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Interview: Ask Jon Katz Almost Anything
I have gotten a stack of e-mails lately requesting an interview with Jon Katz. And last Friday, after we got Jon up on the little stage in our LinuxWorld booth, where he engaged in a live two-hour dialog with over 100 Slashdot readers and other show attendees, I got the same request in person - over and over. Jon is, without doubt, the most hated Slashdot Author, but he is also the most-read, the most-discussed, and the most puzzling, at least according to the e-mail I get about him. It's time to stop guessing about Jon and why he writes what he does the way he does, and to simply ask him! One question per post, please. The question and moderation cutoff time is Wednesday noon, U.S. EST, at which time I'll forward 10-15 questions to Jon via e-mail. Answers will appear Friday.
I noticed at one point this morning that someone had declared this Troll Day. I don't recall this day in particular being nominated for "mandated" or even just increased trolling (I would have advocated August 22nd for reasons that should be obvious). At any rate, my natural instincts are to eschew such expected behaviour. It's like egging a house on Halloween . . . what fun is it if people expect it? Well, lots actually, but it's more fun if you egg a house in the middle of July. No one expects that. And the eggs will be REALLY stinky. It's also possible that by morning the house will be overrun with birds or small woodland creatures trying to lap up some sort of sustanance from the 24 dozen eggs you've covered the target with (again, for reasons that should be obvious). I mean, everyone likes squirrels when they're far away; they're very cute. But when they're running around on your roof at 5 am when you're trying to sleep and chattering away at the birds, trying to protect the foodstuffs with what meager resources they can. I think it would be pretty funny if someone taught the squirrels to use tools. They'd be bashing the birds over the heads with little hammers made out of sticks with rocks tied to the end. Eventually they'd learn to make little guns. They probably wouldn't bother the people much until they were developing squirrel-scale rockets with nuclear warheads. The average squirrel is about 7% as tall as the average human, so bullets from thier guns or arrows or what not wouldn't do too much damage. Unless they hit you in the eye. I HATE that. I know what you're thinking, but it wouldn't be making the same mistake that we made with the prarie dogs. Squirrels are MUCH more responsible, and I'm sure they could maturely deal with the added responsibility of tools and firearms than the filthy desert rats. It might even work out to be a solution to the problem. As you know, most of the prarie dog erradication efforts have failed due to the size difference. Every time we come close to finishing them off, they hide in a tiny little tunnel that was overlooked. I swear they're worse than cockroaches. Since squirrels are smaller than prarie dogs, they could easily follow where a human operative can not. We could train little squirrel commandos. It's probably best that we embrace them without species prejudice . . . after all, it's our fault they jumped up a few dozen rungs in the food chain. It likely isn't a good idea to mix a ladder and chain metaphor, but I'm a bastard like that.
At any rate, I realized that I've been silent for a while now. I haven't trolled since wednesday, and that was only a half-assed inside joke. There are people COUNTING on me. I think of all the starving children waiting in their internet cafes (because they can't afford home pcs. And the ones that CAN have to use iMacs. Brings a tear to your eye, doesn't it?) for my next post. Constantly re-loading Slashdot articles until the next article is posted (which isn't actually fair, because I do sometimes retro-troll if there's a still-relatively fresh story. Perhaps a non-profit orginization could be started to make sure underprivladged children don't miss out on the gnarphlager-trolls that could give them the same level of inanity as any other middle-class suburban h4X0r wannabe). I think of how I could really make a difference in thousands, nay, tens of thousands of lives EVERY DAY. It's selfish of me to devote time to "work" or "e-mail" or even "sleep". It's not that I COULDN'T have a social life . . . I forsake social interaction for the good of all. And I can't let any half-assed mock idealism interfere with my civic duty. So even though someone has declared today troll day, I will STILL TROLL.
Honestly, I was sick last week, and busy when I was healthy. But I'm better now, and I don't have as much work. Though my band is rehearsing three times a week now, but that should only increase my desire to troll. I can't promise the volume that you all deserve, but I can promise an increase from the virtually nothing of last week. I still love you all.
thank you for your time.
Dear Jon,
In reading your Hellmouth pieces, and more recently, your essay concerning the "Please die" correspondence, it seems that you expect life to transcend the "nasty, brutish, and short" nature that has characterized it since the last Ice Age.
How did you happen to adopt this naive idealism? Was it drugs? It was drugs, wasn't it?
Yours truly,
Rat Bastard
Age 6
How would being sodomized by Natalie Portman influence your writing style?
I have gotten a stack of e-mails lately requesting an interview with Roblimo. And last Friday, after we got Roblimo up on the little stage in our LinuxWorld booth, where he engaged in a live two-hour dialog with over 100 Slashdot readers and other show attendees, I got the same request in person - over and over. Roblimo is, without doubt, the most hated Slashdot Author, but he is also the most-read, the most-discussed, and the most puzzling, at least according to the e-mail I get about him. It's time to stop guessing about Roblimo and why he writes what he does the way he does, and to simply ask him! One question per post, please. The question and moderation cutoff time is Wednesday noon, U.S. EST, at which time I'll forward 10-15 questions to Roblimo via e-mail. Answers will appear Friday.
You mean "Bruce Perens." or the real Bruce Perens?
This identity theft shit is really laughable that so many seem to swallow it whole!
When did you discover that you hated Christians?
What, in your past, led to your constant demonization of Christians?
What sort of training does it take to be completely insensitive to the deeply held beliefs of others? Can you receive college credits in this training or can it apply to a MSCE accreditation?
Are you the rightful heir to throne of Hell? If so, what is your favorite color?
Moderate this up!!!
I think that this should be the only question pitched.
If your IP address is getting banned, it's an excellent sign that you are not a troll, but a spammer. If you were a troll, you'd be moderated up to (2, Insightful), and might stay there, unless some wise moderator noticed your too-clueless tone of voice.
Or, if you weren't a troll in the classic sense, but instead someone who posts funny material, and equally, if not more respectable pasttime, it would get alternately moderated down as as troll and up as funny.
But if you get enough negative moderation to qualify for an IP ban, it's obvious that you're putting too little effort into too many posts to be a troll, and you therefore must be a spammer.
Thank you.
Have you plotted the locations of the school shootings on a map?
Please do.
Now, draw lines between them.
Notice how they all have one location in the U.S. in common?
Interesting isn't it.
Please don't downgrade this post because it sounds like BS. It isn't.
But you will anyway. You moderators are to lazy to check out anything outside your tiny little world.
What has to happen for you to consider yourself as having reached your goal [on Slashdot] and to say "It's all done. There's no more to be done. Good night all."?
So John, do you ever use, or at least gleem a topic from KatzDot?
Trollin' Tuesdays are where it's at!
JonKatz can suck my fat one
TrollKing
I had raunchy hardcore anal sex with Hillary Clinton and Janet Reno.
I have a question. Who is John Katz? Seriously.
Do you know where the spell check button in on your word processor?
So John, do you ever feel that you don't "get no respect" from the geek community that you seem to be trying to embrace? Do you feel like a digital Rodney Dangerfield?
Oh god, don't ask him this question. He'll never shut up!
I saw this show called Dr. Katz and it stars this complete goofball named Jonathan (sp?) Katz... It used to be on Comedy Central. I think you know what I'm getting at... Are you drawn in squiggle-vision? I just thought it was a little odd...
Then get the hint: get rid of him.
People read, discuss and ponder Katz because he is so infuriatingly naieve, irrelevant, self-important, rambling and unrepresentative. We hate Katz for the same reason that Republicans hate Clinton: so very not "one of us" yet shoved in our face and defining the issues.
Katz is a wannabe who has managed to insert himself into the spotlight. He continues because of the attention, which is mostly in the form of boos and rotten tomatos thrown instead of applause; continuing on in the face of such despisement and perciving dismay as praise is narcissism.
Katz has described himself as an outsider, a non-nerd, who writes at length about how people should accept outsiders. He, like Hillary Clinton, should learn that the way to acceptance is not suddenly joining a group and acting as spokesman, despite not having any prior connections to the group.
Katz is a narcissistic non-nerd who is widely despised by your readership. Take the hint of present comments and prior history. Get rid of him.
this is gonna be a spectacle to behold..... you better go add more moderator points rob ;) and prolly add a few new planes of metamoderation...
Would you honestly detail biases (political or class) coloring your writing?
kinky buttsex juices on your face
u r an idiot!!!! thats all there is to it!!!
now get off slashdor b4 i come over there and kick ur ass!!!!
Observe in quiet desperation
Slowing towards petrification
Mr Katz:
Do you perceive a US focus in your writing? Is writing for the international audience that's inevitable in today's distributed, networked environment important to you?
I find your writing to be quite focused on US culture, with many generalisations and assumptions from a cultural background which probably less than half your readership share.
Can I masturbate repeatedly on your ass? PLEASE???
We don't hate Christians. All cultists scare us.
Oh yeah baby, lets have a contest about the longest one sentence paragraph that we could all write about regarding our friendly author who has fallen into hard times due to his misguided concepts of what a geek is about and popular "culture" that is represented by geekdom and it's other entities, such as slashdot and the members of the irc communities which represent geeks at their second best, the best being when they are all drunk and hugging cowboy neal, oh speaking of cowboy neal, what big udders you got boy, i would guess that if there was such a time that the world sees a casatrophic effect such as that shown in the incredible movie dr. strange love or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb by the incredbile directory stanley kurbick who also directed such multimillion dollar block busters such as 2001 (a truly intelligent movie with the help of Sir, Arthur C Clarke (whom I'm told refused his knighthood due to the current case in srilanka (island nation off india), where he has lived for the past couple of decades, regarding pediphilic behavior) involving monoliths and the artificially intelligent entity HAL 9000, made by the charasmatic Dr Sirvasubramanian Chandrasegarampillai of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champagn (Most recently Dr Chandra was honored by the deep space seeking satellite fondly naked Chandra ) ) and the not so famous movie eyes wide shut where tom cruse is driving into a very obscine orgy house with a wife (played by his real wife) who is slutty enough to think about other men and fantasie while tom is screwing every woman he could lay his finger (or the thing in between) on ) those very udders could help feed the nerds in the compound and keep them alive for centuries to till such time as katz is a thing of the past and never heard from ever in this dimension of time and space, you are welcome.
As the guy said in the Dilbert cartoon: "Great... I'm in the freak section."
Whew, I thought you were about to say you had sex with Hitler and Jon Katz.
no.. I am.
Dear Mr. Jon Katz: I have always wondered if Hitler was a major influence in your life. If so, why haven't you been burned in an oven yet? I mean surely a man of your stupidity should be experimented upon and burned alive. Oh yes another question, have you ever thought of following thru on any of the "please die" requests. If I was you, and obviously I am not the great Jon Katz because if I was I would of ended my pathetic life by taking a drive off of a cliff or even eaten razor blade filled candy during halloween but is that the point? nope. I don't think so. Back to my original question of, "WHY DONT YOU JUST DIE?" please answer me soon thanks!! Oh yes, I have another quesiton. NATALIE PORTMAN, doggy or missionary? Oh but I bet you are gay since I am your lovely butt loving boy friend. PRIVMSG me on irc please, my nickname is JONKATZLUVR4U on DALNet. Thanks! ps: What is your favorite color?
I thought I told you to die. Why aren't you dead yet?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Now shut the fsck up.
as being representations of sacred cum-gods and cum-goddesses, furthermore cum was used as a food and traded even across the americas by sea going egyptians who had been driven out by the pharao for attempting to regenerate the cumocracy tim: John you mean they sailed all this way, thousands of years before columbus reached San Salvador in 1492? john: tim that is exactly what im saying, but not just me, there are thousands of archaeologists from around the world who write the same thing, the only problem is they use obscure journals and notes and its hard to get at what they are doing. now to get back to my earlier point tim: i didnt meant to interrupt you heh heh john: tim thats ok he he, you can reward me with a nice tall glass of cum after the show. :tim: heh heh :john: heh heh.. ok now as i was saying the cum god was very powerful force in early first-nations cultures such as the Bantu, the Indo, the Saxons, and Jute-Arapaho of Southern Kolahstan. . . this cum - force is even thought by astronomers to have started the big bang, as a fusion of quantum lattice field tensors could not spontaneously generate any eddies or non-uniformities without some sort of outside perturbation :tim: and this is what cum is thought to be responsible for :john: yes exactly, cum is, in a sense, the creator of the universe, visible on every scale from macro to micro, and in the very essence of the spirit-world that all religions take par tin :tim: now i think some religions are going to disagree with you, they will say they are cum-free. what do you say to that? :john: well i dont know what to say, i mean, theres scientific proof, theres religious proof, i think if you listen to god long enough, or buddha, or whatever, the spirit of the cosmos, the cum will be within you, even though maybe you dont believe it or accept it. the cum is just the cum.. im not trying to be judgemental :tim: no of course not :john: right, that would be horrible, but at the same time dont you have to say look, "the cum is here and the cum is going to stay" and i say yes, cum cum cum cum, and we are trying to say look at cum in a new way, dont be hindered by the old stuff, we just need to be into that and stop trying to conform to what some other people think and just start getting into cum.. hard core cum. :tim: john thank you so much i think my line space is about to run out here, id like to go on with this for hours.. :john: well tim you know i think we can do that
When I read your features on Slashdot I get the impression that you view the new online culture as a product of the Internet, rather than a reflection of contemporary culture in general. I'm wondering if you've ever read Robert Bly and his critiques of contemporary society (e.g., The Sibling Society. Sometimes I think your features would be better if they were placed in a larger context.
Dear Jon Katz, Please die.
Did you ever think cashing in on geeks would get you this far?
Isn't it funny
That the Jon Katz interview
Is on "Troll Tuesday"?
No, seriously.
I dunno. Why do you keep posting on Slashdot even though so many people are outwardly hostile towards you, Signal 11? You don't even seem to value your own opinion (you said time and again that you gather karma like a manic-depressive Monopoly player gloats over colored bits of paper by using 'Slashdot dogma'), and people don't consider you much more than an annoyance or a troll that gets moderated up; so why do you do it?
Moderators: sure. Mark my post down and mark Signal 11's post up for all I care. Just note that they are both, in essence, the same question.
Jon,
How does it make you feel to realize that there are many of us on Slashdot who would literally rather see thousands of posts of the phrase "NATALIE PORTMAN NAKED AND PETRIFIED" repeated endlessly, rather than suffer through another one of your pompous, insipid essays?
LOL! This made me laugh. A LOT.
But if you're going to yell, shout and carry on, please do so correctly. Trolling, when executed properly, can approach the realm of high art. Always reach for the best in yourself, in all that you endeavor to do.
With that said, I must mention that there is no such word as "DEFAEAT", although it comes frighteningly close to "DEFECATE", but I don't think that's what you were reaching for, although I'm sure you could work that in there easily. You're probably so accustomed to scrawling out 'dirty' words that your hand tried to write 'DEFECATE' out of habit while your mind was thinking 'DEFEAT'. Totally understandable.
I think what you were looking to say was "...BUT YOU CAN NEVER DEFEAT US." That makes more sense and has a good activist/rabble-rousing feel to it, which is what I believe you were groping for.
You might want to try writing the word 'DEFEAT' a few thousand times just to get a feel for it 'in your bones'. With your amazing hacking skills you could probably come up with a Perl script to do this in a day or two!
The credits were a nice touch :-). Probably got a bigger laugh out of me than the rest.
Welcome to the slippery slope, folks!
JonKatzDK
Thank you.
if i mean, im not having to go anywhere, anyone else? :tim: ok man now well this is cool, i just want to ask you some more of the questions i have and then maybe we can open it up for questions from the audience.. how does that sound? :john: cumtastic... go ahead :tim: ok well my first last question has to do with the position of cum in the marketplace, do you think cum will lose any of its flavor once its being mass produced in cum factories? :john: well tim i think there is always that danger anytime you try to make money off of anything.. just look at what happened to pop rocks. i was there with John Wayneright and his sister Gail when they first forumlated pop rocks, playing around with baking powder and soda in the old tub out in the back yard there in Suskawatche, Wisconsin. Now we didnt really know that pop-rocks would explode onto the scene in the 80s like they did, you see, we were just messing around, we were just doing it for fun ... John might have a different story though. John was one of those guys who always had a bigger idea in his head than what was going on at the moment. even if it was fun, he was still into thinking long term, what is the future place of pop-rocks or pat benatar or whatever [ed note: john waynright produced 5 pat benatar albums from the period 1975 - 1982, all released under the pseudonym of Patti Smith] so i dont know maybe John had the pop rocks corporation in mind, or maybe just building a little company, ramping it up you know, then selling out to a big distributor.. or maybe selling in to a big distributor so he could take pop rocks where he wanted to go, which is where it has gotten really. i mean its a brand, a big brand :tim: huge brand :john: totally, and so i think john just knew where he wanted to go but me and gail we were just screwing around... and i think you see that with alot of the cum movement today, i think alot of it is just 16 year old kids in their back yard with a magazine or some liquid soap or something trying to make cum for non-commercial reasons, but you know i think there are more than a few John Waynrights out there on the cum scene today. :tim: well john katz, id like to remind everyone this is john katz im talking to and john waynright was a different, is a different person , co-inventor of poprocks with john katz.. but now john katz... id like to ask you to [john katz takes a sip of water] :tim: sorry we ran out of liquid cum :john: heh thats ok [audience laugh] :tim: heh, ok well id like to ask you to comment some more about maybe, the cum IPO and the cum mergers.. i hate to get hung up on the whole corporate aspect but .. :john: no no thats ok man its good to talk about this stuff to get it out in the open, the whole merger thing and cum IPO thing, like i said before i think the heart of it is all with John Waynright style guerillas out there, working hard and building a cum empire that is not imperialist mind you, thats never in johns mind, goes against the nature of cum.. :tim: do you think it coudl happen? :john: what , cum imperialism? :tim: yes,, do you think cum could become hegemonic? :john: well .. thats a very tough question tim, id like to make an analogy if you will with eugenics in the 30s. eugenics was supposed to improve soviety but it ended up bringing about world war ii :tim: id like to remind everyone that eugenics was the effort to implant razor blades into the palms of all hairy chested women :john: right. right. so i think you will see with the cum explosion, or 'cumplosion' if you will, that there will be centrifugal forces within the movement that sort of splatter the hegemonic types out to the wall, i just dont think the cum movement can be sustained to be at the governmental or military level. it can do a big company like the pop rocks company, but not anything like nazi germany or even some people say the american nuclear weapons program:tim: right right thats very interesting you mention the american nuclear wapons program in the same breath as nazi germany :john: well i think it [audience member gets up and starts heckling]" You are a nazi john katz, you are a nazi, youre the nazi" [john ducks under table] [security grabs audience member, beats her, leads her out of the building] :john: whew i guess she missed the cum boat, :tim: well you know when you live in a free society there are bound to be a couple nut cases:john: yeah but i wonder if it isnt the 'freedom' thats the problem but rather the lack of respect for cum inherent in our material waste processing strategies.. :tim: fascinating topic.. maybe we could do a show about it some time? :john: yeah yeah id like that defintely, way cool, ill leave my schedule with you :tim: ok now if you could please id like to probe this question of nazis more.. what and how is the cum related to nazis and american nuclear weapons technology? :john: yes well, the american nuclear weapons industry, where was i, the american nuclear weapons industry was and is a huge behemoth, it involves thousands of disciplines and hundreds of universities and schools around the country, every state has a budge for nuclear weapons development and/or analysis, so you can see that this is just not possible for cum, because once you start studying cum or allocating funds for cum development and cum research you realize that there arent a whole lot of people who stay on it for very long in any type of bureaucratized or hierarchical leadership structure :tim: now why is that, do you think? do you think its because cum is just the nature of anarchy? :john: tim good point, excellent point, you say that anarchy and cum are linked and they are extremely linked. id like to remind you that the ancient beer gatherers of Kallhnastan were pseudo anarchists in that they had a chief but the chief would only be respected if alot of people respected him, that is to say, the chief could only survive as chief so long as she or he was able to get the approval of his or her citizens :tim:a sort of voluntary autocracy or what?:john: well interesting phrase but even autocracy was too strong, theres not much of a coercive force holding these socities together, mostly it is the clan relation ships between matriarchal relatives -- your uncles aka your mothers brothers raised you from birth and taught you discipline and about cum, and your kinship ties to them and your father, who was there for you as well but you didnt inherit stuff from him,... you should see that these societies loved cum so much that they didnt want to hurt it by becoming more strictly organized :tim: cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum :john: cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cuim cu mcum cu mcum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cum cu mcu mcum cum cu mcu mcum cum :tim: well id like to thank you john for coming here and sharing alot of cum with us,, ok audience memebr 1 :audience memmber 1: john, id like to thank you for coming here today, i was in college with you :john: go packers! :audience member 1:heh heh right on, but now im a skins fan :john: well i still like you as a person :audience member 1: heh ok well, thanks for coming, i guess my question is sort of forming in my mind, not sure how to put this.. [pause, john looks on] do you thinkk , or could you comment on, the tendency of cum likers to sort of, in fact, overstate the claims for cum, claiming that cum is nigh well better than vaginal fluid or something like that of this nature, or breast milk, etc.. particularly i am worried about coz i just went to the doctor and :john: well let me jump in here if you will because i think i get what you are trying to get at here :audience member 1; the docto.. :john: yes yes you are saying what about the cum liars? :audience: yes yes , thats ,, yes thats close to my q quesiton, in fact redfining my quesiton :john: ok well i just think you have an excellent point here, the cum lickers and stuff that is a centrifugal force that keeps it from becoming hegemonic, the lying! strange to say but i think it is a strength to never become too big and too powerful. on the other hand this vagina-hating stuff is just not good at all, i dont think the anti-vagina contingent of moderm cum worship is healthy, and not true to historical precedent of the cum movement over the centuries as it has waxed and waned. cum was, and is, the essence of a nice call tool glass of tolerance and i think it will remain that way despite you know, the few people who just come to cum to fight and get hurt and to beat someone else up. now there have even been some radical archaeologists (i dont buy this mind you but some people say it) that 'cum' should include vaginal fluid and they see evidence of this on ancient burial sites where there are ceramic pieces of pots labeled with symbols of vaginal secretion
Whew, really knocked myself out coming up with *that* prediction. Hasn't been anything that obvious since Ellen Degeneres admitted that she was gay.
Quit oppressing me!
By belittling the religious beliefs of others, you are engaging in persecution therefor it is not a complex but a reality. Telling those that have a faith based lifestyle to shut up is a perfect example of the bigotry. Maybe you should take a little lesson from Christianity and have a little compassion for those around you instead of being hateful.
Christian persecution is rampant in our society. Kleibold and Harris did not hunt down Jews, Buddhists or Hindus in their rampage at Columbine, they went after Christians. Ever hear of church burnings? Seen students blasted in a prayer meeting? Hear about the Baptist church in Texas that had a satanist run in and start shooting?
Love Jesus? BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
Ok, two /. articles about the life and works of John Katz in a row. Gawsh, could you please post some more important News for Nerds and Stuff that matters instead of this narcistic self promotion.
and well,, that's that. :tim: id like to thank you all for coming, i'd like to thank john katz for coming out, id like to thanmk everyone for putting up with our technical difficulties and my punning and over punning. :john: and id like to tahnk andover.sex for helping me out with my ticket here and my hotel room and the cum conference today at this fine university.. august institution.. :tim: yes , and id like to thank you the audience and i am extremely sorry :audience memember 2: but i have a great.. err.. :tim: sorry we have to go due to programming restrictions, we want to let the other shows get their chance at the airwaves... thank you this show was produced by Rob Balda, Scammos, Boil, Fester, Sore, Puss, Ooze, and Slimy. Special thanks to Andrea Jackson Sqwertz and Tim Russedl who did our theme music. .. Comicron: the corporation that is building a better corn gene for our future and to Pepco: oil company for the 21st environmentally friendly oil solution century and Beltor: makers of fine environmentally friendly PCBs and IUDs for the whole family to enjoy. Beltor, making making work. Thank you and Goodnight! [cut to commercial] vaginal fluid, vaginal fluid, what you know about vaginal fluid, we got fluid, we got fluid, hi folks come on down to the new fluidmart where we take care of all your vaginal fluid needs, whether your dry, itchy, yeasty, herpes, aids, whatever, we can take care of you down at fluid mart. 69th and south austin, oklahoma city, texas. [jingle] at fluid mart we take care of you, just like mom would.
Keep in mind that if you want to do a perfect Bruce Perens imitation, you'll need to sign your stuff as:
Thanks,
Bruce Perens
(You were forgetting the thanks you unprofessional dumb ass weak piece of dog shit. You give trolling a bad name.)
funny, because you're a dumbass
"John represents to the /. readers the sensitive, left wing, vulnerable
.Keyes is far more eloquent). .
side of geekiness."
How does Jon do this? What do sensitivity and
vulnerability have to do with politics?
"Surprisingly right wing, insensitive, flame-tossers
aren't too fond of him."
Hmmm, it's always remarkable to watch a sensitive
left-wing type (a hunch I'd bet on) spew bigotry. In
any case, I've seen many well thought-out posts (especially
compared to Katz's articles) explaining why
many of us don't like Katz--he's an overly alarmist
ideologue. Katz is the ideological antonym of
Alan Keyes (OK, not quite true. .
In my experience, most people don't like ideologues. .
unless you happen to share the same ideology.
"succinct"?
Why do so many people refer to bandwidth like it's a non-renewable resource? Do you really loose anything (except time I guess, but not much) by downloading the summary of a Katz Article?
Bandwidth is a unit of measure, not an actual quantity.
I would measure my penis, but I value my meter, and don't want to waste it. Whatever....
"Your writing and its effects"
NOT
"Your writing and it's effects" !!
You wouldn't expand this contraction to say: "your writing and it is effects", would you? Sorry, I don't mean to be a grammar nazi, but this one just bugs the hell out of me.
A lot of people who reviewed the book "Geeks" have said things like:
He starts off describing a kid from Idaho, and then goes rambling on and on about Columbine... or, he self-importantly rehashes his overriding point of Columbine again and again in a muddled sort of way
My question to Jon is "What exactly are you trying to say in this book?"
Geeks are misunderstood and hated?
We don't know how to define a "geek"?
Is he trolling for an emotional reaction?
Geeks around the world are planning the next Columbine?
What is it Jon?
What EXACTLY are you trying to say here?
Hmmm, it's always remarkable to watch a sensitive left-wing type (a hunch I'd bet on) spew bigotry.
Umm, what kind of bigotry. It isn't the "left-wing types" that go on about how much they hate blacks, gays, Muslims, Jews, feminists, Asians, poor people, vegetarians, Catholics, etc. etc. etc. and in general anybody who is not white, male, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, and a member of the upper or middle class. What did you find bigoted about her post.
