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Quake III Arena Demo Test for Linux
We're being barraged with submissions that the Quake 3 Demo Test for Linux is now available, along with Win32 and Mac versions for the OS-challenged. I just tried it and the download was maxing out my DSL line, so I guess the Sandpiper guys are on the job.
only 3 chipsets that have OpenGL support in hardware (Nvidia, 3Dfx, and Matrox)
But a 4th, ATI, will be supported next (openly, at that). With those 4 your have basically 75% of the graphics card market anyway, don't you? You're missing Intel, Number9, and Permidia, but those are all pretty small now. I guess S3 is the only thing left to worry about.
my tnt card doesn't work well in q3test, I don't recommend buying nvidia cards for linux
It looked awesome...until it froze. Does it have issues with either a TNT card? Or smp issues (i remember reading way back that carmack had something aginst smp) - hrm......
Thanks a lot, it worked great.
Know ye not that ye are Gods???
There are library problems with the various versions of MesaGL and GLX floating around - mainly because you have to use prereleases for all but voodoo glide cards (and even then, the new voodoo glide open source DRI drivers are prerelease...)
/etc/ld.so.conf
*However* that's because they're all under development at the moment - they will, eventually, be integrated into XFree 4.0, so around RedHat/Mandrake 7.0, it'll all be automagically setup - the modular driver system's already in place, just xf86setup/probe support is lacking.
Also, library problems on linux are easier to deal with because of
i) Sane versioning system
ii) alterable global path in
iii) $LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable for fine tuning
iv) $LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD for badly-behaved program forcing.
It's still confusing for the newbie - but there's a sane pattern behind it, so at least they have a hope of understanding it.
The release verison of XFree4.0 will include DRI (direct rendering infrastructure) modules for 3dfx, nvidia, G400 and ATI cards (These four have open-source drivers).
I run a dual celeron 550 with a v3 3000. Let me clarify about my statement that "I don't have to worry about the OS crashing": I don't necessarily mean that q3test was doing it. I crashed hard once in q3test because I enabled r_smp 1 and couldn't get out of the game. Other than that, NT would crash every single time I tried to run Nero, the cd burning software that came with my cdrw. Various other programs just as Musicmatch Jukebox would cause a BSOD everytime I double clicked on it. I have friends who will let their dvds and cdrws sit useless in their computer or put it in another computer rather than install the drivers and "screw their NT install". Anyway, I digress. The point is that I know i can play q3 in linux and not worry about crashing before, during, or after. I can't say the same of NT.
Jeremy
Looking for a Python IRC bot?
Probably 100,000 Linux users read the story about the Linux version being pulled from the UT cd. I'm willing to bet you Brandon got less than 50 hatemails.
We will never get away from that half a promille of the Linux users who behave like children (mostly because, well, they are children).
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
I'd recommend a Matrox G400 MAX. They're currently the "best" cards performance wise under linux, since matrox opened up their drivers relatively fully, comapred to nvidia. They'll also give very good performance on quake3, since John Carmack's been fiddling with the drivers :-).
They're also very good cards in their own right.
The TNT2 benchmarks marginally faster, but when run side-by-side, the G400's display is prettier, IMHO, and you'd be hard pressed to notice any relative slowdown.
CDRom.com has it for all 3 platforms. ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/idstuff/quake3/
The reason you are going to be moderated down to a troll is because you are nit-picking on a comment meant as a joke. You obviously need to get real. Seriously, you sound like you are about to have an an anuerism. Calm down! Repeat after me, "It was just a joke". Seriously, I don't see how you link OS-Challenged to your (3) argument. IF you just come to /. for science news, trust me there are *way* better resources for science news than /. on the web. You obviously come here to produce posts as the one I'm replying to which is evident by the vigor and vehemence apparent in your post.
If you would grow up it might help. Linux zealots attack programmers at Epic and it's Microsofts fault? What a loser.
naw, it's a feature :-)
This little bit of spam on our beloved /. is rather rude. The cards at this pathetic site are both crude and stupid, but the fact that the owners of the site felt the need to do this is beneath contempt.
/. readers to their site. Email the people who supply them with advertising, Burst! Media, and point out to them that the owners of this site are spammers.
I would suggest hitting them in the very wallet that they wish to fill by getting
If enough of us do this, in the very least we won't have these bothersome posts from the owners of Monkeysucks, and at the most we may get that and them losing their advertisers.
Who said people don't use 500watt speakers with large screen t.v.'s?? I have a 400watt surround sound setup with TV-output. But guess what, PC games can be modified and allow add-ons. And consoles?...stuck with the original thing. Plus, tons of demos/shareware for the pc platform. If there's any console I'd consider, would be the X-box. Beefy hardware setup. =)
Sadly, I have to agree on the `availability' point. I have a Millennium II, and I've _heard_ it's possible to do q3test on it, but I haven't found out how. So I tried the q3test in software emulation (80x60x0.5fps), and now I want 3D-acceleration even more... Nobody have a clue on how to get a Millennium II (or Millennium I -- Q3A without texture mapping, yay!) to work? (I simply don't have enough slots on my motherboard to put in a 3D card...)
/* Steinar */
(This comment is of course GPLed.)
http://bluesnews.ga meaholic.com/idgames.d/idstuff/quake3/linux/
Bummer, the Win32 version plays great on a K6/300 (not even a K6-2) and a 16meg TNT card (old original one). It would be nice if ID would include a software mode like UT does for people who have excellent processor support but either lame or simply unsupported video cards for OpenGL.
Note that said itp mirrors explicitly violate iD's no redistribution policy. So go ahead and be an asshole if you must.
So, if you are saying the truth, then this itp mirror actually mails you a CD, huh? Or is what you say is just damp flatulance.
/checks www.quake3arena.com
Yup. You've got a gas problem. Better grab the pepto.
-sw
I haven't checked any mirrors yet, but from what I see here the demo won't be showing up on any magazine coverdiscs due to licensing restrictions.
This really bothers me. Not everybody has Cable/DSL/T3 in their area. On a 56K modem it takes FOREVER to d/l it. I understood when the test was d/l only, I figured they didn't want people to be running a 3 month old version by the time they got their copy due to publishing delays.
