I can't believe this was moderated up... Think about what you're saying: As if the people backing the Mozilla project so far were poor -- Hello? It's AOL. They've got about as much money as you could hope for, without being Microsoft. I don't think Mozilla was hurting in the money department.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Bleh -- At least once a day we get a "Is this really news for nerds" post. It's a matter of opinion of course, but let's think about it.
/. has been covering Amiga news quite a bit since the recent flurry of news surrounding them and Transmeta. Doesn't it make sense that they'd post an article about the people who made the Amiga what it was? I'll agree that there are more appropriate topics for Slashdot, but I think that Amiga-news has its place here. After all, there are certainly some Amiga-fans among our ranks.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Sarcastic, biting comments aside - how could anyone post with more authority than another on this topic? Seriously, it's really an opinion post from the start. I happen to think that Cher and Perens have more in common than Roblimo originally stated.
The reason I post early (when possible) is so that my comments won't be lost in a mass of other comments. It has nothing to do with Karma -- I don't mind having my posts moderated up, because it makes them more visible, but I'm not doing it for the karma.
Still, you seem to think that my posts are worthless. That's fine. But realize that, if my posts are crap, it's not because I'm just spouting off garbage to get moderator points. It's because I'm a moron. I guess, once again, it's all a matter of point-of-view. Someone who agrees with me would probably see this point as interesting and reply with something on-topic.
Incidentally, I actually am 18 years old. I don't know if that really says anything about me as a person though. I'll bet a lot of/.ers are around my age. I have actually read some fairly interesting posts from people who I know to be 14. But this is all coming from an Anonymous Coward. It's impossible for anyone to track anything you say -- I find it in decidedly poor taste when ACs criticize logged-in members about their posting habits. There's nothing there to compare it to. Moreover, if you feel so strongly that everyone on Slashdot (with the notable exception of jd) is posting for the karma, then I don't see why you stick around. Unless you really like jd that much...
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
So then you think that Corel is doomed just because Perens badmouthed them? I think it's reversed. Corel's distro may suffer, but not because Perens spoke out. It's the other way around: Perens spoke out about them because they're retards when it comes to the GPL -- and that is why their distro will suffer. Bruce speaking out was just a symptom of that which had the effect of making the problem more visible.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Lord knows that Stallman can't. Did you ever hear that "free hackers" song of his? Wow, was that bad. Anyway, even if he couldn't, I'd still buy it. I'll bet copyleft would sell them too.
Do you think he'd open source the lyrics?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Hey, thanks AC, that's great. Really, I mean that. Seriously... You're my hero.
First of all: What the heck do I need with more karma? I've already got 74 and it's not like they're going to give me another +1. Moreover, I didn't even use my +1 on that last comment. Sheesh.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I know that sounds silly, but really it depends on your context. If you're a record-label executive, Cher might be quite a bit more important than BP. In fact, in most places other than the Open Source Community, BP isn't very important at all.
I guess my point is that this isn't anything special. Everything is a matter of point-of-view, but in any situation there are people who are put into positions of importance (like Perens in the OSS community). It happens and when it does, these people either learn to handle the responsibility that comes along with it, or they drop out of the limelight and let someone else do the job. And, yes, that is possible and would not be hard for someone like Perens to do.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Are you for real? Chernobyl? Isn't the area around Chernobly supposed to be irradiated or something? Sounds like a goofy plan to me, but hey -- if they really need it.
What doesn't make sense to me is why they would bother with Chernobly anyway. Would there be anything salvagable from the original working system? I would've thought that the whole thing might have fallen apart.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Well if the donation is optional, it's not really shareware. Shareware generally has a clause in its license requiring the user to pay money if they use the program. If the donation is an option (which it would have to be under the GPL) then it's still freeware.
That said, there are a lot of applications out there that ask people for donations. The GNU homepage encourages donations to the FSF and the OpenBSD site does the same with regards to hardware.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Dude, chill. I'd actually like to see them do it. You're right, they don't need my approval. And also right about the argument being tedious. Needless to say, that's what I was doing.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Although that was really a troll-ish way of saying it, I almost agree. Unless porting Debian to BSD would be a minimal effort, or there was a group that wanted to do just that, and nothing else, I don't think it's really worth the effort.
I mean seriously - why do we need it? The FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD systems are just as painstakingly careful with their release-system as the Debian people, so it's not like we'd be getting a more mature development cycle, right?
On the other hand, there really aren't any "distros" to speak of with the BSDs. I wonder why... It would seem that a company willing to put a bit of effort into ease-of-use could become the RedHat of the BSD world. In fact, they could probably go head-to-head with RedHat in terms of OS sales. Doesn't everyone here always say "competition is good"?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
That's not really true. This has nothing to do with implementation. While the article focused on Open Source, the poster was suggesting that the software, as a whole (including Linux), is being taken up because it is the underdog.
Following that, it's easy to see who the under-dog to underdogs like Linux are. BSD? Hurd, maybe? Anything that has less supporters is, by definition, the under-dog.
