Actually there are excellent GTK applications.
I really like and recommend gimp and gnapster. These have no alternative in the KDE/qt world.
Also the gtk gui to vim (gvim) is excellent.
Nobody argues against this.
I fail to see how this is relevant to gnome though. None of the applications you mentioned are very well integrated into the "desktop".
The only desktop application that was a lot better than the KDE equivalent for a while was the panel, when it got stable in the last year.
Now, applets are hardly an invention of the gnome panel, I would rather credit windowmaker.
BTW, if you want to see more excellent KDE(2) Desktop! applications: Check out konsole, kppp, kmail, knode, korganizer
(I didn't even know qps. Seems to be the ancestor of today's kpm process manager)
I would have loved to see a way to integrate all that C coding talent that went into the duplication of all the KDE apps as Gnome apps, into KDE conformant GTK apps. They could have followed the KDE style guide. Instead Gnome reinvented the wheel.
ALL the gtk-apps you listed have good KDE- counterparts.
gphoto2 is platform independent and a kioslave (integrated into konqueror and ALL other KDE apps) I fail to see why the GUI choice of a digital camera driver is indicative for a good desktop.
gnumeric - kspread - 1-2-3/excel
abiword - kword-amipro/word/starwriter/framemaker
dia - kivio - visio
emacs - kwrite - notepad [ haha ]
****
You support Gnome because of gtk - Emacs???
Well KDE has kwrite, which is good enough for most people. I am waiting for kvim. And a QT/KDE-Port of Emacs has already started as well.
Mozilla was ported to QT first and today it is not toolkit based really. It renders itself on a gtkcanvas. So what.
Comeon people do you know the KDE(2!) equivalents? Have you used them for more than 3 seconds? KDE2 has been out hardly 3 month.
First Integrated Desktop Project: KDE
Second attempt: Gnome.
(Thanks for trying anyways, I doubt QT would be GPL without you, but a free qt clone [aka Harmony] would have been better)
KDE used Corba before Gnome was at 1.0. They dropped it not only because it was slower (experienced on today's Gnome desktops) but because it was very complicated to code for. Dcop was a very innovative idea and code development has increased immensely after Corba was dropped.
Bonobo was announced AFTER koffice had used kparts for a while already. It is a copy of Microsofts COM object model.
I simply do not understand you Gnome people. Gnome has always been second. It has taken over a lot of previously unrelated software (staroffice, mozilla, abiword, khtml...) while KDE has most of the time invented new things or rewritten them from scratch.
QT is ways ahead of GTK 1.x and GTK 2.0 (announced) will have a hard time to match QT2.2.3 and later. I mean QT is already unicode based. GTK isn't. And so on. QT has theming of a quality GTK doesn't dream of.
Another thing: GTK reinvents OO programming. Why would anyone code OO in C? Why? Please tell me?
There was one thing Gnome was always ahead in: PR, publicity and marketing. I mean look at Gnome 1.0. Pathetic. Look at all those nice themes. Great.
[Well Gnome had better eye candy=themes, but that fits]
Still I am glad that Gnome exists. Gnome has sped up the development of KDE, because if somebody tells lies about you all the time, you have a greater motivation. People run faster if somebody runs behind them.
But KDE was never second.
Last RANT: At the moment the Gnome loving FSF try to make Gnome a necessity by coding dependencies into other FSF components.
orbit -> linux kernel (Linus won't have it though)
Much worse: The new maintainer of ghostscript has publicly declared that future releases of ghostscript will have to have a Gnome GUI and will depend on gtkcanvas. Nice!
Remember when KDE was boycotted by RedHat to protect their baby?
KDE has surpassed MS Windows already, though, and soon even the unix companies will notice...
And you can easily compile KDE with debugging output switched off. I guess you either have self-compiled packages or the packager was not too well informed.
Well, Matrox cards are the best thing you can get
on
Alpha-Blending On KDE
·
· Score: 1
all the other cards are crap on X. Sure nvidia is faster in GL. But how often do I play quake 3 or sof? And how often would I be annoyed that the crappy nvidia binary driver causes loads of problems that will never be fixed?
I couldn't watch tv without the nice hardware scaled screen my matrox cards draws. Excellent.
And I play quake3 with full settings (well 16 bit colors) at 1024x768. Good enough for me.