Now we are apparently in the same boat when it comes to the demo of the final game! Is there a legitimate reason? Or has id decided that all "real" gamers have moved into metropolitan areas served by high speed access? Perhaps all the bandwidth they are used to has made them lose touch with what many of us face?
According to Brian Hook (who was at id at the time he made the comment), id has put in the necessary software support to use 3DNow and SSE instructions within the quake3 proper. So driver support, while nice, isn't going to be the only place we get benefits from our instruction sets.
I would hold off on a 3dfx board. Right now they aren't "the best" (whatever that means) and they are going to have new product out in March which should be a lot better than what they got now. If you can only buy 1 card and you have to have it now, the GeForce 256 based cards are fastest. If you can afford two cards, buy a TNT or TNT2 for cheap and then get one of the new 3dfx cards in the spring.
-sw
Just out of morbid curiosity, how did your system get that number?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
TNT works ok. I wouldn't call it well :) I disagree with the previous poster though. And I think things are picking up steam very fast.
What's this 300bps? Hah, what luxury!
BBSs were much more fun on a 110bps teletype!
PCs suck for gaming, period. Serious gamers are console gamers. When I play games, I want to see a projection screen with 500 watts of surround sound. If you want to sit huddled in front of a postage-stamp-sized screen with scratchy sound out of a pair of shitty speakers, be my guest. :-)
:) Go out and buy any decent mini system from Sony/AIWA/JVC/et al. Hook it up to your $50 SbLive or Aural based card. And my 17" monitor may be smaller than my 35" TV, but it certainly has a much better picture than my TV be far. Plus when the urge arises I can hook my computer up to my TV. But the urge seldom tweaks my bottom. Have a great weekend! :)
LOL! Dude you're living in denial or something.
-sw
I just installed the RPM, and when I run linuxquake3 I get the following messages:
...loading libMesaVoodooGL.so.3.3: Initializing OpenGL display
...setting mode 3: 640 480
Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 0.8
XFree86-VidModeExtension: Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo
Received signal 4, exiting...
Anyone know what the problem could be? Thanks.
Anyway, check out the OS of the next Internet Quake server you play on. You might be surprised.
FreeBSD! (yeah yeah, I know, flamebait. but it's true.)
Right now the next quake server anybody plays on will most likely be 98 or NT. Just a simple fact given the release time of the linux version.
Does the linux version support the middle wheel on microsoft mice? Its nice to be able to switch between weapons with the mouse.
Let's hope that the word actually gets out that such a thing as Quake 3 for Linux exists. Games are (sadly) one of the major blocks for people from moving to Linux, and if they realise that they can still play the best FPS they'll be one step closer!
(Who cares about spreadsheets, when you have Quake?)
That sucks! Yeah it does "work" but the lighting effects are gone now. I'm not sure if it is the code in Linux or what but zoom is all messed up too.
They said:
---
Actually, one of the guys that comes to our regular lan parties is in the same boat as you. A few games of q3 or halflife and he's about to hurl. What he uses is an elastic band that fits around your wrist and has a plastic bit that presses on a presssure point that alleviates your motion sickeness. You can probably find them in a drugstore. I don't have a specific name of brand. Hope that helps.
---
End They
And i spew:
I've always had that problem with Descent, Freespace, and other games like that... The ones with the full 3D range of movement in all directions... And for some reason to a limited extent, I think Tomb Raider on the PSX.
But Never in Wolfie, Doom, or Quake or HalfLife.. But definitly try the plastic wrist-pressure-point band thing... I think I've seen them in Walgreens and in some of the bigger chain drugstores...
---
I don't spellcheck
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http://thepoliticalgeek.com/blog/ Politics for Geeks.
I can now play quake with my linux boxen networked with my mac and pc's. Lets here it for id software.
I'm getting the same problem- is it a bug in the drivers? I'm really beginning to think so. I've had some funky problems with one of my friends OpenGL stuff he's been tinkering with and getting it to run on mine. However, Q3 does work with libMesaGL.so, but incredibly slowly (I didn't even get past the option screens). I know the 128 is kind of an old card, but under windows it runs Q3 perfectly. I guess with the current alpha drivers from nvidia I shouldn't expect much (I can't wait for XFree 4.0)...
But besides that, has anyone been able to load it with the nvidia drivers and the 128?
Still not dead.
So how does Sandpiper work? Distributed proxies? It seems kinda sketchy.
~Chris
Anyone think they can mirror the executables only, not the pak file? For those of us that dual-boot and already have the Win32 version, it would save, oh, about 30 minutes to 5 hours on the download =)
Unfortunatly nvidia still doesn't understand OSS. Their driver is slow, and worse: There code is garbage and they have released no specs.
Good luck waiting.
After all this, you're gonna download Q3 and do it all again?! Yessir.. that's the general idea...
--
This is the demo TEST. This is NOT THE FINAL DEMO. They are going to release a final demo, and it will be on coverdiscs and whatnot.
lol! luxNOSPAM@antisocial.com
Who here is old enough to remember this from the good old days of b4 Doom? :)
--
Deepak Saxena
Deepak Saxena
"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers" - Picasso
There are ^M characters in the README.Linux file. =) lol! Heh heh. =)
AC (about to go on a spewing spree...)
I've also done this for *.au/*.nz users.
/ q3demoTEST-1.10-5-NOPAK.i386.tar.gz
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/q3demotest/linux
1,201,886 bytes
-jason
Have you set the environment variable MESA_GLX_FX=fullscreen ?
You say that about 14% of all web content is served up by MS servers? It seems to me that 14% is an awefully low number. Care to guess what the other 86% is composed of? My guess would be that the remaining percentage would be made up of NON MS servers - which implies somthing such as UNIX. Linux, Sun, and every other server not made by Microsoft. After all, 14% is an awefully small number. Not to mention that web and ftp serving software is built into Linux. Of course, you sound a little sarcastic, and if you are, never mind this post.
Probably both :)
(I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
Attention:
QUAKE IS NOT OPEN SOURCE.
I will not install it. It could damage my machine!!!
Lets just focus on scrapping Windows, 'kay?
Hmm...
