag: the doctors with the most experience (5000+ operations under their belt) charged a lot ($4000 - $5500), but the technology had improved a lot since 1999. VisX has received FDA approval of its 3rd generation LASIK laser, the VisX Star 4, as well as a complementary screening procedure called CustomVue, VisX's branded take on a more generic procedure known as Custom LASIK. Taken together, the LASIK procedure is more highly customized to your own eye's specifications, so the post-op risks (halos, night glare, starbursts, over/undercorrection) are reduced by an order of magnitude. Whereas in previous years, doctors could only measure to within 0.25 increments, the new tech allows them to do it in 0.01 increments. Good stuff.
Anyway, I decided to pull the trigger after a friend-of-a-friend told me he had it done at a place in NYC, by a doctor (Dr. Kornstein) with over 15,000 procedures under his belt, AND the procedure was covered by my vision insurance plan, TruVision, AND the price was far more affordable than I had found previously. The entire procedure cost me ~$2650: ~$2500 for the LASIK (for both eyes!), ~$100 in post-op medication, and ~$50 in cab fare between my apartment and the doctor's office for the surgery and first two post-op checkups. Here's the breakdown of what happened:
1) Two weeks before my surgery, I was given a free screening of my eyes. Nothing major was done, other than dilating my eyes, so driving wouldn't have been recommended afterwards (if I used a car in NYC, that is). After finding out I'm a good candidate for laser surgery, I decide to set up my appointment for July 9 @ 4:30pm. I'm told to schedule a pre-op exam for the week preceding the operation, and two post-op exams:
Well, I can say that I have a mixed recommendation as far as having my eyes done goes. I'm happy with my ending results, except for having dry eyes all the time. The one really cool thing about not wearing glasses (or contacts) anymore has to do with sex. After sex with my wife, I happen to have a tendency to fall asleep. That was a real pisser with hard contacts. I wouldn't wear glasses during sex (it seemed wierd, somehow, plus they (the glasses) got knocked off (not up) once early on in our relationship) so I couldn't see what was going on, even if there was some ambient light. Now, right during the best part, I'm all like "Hey, I can see!" That's made for some interesting conversation.
Really lasik is so cheap now that you don't even need a lump of cash anymore; a minor bolus will suffice. For me the argument holding me back isn't the price but the "in 10 years scenario." A decade ago (okay maybe more like 15 years) the state-of-the-art, cutting edge (pardon the pun) was RK, where apparently they would grind/slice by hand your poor lenses into submission. Issues with scarring and healing up were multiple, yet simultaneously there were those ranting and raving about how great this new technology was how they were never going back.
Sounds a little similar today.
I can't help but think that sometime in the very near future we'll all look back on LASIK in the same way that we now do on RK, i.e. as a laughable, medieval relic of the surgical past. Sometime soon, correcting to 20/10 with no cutting, residual artifacts, nighttime issues, etc. will be the order of the day.
Plus some guy mentioned they're running Win 3.1. Yegads!
If I've talked you into waiting I have two suggestions that might tide you over in the meantime. First, look into natural vision improvement. Depending on how myopic you are, you may be able to improve several diopters by yourself. Second, get yourself some Focus Night & Day contacts. These have literally changed my life, and made me completely indifferent to waiting however long it takes for them to work out the kinks in LASIK. Today's the 24th; you change them once a month; and literally I haven't touched, taken out, cleaned, or even really though about them (until now) for the last 23 days. You can sleep with them in, no problem, and your eyes don't feel horrible like they do if you slept with other contacts. I'm horribly blind (-8 diopters both eyes) but my lifestyle is just like it was back before I started losing my sight in 4th grade.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I had a great experience with my Lasik. I did it exactly a year ago today, and I've been very happy since then. I've had no complications, no haloing, starbursting, or anything.
I did do the new Wavefront analysis, and apparently that was quite useful for my eyes. My prescription wasn't exceptionally bad before (-2.25, -2.5, something like that).
One of the most important things is to pick a reputable place to have it done. Lot's of eye places really use Lasik and PRK as a cash cow. I went to the local medical school (Casey Eye Institute at the Oregon Health Sciences University). They had a good reputation, and they didn't seem to just grind people out the way other places do.