Now this. My advice: Always buy the card the X developers like. Happens to be Matrox MGA:-)
Re:The problem with linux games
on
Linux Sin Demo
·
· Score: 1
Actually have you ever tried playing commercil games under linux? I guess you haven't.
Because they are NOT harder to install (well you have to start the installer manually, oh MY GOD) than Windows games.
The hard thing to set up is 3D acceleration. Reason: It is too new and the distributions have not yet automated the configuration. I have tweaked my system until it ran all 3D games and I can get any (precompiled commercial) Linux game to run in no time.
I have bought: Civilization CTP, Quake3, Soldier of Fortune.
CTP was very easy to install : no 3D
Quake3 was hard to install, because I had switched to X 4.0 and my Matrox MGA G400 was not supported correctly / good enough. So it meant compiling my own DRI -X (dri.sourceforge.net)
SoF was a breeze, as my system had already a working accelerated GL X Server.
I have since installed several demos of other games (descent,...) Never "futzing" around anymore.
I just finished Diablo 2 with my necromancer under wine. No problem there either:-)
I am using Konqueror 1.98 (KDE2) right here and now.
It is my default browser.
I have also always installed Mozilla nightly and Netscape 4.76.
(That is already a statement)
What do I like about Konqui: Fastest, speedy, best UI (not prettiest). Can browse almost everything, CSS1/2 support is excellent. Best filemanager, can browse Windows networks. Uses showckwave and realplayer plugins of netscape (without problems) Conforms to my desktop settings. Uses external apps and kparts, so the thing is skinny and modular. Good translations.
What will be improved:
The url completion is worse than IE. The bookmark manager is currently reworked, at the moment it is a hack. Java support is sketchy. Javascript is implemented only partially, but improving steadily. Some pages use FUCKED js to check if browser is IE or netscape and fail to let konqui see their HTML 3.02 pages.....
Why not Netscape 4.76: Terrible fonts, not scalable, no decent CSS support.Ugly. Motif. Slow.
Advantages: Works with many badly adapted pages having JS, best plugin support. Java flaky, but works.
Why not Mozilla nightlies: No https support and java in default install. Unstabler and slower than konqui. Does not follow Destop settings closely. No foreign languages in default install.
Advantages: Better if slower rendering on many pages. Good font support. Best Javascript of all browsers.
I use Konqui and if I hit a problem page, I can just right click and choose another browser in 2 seconds, that way I am not losing anything and have the fastest and most sensible browser around. I am looking fforward to the adaptiuon Corel is doing: Integrate Gecko into Konqueror, that way I would have all the advantages of Mozilla and of Konqui combined.....
Still Konqui is far better and usable than the alternatives at this moment, IMHO.
Well it does in linux 2.4-test10 for Matrox cards. It is still experimental. So if it is possible for Matrox, it is very well possible for the creator of IPAQ or any Handheld to program an accelerated framebuffer for their display device. No problem at all.
I have been using linux exclusively as desktop OS since 1997.
I have never used Windows 95+ for extended periods of time and I have converted about a dozen PCs to linux.
Judaism was never "legally" a criminal offence in the Third Reich. There were stroing laws against mixed marriages and many discriminatory measures, but being a Jew was never a "crime" in the strict sense of the word.
And CoS is not illegal in Germany, you just won't get employed by the state and get public contracts.
Re:What?! The Americans still kill Indians and
on
FRG on W2K: No CoS
·
· Score: 1
" Killed millions of indians, had slavery, has a war on harmless drug users"
Note the use of past tense for the first entries and the use of present tense (has/had).
That sounds like something a German would say to a Scientologist if you transpose me and you:-)
Regarding your statement:
"I merely pointed out that it creates the appearance of wrongdoing for a government to perform an action like this."
Well appearances can be deceiving.
And I am tired of being regarded as or compared to a Nazi just because I happen to be German. Which was what you (and the "C"oS) used to critisize the German government.
BTW: The Open Source Movement is also strengthened by this German fear of sofware from dubious sources.
Oh you good Americans, please allow us ur own poli
on
FRG on W2K: No CoS
·
· Score: 3
Criticism like this coming from a country that in the present:
* Kills innocents (death penalty)
* Does not follow international treaties
(2 German criminals were prosecuted in the US of A _after_ the International Court [including one US judge]
ordered a stop, becaues of violation of international treaties granting right to diplomatic help)
* Killed millions of indians, had slavery, has a war on harmless drug users
* Has the highest rate of people in jail of all "civilized" nations
Please moderate this down.