I have been sitting here for a few minutes trying to figure out what fantasy land you come from.
Can't figure it out.
I haven't been able to get Windows to work for any extended length of time without something causing a GPF or something of the sort.
Now for a personal story: I just downloaded RedHat 6.0 and, with much guidence from the local Linux group, got it to setup and play Q3 Test Demo.
No amount of coaxing will get Q3 to run under Windows. The closest I got was running 1/2 screen in purple. That was after downloading new drivers.
Enough rambling... What I think I am trying to say is that all OSs have their strengths and weaknesses. While Windows is usually easier to use, it has it's limitations. As does Linux.
You can't come straight out with absolutes such as "You're a liar" and "Windows is faster for games than Linux." It will differ from game to game - heck - from person to person.
Umm, I said Q3 test, not Q3 demo test.
The first q3 test (as in months ago) came out on Linux first. The demo test (As in a few days ago) came out on mac first.
They ran the first version off to Linux users because 1) Less 3d cards (only one at the time) 2) smaller userbase then win32 3) better bug reports.
Then then released the mac then win32.
This is getting stupid.
I figured out how to run it. The "couldn't get visual" problem is because there is only 4MB of memory. You have to remove the large virtual desktops from your XF86Config file, so that the desktop (note, not display) resolution is smaller. Then it can get a visual.
However, I find that I still only get about 20fps in corners and 2fps otherwise. Clearly it isn't hardware accelerated, as it is with the same drivers and RIVA TNT2. I can't figure out why. I'm fairly sure I'm doing everything correct (16bit etc.).
--
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
Well, you *could* always ignore the license and get it home :)
/.'s mantra "if it isn't free it must suck"???
Again...I wonder why you people support something that you are going to have to pay for. Isn't
a little consistencey please people!!
Technically, this is the same way the windows drivers work.
The latest GLX does Direct rendering by default if you are running as root, so there really isn't any performance loss caused by X
I too am having strange problems .. with Q3Test 1.08 all the lighting effects were fine .. my Voodoo2 handled them very well, especially as I have ample processing power (Celeron 433 @ 541). Now in the demo test there are all kinds of problems. Has someone reported this to id?? Also I am getting SLI soon, is that supported in Linux?
Hmm I try to run Quake3 and it loads the game in a small screen.. well kinda small (600x800) and it's really really sloww. I tried running it without libMesaVoodooGL.so.3.3 and I get this: XFree86-VidModeExtension: Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0". Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0". Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0". ... Couldn't get a visual ...WARNING: could not set the given mode (3) ----- CL_Shutdown ----- RE_Shutdown( 1 ) ----------------------- ----- CL_Shutdown ----- ----------------------- Error: GLimp_Init() - could not load OpenGL subsystem Any ideas on how to fix0r this? :)
It works great with my RIVA TNT2 at work. However, at home (with the test and this demo test) I haven't had luck with my RIVA 128. I am using the same driver (X server and libGL.so) but I get this error:
Couldn't get a visual
How can I fix this to work at home? Please email.
--
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
Hhmmm. Perhaps we can the q3/linux community a service and plot download times by ISP and date/time of day? November 21st, 11:00AM CST, TimeWarner RoadRunner in Memphis, TN, USA - 52MB in 2 minutes, 8 seconds.
The Norton Anthology of English Literature, 4th Ed., Vol 2
Yes, I've had the same problem. I'm using the kernel OSS drivers, but it locks up after afew minutes. I've had to disable sound.
not quite. q3 only supports opengl officially, which in turn is only officially supported by ati. for 3dfx you use mesa, which still works but isn't officially supported, for whatever that's worth.
-- the opinions stated above aren't those of my employer. in fact, they're probably not even my own. you know what, ju
tnt or voodoo 1 cards dont play q3 very well anywyas =p
I've never run Quake on Linux, but I was under the assumption it would be running windowed under X. Is this the case?
I have a voodoo3 3000 and I installed all the drivers. I can get Q3 to run but it's in a small box (not fully screen) and it's runs super slow. I can get the game started so I know the glide drivers are working, it's just small screan (about 600x600) Any help on how to fix this?
i've now mirror'ed q3demotest for people trying to
download from australia/new zealand (only - unfortunately).
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/q3demotest/
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/q3demotest/
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/glsetup/
-jason
kid
Hey guys,
I could (1.08), get Q3 to load with a TNT2, but it went god-awful slow. Is there something you did to make it run faster? Is the problem fixed with Q3demo, etc?
If you could, reply to sblack@bigfoot.com
Thanks,
Ateran
I'm not flaming you, I just wanted to point out that raw percentages are rather mis-leading: even 1% isn't really terribly small. Percentages are just not a good means for convaying magnitues.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
I beleive that's a server message (ie sent from the server).
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
A while ago I took the binaries for Q3Test 1.08 and posted them on cdrom.com for all those who had the Windows version and didn't need to re-DL a 50MB pak? Could someone do the same for the Demo please? I know it would only be like 1meg and taring a directory is easy as pie (just make sure you don't tar the pak along with it).
;)
Please? I mean, they should already do this over at iD, but someone just do it for them. I did.
yeah
It is wiser to have HTTP access first. On the server end, web servers handle heavy traffic better than ftp servers do. On the client end, all firewalls and security schemes are usually configured for transparent web browsing while FTP may or may not be configured and it isn't as transparent.
I don't think you know the slightest thing about gamers. I think its a broad generalization that they bring nothing to the linux platform, i think thats somthing that geeks should try and stay away from. Programmers, artists, and designers work on TC's all the time. How else would you have CTF? Quake players are a avid, hard working computer user group. They are twice as hardcore, and have twice the gusto as any /. poster. So don't try and tell them they can't install redhat. Not only are they incredible apologists, I bet half of them work to further the quake community in some way. And the other half is testing the software the others make, and unlike some others they make sure to let there problems known and help in any way they can to make that software better.
They use windows because nothing runs on Linux. And I have to agree with them any Unix is hardly a viable desktop platform. They want to play there games, let them
Rob
"Are you satisfied with fucking?" - Dave Matthews from "Halloween"
You say those names like they are insignifigant. Most people who will play Q3 are going to have one of those chipsets on there cards. The only other big one is ATI, but drivers for those are comming soon. Its going pretty well, accept that the nvidia drivers are so damn slow.
