Slashdot Mirror
Apple Sues Freetype - NOT (updated)
Don Giovanni writes: "Apple Computer, Inc. has finally filed suit against the Freetype Project for violation of US patents #US5325479 and #US5159668. Linux Today has the story." This from the company that actually licensed Amazon's One-Click patent. Update: 03:30 PM EST by C :We're sorry. The link referred to in this article is incorrect. We're checking up on this information, and if we have any more to report, we will. However as of right now, the consensus is that this is a hoax.
It seems that the worse a company is doing financially, the more often it looks to "alternative income sources".
I'm sorry to hear that Apple isn't doing that well.
Yep, I never spell check.
More incorrect spellings can be found he
Yes, LinuxToday has a story. One about a RAID5 array. It may be interested, but I hardly see how it's related. Correct link, anyone?
What is the correct link for the story? That one is definately the wrong link.
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
This is freetypes page explaining the copywrite issues.
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
So I'm sitting here looking at this article, wondering where the actual story is? Not only am I not finding the link on Linux Today, I'm not finding it anywhere. Not on AP, UPI, Wired.com, LinuxToday, etc. Has anyone seen this story anywhere but Slashdot?
Ok, so there's a bad link, so I guessing it has to do with Fonts?!
Fonts?, what the hell?
Why, is Apple worried it infringes on their Quartz display layer? And does this sound familiar to a lawsuit involving colorsync where Apple was sued?
--Never trust a guy who has his IP address tattoed to his arm, especially if it's DHCP
In the previous article people were incensed because a corporation had not complied with the GPL. Here the license owner defends his rights against an infringer and people are mad at him!
Bloody hypocrits.
Not only is the link bad, but there's no evidence on Linux Today's home page that they ever posted such a story. It doesn't appear on their story search either.
And what did he mean by "finally"? He doesn't like FreeType?
The link goes to a completely different Linux Today story, and there's nothing about it on the freetype home page. Is this just a rumour, or is there anything substantiating it?
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
1. Apple enforces patents on TrueType fonts, barring any open source implementations;
... most designer-y fixed-column-width web pages look like a huge amount of suck on X platforms.
2. Web pages become more dependent on TrueType fonts to be viewed properly;
3. Non-MS-or-Apple web platforms lose even more market share;
4. Total chaos ensues.
Already this is happening
Linux Today DOESN'T have that article.. maybe this is just following the formula to get posted on /.
Maybe its time to do more then a read a headline before a story gets posted...
Too bad for Apple ... first they pull all the "Apple-like" themes from themes.org, now this ... They take (BSD allows this though), but they don't give back. Apple can follow Rambus and Amazon to the shithouse ... oops, I better not say that, don't want to get sued for violating a copyrighted name...
If you have a patent it's your job to inforce it. Sit idlely by and do nothing and your "investment" goes away.
Ok, so they claim they "clean-roomed" it. Is that supposed to be something close to illegal in the patent world? Or maybe I mixed it up with reverse engineering. Also, MS coauthored it with Apple, why aren't they sueing?
--Never trust a guy who has his IP address tattoed to his arm, especially if it's DHCP
...that the last thing a small, semi-recovering box-pushing company needs is a concerted and deeply angry public backlash, plus being "sent to coventry" by all those kind OpenSource folks who were co-authoring their new OS's underpinnings.
--
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You are a fucking moron.
we all wrote to our representatives in office or to the US patent office instead of posting comments here something would change
Apple has really screwed the pooch, here. Talk of boycotts will surely ensue, but here's what I suggest. First, if you have any Macs on order at your company, call up your distributor and ask if the lawsuit will affect your ability to run X with Freetype under Linux on the boxes. If the distributor does not know, ask them to escalate the call to their Apple contacts. Second, if you currently have Macs that are under support, call Apple and ask if your license for MacOS covers your use of Freetype under Linux (or BSD or whatever you prefer).
The goal here is to make Apple, internally, aware of the PR impact of it's choices. Often, the majority of the company is NOT aware of what the legal dept is doing, and may not be aware even of what Freetype is.
If you really feel like going out on a limb, try joining the Freetype project and contributing work, documentation or legal fees (I'm sure someone will post a legal defense fund address once it's available).
The irony involved in buying a Sony project because you want to avoid manufacturers who unfairly prevent interoperability for their own advantage is just sickening...
(See also: DVDs, Playstation emulators, Minidiscs... probably a dozen or so more, but those spring to mind.)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
Ever since they sued Atari (and others) for the look-n-feel of the trashcan in GEM which was in reality an idea they "discovered" while on a tour at Xerox PARC, I've sworn off all Apple products.
I have yet to regret that decision.
Apple is definitely a commercial company
You can't pay your employees in goodwill. You can't spend money on R&D with bonhomie. You can't buy equipment from suppliers with charity. Apple needs to make money so that it can (repeat after me) continue to stay in business. This is true of every company whether it be Apple, Microsoft, Exxon, your local pub, or the corner grocer.
As an aside: everyone talks about how Linux is open source and free. If Linux is so free then why do I have to pay Debain, Red Hat, LinuxPPC for a free program?
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
s/project/product/ :-)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
It was bound to come up eventually. The Freetype page explaining the issue that was already mentioned was last updated in March 2000. Which is to say, this has been a known issue for quite some time.
Somebody's obviously alerted them to the fact that every copy of XFree86 4.0 is using TrueType fonts, but what can Apple gain out of this? They can hardly hope to get license fees out of it; FreeType will just remove the hinting bytecode interpreter and everyone will have slightly naffer looking fonts. Presumably, though, their worry is that competitors will use FreeType to make the products a pretty as Apple's . But it seems like a bit of a PR gaffe to have a go at people working from a freely-published specification to achieve this end. Patent warfare, especially software patent warfare, is just about trying to build up `amicable' cross-licensing agreements where the law will allow, but free software authors can't play this game. It doesn't really matter that they worked from a specification that Apple provided, and that this might be legal-- lawsuits & threats of lawsuits are a pretty good way of getting free software authors to yank code, whatever the reason.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Remember, Don Giovanni is the name of a truly epic bastard from a Mozart opera, who gets dragged, still-living, into Hell for his evil deeds.
