Besides the fact that it is a window manager for BeOS, are you going to agree with me on exactly what makes a "really good window manager"?. Will you be lock step with me in every little nuance and minor feature? Will you absolutly agree with me on everything that should not be included in this ultimate window manager? No? Ok, now you know why there won't ever be "the one window manager". Until you are willing to give up all of your own personal opinions and blindly follow someone else, whom you have never met, there can never be just one project of any type. There will always be a different one for you than the one for me. Enjoy that freedom to be different. It's a good thing.:)
FYI, I had the exact same problem when I upgraded to 1.0.3. However, I wasn't using this new google proxy. I finally tracked it down to a misbehaving extension. Once it was disabled, I was able to get firefox up just fine.
yeah, respond to this post if *you* or *someone you know* is actually engaged in testing Linux software at the code level.
You rang? Shall I take a message for the five others that I can think of faster than I can remember when my wife's birthday is? It exists as more than a theoretical potential as well.
I will have no problem with companies that do this with any of their products when I can pay with capital that is only good in the same country/region and cannot have its regions switched/exchanged to another.
I'm sorry Ms. Fiorina, those are Luxembourg Euros and they are not valid in Finland. It is also illegal to attempt to surmount the protection by attempting exchange or alter those Euros in any way. You will have to purchase identical Finland Euros with your American Dollars at the going rate of one Euro for fifteen American Dollars. Will that be acceptable? Ok, good. Here is your bill. Oh wait, are those are Rhode Island American Dollars...?
That makes perfect sense to me as I also see patterns in the same way and have had the same experience with it freaking other people out. I wouldn't be surprised if you routinely see "patterns within patterns" and "patterns of patterns".
> i find it particularly frustrating in areas...
I agree. If you are to be qualified for something then you should be able to understand the various complexities that arise. Granted, no one will get everything perfect, within their claimed area of expertise, but it is aggravating when they have a 50+% failure rate.
> but - basically...
Again, I have to say "ditto". It doesn't matter whether you are being dishonest with me or someone else. I get really peeved. The same goes with hypocrisy.
> and it gets me into difficulties
That is a good way to put it. This makes me wonder, what would a group of similar inviduals like us be able to accomplish? Would we fragment against each other or would we be able to accomplish far more than has recently been seen? Perhaps someday I shall have the chance to find out.
The idea sounds interesting, but after checking it out I wonder if wikinews is really the correct name for it. I could very easily see this evolving into something more akin to a wikiblog.
>Does your mom charge you for Thanksgiving dinner?
No she does not. Now, since I was the one who purchased the dinner from the grocery store and prepared it, I would be rather offended if she did. So, to make sure I understand you, since I bought the meal, prepared it, and opened my house for the family, I get to "fix" their computers? I don't think I follow. Would you mind explaining a little more? Does it mean that if I let them do all of the work I get to "break" their computers or do they have to fix mine?:P
It would appear that you hold the parents responsible for enforcing the rules when it comes to their children and education. To suck it up, be the bad guy, be the hardass, and what not. I am a parent myself and I feel it necessary to say that you are absolutely correct.
Parents are responsible for ensuring that their children obey the proper authority figures/institutions and don't just buck the system "cause they want to". My children will not have to worry about detention or in school suspension should they be caught constantly skipping class, for their real worry will be what awaits them when they get home and I find out.
Now I firmly believe in individualism and freedom, and I am also against orwellianism. However, I also believe that with that freedom and individualism comes a responsibility that must be upheld. And how do my children feel? Well I think their freely given hugs, kisses, and "I love you"'s speak for themselves.
I just wanted you to know there is at least one parent out here who both agrees and is willing to pay higher taxes in order to pay teachers a lot more/provide better teaching resources.
Perhaps I can explain my comment. As one example, I am refering to the following situation.
On a package/dependancy system I may wish to install app A that depends on library L of version 1.2.3. I may very well be forced to locate that exact version of the library app A was comiled against. It may very well be that it would work just fine with 1.2.4 or 1.2.2, however I have no choice.
On a package/compile system I can just rebuild the package against the libraries that I have on my system and be done with it. No hunting down an absolute specific version. Should the version of library L on my system be too old, the configure script will catch that. I just grab any new version, compile it and I am ready to go.