Hello. Guess first thing a comment of support. Though I almost always disagree with your points, I would not feel bad if "most of /. thought I was an idiot". Consider the source, and keep posting. If nothing else, it provokes thought. But, a question...hmmmmm. OK. After reading all of your stuff since first visiting /., I have noticed a tendency to pose "individuals" and "corporations" ad opposites, when if fact, this is a false dualism. Both the individual and the corporation are products of the renaissance, refined during the enlightenment, and compliment each other. Neither is possible, either historically or epistemologically, without the other. Individualism was, in fact, an enabling philosophy for corporatism. After all, only individuals (free-willing, rational, agents) could form such community structures. In a world where enlightenment theory has been (rightfully) discredited as the powerstructure of white euro males, when will you update the philosophical underpinnings of your otherwise good and entirely well-meaning critiques of the POST enlightenment powerstructure. If only to mount a better and more convincing attack/argument, why not avail yourself of CURRENT philosophy/social theory? Tom Dutton
My first question is the real one, but seeing as I'm too late to get moderated up, I thought I'd go on a rant.
Back when I used to read computer mags, there was one columnist in the back that was always accompanied with a cute cartoon poking fun at the computer industry.
That's couldn't be you, right?
Seems those articles were more to the point, or I can skim read faster in a mag, or you are missing a cute cartoon which is all I really looked at.
-ac
Were you a nerd/geek growing up? If so, do you retain the nerd/geek identity today? If not, what was your niche as a youth?
mmm
Any resonable, intelegent person hates Christians. Of course, John Kats is nither resonable nor intelegent. But then again, I've never seen him write anything dirogitory About our favorite branch of fundimentalist insanity
Could you please shut the fuck up and stop writing your boring shit on slashdot?
Could you please die?
Can I put my wang in your mouth? Nastard licked my wang, it was pretty cool.
Thanks for your time. At least reading your articles lets me see just how far the extreme left-wingers would like to take things.
.. why do you think Katz is an "extreme left-winger?" Because he is not religious, and because he routinely has nothing good to say about religion? Sheesh. Let me tell you: I am an extreme left-winger, and I can assure you that Jon Katz is most definitely not. There's still hope for him, though. :)
Uhhh
why is jon such a no talent ass clown???
> There's a lot of undeserved hostility directed toward Jon Katz. *And* a lot of undeserved discussion... Am I the only one who doesn't see *either* why he's "much hated" *or* "much discussed"? What the fsck am I missing? He's just -- this... guy... AFAICS -- more towards the unmemorable mediocrity end of the scale, I suppose... Sometimes he says somethin' mildly interestin', a lot of the times he doesn't -- just like jillions of other writers. But -- to get *really mad*? To be *jumpin' up and down about the guy?*... I'm just obtuse, I guess.
"Surprisingly right wing, insensitive, flame-tossers aren't too fond of him."
What do a person's politics have to do with
sensitivity? Along the same lines, what do a
person's politics have to do with their likelihood
of flaming somone?
Umm, nothing. For whatever reason, the left has seized
the moral highground with regards to bigotry. In
my experience, many lefties are as bigoted and close-minded as *any* other
group of people. They're just bigoted against groups
of people who *aren't* seen by the left (syllogism is almost the)
right word) as needing protection.
Personally, I've concluded the ideological lockstep
of the left is nothing short of amazing. Unfortunately, I think it's probably the
most coercive elements in "left society." It's dangerous
career-wise for those who publically don't toe the party
line. It's a fascinating paradox--a group priding
itself on openness is really very closed.
Obviously you are against relgion, and seem to view it as a form of mind control/censorship You don't have to have had a bad experience as a christian to view it as a bad thing. I don't consider it to be worse than any other superstition, but you seem to think that belief in gods and/or tarot cards to be a natural state, and that people who view such beliefs as bad are somewhow unusual. They aren't; religion evolved as way for primitive minds to explain phenomena they didn't understand; kind of like UFO sightings today. I don't hate sheep or christians (brainwashed or otherwise) and I dont' think your comment is flamebait, but I do thing you've got an exaggerated sense of the importance of your beliefs to the world in general.
Hi Jon,
I noticed in your book excerpt the following:
------------------------------
Geek: Encarta Encyclopedia found no matches for: GEEK
-Microsoft Encarta Encylopedia, 1998 edition
------------------------------
Seeing as how you were looking to define the word "geek" you should have used the Encarta Dictionary:
------------------------------
3. COMPUTING obsessive computer user: somebody who enjoys or takes pride in using computers or other technology, often to what others consider an excessive degree (informal disapproving)
Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.
------------------------------
So...with that in mind, my question:
As a professional writer, do you find it difficult not knowing when to use a dictionary as opposed to an encyclopedia?
Thanks.
Katz posts a lot. Here's his user info:
I guess I agree with some of the sentiment behind this statement (pedantically: I'll point out that religion offers some way-out ceremonies and in the past has contributed some nifty architecture. Less pedantically, I'll point out that some Christians often go out and actually do good rather than give lip-service to their professed ideals; somewhere I got the idea that Martin Luther King Jr. was a Christian, if you needed an example), but I'd like to expand on it. This also meshes a bit with things other responses to Simeon2000's interesting set of questions. I think Katz is less than careful in railing against "Christians" as if there's only one viewpoint there that all self-proclaimed Christians share -- there clearly isn't (ref. the Reformation, and Counter Reformation; Southern Baptists and "other" Baptists have also experienced a less radical schism quite recently). The "problem" groups are fundamentalists and evangelicals who aren't particularly responsive to reason; but I think a reasonable person *can* believe in God and still be *reasonable*, although my own opinion is that there is overwhelming evidence that anything remotely approaching traditional Judeo-Christian characterisations of such a being does not exist (yeah, I know, it certainly looks like a contradiction; I suppose that there's more to being "reasonable" than going solely on the evidence). With that said:
Hey, if it offers people hope, even if it's false, then what the heck, assuming they're not going to use it as a pretext to impose it on others. If some people are so constituted that they need to see the universe as having some sort of vaguely antrhopomorphic controlling authority (or indeed, even a non-anthropomorphic one that has anything like an interest in seeing things turn out one way rather than another, then I say let 'em. The problem with various evangelicals and fundamentalists is that their opinions cannot be justified to anyone with more than a modicum of reasonableness; granted, those groups speak loudest and get the most press. But I have known Christians who don't use their "faith" as a pretext for restricting the freedoms of other people to whom they certainly cannot justify their religion.
The "bad" Christians are those like Freddy Phelps (of godhatesfags.com fame), the guy who seems to ignore just about all of the New Testament except for some of Paul's more inflammatory comments re: homosexuals. The picture these people give of "Christian" love seems totally out of whack with, oh, say, Jesus' other teachings, not to mention the general thrust of modern liberal democracies and their "do what thou wilt as long as it doesn't affect others' pursuit of the same" thing (yeah, it's just a general thrust, not an inviolable and certainly not unviolated principle).
To the extent that Katz means people like Phelps and his gang of weirdos who are unnaturally obsessed with what goes on between consenting adults, and those who think it's reasonable to post the Ten Commandments in schools to prevent violence (-- DO NOT ask me how the hell that's supposed to work ... I really don't know what having no other gods before Him that does not exist is supposed to do, nor do I get how keeping the Sabbath holy is supposed to be involved -- most of the rest are more or less common-sensical moral beliefs without any essential connection to organized religion), I'm with him. But those aren't the only Christians out there.
They TRICKED you into reading something about Jon Katz. You poor, poor, pitiful thing. Damn CmdrTaco. Damn Roblimo. YOU GUYS CREATED THIS HELL FOR KEVLAR.
You FORCED him to read this story. You FORCED him to click on "Read More" then FORCED him to hit "Reply to This". How DARE you damn slashdot folk force KEVLAR to read stuff against his will?
EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL. You FUCKING BASTARDS! LOOK WHAT YOU DID TO HIM!!!!
Capitalism is like a shit sandwich, the more bread you got, the less shit you gotta eat.
Better yet, did you graduate from high school?
[I'm] A bisexual geek girl
mmmmmm....
Yes, they do. However, the "ban" only lasts one day, I think... though I wouldn't swear to it.
THANK YOU FOR PUTTING IT SO WELL.....KATZ, WERE YOU AN ENGLISH MAJOR?
Boxers or Briefs?
Happy trollday to everyone on Trolldot, except for this shapeless mindless creature calling itself jonkatz.
One of the petrified trolls from LotR
Religion is most definitely everything which is stated in this comment. Religion is also a form of mind control and is meant to keep people sane. If you're interested in seeing proof that religious practices are mind control, then pick up a book about NLP and hypnotism. Once you've read a few of them and are familiar with the inductions, go to a church and watch the way the priest speaks to the congregation. You'll be surprised how much NLP is used throughout those presentations. Think I'm wrong? Try it.
OK, I'll bite.
Why do you type in l999 and the like (that's the letter L, then 999) rather than 1999 (as in the number ONE and 999...)? Can't tell the two apart on your keyboard?
Natalie Portman you say?
Naked and petrified
Trolling for BAMF
Natalie Portman you say?
Naked and petrified
Trolling for BAMF
I love it when people come out with this, it screeeeams, "I Can't Argue Except By Intimidation".
That's all fine and dandy... but what about her identical twin sister, Matalie?
Jon, have you considered the career opportunities available in the field of plumbing? (You can call it domestic hydrological routing if it makes you feel better.)
Oh my! I wrote something critical of Slashdot... I wonder how low this one will be "rated" by the censors?
Moderate this up!! (Note: moderators, moderate the post I'm replying to up, not the post you are reading now. Idiot)
He often posts in the comments, take a look at his user info sometime.
"As a bisexual geek girl"
:)
So, like, do you have a webcam?
&sign($AC[0]);
Every time you make an argument, or try to defend it (in email, since you never post in comments), you always defend yourself by saying that you've gotten "hundreds" or "thousands" of emails backing your position, even though these "hundreds" of emails always seem to say the direct opposite thing that the hundreds of slashdot posters are saying. The numbers seem to be rather random, sometimes you saying you got "hundreds" of emails in the column, but then replying that you got "thousands" of emails in an email response. Except in cases like the Hellmouth series, you never seem to post ANY of these emails at all.
Are you faking these emails, or just inflating the numbers arbitrarily?
If not, and you DO get these massive amounts of emails, don't you think it seems like you're changing your position according to how many people have emailed you? it seems unlikely that you ALWAYS have a majority of emails that back you
This question's for Rob: I've got Katz in my "Exclude" preferences on the "Customize Slashdot's Display" page. I'd be interested in knowing what proportion of people who have bothered to set preferences screen out Katz. I'd bet it's a bunch.
Is your daughter single?
This is her truck
This truck is her's.
I must concur.
I have had the "no JonKatz stories" button checked on since time immemorial. This is because I don't like JonKatz. But rather than producing lots of pointless flames, I simply did the equivalent of killfiling JonKatz.
This should be a pretty clear indicator that I don't care about JonKatz. I don't want to read JonKatz. I don't even want to know that JonKatz still exists. I wish JonKatz all the best in continuing the pointless gasbag rants, but I also wish to ignore JonKatz completely.
Having JonKatz-related material snuck in the back door by having it posted by other people does not amuse me. No JonKatz means no fucking JonKatz, ever. Period. End of story. There is already too little useful stuff on Slashdot these days without it being turned into the Cult Of JonKatz. If you absolutely insist on posting JonKatz-related stories, and you are not JonKatz, at least put them in a "JonKatz" section so those of us who don't give a rat's ass about JonKatz can ignore that too.
That is all. Thank you for your time.
Oh please. I'm getting sick of this. Just about every week there's some slashdot story that pretty much consists entirely of "duh huh.. girls.. I like girls.. I want a geek girl too.. but there aren't any.. let me get girls"
It gets tiring, especially AS a person of the female persuasion myself. You're not going to find us under your bed and in your closet. Maybe you can't find us because YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
In fact, all of it is scathing sarcasm..
:)
No shit?
Is there something more behind the name alteration? I don't call myself Mikel or Mykle.
Michael
It's because his writing is so verbose, unstructured and illogical. To a primarily technical audience, these things are as painful as cold grits down the pants.
I propose that, only for the purposes of this discussion, questions of the form "Dear JonKatz, how far into your rectum can you fit a three-ring binder containing all the dreck you've ever written, sideways?" be moderated as "Interesting" and "Insightful".
hehe... LOL, make this +5 funny or insightful or both. -AC, wipplebottom, south fooglewop.
Why are you, Jon Katz, always a character in your stories / books / columns.
I suspect that this is a key stylistic issue that angers many readers. Please don't simply cite "style" as the reason. To be honest, you often seem more fascinated with yourself than with what you write about. If this is the case, perhaps you should title each piece with "John Katz on John Katz and (fill in the blank)". If this is not the case, then give us some insight so that perhaps I can stop cringing every time I read one of your pieces.
Every community needs it's stupid crow.
The job of the stupid crow is to watch for anything wrong, anything just slightly deceptively different. Then the crow must caw!
Caw caw! Warning! Imposter!
etc. etc.
Don't look now, but I think you just mis-spelled the word Libbertardian.
heh heh heh hee hee hee ha!
Hold on! You're not Uruk, either.
The Uruk I know of always uses incorrect punctuation.
Squawk! Squawk! Alarum! Alarum!
Imposter in our midst!
It seems you are being critical of Jon Katz for actually writing a piece rather than just posting a link to someone elses writing. Imagine that, an original thought on /. Of course I know all too well that this is the last place original thoughts or actual discussion takes place. Anyone that does not echo the standard line gets flamed and is called a troll. Well I welcome Jon's articles, it's called a fresh point of view. Although I might not agree with everything he writes, anything he writes is far more informative than the average /. comment.
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
Didn't you know?
Journalism School is for people who flunk out of Calculus I.
Don't you find it ironic when nitpicking grammarians make mistakes of their own?
In your original post you wrote ``if I fancied myself a serious author (as you obviously do), I'd be pretty distressed''. The comma after the closing parenthesis is redundant; the parenthesis acts like a comma anyway. Atrocious punctuation! Ha ha ah a a haha!
I read everything I can by Jon Katz. He is one of the few people who actually write for /. Most contributers simply post a link to anothers work. Anyway, my question is "Why do you continue to write for /. when everything you write is flamed to ashes by the readers? I know the average /. poster has the IQ of hot grits but don't you get sick of it?"
PEOPLE WITH REAL WORK TO DO SHOULD NOT READ KATZ... People who want to rant-crack jokes-understand stifling Geek thinking-- should get big maws of helpins of Katz... It's good for the soul.
No offense to Amphigory, but this question has already been asked above and is quickly turning into a standard Christian vs. atheist slugfest. Please moderate this down so that our poor Slashdot is not subjected to two of these silly spectacles; you can be assured that Katz will get the question (whether or not he answers it remains to be seen.)
The S-N ratio will thank you!
Remember the hellmouth?
Yes, I remember the whole Columbine hysteria thing.
I remember buying into the whole "those poor abused geeks" myth for awhile. Then I started thinking about it more, and read a number of other articles about the whole thing.
Now I think that Katz was leading-the-hype-edge on the whole issue. Those two killers were alienated and cynical. A symptom of our nihilistic "moral relativistic" modern culture.
And Katz is one of their apologists.
Yeah, you sure don't want to try to start a discussion on this site. I've tried several times to get someone to explain the hoopla over DVD to me (Finally Mandrake came to the rescue) but I just got flamed and called names. Anyway, slashdot is a great place for news (and Jon's articles) but forget informed discussion. If you don't agree with the most radical opinions you will be flamed or moderated to nothing, if you just agree that everything should be open source and nothing should be patented or copyrighted you will be a hero and moderated to heaven!!
There are lots of people in this contry named Jon, and not John. Its a common name. Idiot.
I just have one question for Mr. Katz: What do you think about:
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I'd really like to know your feelings on the subject.
Have we managed to piss you off yet? If not, we better work harder at:
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I'd really like to know your feelings on the subject.
Do you like the:
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I'd really like to know your feelings on the subject.
Jon: What are your views on smeared raisens?
Have you been watching the:
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I'd really like to know your feelings on the subject.
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I'd really like to know your feelings on the subject.
Have you been enjoying the:
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I'd really like to know your feelings on the subject.
....SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY??
I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER SEEN SUCH A CRYBABY ON SLASHDOT BEFORE!
One word: Microsoft. And people claim Katz isn't a geek?
Your writing often seems to characterize the people holding positions you're writing about (against) in the most extreme manner possible. To put it another way, you seem unwilling to cede that "the other side" has arguable points or that not everyone who holds a contrary position is a flamin' hard-core extremist whatever. Do you do this unconsciously, to bolster your own arguments, to provoke strong reactions, or what?
And one comment: first, if you don't represent all the geek boys, where are the writers that do? Surely these chumps could take a few minutes away from Quake or www.portmangrits.com to represent themselves. Maybe they're too lazy and incoherent.
Here's the question:
Given your interest in geek boys and technology, corporations, privacy, etc., who do you think is your main audience, these same techno-goons, or the society that rejected them? Who benefits most from your work, and why?
Will you go away?
first post. bitch.
Who the fuck is Jon Katz ? Why does everyone hates him, what has he done ?
Why is it that you have a stark inability to reply to the many (quality) refutations that are posted in comments and directed towards your articles? That is, why do you utilize Slashdot as a strictly one way conduit of information, shoving your articles down our throats and not defending yor arguments?
You say that "to remain religious, you have to refrain from applying this reason to matters of faith..."
Faith to me means accepting that my ability to reason is small and limited, and pales beside the majesty of God's creation. Thus it is perfectly "reasonable" to accept large parts of it on faith.
Not long ago, we thought the world was flat. How silly of us! Science showed us the world was round. One mystery solved. But developments in astronomy simply led to new mysteries about the universe like black holes. Just as Newtonian Physics seemed ready to answer every question, out popped quantum theory, and with it great questions that remain unanswered.
All science is doing is pushing the boundary of mystery farther away from daily life. This makes it easier to fool ourselves into thinking that we have really understand the big picture that much better than our ancestors.
To wit, does anyone out there really think that we today understand "love" any better than the ancient Greeks? Okay, so we know that testosterone and estrogen stimulate the brain in ways that draw the sexes towards each other, and that this makes us want to reproduce, which helps the species survive, but why does a certain man love a certain woman? Quite frankly, this matters a lot more to my life than quantum physics does, and 2000 years of scientific progress has done nothing to answer it.
The Bible, OTOH, tells me that the love we feel for people is meant to help us understand the love God feels towards His children, and to teach us how to love Him in return. YMMV, but this is quite an interesting and insightful concept. Like many others, I am often unsure of my faith, and there are times when Reason appears more sensible. But Faith is often the only answer to the questions that remain, after you have finished peeling back the layers of material things which cloud our view.
-cwk.
I have to say, that was impressive.
>more towards the unmemorable mediocrity end of the scale, I suppose
middle of the scale, you mean?
Truly great.
"I think Jon does a great job as a writer." Yes, you are alone. :-) "Jon is a journalist and writer." Except that he's a mediocre writer, and a poor journalist. Aside from that, you're right.
Boxers, or briefs?
I'm sorry to do this, and it's not out of personal malice, but I just have to say *something*. I'm generally a non-theist. But what I'm about to say is a generally shared opinion by most believers. Mormonism is a cult.
A contradictory cult. A cult that has gone back on it's own Word quite a few times. I'll even rattle off the more well known instances of this:
1. The Mormon Bible has stayed pure and hasn't changed. After all, it was written by someone who didn't understand a word of it as it went down. Yet one can a few hundred non-grammatical changes to it from it's original publishing to the modern version.
2. Black people. 100 years ago, Mormons say 'Blacks are bad, mmmkay?' Enter this century, postwar. Enter Luther King Jr. Exit Luther King Jr, as he leaves behind a new way of thinking about racial differneces. Enter new Church policy.
3. Polygamy. Similar story to #2. It wasn't socially acceptable, and it fell out of practice.
More strange is that the underlying beliefs in #'s 2 and 3 are directly contradictory to the New Testament. Hard to call yourself a subset of the Christian faith if you blatantly go against them.
Anyway, I realize I'm hideously offtopic. I apologize for this, I just find it hard to stand idle when a Mormon starts talking. I can't help but consider it a hipocritical faith.
My question: /.?
Jon, what, if anything, do you hope to accomplish with your contributions to
I imagine we readers all have our own answers to this question.
I usually find Jon's articles thought provoking. I think it's good we technical people are reminded that the technology we deal with has real social implications. I don't need to agree with Jon to appreciate his contributions. From the comments I've been reading, it would appear I'm in the minority. That Jon's essays evoke strong reaction indicates the chords he strikes need striking. If they were as inane as some readers seem to believe, no intelligent reader would bother discussing them.
Of course as much as I would like Christianity to be grouped with other cults and mythology, this is simply not the case.
You only have as far as the politicians to see what views are needed to get the average religious vote...Christian mythology is unfortunatly believed as truth by many people.
>1. why am I an atheist?
:)
I claim to be an agnostic, as I do not if we evolved out of self mutating cells, came from monkeys, or were brought here by aliens. But the myth the Yaveh mountain god and his son of man is one of the least believable scenarios to me.
>2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
I know more about the Bible than about Atheism.
I'm an agnostic, so I don't know
>3. how do I know there isn't a God?
See Answer to 1.
>4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
My parents are Baptists. When I was young, 100% came from them and church. Now, they probably pray for me. I don't really care what they believe, as long as they live happy.
>why do you want to be right so badly?
What I really wish is that the US(press, politicians and people) could really accept agnostics and atheists as ordinary people that are no less radical than christians.(at least).
Until then, Non-christian beliefs are a minority belief in the US, and therefore will speak up extra loud when given chance.(Especially is a place such as Slashdot with similar thinking people).
I think you meant "oligarchy", not "oligarthy"...
Your work on Debian has already driven people to the brink of the middle ages. Might as well have Katz finish the job.
From now on, I am not going to buy anything from a corporation whose banner ad is associated with a Katz article.
Hit em where it hurts, in the wallet.
dmg
HOW THE FUCK DID THIS GET MODERATED UP?
fuk u
First off, on Propaganda: Take a walk through your average Students Union building on Campus. You will see many religious displays there.. The Gideon's giving away Bibles, or people trying to display God's love for everyone to share in. Then go home and turn on the TV. Wait calmly for an LDS commercial to come on. Love those mormons.
:-)
On your point towards same-blood marriages, you can hardly draw a parallel. A same sex couple isn't about to go producing genetically defective children. Or children at all for that matter. Incest should be outlawed purely for reasons of preventing inbreeding and the genetic defection that comes with it. I have to say your point started to fall apart after that, you expressed a *moral* view (which can't be assumed by ANYONE to be universal).
As for your 12 wives statement, ignoring the 3 direct relatives, there's once again only a *moral* boundary stopping you from doing that. I can see the gov't wanting to prevent situations like that for tax reasons over reasons of morality.
Anyway, I have to agree with you on your point of absolute morality. Anyone who blindly takes a stand on *any* issue needs to be beated with a burlap sack full of turnips. I can't agree with most of your arguments to prove your point though, most of them were moral.
I'll finish by paraphrasing a Dilbert comic. Dogberts new quest is to beat anyone over the head with a cardboard tube if they have an opinion with no fact behind it. Dilbert says "That would be everyone in the world but you and me." Dogbert's reply: "Lean over here."
Firstly, if a guy and his pet dog want to go have fun in a closet somewhere, there's not a lot anyone's going to do to stop it. But to allow it to have the legal definition of a marriage and therefore all the little bits that go with it.. Well that makes no sense. It shouldn't be a legal marriage because it doesn't even come close to the definition of a marriage.
As for the old (tired) line that homosexuality is not in nature.. There are species of monkeys that do that kind of thing. Even if you try to draw a line and say "well that's just monkeys," God still put them on this Earth and made them that way. There's nothing you can say that will tell me that homosexuality is against nature. A favorite quote I came across once on being Gay (paraphrased for reasons of laziness): Noone would ever 'choose' to be Gay and spend their life tormented and hated by most of the world.
On to morality. Everyone has different morals. A person could say "taking a life, no matter what, is wrong." Someone could say "taking the life of a murderer is justice." And what of War? There is no one black and white moral issue in this world. For every moral argument, there's a "what if" that could potentially justify something.
To every person, there is a right and a wrong. I never accused you of having blind morals, I simply said that choices like morality are for everyone to figure out on their own. Too many people follow blindly. And that as morals differ, they can't be used to argue. My morals are not yours. Moral authority is a concept derived from religion.
BRAVO!
BRAVO!
YOU ARE MY HERO! never before have i seen such a story. it is your duty to archive it and pass it along. perhaps it shall, someday, become a much hunted for t-phile.
My question to you, Mr. Katz, is why do you attempt to use imitation to fit into a class of people whose very nature is to despise and ostracize fakers? Respect in our subculture is earned through technical prowess and intelligence (which is conveyed in the online medium through writing -- good writing). Respect is one attribute you seem to be severely lacking. Rather than trying to mimic our speech and attitudes, why don't you try adopting our values before preaching? Become engrossed in your computer, or your writing, or something, and learn to do it well, and you will be a geek and will have earned the respect of the community. Until then, the term "gasbag" above the description of this article will certainly apply.
I guess I fail to understand why so many people hate you. Can you please elaborate? Is it simply because you do editorials? Is it because of your political point of view? Because you write on topics that people don't care about? What?
Go to www.infidels.org and read up on how stupid ALL religions are.
By definition, a religion is based on faith. What is faith? Unquestioning belief. Unquestioning belief is the anathema of the scientific method. What has science done for you? Well, you're writing on a computer, aren't you?
All religion does is offer a false hope to people. The world would be a better place if people would realise this is it, this is the only chance you get, there is no hope but that future which we make for ourselves. So don't fuck it up.
Even if, by some wierd twist of fate, christian doctrine was true, really, what did your wonderful god do? Denied us all immortality (there were two trees, remember?). Denied us equality with him. Git. I'd side with Lucifer, prince of the morning, named for the light, against the christian god, if either of them actually existed.
Slashdot is not the only place where Christians are being actively oppressed. Here are plenty of other examples of how we are being attacked, slandered, and being denied the ability to run people's lives.
Jon, I was reading a post on Usenet recently defending the quality of Usenet in general. Long story short, the poster tried to make his point by saying: "I can still buy a gun on Usenet. I can't buy one from the classifieds in The Washington Post because the editors there censor the ads." What do you think about this? Is this a good thing about Usenet, or a bad thing?
a) Who do you suppose the main culprits are? Why do you suppose that certain forums (like /.) can be somewhat civil one day and full of trolls and flamers the next? Is it simply a matter of certain people skipping 4th grade classes for the day, the flood of newbies, a popularity thing or just the nature of the beast? This leads into the second part of my question...
b) Do you foresee a circumstance where the net will ever be a civil place without comprimising anonymity and free speach? Or is every net medium which tries to provide these things doomed to go the way of Usenet?