You know what? The thing flies!
It's really cool that JC digs G400s so much. I'm gonna get me a G400 MAX real soon now.
Does the Linux version support SMP yet? Just wondering if my dual pent will stand a chance this round...
I have q3demo on my TNT w/Nvidia X server working after some effort; I just had to enable 640x480x16bpp in X.
FPS is really weak though, definitely 15 on my p2-350. Hopefully the drivers will shape up soon so I can buy the linux q3 box.
I had this same issue a while back. The trick is to pour over the development mailing list for the answers. :)
Basically, there was a branch in the Mesa CVS tree. In order to compile the latest glx-mga driver for the G200/G400, you need to update your Mesa CVS sources like so:
cvs update -r mesa_3_2_dev
That will get you up to date.
I have to say, I really love my G200. I have followed the progress of the glx driver almost from the beginning and it runs great for an incomplete driver. The new q3demo runs significantly faster than the most previous q3test.
Nothing can possiblai go wrong. Er...possibly go wrong.
Strange, that's the first thing that's ever gone wrong.
Tyler's words coming out of my mouth.
voodoo cards tnt/tnt2 cards matrox g200/400
It was the Mac version, to the great surprise of everyone. Id said it was easier to test on the OS that has fewer users. :-)
-Kvorg
Yeah, I guess they fixed something. /usr/local/lib didn't work for me, but I copied the one from my glx source tree (what I should have done in the first place) and it worked fine.
I couldn't get a framerate that was even close to playable in 1.08, but in 1.09 it runs just fine.
In addition to the already mentioned use-16-bit color tip, you also need to use the right libGL.so. The one from
hmm. Don't know what you did wrong but I'm getting a quite playable rate on my g200 (p350 smp). 1 fps sounds like you're using software mesa. First thing you wanna do is have XFree 3.3.5. Next thing you wanna do is go read a nice howto at http://www.execpc.com/~tz/linglxqs.txt. Open up the faq at glx.on.openprojects.net in another window and you should be set. Good luck!
I want to be able to set up a Q3 server on a Lan with only one computer running as a server, I was wondering what is the minimum requirements for the server?
that's the problem with cable, and more will see it as they all get on. It's SHARED with everyone in your local exchange. If everybody is on as much as you then you all get 56k speeks. You have to wade through local traffic and then big-pipe traffic, that's why I chose DSL, fast & steady (and (roughly) twice the upstream)
+&x
Yes, the above post did work for me. Your results may vary.
Thanks da3dAlus
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Well that sucks. I'm getting around 250-270KBps on my Prestige cable. Sure beats ISDN, which I was paying MORE for until I switched. If I were you, I'd drop the service, it can't be worth it.
Well, I live in the countryside so it'll be a while before people start downloading as much as I do! Besides, in another year or two I predict that the speed of cable modems will multiply by at least a factor of 10. That's why I'm leasing the cable modem for $10/month. I can't see paying $200-$250 to own one when it will be obsolete before I get my money's worth. Plus, DSL is not available in this area yet, because it's the boon-docks, and I can always "upgrade" to that later.
Thanks!
:)
I just went ahead and pulled the current source of glx off of their cvs, and replaced my older version. The new version is great! It's actually playable.
Thanks for the impetus to upgrade my library
~Chris
What do you mean by "games?" Do you mean the free games that come with every redhat CD? If you count those as games, then Linux already has games, and your point is moot.
If, however, by "games" you mean "proprietary retail boxed games," then I do not agree with you that these games are necessary for success. Remember that Linux does not need enormous popularity to succeed. Other platforms such as Mac, OS/2, or BeOS need to be popular to succeed, since the pace of advancement on these platforms is dictated by the company that sells the software, and the resources of that company are constrained by product sales. Linux, on the other hand, can thrive as long as there are interested users. Any interested user has the freedom to improve the source code.
Certainly there is no doubt that a lack of boxed retail games will hurt Linux's popularity. It might even hurt Linux's chances of succeeding. But it will not, as you claim, doom Linux's chances of succeeding. Even without games, the pool of interested users coupled with the open source nature of the code is enough to ensure Linux's continued progress for a long, long time.
Are you kidding? "The Glorious MEEPT! wants to join all the divided factions of Linux into one big divided faction" was probably the funniest thing I've ever seen on Slashdot.
Seems pretty easy to me, 128MB plus 16MB = 144MB. So the system probably has some old, slow 16MB SIMM, that is slowing the system down more than necessary.
For those of you out there using a TNT2 or a G400 or G200, just point the r_GlDriver thing or whatever it was to your /usr/X11/lib/libGL.so or whatever client library you're using for glx. S'what I do here. Running it on a pii 266 .. i remember when my computer was a decent box. when more than 3 people come in view, boom, man it's slow.
on a similar related note.. I heard nVidia actually updated their resource manager so it's mostly ported to 2.2 linux kernels. ( Last one supposedly didn't even work on 2.0 which it was coded against ). Anyone try this out ?
rm -rf ~/.signature
DSL line is Digital Subscriber Line line!
I was worried about the bots, after all of id's past monsters have had a collective IQ of about 12, but these guys are pretty good. I'm also very pleased that the game runs so well on my relatively old, slow hardware - P2/266, 64MB, 12MB V2.
All I have to say is that Quake3 and Linux rocks. A few weeks ago, I got a p133, mainboard and 48 megs of ram for 10 bucks. I figured I'd use it as a masquerading, samba, apache, ftp, etc for my other pc (An AMD 450, with a Voodoo3) hooked to a cable modem. I play games that aren't available for Linux often, so it would be nice to have two boxes instead of having to reboot all the time. I got it all set up, even figured out how to run a Q3 server through the firewall on my windows machine. The bad thing was, that when more than 2 people were playing, the cpu was bogged down and pings jumped sky high. So, I couldn't run a server and play. That sucked. I figured, I'd at least need a PII or AMDK62 to run a server on the linux firewall itself. I tried it anyway. To my suprise, 10 player server, full ran 70-95% cpu, no slowdowns on a P133! Funny, in windows on my K62450, 5 player server runs 60% cpu.
