Nice job. I hope you report all the bugs into the bugs.kde.org database.
BTW, your critique is irrelevant. Konqueror the browser is not dependent on khtml, the render engine. So even IF your analysis were entirely true (which I doubt), using e.g. gecko is no problem. If in the future the KDE community notices that khtml doesn't cut it, well we will just use gecko. The code is already there, at the moment though, most users are happy with khtml.
BTW, of the tests you did, three have already been fixed in the last release KDE-2.2alpha1: Positioning the background image, backgrounds on line boxes and CSS1 borders work fine now.
Some of the tests are IMHO academic (who uses cap style anyways??) and KDE is mostly a volunteer effort. Therefore someone has to find something important enough to spend time on it. Word spacing and capitals CSS properties obviously are not deemed important enough so far. Don't forget that commercial Mozilla has several full time programmers while volunteer khtml is a small project.
For real world web sites, I use konqueror without problems at all. Almost everything works and the improvements are coming along fine with every new KDE release.
Please redo your tests with KDE-2.2alpha2 which is supposed to come out today. --
Re:"massive expensive development packages"?
on
Qt for Mac
·
· Score: 1
QUOTE: Qt is DKK 12,000 (~USD 1,500), which means that I have to already decide I want to use it, for my boss to allow the expense.
Bullshit, just demo QT/KDE on linux, show him some example programs on windows (I am sure that QT has some available) and off you are. You can code a little with the QT/GPL versiona nd then decide to license the windows version. --
Wow, Windows 95 sounds really cool, where can I get it?
Seriously, this is idiotic. OS/2 was the better system than Win95. The Mac has been easier to use. The Amiga has been easier to use.
Lets have a look at the MS inventions:
The ability for average non-technical persons to use a personal computer.
Crap. Not even Windows 2000 or XP. A Mac is easier to use. No invention at all.
The inclusion of web-browsers and a tcp-ip stack as "standard equipment" in an OS.
WOW. My SuSE Linux comes with TCP/IP-stack (Unix based anyways) and several browsers. No invention. Except for the technologies, which were created on Unix.
And by the way they made many Americans a lot of money. But they made many more people pay too much for bad products. Money is not made, it is transferred. I claim that MS has had a negative effect on the economy as a whole since about 1996. --
What did you expect? Ximian is a commercially run company that is burning up it's venture capital fast, that has not delivered anything of value but vague hopes so far (one day Nautilus will be great, Evolution will be a killer, Gnome2.0 will be great, Bonobo will better than Com and kparts combined, Openoffice will be cool, Mozilla might be cool) and that wasted it's money on slanderous advertising on google with regard to KDE.
Given that the main reason for Gnome at the beginning was to create a completely free desktop and that the GPLing of QT removed that reason, what reason is there left to use Gnome?
Basically commercial interests of the founders of Ximian and Eazel. Plus the fact that some open source hating Unix companies decided they could better control the LGPLed Gnome libraries than the GPLed QT libraries. Also Gnome is a great way to mobilize X programmers to do dektop apps.
It's best days are over. The greatest thing Gnome ever did was force Trolltech to GPL QT. Thank you for that.
If you look at sax2, the SuSE advanced X configurator, you will see that it is QT2 based and under the GPL.
Integration into KDE2 is good (in kccontrol) with the kdebase-yast2 package (GPL).
It is mainly for setting up X not so much for configuring it, but it works okay.
Other related KDE2 projects are kfontinst (font management), which is currently being integrated into KDE2 (for 2.2) and kvidmode
[http://www.fht-esslingen.de/~romait00/kvidmode/ ] which currently lets you set gamma and screen resolution in Xfree-4.x. There were more ambitious plans for the latter tool, but development seems to have slowed... --
In case you didn't know, tribes is available for linux,too. Check http://www.lokigames.com
And this games stuff, well I played Diablo2 until the end. Under Linux. With wine. Took some fiddling to get it to run, but now it workls just fine. --
I guess winning the third world war (including the cold war) in a row and never having to fight on one's own territory has interesting psychological side effects.
One of them could be construed to be the same arrogance you (I assume you are American) show.