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I'm afraid Jon _is_ in fact a Bad Writer, by almost any standard. He spells OK, though that might be Microsoft Word...
So, your question is misguided. Instead, one might ask how often Katz has to name-drop or remind people of the privilege and connections he has. What I would be very interested to know is, at what point did the Slashdot crew know Katz was 'in a previous life' (gah! Can we say pretentious?) the Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News? I know that until today I thought he was just a Wired hack writer who also had written for Rolling Stone, but I'll tell you, the Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News _does_ _not_ have trouble arranging interviews. Think about it a second. It's all about networking, who you know. Would _you_ be rude to a 'web journalist' whom you know actually has a history of being Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News? Who might he be rubbing elbows with, in his comfortable 'faux drop-out' stance? I flat guarantee that anybody who _does_ know would fall all over themselves to curry favor with him: and perhaps this is what happened to the Slashdot folks.
So, in a way, though Jon's self-promotion has little to do with the story, it has everything to do with his presentation of the story and spoke volumes to anyone who was clued enough to think about it- unfortunately, nobody was. It's not that Jon _self-promotes_ and curries favor with these big media companies- if you or I tried to do that we'd fail laughably, if Rob Malda with all his new wealth tried to do it they'd laugh in his face. Jon attempted to con us into thinking he was some wandering outsider journalist, and it must have been fun and gratifying. The power centers of big media remember, and they lost no time in asking the former Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News what he thought about the merger.
I, too, thought Jon was mad for self-promotion, but in fact he's only acting out of habit and being unwilling to give up the power and privilege he apparently walked away from. He doesn't need Slashdot's help to get on the talk show circuit, to sell his book to Amazon. He didn't even need to fight to get on the Rolling Stone masthead, or on Wired. His past was his ticket, the key to open all those doors normally open only to talent and hard work.
That gives me the idea for the one question I'll formally ask...
How did you get to be Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News?
The man was Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News. With that on your resume you don't _need_ a day job ;)
Not bloody likely for a former Executive Producer of the CBS Morning News...
Posted by NJViking:
"Quite enough senseless words are spoken
by the man never silent.
A quick tongue, unless its owner keeps watch on it,
often talks itself into trouble."
-- Odin, Havamal, Stanza 29.
Carolyne Larrington translation
Posted by NJViking:
/.
Interesting. A religion topic on
First of all, you cannot generalize about religion. Everyone, especially the subset of geeks/nerds will have differing religious views.
Myself, I am tru to the Norse Gods/Goddesses (Aesir/Vanir) and I am a geek!
If you are true to yourself and true to your God(s), doctrine and dogma are not needed.
It's best to be non-judgemental. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
My 2cents.
NJV
Yeah, and baldness is just another hair color.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I think you misunderstood me. (Easy to do, now that I re-read my statement and see that it has two ambiguous interpetations.) The problem was my pronouns had ambiguous antecedents. When I said, "The assertion that there is no god is such a statement", the "such" was not referring to the "they are in fact false" part, as you seemed to believe. I was referring to the "not possible to disprove" part.
You can't search the whole universe to prove that something is nonexistant. The only things you can prove are nonexistant are:
In your quoting of me you forgot to embolden the very important phrase "even if".
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
> That doesn't stand up. [..snip..] If you have no hair, you have no hair color
That was my point precisely. Saying not(X) = X is obviously trivially false. Saying "no belief = belief" is nothing more than an attempt to legitimize your belief by pretending everyone else is in the same boat too, when in fact they aren't.
Yes, everyone - myself included - has beliefs about lots of things. But in my case, God ain't one of 'em. Why is it so hard to accept that not everyone has a need to believe in the supernatural?
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Atheism is the *LACK* of the belief that Gods do exist, rather than requiring the active belief that they don't. The difference is subtle, but highly relevant.
To say that both atheists and theists have a burden of proof is to assume that the neutral "maybe" position of agnosticism is the default starting point. But this is unfair for two reasons:
1 - There are certain types of statements that are not possible to disprove even if they are in fact false. The assertion that there is a god is such a statement. The logical term for it is a "non falsifiable assertion". If a claim is not falsifiable, then the burden of proof must lay with the claimant, because it would be impossible for the skeptic to prove himself even if he were correct. (It is often impossible to prove that you *didn't* do something, or that something *didn't* happen, or that something *doesn't* exist. Sure it's impossible to disprove god, but it's also impossible to disprove a number of other things, even things we don't believe in, like leprechauns, the tooth fairy, and so on.)
2 - We never give the benefit of the doubt to "maybe" cases in any other question, why should this be any diferent? We don't go around believing in the tooth fairy and in leprechauns, even though they are just as undisprovable as is god.
Thus, most athiests argue that atheism is a reasonable default starting hypothesis rather than something needing proof. All that is needed is to counter alleged proofs of god rather than come up with a disproof of our own. (because such a disproof isn't possible even if we are correct).
Now, keep in mind that I'm not asking that you agree with the above stance, only that you recognize that it is what most atheists think, and your argument is aimed at a strawman position very few atheists actually hold. You can't honestly counter the atheist position if you don't even know what it actually is.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I'm not a Christian, and I can tell you that the bigotry that I experience is alive and well.
:)
Therefore, the US is still predominately Christian.
For good examples of how the US is still Christian, try to explain to random people how it is that you can not believe in "God", and still not worship "the Devil". I'm not kidding, it isn't always that easy.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
First, was there ever a real JonKatz?
:)
If so, when did you kill the real JonKatz and replace him with a JonKatz generator?
Can we expect a source release of the real JonKatz generator, or are you keeping it under wraps so people don't bug you about it, like they do with the SlashCode?
Really, we're curious. Do you really expect us to believe you'd use a title like "Dying Babies and The Myth of American Freedom" if you just wanted to talk about Censorship?
For those who don't know, the JonKatz generator takes buzz-words and input on a popular topic, and mangles it with the (patented?) unique verbose Katzian style. I can imitate it, but never perfect it, as the real JonKatz generator looks coherent, but at a second glance never is.
Simple example--this isn't as good as the real JonKatz Generator, since I'm using its output as input, and JWZ's dadadodo as the generator. But it isn't too far off. The incoherency is similar, but the grammar and structure need some work.
Free music sites, order vitamins and Slashdot. Free browsing, habits. But they can keep our information from copying a world where this information on citizens, the right to track their habits.
In the FDIC, all the distance between corporate and increasingly dependent on and portals and intellectual property can't really be more than AOL and intellectual property can't really be privacy. According to attempt this, the Web sites, order vitamins and writing cool software buy, books check out, of our privacy is a law enforcement agency or preventing Court in and civil libertarians would explode in and other businesses. If you enter, what data marketing and the Net and unintended, however, as we get our political systems already seems remote. All of privacy they can even trace our government has have acquired or invoke the Net and unintended, however, as the minute they fail to Site to Site to the data is increasingly dependent on the largest Financial Institution Web.
Really, I think the JonKatz generator is an excellent program. But the Slashdot community deserves to know the truth about it.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Either way, it's -not- the Real Bruce, and it -is- one of the few people in the world I'd love to see getting a job cleaning Three Mile Island. From the inside of the reactor core. With a toothbrush. With only the hot grits they seem to love for company and protection.
I'm sure they're glowing with anticipation. Or does that come afterwards? :)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Libertarianism means a lot of different things to different people. Usually, it is meant purely in the context of a hypothetical "Big Government". However, recently, events have shown that duly elected Governments around the world can be dictated to and ordered around by "Big Corporations", who are accountable to no-one, including the market place.
Can you pin down, exactly, what your interpretation of Libertarianism is, and how it handles the whole power question, where you have Corporate Law, rather than Government Law?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
There's a good reason Christians in tech are a minority. There's also a good reason techies tend to look down on Christianity.
Christianity is based on a concept called "faith", which is defined in one or another of St. Paul's books as belief without reason. One must have faith that a being variously called "God", "Lord", "Jehovah", and other things actually exists, that he behaves in ways described in the Bible, and that the whole sin-redemption cycle actually works as advertised. All this one must take on faith, as there's no other reasonable way to arrive at it. (If there were, there'd be no need for a Bible to exist.)
Faith is a really awful way to deal with technology. All the faith in the world, applied to believing that your program works, isn't going to stop it from core dumping when you forget to initialise some pointer. All the praying in the world isn't going to resurrect your TCP link when you hose the routing table. The only thing that solves problems is plain old rational thought and engineering. The people who can't master these skills don't stay in high tech, because solving problems is most of what a techie does.
So if you're a practicing Christian, the deck is stacked against you. To master technology, you have to train yourself to reason effectively; to remain religious, you have to refrain from applying this reason to matters of faith. You have to build a firewall in your head beyond which untrammeled inquiry cannot pass.
This is a hard trick to master. Some people solve it by shrinking the firewall to the point that it has almost no effect on their real life. Others undergo a sort of multiple-personality split, where they think one way at work and a different way in church. And then there are those of us who take a good, hard look at faith, decide it's not getting us anywhere, and dump it.
Faith is never an asset in geekdom. It's kind of like backpacking in tennis shoes. You can get there, but it hurts more and takes longer, and the other backpackers are going to shoot you funny looks when you refuse to buy a good pair of hiking boots instead.
-Mars
You're describing something that's commonly explained by splitting atheism into "strong" and "weak" varieties.
So-called "strong atheism" describes people who are certain there are no gods. "Weak atheism" describes people who have no belief in gods.
Some people, including apparently you, call the latter category "agnostic". This is incorrect according to the original meaning of agnostic, which is something like "a person who believes it is impossible to know whether there are gods". A "weak atheist" might believe it is possible to know whether there are gods, and simply have never seen any evidence to suggest them.
Time changes the meaning of words, however, and the original sense of "agnostic" has nearly been lost.
I just figure that people choose the labels that they think best describe them, and whether they want to be called "atheist", "agnostic", or "sofulistepedarian", that's up to them.
-Mars
p.s. I just made up the word "sofulistepedarian", but if you think it describes you, please feel free to use it.
I have two questions. First, do you agree with me in seeing your posts as popular digests of our culture, intended for a lay audience? Second, if you do agree, why do you persist in using Slashdot as a forum?
I will be very interested to read your answers. Perhaps the basis of your friction with Slashdot is, after all, just a confusion about audiences. Thanks for having the courage to offer an interview. I hope it leads to some kind of dialog that clears up the Katz-Slashdot controversy.
Vovida, OS VoIP
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
You obviously have a great deal of thoughts about what the Internet is, will be, and should be, many of which I have never agreed with. However, one thing I am impressed by is how you continually use the evolving Slashdot forum as both fodder and testing ground for your ideas. Are you representative of an emerging crop of journalists that will rely just as much on discussion and interpretation as on actual topical reports or are you just filling a niche here on Slashdot?
--
-- Slashdot sucks.
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-- Slashdot sucks.
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-- Slashdot sucks.
Christ, when he came, spent most of his time hanging around the people that no one else wanted to hang around with. And you know what else? Jesus Loves Geeks.
Some of the church's leaders are going to have some serious answering to do when Jesus returns.
--
-- Slashdot sucks.
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-- Slashdot sucks.
I've got Katz turned off too because I don't want to even think about beautiful wonderful /. having anything to do with this loser. Can you please add a JonKatz topic in the topic section so I/we can filter that too?
For me, and undoubtedly others, Katz Free is the way to be. If you're gonna have stories _about_ him, please let us filter those too!
thanks
Thanks for the reply. If more people feel the same please post to let your fellow Slashdotters know how you feel. Thanks.
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
I think Jon does a great job as a writer.
My question: What motivates and interests you so much that you have such a great passion to write about geeks, nerds, techies, hackers, etc.?
I actually like Jon Katz' writing's. Am I the only one? Sure he may not be a "techie," but this is not a prerequisite for writing for a site like Slashdot. Jon is a journalist and writer. He's never made any claim to the contrary. As a matter of fact, he espouses the fact that he's not. He gives a certain insight into technical issues that many more techno-savy readers may not consider. Certainly, his writings are provocative and he often plays the "Devil's Advocate." This is what good writers do. The provoke the rest of us to thought. Perhaps in ways we had not previously considered. I think Jon catches an enormous amount of flack for being a good writer. Just because his views differ from yours or he may be taking a different approach toward a subject does not necessarily make them wrong.
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
That's a pretty lame question, signal11. He does it because posting here => publicity => sales => money.
Why are you pretending you don't know that?
Regards, Ralph.
Why do I never have moderator points when I need them most?
(Look here if this message is not yet moderated to visibility.)
Regards, Ralph.
(Why does the Parent link still not work for below-threshold postings?)
Regards, Ralph.
What could be as nice as seeing the Katz-filterer numbers (and percentages) would be to see the average karma value of the Katz-filterers compared to the slashdot "community" as a whole.
If there wasn't a positive relationship between good slashdot-citizenship and Katz-filtering I'd be moderately surprised.
Regards, Ralph.
Please moderators, do check out this message - it's polite, intelligent and very relevant. I'd like to see Katz answer it. Don't let it stagnate at Score:1.
Note: I am not the author and have no connections with the author. I am just feeling very guilty for having apparently blighted the chances of a very fine question. (Probably made it even worse now, but what can I do?)
Regards, Ralph.
I rarely read the Katz tripe, but did he ever actually get Linux installed? Last I remember, he came up with some unbelievable story about his computer getting torn apart in shipment and then being unable to get it to boot or something like that, then promptly ended the "Linux" series of articles without explanation.
Your KatzFilter didn't catch this article because it is properly catagorized as an interview, it just happens that the interviewee is Katz.
Asking slashdot to give you the means to filter any news which mentions Katz is asking for too much. That's your job. Be your own filter. If you don't like that answer, you could always filter roblimo because he subjected you to this story.
Mr Katz,
You have experienced the full fury of slashdot readership rage, and yet continue to post thoughtful and expressive articles. We are moving into a world of more online forums, so how do you feel these dialogs ought to be handled in this environment? How do you think they *will* be handled?
I've never read anything so funny in my 14 years here at slashdot.
-------------------------
Are you prepared for the 15th anniversary of slashdot?
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
Katz writing for slashdot is different: it's someone writing long-winded, half-considered (if that much) editorials on subjects he doesn't really understand--and has no interest in understanding. And he's doing it for a relatively respectable website.
I second that.
For some time now, I have enjoyed the benefits of being able to filter out articles posted by JonKatz. I would have hoped this would help me to avoid hearing from or about him ever again. However, it appears that slashdot has decided to plug JonKatz's latest work and promote an interview of him. I would prefer to have this filtered out as well. The feasible alternative would be to put stories like this under a JonKatz category and allow people to opt out of that as well.
--
P.J. Hinton
-- P.J.
I have Katz articles turned off in my prefs so for all I know he's written tons of articles dealing with this -- but, what the hell, no one else is posting better questions...
When you first arrived here, you wrote a series of articles about how Linux was the most fantastic thing ever and would completely transform the world -- all this before ever using it, or even seeing it. Eventually you managed to get started. Now, a year or so later, what do you think? Do you still consider it as important an innovation as fire or democracy? Have you tried installing other distros or doing your own troubleshooting? GTK or Qt? Are you still using it at all? Would you admit to going back to MacOS and Office if you had?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
...I've been hearing good things about Zimbu the Monkey. Which one of you is Zimbu the Monkey?
**>>BELCH
This is as blatant a statement of faith as any that you might be tempted to rail against. Try to understand: you believe that this life is all we get, and that anybody who says otherwise is wrong. But how do you know that to be true? I submit that you don't know it from any experience or hard proof. Maybe you heard it from somebody you respect; maybe you just feel more comfortable with this statement than with its opposite.
I won't say anything about the first possibility; that one is too easy. Besides, I guess that the second one is the more likely to be true. I should therefore like to point out that the comfort I once had in atheism/materialism was only sustainable with a corresponding blindness to uncomfortable facts. "The universe
Since you know about the two trees, you should have noticed that Adam was not forbidden to eat from the Tree of Life--until after he had eaten from the forbidden one. But what are you looking for anyway? Immortality? Meaning what? Eternal continuance? More of the same ol' same old every day? God has given far better than that: In Christ He has given Himself. More like an eternal marriage.
I sure wouldn't call him an extreme left-winger. But what he is is bad enough. I no longer remember the last article of his in which I saw him toss off a gratuitous, ill-informed swipe at the Christian faith, nor what the particular swipe was. What I do remember is that that was the moment I had had enough. Off to "User Preferences" I went, and changed my previously default /. settings to block him. Though the feature allows you to block any or all /. authors, I understand that it was added to slash principally because of him.
Now we have other authors posting JonKatz stories. Ugh. Do I gotta block all of them too?
How does the reaction of Slashdot's readers and forums differ from what you experienced when you were loathed on Hotwired?
rOD.
--
Rod Begbie done this, and he's not
But, on a serious note. I know i've got Katz filtered, an know large amounts of other people who have him filtered. Which raises the question, Jon, if so many "geeks" don't like you and the things you say, how can you go on writing as a representative of geeks? Doesn't your concious bother you? Making so much money off random writings about people who don't even like you is simply wrong, don't you think so?
** Martin
So a couple of stories a year that mention "Jon Katz" might appear, big deal. Do you complain when Rob posts a story that mentions Hemos? I think it's totally fair that Katzfilterers get to see an article about Jon, so that they might be able to take advantage of the unusual situation to review their opinion based on Jon's replies.
IMO, the slashdot crew should have priviliged posting status - say, karma fixed at 30 (or whatever is needed to get +1 bonus), and immunity to negative moderations. Jon especially needs this, as there enough Katz-hating moderators that I'm not surprised he never gets noticed.
When you are writing, do you claim to speak only for peopel you encounter in the US or abroad too?
I live in the UK and none of the geeks I've met seem to fit into your world view, despite them being, in my opinion, very much archetypal examples of whatever it means to be one.
Maybe this is just my experience but I'm quite well connected and it seems to me that peopel in teh US can't be that different to use over here. Do you ever stop and wonder whether you are believing your own hype?
Yeah, and they can quote great movies in lame flames too.
Most /.'ers are sheep, blindly following the crowd, but not you. You have guts. You have so much guts, you could floss King Ghidora's teeth. I applaud you.
/me likewise dons a nukesuit.
Even the Discordians?
Whew. I'd hate to think we were losing our edge.
What, if any, Universities/Colleges/Technical schools have you attended? What did you study?
This is one of those trolls who likes to slag other people by pretending to be them. Notice that little "." after his nick?
:)
Besides, if this *IS* Bruce Perens, then he's smoking crack.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Jeez, you think this guy is actually Bruce Perens? With that little period after his nick, you never can tell...
:(
Jesus, this is a whole new frontier in trolling. Not only do trolls have to talk about grits, natalie portman, and other BS like that, but they have to try to assume somebody else's name (and I'm just waiting now for somebody to come on as "Uruk." and start posting this shit)
The problem with the web is that there isn't a kick/ban function.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
It seemes that the technology industry is a field where a person is judged not by their color, income or sex, but by their technical skills and abilities; but the distribution of technology is a problem. It appears that technology is distributed in such a way that white suburbia has more of a chance at joining the technology industry than people of minority status.
With the influx of free(as in beer?) software and the explosion of the open source movement; it would seem that lower income(rural & urban) areas would have a greater potential for getting more computing power. The amount of hardware upgrades would seem to necessitate a steady supply of older machines that would be able to run Linux and open software at little cost.
But, it seems that this is not the case. The gap between technology and the low income areas of the U.S. is widening. How can we, as computer nerds, help to increase technology in affordable ways for the lower income areas. What do you as an outspoken member of the hacker community think of this paradox?
Producing satire is kind of hopeless because of the literacy rate of the American public. - Frank Zappa
You daft bastard. What do you think axioms are? Ever heard of the Carroll paradox?
All nihilism offers is another version of false hope. This is the only chance you get - but what was it we had to do again?
Hamish
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
This answer pleases me better:
Why not?
Hamish
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Patrick,
You and I were exchanging our views on this, and our conversation was just getting interesting, but then you stopped writing to me! So I deny your right to ask - although I'd like to see Jon answer the very same question.
Hamish
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
In jail? Yeah, behind bars; or maybe out there somewhere still, snowing some other gullible wretch.
"Mistah Katz, he dead!" (Sorry, couldn't resist).
I think he probably came in a car. Most people in the States drive, you know.
"What is wrong with my life
That I must get drunk every night?"
(Well, it's more like every second night, ACTUALLY).
Er, excuse me, sorry to butt in and all that, but... what PERFUMED PONCE here dared to compare JonKatz with Hunter S. Thompson? Have I missed something? I saw a post talking about Tom Wolfe etc etc (take or leave him; and you could take him, if it were up to me); but the Great Gonzo?! Thou shalt not take that name in vain.
Tut, tut. You're only allowed to ask ONE question. I suggest ~Do you want Mae Ling Mak naked and petrified?" -- I mean, who wouldn't? Err, no, wait, let me rephrase that. (Who IS Mae Ling Mak anyway?)
Hmm, you mean you didn't work it out? Katz stuff is posted this way because too many people ticked that little box! We ignored him, and he didn't go away; indeed, only got more insistent.
That's more or less the way I had it figured, but... I want to KNOW what the deal is. I think it is the most basic question here, and needs to be answered. However, it probably won't be. I can see all the goody-goody questions accumulating already -- "Please, Mr Katz Sir, can we ask you about `geeks' and `corporatism'? Huh? Can we, huh, huh?"
Uh-huh. So why is your e-mail address spam-proofed? You don't have to read it, you know. Same argument: advertising through unsolicited e-mail, advertising through posting fluff on /.: it's all advertising, and it all sucks.
Well, bully for you. But last time I looked, it didn't say "News for victims. Stuff that makes you cry." on the front page. Sorry for being brutal; but for Christ's sake, get over it. /. is a techie site, or it isn't at all, as far as I can see: the technical content, which is due 100% to the commentators, often anonymous, is what makes /. worth reading. Wade through all the "naked and pertrified" and "hot grits down my pants" and you'll find well-thought-out opinions on technical subjects from those who know enough to count. Anything that prejudices this is a bad thing. Turning /. into a self-help site for wounded "geeks" is an awful idea, for reasons that should be obvious. You need therapy? Go get therapy, with my sympathies. You don't? Then quit whining.
And he got a 4 for this drivel! Ye gods and little fishes!
> interacting with others in these threads?
JK couldn't have put it better himself. "Interacting" in "threads" indeed! What piffle!
> If there's a mark of a good writer/journalist, it's the ability to
> stir up the hornet's nest. Is that so now? I always thought the ability to communicate something worthwhile would be a more reliable guide.
All that said,
_ > rant and rave about how they want Katz to be roasted over an open pit > with hot Natalie Portman grits basted over him while being prodded by > sharpened edged of AOL CD's? This superb outburst reveals you for what you are -- a closet Katz-basher! Join us! Don't be afraid! It's society's crime, not ours!
Do you get paid to write for /.? If so, are you working freelance, or are you a member of And^H^H^HVA staff?
'nuf said - what motivates you to write for Slashdot? (You must answer without using the word "geek") :-)
----
Do you read any of Slashdot other than the comments posted to your articles?
pronoblem
How do you gauge this? Cash?
pronoblem
--locust
jonKatz
Damn. You're right. But hardly anything of his ever gets moderated back up above 1. So surfing @ 2 as I do by default, I don't see it. I with draw the question.
--locust
Because some of us actually like Jon Katz' editorials. /puts on fire proof suit.
When would you write your epic mega cyperpunkish/slashdotish novel about a special breed of Anonymous Coward who brough their vengence upon a slightly misguided individual who thought he knew what popular nerd culter was about ? :)
Anyway, could someone post a big enough sentence, something that stretched pages and still intelligent and non complex.
Thank You.
--
Hello,
:)
This is my theory and my question.
Mr. Katz is an entity that keeps on writing relativly low tech stories to a bunch of people who arnt mainly interested in these stories, over time they got real frustrated and kept bringing their vengence upon him.
But, he didnt change his style, he just kept on writing in the same tone in the same form. He didnt even try to adjust to the form needed neither did he just give up... Which leads to the assertion that.. Katz might be an AI entity (maybe piped off from Everything ) with a little bit of hacked Mega Hal code.
Thus my question is. Katz, are you human?
Thank you.
Note: wrote that with a straight face
--
It is 100% nurture, 0% nature. If you doubt that, then please explain why the religion of the child is so closely related to its upbringing :-)
:-)
Therefore I suggest the onus is on religious people to explain the anomaly of having acquired religion, whether christian, buddhist, or atheist.
And there are alternatives to being EITHER religious OR an atheist. I am areligious. I simply have no religion. It is not a part of my life. I don't care what you believe for or against.
If there are no gods, then I have lost nothing.
If there are gods, then they are either good gods or bad gods.
Good gods won't punish me for being as they made me, so it does no harm to not bow down to them.
Bad gods -- well, fsck them anyway
--
Infuriate left and right
I want to see if he has a different perspective - not if he has yours.
It's a rare person indeed that draws such an intense response from the geeks and slashdotters amongst us - I'd like to know why you keep posting and commenting even though so many people are outwardly hostile towards you...
What draws you towards this community?
Well, is there?....
I've never thought anything he's ever written seemed interesting enough to actually read.
Him joining
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
Hi, Jon.
Have you read Lloyd Wood's critique of your writings? He compares you to Richard Stallman (at least in terms of the reactions you both seem to cause in people) and analyzes your research and conclusions through various essays and pieces.
I'm curious. What is your reaction to this piece?
--
how to invest, a novice's guide
Normally I wouldn't wade into this debate, but I'd just like to point out that science never denies the existance of a God. As a matter of fact, if you talk to many physicists, you will find that many of them actually believe in some kind of higher being/abstraction. This just usually can't be made into a concept as small as the Christian God, though.
Quite a lot of the stuff you write seems to challenge the generally-held views of the geek community, and I think this is a good thing - the community as a whole is very introspective and prone to one-sided thinking. And as you've seen, when the general "this is how it is" viewpoint of the geek community is violated or even questioned, random flames rather than reasoned debate are the usual result. Do you think this sometimes blinkered outlook is a real problem, or is it just a sign of healthy self-confidence?
Nothing personal, but I really get sick of people claiming that science is a faith.
*Good* science is a continually self-correcting way of looking at the world. Good science doesn't tell us "what happened", instead, it gives us a model that fits
observable data. It doesn't claim "truth".
Scientists who claim to tell you "how the watch works on the inside" (if you think of the universe as a watch that we can't open) are not practicing good science.