What is Slashdot trying to do, out do the New York Times?
What with Sony? you are so fooling yourself. Besides, Apple will have an all new laptop out soon in January. You'll want it, and you'll cry if you can't get it :). Besides, the people at Freetype knew this was a possibility, so did SDL when it advised about using Freetype.
-Daniel
OK, so the link is massively bad (a search of the site shows they do not have a single article concerning Apple and FreeType).p ?NID=1134, but that was almost a year ago.
The only thing I could find was http://www.microsoft.com/typography/links/News.as
FreeType's Page does not list anything current, either.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Where did i mention ms?
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
There's no mention of this on the Freetype page or LinuxToday.
CmdrTaco appeas to have fallen for a troll submission. Note to Taco: check the link, like you encourage submitters to do.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
While all of you are doing that, I`m busy achiving the Freetype Project download page, before it gets /.`ed.
__________________________________
Free your mind - Flush your toilet
Funny, but I haven't paid a dime to get even Debian installed and working on my system. The closest I've gotten is download time. Since that can happen without my bothering with it, that doesn't count (ie: I kick off the download, and walk away for a while).
GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
I have a VAIO Z-505R. Have had it for almost a year now. Its hard drive clunks, the ethernet dongle is (of course) shot to hell, as is the battery. Lately, its favorite trick is to randomly lose power (when plugged into a perfectly good power source).
A new battery from Sony is several hundred dollars, I didn't even see ethernet dongles available, and taking apart another VAIO laptop to replace its hard drive was a quite painful experience.
Needless to say, I'll not be purchasing another Sony computer, and I hope that others heed my warnings and go with a more solid machine.
This is clearly aimed at - once again - making fools out of Slashdot readers. Doesn't *anyone* verify anything before posting a submission or posting a rant? What a bunch of buffoons. This place has gotten worse than the Usenet.
I especially like the ass who says that based on this article he's buying a Vaio over a PowerBook. Excellent research on which to base your decision...you tool.
The crimes of eBay are a disgrace to it's pig latin heritage!
1)The patent system is so incerdibally bad, we would be better without one at all.
2)Here is a patent system that is better than the one we have currently. Lets use it.
Until either of these points is proved, then it is wrong to abolish the patent system we have currently. Considering the advances we have made this century, and that are being made every day, it doesn't seem to be doing to badly, does it? ;)
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
available in pdf format
Visit my website xpenguin.com -- A linux penguin website
The irony involved in buying a Sony project because you want to avoid manufacturers who unfairly prevent interoperability for their own advantage is just sickening...
Hahaha... good point. I think you forgot about one thing, a company (or person, or government...) is only doing something wrong if the people know about it/haven't fergotten it.
Apple Sues Slashdot for Libel
It may actually suprise some of you, but there are valid innovations in the software industry. Patents like One Click are NOT innovations because they have direct parrallels to daily life, a really nice resturant might keep the CC# of a good customer on file so that he never has to show it again. Apple INVENTED it font technology from scratch when Adobe wanted to charge an arm and a leg for Post Script. If you don't license it from Apple, you can use it. If GNU kids, as smart and clearly innovative as they can be (Sendmail, Apache, Who knows how many scripting languages), can even come up with their own fonts, it merely attacks the coders credibility.
In light of this, for crying out loud Apple, if you are really sueing (since ./ didn't bother to actually check the link which has NOTHING to do with Apple sueing)....IT'S A FONT TECHNOLOGY. I can understand going after ColorSync violators, thats your baby, buy Fonts....thats just being a greedy corporation.
Burn Hollywood Burn
STATUS UPDATE (31-12-1999):
We are finally in contact with Apple's legal department. However, we'll be unable to comment our discussion until they take an official position regarding the patents. This could take some time so don't expect anything soon.
This page will shortly be updated with more detailed information on the patented "inventions" and what can be done meanwhile.
--> STATUS UPDATE (12-mar-2000):
What is this page about ?There are sadly no news on the patent front. However, we have started working on a new auto-hinting module, that will ultimately replace the TrueType bytecode interpreter for those builds that cannot accept the patent issue.
Please go to the FreeType Auto-Hinting Resources Page for more information.
This page is an attempt to sum up various information which recently emerged on the FreeType mailing lists after the discovery that Apple owns several US patents on TrueType. Its purpose is to explain what the patents are, how they can affect us and what can be done.
Who are we ?We are the developers of the FreeType engine, a free and portable TrueType rasterising library. FreeType was written from scratch from the TrueType specification published by Apple and Microsoft, and thus qualifies as a "clean room" implementation of this standard. It is distributed with a BSD-like license, which allows any kind of developers to include it in their products, be they commercial or not.
What are the TrueType patents involved ?We recently discovered that Apple owns several patents related to TrueType. A simple advanced search on IBM's Intellectual Property Network website (http://www.patents.ibm.com/advquery) shows that Sampo Kaasila, who were the original TrueType architect at Apple, was granted 5 patents for Apple related to digital font technology. Three of them seem to relate directly to the TrueType specification :
Patent #1 : US5155805: Method and apparatus for moving control points in displaying digital typeface on raster output devices
Filed on May, 8 1989
Patent #2 : US5159668: Method and apparatus for manipulating outlines in improving digital typeface on raster output devices
Filed on May, 8 1989 too. Actually, the two patents were filed and granted concurrently.
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Do the patents affect FreeType ?:Patent #3 : US5325479: Method and apparatus for moving control points in displaying digital typeface on raster output devices
Filed on May 28, 1992 which is the continuation of patent #1. The difference with this patent are extremely subtle, and we fail to see what it covers which isn't in patent #1.
Apparently yes, it affects the bytecode interpreter used to hint TrueType outlines. It also affects any other similar engine that render TrueType fonts per se the specification.