On a sidenote, Quake 3 runs faster (about 4 fps) in Windows because of the beta quality voodoo3 drivers. Hopefully this will change!
Wherever you are, there you are.
The Voodoo 2 simply isn't fast enough to do the lighting effects properly - a friend had the same problem on windows.
To reiterate what has already been said, READ the fine info supplied, before going off half, er, cocked...... Then again.. there has been a lot of silly to downright stupid complaints against 3dfx recently/after the V4-5 announcement... 3Dimage 975 compared to a V3?? V3 obsolete?? Hrmmmm... is that because the GeForce is out a big month now, and a little faster? Sigh...
that's friggin hillarious. The whole BBS phone call bit I mean. Major deja vu, Probably had that exact same conversation myself.
If you're on windows and you're playing quake3test instead of unrealtournament beta you're just wasting your time.
50mb came down the pike in 5 minutes. Pshew... long way from the bad ol' days of:
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
OS-challenged. A start to something? Something about what a real OS is ? :)
Anyway, Q3 is cool, but the FPS guys are gonna have to start coming out with really different stuff if they want to keep people coming. Its almost reached the limit hasn't it? Quite a few teamplay games, some interesting single-player ones....
Well, somewhat true. Voodoo1 and Voodoo2 takes over the CRT, so it'll automatically be fullscreen (if you connect a diffrent monitor to your Voodoo you'll see that X is still unning as usual in the bg). With a MGA Gx00, you have the choice of running windowed or fullscreen. The only thing is, fullscreen is really only "windowed-up-in-the-left-corner-of-the-screen" while the resolution is changed to make it look like fullscreen. It works fine though. :)
/Svenne, aka Kerberos
Slagborr
Red Hat 6.1, amd K6-300 - q3test 1.08 works fine, but q3demoTEST does this: ... ----- R_Init ----- ...loading libMesaVoodooGL.so.3.3: Initializing OpenGL display ...setting mode 3: 640 480 Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 0.8 XFree86-VidModeExtension: Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo Received signal 4, exiting...
Red Hat 6.1, amd K6-300 -
q3test 1.08 works fine, but q3demoTEST does this:
...
----- R_Init -----
...loading libMesaVoodooGL.so.3.3: Initializing OpenGL display
...setting mode 3: 640 480
Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 0.8
XFree86-VidModeExtension: Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo
Received signal 4, exiting...
the "OS challanged" has had q3 test for months. while you were getting off on partitions and text editors, I was kicking ass in q3 - lord^soth
Before I spend the time and diskspace to download this sucker (50MB is a lot, esp since the license terms don't allow me to grab it at work and bring it home on a ZIP disk)...
What video hardware does it support? I got burned in an earlier Q3 test because of an unsupported video card. To be fair, at the time, they were supporting -one- video card.
Or more generally -- I wasn't able to find any hardware requirements listed on the Q3Test pages. Anyone know what they are?
Trying to argue that consoles are better that PCs on features alone is pointless. You can .always. get a better gaming system on a PC than any console if you throw enough money at it.
consoles are better in terms of price/performance.
Quality of games available might be another argument.
scratchy sound? We must be really weird to listen to all the near CD quality mp3's everyone here has on cheap speakers. You plug your PC into your stereo.
Im personally not bothered about a few fps difference in speed between windows/linux if it means i dont have to keep booting into windows to run games. As long as the speed difference is not too big then im happy.
looking at unreal tournament and quake3, 'cross platform games, more of your please' is all i can say.
Rather dissapointing that we're at a point where every week a new graphics card comes out with a proprietary chipset yet we can only run games on one chipset introduced 5 years ago that costs twice what most chipsets cost nowadays. 3DImage 975: $30 cheap. Voodoo 3: $73 obsolete.
Has anybody else had their TNT2 X-Server crash while playing the new Quake3 Demo?
I couldn't get a framerate that was even close to playable in 1.08, but in 1.09 it runs just fine. In addition to the already mentioned use-16-bit color tip, you also need to use the right libGL.so. The one from /usr/local/lib didn't work for me, but I copied the one from my glx source tree (what I should have done in the first place) and it worked fine.
Hopefully I won't get moderated into oblivion with this comment, but doesn't this remind you of trying to get something running on Windows?
I mean there's still a major difference: You can get intelligent help with Linux, but the base problem still exists... Wrong libraries, bad drivers, undocumented gotchas... Is this a graphics/desktop-related thing? I mean I never have these kinds of troubles on my servers, but sure as shit, I do any kind of desktop apping on Linux and run into the old drivers/libraries problems...
As mentioned, you can actually resolve these problems under Linux, as opposed to the usual "reboot, reinstall, it's the other guy's stuff" answers you get with Windows, but I just noticed this as I read this morning...
I got annoyed with having to use NVidia's 3.3.3.1 X server, and their glx.so module wouldn't work in 3.3.5, so I compiled their source against 3.3.5.
The binaries are available here.
Doesn't seem any faster than their 3.3.3.1 server, but at least it lets you use 3.3.5.
I can't tell if this is offtopic or flambait. Help me out.
Finkployd
I'm downloading this at 250 kb/sec !
For those of us with only dialup access, this is really annoying. If anyone sets up an FTP mirror post it here, so I can get it to my shell account at my ISP at least :)
- Chuq
Honestly, I run it in Windows with no problem. fps could be better (and I could do with a higer res) but I didn't have to turn any effects off to get a working game.
Slashdot seems to be the first one to report this. i went lookin for mirrors and bluesnews hasnt even posted about it yet. neither have any of the other quake news sites
"there's a big difference between kneeling down, and bending over" - FZ
If you have the ZAxisMapping setup correctly as outlined in the setup for imwheel, then it will work. I'm currenly using it under the newest XFree 3.5, and it works fine.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
>While games can run well in Linux, Quake 3 >included, they can not look nearly as good as in >Windows.
I beg to differ. Q3 looks THE SAME under linux as it does under 98. So does Kingpin for that matter. Perhaps you are just unable to grasp detail level settings?