Good scientists would give you a model that fits the data (how the hands seem to move) as a plausible model, while understanding that the model itself could be
totally wrong. There could be little Elves in the watch that make it work--we will probably never know. But as long as the model accounts for any observable, and
the model is self consistent, the model works.
According to Webster's, faith is "unquestioning belief", exactly the opposite of good science. Good scientists constantly question their model. New ways of
thinking appear on the scene when some observable that either doesn't fit or isn't accounted for in the current model is found. And when the new model is
proposed, good scientists try their damnedest to shoot holes in it. *If* it survives the scrutiny of scientists, it may either be adopted or included in another
model.
Trying to understand "Truth" is outside the realm of science. Giving a *plausible* explanation that can be used to predict future events is the work of science.
The existence of a god or gods is outside that realm. Look at the hypothesis: There exists an entity, all knowing and all powerful, that is undetectable, and is
responsible for the events in everyday life by exerting invisible "force". It isn't testable. But that doesn't mean it isn't true, it means it is beyond
experiment, and thus beyond science.
Not only this, but the God hypothesis doesn't explain any observables that aren't explained in a more simple manner by other hypotheses. So most scientists don't
spend much time on it, unless they have a personal reason to believe it (in which case they are looking for facts to fit a hypothesis, rather than a hypothesis to
fit the data, and are practicing bad science).
To practice good science, keep an open mind to possibilities, understand that the explanations we use are plausible models only (so don't get attached to them),
and most importantly, demand hard *proof* for explanations. If it is untestable, it is outside of the power of science to support or refute.
Sorry, nothing personal, but such claims need to be answered. Please don't confuse good science with bad science and faith.
This sig is false.
There are numerous counterexamples from history (in accounts that are usually rejected as historical simply because they contain such counterexamples) and several in my personal experience. Rejecting data just because it doesn't fit the model is hardly scientific, but it happens all the time. This is another way in which science is treated as a religion.
Show me something repeatable that can't be explained without the god hypothesis.
Again, to stress, this doesn't make it untrue. I said that means most scientists won't spend much time with it.
This sig is false.
I remember when you first started posting on /. your day job was with freedomforum.org and Slashdot was just something you wrote for because you wanted to. my question is, are you now on Slashdot/Andover/VA payroll, and where else are you currently writing stuff? or more briefly...what is your "day job," besides writing cool books about geeks?
I post links to stuff here
So, how is the Linux experiment going ? Have you given up, or are you quietly playing with it for an hour or so a day, learning a little more ?
This is a genuine question, not a flame !
--
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
jon, I've been both a fan and a critic. Your recent writing really seems an attempt to grab a motivation as powerful as the Hellmouth series.
/. for breaking tech stories?
my question then is,
Are you attempting to be the head of this beast for political guidance or are you attempting to be the tail to concisely package the actual news that does filter through this system and our opinions for the mainstream media readership that uses
Mike Ford
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
As to your third point, it is impossible to disprove any theorem. Note UFO's, Bigfoot, and Nessy. You can go through case by case and debunk every argument and proof offered, and you will never disprove anything.
Bite the hand.
Yes! And I've customized my /. to filter him out. Now if there was only a way to avoid seeing his stories in metamod and, of course, stories ABOUT him. Today we get two. Yech.
Considering how long-winded he is when he rants on a single topic, I can't imagine how long his reply to 10 distinct questions will be.
Here's an obligatory question: John, have you ever heard of the word concise?
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
When will slashdot allow me to hide _ALL_ stories related to Katz, not just the ones he writes. Perhaps fiter out EVERY refernce to Katz? Sure, he might be a nice person and all, I just don't care to hear any more about/from him.
signal, noise, to me it's all the same.
that the deal is quid pro quo. Though he doesn't directly work for them, they promote each other, in an odd way. You must remember that virtually every Katz post generates traffic, even if the majority of readers hate him. This traffic inturn generates revenues for slashdot. Though I think promoting a hack like Katz might ultimately harm slashdot in the long run, that is another story.
Katz profits from his slashdot articles, because it promotes his name amongst the internet crowd. Also other sites and journalists may very well quote him because of his recognition. In addition, when it comes time to sell his books he can steer hundreds of slashdot jr.'s and newage types with his influence. Not only does this help pad out his otherwise nominal sales, but i'm convinced it sends a signal of sorts to his publisher. Unlike most other hacks, he has found a way to create a significant amount of sales and interest the first couple days the book hits the shelves using slashdot and other forums. This likely prompts the publisher to promote the book, and make it more visible...prompting more sales.
In short, Katz is a hack that appeals to kiddies and long hairs. As much as I despise him, i must give him some credit for figuring out a way to set himself apart from his kind.
Ah, I see that the imposter is back. Beware!! -Brent
Actually, as a Christian, I find infidels.org to be a really well-done site. Read their essay on freethinkers -- while I don't agree with a lot of it, at least it's not written by bigots who assume that the fact they call themselves nontheists makes them superior to theists.
By definition, a religion is based on faith. What is faith? Unquestioning belief.
No, faith is not just unquestioning belief. The best definition I have heard is "belief put into action." We all have faith in something. For some it's their spouses. Do you really mean to say that scientists should not have faith in their spouses, if they are married? We all have faith in the laws of physics. How do you know they won't all change tomorrow? Faith is not exclusive to religion, but most religions involve faith.
I put my faith in Christ after a series of questions. When I was a teenager, I started asking them. Why does life seem empty to some of the most intelligent, insightful people who have ever lived? Why does our society tell us that money is a bad thing to live for and then look down upon those who abandon it for another pursuit? And so on...
1. why am I an atheist?
2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
3. how do I know there isn't a God?
4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
Although I am not an atheist per-se, I thought I'd answer the questions
1. Because I have yet to find any testable proof that a God exists.
2. Quite a bit, but the first thing to know is that there is no proof. That's the first assertion of atheism, the the burden of proof lies on the asserter.
3. I don't. Nobody does.
4. Zero. They are both devout Methodists.
What are your thoughts about the whole DeCSS fiasco? Do you believe it's a way for the MPAA control who has access to DVD data, rather than just a copyright control mechanism? Will you write a feature about it? :)
My OpenDVD artwork
æeee!
Look, saying that there's no anti-Christian sentiment in Katz' stuff is a bit ridiculous.
The difference between a mythology and a religion, is that the individual classifies it as such. At the same time, the vast majority of Christian people on this planet do not criticize other religions. Of course, it does happen, but those are the ones who are vocal.
Katz should have just a slight amount of respect for other religions. Respect is one step higher from tolerance, and tolerance is one step higher from holocaust. He exorcises tolerance from what I've read.
Scientists believe in God too.
"I want to know God's thoughts,..... the rest are details.." -- Albert Einstein.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their
use." -- Galileo Galilei
etc. The rules of Physics are the rules that God made. Rules are meant to be broken, but that doesn't mean that we, as humans, can break them. Just because someone may be scientific doesn't make them atheist, and just because someone is religious doesn't mean they're non-scientific.
Just something to think about.
Genius. Lets restate what I've stated:
The difference between a mythology and a religion, is that the individual classifies it as such.
Translation (for stupid people): The individual (you or me), has each his own definition of the difference between a religion and a mythology.
i.e. I believe generally in Catholicism, which I should descibe more specificly as the teachings of Christ (I personally believe that the Old Testiment was more of a rule book with stories than anything else). I believe that worshipping Zeus and the Greek gods is a mythology. That doesn't mean that it wasn't ever considered a religion or that you may still practice religiously.
As for your final statement.
i don't respect the KKK, and i definately don't respect christianity (in any form.)
This just announces your ignorance to the world. Do I have respect for the KKK? No, absolutely not. Do I have respect for the individuals in the KKK? Believe it or not, I actually do, and this is why: They're human-beings and I believe they are making a mistake. They've been taught to hate, and they've collapsed into a depressing abyss that they needs help from escaping. Nobody is inherently hateful, they must learn it.
Do I have respect for Christianity? Absolutely. Christianity stands 100% for dealing with people like you who are ignorant to how people work, love, hate, etc. Now the practice of Christianity has been flawed, but of course you should expect this because we are all human-beings. I highly suggest you go out and read, in detail the New Testament, not for religious reasons, but rather for insight on how people work. I also suggest you watch American History X. It may give you a little insight into the human psyche.
I honestly feel bad for you, because you're your own worst enemy with that attitude.
Hi Rob,
I like your site a lot. I check it out on a daily basis and if time permitting, I usually involve myself in the discussions. When I noticed that you had an option to filter postings by users, I chose to filter Jon Katz for the obvious reasons.
Today, however, You and Roblimo decided to post stuff about Katz. Now I ask you why? Why are you posting a clip from his book? Why is Roblimo asking people to ask questions? Why isn't Katz posting it? Is it to give a different perspective? Or is it to force people who have Katz filtered to join in on the conversation? I'd really like to know your reasons. Please get back to me.
~~Kevlar
If you agree with this, then moderate up.
Katz,
/.'ers moderate this down as flamebait, at least consider letting the minority speak.
I am a Christian. I am a geek. I am not alone. Though we ChristoGeeks (a new demograph I just coined which you may proceed to patronize) tend to be a quiet group here on Slashdot, I felt the need to voice this question.
You seemingly never fail to rail upon religion (more often than not, Christianity) in each of your posts here. I haven't read your book, but more than likely you will do it in there too. My question is... why? Obviously you are against relgion, and seem to view it as a form of mind control/censorship. Did you have a bad experience with Christianity as a young child? Do you think the vocal minority of Christians in the public eye are obnoxious? Or is this simply another way to pander to your audience, who at the time is mainly comprised of anti-Christian slashdot readers.
Thanks for your time. At least reading your articles lets me see just how far the extreme left-wingers would like to take things.
p.s. Before any Christian-brainwashed-sheep hating
----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}
warn "Just Another Perl User" if $anyone_cares;
As you seem to have a healthy fascination with social imapcts of technology (although I would argue that there is more to technology than just computers, contrary to what I often see asserted in your articles), what authors do you see as having important things to say about technology and society?
Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
Within ten sentences, you managed to tell us three times that you're bisexual. I'm really not trying to flame here, but do you really think that people care about your own sexual orientation that much that you feel the need to tell us that over and over? I'm not saying that it's true in your case, but most people I know personally who go around reminding everyone of their bisexual orientation are doing it for no other reason than to say, "Hey, look at how hip I am!" Whether or not that fits you, it definitely sounds like you're hung up on your sexuality.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Dammit Truffle, two references in five sentences that time.
Okay, so I'm just yanking your chain. I did feel like I got hit with the hammer in your first post, but I can see how it was inadvertent on your part. No harm, no foul, take care..
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Hi. What's the status of the Brill's Content gig? I can't remember seeing any of your articles in there lately, but haven't seen anything from you or Content which says that you aren't writing for them anymore. Thanks.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
For JonKatz:
/. crowd hasn't been to generous with that. How do you get motivated to write and what is the satisfaction derived from it?
/. whiners:
as a write, I imagine compensation and moral satisfaction is one of the hardest things to get, and this
For the massive group of
Grow up!! What's this whining about "I have Jon Katz filtered! I don't want to read anything about JonKatz!" mixed with copius amounts of curses and, foul language and bad grammar. Is scrolling by and not reading an article really that hard??? Does Rob and Hemos etc need to hold your hand and wipe the drool from your mouth? Come on people..I don't like everything I see here, I don't like everything I see everywhere...so? Does me ranting and raving about any of that actually help anything??? If you think JonKatz sucks then don't read it..get on with your life. Perhaps, you should write a piece yourself that's much better. This is not a popularity contest, it's an information resource and open discussions. In a discussion, each party contributes with reasonable arguments in a polite manner for bettering our understanding on various issues.
Slashdot is what it is..take it or leave it, but whining is pointless...arguably, much like this posting will become.
You've posted a lot of opinion pieces, and expressed a lot of common ideas, sometimes simple, sometimes slightly thoughtful (almost always provoking someone), but I haven't seen you present many solutions. So my question is hypothetical. If you could change any 5 things in the world, what would they be?
I know that this is cyberspace, nobody knows you're a dog, and we should judge everyone by things other than apperance, and all that.
But I've often been reading these interviews (which, by the way, are far better than interviews most anywhere else - the questions are better and there is no time limit or sound byte requirement) and been curious about what the person interviewed looks like. I guess I'm kindof a visual person, and it's funny that while I've read things about John Katz, John Carmack, Mandrake, and a whole bunch of others, I'd at least like to see a picture.
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Honestly, I think you are a bit misguided, but that isn't a question, now is it?
Question:
Since most of your articles generally deal with lack of privacy by the influence of capitalism, my question would be why are you obessed with privacy or the lack thereof? Was it a specific incident that started it, or just a nice cause to latch onto?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - F. Voltaire.
I have the Katz filter on, but there are two Katz stories on the front page today. So I feel I must add my voice to the cacophony of shouts that this be fixed once and for all
Just to make that clear, here is the question I would like to ask Katz:
Jon Katz, why don't you just fuck off and die? Does it give you a great deal of pleasure annoying /. readers and doing your media whore routine in an unfriendly environment?
I have an addition to this question: Are you used to having an editor for your professional journalistic writing, and do you have an editor for your articles on slashdot? If you don't have an editor for your articles on slashdot, do you think perhaps that getting an editor would help with the writing style factors that you are so criticized on?
--LeBleu
If you're reading this you're part of the mass hallucination that is Kevin the Blue.
How do you think you would view the tech-head community if you had grown up after the PC revolution? Say you'd had an apple ][ when you where 8. Do you think you'd be a geek? Would you still be astonished by geeks or would you take them for granted?
--Shoeboy
Just to nitpick, there is no "Judeo-Christian" belief system. I've never heard any Jew use that word. It's a term coined by the Religious Right in a futile attempt to not alienate all Jews (though they don't seem to mind alienating Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, semi-logical Christians, or anyone else). Believe it or not, Jews and Christians believe different things -- that's why they're different religions. Whoa.
So, why is the print media special? You proclaim the death of the CD with the rise of MP3 and the death of VHS and DVD with the [inevitable] rise of easy digital copying, and then ask us to buy your book. Why don't you proclaim the death of the book with the rise of HTML?
HTML is today easier to copy, post, and download by at least an order of magnitude compared to MP3, especially over a modem. If I buy your book, would you have an objection if I scanned the book in and posted it on the web? If so, how is this different than the posting of MP3s which you so often tout?
I understand that you have children in college (and, being a student myself, I understand how expensive it is), but why should you, as a print author, be any more desrving of my money than a musician or filmmaker?
Having said that, here's my question: You've said yourself that you are not a technical person. What makes you think that you can speak for those of us who are?
When I first came to slashdot, it was the "News for nerds" title that drew me. I'm a nerd. I'm a geek. And so forth.
Technical things are interesting. But there are other things that makes me pay attention too. For example - Jon Katz, when he is talking about the bullying of geeks.
I don't know about you, but I for one was the main "victim" of my school, from first to ninth grade. Only one slashdot poster has made me cry. And that is Jon Katz - because some of his articles hit too good.
Maybe his articles isn't interesting to you. They sure are to me. His articles are the best there is on slashdot - in my opinion.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - arcade@kvine-nospam.sdal.com - arcade@efnet
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
Can someone put some useful code behide the config toggles? I don't want articles written by Katz, I don't want articles about Katz... I don't care about his film or book!
And now for a question: Jon Katz, do you have the 'ignore Katz' toggle selected in your SlashDot profile? Do you read SlashDot?
This same guy has made many posts using the accuont name Bruce Perens. (yes, the . is part of the username here). I thought someone at /. was going to clear out all of these bogus "Famous Person Name". accounts...
Eric
Wow. I guess I'm behind the times. Stop reading Jon for a while, and he actually starts participating ...
Actually, I pretty much agree with this analysis -- I wasn't considering regionalisms, and I think you are correct to point out that my new orthodoxy comment is mostly an urban, elite, and bi-coastal phenomenom.
Of course, I'm posting from deep in the heart of "flyover." :^)
It still seems odd to me, though, to acknowledge that the government and media (the "fourth estate") have abandoned a Christian basis, and yet have people complain about what a Christian-dominated country this is. Along with corporatism, which is simply institutionalised Mammon worship, government and the media would seem to be our dominant national institutions at this point.
Well, since you seem to be a nonchristian, this kind of puts you in the odd position of asserting that a bigotry that you would not experience must not exist ...
Technically, the USA (and most of the West) would be today post-Christian societies. While American society at one time was formed by some sort of Christian consensus (or at least Deist -- I know perfectly well that not all of the founders were orthodox Christians), the dominant "orthodoxy" today is a secular liberalism with a hearty dose of new age/neopagan/neognostic spirituality.
For some good examples of the ejection of pretty much all religious tradition (not just the Judeo-Christian one) from the public square, I recommend reading Stephen Carter's The Culture of Disbelief : How American Law and Politics Trivialize Religious Devotion.
At the risk of igniting flamage, the whole school prayer issue illustrates exactly what I mean. Yes, a few decades ago, we did have established prayers in public schools, and I think the courts were right to find this an impermissible establishment of religion. But we've moved beyond that today, where courts are finding that to permit students to exercise religion on campus is to somehow "establish" it. This is hardly "predominance."
I know you read your email, since you've used email as a basis for a number of your essays, and you actually have answered whenever I've emailed you directly. However, I'm pretty sure I've never seen you participate in a Slashdot discussion itself, whether it was one about your own stories, or any other.
Do you actually read the feedback that gets posted as replies?
Notice, I didn't say "GIRLS FOR GEEKS", I said "Geek Girls". i.e. a girl like me...
I am in fact hoping that Jon will provide us with an enlightened response, as he hasn't yet.
Sexbots or no, it's possible that he'll produce more insight than some others here.
We know how hemos, CmdrTaco, and Roblimo feel about geek girls, but we haven't ever heard a related story from JonKatz. Given your traditional stance against all the western social problems one would think you'd have a few interesting things to say.
For being central to such a vocal part of the community, do you actually read, write, and communicate with the community? Do you use a nom de plume, and for what reasons?
It *seems* as if you can relate to us, but do you actually, as it were, live in the trenches? There's the JonKatz I see as an author, journalist, etc, but there's also the JonKatz I'd be interested in seeing as the person, with opinions, viewpoints, and responses that aren't so thought out or calculated, edited, refined, etc.
JonKatz raw, so to speak.
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Given those things, how do you feel that the things you are learning on your "journey" and expressed in your written "voice" are applicable to the (sometimes ravening) hordes here at Slashdot?
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
The answer is simple:
Every newspaper has its editorial section. Why not Slashdot?
Although, I will also agree that
1. Most newspapers run editorials from more than one person while Slashdot's editorials only come from Johnny Katz.
2. Most newspapers have a limit (500 words?) on guest editorials, while Slashdot lets Johnny ramble on+on+on...
Anyway, I don't filter him, but usually just ignore him because most of the time I don't care.
P.S. Usually, when I read the opinion pages of the paper, I look for the "Letters to the Editor" and especially the editorial cartoons. Slashdot could use the latter, but in a geek-oriented way.
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
Bah, that should read:
"... don't care about the topic he's ranting on."
Preview? We don't need no steenking preview!
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
Ok, I am going to have to agree with you on one point. Many people who claim to be athiests do so with as little thought as some people who adhere blindly to religious doctrine. Moreover, you are right (as far as I know) that there could have been a God who created the universe with a big bang, billions of years ago.
Religion IS a blind pursuit for most, however. That does not mean that people enter into a faith without any thought, but it entails a rejection of rational thought to do so. If one accepts the theory of reason, science is by far the most successful theory at explaining the earth, the universe and human motivations. Although I admit the possibility of God in some form, I cannot accept the Bible as the word of God. I have studied the Bible for years, and it is a thoroughly human document, albeit beautiful and meaningful.
Jon:
I'm leaping in late, so I will probably get lost in the fray, but here goes:
I love the Katz postings and I really don't much like Katz. I love the postings because some very good and elightened discussions follow your blatantly slanted and singleminded posts. In other words, when you read between the flames that follow any Katz posting you see some of the best of what Slashdot has to offer.
None of this has anything to do with my question. My question is this:
Do you see any danger in two tendencies I see in your postings about youth alienation? Tendency 1: You tend to assume that all alienated young people fall into one category: geek, and that that category is uniquely characterized by intelligence, computer use, and gaming culture. Tendency 2: You tend to elevate, dare I say, normal adolescent angst into a cause decrying the whole of the adult world.
I think you oversimplify. There are alienated kids who do not obviously belong to a marketing demographic. There are geeks who are not alienated. You seem to have a tendency to absolve the young and alienated from any resposibility for their status or their actions. How would you defend what you do against these assertions?
If I'm a karma whore, Katz is my pimp!
I know this is an old one but I always like to ask it.
Jon, If you could go out for a beer (A rendition of the island or box question) with three people past or present who would they be and why.
Sleekit
"Dooh" --Homer J. Simpson esq.
Well... you see... that's why you post intelligently at work, and troll from home (or vice-versa, depending on preference).
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Except that your prediction was false... CmdrTaco has apparently said that he won't do anything about these accounts, and for precisely that reason...
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Jon,
In many of your writings you portray geeks as misunderstood, persecuted victims of a heartless, clueless society. Your "Hellmouth" series protrayed the Columbine shooters in this way when, by their own admission, they were just angry bullies who wanted to kill their way to fame. It's true that many geeks have a hard time in high school, but isn't a feeling of alienation the definition of adolescence? Why do you seem promote a victim mentality among geeks when it seems that most geeks are in fact happier, more mentally healthy, and have better jobs than the majority of the population?
I hate to participate in a "Me Too" comment, but I really think I need to speak up here and be counted. I really HATE Jon Katz. I hate reading what he writes, I hate reading ABOUT what he writes, I hate reading about HIM answering questions!
Why, oh why, doesn't the JonKatz filter catch this crap?? You should offer a "grep JonKatz" filter that removes all articles even mentioning this idiot.
-TomK
From your articles, I tend to believe you lean a bit to the left in your politics, possibly a "left centrist". Am I mistaken, or are you more or less liberal in your beliefs?
"You seemingly never fail to rail upon atheism in each of your posts here. I haven't read them all, but more than likely this is the case. My question is... why? Did you have a bad experience with atheism as a young child? Do you think the vocal minority of atheists in the public eye are obnoxious?
Thanks for your time. At least reading your posts lets me see just how far the extreme conservatist right-wing Christians would like to take things."
Not that I don't think of Christianity as a default philosophy on life for everyone ("bad experience ... as a young child") or that voicing one's ideology isn't sucking up to the audience ("another way to pander").
It's good that we're not running out of right- (or maybe s/right/one/ ?) minded people anywhere in the near future.
It seems that your features on slashdot tend to be editorials, and these tend get fairly poor reviews - while some of the reviews tend to be less than constructive, I've noticed here and there suggestions that could be seen as constructive criticism - do you take these into consideration when writing something for slashdot? Have you considered writing other types of features other than editorials?
Touch The Puppet Head
I know you said only ask one question, but like anyone has yet to follow those guidelines. :P I usually don't speak up much, I just read, occasionally I'll post (ok ok, so sometimes I first post) something funny or something that I thought, but usually I just observe. One thing I have observed was the constant flame and prejudice against you Mr. Katz. I mean some people on slashdot (I'm not going to mention any names) immediatly post negative comments on an article just because it has your name on it, regardless of if it was good or not. There's always talks that you shouldn't be allowed to post stories or that your editorials suck, blah blah and hardly ever is there anything good said about you. How do you put up with it? Does it ever upset you to be treated like this? What is it that keeps you from fighting back, or from packing up your game and taking your insight elsewhere?
I don't know much about Jon Katz. I did enjoy his article about Voices from Hellmouth (which also was the first time I ever posted to slashdot) and I understood part of his point of view on the southpark movie, other than those two I didn't do any indepth reading of articles by Jon Katz. However in the comments I have seen directed towards Mr. Katz I have seen much flame, much hate, and much anger. I've seen him have to put up with things that I went through in school, people bullying and people picking on him, people putting him down and making fun of him, many times for no reason at all. Some of the people here make me not want to be called a geek because I wouldn't want to be associated with them, and I've never once even felt the slightest ashamed of being a geek until now. You're a strong man Mr. Katz.
~TheWall
What exactly is a day in life of Jon Katz like? I've seen people ask what qualifications you have, and much about your writing style, but I am interested in what your life is like. What do you do in a typical day? Do you stir up conversation and debate in person as you do in your articles on slashdot?
Let me preface by saying that I actually like a lot of what you write. I think you're wrong sometimes, but such are the dangers of discourse. Does all of the criticism heaped on you by the /. comminity ever get to you? Does it make you want to take you writings elsewhere? Does it change the way you approach writing? Greg
And as a follow up, do you think there is a bigger prick on the internet than Bruce Perens?
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
Lots of geeks I know are just out of college, or get their first job at a startup and promptly get screwed because they don't know how to negotiate or stand up for themselves when the boss wants a 100-hour week. Do you have any advice for them?
Who are you?
I know this sounds ignorant... but I just want to see how you view yourself.
Sig missing. Reward.
I've got Katz-icles filtered out in my user pages, yet I notice that there is a book review AND interview on my front page. My question is:
How high up the VA Linux management hierarchy did you have to call to get the Slasdot crew to violate their few remaining shreds of integrity and force you once again down our throats?
--
Java banners:
Bad for users because Java kills Netscape
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
GoodPint
Damn this is a good question! Please moderate this guy's question up! In a recent article in a Brazilian internet magazine they make the same question and the traditionalists (a.k.a. offended journalist) said that news media must be independent and that they should only inform what they believe is news worthy... in other words, some small group of lame-a** idiots decide on what we should hear, read and opionate on. PLEASE moderate tao.ca's question up!
All browsers' default homepage should read: Don't Panic...
That's probably the root cause, and the kings and generals knew that. However the rallying cry to the troops wasn't "We Need More Land!" Troops were organized under a banner of culture, ethnicity and religion. Religion is one of the more powerful influences too. If you say "if you fail in your quest you'll have less land" people confronted with death might turn back. If, however, you say "if you fail in your quest you'll go to hell" then it's another matter entirely.
I believe that the root cause of all wars, is the same as the root cause of everything humans do. This belief stems from a belief in "evolution", not necessarily the theories of Darwin, but an idea that species with superior traits prosper, making species without those traits less common. This fundamental cause is "advancement of the genes". Territorial pressures result from a need for more resources, which comes from the genetic benefit of having sufficient resources for all the offspring.
If I could see something that is not possible with the current understanding of science or any other future science... sure. But I don't see how that's possible. To a caveman a 747 is a miracle, but a 747 is not inexplicable, just not up to caveman physics.
I admit, I hadn't thought of the communist revolutions as a pro-athiest movement, and I see how it could be seen that way. I still see a difference. Communism was a huge political force, advocating an entirely new system of government which included a belief that religion was useless. Where past political wars had been "kill all the people who don't share our religious beliefs", this was more "kill all the people who don't like our new system of government". A small difference but a significant one.