Note that the TrueType specification used to write FreeType doesn't mention any patent, nor any pending patents. We used the "TrueType Font Format Specification" document, version 1.0, published in 1990 and available from Apple under the reference "ADPA M0825LL/A". None of the successive releases of this paper document, be they in paper or electronic forms mentioned them either. (And yes, we're speaking of the documents produced by both Apple and Microsoft).
In case of violation, how would it affect FreeType ?It's hard to tell, as this depends mostly on Apple's response to the situation. We can imagine having to modify some parts of the code in order to not use the patented "invention". Depending on the patents' peculiarities, this may come at the price of inferior rendered quality, if we're unable to find an alternate algorithm producing the same results.
Another deep question is to know what to do about the currently released versions of FreeType (from 1.0 to 1.3.1). Because of its huge success, FreeType has been succesfully used in a great variety of products like graphics libraries, font servers, printers, web browser plugins, server-side web plugins and more... It is also heavily distributed through the Internet, and the library comes on the latest RedHat and Caldera CDs for example.
We do not reference all the projects that use our library, simply because there are too much and too changing. Many of them are open source and freely distributed, updated and integrated into other products. Clearly, a patent violation would have more than hairy consequences.
We are very concerned that this affair doesn't become a PR disaster for both of Apple and FreeType, as nobody would gain from public backlash. What are patents ?Strictly speaking, when a patent is granted, it permits its owner to excludemembers of the public (those members can be real people or simply companies) from making, using or selling the claimed invention.
Note that a common misconception is that the patent gives its owner the right the make, use or sell its invention. It only gives the owner the ability to exclude others, though he may himself/herself be forbidden from using the invention due to the existence of another patent or other legal restrictions. For example, person A is allowed to patent an improvement over an invention patented by person B. In order to use his/her invention, person A will need the permission from person B. If person C wants to use the improved invention, he/she will need permission from both person A and B !
In practice, a patent owner usually sells limited rights to the invention to customers who want to use its invention. The amount of "permission", i.e. the licensing fees determined by the vendor and customer and can vary enormously. However, nothing prevents a patent owner from excluding any use of its invention, wathever the amount of money proposed by the customer.
On the other hand, patents cover implementations, and not ideas. If someone comes with a different "apparatus" that produces the same results than a patented invention, he/she shall not fall under the patent protection and ask for "permission".
Patents were introduce to encourage inventors to publish their work, in exchange of increased intellectual property protection. A US patent runs for 20 years from the date it is filed to the US Patent and Trademark Office (PTO). A US Patent only applies to making, using and selling the invention in the US .
Finally, here is an extract from the US PTO brochure on patentability :
In order for an invention to be patentable it must be new as defined in the patent law, which provides that an invention cannot be patented if: ?(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent,? or ?(b) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country more than one year prior to the application for patent in the United States . . .?
If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere in the world, or if it has been in public use or on sale in this country before the date that the applicant made his/her invention, a patent cannot be obtained. If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere, or has been in public use or on sale in this country more than one year before the date on which an application for patent is filed in this country, a patent cannot be obtained. In this connection it is immaterial when the invention was made, or whether the printed publication or public use was by the inventor himself/herself or by someone else. If the inventor describes the invention in a printed publication or uses the invention publicly, or places it on sale, he/she must apply for a patent before one year has gone by, otherwise any right to a patent will be lost.
Even if the subject matter sought to be patented is not exactly shown by the prior art, and involves one or more differences over the most nearly similar thing already known, a patent may still be refused if the differences would be obvious. The subject matter sought to be patented must be sufficiently different from what has been used or described before that it may be said to be nonobvious to a person having ordinary skill in the area of technology related to the invention. For example, the substitution of one material for another, or changes in size, are ordinarily not patentable.
Note that the second paragraph makes it hard to understand why patent #3 was granted, given that the TrueType specification was fully published by Apple in 1990, two years before the patent was filed.
What about software patents ?In the US, software patents are considered as normal patents. Moreover, it is possible, through careful use of legal language in the patent application, to patent software algorithms. This is well known from the infamous LZW compression algorithm used for the GIF graphics file format. Another case is the RSA algorithm for prime computations used in many security products.
In Europe, software and algorithms _cannot_ be patented, which means that a european developer is free to develop, use, distribute and market in Europe any software he/she wants, even if it uses algorithms patented under US laws. However, the US patent will apply as soon as he/she wants to distribute, sell or use its software in the US. Moreover, any other person who wants to use, distribute or sell its software in the US will fall under the patent "protection". It is clear that a US patent is also much an issue for any european developer.
The same applies to other countries where the US patent doesn't apply, and where the invention wasn't protected under the local patent office administration, when there is one.
Note that some countries have some aggreements with the US that make any US patent localy effective. Details of such countries are welcomed for updates on this page
LinksFreePatents.org
IBM's Intellectual Property Network
US Patent and Trademark Office Brochure on Patents
Trust the source!
Check my ping, I don't pay for Linux, I dnld it and use it for free. Yes I do have to burn it on to an .88 cent cdr, but I used my last copy to install Linux on five machines.
Maybe you should think before you drink.
Chuck Bucket
----
free ipod and free gmail!
Wouldn't TeX demonstrate prior art, and hence the invalidity of this pathetic patent? What does the patent specify that Metafont did not do a decade before it? It still blows away most systems for representing and rendering fonts.
everyone talks about how Linux is open source and free. If Linux is so free then why do I have to pay Debain, Red Hat, LinuxPPC for a free program?
"Free" is the free as in "free speech", "free citizen" or "free country". It doesn't refer to price. (The usual way of explaining the distinction is by contrasting free speech with free beer .
However, since Red Hat, Debian and so on are free (as in "not enslaved"), you don't have to pay anyone for them. Go and find a friend who has a copy, and take a copy from them. Give it to all your other friends! Read the code so you can find the problems; improve it if you can, and pass it on! This is what the freedom of software's about.
GROGGS: alive and well and living in
Because when you buy a Viao, you are buying a Windows licence.
Is this Apple's new business model? Sue everyone they can for any minisucal infringment they can?
But as we clearly see, any company that sues a non-profit organization over a technology related patent issue doesn't have technology as their top priority. The priorities in this case simply go from money to just being assholes.