Make sure you talk to people who've been there before you. My place gave seminars before you took the surgery, and were fairly honest about the risks. They gave it all a positive spin, and would cite statistics for how well they've done if you asked (of course, there's no real way to check them out, but....). Be aware of the risks, and make a knowledgable decision.
You can read a first hand account at this article, Beyond Lasik: New Treatments, Less Risk, Perfect Vision which also provides other information such as what you're getting into by getting these procedures, finding a doctor and what questions to ask, and about other procedures available.
My experience:
Slight discomfort during the corneal cut - more like just too much pressure than actual pain. Vision correction was immediate - I could read license plates on the car trip home. After a 2 hour nap, I could see the TV and VCR clock with slight distortion. Next morning - alarm clock was 20/20 - everything else was crystal clear. I suffered from the night halos for about 4 months (I was 34 at the time) and now have 20/13 and 20/15 vision improved from 20/100 and 20/150.
My wife had it done a year later and we agree that it's the best money we ever spent.
I made some cheapy prescription sunglasses that are UV protected, I use them for driving and at the beach etc. First I found a cheap pair of sunglasses at the mall ($8) then I dug through my drawer of old glasses for a pair that I probably wouldn't want to wear much, but that had small enough lenses for this to work. then I just took some PC-11 epoxy and carefully glued the prescription lenses to the inside of the sunglasses. obviously each of us makes a decision about how to deal with what we've got. I've chosen not to get the eye surgery, my opthamologist recommended it once actually. I've found that with a little creative effort and some good habits that wearing glasses really isn't a big deal. knowing my luck, getting the eye surgery, would be. I've been wearing glasses since 4rth grade. I like them, I work in a shop and do carpentry on a regular basis, and while not safety approved I have found that glasses stop a bunch of crap from getting in my eyes. Its amazing the difference that subtle cues like glasses can give other people, they immediately presume that I'm smart and have something insightful to say when I do say something. I can't drive without my glasses etc. but I'm trained to take them off when I fall asleep. I've passed out dead drunk (in someone else's neighbor's back room even) and had the foresight to remove my glasses and place them exactly arms reach away from me so that I don't roll over them in the middle of the night and when I reach out to the right in the morning, there they are! I water-ski downhill etc. and a pair of sport goggles with buoyant foam comfort pads allow me to see in those circumstances. I found my Dad's old tinted pair from 1970, which are soooooo very unstylish that they make a nice style statement. and there are always contacts...
Visit their Image Center for simulations of what the world will look like if you're one of the unlucky ones...
About a month and a half after the operation I was legally allowed to drive without glasses for the first time ever! I now sit at my computer for up to 12 hours a day and can't say I have any major problems compared to before. I got my eyes tested by a professional optometrist, I forget what my vision was exactly but one eye was better than normal vision and the other is slightly lower. This is in normal day time. At night my vision is good enough to drive but there is a small amount of hallow around bright objects. Nothing that bothers every day things but it makes it hard to star-gaze.
My eyes also get drier than normal but it's nothing I can't live with. If I had to do it all over again I would. I'm more than happy to not have to wear glasses or contacts!
I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but arn't most glasses, and even contacts treated to reduce glare? The "increase" might simply be what a "normal" person would see.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Woke up from a nap one day and my vision was foggy. I convinced my mom to take me to the hospital (I was in middle school or something) but by the time I got to see anyone, the eyes were fine. But then they wouldn't let me leave because had to check to make sure my retnas were not detached.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
a.k.a. "The Bates Method" which has never been proven to do anything but lighten people's wallets.
Eye exercises can be beneficial, for mild correction. I use stereograms and eye muscle relaxation as an exercise to help me maintain flexibility. I also periodically stop work and look at something distant to relax my eyes.
Here's some unscientific anecdotal evidence...
I have two brothers. The three of us have had the same vision prescription all our lives (we used different eye doctors, and yet we had the same astigmatism and correction factor for each eye). We could swap eyeglasses accidentally and never notice.
About 10 years ago (I'm now 48), I started using the sterograms and regular rest breaks. My vision started to improve, theirs continued to get worse. They wear their glasses all the time now. I rarely do (sometimes at night, when my eyes are tired).
My astigmatism is gone -- my eye doctor said he never had a patient have an astigmatism correct itself.
