Yeah I'm sure dial-up users love slashdot too. The front page that I load is about 135KB (~39KB for images and ~95K for HTML). Lets say you get about 3.5KB/s (nobody gets the full 7...at least back when I had one) you are talking about 38 seconds for a load time...weeee
Hope my math is right..wouldn't want to get flamed:-P
It needs one desperately...if you were expected to still use it of course. A LOT of things that we are now using in 2.6 are not in 2.0. I could list them but it would take too long and I would probably miss half of the items.
My point is just that Windows 98 is 5 years old. Why should we expect MS to keep supporting it when you have other options. If you go with closed source you will eventally be faced with an end of life product with no options for upgrades/support. 5 Years is a pretty reasonable amount of time.
Just two examples...I could probably get more.
When was the last time a 2.0 series kernel was released with a new patch? Solaris 2.6 still has support but I believe it is EOL or will be very soon.
Well that is what you get yourself into when you buy closed-source. The reason redhat is attractive is because of what you stated. It is built on other software projects that continue to have support. Its a great point for making the switch from windows to Linux. How long do you expect MS to support windows 98 (5 years old now which is ancient in terms of software)?
Not everyone knows what a core team is in relation to this project
Given the above some may want a little reassurance that this isn't a major problem and that development will continue
Considering how ambiguous the release was, to most people, a little news on how this affects the direction of the project couldn't hurt anyone could it?
True enough. I did Nashua to Cambridge Mass every day for 2 years ( now I do manchester to cambrdige ugh why do I torture myself ). That road has been overloaded for way too long but I think when it is complete it will ease things a bit. They did plan it so that it can be setup as 4 lanes if they need more room. I guess they will just take out the breakdown lanes.
When I used it I couldn't wait until it was finished...now that I don't...I only watch with curiosity. When it is complete I can hopefully use it as an alternative when 93 is jammed up.
Most people do not take the multi-year contracts due to being shortsighted or uninformed. At least the people that I know. Most, like myself, do the plans because they don't want to spend $200 on a phone.
Go through life assuming things are free unless its restricted and see how far you get before you are in jail. Its a stupid assumption made by stupid people and hence the reason I brought up the warning on plastic bags.
When you walk past a TV store you are looking at things for sale. When you steal services like from some unsuspecting company/person that service is not for sale. There is a difference. The only way that would stand up is if an ISP had a network available for use in order to entice you to purchase something.
It is for people like you that warnings are on plastic bags "don't use as a toy".
I don't think people who say what the parent said are ignorant, instead I think they are trying to rationalize misbehavior.
Yeah and some people who own open markets give away free apples. Why should I assume that taking one every now and then is not OK? Afterall they didn't secure the apples within the store.... be serious.
...and I'll say it again. Vote with your wallet. Don't buy CDs...DVDs....go to the movies...don't go to concerts.
Let the RIAA/MPAA know that your not willing to spend money on their crap anymore.
Choose indie artists....listen to local music.
Otherwise...deal with whatever happens. The reality is that downloading music is illegal. So either let them know they need to meet us in the middle with either cheaper prices...easier ways to get the same material or by making it legal by creating your own lobby groups to influence government or by boycotting...or stfu and pay for your CDs...
I know that I've connected with at least 10 other people that had a similar problem with their TV as well as persuaded many others not to buy Sharp products due to my site. I also have seen other pages like mine that have done the same for me with other products. Some pages matter...and some are self-indulging fluff. I think having the ability to voice opinions...inform others...share information through the use of personal pages is great.
I don't know how you came up with $3173...what base model did you choose? This is a poweredge 650 that I'm talking about and both prices were before discount. I get the verizon discount from both companies so the end prices were different...but I do not have those numbers in front of me.
Your right though...still a big difference...I can't justify the additional cost of $1200. It just doesn't make sense for a DNS server....and frankly for a lot of other servers we run. If we need a replacement for our E3000 production Oracle server ( and we do soon ) then it might be a whole new ballgame.