I don't know how you justify that arrogance though. Winning wars does not give you a moral high ground.
(even though I am glad the Americans did intervene into WW II after the Japanese attacked them, before that point Americans could not be bothered to let e.g. all Jews who asked immigrate...) --
> Good for them, maybe Germany will actually
> build some software that competes on the
> market as a result.
Like Star Office ?
Like GPG, like KDE? Like Lyx?
Like SAP?
Like the software in German cars?
Maybe we are just fed up with the arrogant attitude of (some) Americans.
Who preach water and drink wine. Who sign treaties and don't follow them?
Who think they are so morally superior.
Where do you use foreign products anywhere in your government at all?
Heroes of free markets, my ass. --
Now the next thing to look forward too...
on
KDE 2.1 Is Out
·
· Score: 4
is Gcc 3.0 which will be the first good C++ compiler. And this will help KDE even more, as it is a C++ Project. I guess great speedups are still possible.
Like many other good ideas in Gnome they took this from KDE. kfm the KDE1.x file manager used this for html 3 support.
Maybe one day they will switch to the new khtml with gtkhtml and you will be even more amazed. Beats Mozilla most of the time and is improving at high speed.
If you don't believe me look here:
http://cvs.gnome.org/lxr/source/gtkhtml/AUTHORS --
-- of Windows and their fonts are still better. However in KDe2 with freetype2 + rendering extension Using the MS fonts:-) I get a very good looking screen experience. --
Looks like KDE and Gnome might come closer together in the end...
Arts has been what esd was for Gnome (only more ambitious...). If Gnome were to switch to arts, that would be cool, as all apps would use the same sound server. At the moment you can run an esd with an artsdsp wrapper, but that is a hack.
Also if GTK2.0 with Inti (?) becomes more C++ caqable, things like gtkembed and so on in QT, could make merging parts of the project easier.
> Is it just me, or is KDE's UI full of spelling
> mistakes and capitalization inconsistencies?
It is just you. Please could you report where the incosistencies are? This is a beta after all.. Meant for fixing bugs.
> Also, what's up with that "kdeinit" shit? This
> is not a flame, I like KDE, but these two
> things bug me.
kdeinit speeds up the loading of KDE apps a lot, as the dynaimic linker ld is not necessary. (That is my layman's unsdertstanding of it....). How does it bother you? WHat should be improved?
MS doesn't dare do that in Germany. Germany was always a renegade market.
We used DR-DOS instead of MS-Dos, OS/2 was (for a short time) more poular than MS Win95 in Germany and would still be be comon had not IBM dropped it's plans.
And at the moment Linux is so rapidly gaining popularity here, that MS fears extra inconvenience will cost them more mareketshare. Better an illegeal copy of Windows than Linux.
No dongles and bios dependencies in Germany my friends:-)
I just read in Spektrum der Wissenschaft 1/2001 p. 42 (http://www.spektrum.de)
Scientists try to detect planets during "pass-overs", if a planet passes between us and it's sun, the brightness of the star is reduced by a small amount and in a very typical pattern.
By using this method Charbonneau and Henry have already confirmed the previous "wobbling" detection of a large planet at the star HD 209468.
Interesting aspect: This method of planet detection is not sensitive to mass, but to parameter! Thus if you can detect wobbling and brightness reduction you can even calculate the density of the planet.
There are projects being started right now to measure many stars for brightness reductions at once. One of them is the NASA satellite "Kepler". They expect to detect 600 passovers of earth sized planets...
One day we may even be able to detect the reflected light of a planet and thereby analyze the chemical composition of the planet's surface/atmosphere.
I don't like most stories CmdrTaco posts and I don't think he is very objective (I have read too many KDE stories he twisted in a very negative way), but this is soo stupid.
OTOH it (apple being jerks) is highly plausible, maybe the hackers are smart enough and are laughing their asses off?
And you don't need a special wine version. Wine will be compatible to all Windows. You only need a recent version. Also WINE IS NOT an EMULATOR. There is no necessity for wine to be slow. It is a reimplementation of Windows, not an Emulation.