Was it the exercises and breaks? I don't know. I do know that it's hard to convince people to do this. Friends and family have asked about the technique, and when I explain it, they concentrate (instead of relaxing) for a few minutes or go through a stereogram book and tell me it doesn't work. When I started, I used a digital clock (which was too out of focus to read the time) across our darkened bedroom as a benchmark. It took six months before I could read the time. Now I can make out the individual segments of the display.
It's certainly not a quick fix, but it is easy. Relax (don't concentrate or try to focus). Blink your eyes a few times (like you're trying to clear some fogging on your eye). Practice looking at stereograms, switching focus from the 3D image to the text (back and forth). When working on a monitor or watching TV or reading a book, get into the habit of glancing away to a distant object (like looking in a side view mirror while driving) every few minutes. Find a benchmark (like my digital clock), and check the quality of your vision every month or so. That's it.
Much of your vision quality is actually in your brain (it's the part that removes blood vessels overlaying your retina and backfills the image in realtime). Another significant part is the mechanics in the eye that flex to adjust focus. The exercises I've been doing appear to address both. YMMV, but it works for me.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
I had laser eye surgery during my junior year in college.
I'm now just over two years out, so it's been about 4 years.
Immediately after the surgery the haloing will be REALLY bad - And also you will find yourself needing artificial tears VERY often for the first week or two, and pretty often for the next few months.
The haloing and dryness were still quite noticeable but also significantly reduced after one year.
Four years later I have almost no haloing (only if I specifically look for it... Or maybe I'm just used to it.), and I only need the artificial tears once a day in the morning after I wake up, and sometimes not even then.
I'm damn glad I had it done, and on the newer lasers available the haloing and dryness goes away even faster/is less noticeable.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
with all this tatooing going on, i think i'll wait a
few years for society to change back to normal,
before even thinking about this laser eye-surgury
thing.
man, even some pls trying to sell you glasses are
really bad ( = pretty gurl with high heels and fancy
fress in glasses selling shop).
nevermind.
I had mine done last December.
My only residual issue is hat my eyes get drier than they used to when it is hot and dry out or I've been staring at a computer screen to long.
I can't stress enaugh being sure to look away from the computer once in a while. Otherwise you will increase the rate at which your efes regerss.
They will regress a little bit. But not horribly so.
I went from 20/5 20/10 to 20/15 20/25. Prior to surgery my glasses had corrected me to 20/15 20/15, so the world is blurrier now... which is strange at times. But I see as well or better than mast other people.
Making sure you use the right laser tech is good. The systems that use variable sizes really make a difference. They help smooth the outer edes which reduce haloing. One of the mejor causes of that isn't so much the corneal scar -- although if you have big irises it can be a part of the cause -- but rather the pit effect on the side of the gap. If not smoothed it can create problems.
The final thing to consider is your health and your age. You will have better results if you are over 23 but under 35 or so. In such a scenario it is likely it will last 20 or so years before regressing some. Your eyes typically regress through puberty to early 20's, and every 20 years or so... 40's 60's and 80's..
The older you are the longer it takes to recover, the faster it will regress and the more it will regress.
Myopia, mild (around 2.5). My vision was excellent in about a month, but the halos persisted for three years. It may have been my eyes--not eveyond gets halos.
-I am an elective eunuch.
I am now presbyopic as well as myopic, so my near point is (I just checked it) 5", and my far point is 9" . I used to be able to focus at 4". Even with myopia, it seems I can view an object at half the distance of many normally sighted people, yielding a magnified image compared to what they see - like a macro lens. Non myopic individuals with presbyopia will not be able to focus nearly as close: the only previously 20/20 presbyopic nearby at the time of this post reports 18-20 inches at best.
With laser correction of the myopia, this close vision does go away, as my sister discovered to her chagrin.
Who told you that you're allowed to post to slashdot again? You will regret this.
a complete eye replacement!
I've already picked mine out, a nice dark brown pair to replace my current grey ones... yumm!