Anyways German courts have decided Scientology is not a religion. I tend to agree. Thus it does not have the same protection as e.g. Jewish, pagan , christian or any other religion or belief system.
German government _is_ a bit hysterical about scientology IMHO.
But that does not mean that your comparison to Nazi terror is in the least bit justified, get a life, buy a newspaper and stop smoking crack.
The latest wine runs diablo 2 without the slightest fault. Including sound and so on. I am a necromancer level 12 (got the game yesterday!)
(Need to use the no cd binary from http://www.gamecopyworld.com and wine --winver nt40)
Is that a good enough game support for you? I love it.
I couldn't agree more with this eulogy to KDE. Very civilized nice project, no bullies, no flaming of systematic flaming of other projects.
Concerning company influence, TrollTech just makes the toolkit. That's it. Thjey don't mess with the desktop. They try to help it of course, but I can't recall a single design proposal by TrollTech.
The Gnome using moderators must be afraid.... But come on folks, you can't expect other people to make the switch from Windows to Linux if you are afraid of switching from Gnome to KDE.
It is rock stable. DO NOT POST BUG REPORTS FOR CRASHES UNLESS YOU HAVE RECOMPILED WITH./configure --enable-debug
(and I mean all of KDE and qt) and can reproduce the crash.
Most of the time you didn't install it correctly or the packager made a mistake.
I mean look at http://bugs.kde.org more than 10000 bugs. There are some developers busy just closing STUPID bugreports.
Concerning the stability: Konqueror crashes (once a day under hard testing -js, java, pushing buttons like crazy). That_'s it I haven't managed to crash anything else in a while.
Slashdot Mirror
I especially like
gg: a google search
And you list lacks info:/ for viewing info pages...
Actually there are excellent GTK applications.
I really like and recommend gimp and gnapster. These have no alternative in the KDE/qt world.
Also the gtk gui to vim (gvim) is excellent.
Nobody argues against this.
I fail to see how this is relevant to gnome though. None of the applications you mentioned are very well integrated into the "desktop".
The only desktop application that was a lot better than the KDE equivalent for a while was the panel, when it got stable in the last year.
Now, applets are hardly an invention of the gnome panel, I would rather credit windowmaker.
BTW, if you want to see more excellent KDE(2) Desktop! applications: Check out konsole, kppp, kmail, knode, korganizer
(I didn't even know qps. Seems to be the ancestor of today's kpm process manager)
I would have loved to see a way to integrate all that C coding talent that went into the duplication of all the KDE apps as Gnome apps, into KDE conformant GTK apps. They could have followed the KDE style guide. Instead Gnome reinvented the wheel.
ALL the gtk-apps you listed have good KDE- counterparts.
gphoto2 is platform independent and a kioslave (integrated into konqueror and ALL other KDE apps) I fail to see why the GUI choice of a digital camera driver is indicative for a good desktop.
gnumeric - kspread - 1-2-3/excel
abiword - kword-amipro/word/starwriter/framemaker
dia - kivio - visio
emacs - kwrite - notepad [ haha ]
****
You support Gnome because of gtk - Emacs???
Well KDE has kwrite, which is good enough for most people. I am waiting for kvim. And a QT/KDE-Port of Emacs has already started as well.
Mozilla was ported to QT first and today it is not toolkit based really. It renders itself on a gtkcanvas. So what.
Comeon people do you know the KDE(2!) equivalents? Have you used them for more than 3 seconds? KDE2 has been out hardly 3 month.
RANT:
...) while KDE has most of the time invented new things or rewritten them from scratch.
First Integrated Desktop Project: KDE
Second attempt: Gnome.
(Thanks for trying anyways, I doubt QT would be GPL without you, but a free qt clone [aka Harmony] would have been better)
KDE used Corba before Gnome was at 1.0. They dropped it not only because it was slower (experienced on today's Gnome desktops) but because it was very complicated to code for. Dcop was a very innovative idea and code development has increased immensely after Corba was dropped.
Bonobo was announced AFTER koffice had used kparts for a while already. It is a copy of Microsofts COM object model.
I simply do not understand you Gnome people. Gnome has always been second. It has taken over a lot of previously unrelated software (staroffice, mozilla, abiword, khtml
QT is ways ahead of GTK 1.x and GTK 2.0 (announced) will have a hard time to match QT2.2.3 and later. I mean QT is already unicode based. GTK isn't. And so on. QT has theming of a quality GTK doesn't dream of.