To your last point, I can easily see there being an underdog to certain Open Source implementations. Look at the individual licenses: There are varying degrees of freedom in the Open Source world. The BSD license is arguably more free than the GPL license. That doesn't make it better, but since most of the free software out there today is under the GPL, it does make the BSD-license an underdog. It all depends on how you look at it, I guess.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I've got a Nvidia TNT2 myself and, even following their instructions to the letter, I have not been able to get hardware-based OpenGL working on my system. It's not just the actual support; it's being easy to setup and easy to work with. Under Win98, I've never had to explicitly setup OpenGL libraries -- they were just there. That's what we need.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Well, let's be realistic. China has zero experience in space-missions. You think that they'd really have any competitive ability in a space-race with us? Without first trying missions to a closer body like, say, the Moon? Not likely.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Well, unfortunately, 3D acceleration in Linux is still very lacking. AFAIK there are only 3 chipsets that have OpenGL support in hardware (Nvidia, 3Dfx, and Matrox). Even then, your mileage may vary.
So, while I agree that games are lacking, I also feel the need to point out one of the reasons -- We need to get better graphics support. I know that XFree86 4.0 will be out soon with DRI support, but will it work with OpenGL in hardware, using more chipsets than we have now?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Oh cut it out -- Sun's license isn't dangerous; you're just being overdramatic.
Nobody's forcing anyone to develop software for Sun. If your boss decides that it's in the best interests of your company, then that's his problem (and yours), not Sun's. Look, lawyers are not going to come busting down your door, as long as you don't break the license. Don't think the license if fair? Tough shit. Don't use it then. But, for the love of God, stop complaining about how much these licenses are evil and corrupting. It's a free market -- if you don't accept their terms then vote with your feet and use a different vendor.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Well what would you suggest? They open source all of Netware and allow people to download it from their FTP site? Yeah, that's real smart. Then they could make money off of "support" like RedHat.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
The GPL basically prevents companies like Sun and Novell from selling their products. At least, in the way they've been selling them previously. By creating their own licenses, Sun/Novell can make sure that they retain full ownership of all the code submitted to the project. This way, they don't lose their source of income. It's not free-software, but it is Open Source.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
This is a very "My Way or the Highway" type of attitude, and it's very popular around these parts. First of all, Sun isn't exactly under any obligation to release any of their source code at all. And why should they? The developers here on/. have already said that they'd stick with Linux even if Solaris was Open Sourced.
The fact is: The Open Source Community -- especially the Linux faction of it -- are getting greedy. We're so used to having everything for free, and completely open, that we're now berating companies that don't cater to our demands. Well the truth hurts, but you can't have everything for free. Companies are going to want to hold on to their IP, and licenses like the GPL and BSD don't do a whole lot to help them maintain that hold.
So, yes, I think this is a step in the right direction. In this case, the right direction is whatever direction Sun feels is right for them. When you're the CEO of their billion-dollar company, then you can decide what "the right direction" for Sun is. Until then, stick to working on things that are your own responsibility. There's nothing wrong with criticism, but comments like "Suns License Sucks Ass" are just inciteful, and they really don't do much to further your standpoint.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
You're right - you have no idea. You can't even have a glimmer of an idea. There's nothing there to go on, and since you admittedly have no basis by which to make that assumption, it begs the question: Why did you post?
Moreover, it's just as possible that many clergyman are damned (if your beliefs extend to that possibility).
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Is anyone else out there sick of hearing the phrase "Well, they're good for graphics..."???
That's such a load of bull. First of all, architecturally, there's no basis for this argument. Nothing about the Macintosh makes it better "for graphics". Even from a software perspective, the industry standard editors/composers (like Photoshop and Illustrator) are available on *multiple* platforms. And when it comes to 3D graphics, I'd just as soon have an Irix or NT system.
Now, if one were to install Linux on a Macintosh, almost all the software issues (not that there are many) would vanish. The architechtural difference are encapsulated by the OS and the applications are mostly source-compatible between the Intel and G4 systems. It's not like you can't find a three-button mouse for a macintosh.
So not only is a mac not useless, but it is also not any "better for graphics" than the equivalent PC running NT or 98. This is basically stereotyping in the worst way.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
The corporate guts? Are you kidding? Do you think download.com goes over every stupid shareware/freeware application that get's put on their site? Of course not. They probably didn't even know it was there, for crying out loud.
They do now, of course.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Slashdot Mirror
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
/. has been covering Amiga news quite a bit since the recent flurry of news surrounding them and Transmeta. Doesn't it make sense that they'd post an article about the people who made the Amiga what it was? I'll agree that there are more appropriate topics for Slashdot, but I think that Amiga-news has its place here. After all, there are certainly some Amiga-fans among our ranks.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
The reason I post early (when possible) is so that my comments won't be lost in a mass of other comments. It has nothing to do with Karma -- I don't mind having my posts moderated up, because it makes them more visible, but I'm not doing it for the karma.