Hence why I stated "the majority of the dependancy problems". Briefly I had to face it by grabbing a new version of the library but I was free to grab any new version. Likewise, I could even substitute a compatable library if I wish. A good example is the old motif and lesstif libraries. I dont have to find the one compiled for the libaries I have or can get. I just compile against exactly what I have.
As for the homebrewed database idea I have to be honest. I find that a little nuts myself, no offence meant. I don't use or require one. Since I am compiling specifically on my machine I can also control the install path. That being the case you will find that the example app A will be installed in/usr/local/bin/A.5.6.7 with a symbolic link going from/usr/local/bin/AppA to/usr/local/bin/A.5.6.7/AppA. This makes it clear as to what was installed directly with app A.
My "make uninstall" is a simple "rm -r". No special script needed, since everything is under that directly, there is nothing missed. And I believe that the rm command is very well documented:P Ok, I am just being silly there, please don't take offence. Nothing is wrong with those who prefer dependancy style installs, I just have not determined a need for them myself.
Hopefully that helps you understand why some of us really prefer to compile instead of using dependancy management. Keep in mind, I am not saying you are wrong if you prefer that, I am just explaining why many of us are different. If you have any other questions along the lines of "Well how in the heck to you deal with (whatever)?" I would be glad to explain. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how much "non chaos and non confusion" compile style systems are. Cheers:)
I cant agree more. I have never been wild about rpms and the like. However, I won't knock somebody else if they like them. I am just happer compiling on my own then wrangling with dependancies. I do feel sorry for them when they have dependancy problems since it seems so unnecessary to me. But hey, each to his own, birds of a feather, and all that bit. The diversity makes a better and happier community and that is what matters. This is why I oppose any overly zealous conformity argument. You wouldn't be happy with what I would like and the reverse. It is also not required for a successful platform. The fragmentation and continued success of Unix already disproved that argument before Linux arrived. So enough of my rambling, cheers to all, donate to your favorite distribution, toast and have a drink.:)
As a Slackware person I have to agree. I find "./configure; make; make install" easy and it does seem to avoid the majority of the dependancy problems. Something about knowing the binary exactly fits my system is nice. That said, I also must point out that large binary apps, like OpenOffice, are rarely a problem binary wise.
I wanted management to understand just how hard all of our system administrators work at keeping the systems available for the rest of us. So I took it upon myself to make it obvious. I just panic'd all 217 of our servers at the same time. Happy System Administrator Appreciation Day.
Slack is living in the early 90's with its "package management" tool
The comedy here is that many Slackware users have felt the same way about RedHat's dependency management. Microsoft already demonstrated how miserable it can be. To us RedHat is living in the early 90's with their "dependency management" tool. Been there, done that, already know it sucks when something gets awry, reminds me of dll hell only now its on Linux. I am still hoping Solaris doesn't jump on it whole hog. Eeech.
Before you flame me RedHat guys, keep in mind I am not saying you are wrong or right. You chose your distribution because you liked and felt like you needed dependency management. Nothing wrong with that. Slackware users didn't want dependency management, in that form, and we chose our distribution with that in mind. Ninety nine percent of the time you don't have the problems I associate with current attempts at dependency management. Be aware that ninety nine percent of the time we don't have the problems you associate with not having your style of dependency management.
Slack's got a shitty package tool. Fucking accept it!
It's elegant in its underlying simplicity and trivial in its ease of use. Just select what you want and say install. If it is these attributes that you oppose then I am not sure I can help you. I do hear, however, that they have openings for a kernel developer for Longhorn.
I believe you have the cart before the horse. Slackware packages make use of tgz, they did not define tgz. I seriously doubt that a single Linux distribution, Slackware, convinced the maintainers of tar to support their extension, and somehow all of the other distributions could not do the same. I am refering to the -z switch on tar in this situation. The.tgz (or.tar.gz) was just a convieniant thing for Slackware to use to group and compress its package contents.
Erm, no. I use virtual desktops and web browser that supports tabs, just like I do on my Linux machine. Keeping applictions sorted on different desktops and my browsing sorted via tabs and seperate windows is much more efficient.