Here is what I just quoted 5 seconds ago from their site...I think there was an additional discount a couple weeks ago that explains the $150-200 difference in price: Description
PowerEdge 650 PowerEdge 650, Intel Pentium 4, 2.4GHz, 512K, 533MHz, with Floppy / CDROM, No OS - Other
Qty: 1
SALE PRICE Price: $2,305.00
[save $50.00]
Date: Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:29:20 PM CDT Catalog Number: 4 04 Module Description Product Code Sku Id PowerEdge 650: PowerEdge 650, Intel Pentium 4, 2.4GHz, 512K, 533MHz, with Floppy / CDROM 65024 [221-2023] 1 Special Offer: SPECIAL OFFER - $50 OFF OL50 [461-3185] 120 Mail-In Rebate Offer: $100 Mail-In Rebate #40611! Redeem after system purchase at www.dell.com REBATE [462-0167] 56 Operating System: No OS - Other NOOS/O [420-4106] 11 Memory: 1.0GB DDR,266MHZ,2X512MB DIMM 1GB2D [311-2430] 3 Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Same Day 4Hr Response Parts + Onsite Labor (7 Days x 24 Hours) W3Y7X24 [960-1305] [950-8750] [900-2962] 29 Installation: No Installation NOINSTL [900-9997] 32 1st Network Adapters: Intel Pro 1000MT Gigabit Dual Port NIC 1000MDP [430-0569] 13 Hard Drive Configurations: C4, Add-In IDE Raid Card,Raid 1 with a 2 Hard Drive Configuration IAR1 [340-8081] 27 Chassis Configuration: VersaRails for Non-Dell Rack VERSA [310-4107] 28 Hard Drive Controller: 50% OFF! IDE RAID Controller, ATA100 / 4 Channel IDEFCHF [462-2182] 9 1st Hard Drive: 40GB 7.2K RPM IDE Hard Drive 40GB [340-8740] 8 2nd Hard Drive: 40GB 7.2K RPM IDE Additional Hard Drive 40GBADD [340-8750] 23 Chassis Bezel: Metal Bezel for the PowerEdge 650 with the Intel P4 Processor P4BEZEL [313-1700] 36 Keyboard: Standard Windows Keyboard,Gray S [310-1680] 4 Mouse: Logitec System Mouse, Gray L [310-3776] 12 Documentation: Electronic Documentation, PowerEdge 650 EDOCS [310-0438] 21 Purchase Intent: Purchase is not intended for resale. NOT4SEL [462-4506] 138 Monitors: No Monitor Option N [320-0058] 5
...but I don't have to. This is kind of like pointing out the obvious. If Microsoft isn't feeling any financial hurt they don't do a damn thing.
Some companies today listen to their customers and make changes proactively and a lot do not...but you are sure as hell going to see change when they are not making as much money.
Vote with your wallet...its the only vote anyone listens to anymore.
Two weeks ago. I was pricing out a low-end server to handle our DNS zones.
I looked at the V60x x86 based box with 1x 2.8Ghz CPU, 1G of RAM, 2x 36G disks a RAID controller and 3 years of On-site 9-5 4 hour response time support.
And among others we looked at a Dell 2.4Ghz CPU, 1G of RAM, 2x40GB disks, a RAID controller and 3 years of on-site 9-5 4 hour response time support.
We went with Dell because the cost of the Sun box with support was about $4,500.00 and the Dell box was about $2,100.00
The other option was to go with a sparc based server and we priced Sun's cheapest option:
The Sunfire V100 with a 550Mhz UltraSPARC-IIi CPU, 1GB of RAM, 2x40GB Drives, and the same support. This was lacking a RAID controller and to be honest we didn't price that piece seperately, or even see if its an option, because the price was about $2400.
So the only area where Sun is comparable on price is with the Sunfire line and we would need to purchase some sort of hardware based raid solution. I like disk suite and we could have gone that way without noticing it much...afterall it is just a DNS server.
But the reality is its still more expensive. I've seen the UltraSPARC II during software compiling and it isn't as fast as P4. I wish I could say I've done more benchmarking and I knew more about the internals of each of the chips to have done better benchmarking but at this point...why bother? Even if the UltraSPARC is a little faster...its not worth it...the P4 is already overkill.