I had LASIK done on one eye, so that I have an excellent basis for before and after comparison. I think that many people are unaware of the underlying problem with LASIK: The surface does not end up smoothly curved, but with bumps, ripples and dimples, like looking through an uneven pane of glass, and no glasses or contacts can then fix this problem. This is most noticable at night because the pupil is much more open/dilated, but in any high contrast situation it is noticable. Most people have both eyes done and they cannot give you a unbiased opinion. Just as if you get a new prescription you are surprised how everything is ultra clear - you never notice the degradation over time because you have nothing to compare against. In fact it is really easy to verify that the problem is uneveness for those that have had the surgery done. At night look at a point bright light and rotate your head left/right. You will see the stellation pattern rotate as you turn your head. Alternatively keep your head still and bring a peice of card or your hand across your eye (very close to your face). Depending on the direction you bring the card in from, you will change the shape of the stellation pattern (and you can thus work out physically where the worse areas of uneveness are). If the surgery gave you the wrong focus point but perfectly shaped, then there would be no stellation pattern, instead the light is symmetrically blurred out of focus (try it on a good eye when not wearing your contact or glass!). The biggest gripe I have with the surgery is that with the eye I had LASIK done on it is not as good at looking at monitors as the un-LASIKed eye - especially for high contrast text - which really sucks. My vision in the un-LASIKed eye is -6 diopter ( both were the same) and with a contact I can see much better detail in all situations with that eye as compared to the eye that has had the surgery. I spoke with the surgeon afterwards and he said that the amount of laser ablation is not measured, there is no feedback as it is ablated, instead a controlled amount of power is delivered to each coordinate on the surface of the eye. Because there is no feedback, the actual amount of ablation can and does vary across the surface, and so you do not end up with an even surface. Although he or I could be wrong here, as I haven't looked into the underlying reasons, and he is a surgeon not a LASIK manufacturer. This was three years ago, but people still talk about the night vision problem, so newer machines have not resolved the underlying issues. I think there is a place for the surgery: - If you are doing it for sports (Doom III is not a sport, neither is Slashdot). - If you have serious astigmatism that cannot be corrected with contacts or glasses. - If you cannot wear contacts (lets face it, glasses are just not sexy). Anyone thinking of getting it done, I would suggest do one eye at a time so you have a true comparison. Be warned: They may put pressure on you to get both done at once (it is very hard to tell a specialist surgeon what you want when they say doing both is recommended). I am sure their underlying reasons for any pressure are not surgical reasons, but are for their interests. Cheers
Happy moony
Think I give a fuck? Suck my dick,
Check out www.lasermyeye.com
It was created by a friend of mine who had a bad experience with LASIK. She later found out that there were more tests her doctor should have done to determine if she was a good candidate for the procedure.
The site is NOT a site that intends to scare you away from LASIK, it just informs you of less-commonly known info useful in makig a decision and preparing for LASIK if you decide to have it done.
20/600 w 90 degree astimtatism in both eyes going in. 20/20 + no astigmatism (better than 20/15 combined) coming out.
This represents the same expectations as the people that lose over a hundred pounds in 6 months. It is not typical. What they do strive for is to get you to the point where you don't need glasses. I went to Cascade Regional Eye Clinic in Arlington, WA. Dr. Harmon is one of the countries best.
Around $3600 then, cheaper now, for both eyes, and a full year of follow-ups (and used to include any touch-up required if they were too conservative or complications develop).
5/6 years later and I am still 20/20 (or 20/15 combined) or better. The only interesting effect is on just the right cold nights I can look at real bright streetlights and see something that looks like a faint version of "the crystaline entity" from STtNG. Not that I look at streetlights directly all that often. After 3 year they had trouble locating the incision on my cornea.
I can't stress too much following the procedures they outline for personal care after surgery. And I have an awesome video of the surgery as well.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
I was repeatedly told by the docs and nurses that I would feel "discomfort, but no pain".
So, imagine my suprise when the doctor stuck the knife in my eye, and IT FELT EXACTLY LIKE HE STUCK A KNIFE IN MY EYE!!!! I pretty much screamed, and the doctor yelled at me because he was afraid I'd wrench my head out of the vise. On the second one I was prepared and ignored the pain.
So, afterwards, I said "How's come y'all told me it wouldn't hurt? It hurt like a sumbitch!" and they said, "Well, hardly anyone has pain sensing nerves in the surface of their eye. Less than 1% of the population". To which I replied, "Oh, and you couldn't bring yourselves to say I'd PROBABLY not feel any pain?". They were very apologetic but they probably said the same spiel to the next guy in line anyway.