Case in point: When KDE 3.2.3 was released a few days ago, I might have downloaded the source and installed it myself as soon as KDE madeit available
How interesting. I was just talking to a coworker who is very familiar with the RedHat side of things. He was unsure of how easy it was to upgrade things on Slackware without the rpm tool. I pointed out that within a half an hour of the KDE 3.2 release I had it downloaded and compiling. A few minutes after that it was installed. No issues. just a simple./configure;./make;./make install. He had to wait for the rpm to become available before he could try it out. This isn't to imply that RedHat took forever to make the rpm available. It just shows that I can react faster than relying on someone else to package it up for me. I dind't even have to wait for an official Slackware package. Likewise I believe it demonstrates that upgrading something as large as KDE on Slackware is very non-complex even without an rpm style dependancy manager.
In a typical home, perhaps not. I cannot be the judge of that. However, as I live in a historic home well over a hundred years old, running cable is not as easy as one would hope. Cutting new holes into the walls just isn't appealing either as the desire is to keep the house as "originally" intact as possible. Thus, wireless has been a great thing for me.
A wonderful side benifit is that I can place my systems anywhere and am not contrained to walls that have poth power and a network tap. LAN parties are so simple. (I have plenty of extra cards for my friends). We can setup wherever we can find space. Hauling the laptop around without wires and still being on the net is great. To move to another room I don't have to disconnect from the net. I can just leave everything running and walk with ease to wherever I want. I don't even want to think of having my PocketPC "wired".
Hopefully this helps explain why some of us really "love" wireless. (Written as I sit on my front porch swing in the warm sun.)
While I am familiar with the SysV init scripts I will pose a question here that I am not clear on. The above claim states that it is very easy to re-order daemon startups. Would someone mind explaining how this can be easily done dynamically? I am talking about the system using the scripts in a different order based on what it discovers as it boots up. It has never been quite obvious to me so I am willing to hear an answer before I just go off and say "SysV can easily re-order daemon startups so long as you only do it staticaly and not dynamically at startup."
From my experience the people who prefer BSD init because it is "simpler" are just people who do not want to take the 5 mins to understand SysV and set it up properly.
Seriously, do you work at Microsoft? I have heard this same thing with respect to completely securing IIS.
If you want to stop something that is running with BSD, you have to kill it manually - that sucks. With SysV you do, say "/etc/init.d/apache stop".
Slackware:/etc/rc.d/rc.apache stop
And you dont modify scripts or whatever in order to add or remove programs from the startup list - you use a tool for that
It could be argued that your tools is doing the modification on your behalf. However it isn't clear what you mean by modifying scripts. I would not consider changing file permissions a modification of a script in this context.
Slackware: chmod +x/etc/rc.d/rc.apache
tada!, apache on startup, no need to ever edit any script and most important, an easy way to stop and restart system processes. Though, or a restart, I would suggest "/etc/rc.d/rc.apache restart" instead of individual stop and starts.
Why on earth would you do that?
Because that is how it is defined to be done on Slackware. Simple and sweet.
Use the tools your distro provides
The checking for the +x during startup is provided by the slackware startup scripts. Thus, we are indirectly using the tools provided by the distro.
RedHat/Fedora/Mandrake: chkconfig mysqld off
Gentoo: rc-update del mysql default Debian: update-rc.d -f mysql remove Those things are much simpler IMHO than tracking down some filesystem permissions issue later.
I would content that chmod -x/etc/rc.d/rc.someserver is much simpler than the commands you have provided. Since all of the scripts are in/etc/rc.d they are not hard to locate. chmod is also a very standard unix command and well documented.
Suppose they change the behavior to not directly exec rc.whatever, but rather do something like/bin/sh/etc/rc.d/rc.whatever, now you're sunk. Your rc.whatever will be run even if +x isn't set..
As the behavior of checking the executable bit is an integral part of the startup script processing, this would be a drastic change to the standard setup. You make a drastic change to any system's default behavior and you will always be sunk. It would be just as plausable to say "What if they changed 'chkconfig mysqld off' to return true if mysqld was configured to not run at startup?" Or perhaps you would prefer "Suppose they change the behavior to not indirectly exec rc.0/00whateverS and instead directly exec/etc/rc.d/whateverS. Your whatever will be run even if the link isn't set." Again, if any distro makes such a dramatic change then you will always have to change what you are doing. RedHat, Gentod, Debian, DistroX, have nothing special that can avoid this issue.
Oddly enough I have a similar setup yet different results. With three pc's, two laptops, two WAP's, and a wood frame house, the only place that receives a signal is my living room. Everything else within a six mile radius is a complete black hole. So I wouldn't bank on the interference theory. Perhaps we live in opposing quantum universes? If so, stay where you are at. Everyone here thinks Microsoft produces high quality operating systems.