I mean how can Half-Life, Quake and Doom be influential? All of the were improved copies of castle Wolfenstein.
Games missing:
Rogue: Ancestor of all turn based role playing games, nethack, diablo....
Bard's Tale: First great first person role playing game
Elite: First 3D vector graphics game which combined commerce and battle.
Infocom's Zork or Adventure: the first adventure games
Super Mario Brothers: Restored arcade machines
Way of the exploding fist: One of the first great combat games (Tekken...)
Mule, Pirates: Action and economy in one game
Fort Apocalypse,
Pole Position: First car racer with 3D (sortof) graphics!
Pong: First coimmercial game
ARCHON
The guy who made the list was not a day older than 20, and has absolutely no clue about the old classics from the eighties. I mean Wing Commander was nice and maybe influential, btu it was an Elite rip-off.
> This is a bit of a reversed way of thinking to
> me, because you can't seriously expect
> Microsoft to think about what is fair, honest
> and chivalrous to their competitors every step
> along the way of developing their system.
Well every time you act you have to check if you don't break a law. Tough, but true.
If you have a (LEGAL!) monopoly, the law puts an extra burden on you: Don't abuse your (LEGAL!) monopoly to destroy competition. What's wrong with that?
As soon as you loose your monopoly, you have less obligations again. Sounds excellent to me.
> That's simply not true - as we all know HTML
> is actually a standard for marking up stuff
> like that, and Microsoft uses it to publish
> their help online aswell as in the Windows
> helpsystem.
Oh yeah, like the Windows help system is HTML based. Please show me one HTML validator or one other browser than IE, that can handle this stuff. It may be called HTML but it does not have much in common with the stuff you find in the internet.
Slashdot Mirror
Nice job. I hope you report all the bugs into the bugs.kde.org database.
BTW, your critique is irrelevant. Konqueror the browser is not dependent on khtml, the render engine. So even IF your analysis were entirely true (which I doubt), using e.g. gecko is no problem. If in the future the KDE community notices that khtml doesn't cut it, well we will just use gecko. The code is already there, at the moment though, most users are happy with khtml.
BTW, of the tests you did, three have already been fixed in the last release KDE-2.2alpha1: Positioning the background image, backgrounds on line boxes and CSS1 borders work fine now.
Some of the tests are IMHO academic (who uses cap style anyways??) and KDE is mostly a volunteer effort. Therefore someone has to find something important enough to spend time on it. Word spacing and capitals CSS properties obviously are not deemed important enough so far. Don't forget that commercial Mozilla has several full time programmers while volunteer khtml is a small project.
For real world web sites, I use konqueror without problems at all. Almost everything works and the improvements are coming along fine with every new KDE release.
Please redo your tests with KDE-2.2alpha2 which is supposed to come out today.
--
QUOTE: Qt is DKK 12,000 (~USD 1,500), which means that I have to already decide I want to use it, for my boss to allow the expense.
Bullshit, just demo QT/KDE on linux, show him some example programs on windows (I am sure that QT has some available) and off you are. You can code a little with the QT/GPL versiona nd then decide to license the windows version.
--
The inclusion of web-browsers and a tcp-ip stack as "standard equipment" in an OS. WOW. My SuSE Linux comes with TCP/IP-stack (Unix based anyways) and several browsers. No invention. Except for the technologies, which were created on Unix.
And by the way they made many Americans a lot of money. But they made many more people pay too much for bad products. Money is not made, it is transferred. I claim that MS has had a negative effect on the economy as a whole since about 1996.
--
What did you expect? Ximian is a commercially run company that is burning up it's venture capital fast, that has not delivered anything of value but vague hopes so far (one day Nautilus will be great, Evolution will be a killer, Gnome2.0 will be great, Bonobo will better than Com and kparts combined, Openoffice will be cool, Mozilla might be cool) and that wasted it's money on slanderous advertising on google with regard to KDE.
:-)
Given that the main reason for Gnome at the beginning was to create a completely free desktop and that the GPLing of QT removed that reason, what reason is there left to use Gnome?