Lasik has the drawback that you can rub the flap loose in your sleep the first couple of nights if you don't wear goggles. (Solution: sleep in goggles, Duh.) But PRK leaves raw tissue on the surface of your eye - it vaporises the "rind" of the eyeball - which vastly increases your chance of opportunistic infection from airborne pathogens, which are of course everywhere. There are supposed to be new forms of Lasik that use a laser instead of a microtome to create the flap - that's probably worth investigating.
I don't regret the surgery at all. Got it at age 39 and have been glasses-free for 4 years. Soon, I'll start getting farsighted with age, and I'll be back in glasses again - but NO BIFOCALS, YAY!
I had LASIK done about 4 years ago and would do it again in a skinny minute. However,one piece of advice I got before undergoing LASIK was to find out not only how many procedures your Doctor had performed, but how many he had performed with the specific laser he would be using on you.
I saw an infomercial about this stuff, which caught my attention because I intend to have it done when the technology gets to a level that it can improve my eyesight, which is not even bad enough to require glasses, but I hear eventually they will be able to improve on even the best natural vision. Although I never take advertising at face value, I have to say I was a bit impressed by the way the INTRALASE shop nearest me had worked everything out. They emphasized how they made the whole experience much better for the customer, not just by choosing intralase but by providing psychologically streamlined facilities and procedures... right down to having the machine audibly say your name and which eye it thought it was about to start working on, so that everyone present could catch a mix up in data sets...
http://www.northeastlaser.net/
Anyway as far as my vision goes it will be years yet before it is safe and effective enough for me to justify it, but I've known others that have had it done and if your eyesight is shit, the INTRALASE stuff looks like it is a pretty big improvement over the use of blades.
Someone had to do it.
I underwent LASIK a few years ago and wrote a mini-howto that you may find useful.
A few tips, reaffirming many already stated:
1. Research your doctor. Local, traditional eye doctors are probably the best place to start because they are handling most referrals, pre-ops and post-ops for the LASIK doctor you are considering. Seek the latest technology (tracking etc.) and avoid those who believe everyone is a candidate for it (you may have too large a cornea for hardware they bought off eBay, resulting in halo hell etc.).
2. The damn goggles. Try swimming goggles! They keep the moisture in and you can sleep on your side while wearing them. Ignore the DEVO comments!
I was -10 and -9.5. I could focuse on my nose hairs and little else. I had one enhancement and -.25 remains in one eye because of their conservative approach. Wearing glasses would simply make things look different, not better. Being able to shop for/wear ordinary sunglasses rocks. All in all, I keep forgetting that I had LASIK.
Now let's all hope there is some truth to this study.
MD
The product is a QNX success story, so it seems they reconsidered (thank goodness).
A very good friend of mine had Lasik corrective surgury on both of her eyes. The first procedure in her left eye went very well, however, the second procedure on her right eye left her completely blind in that eye. Here's what happened: She lives in South Beach Florida, a warm tropical environment where all sorts of nasty things grow and hang around in the air. Turns out that she got an infection inside her eye when the doctor cut and flipped over her cornea to "zap" the lense with the laser. After several days of pain, she called me up and asked what she should do, I said go to the doctor immediately and get the infection taken care of. The doctor wrote a prescription for some heavy duty antibiotics; they did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the infection. My friend called me again complaining of the horrible and unbearable pain in her right eye. I said that something else must be wrong. She went to the emergency room, was refered to a specialist, where it was discovered that she never had a bacterial infection at all, it was a fungal (mold) infection. The infection munched away so much of the inside of her right eye that she is completely blind, and must wear a special contact lense to conseal the frosted scarring of her cornea so people don't stare at her in public. She still lives in constant pain, though not as bad as before. If you get this surgury done, beware of the risks, and get it done in a NORTHERN STATE (Like Main, Vermont, Ohio, Michigan) IN THE WINTER MONTHS when bacterial and fungal counts are low in the air.
The very young and the very old take a beating from all kinds of diseases that the rest of the population shrugs off. I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your sister. I never heard of something like that happening. It is very sad.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
..as i can't even make out distant objects like the the text in a newspaper without my glasses (because my nose is in the way when i try to bring the newspaper closer to the eyes).
I have about 11 dipoter (hope i hit the right translation there).
Glasses that strength always refract the colors at the sides, so although i can read text fairly well, i always have to turn my head so it's really in the center of my vision e.g. centered over the center of my glasses.