Another thing: GTK reinvents OO programming. Why would anyone code OO in C? Why? Please tell me?
There was one thing Gnome was always ahead in: PR, publicity and marketing. I mean look at Gnome 1.0. Pathetic. Look at all those nice themes. Great.
[Well Gnome had better eye candy=themes, but that fits]
Still I am glad that Gnome exists. Gnome has sped up the development of KDE, because if somebody tells lies about you all the time, you have a greater motivation. People run faster if somebody runs behind them.
But KDE was never second.
Last RANT: At the moment the Gnome loving FSF try to make Gnome a necessity by coding dependencies into other FSF components.
orbit -> linux kernel (Linus won't have it though)
Much worse: The new maintainer of ghostscript has publicly declared that future releases of ghostscript will have to have a Gnome GUI and will depend on gtkcanvas. Nice!
Remember when KDE was boycotted by RedHat to protect their baby?
KDE has surpassed MS Windows already, though, and soon even the unix companies will notice...
Just add a "Schnell-Anzeiger" (quick access?) to the panel instead of a K Menue and fill it with the dotdesktop files you need. Voila.
/opt/kde/share/applnk/Multimedia
You can even point the directory access at a submenue of the K-Start menues, e.g.
(KDE1 Beta2) and compile CVS about once a week.
I always wondered how to get xmms on top. Thank you!! You never learn every feature in KDE2!
I just wanted to add this.
And you can easily compile KDE with debugging output switched off. I guess you either have self-compiled packages or the packager was not too well informed.
all the other cards are crap on X. Sure nvidia is faster in GL. But how often do I play quake 3 or sof? And how often would I be annoyed that the crappy nvidia binary driver causes loads of problems that will never be fixed?
:-)
I couldn't watch tv without the nice hardware scaled screen my matrox cards draws. Excellent.
And I play quake3 with full settings (well 16 bit colors) at 1024x768. Good enough for me.
Now this. My advice: Always buy the card the X developers like. Happens to be Matrox MGA
Actually have you ever tried playing commercil games under linux? I guess you haven't.
...) Never "futzing" around anymore.
:-)
Because they are NOT harder to install (well you have to start the installer manually, oh MY GOD) than Windows games.
The hard thing to set up is 3D acceleration. Reason: It is too new and the distributions have not yet automated the configuration. I have tweaked my system until it ran all 3D games and I can get any (precompiled commercial) Linux game to run in no time.
I have bought: Civilization CTP, Quake3, Soldier of Fortune.
CTP was very easy to install : no 3D
Quake3 was hard to install, because I had switched to X 4.0 and my Matrox MGA G400 was not supported correctly / good enough. So it meant compiling my own DRI -X (dri.sourceforge.net)
SoF was a breeze, as my system had already a working accelerated GL X Server.
I have since installed several demos of other games (descent,
I just finished Diablo 2 with my necromancer under wine. No problem there either
Check it out at http://apps.kde.com/infofr.php?id=837Looks nice and might evolve to something great... I like it
Yes it does. You can even switch it off :-)
I am using Konqueror 1.98 (KDE2) right here and now.
It is my default browser.
I have also always installed Mozilla nightly and Netscape 4.76.
(That is already a statement)
What do I like about Konqui: Fastest, speedy, best UI (not prettiest). Can browse almost everything, CSS1/2 support is excellent. Best filemanager, can browse Windows networks. Uses showckwave and realplayer plugins of netscape (without problems) Conforms to my desktop settings. Uses external apps and kparts, so the thing is skinny and modular. Good translations.
What will be improved:
The url completion is worse than IE. The bookmark manager is currently reworked, at the moment it is a hack. Java support is sketchy. Javascript is implemented only partially, but improving steadily. Some pages use FUCKED js to check if browser is IE or netscape and fail to let konqui see their HTML 3.02 pages.....
Why not Netscape 4.76: Terrible fonts, not scalable, no decent CSS support.Ugly. Motif. Slow.
Advantages: Works with many badly adapted pages having JS, best plugin support. Java flaky, but works.
Why not Mozilla nightlies: No https support and java in default install. Unstabler and slower than konqui. Does not follow Destop settings closely. No foreign languages in default install.
Advantages: Better if slower rendering on many pages. Good font support. Best Javascript of all browsers.