>As for Voodoo cards running games decently, I >don't give a fuck. If the operating system can >only make games run good on 3dfx cards, then >it's a shit operating system for gaming. 3dfx is >going down the drain. But even if it weren't, it >would still be shit.
THe operating system has NO PART in determining the cards that are, or aren't supported. That is up to the manufacturers, who to this point have been less then accomidating with their specs. nVidia has opened up a bit now, as have ATI and Matrox. If you understood any more than "Click here to start!" perhaps you would already know this.
>My system is no slouch.
That's because you believe in the "Upgrade every two weeks" mantra. I laugh at you.
>I am no newbie.
Wow, you're right here. You're an IDIOT. There's a big difference in the two.
>I have never seen a decent game both look and >run nearly as good in Linux as it does in >Windows (or even Mac for that matter - and >that's just sad!), Quake 3 and Kingpin included.
Well, if you had ever run anything other than windows perhaps I would give you some credit.
But I'm not that nice.
I've read a lot of posts, and I've gotten a lot of hateful e-mails from fools like yourself who would call me a linux bigot. And I'm sick of it. I don't go around spouting GARBAGE like these posts, and then claim to be pure of spirit as you would like to think you are. I don't ever hold my OS above any other, and in fact I run 4 of them on this system, and use all of them more or less daily. I KNOW what runs better on my system, and I use it preferentially. That is Linux. I have q3, Civ:CTP, Kingpin, and all those shitty "minesweeper" type of games on it. I never have a hiccup, and the performance on my old "shitty" banshee is more than good enough. I can't say the same about nt, win2k, or even win98 for that matter! The only advantage to any of those is 3dnow! crap in the banshee drivers under win98, and you know what? That only gives me 5fps MAX.
So why don't you go grow up, and perhaps try and expand your seemingly limitless knowledge. Try new things, maybe you'll be surprised.
Or will mommy and daddy get mad if you mess with their new computer?
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
it's funny, but I used to remember that one by using:
Stir PIS POop Dip
yuck... and it's embedded in my mind forever... =P
I'd like to take this opportunity to complain about my cable provider.
My friends and I have cable modems from Bresnanink. I've had the fastest connection (in linux) with a one time speed of 160k/s. All six of us average 35k/s. And this is for downloads; small things like web pages are barely faster than my dialup connection.
These speeds are terrable. It doesn't make much difference what the setup is (options, os, card, etc.). It's not my hardware either (dual PII 600, 128MB RAM).
A phone call to Bresnanlink showed just how bad it is--we have some of the *faster* connections! And this is what *everyone* is getting!
Has anyone had anytrouble running q3 under the OSS sound system? Those are the sound drivers from 4Front which you have to buy. The game locks up on me after about a minute of playing. Oddly, Q3test worked well. 4front hasn't helped yet.
You don't need a great video card when you play a game. A game should be judged by how it plays not how good the graphics are in it. Although in many cases graphics do enhance the experience sometimes we forget that gameplay is more important than special effects. If your video card works with Quake3 and your not over concerned about the graphics in the game don't go and buy a new video card.
Here.
Could somebody upload a pak-less .tgz to the cdrom.com Quake 3 directory for those of use who already have the Win download? One of you cable modem freaks could upload it in about 2 seconds, and it'd save us 56k'ers a whole lot of time. Thanks!
I copied all of my Q3demotest files into my q3test directory. After that it just worked... I'm supposing there was a missing library file or something. Does anybody have anymore info on this?
HTTP here.
FTP here.
--
Ian Peters
I've posted a tarball of the Demo without the Pak files included for all of you who requested it. It is located at http://www.glue. umd.edu/~spong/q3demoTEST-1.10-5-NOPAK.i386.tar.gz . I don't know if this is violating any kind of license, so Id Software: let me know if it is and I'll take it down.
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
Well, the thing is, I don't think my cheap video card can even run it. I'm going to try, but I'm already convinced that it will flop.
But after all this great information, I am seriously cosidering a high-end video card.
--
Scott Miga
suprax@linux.com
That's exactly how I got 144 megs of ram.
As for the old 16MB SIMM, yes, it does slow down the system a tiny bit, but nothing noticeable.
--
Scott Miga
suprax@linux.com
It works beautifully with my Riva TNT2.
Give me unix and common sense anyday over some shlep who can't fix a server if the mouse stops responding.
I was just wondering what kind of system it was that those pictures were taken on?
I have a AMD K6-2 400, with 144 megs ram, but a cheap video card.
The game should look good if I get a good video card, but what does everyone suggest? And is my system fit for running smooth and looking good in q3?
--
Scott Miga
suprax@linux.com
On a fresh install of Redhat 6.1 + the latest drivers from 3dfxgamers.com : Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 0.8 XF86DGA Mouse (Version 1.1) initialized XFree86-VidModeExtension: Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo Received signal 4, exiting... Also UT demo goes insane about cannot create sockets
I am having some problems installing the latest mesa CVS that's needed for glx. I have Mesa 3.0 installed, but when I install glx it reports "Mesa 3.1 or above needed." Then I read some info on the FAQ over at glx.on.openprojects.net, and it stated the glx driver will only work on Mesa 3.2. Well, 3.2 isn't out, and I can't get the cvs version to compile correctly. The cvs version seems not to have the maklib files. Anyone have some suggestions? I really want to get q3 going. Kevin Higgins
One thing I found out from the Linuxquake.com forum is that you cannot use the .RPMs. They just don't work (for Q2 at least.) Get the targz'd one and run the ./riva_install script, it should work. I got Q2 running fine (well, slow but better than S/W) on my TNT that way, and Q3 worked out of the box when I installed that...
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I got that game in the 9th grade when we got a 486 in our house. My friend was lucky enough to have a soundcard in his machine, so we mostly played at his house. I had only played Nintendo and cheesy 286 games, so the realism of Wolf3D used to freak me out -- I just knew there was a German around every corner....
According to somebody who commented on the game at linuxgames.com said that by replacing the MesaVoodooGL.so.3.3 with MesaVoodooGL.so.3.1 from the old q3test 1.08 will fix the problem.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
FreeBSD forever!
For all you fucking smart asses out there who would reply about my comment on games because it's a vulnerability and you think you'll be special if you exploit it, let me add to it.