In closing, I want to say "Great going, Mr. Jobs". I'd also like to encourage everyone else who was considering becoming an Apple customer in the near future to reconsider. FreeType is one of the more important projects in the Linux community right now (I've been pulling my hair out over X fonts for years). How could any of us possibly support a company like Apple after they do something like this?
This will hurt my karma but it had to be said.
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you don't have to, so keep your fucking mouth shut unless you actually know what you are talking about.
I ask a legitimate question and thank fully get some useful responses but unfortunately you answered. You are the worst kind of linux advocate. It's no wonder that linux hasn't moved into the main stream (the "can i buy it on my machine at best-buy" main stream and not the "option on Dell's website" kind of main stream) - who would want to come to you for help?
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
This is clearly a troll, as others have pointed out--but the troll set up the anti-Apple fanatics in the crowd, who have gleefully jumped all over Apple. Typical of the press, which usually dumps on Apple at every turn, but I expected more from Slashdotters. Are we turning the open source movement into another "Windows rules, Mac's suck" dogma? The knee-jerk response that this story elicited may be helpful to recognize as with the case of religions, an uninformed opinion is just prejudice.
That's absolutely correct. And for that we like 'em as much as any other for profit company, tempered of course be the quality of their software.
Hence, we hate MicroSoft because its product sucks and its profit is unfair to a number of nations; we liked Bungie because their products were great and their profit was acceptable; and we're abivolent to Apple because their products in hardware are good, their software is good but slow moving, and their profits used to not exist but are hell bent on getting larger.
But this has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is that Apple isn't making money from freetype by sueing them (although its costly for all, more so for freetype), but rather apple is enforcing a patent that excludes people from using truetype. This is more an issue of it being rediculous because its not a copyright infringement, and truetype has been around for 5-6 years now. So it comes down to the fact that there shouldn't be patents on such things.
Perhaps apple is scared it will loose whatever it gets from MS for their use of TrueType if they end up managing to do the same as FreeType with a clean-room implementation, or if they figure out how to incorporate FreeType.
-Daniel
This story seems to indicate that back in March the creators knew they were headed into patented waters....
Also I can't find anything that indicates that the posted story is true.
If it is true..Then its ironic because Apple just finished defending itself from a frivolous 2 billion dollar patent suit over color sync..
Sony has a pretty cool Cursoe based laptop not to be off topic or anything. Smite congigated: Smite - Smote - Smitten?
Spyder
The conversation in Job's office...
Jobs- "Earnings are in the toilet people! Nobody wants to buy our overpriced machines anymore! Microsoft won't bail us out this time, and if we get too cheap Larry Ellison will buy us just to piss off Gates! What are we going to do?"
Hapless Apple employee- "Well sir, we could always produce a reasonably priced model and stop pushing these machines as entry level computers..."
Jobs- "Kill him. Now."
*BLAM*BLAM*BLAM*
Hapless Apple employee- "AUGGHHHHH"
Legal- "Well, we could always sue someone who doesn't have any money to begin with."
Jobs- "Good idea! Why the hell can't the rest of you be that fucking smart? No wonder Rambus is worth so much more than we are. (To lawyer) How soon can you get started?"
Lawyer- "Oh, I already have a certain open source project in mind, so I can start flushing money down the... I mean, litigating, any day. Of course I'll need some money to get started. One million dollars should get things rolling..."
I don't have much experience with fonts myself, but wouldn't it be a good idea for someone to come up with a "free", high-quality font format? I don't know the programming implications of this. If anyone has any info, I'd be happy to look into it to see if I can maybe get started on something like this. Is there any reason that TrueType fonts are the only way to go?
Instant Karma's gonna get you...
Has anyone, anywhere, found a shred of evidence that this story is more than vaporous misinformation?
I am considering the purchase of a powerbook for the dual purposes of NLE video editing under MacOS and as a Linux ppc laptop. However, if (and from the looks of it this is a big if) Apple is indeed suing free software projects for any reason whatsoever I do not wish to support them and will forego that particular toy indefinitely.
On the other hand, I do not wish to unfairly penalize Apple for unfounded rumors which they can hardly be faulted for.
As others have said, what gives? The broken link on such an inflammatory story (and an apparent absence of corraborating information anywhere) is truly a new low in slashdot editorial standards.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
My thoughts exactly.
I don't like most stories CmdrTaco posts and I don't think he is very objective (I have read too many KDE stories he twisted in a very negative way), but this is soo stupid.
OTOH it (apple being jerks) is highly plausible, maybe the hackers are smart enough and are laughing their asses off?
Moritz
I actually copyrighted the apple with the bite taken out of the side logo that they use. In order for them to use my "apple bites" logo I must be paid the sum of $1 (one dollar) per machine sold. So I should make about fifty bucks over the next ten years!!!
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
So now free software projects that use the Freetype library are going to be in trouble. IADNAL (I am definitely not a lawyer), so is it illegal to link to an illegal library? At the very least it won't be legal to distribute Freetype, which just about all Linux distributions do.
What really hurts is that the latest version of Xfree86 depends on Freetype for the Xrender extension, so there goes all hopes of Antialiased text for Linux down the drain.
I wonder what Eazel (the Linux software company founded by former bigshot Apple programmers) will think of this? They use Freetype for all the font rendering in their upcoming Nautilus desktop/ file manager.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
Didn't Apple just send cease-and-desist orders to the authors of the various Aqua-like themes for X?
Let me get this straight. Apple uses open-source technology to create a kernel (Darwin) which they ask the community to help develop.
Apple then takes BSD software -- containing large amounts of code that was reverse-engineered from AT&T -- and uses it to create stable underpinnings for their new OS/GUI/coffee-maker.
Apple creates a powerful, sane GUI/windowing system that, while closed-source, may be the alternative to X Windows people have been looking for for 10 years now.
Now Apple attacks the open-source community for infringing on their patents (which they have apparently not bothered to make well known)?! Who's shoulders are you standing on, Apple? Do you really think it's wise to be stirring the shit?