I think every situation is different, we may be the extremes on each end but until we have problems with x86/Linux I can't make the case to go Sun anymore with myself and certainly not to mangement. We currently have Platinum support on the Sun hardware and will be moving to Silver come January for most of our equipment. I, like you, can have a tech in the office at all times of the day or night and I don't even have to ask nicely, but I don't see how that relates to hardware reliability.
My point was that hardware fails.... I have just noticed the Sparc hardware failing at a higher rate and just because Sun has better support, they do, doesn't make it any better when a part fails. That said, it makes it _very_ hard to choose a Sun product when evaluating new hardware when you take into consideration cost/reliability/performance.
You should care. Sun hardware ins't problem free. I take care of around 50 servers. Of those 30 or so are Sparc running Solaris. I have to replace a Sun part about 1x a month. I have a couple machines that have never lost a part and I have x86/linux boxes that haven't lost a part in years. I have support on all my machines and the x86/linux solution is STILL much cheaper. Even the support is cheaper and please don't start with "quality of support"...because Sun's support varies greatly depending on when you call. The techs that actually come out to do the work are mindless sub-contracted help and the first levels on the phone are pretty clueless as well....its only when you get to the engineers that you really get good people. I'd say the same is true for support from most other places.
I work in a Sun shop that is moving towards linux. One of the reasons we are moving is because the Sun products are too expensive and the price:performance ratio sucks. Now they are selling expensive hardware running linux instead of expensive hardware running solaris. Big deal. For most of our servers we'll just buy from cheaper vendors. We can build redundancy across computers and still save a ton of money.
For godsakes....can we quit with all the stupid "SCO makes yet another stupid claim" stories? Can we do exactly what they DONT want and ignore them? Every time I turn around there is another story about SCO...make it stop! PLEASE for the love of all things right in the world.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah I'm sure dial-up users love slashdot too. The front page that I load is about 135KB (~39KB for images and ~95K for HTML). Lets say you get about 3.5KB/s (nobody gets the full 7...at least back when I had one) you are talking about 38 seconds for a load time...weeee
:-P
Hope my math is right..wouldn't want to get flamed
gary@gatekeeper dict $ grep -i sco words |wc -l
1611
Other options I would choose:
Gentoo
Slackware
damnit where are my mod points when I need them...lol
It needs one desperately...if you were expected to still use it of course. A LOT of things that we are now using in 2.6 are not in 2.0. I could list them but it would take too long and I would probably miss half of the items.
My point is just that Windows 98 is 5 years old. Why should we expect MS to keep supporting it when you have other options. If you go with closed source you will eventally be faced with an end of life product with no options for upgrades/support. 5 Years is a pretty reasonable amount of time.
Yeah 5 year old OS's include:
Solaris 2.6
Linux 2.0 kernel
Just two examples...I could probably get more.
When was the last time a 2.0 series kernel was released with a new patch? Solaris 2.6 still has support but I believe it is EOL or will be very soon.
Well that is what you get yourself into when you buy closed-source. The reason redhat is attractive is because of what you stated. It is built on other software projects that continue to have support. Its a great point for making the switch from windows to Linux. How long do you expect MS to support windows 98 (5 years old now which is ancient in terms of software)?
possibley because:
Not everyone knows what a core team is in relation to this project
Given the above some may want a little reassurance that this isn't a major problem and that development will continue
Considering how ambiguous the release was, to most people, a little news on how this affects the direction of the project couldn't hurt anyone could it?
True enough. I did Nashua to Cambridge Mass every day for 2 years ( now I do manchester to cambrdige ugh why do I torture myself ). That road has been overloaded for way too long but I think when it is complete it will ease things a bit. They did plan it so that it can be setup as 4 lanes if they need more room. I guess they will just take out the breakdown lanes.
When I used it I couldn't wait until it was finished...now that I don't...I only watch with curiosity. When it is complete I can hopefully use it as an alternative when 93 is jammed up.
Well said. Mods...keep adding he isn't at 5 yet.
Most people do not take the multi-year contracts due to being shortsighted or uninformed. At least the people that I know. Most, like myself, do the plans because they don't want to spend $200 on a phone.