While games can run well in Linux, Quake 3 included, they can not look nearly as good as in Windows.
The only games that look and run good in Linux are the Minesweeper types of games. And you know what I mean by that.
As for Voodoo cards running games decently, I don't give a fuck. If the operating system can only make games run good on 3dfx cards, then it's a shit operating system for gaming. 3dfx is going down the drain. But even if it weren't, it would still be shit.
My system is no slouch. I am no newbie. I have never seen a decent game both look and run nearly as good in Linux as it does in Windows (or even Mac for that matter - and that's just sad!), Quake 3 and Kingpin included.
-cow
Look at the DNS records for the server the download is from. There's like 9 different DNS servers for it.
but my K6-2 300 with a Matrox G200 is unplayable.
About one fps.
Any tips?
~Chris Carlin
I just played the new demo for a few minutes with r_smp set to 1. Looking at asload afterward, it looks like q3 was just using one processor. That's disapointing.
1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 -- Mathematics is the Language of Nature.
That that games any reason I'd pick an OS, but Myth II ran better on Linux that Windows by every account I've seen. I know it did on this box.
Hey, is anyone having problems with the video from this game? I mean, it all looked great for a time, but then suddenly the walls and ceiling started flickering madly and I could no longer see my targets! This did not happen in the previous test.
To note, I have a Voodoo 2 card and I am using the given driver.
Know ye not that ye are Gods???
From what I can decipher about your illiterate post, I'll comment.
If Myth II runs decently (never tried it), it's the only game that does. Or possibly that and another. But it's doubtful, even that.
-cow
Isn't this like lynx headquarters?
Sure it does buddy, do some timedemos and post the results. Wanna bet linux is behind windows? What are you talking about things always crashing? q3 has never ever crashed on me with NT4.
It's still telling me that a new build is available.. Buglet?
Hmm. My PIII 500 w/ G400max running linux is outfpsing my roomates PIII 600 w/ g400max with the same settings right now. So.. What the hell are you talking about?
You're a liar, that's what I'm talking about.
Windows is faster for games than Linux. If you have to lie to promote your OS, then your OS has some very serious problems. There is no possible way that Linux is faster. Your post has proven that Linux users will stop at nothing to shamelessly lie about the performance of their "operating system."
So go on, moderate me down as a Troll again.
Errr...
I might point out that the above post was exactly what the poster was complaining about.
Narrow mindedness seems to run rampant here.
There is no technical reason that a game running on the same system under different operating systems would play any differently. All the operating system does is schedule jobs and ensure efficent use of the hardware.
Software is a TOOL, nothing more, nothing less. Once people get that through their heads, the world will be a better place.
I use Linux because I happen to like being able to look at source code. I like being able to modify things to do exactly what I want, rather then almost what I want. You just can't do that with Microsoft products.
Anyway, check out the OS of the next Internet Quake server you play on. You might be surprised.
(I am only an egg)
(I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
Last time I d/l Q3 it was something like 25 megs, now it's 52??? How could a new build jump 25 megs in size??? Did they fusion power it or something? geez!!!
while I agree with your sentiment about killing linux users, I have to say that we should use guns instead of knives .. knives are just too messy!
Now there was a frood who really knew where his towel was. Probably wasn't fully up on where his ritalin was though. ;)
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
The q3 test came out for linux first. The demo (latest ver) for windows came out a few days ahead. Mostly because johnc was still polishing off the g2/400 GLX driver for linux before releasing q3test.
I'm getting >40fps with 32bit textures, and trilinear filtering here w/ a g400.
http://glx.on.openprojects.net/
Of course they lie. I remember one posting regarding security where a guy claimed that he will continue using Linux and recommending it for his company no matter how many security flaws and oversights were found...because it wasn't microsoft. These people are generally psychos and they're looking for a club to belong to and the "Linux Enthusiasts Club" has got very low standards.
Hmm. My PIII 500 w/ G400max running linux is outfpsing my roomates PIII 600 w/ g400max with the same settings right now.
So.. What the hell are you talking about?
If you'd like some help fixing your obviously broken system, I'd be glad to help.
Hun? Are you at my house? Then how do you know whats going on. I could be screwing up the performance test, or lieing. But you have NO way to know, I'd like to think that the right thing to do would be give me the benifit of the doubt.
:)
It's obvious you know nothing about Linux OpenGL performance on the G400 as you claimed in your orignal post that Linux only supported the 3dfx. When you combine this with your claims that my Linux simply CAN NOT be faster, then you prove that *YOU* are lieing.
I'd like to know why you think that Linux is so poor for game performance? If you can bring up a real issue I'd be glad to fix it for you, I'm preety handy with the kernel source.
If you are going to slam Linux, why don't you try some issues that are more obvious, and less arguable (and perhaps something you know about).
Such as:
There are nowhere near as many commercial games released today for Linux as there are for windows.
Linux is more difficult to use for gamers.
All 3d hardware drivers except Glide (3dfx), are beta.
The Linux G400/G200 GLX driver locks up the computer with some apps (not q3 as I've found though, helps that John Carmack is one of the primary driver developers).
...ETC lots more.
If you have no intrest outside of games, then Linux isn't currently the best choice for you.
This is because of three reasons:
1. Most commercial games today arn't released on Linux.
2. The 3d hardware drivers for Linux are not mature for most hardware.
3. Most distributions arn't geared for gamers, and most linux games dont install themselves. So Linux is a little harder to use for this task.
However, since Linux is free you can try it out on your system at no cost (cept time, but since you are a gamer I assume you have that). You might learn something.
That doesn't mean that Linux won't be better for games soon. The G[2,4]00 drivers for Linux are currently outperforming the windows drivers for some apps (quake2) by a wide margin, and these were developed without the assistance of the hardware maker.
Linux offers much better scheduling latency then windows, but 2.2 (and somewhat 2.3) kernels still have some jitter problems. Still, Linux currently offers better then an order of magnatude difference in latency from WinNT. (never seen latency benches on 95/98). This is a big factor for game performance.
I dont understand why you need to be so negitive about Linux.