I was looking forward to picking up an iMac to run OS X on (with the Missing Link of course), but if this turns out to be true, I don't know if I can give my money to Apple like that.
I dunno. The URLs at LinuxToday are dynamic somehow -- I've seen them move -- but I can't find the story anywhere. I sincerely hope it doesn't exist.
"That's all I have to say about that" --Forrest Gump
What would be a good place? Hmmmm...
hmmmmm...
The link which was mentioned in one of the first comments to this article is here.
As you can see from the datestamp of the status update, Freetype has known these issues exist for quite awhile. I don't know when this page was originally created.
As an aside: everyone talks about how Linux is open source and free. If Linux is so free then why do I have to pay Debain, Red Hat, LinuxPPC for a free program?
You don't have to pay Debian, Redhat, LinuxPPC, SuSE, Slackwear, or anyone else for their distro. You can download their software from many ftp sites, burn onto a CD, and install. In addition, many distros have a network install, so you can download the distro and install right over the net (Redhat does, Mandrake does, I think SuSE does, not sure who else).
HTH.
What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?
Still not dead.
Isn't it legal to develop code against a patent, as long as it's not used in the U.S. where the patent exsists? OpenSSH used RSA while it was patented here, and U.S. users were supposed to obtain a license from RSA Data Securities. Can't FreeType do the same... say that U.S. users are required to get a license from Apple?
Maybe I should email rob about RedHat suing Apple over GUI issues and see if that gets a headline.
Only 8 years untill most of the patents expire. Decent X rendering in 2009? Hooray!
Since the Internet is more or less a written medium, Taco could be sued for libel by Apple. This might be a somewhat appropriate action for Apple to take, since it seems pretty clear they aren't suing anyone at this point over TrueType rendering systems, much less the Freetype crew.
If nothing else, a suit might just encourage the editors to check the damn story before posting and commenting on it.
If it were just a reply to a story, I'd let it slide; we all know lots of B.S. is dropped in comment sections. When it's the people who run the site failing to check facts and unfairly tarnishing an individual or company's image, those people have no reason to be surprised when the victim takes action.
Why, yes, I am rather miffed at Taco for letting this get by. Worst. Story. Ever.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
The freetype project isn't a corporation. How the hell can you enforce a patent against a group of individuals that isn't registered in any form with the government? They're not even a non-for-profit corporation! Who would you sue? All the developers?
And, IANAL, patents can't be enforced against individuals. We do have *that* little bit of civil liberty.
So, could Apple even do such a thing?
Until you can show your source this is pretty much libel, Slashdot would be wise to remove this story.
I am considering the purchase of a powerbook for the dual purposes of NLE video editing under MacOS and as a Linux ppc laptop. However, if (and from the looks of it this is a big if) Apple is indeed suing free software projects for any reason whatsoever I do not wish to support them and will forego that particular toy indefinitely.
On the other hand, I do not wish to unfairly penalize Apple for unfounded rumors which they can hardly be faulted for.
May I recommend that you go one step further and, should the rumor be founded, assess whether Apple's suit is justifiable?
What if a free software developer releases an operating system called "Mac OS X" that's really just a PPC linux with an Aqua skin? Is Apple allowed to sue then, according to your ethics?
What if the rumor turns out to be false, and Apple sues Slashdot/Andover.net for libel? Wouldn't that be _great_? I can see the posting now...a hastily written lead by Rob, with an [update] from Hemos, and a conflict in the threads between "I saw this coming! Now the anti-Apple revolution begins!" and "They should have seen this coming! Finally the counter-Slashdot revolution begins!"
I don't see how this is in Apple's best interest since Freetype doesn't threaten them. But it is in Microsoft's. How much you wanna bet this is due to some deal between them made behind closed doors? If Microsoft sues then that's bad PR. But since Apple is about as sue-happy as the "church" of $cientology, this is par for the course for them. It will be interesting to see what happens. I've always thought an interesting way to avoid these kinds of problems is to develop in secret, even though that might not be possible for something of this scale.
Lee Reynolds
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Does FreeType have another website that I'm not aware of?
I do however, acknowledge that I probably deserve whatever abuse I get from Slashdot readers regarding purchasing anything from Apple in the first place.
Hey, you think your house is cool?
See the source code on this page Someone seem to have commented it out but my source cut and paste go it. Weird.
Trust the source!
Hi and welcome to VaporDOT News! All the news that we can make up and more!
Today's top stories:
Apple sues FreeType for patent infringement.
Microsoft produces version of Linux. Code Name: Windex.
Microsoft porting their popular Office produce to Linux.
Jon Katz writes highly interesting story about something non-Hellmouth related.
and finally
Linux Kernel 2.4 finally released!
The Tick - "Spoon!"
NEO - "There is no spoon."
"Bah!" - Dogbert
All I care about is how MacOS anti-aliases everything, even fonts that were meant to be rasterized and rendered grainy. Perhaps I should sue Apple for threatening to ruin my 20/40 vision.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Here's the real reason the link is unrelated, I found this at Freshmeat.net Tuesday, Jan 2 LinuxToday editors, incessed at their low readership compared to the more popular Linux news source - Slashdot - pulled a little prank today. Posting a story about a big company sueing a free software product (the perfect bait for a slashdot editor) and submitting a link to the story to slashdot, they pulled the story from their database completely and redirected the old link to an unrelated story as soon as the bait was bitten.
There's no reason for a sig here.
Where do I go to get a full-time job clicking a submit button once an hour without actually having to validate the submission?
I was reading an article on LinuxToday about SQL and DELETE and went to click on a related link listed below the story: O'Reilly Network: AboutSQL: Filtering SELECTed Data with WHERE(Nov 11, 2000) . The link took me to the same article about data storage.
My guess is that the story probably was there before some piece of code went bad. Interesting use of a 404 error.
Getting sued just because some Latino firm is using a FlashDisk to share RAID5 storage between a Linux PC and an NT PC.