Slashdot Mirror
Besides the fact that it is a window manager for BeOS, are you going to agree with me on exactly what makes a "really good window manager"?. Will you be lock step with me in every little nuance and minor feature? Will you absolutly agree with me on everything that should not be included in this ultimate window manager? No? Ok, now you know why there won't ever be "the one window manager". Until you are willing to give up all of your own personal opinions and blindly follow someone else, whom you have never met, there can never be just one project of any type. There will always be a different one for you than the one for me. Enjoy that freedom to be different. It's a good thing. :)
FYI, I had the exact same problem when I upgraded to 1.0.3. However, I wasn't using this new google proxy. I finally tracked it down to a misbehaving extension. Once it was disabled, I was able to get firefox up just fine.
Most of these were borrowed from Latin and come in the form of PostusAnonymoForgetus.
You rang? Shall I take a message for the five others that I can think of faster than I can remember when my wife's birthday is? It exists as more than a theoretical potential as well.
"How should my friend present it so that it makes sense to them?"
Based off of samples from my doctor's handwriting for prescriptions, may I suggest the Linux font 'scribble'?
I will have no problem with companies that do this with any of their products when I can pay with capital that is only good in the same country/region and cannot have its regions switched/exchanged to another.
I'm sorry Ms. Fiorina, those are Luxembourg Euros and they are not valid in Finland. It is also illegal to attempt to surmount the protection by attempting exchange or alter those Euros in any way. You will have to purchase identical Finland Euros with your American Dollars at the going rate of one Euro for fifteen American Dollars. Will that be acceptable? Ok, good. Here is your bill. Oh wait, are those are Rhode Island American Dollars...?
I agree with the need for the new term.
I nominate "forceware" or "permaware".
Your not the only one.
> i see patterns...
That makes perfect sense to me as I also see patterns in the same way and have had the same experience with it freaking other people out. I wouldn't be surprised if you routinely see "patterns within patterns" and "patterns of patterns".
> i find it particularly frustrating in areas...
I agree. If you are to be qualified for something then you should be able to understand the various complexities that arise. Granted, no one will get everything perfect, within their claimed area of expertise, but it is aggravating when they have a 50+% failure rate.
> but - basically...
Again, I have to say "ditto". It doesn't matter whether you are being dishonest with me or someone else. I get really peeved. The same goes with hypocrisy.
> and it gets me into difficulties
That is a good way to put it. This makes me wonder, what would a group of similar inviduals like us be able to accomplish? Would we fragment against each other or would we be able to accomplish far more than has recently been seen? Perhaps someday I shall have the chance to find out.
The idea sounds interesting, but after checking it out I wonder if wikinews is really the correct name for it. I could very easily see this evolving into something more akin to a wikiblog.
>Does your mom charge you for Thanksgiving dinner?
:P
No she does not. Now, since I was the one who purchased the dinner from the grocery store and prepared it, I would be rather offended if she did. So, to make sure I understand you, since I bought the meal, prepared it, and opened my house for the family, I get to "fix" their computers? I don't think I follow. Would you mind explaining a little more? Does it mean that if I let them do all of the work I get to "break" their computers or do they have to fix mine?
It would appear that you hold the parents responsible for enforcing the rules when it comes to their children and education. To suck it up, be the bad guy, be the hardass, and what not. I am a parent myself and I feel it necessary to say that you are absolutely correct.
Parents are responsible for ensuring that their children obey the proper authority figures/institutions and don't just buck the system "cause they want to". My children will not have to worry about detention or in school suspension should they be caught constantly skipping class, for their real worry will be what awaits them when they get home and I find out.
Now I firmly believe in individualism and freedom, and I am also against orwellianism. However, I also believe that with that freedom and individualism comes a responsibility that must be upheld. And how do my children feel? Well I think their freely given hugs, kisses, and "I love you"'s speak for themselves.
I just wanted you to know there is at least one parent out here who both agrees and is willing to pay higher taxes in order to pay teachers a lot more/provide better teaching resources.
Whatever I can do for you let me know. I seriously owe you for all of the years I have used Slackware. Get well.
Perhaps I can explain my comment. As one example, I am refering to the following situation.