Basically commercial interests of the founders of Ximian and Eazel. Plus the fact that some open source hating Unix companies decided they could better control the LGPLed Gnome libraries than the GPLed QT libraries. Also Gnome is a great way to mobilize X programmers to do dektop apps.
It's best days are over. The greatest thing Gnome ever did was force Trolltech to GPL QT. Thank you for that.
-- Feed me, I am a troll
--
If you look at sax2, the SuSE advanced X configurator, you will see that it is QT2 based and under the GPL.
/ ] which currently lets you set gamma and screen resolution in Xfree-4.x. There were more ambitious plans for the latter tool, but development seems to have slowed...
Integration into KDE2 is good (in kccontrol) with the kdebase-yast2 package (GPL).
It is mainly for setting up X not so much for configuring it, but it works okay.
Other related KDE2 projects are kfontinst (font management), which is currently being integrated into KDE2 (for 2.2) and kvidmode
[http://www.fht-esslingen.de/~romait00/kvidmode
--
In case you didn't know, tribes is available for linux,too. Check http://www.lokigames.com
And this games stuff, well I played Diablo2 until the end. Under Linux. With wine. Took some fiddling to get it to run, but now it workls just fine.
--
I guess winning the third world war (including the cold war) in a row and never having to fight on one's own territory has interesting psychological side effects.
One of them could be construed to be the same arrogance you (I assume you are American) show.
I don't know how you justify that arrogance though. Winning wars does not give you a moral high ground.
(even though I am glad the Americans did intervene into WW II after the Japanese attacked them, before that point Americans could not be bothered to let e.g. all Jews who asked immigrate...)
--
> Good for them, maybe Germany will actually
> build some software that competes on the
> market as a result.
Like Star Office ?
Like GPG, like KDE? Like Lyx?
Like SAP?
Like the software in German cars?
Maybe we are just fed up with the arrogant attitude of (some) Americans.
Who preach water and drink wine. Who sign treaties and don't follow them?
Who think they are so morally superior.
Where do you use foreign products anywhere in your government at all?
Heroes of free markets, my ass.
--
is Gcc 3.0 which will be the first good C++ compiler. And this will help KDE even more, as it is a C++ Project. I guess great speedups are still possible.
Ohboyohboyohboy!
--
Like many other good ideas in Gnome they took this from KDE. kfm the KDE1.x file manager used this for html 3 support.
Maybe one day they will switch to the new khtml with gtkhtml and you will be even more amazed. Beats Mozilla most of the time and is improving at high speed.
If you don't believe me look here:
http://cvs.gnome.org/lxr/source/gtkhtml/AUTHORS
--
You have to get a recent Xfree snapshot and compile it with a freetype2 snapshot and a patched QT (qt-copy from KDE is patched).
Then you compile everything, follow the instructions and voila, every modern QT application uses smooth fonts.
--
-- of Windows and their fonts are still better. However in KDe2 with freetype2 + rendering extension Using the MS fonts :-) I get a very good looking screen experience.
--
Good news, the nag is gone, ad sponsored it is.... Hooray!
Have a look here!
--
Looks like KDE and Gnome might come closer together in the end...
Arts has been what esd was for Gnome (only more ambitious...). If Gnome were to switch to arts, that would be cool, as all apps would use the same sound server. At the moment you can run an esd with an artsdsp wrapper, but that is a hack.
Also if GTK2.0 with Inti (?) becomes more C++ caqable, things like gtkembed and so on in QT, could make merging parts of the project easier.
Great news, I hope the Gnomes will do that.
--
> Is it just me, or is KDE's UI full of spelling
> mistakes and capitalization inconsistencies?
It is just you. Please could you report where the incosistencies are? This is a beta after all.. Meant for fixing bugs.
> Also, what's up with that "kdeinit" shit? This
> is not a flame, I like KDE, but these two
> things bug me.
kdeinit speeds up the loading of KDE apps a lot, as the dynaimic linker ld is not necessary. (That is my layman's unsdertstanding of it....). How does it bother you? WHat should be improved?
--
so wait a few month. Maybe you can associate "xmms %u" to mp3 urls until then?
Have fun!