Does anyone know what other hardware configurations will make Apple sue Freetype, or make CmdrTaco think Apple is suing Freetype? What will make Apple sue Microsoft? Maybe using Intel NICS to connect a BeOS PC and a OS/2 PC through a D-LINK hub.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic." --Homer Simpson
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I read over at ScottSloan.com that what you said is all bullshit.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
by an impostor!
I did not post this story to slashdot.
P2P Anonymous Distributed Web Search: http://www.yacy.net/
I think there is something to be learned from the metaphore that Thomas Jefferson used to describe the movement of ideas. The receipient of an idea "receives light without darkening mine." This is undoubtably a positive image but it seems somewhat outdated in the current climate of patent/copyright wars.
This is important, because it seems to me that a more common metaphore in modern times is that of a "meme" which is likened to a virus. Generally, the image is much more negative.
Open source, in its most general sense, seems to be born in the first metaphore; I program to enlighten myself and, by doing so, enlighten others.
Proprietary software, I'm going to pick on Apple in this case, wants to work like the second idea; I present the open aspects (TrueType) so that you must pay me for the secret aspects (the TrueType rendering software). Here's the virus for free, pay me every week for the medicine to aleviate the symptoms.
I realize the news of the lawysuit was probably a hoax, so take this post for what it is... either a "candle" or a "virus".
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
IANAL, but I've read a number of times that for libel to hold up, three things have to be proved:
1. Untrue information was published.
2. The author knew the info to be untrue.
3. The author published the false info with the intent to harm another party.
Libel suits are often litigated but rarely won in the US because of the difficulty in proving numbers two and three.
a.) This doesn't cover rumors ("original sources" other than the publication) submitted by people and not originating from the news magazine itself.
b.) Apple has to prove that their business was hurt substantially by the libel.
c.) Apple has to prove that it was a lengthy or reasonably harmful amount of time that this damage occurred.
d.) Slander is the vocal version, libel is the written version.
--
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I know, spelling flames are poor netiquette. But this is more than I can handle.
Besides, it's about patent issues, not copyrights.
Good link though.
I can ramble with the best of them.
These kind of mistakes totally negate Rob's argument against a K5 type submission system. They're not *reviewing* anything, just some cursory skimming for keywords or submissions by "preferred" individuals.
What does Rob do anyway? He doesn't work on the code that much anymore. Hell, he even has someone else read his mail for him! If going over submissions is his only responsibility now, you'd think he try a little harder to give a damn.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
At some point patents went from being valid for 17 years from when they were issued to 20 years from when they were filed. I think this falls under the 17 year case, and it was issued November 11, 1986. That means it will expire November 11, 2003.
That is great news for free software, because it means that you can do boolean calculations of graphical shapes (important to efficient screen updating) go vastly faster than, say, maintaining a list of rectangles.
It would, in general, be real useful for someone to keep an eye on the patent that are currently expiring and to make suggestions on which ones would be good candidates for free software. This is harder than you might think, not just because of the legalese but because patents usually don't say they are for software but are couched in terms of mechanical or electronic devices, so it's not even clear when a software patent exists.
Michael D. Crawford
GoingWare Inc
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
And who did MS rip off of? If their claim is true, then they stole from Xerox too, and then stole the idea for a XeXT taskbar, and some Apple stuff, too. The Mac was mostly ideas taken from the Lisa.
Don't patents only last nine years (seven, eleven, an odd number, I thought). At worst, only patent #3 would apply, right. Or can a company who's patent has expired go after someone for past patent violations.
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
Man, the last thing you want to do is give Apple ideas about who to sue...
--hongpong.com
How many others didn't see the small comma between the words "NOT" and "UPDATED" at first? When I first saw it, it looked largely amusing...until I noticed the comma.
Small things tend to dissappear on monitors, so PLEASE try to make sentences which don't have the possibility of such errors, or put in a larger marker (eg. exclamation point).
I doubt, therefore I may be.
I nominate this as the Slashdot newbit of the mmillenniumm. People who use truetype fonts with RAID arrays are just asking for trouble.
Partition new drive
Install win2k
Wait several months, using computer whole time
Install ME
Curse
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
Rob, shit like this is what gives your critics ammunition. "We're checking up on this information," well shit, you didn't check up on this while it was in the submission queue? Isn't that what it's there for, to give the authors time to check stories before posting them?
What the hell happened? Did you get lazy this time? There's been a lot of evidence lately that links never, ever get checked before a story is posted. Every other story is either a broken link, or the synopsis is completely different from the actual story content. It's becoming a fucking joke.
Please, Rob. You, Jeff, timothy, jamie, michael, everyone take a month off and let someone else handle the site. Come back when you're ready to do your job correctly. It's becoming pretty clear you're burning out, it's doing great harm to the quality of the site, and something needs to be done about it.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Suggestion for a new poll:
In your oppinion, cmdrTaco published the Apple Suing FreeType story because:
we love reading Apple-bashing stories
he's on a hangover
he's still drinking the New Year's champagne
he suffered the effects of the Y2K1 Bug
CowboyNeal told him the link was OK
Sorry, but I couldn't resist...
this posting on slashdot is pretty disturbing. i know we all suspected that the editors rarely read the links they post in any detail, but i would never have expected this kind of sloppy journalism. i know slashdot is hardly the New York Times, but this is bad, even for slashdot.
it's funny how people are willing to instantly believe something if it fits nicely into their point of view, wether there's proof or not. it's pretty obviously that Taco dislikes Apple, and he patently (hah) despises patents. when the two are put together, it's just so overwhelmingly good news, why even bother to follow the link?
for some reason i was reminded of the infamous "LSD user blinded by staring at the sun" hoax that went around a long while ago. the story spread like wildfire, and morphed the details each time. every major news outlet (the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Newsweek and Time Magazine among others) reported this horrible story about four "normal" college kids that were perminantly blinded while "holding a religious conversation with the sun."
the whole story was found to be a hoax constructed by a Dr. Yoder from the Institute of the Blind in Pennsylvania, who admitted he had made up the story "because I am concerned about the illicit use of LSD and other drugs."
so how is it that all these reputable news outlets all published the same obviously false article? because it nicely fit the popular opinion of the editors and readers
so i suppose if this can happen to the most established news outlets, then we shouldn't really expect any different from slashdot. if you ever thought slashdot was a better breed than your mainstream media, what the hell were you thinking? at any rate, i think the moral here is this: remember that slashdot is ignorant and biased as any other media outlet. don't let the fact that it generally supports your views to cloud your own judgement.