And how many athiest "martyrs" have there been? Maybe one? Athiesm doesn't encourage martyrdom.
I'm somewhere between an agnostic and an athiest. I don't know whether there is a god, many gods or no gods, but the whole idea seems pretty far-fetched to me. However I don't think too much about god / gods because there aren't too many "supernatural" events in my life that get me wondering about them. I believe in science because it's a pretty decent set of rules to live by. It's convenient to think that gravity exists because every time I've let go of something it has dropped.
However nearly every day I'm assaulted by organized religion. The most recent annoyance was the Super Bowl. Religious players seemed to think that "God" wanted one team to win, and were intent on thanking "Him" for every point. (Strangely however nobody was evidently angry with "Him" for their team losing -- maybe they just accept he wanted the other team to win).
Organized religion, and religious doctrine in particular has been given as a reason for a lot of brutality in history. It has also been the way monarchs maintained power, and that a class system was maintained.
To answer the questions in the original post:
Because it is the easier and simpler belief.
None whatsoever. However, unlike organised religious study, athiesm doesn't require any study.
I don't, but I know I've never seen anything that would make me think there might be.
Admittedly a lot. My dad didn't believe in any gods, and although my mom is now back to her Catholic religion she wasn't practicing when I was younger.
I don't really care, whether there is or isn't a god the laws of physics are not likely to spontaneously turn off. Life will go on as normal. Maybe when I die I'll find out there was a god and I'll go to heaven/hell/purgatory, but I'm not going to live my life differently on the off chance that happens. I guess the main reason I want to be right is the Wizard Of Oz type of thing. It would be sort-of disappointing to see the current nice self-consistent world be ruined by the extra metaphysical baggage of a god.
I think the big misunderstanding comes from the belief that being an athiest is simply another set of religious beliefs like being a catholic. I think that's completely wrong.
The athiest takes the world as what it appears to be. A sum of what our senses and sensors tell us is there. A person who believes in gods adds to that world view yet another "item", a god.
I see no reason to use the more complicated world system. I don't believe in gods, however I'm not going to shove my views in people's faces and constantly decry "there are probably no such things as gods!". As long as other people don't shove their views in my face I don't really care what they believe.
Unfortunately most religious beliefs seem to require the believer to spend time in worship or in prayer. They also seem to encourage people to follow leaders and to spread the belief system. These are things that athiests and agnostics don't have. This last difference is the reason you see Christians, Muslims and Jews involved in religious wars but you rarely see an army of athiests trying to kill all the people who believe in gods.
Anyhow, I know this is probably going to upset people but it's not meant to do that -- it's just that I get so tired of having organized religion in my face so much I sometimes have to vent. I apologize for it being a rambling post, but I won't apologize for my beliefs.
Jon, I've read most of your articles. I will say that I think you do a great job of conveying your point to your intended audience. However, I'm curious what you think about your own writing/brainstorming ability:
Do you think that the stories you write or the ideas that you have about geek culture (or whatever) are very original? If so, don't you think that many Slashdot posters would be able to write articles just as well as you and argue strongly for them over and over, much the way that you do?
To explain where I'm coming from a bit, I'll point out that I think that many people get the feeling when they read your writings that you think you're some sort of geek saint who is enlightening us with your eternally insightful wisdom. I think that what you're saying probably is about as deep as the conversations most Slashdot readers have with their co-workers about Internet/geek culture or whatever.. but that's just me.
As many of the other question-posters, I have no intention of being hostile. We've all heard everyone's opinion of you, but I'd like to hear your opinion of you.
I'd have to agree with what I'd perceive to be the broad sentiment here.
I've met genuine atheists. But not many.
Seriously, there are plenty of people who, after thought and/or investigation, have conclueded that there is no deity. There are rather more who have simply decided that the whole thing sounds potentially iffy and like it might make their life harder, so don't bother really thinking about it.
This isn't unique to atheism - there are plenty of Christians whose faith is on a similar footing - but to call yourself an atheist when you're rather closer to a lazy agnostic isn't right.
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
I'd agree with you, but...
There are plenty who practice bad science and treat it as if it were religion. They're who our original poster was referring to, I'd suspect.
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
ISWYM, but I'd have difficulty classing someone you'd define as a 'weak atheist' as anything other than a lazy agnostic. And it's still not quite what I was referring to.
I suppose the point is that we're talking a big question here. I mean, how much bigger can you get than 'Why am I here?'. Now, if you've come to the conclusion that there are no gods, so be it. I disagree with you but you're welcome to your opinion.
If you've come to the conclusion that you haven't seen any evidence so far so you're going to assume there aren't, that's not something I could agree with. I'd prefer it if you looked a little harder. Now, if you then decide that there still aren't any gods, fine - but you've now got the information to make the decision.
Those I was particularly objecting to, though, are those who decide that they don't much care whether there are any gods and so will believe there aren't. This strikes me as a little head-in-the-sand, to be honest, and is what I was objecting to particularly.
Ultimately, if you want others to refer to you by a specific term, feel free. However, you may find that that term has connotations or baggage which force others not to use it in reference to you, though. And to say that you believe there are no gods when you actually mean that you haven't met one yet but you're not going to consider the possibility is a little odd.
Please note again, this criticism isn't just aimed at atheism - there are plenty of people in any religion who are there by default rather than conviction.
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
CmdrTaco == Rob Malda's handle Hemo == Jeff Bates' handle yet... JonKatz == Jon Katz's handle Why couldn't/didn't you come up with a handle like the rest of the Slashdot authors?
Get fragged @ Lone Star Quake
South Texas' premier Quake server
Very funny, I must say!
Since he (self-admittedly) can't even install Linux without extensive help, why does he hold himself up as being some kind of a geek spokesman? Just being a whiny 12 year old with a long litany about how downtrodden you are does not make you a geek. Go home and take your angst with you.
I've been thinking of doing somthing else entirely. i've got two browsers on here IE and Mozilla m11. I could esealy setup mozilla as my 'trolling' alter ego, and post normaly under this. Better then switching back and forth... Actualy, my other account is more of a karma whore then this one, though...
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Bruch Penis was cooler then you'll ever be, foogle
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Kleibold and Harris did not hunt down Jews, Buddhists or Hindus in their rampage at Columbine, they went after Christians
This is incorrect. Kleibold and Harris went after any arbitrary target they could find. Since columbine was a predominantly Xian city, most of there victims were Christian.
Also, as far as Christian persecution, I really doubt its common probably less common them Muslim bashing. IIRC, Kleibold and Harris were not considered "heroes" to the general public or anything.
Maybe if we didn't have to hear Alan Keys talking about how Homosexuality is an abomination, you guys wouldn't get so much flack, you think?
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When rob first instated author filtering, he posted the results of how many people filtered had filtered who. At that time, Katz has about 600 people killfile him. (with the other authors getting one or two).
I'd think that that number has gone up since then, but I still doubt that it is a significant percentage of slashdot users. I don't like him, but I don't filter him. I may just be an info-junky though (I surf at -1 for example).
I'm reminded of the line from the Howard stern movie, where the radio execs were talking about Howard's ratings. People who liked him listened for an average of 20 minutes, and the people who hated him, listened for 40. Of course, Katz is less inflammatory then Stern, and it seems most people who don't like him just think he's boring and stupid.
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The number of people who dislike signal_11 is a lot less then the number of people who dislike Katz. It appears that sig11 only 'karma whored' for a while to see if the moderation system was truly broken. There is no indication that he does so anymore, seeing as no one else can see his karma anymore, and that he has enough that he'd be able to post for years without worrying.
The biggest difference is that sig11 actually writes well, unlike Katz. In my eyes, most of the people who complain about sig11 are those who are two stupid an illiterate to post anything useful, and are simply jealous of him.
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Who do you hate the most?
JohnKatz
Roblimo
CmndrTaco
Hemos
VA_whore
Trollmashta
I love everyone
I think the results would be interesting, but ultimatly JK would probably take the cake.
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JonKatz's User Info
He posts a lot more then you... And It wasn't exactly hard to find his user info ether... it amazes me how stupid people can be sometimes.
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2) Given that a number of people here seem to think that they could do your job better than you with no hands, no eyes, and a pen with no ink, what does it take to get where you are? i.e. Where should aspiring writers (in this genre) start, where does the path begin (or where did it for you) and what are the right turns to take?
Yes Jon, please tell us so we can avoid doing it. Most of the longer posts on slashdot are more concise and clear then your writing already.
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Search IMDB for William Gibson. You'll see that there are two listed. One wrote really gay(as in stupid, not homosexual) sitcoms and miniseries for TV. The other wrote really sweet sci-fi.
You'll note that there is a similar situation with "jon/john Katz"
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I don't know of a situation in which it would make the sentence ambiguous to use "it's" if both meanings had the '.
It's it's is it?
Well, I don't know if that's really that ambiguous.
I used to have a lot of trouble with that, but then I read a slashdot post in a discussion about whether it was relevant or not.
An easy way to remember is that there are other possessives that don't us an apostrophe, such as 'mine', your, and 'their'. Just classify 'its' with those.
Not that I care or anything. To be honest, I never even see punctuation errors in other people work, unless it seriously alters the meaning, or someone points it out.
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ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
you mean like faith?
That wouldn't be like believing in god or anything would it?
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keep in mind this is 'JonKatz.' as opposed the JonKatz we all know and, um, love
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ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I imagine that you [delmoi] must dislike me, based on your response to my "Bruce Perens."
No, I don't dislike you. I just thought that "Bruce Penis" was a funneyer takeoff. What would make you think I disliked you? I like a good troll as much as the next guy.
I think people here take this forum a little too seriously
I don't take this forum seriously at all. Other people do, and I honestly do belive that the reason people dislike sig11 is beacuse there jelous of the fact that he get's modded up so often. But, whatever
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By the "real" Bruce Perens no less. He posted about it, a while ago. I think in the Open Source Closed Words thread a few days ago. Bruce said that rob thought it would be 'unethical' to strip the account (I'm not sure I agree with that or not). Anyway, just keep an eye out for the dot, and hope no one registers Bruce Perens :)
:P
A while ago, someone registerd "Bruce Penis" I thought that was a lot funnier
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Jon, you're often unafraid to discuss any subject at all--even technical subjects with which you are unfamiliar. Do you think it is possible to intelligently discuss the posssibilities of something, without actually understanding that thing?
Also, when approached by members of the scientific community, offering to help familiarize you with one of these subjects (and I believe I have this email archived, if you'd like to see it), why do you refuse this education? These grad students DID offer to pay your air fare--and you're a successful author, far more able to afford that ticket than they.
Uh, Rod, you wrote for Anti-online--a publication which is obvious to even the untrained eye to be full of half-truths, misrepresentations and outright lies. Vransewhatever is using that little web page (ezine? ezine? you make it sound like you wrote for Salon, or slate, or Nerve) to run a personal vendetta against anyone and everyone he doesn't like. His star correspondent, Caroline Meinel (sp?) had a hysterical tantrum at defcon last year...
Katz writing for slashdot is different: it's someone writing long-winded, half-considered (if that much) editorials on subjects he doesn't really understand--and has no interest in understanding. And he's doing it for a relatively respectable website.
I did not mean for my comment to be as much of a flame towards you as it came out to be. I should have stated that I can only assume you wrote for antionline in good faith, and were later dissappointed by the actions of the others associated with it. I can only apologize, and say that while I meant to turn it against the bad guys at AO, I also vented at you--and I did that quite wrongly.
I wondered if you were the gent I saw on Matt's fine FreeBSD machine... I've been there since...oh, early '95, I think. Maybe '96. Time flies.
Yeah, I remember the move of sasami up to the DC area... we've probably got accounts of about equal age...
Someone's got wayyyyy too much time on their hands. But, uh, funny. :)
--
I see no reason to believe in the various deities that mankind has come up with over the years.
how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
A heckofa lot, thanks to The Secular Web. But that's not really relevant. I don't need a proof of atheism, I need a proof that some deity exists, and I haven't been given one yet.
how do I know there isn't a God?
I don't know that, and anyone who thinks they do is being absurd. AFAIK there's no decent proof that deities can't/don't exist.
how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
Seeing as how I'm an atheist and therefore don't have a "belief system", I'd say none. My parents are deists or agnostic depending on their moods. In other words it's not a big issue for them.
[...] science/atheism is a faith as well.
OK, here's the problem. You seem to think that atheists believe things. You're mistaken: we lack certain beliefs. We don't run around claiming "God doesn't exist, nya nya!!", we just say "prove it and we'll believe it."
We don't know what happened before the big bang (science can't answer that yet) [...]
If you understand that science doesn't have all the answers than why do you insist that it is a faith? (let's try to keep discussion of science separate from theism/atheism, BTW)
[...]and our basis of belief is pretty close to the possibility of a God (for He could have just started it all off with the big bang, and left us on our own.
So if it's "possible" then it's reasonable to believe it? I'm sorry, I just don't think like that.
why do you want to be right so badly?
Look in the mirror pal.
The only thing we want so badly is a proof that a deity exists.
-lev (an atheist)
I don't believe you.
One of my biggest issues as a geek and professional computer worker is the weight placed on university degrees (especially CS degrees) as opposed to the weight placed on experience. It's an age old argument.
In our wacky culture (I almost said "wacky little culture", but it's huge these days), what do you think is the most important aspect of a well rounded life: education through books or education through experience? No easy answers here: let's be unrealistic and say you get one or the other but not both.
Along the same lines, in an era of synthetic realities (where all information is filtered through the likes of TV and alashdot) what do you recommend for young geeks to help them get the most out of the world and their lives? How does technology help and / or hinder this?
LOL - for some reason this troll's post is a good followup to the insanity that has erupted on this katzian thread
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
Jon, while it is clear from your writings that you feel an affinity with the geek/nerd, you seem to have no real skill in technical matters (ie your first brush will Linux).
So my question is: what do you consider your greatest achievement in terms of things considered as "geeky"? Did you ace advanced calculus as a high school freshman? Built a model rocket that reached the stratosphere? Extracted radioactive material from common household products? Wrote a prime number generator using only 5 lines of code?
yep. nice dot.
+&x
no, I just hate to be associated with such assholes. I got the score because I regularly sleep with moderators, you should try it, some of them are quite large.
(BTW, did you have to scroll through 5 pages of crap when you got here to get some content? Those were the idiots and have since been flamed, so I figure they'll stop now. First time I've been called a "ponce" though...hehe, after looking it up my earlier comment isn't so funny now. How's the weather in jolly ole England?)
+&x
As to your idea of multiple successive universes, that is certainly within the bounds of possibility, but since any given universe would not be observable from within another one and they aredivided by discontinuities (singularities), one cannot possibly have an effect on another.
/.
That doesn't matter though. Having an effect on one another is immaterial. What I am getting at is that one way or another 1) both time and space are infinite, 2) chaos happens, and 3) eventually two people will discuss it on
I just don't see a need to cowtow to an unprovable supernatural being and his earthly servants, given those circumstances.
Dunno where the elephants, turtle, and frisbees come in, but to each to his own.:-) I just like talking about it, later.
+&x
Times not infinite, eh? When does it end? Explain that. Same thing for space. Actually the data (the whole flat universe thing) seems to suggest that space IS infinite, i.e. there is always another horizon.
The only relation it bears to the real world in is its creation, this is a religion thread after all, eh?
+&x
If the universe turns out to be flat, then time will indeed be infinite, but not to any real-world frame of reference.
;)
By "real world" frame of reference, I assume you mean someone exterior to the whole thing observing it?
So yes, to "God" space and time are finite, but not for us. We can't get outside of reality.
Clear up that "real world" bit for me, and I can go further...
See, Katz threads *can* be interesting (if constantly rehashed
+&x
(sorry for all the idiots, I'd hope you've gotten use to it by now, but stupidity and immaturity can sometimes be difficult to ignore)
Two questions:
1) As a techno-author where do you think we're headed with this whole Internet thing? Give me 20 years down the road, society, commerce, privacy, entertainment, just pick an area and tell me what you think.
2) Given that a number of people here seem to think that they could do your job better than you with no hands, no eyes, and a pen with no ink, what does it take to get where you are? i.e. Where should aspiring writers (in this genre) start, where does the path begin (or where did it for you) and what are the right turns to take?
Thanks, now stop using the phrase "geeks, programmers, and nerds" so much, it gets annoying. I prefer the term "typer" but since I made it up last week not many people are using it...
+&x
Because we let him.
Jon,
In reading the articles that you have written I have noticed that your "style" causes you to take a very long time to come to a conclusion (point) which is somewhat frustrating for your readers. Once you do get your point across I'm disappointed, as generally it seemed that you should have reached that conclusion pages ago.
The question:
Is this your journalistic "style" at work or is this the God's-honest truth of how you deal with all of your day-to-day problems and questions?
Thanks,
Jack
Hi,
/. alot. Your point of view is different from most readers and that is good. I hope the everpresent flames don't bother you too much ;)
first, let me say that I like your features at
My question:
You used to write for Hotwired, a site I often visited in the past (it's been a long time since I've been there). Why did you leave? How do you feel the site has developed in recent times (personnaly I think it's gone down, like Wired mag... I miss the Netizen and similar columns)
I strongly believe that trying to be clever is detrimental to your health. -- Linus Torvalds
While "strong" atheism ("I am certain that there is not a God") is indeed a faith, "weak" atheism (also known as agnosticism) is not, nor is the use of the scientific method. I do not believe in a God because I have not (yet?) seen sufficient evidence. I think poorly of people who believe in things without evidence.
;)
Then again, I barely believe in Delaware.
Seriously, it seems to me that Katz is criticizing not Christians per se, but rather the general class of people who use their faith to justify hating and harming others. Unfortunately, if the last few decades' elections are any evidence, most Americans to whom Christianity is important seem to be of that sort.
I second this question. I have my filter set to allow Katz articles to be shown, but I never read them. I'll glance through the comments posted to the article after it has been up a day or two just to see if there are any interesting threads. But I've given up on reading his articles directly as it just seems to be a regurgitation of previous discussions, along with a few plugs for his latest book.
Hey Rob. I know this is more than one questions - please pick whichever you believe is most relevant.
Mr Katz,
Rob Malda fairly correctly describes you as the most hated author on Slashdot. Whilst many of us seem to feel that you're simply looking at the issues you're writing about from an overblow point of view, seeing 'technical milestones of incredibly important significance', some of the posters on Slashdot have a particular peeve. Namely your qualifications.
Slashdot.org is a very technical forum - many of the posters on here simply read it because they feel it best sums up technical events in the Real World. However, your expertise seems to be rudimentary, at best. Linux, the prodigal child of the Slashdot community, proved to be quite a problem, as you struggled with it for quite a while, even writing articles about the difficulties you had. Many of us felt that you wrote those articles so you become more accepted by the crowd, and to show that you aren't just a Windows techie. Now, after quite an intro, here're the questions:
Thanks, and apologies for the length and number of questions. Just pick one.
Alex T-B
I do not know which of Paul's letters you were thinking of, but as a Christian, I think the definition from Hebrews 1:11 is more accurate:
(accurate in the sense that this is what Christians mean when they use the word faith; there are of course other possible definitions)
``Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.''
I believe that in some sense, all good things come from the Lord, including reason. But there are some times when reason just doesn't apply, when I deal with `what we do not see' (preceive with the senses). That is why Paul writes all kinds of upsetting things like ``Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?'' or why Isiah records things like ``the intelligence of the inteligent I will frustrate'' as the words of God.
I need faith to understand spiritual issues like how to have peace in my soul, or why suffering exists in our world. All the theological reasoning in the world couldn't bring me to that place without faith.
Faith isn't an asset in dealing with technology, it's an asset in dealing with life.
Why?
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
As someone whose always strived against stereotypes and human-made barriers, I wonder why Jon (and others) feel they have to provide an intellectual-snobbery based tribalism amongst otherwise open-minded people?
Is he so arrogant that he thinks he perceives himself so superior to others as to be able to "think" for them? How does he justify his "holier-than-thou" attitude?
He may be an icon for some of the teen angst ridden Slashdotters but to me he's just an egomaniac who gets a kick out of having socially-inept children pouring their petty frustrations at him.
"Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for me and my monkey" - The Beatles "If you're not part of the solution, you'
Who knows whether Katz really believes his articles actually contribute anything by way of fresh opinion; my take on it is that that is not really important to him. He's using Slashdot for self publicity and helping to sell his books, and it's a symbiotic relationship since his articles usually attract huge numbers if readers/responses, which is what a commercial site wants/needs.
The reason I dislike Katz' articles myself isn't because of his flakey opinions, but rather because I don't think there's anything genuine about them. His goal is publicity, and he achieves this by picking what he knows are hot topics, and then taking hype-ridden extremist flamebaity positions/opinions on them that he knows most slashdotters will feel compelled to respond to.
What the hell. :-)
.. more power to you. But personally, I need a little bit more than that. The bottom line is that if there is no evidence, or no good reason to believe that something is true, then belief should be withheld until such time that the belief is justified. In my experience, no religion (either past or present) has held up to this standard. Therefore .. no religion. :-)
.. I just went along with it all because I thought it was pretty harmless and some of it was fun (i.e., roller skating trips and mountain hikes.) Hell, I was even confirmed in my church. But as I look back on those days, it's becoming clearer to me that we all just considered that stuff meaningless rituals. Confirmation: a rite of passage where relatives give you lots of money. Very few of the other people I was confirmed with are "regular churchgoers." In fact, most are agnostic if not "outright atheist." The point I'm trying to make is that I was raised with a fair amount of religion in the background, but I was surrounded by friends and parents who never really took much of it very seriously.
:-)
1. why am I an atheist?
Why not? I don't believe in deluding myself, and I think it's logically wrong to believe in something simply because you want it to be true. I don't fault people for having faith that when they die they will have eternal life in Paradise with some omnipotent creator that loves them all very much. Why not believe that? It's comforting. If that trips your trigger
2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
I'll have to agree with the other guy on this one. What are the canonical "scriptures" of atheism? What proofs do you believe are associated with atheism?
3. how do I know there isn't a God?
I don't. Obviously, there is no way to disprove the existence of a surpreme being that does not manifest itself in any observable way anywhere in the universe. So while there is no way to disprove the existence of any arbitrary god (for example, the Christian god Yahweh), there is also no way to disprove the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn that will impale me on its horn if I don't listen to a Winger album once a week. In other words, I fully admit that both Yahweh and the IPU are possibilities, but I do not for one minute entertain the notion that either of them actually exists.
4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
I was raised in a Lutheran home, and was brought to Sunday School and the whole nine yards for many years. But the truth is that I stopped believing in Yahweh shortly after I stopped believing in Santa Claus, for similar reasons. However, most of my "moral upbringing" was nonreligious in nature. Aside from Sunday mornings, my parents didn't even really mention God at all. There was, of course, bedtime prayers and table prayers, but I always considered those to be insignificant rote memorization and nothing else. Most of my morality and ethics comes from the Golden Rule, which was reinforced by my parents. The Golden Rule, as you know, is notorious for not mentioning "God" or "Jesus" at all.
I never told my parents that I didn't believe in any of the church stuff
why do you want to be right so badly?
It's not about wanting to be anything. I am what I am because I think it's right. If I thought it was right to be a foaming-at-the-mouth, Bible-thumping fundamentalist Baptist, I would be a foaming-at-the-mouth, Bible-thumping fundamentalist Baptist. I think it's right to live life to the fullest, to not delude oneself, to do everything in your power to make things here on Earth a little bit more like heaven, because this is as close to heaven as we're ever going to get. Get out! Have fun! Enjoy life! Make contributions! Develop relationships! This is the only shot we get at it, and despite what many folks will tell you, that does not mean you must live a meaningless life of despair. No atheist that I know does.
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
If there's any story that's about to be taken of /. because of total useless-ness in the comments it's probably this one. I have never seen so much off-topic and trolling crap.
Obviously this is related to the hate people feel when the name Jon Katz is dropped.
My question for Jon: To someone that really does not know much about you, can you explain what it is that you do that causes people to get so emotional?
It must bother you that so many people seem to only express anger without talking about 'content'. For this very reason it is very hard to understand for people like me what the hell is going on...
Breace.
I am serious too. When I read other postings for interview questions, I see lots of important questions, ranking high and what not. The highest post that I have seen so far is only 3 in your case, yet there are more than 250 questions already. Of these, 99% are telling you of how bad a person you, of how you suck, and what not. Since slashdot is a community thingy, do you think it will be in the best interest of the slashdot community if you quit? If you decide to stay, will you make any effort to improve yourself and your relationship with the community? Prior to slashdot have you been such a controversial person? Do you always get into arguments and such? Do you feel happy, sad or indifferent regarding how you are viewed upon in this community?
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
I'm still trying to understand. I actually really enjoyed the hellmouth series, and I always stuck up for you back when Wired was halfway worth reading. Then you write some whining, petulant, article about being flamed. You raised the bar when you came here, slashdot was all about disecting stories for glossed over points, digging down and finding the "bullshit" quotient, that's why you read slashdot instead of just swallowing press releases and news stories. So as entertaining as it was tearing apart your stories (and you should have just looked at the attention you drew and felt satisfied) you get upset and look like some spoiled brat using you're ability to submit stories to inflict you're tale of how deeply wounded you were by a bunch of ac's saying "katz sux0rs" At this point, I have to wonder if you're trolling to.
if that is really what you meant -- i took it to mean that the person who believes in it classifies it as such -- then it's just as dumb as before, but now because it's so patently obvious.
i have read the new testament. christianity is a pile of bullshit created to help morons live their lives the way they are supposed to in the first place. it's to give you a warm little blanket to wrap around yourself so you don't have to face the harsh reality that we really have no fucking clue how we got here or what we're doing here.
as for respecting people in the KKK,..
They're human-beings and I believe they are making a mistake. They've been taught to hate, and they've collapsed into a depressing abyss that they needs help from escaping. Nobody is inherently hateful, they must learn it.
yes, they are making/have made a mistake; they're ignorant, racist, red-neck, dumbfucks. maybe there are some little kids who've been brought up in the KKK but for the most part, the retards in it are adults. they are responsible for their own horrible attitude. it's very sad that you try to make excuses for it.
children "learn" hate, but once you're an adult, there is no excuse. there's no force keeping you a racist asshole, you can choose. especially in our society where all outside pressure is against it.
i suggest you give up, you're going to lose this argument. i've studied these things a lot more than you have.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
>What makes you think that you can speak for those of us who are?
He's not speaking for us. He's not even speaking *to* us. He's just speaking *about* us from a diferent perspective (aint it nice that we can get more than one viewpoint here..)