I use Konqui and if I hit a problem page, I can just right click and choose another browser in 2 seconds, that way I am not losing anything and have the fastest and most sensible browser around. I am looking fforward to the adaptiuon Corel is doing: Integrate Gecko into Konqueror, that way I would have all the advantages of Mozilla and of Konqui combined.....
Still Konqui is far better and usable than the alternatives at this moment, IMHO.
I do my online banking and amazon stuff with it.
I have been using linux exclusively as desktop OS since 1997.
I have never used Windows 95+ for extended periods of time and I have converted about a dozen PCs to linux.
Why does it mean that? I have hardware acceleration in my framebuffers on linux (ATI RagePro and MAtrox G400)
Are you sure about this?
As for ad blocking technology I recommend wwwoffle, it does much more than that (perfect for modem users, but I even have it on my T1 connection)
Check http://www.gedanken.demon.co.uk/wwwoffle /
This should ideally not be at browser level, but earlier (mozilla, netscape, konqueror don't see ads with this)
Judaism was never "legally" a criminal offence in the Third Reich. There were stroing laws against mixed marriages and many discriminatory measures, but being a Jew was never a "crime" in the strict sense of the word.
And CoS is not illegal in Germany, you just won't get employed by the state and get public contracts.
" Killed millions of indians, had slavery, has a war on harmless drug users"
Note the use of past tense for the first entries and the use of present tense (has/had).
I did not call you Asshole.
:-)
That sounds like something a German would say to a Scientologist if you transpose me and you
Regarding your statement:
"I merely pointed out that it creates the appearance of wrongdoing for a government to perform an action like this."
Well appearances can be deceiving.
And I am tired of being regarded as or compared to a Nazi just because I happen to be German. Which was what you (and the "C"oS) used to critisize the German government.
BTW: The Open Source Movement is also strengthened by this German fear of sofware from dubious sources.
Criticism like this coming from a country that in the present:
* Kills innocents (death penalty)
* Does not follow international treaties
(2 German criminals were prosecuted in the US of A _after_ the International Court [including one US judge]
ordered a stop, becaues of violation of international treaties granting right to diplomatic help)
* Killed millions of indians, had slavery, has a war on harmless drug users
* Has the highest rate of people in jail of all "civilized" nations
Please moderate this down.
Anyways German courts have decided Scientology is not a religion. I tend to agree. Thus it does not have the same protection as e.g. Jewish, pagan , christian or any other religion or belief system.
German government _is_ a bit hysterical about scientology IMHO.
But that does not mean that your comparison to Nazi terror is in the least bit justified, get a life, buy a newspaper and stop smoking crack.
I hate this crap.
The latest wine runs diablo 2 without the slightest fault. Including sound and so on. I am a necromancer level 12 (got the game yesterday!)
(Need to use the no cd binary from http://www.gamecopyworld.com and wine --winver nt40)
Is that a good enough game support for you? I love it.
My KDE2 desktop has been running for weeks until I upgraded to KDE2 RC2 yesterday. And it is still running with Konqueror and everything.
So whoever claims such things should make sure he installed the right package or compile himself.
I couldn't agree more with this eulogy to KDE. Very civilized nice project, no bullies, no flaming of systematic flaming of other projects.
Concerning company influence, TrollTech just makes the toolkit. That's it. Thjey don't mess with the desktop. They try to help it of course, but I can't recall a single design proposal by TrollTech.
The Gnome using moderators must be afraid.... But come on folks, you can't expect other people to make the switch from Windows to Linux if you are afraid of switching from Gnome to KDE.
My recommendation has always been to check out both and then use KDE. :-)
Most of the time you didn't install it correctly or the packager made a mistake.
I mean look at http://bugs.kde.org more than 10000 bugs. There are some developers busy just closing STUPID bugreports.
Concerning the stability: Konqueror crashes (once a day under hard testing -js, java, pushing buttons like crazy). That_'s it I haven't managed to crash anything else in a while.
Then install either Mac OS X and wait ~ 4 - 5 month until someone ports it or install linux for powerPCs now.
There is just no excuse!
It tries to find a components.reg file, doesn't find it and crash, without any error message.
Back to Konqueror.
(Which handles even my online banking since yesterdays CVS!!! https, java, javascript at once!!)
Maybe a kgecko html kpart will one day be useful, but I doubt it if I look at the quality and development speed of khtml.