Go through life assuming things are free unless its restricted and see how far you get before you are in jail. Its a stupid assumption made by stupid people and hence the reason I brought up the warning on plastic bags.
I'm done arguing though.
When you walk past a TV store you are looking at things for sale. When you steal services like from some unsuspecting company/person that service is not for sale. There is a difference. The only way that would stand up is if an ISP had a network available for use in order to entice you to purchase something.
It is for people like you that warnings are on plastic bags "don't use as a toy".
I don't think people who say what the parent said are ignorant, instead I think they are trying to rationalize misbehavior.
Yeah and some people who own open markets give away free apples. Why should I assume that taking one every now and then is not OK? Afterall they didn't secure the apples within the store.... be serious.
...and I'll say it again. Vote with your wallet. Don't buy CDs...DVDs....go to the movies...don't go to concerts.
Let the RIAA/MPAA know that your not willing to spend money on their crap anymore.
Choose indie artists....listen to local music.
Otherwise...deal with whatever happens. The reality is that downloading music is illegal. So either let them know they need to meet us in the middle with either cheaper prices...easier ways to get the same material or by making it legal by creating your own lobby groups to influence government or by boycotting...or stfu and pay for your CDs...
...or does that not get any press?
I play chess...since 3rd grade but I don't follow tournament play. Does he get more money to play the computers?
... I've posted this before
My page about sharp electronics
I know that I've connected with at least 10 other people that had a similar problem with their TV as well as persuaded many others not to buy Sharp products due to my site. I also have seen other pages like mine that have done the same for me with other products. Some pages matter...and some are self-indulging fluff. I think having the ability to voice opinions...inform others...share information through the use of personal pages is great.
The argument sucked...wtf is going to buy that many?
I don't know how you came up with $3173...what base model did you choose? This is a poweredge 650 that I'm talking about and both prices were before discount. I get the verizon discount from both companies so the end prices were different...but I do not have those numbers in front of me.
Your right though...still a big difference...I can't justify the additional cost of $1200. It just doesn't make sense for a DNS server....and frankly for a lot of other servers we run. If we need a replacement for our E3000 production Oracle server ( and we do soon ) then it might be a whole new ballgame.
Here is what I just quoted 5 seconds ago from their site...I think there was an additional discount a couple weeks ago that explains the $150-200 difference in price:
Description
PowerEdge 650
PowerEdge 650, Intel Pentium 4, 2.4GHz, 512K, 533MHz, with Floppy / CDROM, No OS - Other
Qty: 1
SALE PRICE
Price: $2,305.00
[save $50.00]
Date: Sunday, November 09, 2003 1:29:20 PM CDT
Catalog Number: 4 04
Module Description Product Code Sku Id
PowerEdge 650: PowerEdge 650, Intel Pentium 4, 2.4GHz, 512K, 533MHz, with Floppy / CDROM 65024 [221-2023] 1
Special Offer: SPECIAL OFFER - $50 OFF OL50 [461-3185] 120
Mail-In Rebate Offer: $100 Mail-In Rebate #40611! Redeem after system purchase at www.dell.com REBATE [462-0167] 56
Operating System: No OS - Other NOOS/O [420-4106] 11
Memory: 1.0GB DDR,266MHZ,2X512MB DIMM 1GB2D [311-2430] 3
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Same Day 4Hr Response Parts + Onsite Labor (7 Days x 24 Hours) W3Y7X24 [960-1305] [950-8750] [900-2962] 29
Installation: No Installation NOINSTL [900-9997] 32
1st Network Adapters: Intel Pro 1000MT Gigabit Dual Port NIC 1000MDP [430-0569] 13
Hard Drive Configurations: C4, Add-In IDE Raid Card,Raid 1 with a 2 Hard Drive Configuration IAR1 [340-8081] 27
Chassis Configuration: VersaRails for Non-Dell Rack VERSA [310-4107] 28
Hard Drive Controller: 50% OFF! IDE RAID Controller, ATA100 / 4 Channel IDEFCHF [462-2182] 9
1st Hard Drive: 40GB 7.2K RPM IDE Hard Drive 40GB [340-8740] 8
2nd Hard Drive: 40GB 7.2K RPM IDE Additional Hard Drive 40GBADD [340-8750] 23
Chassis Bezel: Metal Bezel for the PowerEdge 650 with the Intel P4 Processor P4BEZEL [313-1700] 36
Keyboard: Standard Windows Keyboard,Gray S [310-1680] 4
Mouse: Logitec System Mouse, Gray L [310-3776] 12
Documentation: Electronic Documentation, PowerEdge 650 EDOCS [310-0438] 21
Purchase Intent: Purchase is not intended for resale. NOT4SEL [462-4506] 138
Monitors: No Monitor Option N [320-0058] 5
...but I don't have to. This is kind of like pointing out the obvious. If Microsoft isn't feeling any financial hurt they don't do a damn thing.