If Linux 'sucks' as you say, then dont use it. If you do end up needing to use it, at least it's free and will most likely work fine on the hardware you already have. The only thing you have to lose it the time it takes to learn something differnt... and if you are afraid to learn, I feel sorry for you.
Hmmmmm..
Would I rather my company spend money on?
a) An operating system, user licenses, support, downtime.
b) My salary.
Microsoft is a business. They are out to make the most money possible. The methods they use to do that may or may not coincide your needs. If the methods do, then congratulations. However, if you buy into Microsoft's vision (which I might add, is a rather tasty sounding vision), and they suddenly change business strategies.. Where does that leave you?
(I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
Good one troll. It's a no physical media distribution (CD-ROMs, Zip disks, floppies) policy.
In theory this means ftp/http mirrors, copying across LANs, are fine, whereas all other forms are out.
In practice I doubt whether id will care if you download the demo and take it to a friend on a zip disk, or if you both download the demo. I believe it is intended to stop distribution of the tests on magazine CDs.
- Chuq
What are you talking about? The TNT and G[2,4]00 work fine in Linux now. They have been a while coming because Nvidia and Matrox neither released Linux drivers or specs. Now that they are supported they work fairly well.
It's not the OSes fault if hardware makers don't do the needed stuff to get supported.
Well, I don't know.
..)
.. I've just got a plain-jane computer with a plain-jane graphics card. And Linux is clearly the superior Quake environment. For me, at least.
:-)
:-)
See, I'm still using an old Pentium-133 (I'm not a real hardcore gamer, and a P133 Linux machine gets the job done for me; I've got a 450 MHz Pentium II at work that runs Windows NT, and I can discern no difference in performance between my "slow" Linux box at home and my "fast" NT box at work. Now, I realize that I must be a liar since I use Linux and claim that it works better then NT, but before you kill me, let me expound a bit
I never really got into Quake 2 that much, because I frankly don't have the machine for it (either in Windows or Linux.) I did, however, spend a lot of time playing the original Quake. And I can testify to the fact that Quake was a *lot* better under Linux than it was under Windows. I got a noticeably better frame rate using the Linux binary than I did using the Windows binary. I don't have any sexy graphics hardware
Yes, I know Quake is an old game. Yes, I know you think I'm lying. I really don't care. But Quake is a game, and it runs better in Linux than it does in Windows. And that pretty much shoots your premise (that "all" games run like "shit" in Linux") to hell in back.
Oh, by the way: "Windows is the ONLY way to go for gaming?"
Gimme a fucking break
Here's some words for you to chew on:
Dreamcast
Playstation II
PCs suck for gaming, period. Serious gamers are console gamers. When I play games, I want to see a projection screen with 500 watts of surround sound. If you want to sit huddled in front of a postage-stamp-sized screen with scratchy sound out of a pair of shitty speakers, be my guest.
Thanks,
Maxxed out at 230k/s via my rogers@home cable connection. You GOTTA like that! 50mb came down the pike in 5 minutes.
Is an entirely legit and on-topic post in relation to:
The rest is just a comment about the pleasures of developing online connectivity. The clear observation then is that there's at least one moderator who needs to review the moderation guidelines.I'd also like to point out that, alas, the Riva TNT driver and libGL provided from NVidia will *NOT* work with the demo as currently released. I'll keep hammering on it, but I'm up to video-lockout #3 here and rebooting is getting somewhat annoying.
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
Thats silly. How would you like it if I judged all windows users by one users posts.
I can see it now:
All windows users: "are bigots, who can't count to ten, can't spell their names, who can't turn on their computer, who use aol, who fuck goats up the ass while singing stupid songs from the 1950s" just because I saw postings from windows users who do these things.
Perhaps you were misrepresenting that poor chaps post. Maby his intention was to say "I dont care how many security holes Linux has had, the OpenSource development model insures that such bugs are squished quickly and effectivly, and it also ensures that few are out there. Because of this I will continue to choose linux"..
Why don't you chill? K?
obviously the driver support is lagging under linux right now.
that problem will be solved..
the real problem is getting developers to stop dicking around with direct(x|3d)and use a portable api ala opengl
Dude, while I did write the post that you just replied to, I didn't write the original post here. I was just counter-trolling the troll that did, in the hopes of soliciting a reply from him. You don't need to convince me of Linux's superior performance .. I see it on a daily basis.
Sorry, bud.
i think...
"It's Brazilian"
Everyone's been posting about downloads, and gripes with drivers, but has anyone actually played the game? I've got good performance with my G400, but I want to know if the latest build is actually faster.
Ah yes, I know how that is.
My home computer is just a lowly P166MMX, although I must say I've worked pretty hard to upgrade everything else (128MB PC100, SB Live!, V550 PCI), and I see absolutely no difference between this and my PII-450 at work (well, except that it has a cheap AGP card).
Of course, when I dual-booted FreeBSD (I need to buy a new MB/CPU so I can use this one as my router/server box), I couldn't even get the GLX drivers to compile - but that very likely is not only crazy mismatched patches, but also my relative inexperience with BSD.
I can understand where this fellow is coming from, as one must admit Windows driver support is generally quite a bit ahead of Linux (and for newer hardware, light-years ahead of FreeBSD). In fact, the whole reason why this is a W98 machine again is because I *REALLY* wanted to frag my brother-in-law on the LAN (made up of equally decrepit computers), as well as the need for office tools and so forth.
Now that I've gone off and written god knows what, I've again come to the conclusion that I really need a Linux box.
Providing Thetan's(TM) safe-haven for over 18 years!
I play my favorites on my 32" TV and my Pioneer surround system, and I'm using a PC. Plus, I get wordprocessor and Internet functionnality toi boot. I haven't seen many of those Playstations get a Slashdot webpage on their projection screen yet!
My video card is the Intel i740. Last release it didn't work with Q3. I can't seem to find a list of supported cards. Does anyone know whether this one will work? Thanks, -Anonymous Coward
On a related note, PCs are really shitty platforms for games. Every 5 months you have to fork out another 2 hundredb ucks for a new video card so you can play a game. WOOPTEE FUXIN DO. I rather pay 1 time for a console, and live with slightly worse rendering.
Well you didnt do your homework Quake 3 GREW UP ON THE MAC!