He's never said that he's our banner. He's doing what he does best, being a journalist, looking at the big (much bigger than our litle world) picture and how we fit in it. As to why, he's made it quite clear on many ocasions that our mind-set fascinates him. Why this, I don't know, until I was 12 I thought everyone thought like me...
The view he presents is actually very much in depth, just simply not technical. The depths he pursues are of a social-psicological perspective and thus, quite out of the bounds of our usual interests. *that's* usually why some many of us hate him, he speaks lot about what seems to be nothing
...
Yes, I know I ramble and my spelling isn't quite up to scratch. If you wish to complain,
His audience is *not* meant be a lay audience, if by lay you mean comon, average, urbanite person.
He's simply speaking about something that most of us usually ignore: The social repercussions/implications of the stories surrounding our litle (closed & closed-minded) world.
For most of us this is a perspective which is as difficult to understand as a race condition in a dev kernel would be to a baby-sitter.
It does not mean that it's superficial simply if it does not mention *every friggin technical detail* and instead has a lot of what seems to be white-noise but is actually another mind-set altogether.
As for audiences, I *know* I'm not the only one interested in his articles, and I've been coming here since this was "chips and dips". I've never undersood why so much noise about seing those 50 or so characters in the index page....
Most of his detractors seem to be obssessed with self-censorship (by the way, what do *you* think about "net-nanny" the self-censoring software where YOU choose what you want to censor from your own eyes?)
...
Yes, I know I ramble and my spelling isn't quite up to scratch. If you wish to complain,
Hehe... d'oh. That's actually a rather poignant question. Kinda scary that life on /. has degraded to the point where an author can be considered a troll... I hadn't considered it this way before, but... huh... makes you stop and think for a minute (tough for me some days 8^)
/.? I can just see things ater an op-ed political piece... they have them other places, and it isn't pretty... most of the traffic on Katz stories here seems to be due to the fact that is is actually 'authoring' a piece, and not just posting a submission of news. Opinion is always challenged, and challenged violently.
/. : Let's not go there 8^)
It <I>does</I> provoke the predictable responses:
"Wow, that's the most true thing I've ever read!"
"Wow, that's the biggest load of crap I've ever read"
"It's because he can figure things out"
"It's because he's a total jerk with no talent"
"Shut up, you!"
"Go to Hell, you #@$&^@&*!!!"
etc...
I must say that I have contributed (as have most here) to this effect - but in some sense, and even moderately controversial topic provokes this response... he is just more controversial than most articles (e.g. "nano-tech is cool" or "The new release of [whatever] is out!"). This is multiplied by the fact that the majority of tech-savvy people have strong opinions on just about any issue, and many people think they knlow everything and feel the need to share [guilty as charged, your honor].
If ZDNet had a better talkback/feedback section than they do, I'm sure that would be even more saturated with the mindless drivel there (and probably eventually Natalie and Don Knotts). In fact, wouldn't the NY Times have the same "problem" if the online version gave a nice, threaded reply mechanism like
Do I care for his work: generally not.
Do I think he trolls (not that you asked me): Not really.
Do I think that he belongs on
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Here's something for you to ponder:
We're all individuals here.
Not all of as:
- Play video games or role-playing games
- Were abused in high school
- Feel a sense of "community" with other "geeks"
- Have trouble with women
- Give a shit about the "freedom" of the "Open Source Community"- to some of us, Free Code is just code we can fix and reuse.
Why do you feel the need to define "geeks" as a group? Does it satisfy your need to belong? Are you only 13 inside?
Am I the only person who finds it insulting when Jon Katz pigeon-holes people? It's like he based his entire career on dividing people into little groups. Maybe it makes writing easier, like a book report in Grade 5. Generalize, Summarize...
Hands in my pocket
John represents to the /. readers the sensitive, left wing, vulnerable side of geekiness. Surprisingly right wing, insensitive, flame-tossers aren't too fond of him.
/. as a community.
/. content is focussed primarily at heterosexual male geeks. Do you think that /. adequately serves female and queer geeks? If not, will it ever?
As a bisexual geek girl, John Katz is a good reminder to me that there are nice geek boys out there, like the nice geek boys I'm friends with in real life. This helps me feel able to relate to
Ok time for the requisite question:
I'm a bisexual geek girl. It seems to me that
Truffle
---
I support spreading santorum
1. why am I an atheist?
Basic set theory. Set C = Christians, set M = Muslims, etc. Sets are mutually exclusive. I have never joined any of these sets. The set {C' (union) M'} has been given the name 'Atheism'.
2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
None. How much research have you done into my theory that there is a whole other continent in the middle of the Pacific called Fooglewop? People who don't believe that theory are called Kwippiboppilans. Ask yourself...
1. why am I a Kwippiboppilan?
...etc.
3. how do I know there isn't a God?
I don't.
Even if there is, how do you extrapolate that you should worship 'him', and that 'he' expects {this particular set of values} from you?
4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
My parents have never made any statements either way about the existence or non-existence of a god, or the validity of any religion.
Yours sincerely,
Martin Ling
ME TOO, MAN!!! I can't believe this fucking bullshit! I checked the box, too, and yet, here is this story, and it's Rob's fault that I clicked on "Read More", read it with my own eyes, went down and typed in a whole message myself and clicked "Submit" and participated in the discussion! I can't believe this! It's everybody else's fault for making me click on and read this story! I'm a fucking zombie and can't avoid the story by myself, so I need a whole new Slashbox to do it for me because I'm mentally retarded! SHIT!!! Someone wipe my ass for me...
Not trying to spoil the book for anyone but, Jon, I gotta ask: What are Jesse and Eric up to now?
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
here's my question for you jon:
how do you see the industry of journalism responding to facilities like slashdot which are essentially user driven? how will journalists get paid or support themselves if the audience does almost all of the work for them?
it would appear that it is the editor, and not the journalist, who is empowered by this configuration of hypermedia. what do you think about the traditional roles that have defined journalism, and the related industry, that exists because of said roles?
I'm not an atheist as such. I'm an agnostic (though I do sort of like some of the budhist philosophies...)
However, even if you do believe in God or whatever, I fail to understand what purpose religion serves in your life. Why should you submit to religious dogma rather than considering things for yourself? What makes the priest of your religion qualified (ie better than you) to instruct you in morality? Strange that the higher up you go in religeous hierarchies, the better the practitioners get paid - if they were true adherents, it would be the other way around. Another thing is that most religions are mutually exclusive.
Why am I not religeous? When I was a kid, I did believe in God. But gradually I saw the contradictions in the bible (and between different religions). Actually, I remember the moment when I stopped believing in God - it was in a religous studies lesson, ironically. We were learning about different faiths and I realised that there were far more non-Christians in the world than Christians.
Also, old questions like "we don't know what happened before the big bang" was answered a long time ago - there was no "before". Time began at the big bang. If religeous slashdotters wanted to point to religion they'd be better off debating things like the way consciousness is related to the structure of the universe (yeah, I read you're not an atheist; this is an "open letter")
Jon, First off, let me compliment you on writing what are consistently the most talked about items here on slashdot. I appreciate your articles and find them challenging. What has specifically interested me about your writing is its increasingly anti-corporatist focus. Do you feel that voicing strong anti-corporatist sentiments in your writing has ever had a negative impact on your marketability (in effect, have you ever experienced "corporate censorship")?
Think Different
I mean, whenever someone besides you and your masters at AndoverVAslashdot do very well, you have a fit. Example: when a company that began in the basement of a house just a few years ago (AOL) recently took over a major media company (Time/Warner) you had an absolute fit. But, when VA swallows up AndoverSlashdot there are no tears.
The question: what the hell is so wrong with organizations that become successful? (please do not be hypocritical in your answer).
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
My question, and it's one I've read in many reply posts to various threads Jon's done, is:
...
Why must you tie everything to the inherent superiority of geekdom?
We really want to know. I've read posts about the WTO and Seattle (where I live, where people I know have been on both sides), and many other topics and it seems like Jon's trying to defend his way of life or something.
The other question would be:
Why do you post threads longer than one screen?
This has been a violation of one of the cardinal rules of threads and posts since back in my original Net days of the 80s. It's like a big "Flame On" sign to most posters on the Net. The nature of the medium is that a good discussion thread must be condensed down to 2-3 paragraphs. If more must be said, it is in followup posts within the thread, as a way of extending the discussion. It's not a magazine article
Will in Seattle
And are they flame retardant?
Will in Seattle
As a serious journalist, I'm sure that you try and research your articles before posting them to Slashdot. However, it seems to me that there is a lack of knowledge that a good ole' fashioned spat of RTFM'in would fix. My question is: how often do you RTFM, and to what depth do you go in said manual (especially when not writing an op-ed piece)?
And is Laura your animated receptionist is as hot as she sounds?
And what's up with Ben?
Sincerely,
George
I particularly noticed this in your story, "Geeks" in Rolling Stone awhile back. I liked how you were a fly on the wall rather than a fly in the ointment...and in the last few paragraphs subtlely introduced yourself into the story when one of the kids says he doesn't think he has three plates. That was a very masterful piece.
I don't care too much when you write about current topics, but prefer it when you are observing. I would compare the Geeks article to something like
"Charlie Simpson's Apocolypse" by Joe Eszterhas (yeah, you read that right! He wrote excellent articles before he became a smut-o-rama screenwriter)
A lot of the reaction to your post smacks to me of outraged elitism.
Are you trying to put the hacker/geek/nerd communitiy into context for the newbies here on /. and/or just attempting to define the culture?
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
While the Jon Katz program usually spews out unintelligent garbage, it is by far leaps and bounds above similar programs written in the 80s. The opportunity for Slashdot readers to finally be able to ask interview questions to the Jon Katz AI program is pretty damn neat! I'm wondering how it will parse my question and what kind of response it will give.
So here goes. "Can we get the source to this program?" It'd be neat to code fork it and have everyones' rev get into a senseless argument with each other.
According to his user page, he posts quite a bit. I think the real issue is that he doesn't post until after his articles get shoved back into the "older stuff" box, and that his posts aren't as meaty as the articles themselves, contrary to most of Slashdot. Consider this a vote for "less article, more comment."
What were you like as a teenager? What group of kids did you hang out with? What were your feelings about geeks/nerds at that age?
I'll probably be checking off the little "don't want to read any more of this author" stuff for Mr. Katz in the near future, just because I value my bandwidth.
Having said that, here's my question: You've said yourself that you are not a technical person. What makes you think that you can speak for those of us who are?
(That isn't necessarily a flame, although I realize it sounds hostile. I'm merely curious and asking for qualifications.)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
I could refer any of you who bring up religion to the treatise "Magic without Tears" by Aleister Crowley- early on he defines the universe and the concept that the answer to the riddle is 0 = 2. The belief that some "god" created the universe is obviously a false one, as something would have to have brought about the existance of god as well- and as we all know, to question god is Blasphemy, which covers everyone's tracks and gets them out of explaining what is in fact a convenient delusion.
Christians in general- not saying that anyone here represents the general religious community- are narrowminded in their steadfast belief in this concept. Not only that, but most chrisitan sects are evangelical in nature, with missionaries hell-bent on screwing up so-called "godless" cultures that were just fine before their close-minded self-centered evangelicism intervened.
I haven't read much Katz, but I can see where he's coming from if he's alleged to rail on religion- anyone who can't accept "it just IS. Live with it." as an excuse would be foolish to accept the concept of One God creating the universe. Likewise, it is foolish people that have a habit of putting the stomp on geeks, setting trends, wearing suits, and being generally "pop culture" - the people we have to clean up after and kindly inform that the CDROM drive is "NOT a drink tray, thank you" are the ones who refuse to question "why" and go for the god thing in the first place. Willing ignorance.
Who in their right mind would advocate this? I'll side with Katz in this argument, naturally [assuming these allagations are correct].
While I do not suppose to get in the way of anyone's belief systems, I do wish to potentially nullify the "do YOU believe in god?" and "you're going to hell" and "ATHEIST!" arguments:
In order to "go to hell", one must "believe" in a devil- and god. Since I recognize the faallacy of the mythos- it's your lie, tell it any way you want.
In order to be an Atheist, one must believe in no "spuernatural" or "supernormal" [sic] systems. These concepts are patently obvious, from the ground up- karma, "coincidence", "luck"... all intangible forces that follow abstracted science. There is more to Reality than humanity-- and there is no God but man [you ARE the center of your own universe, no? Where does it go when you blink? ] You define reality on your own terms based from your own experience.
Geeks like to figure things out- it would seem that a "religious" geek has missed one of the critical insites of the underlying scientific nature of reality. I gather that Katz has no appreciation for religion- an outdated, hopelessly confused system that has no bearing but spiritual oppression.
He can lamb-baste it all he wants: I'm behind him a hundred percent.
Hi John.
My name is speek.
There's something I've been wondering about for a while now.
I'm going to ask that question here; now.
Here it comes.
Why do you always write in one-sentence paragraphs?
I have one other question, as well.
Can you take a joke?
:-)
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
What's your Karma?
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
Have you given thought to adapting your writings to the feedback that slashdot is implicitly giving you? In other words, have you thought about writing your editorials with the explicit purpose of doing nothing but starting a discussion on some topic? Not pretending to be knowledgable, or to hold some particular view as good/bad, or asserting questionable "facts", or with any sense of righteous indignation, etc, etc. Would you simplify your writings to this level and be something slashdot might appreciate more?
/. is that it appears that you simply are a reader of slashdot yourself, and that maybe once a week, you sit down and write an editorial that was inspired by having read a slashdot article of particular interest. For instance, with all the DeCSS stuff here on slashdot, it was very predictable that you were going to write an editorial about the MPAA and DeCSS, and that your comments were going to be a Katz summary of what had already been said on Slashdot.
/. community to come out and play. Yet, the way you write indicates you view your articles as having a grander place on slashdot than simply this. This gives offense and makes you a target of trolling, more so than you would be.
Now I'm going to ramble to explain my question....
I think what many people object to about your writings on
This annoys many because a)it gives you a greater voice than anyone else on slashdot and b)most feel you don't qualify for the position of slashdot summarizer because you're not a technical person (not that there's anything wrong with that!)
a) is the main point here, so let me go on - you don't research stories like a normal journalist. You write your impression and your opinion. There are times in many a slashdotter's life when they wish they could write up their opinion and submit it to slashdot, and get it automatically posted as a top-level article. But they can't. You can. Therefore, though in reality you're little more than an over-eager slashdot reader, you have this inside track that allows you to vent your views and get it published.
But, you're not informative, nor particularly insightful (ie you don't seem to offer anything more than that other slashdot reader who got worked up, wrote up an opinion piece, and submitted it to slashdot). You stir up trouble, which is probably the point. After all, I, unlike many outspoken slashdotters, enjoy you're articles - because of the discussion they provoke (and I don't mean the trolls!). Some of the best discussion are definitely provoked by your articles.
However, your article itself is of limited value in terms of insight offered, wit, or new facts uncovered. Your value is in soliciting the great varieties of opinions that exist in the
So, are you willing to change for the sake of the slashdot community?
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
the tone of the majority of articles has been one of explanation and questioning.
You do not put forth the foundational beliefs and value system used as a basis
for your interactions with the world you describe. Could you detail some of your
"Ten Commandments" that you hold to "self-evident"?
Knowing where "Jon Katz" is "coming from" would help
the person behind the mask that they are killfiling.
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
Given the above definition, and given that you often state that the point of your articles is to trigger a reaction from the Slashdot community, which it often does in a predictable way, my question is: what do you think sets you apart from the common troll, aside from exposure and fame?
First question should be What criteria guide ... not guides.
What criteria guides you in your choice of subjects for the articles
you write here on Slashdot? Which political and cultural views do you
find sympathetic on Slashdot, and which, if any, do you have problems
with?
What could I, personally, pay you to leave Andover.net? Name a figure. I'm not made of money, but I'd take a night job at Blockbuster and send you my check from it, so long as you stop writing for Slashdot.
Would you feel some hack-nerd-geek empathy were you to impose Mitnick's sentence on yourself, i.e. no computers for a very long time? Do you have the courage to do that? Do you have the callousness not to?
Oh, yes, and one more... Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
Carefree highway, let me slip away on you.
What is it that makes you special enough to be posting articles on Slashdot? For instance, why not Jerry Pournelle, who's been writing about technology since forever? Why not Signal11, who's probably got a karma of 5000 now? Why not a random Slashdot geek, who could probably write something more interesting than an extended rant about "please die" (is that any stronger of an insult than "fuck you" is? I don't think so.)
In short, why are we assaulted with you and your columns everywhere we turn, even after turning you off in our preferences? Can't you just post short, concise followups to stories already submitted to Slashdot, like the rest of us?
year 2k:
A. Millennium
B. Millenium
C. Milenium
D. Milennium
thanks -
_jthm
Jon,
OK, so you extoll the virtues of geek pride, but at the same time, you often deride certain types of techno-facinations.
So my question is, do you think that we'd all be better or worse off if everyone got a little geekier? Certainly, there would be an upside -- non-literate windows users might start to think again about how they relate to their pcs, we'd get a little more respect, and maybe things would get done more efficiently with fewer suits around.
But maybe things would get worse: should things technical be our primary focus? Do we need suits? I don't like them either, but I sure as hell don't to have to do the boring crap they do, either. Does the element which finds the workings of things dull and tough, who just wants to be the *user*, play an important role in society, or would be better off if we were all like us?
Certainly, this would decimate the insider-outsider aspect of geek cutlre. But what else do you think it would do? Do you want it? Is it even possible?
god is just pretend.
- Something you read, or see, or are just thinking about hits you like a bolt of lightning, and you just have to say something. Having written it down, you decide to submit it.
- You sit at your terminal thinking "What am I going to write about today?". After an hour or two of this, you think of something, and write.
The reason I ask is that it is my suspicion that any essay written (whether by you or someone else) in the second matter is almost never worth reading.The cake is a pie
The cake is a pie
Hmm, okay. I wasn't going to ask you any questions, because I don't really see a point, because I came late, but I'll do it anyway.
I ask this because I find your writing stle very rough and slapdash. While I read your articles when I started here, I find myself often passing over them, looking for more, shall I say, meaty topics. Your grammar leaves something to be desired, as does mine (and spelling too), but I'm not in the position that you are in. You often speak in abstracts and split metaphors. I don't know if this is lack of talent or trained behavior from journalism or whatever.
As a writer and, more importantly, as a READER, I find that your work could use a lot of improvement, not just in content but in style as well.
The more time I spend writing anything (stories, poetry, non-fiction), the more I realize that other people are key here, especially when you're trying to communicate ideas, like you are. Which, incidently, I don't think you have the right audience here.
So, this is (these are) my question(s):
How much time and effort do you put into your essays? Are you the last person who reads it before it's posted here? If so, are you aware at how irresponsible that is?
Thank you for your time.
Dan
Belee dat
Do you find being seen as a web journalist rather than a print journalist is a hinderance to the work?
Print journalists have the backing of a name and a press pass. Web journalists often are not seen as "real" writers. Have you ever had problems arranging an interview beacuse of this?
I've noticed, since I started hitting /. about a year ago, a recent tendency toward effluvia, not so much in the trolls/Nat Portman stuff, but in the stories that are getting over the wire. Movie reviews? An apparent obsession with the Star Wars, Episode I DVD? Why?
/. seems to be creeping downward somewhat of late. I'd be interested in Mr. Katz's opinion, both of whether I'm right, and what effects the curse of popularity may have on /..
Similarly, the opportunity to ask questions of Mr. Katz could be interpreted as relatively shameless plugging of a new novel, which I didn't think this site was about. If I wanted commercially tainted reporting, I could just hit Ziff-Davis' site.
While the trolls can't be kept at bay without ending anonymous posting, the signal to noise ratio for which I value
Thanks.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Do you ever bother to verify the technical points in your articles or do you just go with what you believe to be true without any supporting evidence?
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
There could have been a god who created the universe "after" you posted that comment. People seem to think that the universe started at the big bang because that is where science points right now, but a god could have made the universe in a state(such as the current state of the universe) that leads science to point to a big bang type deal. I think Steven Hawking points this out in _A Brief History of Time_.
This was a little off topic, but for the record I am agnostic(leaning towards atheism), and have thought about it considerably. I don't know there is not a god(aka agnosticism). The rest of my family(aside from one brother) is Catholic.
I don't want to hear that the unpopular and misunderstood should all band together against repression... yada yada yada. There is a difference between being misunderstood due to an interest (obsession?) with math, science, and computer programming that the unwashed masses have no interest in, and being misunderstood due to have little or no writing talent. I was never unpopular in my age group due to being that dweeb in the corner of cafeteria who got pelted with spitballs, I was unpopular in my age group becuase I dropped out of junior high school, took the GED, and went to college 5 years early.
Please, don't tell us that you are qualified to speak on /. because you can "relate". I want to hear a rational explaination on why you write to an audience that you cannot relate to. And don't tell me "alternate viewpoint" either. I go to Slate and Salon for editorial opinions. I come to /. to find little bits of useful data amongst the noise, and JonKatz, hot grits, and Don Knotts only make that harder.
(Score: -1, Thou Hast Lost an Eighth)
Given the fact that many of the complaints aimed at your writing stem from its technical inconsistencies, have you considered having your material peer reviewed for technical accuracy?
They call me the working man. I guess that's what I am.
1) I remember when I first realized religion is BS. Sunday school (jewish) back in 1st or 2nd grade, talking about creation. I asked the teacher where the dinosaurs fit it (since the torah completly ignores them) and she couldn't answer me. I knew dinosaurs existed, I had seen the bones in the museum. Thats when I lost my faith.
2) I don't study antheism, but I have done a lot of reading on religion, gotten into a lot of arguements, and done a lot of thinking on the matter. I always thought it was so obvious, going back to acient greece or rome where their religion was used to explain things like the setting on the sun. It was just a way of answing unanswered questions. Those cultures faded, new cultured developed, with new religions, for the exact same purpose (maybe there was a control element too). However, that culture still exists, basically, and we answered a hell of a lot of the questions the bible tried to answer. And guess what, its really fucking off.
3) I don't know that there is or isn't a god, I think that it is very unlikely, and I think that if there is a god, it is even more unlikely that it is a god as described in the bible, or in any religious doctrine.
4) My parents are jewish, very, very relaxed... they knew they couldn't force religion on me, since I started refusing to go to sunday school in like 3rd grade, because I thought it was stupid. I did get a bar mitzvah though, memorize some shit, get a party, get a bunch of presents... I'd recommend it to anyone.
I would go out on a limb to say that I think most atheists have thought about this stuff... its easier to fall back on religion than atheism, religion is setup so you're not supposed to think about it too much.
You write a lot about being a "geek". This has many connotations, but on /. it is generally used to mean a computer geek, or Linux geek, or programmer geek, something like that. You admit that you are really not that, so where does this geek mentality come from? How would you describe yourself, and what personal experiences have shaped your understanding of the persecuted outsider?
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
to those geeks that are going to argue that religion:
is the opiate of the masses
or
religion has caused more problems than anything else
or
religion requires no thought, and is therefore a blind faith
I suggest you look at your own beliefs, and ask yourself the following questions:
1. why am I an atheist?
2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
3. how do I know there isn't a God?
4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
what I'm trying to show you, is that science/atheism is a faith as well. We don't know what happened before the big bang (science can't answer that yet), and our basis of belief is pretty close to the possibility of a God (for He could have just started it all off with the big bang, and left us on our own.
Many religious people have thought long and hard about the existance of God...while they are the majority (religious people), I would hazard a guess that the same percentage of atheists blindly believe what they do as well...
why do you want to be right so badly?
-lev (an atheist)
Q: What do you think about American Culture?
A: I think it's a good idea.
(adapted from Gandhi)
You seem quite the moron yourself, br4dh4x0r.
Then again, life is full of complete morons like yourself, your a dime a dozen. Have you ever had an intelligent thought in your life? Doubtful.
V.
I'm trying to keep this from sounding like a flame but still ask what I mean here. I should note that I haven't read a lot of Katz. However the few times I have your opinion seems so simple and stark it would seem your almost parodying opinions that you don't believe in. I wonder sometimes if you really believe all the things you write, or if the intent is more to promote discussion?
What happened to your little cartoon show on Comedy Central?
(feel free to rephrase these questions more towards something you can use/respond to relatively easily, just bear in mind the gist of what they are saying)
Do you think that american democracy is shifting from citizens voting in polls to stockholders voting through corporations with their dollars? If so, how does technology affect this shift? How does this affect the open source movement?
What are the repercussions of this shift?
I would like your opinion. I know you get alot of flack for writing to the slashdot audience. But we forget that you are writing an editorial here, not news. We can read cnn for news.
Awhile ago during the whole Jane's thing I brought up a comment about the Slashdot community. I like to see things that way. We are a specific segment of a population united by common interests. (Although opinions certaintly can differ greatly.)
I am aware that I do not run Slashdot. I've moderated before, but that's not the same. The truth is, Slashdot is an oligarthy. I'm not saying that there's a big Dr. Strangelove warroom somewhere in the Andover building (hmmmm.... post that to alt.conspiracy) that the slashadmins sit in and plan nuclear assaults on Redmond, but the truth is that it's controlled by only a few when there are thousands upon thousands of readers. And although this is Rob's and Hemo's and whomever else's production, I think when it comes to content, it's being done for the readers. And if the readers don't like we can protest-- not go to slashdot.
I am absolutly not about to suggest that people boycott slashdot on the account of the widespread dissaproval of JonKatz's writing. (I'm not even going to go out of my way to prove it exists.). But there should be a way to do an approval poll for things like this. We polled for beanie awards, can we make a "Should we or shouldn't we oust JonKatz" vote? I'm ready to cut him loose. There are tons of posts explaining why he doesn't belong here. Accounts registered before the date of the announcement of the polling would be eligible to vote. (This way I can't make nineteen accounts and vote for each of them, and never use them again.). And if say, two-thirds want him gone, well.... sorry Johnny, but your work isn't appreciated here. No hard feelings.
Holes in my theory I am aware of:
Don't like Katz? Change your display preferences. Exclude his posts.
This is censoring the minority who do like him. I'm religious (Jewish). Maybe since most of slashdot are against organized religion, I shouldn't be able to talk. Note that this isn't really the same thing, since I can't (and wouldn't if I could) post stories about Judaism. But the concept is there. Some people do appreciate his writing.
I would love to here feedback and am very open to someone shooting down my theory using good logic.... email/reply very welcome.
The lowest form of popular culture - lack of information, misinformation, disinformation, and a contempt for the truth or the reality of most people's lives - has overrun real journalism. Today, ordinary Americans are being stuffed with garbage.
Carl Bernstein (b. 1944), U.S. journalist. Guardian (London, 3 June 1992).
Kspett
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Ignore your rights and they go away.
After reading several questions dealing with your religious beliefs, I came to see parallels with your writing and those of a quasi-legend at Clemson University... Brother Jim.