Also there is the problem of finding the glasses, if i put them not on the usual place before going to bed (like when coming home drunk or when sleeping in a hotel). Driving at night is problematic too, because my glasses refract light on the edges into colors, so when i pass a light i always get a colorfull show at the edges instead of the objects i need to see (i tried many glasses, but the law of optics aren't going to change any soon).
So far, that is my pre-lasik status. I'm currently lookign for a good clinic here in europe (preferably austria).
Look, this thing is totally safe! Built it myself, you know. You just press that button like this and then turn that lev
Does this mean your eyes adjusted to keep you short-sigted?
The website mentions the risk of ecstasia resulting from thinning of the cornea. It goes on to suggest the necessity of a corneal transplant. ....but I'd still be damn careful around lasik!
I have a naturally occurring ecstasia (not keratoconus, but Pellucid Marginal Corneal Degeneration). The result is almost 6 diopters of
astigmatism. I get by fine with rigid gas permeable lenses, and an knowledge that statistically only 10%
of people with my condition every need a full or partial corneal replacement...and 90% of those are successful.
It's not black and white. Its possible to deal with an ecstasia....
Don't waste your time checking with the BBB, instead, check with your county's consumer affairs agency (if you're in the states). Unlike the BBB, Consumer Affairs doesn't take money from businesses as "membership" dues, which anymore amounts to little more than a paid bribe to ensure a good rating.
And what do you see wrong with fuel cells ?
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
If you're still not sure about LASIK or PRK, why not try Paragon CRT ?
I'm opting for this myself: Basically, after having your eyes topographically scanned, you wear corrective rigid or semi-rigid contacts at night, which after 3 days to 2 weeks gradually reshape your cornea so that light focuses properly on your retina. You take them out in the morning, and your eyes retains the shape for the full day and you see clearly without having to worry about eyesrops, glasses, etc. Naturally, if you stop wearing the contacts, your original vision returns after a few days.
It's said to be relatively painless, very effective, safe, and totally reversible. While it still involves some hassle, I'd say not nearly as much as regular contacts do, and you can be free of glasses too.
http://www.paragoncrt.com
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
My aunt got laser eye surgery a little over a year ago.
It worked fine, except one night she woke up with extreme nausea (unrelated to the surgery, she just got a virus). After throwing up, as she was returning to her bedroom she collapsed in the hall and was found dead a day later. It was determined a blood clot found its way into her brain and killed her. It became dislodged from the force of throwing up, and was believed to come from the region of her eyes, right where the surgery took place.
In fairness, she had had issues with high blood pressure and high cholesterol, so that probably increased the chances of something going wrong.
That's the only case I know of someone dying in a possible connection with Lasik eye surgery, but it hit close enough to home for it to count with me.
I'm not going to say don't do laser eye surgery, just please remember to add death to the possible list of side effects, even if it is a one in a million chance.
In my left eye I'm slightly nearsighted, but the main prob is that I have some scar tissue smack in the middle of the retina--right in that portion that handles the central vision. If I close my "good" eye (that being a relative term, trust me), I cannot read a thing with my left eye, but as parent states, I can detect motion and such. In fact, it's weird and hard to describe--I can _see_ everything, there's just obviously not enough for my brain to put the fine points together to discern the fine details. For example, I can tell that I am typing in a box and it has lots of black things in it. Can't read a bit of it though, no matter the distance. Here's a test--can you read a piece of paper if you place it a foot from your ear? That's how I see at any angle with that eye.
:)
Then there's my good eye, the right one. I'm like -7 or something, I forget the number. Suffice to say I have a fixed focal length eye. If something ain't at 2" from my face, it's blurry. Mostly correctable tho (20/40, e.g. half as good as normal).
Anyway, back on topic, I wish I could entertain the thoughts you guys are having, but I'm not even eligible to have any of the current techniques for laser vision correction. I ask my retina specialist every time I go if there are any advancements in his field that can fix me up. I'm holding out for eye transplants.