(ps: Apple isn't quite as "evil" as you think they are, despite what slashdot feeds you)
- j
There is no power to grant copyright or patent to corporations, only to persons.
IANAL (who is, on slashdot?), but it is my understanding that corporations are legally treated as persons, and this was upheld by the US Supreme Court in the late 19th century.
So do everything in your power to get that decision overturned, that would be a good start.
K5 has a story about a particular Slashdotter not checking his links Right Here
COMpany = COMmercial
Untrue. There are many companies that aren't involved in commerce. Incorporated charities for example (some carry out commercial activities others don't). It is true though that many companies are commercial entities, that that is no bad thing and that it should be obvious that Apple is one such.
...how stupid do all the people who quite obviously didn't even try to follow the link feel right now?
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Behold the immense power of this article, it has already gotten many people angry at Apple, and if what was claimed isn't true, then a lawsuit could get slapped on slashdot, big time.
I guess everyone now appreciates the damage that false statements can cause.
========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
web server: if browser IP == Andover/Slashdot ISP subnet then print HTML else redirect to goatxe.cx
cpeterso
ridiculopathy
everyone knows that the moderators will mod you up if you say "I'll probably get modded down for this." The moderators don't want to seem unduly unfair or spiteful, so they mod it up. It's a reverse-psychology, pseudo-blackmail strategy.
cpeterso
industrial America was on a corporate crack-high at the time, and thought this was A-OK.
The USA is still a corportist state. The information revolution is the crackbaby of the industrial revolution. The US gub'mint is flat broke and must suck the dick of the rich corporations for pocket change.
cpeterso
I don't belive in Taco-bashing as that doesn't accomplish anything. What I do believe in is calling this what it is...sloppy work. The whole point of the story queue is to weed out the BS. And for all of us who have posted legitimate stories to have them rejected, we have to have some sort of faith that there is a reasonable process at work here to continue to share the information we come across. But if it appears the stories are posted at random, that no editorial control is applied beyond looking at the title and letting emotion dictate what goes and what stays, then the whole process, the whole site, becomes meaningless.
As time goes, integrity must increase, not decrease.
This is not the way to build a lasting empire.
I think they might be guilty of libeling Apple, but not slandering them (unless there is a new audio-only version of Slashdot).
"libel - a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression."
"slander - a false and defamatory oral statement about a person."
"And like that
"We're sorry. The link referred to in this article is incorrect."
Ummm... Does this mean that you guys posted the story without even checking the link?
Of course, I think it would also be dumb for Apple to push these patents. There are other ways of doing high quality typography (Freetype is exploring some of them), and Apple would only lose in the process.
Thanks to the person that moderated me up as "underrated" -- the average intellect of Slashdot readers has thus risen immeasurably. Two others thought this was a Troll (whatever the hell that is) -- two clueless people who are too stupid to realize how the system works.
Better still, if this is a hoax, it simply shows what a credulous, incestuous little cesspit of unbridled rumor and malicious gossip Slashdot is. Not worth the paper that it isn't written on.
Notice that it says "exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries." On the surface, this would seem to allow assignment of "exclusive right" to "discoveries." New math, new genes, etc. Things that were unknown until they were discovered by someone. "Discovered" can mean "invented," as in, "discovered a new way to separate cotton fiber from the rest of the plant." The Cotton Gin was the invention embodying the discovery of an improved method for doing that work. I do not think it is appropriate to patent or copyright genes; how could anyone claim ownership oer something that's been in our bodies (or those of animals, plants, etc.) long before any "discovery" work was even begun? I think this is solved by reading "discovery" with its "invented" meaning; after all, the constitution assigns exclusive right to an inventor for his discovery. After all, no one seriously thinks that other things pre-existing in nature can be assigned exclusively to their first discoverer -- think stars and planets. Discovery of new land is often awarded exclusively to people; this would seem to contradict what I just said. However, people are not awarded exclusive right over Land (i.e., all land-type things), but over a specific bit of land meticulously staked out and measured. The adjoining land, which is more of less identical, may be assigned exclusively to someone else, and often is.
New math is not really invented, as it is a language for describing the behavior of numbers. Pre-existing genes are not invented. However, a novel, strictly man-made gene could be patented. And methods for isolating, duplicating and transferring genes can be patented.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Like all Vaios the drivers are unavailable from Sony (if you can find 'em, let me know), so you're stuck with running the restore disk if any problems come up. And the several models we have all hate their USB interface when more than just a mouse... Let's jusrt say the Vaios aren't really happy when you start installing software.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
IANAL, but I've read a number of times that for libel to hold up, three things have to be proved:
1. Untrue information was published.
2. The author knew the info to be untrue.
3. The author published the false info with the intent to harm another party.
Yes and no. First, #2 should read, "...knew, or reasonably should have known..." That is, just because you hear something doesn't mean you can print it on the front page as a fact. You need to have independent verification, and even then your butt might be in a sling if it turns out what you heard is wrong. I wrote a weekly column for a local paper for two years and my editor was a stickler on this point. The best verification is internal documents, or quotes from internal sources who have reason to know whereof they speak. Also, you always at least try to give the subject of the accusations a chance to comment on anything negative you print about them.
The thing about all this is, journalists are not required (at least in the US) to disclose their sources. So you could theoretically make up an "anonymous source", but after a few stories based on such made-up "sources" fall flat, you're going to get looked at pretty hard (and there was recently a high-profile case of a journalist who made up anonymous sources and ended up publicly disgraced).