Some companies today listen to their customers and make changes proactively and a lot do not...but you are sure as hell going to see change when they are not making as much money.
Vote with your wallet...its the only vote anyone listens to anymore.
Two weeks ago. I was pricing out a low-end server to handle our DNS zones.
I looked at the V60x x86 based box with 1x 2.8Ghz CPU, 1G of RAM, 2x 36G disks a RAID controller and 3 years of On-site 9-5 4 hour response time support.
And among others we looked at a Dell
2.4Ghz CPU, 1G of RAM, 2x40GB disks, a RAID controller and 3 years of on-site 9-5 4 hour response time support.
We went with Dell because the cost of the Sun box with support was about $4,500.00 and the Dell box was about $2,100.00
The other option was to go with a sparc based server and we priced Sun's cheapest option:
The Sunfire V100 with a 550Mhz UltraSPARC-IIi CPU, 1GB of RAM, 2x40GB Drives, and the same support. This was lacking a RAID controller and to be honest we didn't price that piece seperately, or even see if its an option, because the price was about $2400.
So the only area where Sun is comparable on price is with the Sunfire line and we would need to purchase some sort of hardware based raid solution. I like disk suite and we could have gone that way without noticing it much...afterall it is just a DNS server.
But the reality is its still more expensive. I've seen the UltraSPARC II during software compiling and it isn't as fast as P4. I wish I could say I've done more benchmarking and I knew more about the internals of each of the chips to have done better benchmarking but at this point...why bother? Even if the UltraSPARC is a little faster...its not worth it...the P4 is already overkill.
I think every situation is different, we may be the extremes on each end but until we have problems with x86/Linux I can't make the case to go Sun anymore with myself and certainly not to mangement. We currently have Platinum support on the Sun hardware and will be moving to Silver come January for most of our equipment. I, like you, can have a tech in the office at all times of the day or night and I don't even have to ask nicely, but I don't see how that relates to hardware reliability.
My point was that hardware fails.... I have just noticed the Sparc hardware failing at a higher rate and just because Sun has better support, they do, doesn't make it any better when a part fails. That said, it makes it _very_ hard to choose a Sun product when evaluating new hardware when you take into consideration cost/reliability/performance.
You should care. Sun hardware ins't problem free. I take care of around 50 servers. Of those 30 or so are Sparc running Solaris. I have to replace a Sun part about 1x a month. I have a couple machines that have never lost a part and I have x86/linux boxes that haven't lost a part in years. I have support on all my machines and the x86/linux solution is STILL much cheaper. Even the support is cheaper and please don't start with "quality of support" ...because Sun's support varies greatly depending on when you call. The techs that actually come out to do the work are mindless sub-contracted help and the first levels on the phone are pretty clueless as well....its only when you get to the engineers that you really get good people. I'd say the same is true for support from most other places.
I work in a Sun shop that is moving towards linux. One of the reasons we are moving is because the Sun products are too expensive and the price:performance ratio sucks. Now they are selling expensive hardware running linux instead of expensive hardware running solaris. Big deal. For most of our servers we'll just buy from cheaper vendors. We can build redundancy across computers and still save a ton of money.
Sun's days are numbered.
For godsakes....can we quit with all the stupid "SCO makes yet another stupid claim" stories? Can we do exactly what they DONT want and ignore them? Every time I turn around there is another story about SCO...make it stop! PLEASE for the love of all things right in the world.