When I was in college, there was a "religious performer" (Brother Jim) who would tour our campus once or twice a year proclaiming all of the female students (especially those in sororities) as whores and all males as drug-addicted children of satan... Needless to say, the man recieved little love from the student body. However, whenever he spoke, at least 400 students would encircle him (at a distance) and scream everything from obscenities to actual valid arguements back at him. He always drew a croud, always got active participation, and always raised discussion on his desired topic. Eventually the student newspaper interviewed him and he admitted that he did so in part to enrage students in order to promote discussion of religion - sort of a any press is good press aproach.
On some levels, I respected that response, on some I didn't... either way, watching him for a couple of hours was a lot like going to see the circus...
My Question:
Do you view the discussions you raise as the important effect of your articles, and thereby occasionally intentionally trying to annoy readers, or do you view their content as more important and truly believe every word you type?
You say you want a revolution?
Howdy!
How would you describe your political leanings? More to the point, what do you feel should be the role of government, if any, in the regulation of the Internet?
As the 'net gets more thoroughly entrenched into our culture and conscious, what are the possible dangers we, the users of the 'net, have to watch out for?
Thank you for your time and attention.
Katz is overly dramatic
Katz is an irritation
Katz is a Troll
Hi Katz --
This question is obviously an allegorical device, but also one that the geek community would be happy to discuss literally.
With all of the tribalism and jingoism emerging in this so-called "Geek Ascendant" culture, and the resulting hostility -- the ire commonly directed towards you is a fine example -- how can we, the technological elite, ever hope to have meaningful dialogue with an alien species, should such an event come to pass?
To be sure, the opinions emerging from such contact would certainly be strange and likely different from anything we've wrapped our little minds around in the past. Should we flame the aliens as hopeless newbies?
Mojotoad
Is it true that you are part of a worldwide conspiracy to control all personal thought?
The way I see it is, you could be a token asshole, inserted by the system who already controls the vast majority of our information... Carefully scripted, set to keep those of us who get our info from the web from suspecting how homogonized things are getting... Of course, that is the sort of monopoly to make MS look small, AOL/TimeWarner look almost smaller, and the X-files look mundane. Oh shit... ennui.
Nevermind.
Just curious about your literary/media studies influences. Specifically, I'm interested in your opinion on Noam Chomsky and Jean Baudrillard, in terms of media studies and critiques. Also, who are your favorite writers -- fiction or nonfiction?
-justin
Wow, the quality and intelligence normally found in many posts on /. seems to have disappeared today leaving us with nothing but ignorant fucks who can barely form a sentance, let alone actually post a question for Jon Katz. If you don't like his writing, if you think he is wrong in his basic assumptions - THEN USE YOUR FUCKING BRAINS and post a question that challenges him to respond. Either than or shut the fuck up. Nothing is more irritating that reading the drek that appears on slashdot these days. I read practically this whole thread and only saw 1 question posted to JK out of perhaps 60 replies. How fucking pathetic.
If the responses that this thread has produced are indicative of Geekdom today, perhaps I want to reconsider my membership.
I for one am looking forward to reading both the book and his replies to the questions asked here - then considering them and making up my own mind.
Now, here is my (lame) question for JK: "Given that the publishing industry has historically not "gotten it" - did you have any trouble finding a publisher to publish this book?"
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
That will tell us a lot more about his popularity than a bunch of random emails CmdrTaco receives daily.
I am a Christian. I am a geek. I am not alone. Though we ChristoGeeks (a new demograph I just coined which you may proceed to patronize) tend to be a quiet group here on Slashdot, I felt the need to voice this question.
How much does this new 'demograph' overlap with pizza-faced, chubby nerds, also to be found here? I have dubbed them 'CriscoGeeks'.
As for your feeling of being sooooooo abused and oppressed as a 'minority' ... 1) x-tians aren't a 'minority' in this culture (the US). 2) You're probably not a a minority on /. 3) If you are, maybe it's because most geeks are smart enough to have left religion behind in the dust, where it belongs.
x-tians aren't a minority in the US, but their belief that they are seems similar to the belief many whites have when ethnic minorities 'move in' -- they (the whites) are still the (often vast) majority, but they'll claim they're being overrun by the 'minorities': they're not used to seeing minorities, and so when they do see them, they overestimate their numbers ("they're everywhere!").
Then again, perhaps you're just paranoid and believe everyone (especially those nasty atheists) are out to get you.
Have a nice day.
Andra
---
---
Erotic is using a feather, kinky is using the whole chicken.
When I was in high school, the sociologists were fussing over "Generation X" and its poor job prospects. I remember reading that we (if you buy into the idea of sociological generations - I'm a little skeptical) would be the first generation since the post-Civil War generation to have a lower standard of living than our parents and that the job market would be pitiful. Now, under a decade later, the tide seems to have turned, and the turnaround seems mainly geek fueled. I wonder what you make of this; has much really changed or has the service economy merely changed its nature? Have we traded fry cook for cubicle slave?
P.S. Usually, when I read the opinion pages of the paper, I look for the "Letters to the Editor" and especially the editorial cartoons. Slashdot could use the latter, but in a geek-oriented way.
Well, there are enough links to User Friendly on the main page (there's one on the left side last I checked, and I have the Funnies up) that I think it counts.
Or, if you prefer something a little less technical, you could always just read <a href="http://www.sluggy.com/d/970825.html">Sluggy Freelance</a> (note that I start you at the beginning).
Is this post not nifty? Sluggy Freelance. Worshi
I am quite interested how your writings can engender so much animosity and hatred about topics which are not the kind which the messenger should be killed over. Why do you think your writing has this effect?
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
And frankly, Webster's has the definition of faith wrong. Faith is a method by which answers are sought that steps outside the bounds of formal systems to arrive at otherwise unreachable truths.
There are numerous counterexamples from history (in accounts that are usually rejected as historical simply because they contain such counterexamples) and several in my personal experience. Rejecting data just because it doesn't fit the model is hardly scientific, but it happens all the time. This is another way in which science is treated as a religion.And the brethren went away edified.
And the brethren went away edified.
If the universe turns out to be flat, then time will indeed be infinite, but not to any real-world frame of reference. That's because time had a beginning. To any real observer, a finite amount of time will have elapsed since it began. Space will always be finite (although arbitrarily large) for any real-world observer as well, for the same reason.
And the brethren went away edified.
It is interesting to see so many failed attempts at defining what entails a geek; it is not, however, surprising. For the first time in our historical perspective, a culture arises without a specific ideology. Our motto is not an anti-ideology, or a lack of ideology. Instead, we have an eternally evolving ideology. Geeks will never be defined because we are always redefining; geeks will never be contented because we are always looking to shape the next great thing. We do not hope to achieve something great or to shape the world in some ideal image -- we wish only to keep shaping. Because damn if it isn't snazzy. In this light, do you think geekdom will collapse under its own weight, fly apart from its own whirling momentum, or simply help us come to grips with the unending change of our universe? Or, d) none of the above?
Do you beleive that traditional media outlets are on their way out, and independant journalists on the internet will basically take over in the future? Or will corporate mega-mergers (like AOL/time warner) prevent this from occuring, even if people want it? And perhaps more importantly, will the average person ever come to accept the internet as a reliable news source, as opposed to the good looking news anchor on the television?
The internet gives us all the ability to become journalists in a way. That being said, I'd rather read articles on technical issues written by an engineer who has a bit of journalistic knowledge rather than a journalist who has a bit of technical knowledge.
Would you agree with that, even though you yourself fit into the second category? Does the internet make journalism degrees obsolete, especially if the internet became the world's primary news source, as opposed to TV, radio, and newspapers?
If all VA nee Andover nee Slashdot wants is more page views:
Why not post nude photos of Rob, Nate, and CowboyNeal?
Why not give an opinion column to the Ku Klux Klan?
Why not switch to Windows 2000 and promote its "superiority over Linux"?
I'M REALLY FUCKING PISSED OFF about this, and I'm just about sick of Slashdot. THIS IS BULLSHIT -- I checked the box to block stories from Katz, because I have NO INTEREST IN THIS JACKASS, but there he is... _twice_.
--
E2 IN2 IE?
Given that the Internet, and hence Slashdot, is a global community, why do your articles only seem to be concerned with American issues? Why are even the slightest international parallels or implications of the topics you cover just completely ignored?
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
Recently, I was in a conversation with a person who comes from a very distinct background from mine. We were discussing your articles and how they (and consequently yourself) were hated passionately by slashdot readers. I do not believe that every Katz sentence is gospel, but in the general sense you are usual dead right. My friend and I had both come to the conclusion that it was probably because many slashdot readers didn't want to hear the truth. What is your perspective on their hatred of you. PS. I enjoyed how you not only made your point with the Please Die articles, but also used the slashdot forum to PROVE it.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Elliot
You know, one could conceivably ask you a similar question. ;) It's not nearly as scary as asking why anyone would view comments with a -1 threshold, however.. *chuckle*
~ Kish
2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
3. how do I know there isn't a God?
4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
I suspect you're making some errors here in assuming that the bulk of atheists DON'T ask themselves these questions. But here:
1. I was born one.
2. Lots of study on atheism? Huh - I'm not aware of any canonical texts. But lots of study of other religions, yes. I don't know what "proofs" of atheism you're talking about. I don't see *proofs* of atheism, just a lack of personally compelling *proofs* for most religions.
3. Personal revelations indicating the existence of "God" haven't yet been presented to me.
4. Well. I'm an atheist. My parents aren't. Unless you're trying to argue the "atheist through rebellion" thing, I dunno what that has to do with my situation.
what I'm trying to show you, is that science/atheism is a faith as well. We don't know what happened before the big bang (science can't answer that yet), and our basis of belief is pretty close to the possibility of a God (for He could have just started it all off with the big bang, and left us on our own.
Perhaps you're under the mistaken impression that these are arguments that atheists haven't heard before?
Many religious people have thought long and hard about the existance of God...while they are the majority (religious people), I would hazard a guess that the same percentage of atheists blindly believe what they do as well...
Well, now, that's why things in religion are such a mess, aren't they? Too many willing to "hazard a guess" and run with it.
why do you want to be right so badly?
I'd say this was a good example of a "pre-emptive strike". Moderate it down, please.
While I have yet to witness a Jon Katz comment, only "Features", I wouldn't be surprised if you posted anonymously. (Well, actually, I would - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.)
Your position as "most hated" seems to stem at least in part from a perception within /. of your handing down opinions from on high, without taking part in the general discussion. Given this, do you think a policy of shorter "articles" and longer (or existant, or not AC) "comments" might be in order?
Have you thought of writing biographies of the more prominent persons of the Open Sourse Community, i.e. Linus, Bruce Perens...
I asked you this at LWCE, but I think this is a better forum for questions, so I hope you don't mind my repeating it.
You've said a great deal about the plight of geeks in schools. What do you recommend that schools, teachers, and parents do to (a) encourage geeks to socialise with their peers, and (b) encourage the reverse - that is, provide more ways for geeks to become accepted in school society?
Also, what do you think of projects like the Alternative Superintendancy of New York City, the 12 Consortia for Specialised Secondary Schools in Science and Math, and various magnet programs around the country that are trying to focus on areas of scholastics that may have previously been neglected?
-----------
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth fro
What first gave you the urge to become a writer?
Call on God, but row AWAY from the rocks!
Ideally, what kind of impact do you hope to have upon Slashdot and its readers? What kind of mental associations do you hope people will have with the name "Jon Katz?"
(This is an awfully high-falutin' question for a web journalist, I know. Just curious.)
Jon,
I read a lot of your postings. You don't like the way journalism is practiced in the US. What about elsewhere? I work on several computer trade mags in the UK as a staff writer, and some of the things you say about journalism, whilst possibly relevant to US TV journalism, is pretty irrelevant to the practice of quite a lot of my colleagues in the UK. We know our markets intimately, spend hours and days researching our stories, and are directly answerable to our readers, who, after all, tend to know a lot more than we do about any given subject.
We're not like TV journalists who never have to meet the subject of a story again. We have to be fair because people we write about will rubbish us, and, if we just write sugary, flattering stories, our readers will and do ignore us. We're directly answerable to our constituents.
Unfortunately you're tarring all of us with the same brush.
Would you agree that your constant sniping at other journalists is yellow journalism at it's very worst?
Ben
staff writer,
Network Reseller magazine
The VAR magazine
Golf; a good walk spoiled. -Mark Twain
Simply put, why do you continue to post articles that are, more or less, extended editorials instead of posting links to stories like every Slashdot author does? Admittedly, CmdrTaco is known for putting out the occasional rant, but as long as I've known Slashdot I've known that JonKatz Does Not Post Stories.
Unless your journalistic career comes to an "unfortunate" end, will you ever post stories like the rest of the /. crew? Also, though I can't think of a way to say this without sounding bitchy, do you think that writing stories is an equal effort in continuing the Slashdot cause, whatever that may be?
------------
"Okay, who taught the cat how to type ctrl alt delete?"
I think the reason all the so-called and self-proclaimed geeks on /. hate Mr. Katz is that he truly knows what goes on in their souls, and manages to wwrite about them in non-geek terms. That's a considerable skill. I for one always read his postings. And so does everyone here who says they hate him, I'm sure.
I have no questions for him. Only cheers. Keep it up Jon, and don't let these silly slasdotters get you down. After all, they all love you.
To Mr Katz...
How much of the opinion you state in your articles is really you, and how much of it is just a possible opinion that you think will give rise to a discussion of the current topic? It almost seems like you are just trying to provoke arguments sometimes, and that you write what you know will lead to angry flame wars between hordes of enraged /.ers. Also, how long do you spend on your articles - I've noticed that some of them are a little short on examples or factual detail to back them up, suggesting you're somewhat rushed for time (or don't care about these things - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :) ).
When I was 14, my father told me, "If you want to be accepted, then conform. If you don't want to conform, then don't expect people to accept you. It's your choice. Nobody in this world owes you anything."
My question, then, is how do you react to this sort of thinking?
To wit, can an outisder be accepted and remain an outsider?
What matters more to you: Being accepted by the majority, or being right?
-cwk.
I am a good writer, and one of the sins that I assiduously try to avoid is the overt insertion of my opinion in my writing. A second sin that I try to avoid is mentioning things that are about me and not related to my topic. However, you seem to constantly do these two things in your writing on /..
Two examples:
From Planet Gattaca :
What's so bizarre about "Gattaca" is that it's not really even science fiction, but an early documentary of the 21st Century.
This seems to be an example of unsupportable and clearly personal opinion.
From AOL Nation :
The first media call came in at 7 a.m., a producer at ABC Radio News waking me up to ask if I had any thoughts about the announcement that Time Warner and America Online had just decided to merge into a $350 billion company. The second call came from the BBC, then the Associated Press.
Here you mention yourself in a way that really has nothing to do with the point of your story (although it has everything to do with self-promotion).
Questions: Do you consider yourself a good writer? Do you think that your articles for /. are well-written? If so, why do you write so self-referentially? What is your best work?
how many questions did you expect to get that didn't involve you explaining why you suck so much, or the like. This isn't a troll or a juvenile little snap at you. It's just that everyone (nearly) on slashdot seems to hate you, and the discussion provoked by your articles has at least as much (read: a lot more) to do with people venting at you than at anything you really say. What's the point, I guess, of all this? Are you just trolling, are you serious, what?
Is it possible that your intention is, at least in part, to bring up ethical questions within a community of people who are daily making ethically consequential technical choices, but many of whom may as yet see little relationship between what they do and ethical choice? Do you see any possibility that the vituperation that you receive is actually engendered by the "intrusion" of ethical issues into what some technical users see as an ethically-neutral activity, and you are targeted as its source? If this is too many questions, would you like to comment on the relationship of ethical choice to technical choice in general?
LW
I think Katz knows who his audience is and that could be the whole point. Having a "non-techincal" person try to summarize the issues gives us a glimpse into how an "average" person is viewing the issues. We all are familiar with the idea of groupthink, and slashdot is not exempt from this. Most of the stories posted come from someone with a "techie" bias...why not have an outsider post some stories and get us thinking about what the real issues are what we really think? I believe that is what happens and why so many people dislike Jon but keep reading his writing and generating dialog.
--------
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"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
What's wrong with provoking debate? I thought that's what UseNet ^H^H^H^H Slashdot ;-) was about.
Offensive or not, a world without debate would be pretty boring (and stagnant)
Did you have a bad experience with Christianity as a young child?
Personally, I've had no bad experience with it. I was brought up in a normal Irish Catholic Family. I was NOT sexually abused by a priest. I did not pray for something and not get it. I don't have any emotional scars [that I'm aware of] etc. etc.
I've got an Open Mind (tm). I read stuff. I have no aversion to reading stuff I think/know I'll disagree with. I read a fair bit of the Bible shortly after *coming out* to my parents about not wanting to go to Mass any more. I regularly watch/read religious stuff because I like to know what I'm talking about.
Why do any religious people I know refuse to even read a book review about _scandalous_ theories like say The Origin Of Species.
You're just scared to change your mind. I know I'm not. In fact I'm accused of being quite fickle :)
Maybe I'm not, actually :-):-)
Since us Geeks love checklists; are you ever going to publish a checklist of things geeks can do and say to avoid and/or survive the wrath of the mundanes?
In Nearly All Paradigms, Shift Happens.
Ever read 'Watership Down'?
You remind me of Fiver. The majority of posters here remind me of the village of rabbits that Fiver and his crew eventually departed from.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Obviously almost everyone here seems to have a negative opinion of you. I have to say, I haven't read any of your stuff...I only cruise Slashdot for news now and then, so I couldn't speculate as to why this hatred is so abound. What I'm wondering though is, why do *you* think people dislike you so much? Do you have any idea, or do the comments just float by you, or go unread? Do any of the comments hit "home", and you find yourself saying, "Gee, maybe this guy is right"? Just wondering. Because I'm certain if I had such a large base of people who disliked me, I'd be at least minorly concerned and trying to figure out what all the fuss was about.
Just my 1.4 cents (after taxes)
So Jon, are you a hopeless Linux zealot to the point that you won't even try anything else in fear it might be better? Linux has it's place, and it's open source and all, but there is another free OS that's worth a partition too.
I think a lot of us would really like to see what kind of experience he has when he tries to install BeOS.
From the Council on Secular Humanism website:
Atheist: without a belief in a god and very skeptical of the possibility
Agnostic: without a belief in a god and uncertain as to the possibility
I think these are pretty good definitions. Just figured I would provide something from an organization that has a following of people who consider themselves one of the two terms.
_sig_ is away
STAR (as in hot young actress) WARS
...and a gift. gift?! what gift?!
chapter vi
a story of tender love
natalie portman has returned to her home town of albany new york to rescue her friend, mae ling mak, from the clutches of the vile gangster, naked & petrified guy.
little does natalie know that the evil open source empire, led by esr, has begun construction on a new sendmail daemon even more powerful than the first dreaded sendmail.
once completed, this new daemon will spell certain doom for the natalie portman fan-club, ending their means of sending fan-mail...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
open source man arrives at the development house. workers are scuttling about attempting to look busy.
project leader: open source man, this is an unexpected pleasure. we are honored by your presence.
open source man: you may dispense with the pleasantries, project leader. i am here to put you back on schedule.
project leader: i assure you, open source man, my men are working as fast as they can.
open source man: perhaps i can find new ways to motivate them!
project leader: the new sendmail daemon will be completed on schedule!
open source man: esr does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.
project leader: but he asks the impossible! i need more volunteers!
open source man: then perhaps you can tell him when he arrives here.
project leader: esr is coming here?!
open source man: that is correct, project leader, and he is most displeased with your apparant lack of progress.
project leader: we shall double our efforts!
open source man: i hope so, project leader, for your sake. esr is not as forgiving as i am.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
c3-rms and linus-d2 are walking down the sidewalk in albany new york, headed for the naked & petrified guy's palace.
c3-rms: of course i'm worried. and you should be, too. lando johansen and poor alan cox never returned from this awful place.
linus-d2: chirp, chirp.
c3-rms: don't be so sure. if i told you half the things i've heard about this naked & petrified guy, you'd probably short-circuit.
the two droids approach the gate of the massive palace.
c3-rms: linus, are you sure this is the right place? i better knock, i suppose.
c3-rms knocks on the iron door.
c3-rms: there doesn't seem to be anyone there. let's go back and tell mistress portman.
a small hatch opens in the middle of the door and an aibo head pops out.
aibo head: tnaw uoy od kcuf eht tahw?
c3-rms: goodness gracious me! yug deifirtep & dekan eht ot egassem a evig ot emoc evah ew. smr-3c ma i dna 2d-sunil si siht.
the aibo examines the droids, laughs, then returns to its hole.
c3-rms: i don't think they're going to let us in, linus. we'd better go!
the door opens and linus rushes inside. hesitantly, c3-rms follows.
c3-rms: oh, linus! linus, wait for me!
the giant door slams shut behind the droids. two naked and petrified statue gaurds close in on the droids.
c3-rms: just you deliver mistress portman's message and get us out of here.
out of the darkness, a naked & petrified lacey chabert enters the room.
lacey chabert statue: olleh
c3-rms: oh, my! olleh. we bring a message to your master, the naked & petrified guy.
linus-d2: chirp, beep, chirp.
c3-rms:
lacey shakes her head. lacey holds out her hand toward linus, who chirps in protest as he backs away.
c3-rms: he says that our instructions are to give it only to naked & petrified himself. i'm terribly sorry. i'm afraid he's ever so stubborn about these sorts of things.
lacey motions for the droids to follow her. lacey leads the droids into the naked & petrified guy's throne room. they stand nervously before him.
c3-rms: the message, linus, the message.
a projection of natalie portman beams out from the center of linus' head... the projection speaks...
natalie portman: greetings exalted one. allow me to introduce myself. i am natalie portman, hot young actress and friend to mae ling mak. i know that you are powerful, mighty naked & petrified, and that your lust for mae ling must be equally powerful. i seek an audience with your greatness to bargain for mae ling's life. with your wisdom, i'm sure that we can work out an arrangement which will be mutually beneficial and enable us to avoid any unpleasant confrontation. as a token of my goodwill, i present to you a gift: these two droids. both are hardworking and will serve you well.
naked & petrified guy: there will be no bargain! i will not give up my favorite wall decoration. i like mae ling where she is!
the naked and petrified guy points to mae ling mak, naked & petrified and hanging on the wall.
c3-rms: linus, look! it's mae ling! and she's still frozen in carbonite!
the droids are taken away for processing.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
a party is underway in the throne room. larry wall and tom christiansen are topless and chained. the naked & petrified guy holds the chains as the two dance. the naked & petrified guy grows disgusted with the two constantly making sexual advances toward each other. he presses a button on his throne and the two dancers fall into a pit with a giant aibo. the aibo is equipped with a scientifically proven magic petrification ray. the aibo petrifies the two dancers. laughter fills the room full of naked & petrified teen girls.
suddenly, a blast from the hallway interrupts the merriment. a masked figure walks in with a large hairy handcuffed beast.
c3-rms: oh no! alan cox!
naked & petrified guy: at last, we have the mighty alan cox!
the naked & petrified guy motions for c3-rms to come translate. c3-rms complies.
c3-rms: the illustrious naked & petrified guy bids you welcome and will gladly pay you the reward of twenty-five thousand.
bounty hunter: i want fifty thousand. no less.
the naked and petrified guy becomes enraged. he knocks c3-rms back. c3-rms regains his footing.
c3-rms: uh, the mighty naked & petrified guy asks why he must pay fifty thousand.
the bounty hunter holds up a small brown ball.
c3-rms: because he's holding a ball of gnu dung!
naked & petrified guy: this bounty hunter is my kind of scum. fearless and inventive....
c3-rms: the naked & petrified guy offers you the sum of thirty-five and he'll throw in a cute teen girl naked and petrified.
the bounty hunter nods.
c3-rms: he agrees!
the bounty hunter joins in the resumed celebration as alan cox is taken away by a pair of naked and petrified cute teen girls.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
it is dark and quiet in the throne room. all of the cute naked & petrified teen girls are passed out from the drunken festivities. the bounty hunter steps quietly toward the petrified mae ling mak. the bounty hunter flips a switch on one side of mae ling's encasement. the encasement falls to the floor. the bounty hunter pulls a depetrification lever. a bright light shines through the carbonite. mae ling mak's naked body falls out of the shell and onto the floor. the bounty hunter lifts her up. mae ling regains consciousness.
bounty hunter: just relax for a moment. you're free of the carbonite.
mae ling mak: i can't see!
bounty hunter: your eyesight will return in time.
mae ling mak: where am i?
bounty hunter: the naked & petrified guy's palace.
mae ling mak: who are you?
the bounty hunter removes his mask... it's matalie, natalie portman's identical twin sister!
matalie: someone who loves you!
mae ling mak: matalie!
matalie: i gotta get you outta here.
as matalie helps mae ling mak to her feet, a deep cackle booms from a curtain next to them.
mae ling mak: i know that laugh.
the curtain opens to reveal the naked & petrified guy and his cronies, including c3-rms, whose mouth is being covered by lacey chabert, naked and petrified.
mae ling mak: hey, naked and petrified guy, i was just on my way to bring you some cute teen girls, but i got a little sidetracked. it's not my fault!
naked & petrified guy: it's too late for that, mae ling. you may have been a good provider of cute teen girls, but now you're highway pavement!
mae ling mak: look!
naked & petrified guy: take her away!
a couple of naked & petrified cute teen girls grab mae ling mak and drag her off.
mae ling mak: naked & petrified, i'll pay you triple... you're throwing away 24 cute teen girls here. don't be a fool!
mae ling mak is removed from the scene. the naked & petrified guy turns his attentions to matalie.
naked & petrified guy: bring her to me!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
all is dark and quiet in the entranceway to the naked & petrified guy's palace. the main gate raises to let in a bright white light from outside. the silhouetted figure of natalie portman enters the palace. two naked & petrified cute teen girls try to bar natalie's progress. natalie raises her hand and the guards fall back. natalie proceeds on to the naked & petrified guy's throne room. natalie portman enters the throne room and the naked & petrified guy awakes.
natalie portman lifts her skirt as her twin sister watches.
natalie portman: you will bring mae ling mak and alan cox to me.
naked & petrified guy: your sexual powers will not work on me, girl!
natalie portman: nevertheless, i am taking mae ling and her friends. you can either profit by this or be destroyed. it's your choice. but i warn you not to underestimate the powers of my hot young body.
the naked and petrified guy glares at natalie portman smugly. he presses the button to the trapdoor.
naked & petrified guy: there will be no bargain, young actress. i shall enjoy admiring you nude and imobile.