Try www.lasermyeye.org, or www.surgicaleyes.org as a place to start. Short version of the story: If it goes well, it's GREAT. If it doesn't, it's a nightmare... once your eyes are lasered, if it's unsatisfactory, you can't correct it with glasses and you can't wear normal contacts. My wife lost her night vision due to bad lasik... odd thing is, the doctors count her as a success because she can read an eye chart under bright lights. But under normal room lights, her vision is blurry... and under muted room lights, she can't even recognize faces 5 feet away... and yet she's counted in their '99% success rate'. From what I can tell from reading the sights, anywhere from 10 to 40 percent (depending on the type of machine they use) get unsatisfactory results. A percentage of those can be fixed with subsequent surgery, but not all.
600/20 means that what *other* people can see at 600, you can see at 20
Okay, I finally took the 10 seconds to look it up, so we can stop all the guessing.
Here's one reference among many about the standard for measuring visual acuity. You can google for "visual acuity 20/20" or something like that to get other sources. Just in case, I also searched for "acuity 40/20" and came up with nothing relevant.
I think many people just remember it backwards. The *first* number should always be 20, and refers to what you can see at 20 feet (since that's how far away the chart is). The second number is the distance "regular" people see it at. For those who are, for whatever reason, really interested in this, these are called the "Snellen fractions" (e.g., 20/30, 20/80), after the guy who invented the chart and method, Dr. Hermann Snellen.
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
As for laser surgery, I've considered it once or twice, but honestly, my vision is enough to get around for the most part and my family's vision has a history of pretty predictably declining as we increase in age, so I don't know how long the surgery would last me.
The contacts are nice for not being able to get knocked from my face and they've been a boon for doing acting, but I will admit that I miss the eye protection provided by glasses. On the other hand, being able to wear store-bought sunglasses without having to check that they properly fit over my regular glasses is nice too...
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
While I'm a big fan of contact lenses, they do still have definite drawbacks in the convenience area. While they're harder to knock off one's head than glasses, you still have a decent chance of accidentally rubbing or blinking them out in cases of sweat or water in the eyes. And there's that additional hassle of wrestling them in and out of your eyes each morning. I've gotten past that last one by getting the 30-day lenses, but they're slightly more uncomfortable, more likely to spawn eye infections, and don't correct for my (fortunately mild) astigmatism. *wry grin* And while you won't be hurting nearly so bad in the morning as wearing regular contact lenses, the quantity and quality of eye gunk is absolutely amazing... and it usually takes a good 5 minutes of blinking and splashing water in my eyes before my vision isn't blurred by the slightly dried/gunked lenses.
Lastly, on your comment about glasses having fixed optical centers, I believe glasses have been designed with multiple-IOR for years. Basically, rather than having the lenses move with your eyes, the lenses are set up so wherever you look, you're looking through the right focus. There are always some holes and glasses not quite fitting right, but it's well within the human ability to correct it in one's mind.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Well, the very worst case is blindness. Some doctors do extensive tests to reduce the risk factor, some are not so strict. I'd advise to consult with a few doctors, and chose the one with the most strict requirements. And if you do not fulfill those requeriments, then don't.
:-)
Now, note that FULL CORRECTION IS UNLIKELY. You are quite likely to still have some degree of whatever you have. Particularly if you have a very high degree of it to begin with.
Next, night vision is degraded.
Now, having said all that, I did the operation and I was particularly lucky in that I don't need to wear glasses anymore (though I did not achieve full correction). Since I absolutely hated to wear glasses, and haven't had any particularly bad side effects (yet! eyes take 20 years to regenerate, so there's still plenty time to something go wrong -- that happened to all patients of the first surgical techniques), I'm very happy about it. The first time I woke up and managed to read the title of the books in the bookshelves from my bed... that was fantastic!
Mind you, my night vision was definitely degraded, but I had good night vision to begin with.
(8-DCS)
That's completely wrong. The cornea is at the outside, front of the eye, the retina is at the inside back of the eye. No laser technique ever touches the retina.
With LASIK, the doctor uses a scalpel to cut a flap off the cornea, then uses a laser to trim away the material under the flap (still part of the cornea) then puts the flap back and seals it.
With PRK, the doctor simply shaves away a few mm of the cornea surface with a laser (after removing a layer of epithelial cells).
Neither technique gets near the retina (i.e. the back of the eye) it only touches the cornea. Neither technique touches the "eye's innards". They both simply shape the cornea, the rest of the eye is unaffected.
I don't have any idea why the retina would detach due to this surgery. I know retinas routinely detach due to traumatic injury, and retinal detachments are a big problem for diabetic people, but neither of those explains what happened here. But one thing's for sure, this poster has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.