/usr/local/bin/A.5.6.7 with a symbolic link going from /usr/local/bin/AppA to /usr/local/bin/A.5.6.7/AppA. This makes it clear as to what was installed directly with app A.
:P Ok, I am just being silly there, please don't take offence. Nothing is wrong with those who prefer dependancy style installs, I just have not determined a need for them myself.
:)
On a package/dependancy system I may wish to install app A that depends on library L of version 1.2.3. I may very well be forced to locate that exact version of the library app A was comiled against. It may very well be that it would work just fine with 1.2.4 or 1.2.2, however I have no choice.
On a package/compile system I can just rebuild the package against the libraries that I have on my system and be done with it. No hunting down an absolute specific version. Should the version of library L on my system be too old, the configure script will catch that. I just grab any new version, compile it and I am ready to go.
Hence why I stated "the majority of the dependancy problems". Briefly I had to face it by grabbing a new version of the library but I was free to grab any new version. Likewise, I could even substitute a compatable library if I wish. A good example is the old motif and lesstif libraries. I dont have to find the one compiled for the libaries I have or can get. I just compile against exactly what I have.
As for the homebrewed database idea I have to be honest. I find that a little nuts myself, no offence meant. I don't use or require one. Since I am compiling specifically on my machine I can also control the install path. That being the case you will find that the example app A will be installed in
My "make uninstall" is a simple "rm -r". No special script needed, since everything is under that directly, there is nothing missed. And I believe that the rm command is very well documented
Hopefully that helps you understand why some of us really prefer to compile instead of using dependancy management. Keep in mind, I am not saying you are wrong if you prefer that, I am just explaining why many of us are different. If you have any other questions along the lines of "Well how in the heck to you deal with (whatever)?" I would be glad to explain. I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how much "non chaos and non confusion" compile style systems are. Cheers
>Different choices for different needs.
:)
I cant agree more. I have never been wild about rpms and the like. However, I won't knock somebody else if they like them. I am just happer compiling on my own then wrangling with dependancies. I do feel sorry for them when they have dependancy problems since it seems so unnecessary to me. But hey, each to his own, birds of a feather, and all that bit. The diversity makes a better and happier community and that is what matters. This is why I oppose any overly zealous conformity argument. You wouldn't be happy with what I would like and the reverse. It is also not required for a successful platform. The fragmentation and continued success of Unix already disproved that argument before Linux arrived. So enough of my rambling, cheers to all, donate to your favorite distribution, toast and have a drink.
As a Slackware person I have to agree. I find "./configure; make; make install" easy and it does seem to avoid the majority of the dependancy problems. Something about knowing the binary exactly fits my system is nice. That said, I also must point out that large binary apps, like OpenOffice, are rarely a problem binary wise.
I wanted management to understand just how hard all of our system administrators work at keeping the systems available for the rest of us. So I took it upon myself to make it obvious. I just panic'd all 217 of our servers at the same time. Happy System Administrator Appreciation Day.
The comedy here is that many Slackware users have felt the same way about RedHat's dependency management. Microsoft already demonstrated how miserable it can be. To us RedHat is living in the early 90's with their "dependency management" tool. Been there, done that, already know it sucks when something gets awry, reminds me of dll hell only now its on Linux. I am still hoping Solaris doesn't jump on it whole hog. Eeech.
Before you flame me RedHat guys, keep in mind I am not saying you are wrong or right. You chose your distribution because you liked and felt like you needed dependency management. Nothing wrong with that. Slackware users didn't want dependency management, in that form, and we chose our distribution with that in mind. Ninety nine percent of the time you don't have the problems I associate with current attempts at dependency management. Be aware that ninety nine percent of the time we don't have the problems you associate with not having your style of dependency management.
Slack's got a shitty package tool. Fucking accept it!
It's elegant in its underlying simplicity and trivial in its ease of use. Just select what you want and say install. If it is these attributes that you oppose then I am not sure I can help you. I do hear, however, that they have openings for a kernel developer for Longhorn.
I believe you have the cart before the horse. Slackware packages make use of tgz, they did not define tgz. I seriously doubt that a single Linux distribution, Slackware, convinced the maintainers of tar to support their extension, and somehow all of the other distributions could not do the same. I am refering to the -z switch on tar in this situation. The .tgz (or .tar.gz) was just a convieniant thing for Slackware to use to group and compress its package contents.