Also, I believe journalists operate under a special set of rules, much like stockbrokers, doctors, lawyers or several other professionals do. There's a civil cause of action called "reckless disregard", which is basically libel without the intent to harm. Basically if you print something that could be injurious if it's untrue, and it's discovered that you didn't properly verify it beforehand, you can get slapped with reckless disregard. It probably won't land you in jail, but it probably will get you fired, or at severely demoted/reprimanded. In theory this matters even if what you print is true but in practice it only comes out when the paper gets egg on its face for printing your harebrained speculations.
-- Old Man Kensey
I'm as much for condoning honest mistakes as the next guy. However, this is not just a simple mistake. Checking a link is only the most basic thing the story submission and approval process is supposed to do! We all make mistakes doing what we do, but not doing the most basic part of your job is not a mistake!
Mmmm.. Donuts
yeah, but look at all the people who posted opinions without reading the story... i'll bet they feel dumb right about now.
"...can you imagine a BEOWULF CLUSTER of these? That'd be some serious power!"
I've never heard of trolltalk. How do you post there? Do people just edit their URL when posting to use comments.pl?sid=trolltalk ? good idea.
cpeterso
and all that.
cpeterso
Search results for "Freetype" on linuxtoday:
Computer Bits: Linux/etc [helpful Linux tips]
PressOct 15th, 2000
GNOME Summary April 25-May 8
News,GNOME,BSDMay 8th, 2000
GNOME 0.99.3 ready for easy installation
News,SoftwareJan 26th, 1999
TrueType fonts in PostScript--use ttftot42-0.3
Press ReleasesJan 8th, 1999
A few recent stories on Apple don't contain the name "freetype" either.
MSK
Yesterday on /. it was reported that Battle.net had been compromised. Top playas of Diablo II were dropping dead like flies, and people were having thier quality shit jacked.
/. it was reported that Apple was picking on an Open Source project to reverse engineer technology that's almost twenty years old. Someone convinced CT that Apple was screewing us over. Now it is clear there is nothing to substantiate this rumor.
/. as a news source? When that news source screews up do they not need to re-affirm thier credability?
Everyone wanted Blizzard to recognize the problem in some sort of public statement. People felt Blizzard had screewed up and now sat in silence while everyone wanted to know "WTF?"
Today on
I'm wonder if we will get any explaination from The Man at Slashdot. People wanted one from Blizzard. Shouldn't we be consistant? Do we trust
We're Zealots when we are quick to rush to the defence of all things Linux but we are so quick to assume the worst about Apple.
The life of the IP should not depend on the life of the author. If it does, you are building in an incentive to bump off the author.
That certainly would explain the way the RIAA and the entertainment industry in general treat the creators. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
"So what if Cmdr. Taco made a mistake (I'm not just kissing ass here)"
So what if the mistake could have been avoided if one freaking link was clicked on? It would be one thing if this was an elaborate hoax, but all the submitter did was link to a Linux Today which isn't related to the issue at hand. And it was sent to the front page.
"Newspapers make errors all the time and retract/correct."
You're correct. They also verify their sources. Tell me, how many times has USA Today or the Washington Post had hoax stories on their front page? I'm not saying that Rob has to play detective, but what's so hard about clicking on one link to check the story?
And don't hand me the argument that Slashdot is "Rob's baby." It stopped being "Rob's baby" when it joined the ranks of VA Linux and the OSDN.
This mistake could have been easily avoided. But if Rob is so haggled that he can't even click on a link to verify something, then maybe he should rethink his priorities...
--
--
The real Raunchola isn't cool enough to have any imposters
Step right up, step right up.... No rhyme or reason needed, folks! It's Apple-bashin' time! Just make something up.
> And don't hand me the argument that Slashdot is "Rob's baby." It stopped being "Rob's baby" when it joined the ranks of VA Linux and the OSDN.
parents will be parents.. always. your mom will still mother you after you're married. That aside.. a single check shouldn't be too much..
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
I don't pay for Linux, I dnld it and use it for free.
In some parts of the world (including most of Europe AFAIK), an Internet connection is still billed by the minute. Even then, a connection fast enough to download a multi-CD distro in less than a day (shipping time) may cost more than the distro costs at cheapbytes.com.
Tetris on drugs, NES music, and GNOME vs. KDE Bingo.
Will I retire or break 10K?
i think apple will crush the market with this little toy. i posted here cause slashdot is a bitch place where you can post histories os easy. so i used threads methods to post this. http://www.sotrap.net/PDA.gif enjoy.
---- EoF
Hmmm... I wonder, does Microsoft have a license to use Apple's TrueType patents?
Yes. MS got a license way back in the Windows 3.1 days in a cross-licensing deal that involved MS's PostScript-like TrueImage technology.
Tetris on drugs, NES music, and GNOME vs. KDE Bingo.
Will I retire or break 10K?
This post is hardly offtopic (how it is moderated as I read it), and it DOES have a lot to do with the current topic.
I'm also wondering the same thing.
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
If the idea truly requires much development and assembling of resources to exploit then the originator will have the natural advantage of a significant head start and perhaps deserves no more than that.
If the idea is so easy to copy that others can very quickly bring a competitive idea to market after the inventor's version becomes public then maybe it was not such a brilliant idea after all and does not deserve the benefit of a legal monopoly.
The basic question which needs to be addressed, not begged, is: How do we know when the natural commercial advantages that accrue to an originator, however large or small, are insufficient and must therefore be supplemented by a legal device such as a patent?
As for Thomas Jefferson, he was approaching the issue of IP from the standpoint of moral philosophy, not economics -- and even if he was agruing economics what does his personal finances have to do with it? Would you have us believe that Bill Gates is a better economist that Milton Friedman, Paul Samuelson and all the other Nobel Prize winning economists put together because he is wealthier than they?
"Obtuse Anger is that which is greater than Right Anger" - Lewis Carroll
"Obtuse Anger is that which is greater than Right Anger" - Lewis Carroll
Give it time, they won't be around.
until (succeed) try { again(); }
until (succeed) try { again(); }
An innovation is a product or service that responds to a market need. How does 1-click not fit under this? I want to buy books quicker -- 1 click is one of the features that keeps me going back to Amazon.com.
-Stu