You might want to try correcting your eyes naturally instead of cutting up your eye. I used to be -2/-2.25, went down to -1.25/-1.5 when i'm tired and on good days i can now see clearly.
My dad had tha surgery a few months ago. It only took a few hours for the actual surgery, and within a day he was perfectly fine (they released him within minutes of the procedure, but his eyes were very light sensitive for a while). So far he hasn't had any problems with it, and its been about half a year.
I go to 2 eye Drs - My "Normal" optho, and one who specalizes in eye surgery including lasik and glaucoma - I have slightly high eye pressure, and they wanted it monitored - turns out NOT to be a problem in my case (stable pressure after 3 years of checks every 3 months)
Anyway, I asked him about lasik - he said, sure, we can do your eyes, but your 40, your glasses don't seem to bother you. He also said - Notice that I'm your age, and I'm.... Wearing glasses. He would only have to walk over to his partner to have it done, and he has not.
Tells me something
That said, he says the advances have been HUGE in the has 3 years or so
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
I was 47 when I had this done. The procedure that I had done is called ModifiedMonovision. One eye is slightly under corrected which allows me to forgo the use of reading glasses for casual reading, computer screen, newspapers, etc. I still put on magnifying glasses for prolonged reading bouts. I had this surgery on a Tuesday and bicycled 30 miles on Friday, albeit, carefully. It has been two years, and I have not regretted doing this for one second. I am very physically active and eye glasses and contact lenses were not the best solution for me. Actually, my eyes would no longer tolerate contact lenses after about 20 years of wearing various types. I was legally blind before the surgery and now have 20/15 in one eye and 20/30 in the other. ModifiedMonovision does mess with your depth perception at night, but so long as you realize that, you shouldn't have problems. I talked to a lot of people who had this done and asked about a lot of different surgery providers, before taking the leap. I also watched this surgery from the sidelines for several years before deciding it was safe. I had no problems from the surgery and have had none since the surgery.
I was very skeptical about it but had an issue with wearing glasses because I didn't like the way it looked on me and hated wearing contact lenses.
I did a lot of research and everything points to one major factor. It's all about WHO does the surgery and the reputation of the company.
I had it done by TLC here in Moncton and the surgeon had a lot of experience, and I knew people who had it done by her.
A lot of places will lower the cost because the surgeon isn't as experienced, or the machine uses the same blade more than once, and a lot of other small things that you don't think of.
I've been 6 months and my gf just had hers done and she is in great shape as well.
I recommend it, but go for a place that has a good rep. TLC is far better than others!
No matter how fast computers get, you'll always be waiting - Matt Klem
I had the Lasik done about 5 years ago at the Laser Eye Center of Silicon Valley, where the doctor was one of the most experienced in the US.
It was the best $4200 I have ever spent. Period.
My vision before going in was 20/1000 in each eye, (yes, 20/1000), with astigmitism. I had worn hard contacts for years and before that coke bottles.
I had one problem, and that was from the vallum they gave me. It was the first time I had ever had vallum, and instead of calming me it made me even more tense. Add this to the fact that I was already terrified, (these are MY eyes), and they had to stop the procedure after cutting the flaps because I couldn't sit still. I went back three days later, (after getting some really good pills from my family doctor), and the procedure was continued without a hitch. They just pulled up the flaps and finished the lasering. When I got up the next day, I could see great, but I couldn't remember the ride home. I had very bad halos at night for a few weeks, but that went away and my night vision today is no different than it was before the surgery.
My vision is now between 20/20 and 20/25 in each eye and combined 20/20 or better. I never had to go back for an enhancement.
Although there are some risks, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
If you have been dependent on glasses and contacts all your life, the pure joy of waking up and being able to see clearly is beyond the power of words to describe. Tossing all the contact and glasses related stuff in the garbage was also immensly satisfying, not to mention that I am now saving over $500 a year.
Oh well, nuff said.
Good luck whatever you choose.
Both wear glasses. Andrew
They attach a little suction cup device to your eye that guarantees getting the right cut.
The entire surgery is pre-programmed into the computer. All the cutting and flashing in the surgery is pre-programmed into the computer. The doctor takes care of attaching the implements and presses buttons to allow the procedure to continue.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Es mejor a preguntar por que hay tanto campo...