Erm, no. I use virtual desktops and web browser that supports tabs, just like I do on my Linux machine. Keeping applictions sorted on different desktops and my browsing sorted via tabs and seperate windows is much more efficient.
Case in point: When KDE 3.2.3 was released a few days ago, I might have downloaded the source and installed it myself as soon as KDE madeit available
How interesting. I was just talking to a coworker who is very familiar with the RedHat side of things. He was unsure of how easy it was to upgrade things on Slackware without the rpm tool. I pointed out that within a half an hour of the KDE 3.2 release I had it downloaded and compiling. A few minutes after that it was installed. No issues. just a simple
In a typical home, perhaps not. I cannot be the judge of that. However, as I live in a historic home well over a hundred years old, running cable is not as easy as one would hope. Cutting new holes into the walls just isn't appealing either as the desire is to keep the house as "originally" intact as possible. Thus, wireless has been a great thing for me.
A wonderful side benifit is that I can place my systems anywhere and am not contrained to walls that have poth power and a network tap. LAN parties are so simple. (I have plenty of extra cards for my friends). We can setup wherever we can find space. Hauling the laptop around without wires and still being on the net is great. To move to another room I don't have to disconnect from the net. I can just leave everything running and walk with ease to wherever I want. I don't even want to think of having my PocketPC "wired".
Hopefully this helps explain why some of us really "love" wireless. (Written as I sit on my front porch swing in the warm sun.)
While I am familiar with the SysV init scripts I will pose a question here that I am not clear on. The above claim states that it is very easy to re-order daemon startups. Would someone mind explaining how this can be easily done dynamically? I am talking about the system using the scripts in a different order based on what it discovers as it boots up. It has never been quite obvious to me so I am willing to hear an answer before I just go off and say "SysV can easily re-order daemon startups so long as you only do it staticaly and not dynamically at startup."
From my experience the people who prefer BSD init because it is "simpler" are just people who do not want to take the 5 mins to understand SysV and set it up properly.
Seriously, do you work at Microsoft? I have heard this same thing with respect to completely securing IIS.
Slackware:
And you dont modify scripts or whatever in order to add or remove programs from the startup list - you use a tool for that /etc/rc.d/rc.apache
It could be argued that your tools is doing the modification on your behalf. However it isn't clear what you mean by modifying scripts. I would not consider changing file permissions a modification of a script in this context.
Slackware: chmod +x
tada!, apache on startup, no need to ever edit any script and most important, an easy way to stop and restart system processes. Though, or a restart, I would suggest "/etc/rc.d/rc.apache restart" instead of individual stop and starts.
Because that is how it is defined to be done on Slackware. Simple and sweet.
Use the tools your distro provides
The checking for the +x during startup is provided by the slackware startup scripts. Thus, we are indirectly using the tools provided by the distro.
RedHat/Fedora/Mandrake: chkconfig mysqld off Gentoo: rc-update del mysql default Debian: update-rc.d -f mysql remove Those things are much simpler IMHO than tracking down some filesystem permissions issue later. /etc/rc.d/rc.someserver is much simpler than the commands you have provided. Since all of the scripts are in /etc/rc.d they are not hard to locate. chmod is also a very standard unix command and well documented.
I would content that chmod -x
Suppose they change the behavior to not directly exec rc.whatever, but rather do something like /bin/sh /etc/rc.d/rc.whatever, now you're sunk. Your rc.whatever will be run even if +x isn't set..
/etc/rc.d/whateverS. Your whatever will be run even if the link isn't set." Again, if any distro makes such a dramatic change then you will always have to change what you are doing. RedHat, Gentod, Debian, DistroX, have nothing special that can avoid this issue.
As the behavior of checking the executable bit is an integral part of the startup script processing, this would be a drastic change to the standard setup. You make a drastic change to any system's default behavior and you will always be sunk. It would be just as plausable to say "What if they changed 'chkconfig mysqld off' to return true if mysqld was configured to not run at startup?" Or perhaps you would prefer "Suppose they change the behavior to not indirectly exec rc.0/00whateverS and instead directly exec
Oddly enough I have a similar setup yet different results. With three pc's, two laptops, two WAP's, and a wood frame house, the only place that receives a signal is my living room. Everything else within a six mile radius is a complete black hole. So I wouldn't bank on the interference theory. Perhaps we live in opposing quantum universes? If so, stay where you are at. Everyone here thinks Microsoft produces high quality operating systems.