--
MS doesn't dare do that in Germany. Germany was always a renegade market.
:-)
We used DR-DOS instead of MS-Dos, OS/2 was (for a short time) more poular than MS Win95 in Germany and would still be be comon had not IBM dropped it's plans.
And at the moment Linux is so rapidly gaining popularity here, that MS fears extra inconvenience will cost them more mareketshare. Better an illegeal copy of Windows than Linux.
No dongles and bios dependencies in Germany my friends
http://apps.kde.com/na/2/info/id/385
Haven't tested it, but might be worth checking out.
I just read in Spektrum der Wissenschaft 1/2001 p. 42 (http://www.spektrum.de)
Scientists try to detect planets during "pass-overs", if a planet passes between us and it's sun, the brightness of the star is reduced by a small amount and in a very typical pattern.
By using this method Charbonneau and Henry have already confirmed the previous "wobbling" detection of a large planet at the star HD 209468.
Interesting aspect: This method of planet detection is not sensitive to mass, but to parameter! Thus if you can detect wobbling and brightness reduction you can even calculate the density of the planet.
There are projects being started right now to measure many stars for brightness reductions at once. One of them is the NASA satellite "Kepler". They expect to detect 600 passovers of earth sized planets...
One day we may even be able to detect the reflected light of a planet and thereby analyze the chemical composition of the planet's surface/atmosphere.
My thoughts exactly.
I don't like most stories CmdrTaco posts and I don't think he is very objective (I have read too many KDE stories he twisted in a very negative way), but this is soo stupid.
OTOH it (apple being jerks) is highly plausible, maybe the hackers are smart enough and are laughing their asses off?
Games will soon be shipped on DVD.
And you don't need a special wine version. Wine will be compatible to all Windows. You only need a recent version. Also WINE IS NOT an EMULATOR. There is no necessity for wine to be slow. It is a reimplementation of Windows, not an Emulation.
Well most asf files work okay with the latest version of avifile, which is to be found at http://divx.euro.ru/
You need version 0.52 and the latest binaries (windows dlls) works on i386 only of course....
Sorenson don't even give out an AVI codec or avifile would play sorensen quicktime crap.
>To my knowledge, no game company has developed a text
>parser which even comes close to matching the
>sophistication of Infocom's earliest engines.
Oh well, the last succesfull text adventures came from Magnetic Scroll:
Remember "The Guild" ? They were excellent, I loved them.
I mean how can Half-Life, Quake and Doom be influential? All of the were improved copies of castle Wolfenstein.
Games missing:
Rogue: Ancestor of all turn based role playing games, nethack, diablo....
Bard's Tale: First great first person role playing game
Elite: First 3D vector graphics game which combined commerce and battle.
Infocom's Zork or Adventure: the first adventure games
Super Mario Brothers: Restored arcade machines
Way of the exploding fist: One of the first great combat games (Tekken...)
Mule, Pirates: Action and economy in one game
Fort Apocalypse,
Pole Position: First car racer with 3D (sortof) graphics!
Pong: First coimmercial game
ARCHON
The guy who made the list was not a day older than 20, and has absolutely no clue about the old classics from the eighties. I mean Wing Commander was nice and maybe influential, btu it was an Elite rip-off.
> This is a bit of a reversed way of thinking to
> me, because you can't seriously expect
> Microsoft to think about what is fair, honest
> and chivalrous to their competitors every step
> along the way of developing their system.
Well every time you act you have to check if you don't break a law. Tough, but true.
If you have a (LEGAL!) monopoly, the law puts an extra burden on you: Don't abuse your (LEGAL!) monopoly to destroy competition. What's wrong with that?
As soon as you loose your monopoly, you have less obligations again. Sounds excellent to me.
> That's simply not true - as we all know HTML
> is actually a standard for marking up stuff
> like that, and Microsoft uses it to publish
> their help online aswell as in the Windows
> helpsystem.
Oh yeah, like the Windows help system is HTML based. Please show me one HTML validator or one other browser than IE, that can handle this stuff. It may be called HTML but it does not have much in common with the stuff you find in the internet.