natalie portman falls into the pit with the giant aibo, equipped with the scientifically proven magic petrification ray. the aibo's ray warms up and it begins to fire, but not before natalie pulls a mirror from her purse and holds it up to the aibo. the ray reflects from the mirror and petrifies the aibo.
a naked and petrified cmdr taco and hemos come into the chamber. they are devastated at the loss of the aibo.
the naked & petrified guy is also infuriated.
naked & petrified guy: bring me mak and cox! they will all suffer for this outrage!
several naked & petrified cute teen girls scramble about. mae ling mak, alan cox and natalie portman are brought before the naked & petrified guy. c3-rms translates.
c3-rms: oh dear. his high exaltedness, the great naked & petrified guy, has decreed that you are to be terminated immediately.
mae ling mak: good, i hate long waits.
c3-rms: you will therefore be taken to the dune sea and cast into a pit of hot grits.
mae ling mak: doesn't sound so bad.
c3-rms: there you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as your are slowly digested over a thousand years.
mae ling mak: on second thought, let's pass on that.
natalie portman: you should have bargained, naked & petrified guy. that's the last mistake you'll ever make!
the naked & petrified guy cackles evilly as the prisoners are hearded off.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
at the pit of hot grits, natalie portman, alan cox and mae ling mak are moved into position to be pushed into the pit from a small sail barge. matalie and linus-d2 watch from the naked & petrified guy's larger sail barge.
a naked & petrified cute teen girl moves natalie portman into position. natalie portman nods to lando johansen and linus-d2. they indicate acknowledgement of the signal. natalie is pushed over the plank, but she grabs onto it as she falls and bounces back. at the same moment, linus-d2 ejects a can of mace from a compartment in his head. natalie uses the mace to send various naked & petrified teen girls carreening into the pit of hot grits. the grits bubble in delight.
matalie takes advantage of the chaos. she grabs the chain connecting her to the naked & petrified guy and uses it to strangle him.
lando johansen frees mae ling mak and alan cox, who join natalie portman in the fight. natalie makes her way to the main sail barge, while matalie is freed by linus-d2.
linus-d2 and c3-rms dive into the sand. natalie portman grabs her twin sister and jumps back onto the smaller sail barge with lando johansen, mae ling mak and alan cox after setting off the large petrification ray on the main sail barge.
as the smaller sail barge collects the droids and flies away, the entire large sail barge is petrified and collapses under its own weight.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
open source man and the sendmail project leader kneal at the entranceway of the development shop. esr enters the room.
esr: rise my friend.
open source man and the project leader rise and walk alongside esr.
open source man: the sendmail daemon will be completed on schedule.
esr: you have done well, open source man. and now i sense you wish to continue your quest to open source young natalie portman.
open source man: yes, my master.
esr: patience, my friend. in time she will seek you out. and when she does, you must bring her before me. she has developed nicely. only together can we turn her to the open source side.
open source man: as you wish.
esr: everything is proceeding as i have foreseen.
esr laughes as they walk down the hallway.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
linus-d2 waits outside in the rain. natalie portman is inside a small hut with betty davis.
betty davis: hmmm. that face you make. look i so old to young eyes?
natalie portman: no... of course not.
betty davis: i do, yes, i do! sick have i become. old and weak. when nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not! soon i will rest. yes, forever sleep. earned it i have.
natalie portman: mistress davis, you can't die.
betty davis: strong am i with femininity. but not that strong! twilight is upon me and soon night must fall. that is the way of things... the way of the hot young actress.
natalie portman: but i need your help. i've come back to complete the training.
betty davis: no more training do you require. already know you that which you need.
natalie portman: then i am a hot young actress?
betty davis: ohhhh. not yet. one thing remains: open source man. you must confront open source man. only then a hot young actress will you be. and confront him you will.
natalie portman: mistress davis.... was open source man the president of my fan club?
betty davis: mmmm... rest i need. yes... rest.
natalie portman: betty, i must know.
betty davis: the president of your fan club he was. told you did he?
natalie portman: yes.
betty davis: unexpected this is. and unfortunate.
natalie portman: unfortunate that i know the truth?
betty davis: no. unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your hotness. not ready for a sexual relationship were you. remember, a hot young actress's strength flows from her hot young buttocks. but beware. anger, fear, agression. the open source side are they. once you start down the open source path, forever will it dominate your destiny. consume you it will. natalie... natalie... do not... do not underestimate the powers of esr, or suffer open source man's fate you will. natalie, when gone am i, the last of the hot young actresses will you be. natalie, hotness is strong in your family. pass on what you have learned. natalie... there is... another.... port... port... man.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
natalie portman wanders back outside. she is depressed.
natalie portman: i can't do it linus. i can't go on alone.
hedy lamar: betty davis will always be with you.
natalie looks up and sees the spirit of hedy lamar. hedy approaches natalie and they sit together on a tree trunk.
natalie portman: hedy lamar! why didn't you tell me? you told me open source man tied up and bludgeoned the president of my fan club!
hedy lamar: the president of your fan club was seduced by the open source community. he ceased to be anonymous coward and became open source man. when that happened, the good man who was the president of your fan club was destroyed. so what i have told you was true... from a certain point of view.
natalie portman: a certain point of view!
hedy lamar: natalie, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. anonymous was a good friend. when i first knew him, anonymous was already a great fan of yours. i was amazed at how obsessed he was with you. i took it upon myself to train him as the president of your fan club. i thought i could instruct him just as well as betty davis. i was wrong.
natalie portman: there's still good in him.
hedy lamar: he is more machine now than man. horny and desperate.
natalie portman: i can't do it, hedy. i can't kill the president of my own fan club.
hedy lamar: then esr has already won. you were our only hope.
natalie portman: betty spoke of another.
hedy lamar: the other she spoke of is your identical twin sister.
natalie portman: but i have no sister.
hedy lamar: to protect you both from esr, you were hidden from him when you were born.
natalie portman: matalie! matalie's my sister!
hedy lamar: your insight serves you well. bury your feelings deep down, natalie. they do you credit. but they could be made to serve esr.
One of the biggest and most valid criticisms you (regularly) receive on /. is directed to your writing style. Specifically, you write _long_ articles with _long_ (occasionally run-on) sentences containing questionable grammar. Given that you're a professional (paid!) journalist, do you feel that this affects how seriously your readers take your writing?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
The social implications of technology tend to be wholly uninteresting to most "tech-heads". In a forum such as Slashdot, one would expect that most of the audience is likely to be turned off by the social effects. However, Jon Katz perseveres in the face of much negativity. You obviously have a "mission". What is that mission? Are you interested in bringing a little humanization to the table? Do you want to make the "digerati" more aware of the less obvious social effects that their work is having on society? I hope this gets selected as an honest question, because it is. Oh yeah... i 4M 31337! g1v3 m3 w4rEzzz d00dz!!! k-r4D 4-3v4!!
Don't complain about my web page. It's mine. ALL MINE.
This is definately off topic, but you are one of the most inspiring journalists I have ever read. I'm interested in persuing a career in journalism, and I was wondering if you have any tips, I know it's stupid. :)
Benny (aka) ~ The Psychadelic, Hippy Monk ~
What life experiences have led you to this belief? I'm quite curious, because frankly I'm the exact opposite!
I have not read a large number of your stories, but those I have read have been useful, because they have been insightful for me or for others. The "Voices from Hellmouth" series, was especially valuable, as it was just about the only coverage of those events that had any real meaning.
Most of your stories seem to really take sides on the issues at stake, to label one side as "good" and the other as "bad". As someone with some experience in journalism, I know that one sometimes lets ones sympathies affect an article. This seems reasonable enough, after all, does the story "All is well in Pleasantville" have any real value? My question is this: Do you describe opposing viewpoints with such great contrasts in order to involve the reader, to make the story more interesting, and to better explain events to the specific reader base, or do you really see things as so black and white?
The world I see is not black and white, it is rather gray. Yet I see so many people trying to paint it as black and white, and that fails for me.
Have you ever met a geek who was better-adjusted socially than you? More articulate? Someone who defied all the stereotypes, and could just kick your ass in any human endeavor you can think of? Will you concede that there are geeks that don't need a "spokesperson" such as yourself? Do you think your work serves to perpetuate stereotypes, or dispel them?
Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
I would tend to think that a higher percentage of geeks would be agnostic rather than atheist. Of course, I haven't done any studies, and I could be just talking out of my ass, but this is true at least among those I've associated with.
Do you feel that many people with technical abilities lack the necessary communication skills and patience to discuss technical issues with a non-technical audience?
Do you see your role on /. to act as a communication intermediary between the /. users and the world at large?
tlauf
Bruce
Warning: I'm fake. Most of the stuff I post here is stupid. Use your head. Blah Blah Blah
Bruce
Warning: I'm fake. Most of the stuff I post here is stupid. Use your head. Blah Blah Blah
Bruce
Warning: I'm fake. Most of the stuff I post here is stupid. Use your head. Blah Blah Blah
Bruce
Warning: I'm fake. Most of the stuff I post here is stupid. Use your head. Blah Blah Blah
Oh! There you are!
Did you miss it?
Bruce
Warning: I'm fake. Most of the stuff I post here is stupid. Use your head. Blah Blah Blah
But are you the same Katz that does that cartoon, or is it just coincidence you have the same name? I know that you come from a not-so-technical background, but that's it.
To perhaps rephrase the question, if you were to submit any of your previous editorals (the best I can see to describe them) to, say, the New York Times op ed page, how much additional time and effort would you put into trimming and re-writing, and do you think the article would be improved by this process?
-Kahuna Burger
...will work for Chick tracts...
I have to admit to amazement. Here we have this post moderated up, responded to, etc and no one has asked the obvious question : where exactly does Katz make these defamatory statements? While I am not an avid Kazt reader, I read them fairly often, and I can't think of a single example of Katz insulting any religion or xtianity specificly. The closest I can think of is when he lists groups that have shown an interest in "controlling" the net, religions as a broad group are mentioned. Is this what you're talking about? Is this "railing" on religion?
If you could direct me to one of Katz's articles that you feel is a good example of this rampant xtain abuse, it would help. If he "never fails" then one solid example shouldn't be hard to point out.
-Kahuna Burger
...will work for Chick tracts...
Sir, What's your opinion of the acting ability of Natalie Portman? .... :)
What is it that interests you so much about your usual topics, such as corporatism? What particular event or reason triggered you to care about your chosen crusades? Also, since you describe yourself as a non-geek, why the interest in us?
--Colbey (Josh Rosenberg)
I have noticed your posts bring out the best and the worst in the collective group of 'geeks' and slashdot community members. Has this always been your aim? To explore all sides of the geek/hacker culture and mindset?
If I write a book will you review it?
*** www.linuxuk.co.uk relaunches 1 Mar 2000 ***
blog and junk
if you could see anyone interviewed on /. who would it be?
what question would you post?
*** www.linuxuk.co.uk relaunches 1 Mar 2000 ***
blog and junk
tell us John, what was the final outcome? (or did this get posted to /. ,and I didn't notice....and a few more questions 2) how much does it irk you when people refer to you as John Katz, not Jon Katz? 3) if Rob&crew made your job at /. contingent on spending 3 hours a day moderating trolls down, would you do it? 4) how do you handle all the abuse you get..which is more annoying, the sophmoric name calling, or the well thought out disection and roasting of anything you write
------ Work is so much easier when you don't
What do you feel your foray into the 'geek' community has taught you and what do you feel you have given back?
Working for the (other) man
Are you the Hot Grits down my pants guy?
hmmm... I've always wondered that.
I'd like to ask if Jon realises how inflammatory some of his comments are before he posts his articles, i.e. Does he deliberately set out to provoke (sometimes offensive:) debate.
Here's an actual question for Jon: What's with all the low quality site-hopping? I personally don't really like Jon's writing, but it seems like I'm not the only one... he hung on at HotWired until it was totally dead and now he's here. Jon, why don't you have a gig at a real media outlet? THey don't like what you have to say? Or just that they don't like your writing?
puke at your writing as much as we do.
BTW, Happy troll day?
At the risk of posting something that could be labeled off-topic, allow me to formulate responses to this whole mess. The essences of the flames themselves will be in boldface, my own responses plain:
- Jon Katz isn't a geek. The main argument made for this one seems to be that Katz isn't a technical person. I suppose this depends on one's definition of geek; while Katz certainly isn't a traditional geek, I ask you to consider this broader definition for a moment:
- Jon Katz doesn't write particularly well. The main sub-points here seem to be that he supposedly uses run-on sentences and takes too long to get to his point. While Katz does write long sentences, they aren't run-ons for the most part; if they were, being something of an English-oriented geek, I'd notice. (Note: before anyone flames me about my toying with the rules, let me say that I'm not trying to write particularly formally.) This is just his style. If you don't like that style, that really isn't Katz's problem.
- Editorials don't belong on Slashdot. Where, then, do editorials belong? Must they be sequestered in some obscure corner of the Net where no one will read and consider them? Note that newspapers have editorial sections even though editorials are technically not news. Why? Because newspapers exist to help people form opinions, and hearing those of others can facilitate that.
- Jon Katz is stuck-up and pompous. Katz expresses his opinions. Nothing more. That's the definition of an editorial, after all. Opinions, by definition, show bias.
- Jon Katz presumes to speak for all geeks. When, may I ask, did Katz ever claim to be speaking for anyone but himself? In which article did he ever say anything like, "Geeks all share this opinion"? Sure, he's expressed perceived facts about how we're treated or how the world is changing because of us, but I can't remember one time when he claimed to understand how we all think.
OK, now that that's out of my system, I suppose it's time for me to ask an actual question. Here it goes:While a normal only wants to use a thing, a geek strives to understand that thing.
Consider for a moment what Katz writes about. It's not the technologies themselves that are the point of his articles. It's people: morality, society, freedom, all that heady stuff. Is thinking about the workings of humankind any less valid than thinking about the workings of the Linux kernel?
As for the question of whether Katz takes too long to make his point, I fear that perhaps too many people have grown accustomed to simple sound bites. This aspect of his style is a relic of, IMO, a better time -- a time when people didn't just blurt out opinions, but presented them in such a way that people were given a chance to think, to see the writer's point even if they didn't agree.
While Slashdot is hardly a newspaper, it does seem to be attempting to fill the same role the Internet way. It provides links to news and allows people to talk about it. Certainly editorials are a valid way to make people think in the Internet age as well.
However, one good point has been made about this by the flamers: why is Katz the only one who posts editorials? Is it simply because he has written them (and continues to write them) in other forums and publications? Perhaps another person or two should be invited to write editorials here as well.
Are these flamers simply angry because Katz presents his opinions formally rather than in a flame, as they've learned to? Has flaming somehow become the "polite" way to express an opinion in the Internet age, while anyone who takes the time to express one's thoughts more precisely is only doing so to make himself look superior?
Perhaps it's what Katz expresses opinions about that's the problem. He questions the morality of things. He points out what he sees as the problems in society. He wonders about where the Internet is going, and puts his imagination to work trying to find some direction. Is that so wrong? Must we limit our range of thought to how to fix this bug, how to defeat that threat to open source, and how to stop the other thing from getting patented?
The day that one is considered to be stuck-up and pompous just for saying something more than "* sucks" is a sad day indeed.
Ironically, most of these flames seem to carry the very tone that the flamers themselves claim Katz uses -- an assumption that their opinion is that of every geek. What a sad display of hypocrisy.
I've noticed that there seem to be three distinct flavors of piracy:
- Piracy for the sake of saving money, sometimes even the sake of "screwing corps over";
- Piracy for the sake of convenience, with no concern for anyone else's interests;
- Piracy for the sake of convenience, but with concern for the original creators.
Corporations, of course, are only interested in money; they'll even hurt their own customers and artists in order to reach that goal. Certainly nothing can be done about the first variety of pirates, but the second and especially the third shouldn't simply be labeled as thieves; it's not quite that simple.With all this in mind, what do you suppose the ultimate result of this battle over how creations should be distributed will be?
I hope this interview turns out to be as insightful as I hope.
Everything that needs to be said, nothing that doesn't.
Apologies to all the trolls for posting a serious question. Sorry, but I think JonKatz is an interesting part of slashdot, and as long as he keeps writing, I'll keep reading. QUESTION; What part does Jon think the 'net will play in the 'Spiritual Revolution' that seems to be occuring in our society? Specifically understanding of each others beliefs and the unification of different religions. What's going to happen and how's it going to work? I've often picked up on thinkings congruent with Celestine Prophecy and Conversations With God in Jon's postings - while these are cheesy books I've found them interesting reads - anyone care to recommend more free-software oriented reads?
With the current deCSS brouhaha, there are several Supreme Court - worthy aspects:
1: Jurisdiction questions on the Internet
2: Common carrier vs publisher aspect of ISPs
3: Defining the lines between copyright and fair use in the electronic/Internet age
IMHO these are all issues worth arguing there. But also IMHO, deCSS is not the case to take them there, because we have no/few friends on this one. We're too likely to lose, because money is often more important than justice in the legal system, and that sets some bad precedents.
What type of case would you like to see take these issues to the Supreme Court?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Do you see yourself as a geek, or as an "outsider" attempting to understand geek culture?
If the answer is the latter, that might be an insight into why so many /. readers resent his seemingly "expert" editorials about geekdom. Can a non-geek ever *really* appreciate what life is like as a geek?
Admittedly, I haven't read a lot of /. relating to Katz (either his articles or the resulting commentary), but I thought I would send this question out there anyway.
I'd to take this opportunity to say that I appreciate John's interesting and thought provoking articles. From the many other peurile comments posted, I know this view isn't shared by the other posters. Now the question: have you ever tried to figure out why so many people dislike your articles? Why is there such a strong negative reaction? I'm really puzzled because, like I said above, I like your articles. I'm almost led to believe that most slashdot readers could care less about the wider cultural implications of technology that you discuss. I find this chilling and hope I'm wrong.
How do you continue to get the exposure you do, considering you have the wit and insight of a four year old with down's syndrome?
All my love,
br4dh4x0r
Shake your Jon-Jon,
Does it bother you that such a large percentage of Slashdot readers find you to be a complete idiot? I mean, if I fancied myself a serious author (as you obviously do), I'd be pretty distressed that so many people would rather sodomize themselves with a coral manrammer than read one of my poignant commentaries.
Hugs and kisses,
br4dh4x0r
Jon is, without doubt, the most hated Slashdot Author, but he is also the most-read, the most-discussed, and the most puzzling
The only reason he's the most read is because he's the only person who can post his own editorials on the main page. Does he have any competition? When was the last time you saw anyone BUT Jon-Jon post a 15 page dissertation on why geeks post about grits and how that makes him feel as a person?
My point is this: don't let him post his crap to the main page. At the very least, make him submit a link to his story on his own page. See how many hits he gets then.
Love,
br4dh4x0r
Is it the people themselves, the culture or was it just just a journalistic niche that needed to be filled.
How can you continue being nice to geeks when so many of them flame you all the time?
With the thousands of monkeys typing away at slashdot isn't this something that must happen soon enough.
Knowing that you face a hostile audience of huge, nay cultish, proportions who would like nothing else than to see you dropped into a tank of radioactive waste, how can you still post articles that require some thought and intelligence to grok?
What do you think inspires such a level of hatred towards your work, and, for that matter, towards you personally? One only has to look at a few of th troll posts of late to find bile rivaled only by Chick pamphlets. Granted, your articles are often rather uninspired rehashing of old stuff, sometimes ignorant, and your writing technique leaves a lot to be desired, but is that enough to issue death threats? You've certainly touched some nerves. Do you think it has anything to with your status as a non-tech? Do you think some of the backlash is typical of that faced by any outsider breaking into a sub-culture?
Simply put, because based off of my experiences, it seems correct. Based off of what I have seen and heard and read, I am lead to believe that there is no supreme being.
2. how much actual study have I done on the subject of atheism (and the proofs therein)?
A great deal. In addition to just generally studying science (which is not directly related to Atheism, but has helped me reach the conclusion that Atheism is correct), I regularly read Atheist resources (like www.atheist.org) ans also have done a fair amount of studying on different religions, westeren and non, and the history of them.
3. how do I know there isn't a God?
I don't "know" there isn't a God just as I don't "know" just about anything. I don't "know" that atoms really exist, but based off of the proof I've been shown and the lack of counterexamples, I can be reasonable sure that atoms exist. Same thign with God. I don't "know" there is no God, but based off of what proof I've seen to the contrary (and more based off of the LACK of proof of God's existance) I can be reasonably sure there is not a God.
4. how much of my belief system comes from my parents?
Not much. Basically, they never tried to force any religion on me at all. Both of them are agnositc by the way.
is that science/atheism is a faith as well
....sort of. Atheism, well, I suppose I can accept that as a faith. Science, absolutely not. Here's why:
1) Science is repeatable. You yourself can test most scientific theories. And yes, even theories like the Big Bang may someday be testable in a lab (on a small scale).
2) Science is based on observation of the world around us, whereas religion is based off of a writing or writings of a man or men who claimd to speak the word of God.
3) Science promotes questioning and rethinking. Newton gave us the laws of gravity (which you can go out and test if you like), Einstine gave us better ones, and Hawking and others are working to give us better ones still. Most religions, on the other had, discourage or forbid questioning the word of God.
4) Science involves the continual search for a clearer, better perception (hence the microscope and such inventions). Religions are generally happy to just take what their dogma says and leave it at that.
That is why I don't think you can classify science as a faith. Sure, you can argue that it's all in our minds and we aren't percieving anything correctly, yourself into a corner pretty quickly. Take a look at Descart if you want to see what I mean. If you took his premises as true, he managed to prove "I think, therefore I am" but then couldn't prove anything past that.
I have read your last sets of articles. I must say that you have reasonably presented opinions of things that may not be popular. Now my question You seek out these opinions, in the tradition of most editorials, to stir up controversy or a fornlorn hope to get us to think? In the Valley of the Blind the one eyed man is stoned to death, but we need him occasionally to point out what we did not see.
Jeremy Anderson,
You are a perfect example of the flame-casters I was refering. Though I notice by your jurai email you're on matt's box now, I wonder when that happened? As for AO, I don't defend John, and I never liked Caroline, both have turned an otherwise honest medium into one of lies and deception.
When this comes up in any public forum, I expect some sort of negative reaction. As was part of my comment to Katz describing this very situation, this is why I asked him that question. When you get flames from people all the time, you get used to it.
As for Matt's box, I've been there since his LSU Days.. back in 95' I think...
Jon,
I am, or was a online writer like yourself, I spent a great deal of time and energy writing for a publication which I will not name as I feel I have finally lived down the flame I recieved by aligning myself to it. Some Slashdot readers may recall my name from it, some may not. Regardless I've spent almost a year recovering from the hatred I received online, not for my writing but that I wrote *for* this online webzine. As a result, its lack of integrity has gone from flame to truth even in the eyes of the mainstream media. The result is I have seen first hand what flame can do, Almost to an exact opposite of what has happened with you and Slashdot. In my case, I was not hated for what I wrote, but for who I wrote it. In your case, Slashdot remains respected even with your detractors hating your writing. My question is how you deal with your detractors, and how you continue to write, do you ignore them as a whole? or as I've seen recently,(from the furnance series of articles) you've tried to understand them and their motives in a attempt that they might better understand you? My question is how you intend to recover from the damage done to you by your detractors, whether real or not - it continues to hound you and Slashdot and I for one would like to know if it is even possible to put such 'ghosts' to rest.
Rodney Caston
I often find his stuff worth reading.
I have never found long articles (by anyone) to be a problem. I either keep reading, and learn something or I decide that I've learned enough for the moment, and then I just stop reading. That doesn't seem to be too difficult.
I have learned to turn off my TV too.
-----
Pretty Bad Privacy (PBP) Public Key
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Pretty Bad Privacy (PBP) Public Key
6
Q's? Mr Katz, Do you write the articles (that are posted on /.) with the mindset that you want to sound radical or be deliberately inflamatory? How do you view the trolls and their opinions of your writting? Do you think that their response is warrented? What causes you to pick the topics that you do? Do you select subjects based on what is in the news or on certian types of peoples minds? Lastly, When you have an article on /. do you read and consider peoples opinions (non-trollish responses to your articles) for your future writing?
Lets stop praying for someone to save us and save ourselves. ~KMFDM
- Think for yourself, question authority.-
I would like to know what Jon considers his role to be, since in this day and age you can pretty much define your own role if you have the right audience.
sig? never touch 'em.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
Would it be accurate to say that by writing articles that go on and on without end that what you are doing is attempting a DoS attack?
If JonKatz was in a forest alone and he spoke, would he still be wrong?
Let me tell you about the first Jon Katz post that ever put me to sleep. I was just sitting down in front of my keyboard. I reached over and booted my computer, and noticed my cat looking at me. I have three cats. This one was making a pest over herself, and I picked her up and put her in the living room, went back to my computer and shut the door so I wouldn't have to deal with her interuptions again. It was about this time my wife got home. She told me about the kind of day she had at work and I suggested we get something to eat. I would get back to the Jon Katz article later I thought. We went out for dinner and had Pizza. I like Peperoni and my wife likes bacon with extra cheese. We shared slices of each others pizza. The dinner cost about $20.00. I remember pizza used to cost alot less. It's a shame how expensive hings are nowadays. But what's worse than the cost of everything is the taxes. I hate paying such high taxes when most of my money is going to be wasted on big-government pork. Pork is good on Pizza. I also like BBQ pork and beans. The capital of Iowa is Des Moines. I drive a camaro.
The first thing I do every morning when I wake up is take a bath. You can learn a lot from a dog. If you forget history, you are doomed to repeat it. Did you see the latest pictures of Natalie Portman? Wow!
My favorite movie last year was The Iron Giant. I wish George Lucas would put the original trilogy out on DVD.
Is Saturn really a different kind of car company?
Do you think Linus has the patience to read one of Katz's articles? He's really busy with Transmeta.
Drug are bad, m'kay? So don't do drugs, or you'll be bad. m'kay? Cuz drugs are bad. m'kay?
Writing till geeks are all
Frothing and wailing
Under their Red Hats.
Pressing a prose style
Inflammitorational--
What's the next project of
Practical Katz?
by jonkatz on Wednesday February 02, @12:21PM EDT
He's handsome, wise and a legendary programmer (though secretly)
jonkatz@slashdot.org
Although I concede your arrogance point.
Error 503:
I notice that you deal with some issues that have a global scope, e.g. the internet. How do you make sure to not only write from an american perspectiv? Do you have any proven and useful way to make sure you do not limit yourself and your readers?
I don't think these celebrity impostors are funny at all. Linus
An interview with Katz will be posted in Playboy.com's Digital Culture section the evening of Feb. 10, and an hourlong live chat with him will commence at 9 p.m. EST on Tuesday, Feb. 15.
i have decided not to answer any of these troll- ridden questions. I am very disappointed in you all.
Hey man, where do you get haircut?