Still, you seem to think that my posts are worthless. That's fine. But realize that, if my posts are crap, it's not because I'm just spouting off garbage to get moderator points. It's because I'm a moron. I guess, once again, it's all a matter of point-of-view. Someone who agrees with me would probably see this point as interesting and reply with something on-topic.
Incidentally, I actually am 18 years old. I don't know if that really says anything about me as a person though. I'll bet a lot of /.ers are around my age. I have actually read some fairly interesting posts from people who I know to be 14. But this is all coming from an Anonymous Coward. It's impossible for anyone to track anything you say -- I find it in decidedly poor taste when ACs criticize logged-in members about their posting habits. There's nothing there to compare it to. Moreover, if you feel so strongly that everyone on Slashdot (with the notable exception of jd) is posting for the karma, then I don't see why you stick around. Unless you really like jd that much...
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Do you think he'd open source the lyrics?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
First of all: What the heck do I need with more karma? I've already got 74 and it's not like they're going to give me another +1. Moreover, I didn't even use my +1 on that last comment. Sheesh.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I know that sounds silly, but really it depends on your context. If you're a record-label executive, Cher might be quite a bit more important than BP. In fact, in most places other than the Open Source Community, BP isn't very important at all.
I guess my point is that this isn't anything special. Everything is a matter of point-of-view, but in any situation there are people who are put into positions of importance (like Perens in the OSS community). It happens and when it does, these people either learn to handle the responsibility that comes along with it, or they drop out of the limelight and let someone else do the job. And, yes, that is possible and would not be hard for someone like Perens to do.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Come on, that whole page could be summarized in a few words:
"Site's hitrates go up when news-sites advertise stories on said servers."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
What doesn't make sense to me is why they would bother with Chernobly anyway. Would there be anything salvagable from the original working system? I would've thought that the whole thing might have fallen apart.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
That said, there are a lot of applications out there that ask people for donations. The GNU homepage encourages donations to the FSF and the OpenBSD site does the same with regards to hardware.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I mean seriously - why do we need it? The FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD systems are just as painstakingly careful with their release-system as the Debian people, so it's not like we'd be getting a more mature development cycle, right?
On the other hand, there really aren't any "distros" to speak of with the BSDs. I wonder why... It would seem that a company willing to put a bit of effort into ease-of-use could become the RedHat of the BSD world. In fact, they could probably go head-to-head with RedHat in terms of OS sales. Doesn't everyone here always say "competition is good"?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Following that, it's easy to see who the under-dog to underdogs like Linux are. BSD? Hurd, maybe? Anything that has less supporters is, by definition, the under-dog.
To your last point, I can easily see there being an underdog to certain Open Source implementations. Look at the individual licenses: There are varying degrees of freedom in the Open Source world. The BSD license is arguably more free than the GPL license. That doesn't make it better, but since most of the free software out there today is under the GPL, it does make the BSD-license an underdog. It all depends on how you look at it, I guess.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
So, while I agree that games are lacking, I also feel the need to point out one of the reasons -- We need to get better graphics support. I know that XFree86 4.0 will be out soon with DRI support, but will it work with OpenGL in hardware, using more chipsets than we have now?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Nobody's forcing anyone to develop software for Sun. If your boss decides that it's in the best interests of your company, then that's his problem (and yours), not Sun's. Look, lawyers are not going to come busting down your door, as long as you don't break the license. Don't think the license if fair? Tough shit. Don't use it then. But, for the love of God, stop complaining about how much these licenses are evil and corrupting. It's a free market -- if you don't accept their terms then vote with your feet and use a different vendor.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
The fact is: The Open Source Community -- especially the Linux faction of it -- are getting greedy. We're so used to having everything for free, and completely open, that we're now berating companies that don't cater to our demands. Well the truth hurts, but you can't have everything for free. Companies are going to want to hold on to their IP, and licenses like the GPL and BSD don't do a whole lot to help them maintain that hold.
So, yes, I think this is a step in the right direction. In this case, the right direction is whatever direction Sun feels is right for them. When you're the CEO of their billion-dollar company, then you can decide what "the right direction" for Sun is. Until then, stick to working on things that are your own responsibility. There's nothing wrong with criticism, but comments like "Suns License Sucks Ass" are just inciteful, and they really don't do much to further your standpoint.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Moreover, it's just as possible that many clergyman are damned (if your beliefs extend to that possibility).
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
That's such a load of bull. First of all, architecturally, there's no basis for this argument. Nothing about the Macintosh makes it better "for graphics". Even from a software perspective, the industry standard editors/composers (like Photoshop and Illustrator) are available on *multiple* platforms. And when it comes to 3D graphics, I'd just as soon have an Irix or NT system.
Now, if one were to install Linux on a Macintosh, almost all the software issues (not that there are many) would vanish. The architechtural difference are encapsulated by the OS and the applications are mostly source-compatible between the Intel and G4 systems. It's not like you can't find a three-button mouse for a macintosh.
So not only is a mac not useless, but it is also not any "better for graphics" than the equivalent PC running NT or 98. This is basically stereotyping in the worst way.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
They do now, of course.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."