i understand about the loans and crap... it really is tough to go through school, come out with 20k in loans, and have any options outside of work for the next 40 years. bleh.
but, if you get tired of DB programming, i highly suggest going far geekier than you originally thought you wanted to. its a refreshing change of career.
because you're working with the same type of idiots that think you can make 70,000/year after getting their MSCE.
there is a surplus of idiot programmers right now who dont belong in this business. Literally, when i got my first development job, i had 1 compsci college course, and a good attitude - *thats it*. (which btw, wont get you in a door these days - THANK GOD I GOT MY CS (not IT) DEGREE)
i learn awfully fast, and had figured DB programming (starting with Informix 4GL) out in 6 months. top to bottom - SQL, forms, best practices.
then i kicked ass for the next 1.5 years... and then got horribly bored and left in another year to do far more technical work - i worked for a Beowulf vendor.
i now work for a thin-client producer, love it, and i dont think i could *ever* "know it all" in this field. theres just too damn much.
so... describe these people that you have to go around and clean their code? do they have college degrees? are they > 25?
as you note, programmers and engineers are two different animals.
programmers are almost blue-collar work whereas (non-MSCE) engineers are considerred true *professionals*, and are treated as such, and given reasonable repect and advancement opportunities.
i've been on both sides of the fence, and i'm _very_ glad that i finished my degree and was able to transition from an IT database programmers job to a systems engineering one where kernel hacking is a weekly experience...
make the move kids, the IT programming will drive you insane, and leave you in a dead-end no advancement no future job.
IT programming jobs are fairly horrible - you know, database work.
i did a database job for 3 years, and drove me absolutely bonkers - a decently smart CompSci guy should pick up everything you need to know about databases in about 6 months.
everything. and then for the next N years of your life, you spew reports that you could care less about.
now... true "systems engineering" type jobs... or lower level, more technical stuff - there is definite value in having more experienced people, and the burnout isnt a bad.
IT programmers have a useful life of 12 years. thats it. you will drive yourslef insane shortly after that.
look, if you're a retailer, and product X is selling better than product Y, which one do you stock more of? irregardless of which is the better "technology", which the xbox is, the playstation is outselling it.
its ok, the console industry is replete with examples of better technology failing to attract more users than the lesser technology equivalent: The Intellivision, Atari Jaguar, NEO-GEO, Sega's first console. They all technology-wise kicked the dominate systems ass. (Atari 2600, Sega Genesis, Nintendo original).
They also all lost.
And the same criteria could be used then. GO into a store, see which one has the most shelf sapce, and it directly corresponds to how well the console is selling.
>2) I am sure that it'd be handy for you to think >the government was bought in this case. It >wasn't. From the tone of your article though it >doesn't sound like you are interested in the >legal reasons that the DOJ settled
the legal reason to settle? for christs sakes, they've been CONVICTED of leveraging a monopoly illegally.
convicted. guilty.
do you give a convicted murderer probation? i dont think so.
Slashdot Mirror
oh come on, end-user programming can be fun... i've got 10's of thousands of units deployed to end-users.
its the end-user support that sucks. bleh. thank the powers that theres a seperate department that does that...
i understand about the loans and crap... it really is tough to go through school, come out with 20k in loans, and have any options outside of work for the next 40 years. bleh.
but, if you get tired of DB programming, i highly suggest going far geekier than you originally thought you wanted to. its a refreshing change of career.
i have a friend who makes 40k a year, and she has a studio apartment in the village for 900/month.
funny how she seems to make it ok...
i've been on your side of the fence before. there is a difference, and until you experience both sides, you wont see it.
dude - what cities can you not live on for 40,000 a year? christ, you can do NYC with that amount of money.
yeh yeh, you wont have a 5th ave. apartment, but you make it sound bad to be making that amount of money.
but wont touch database programming anymore...
seriously... a company would have to pay me obscene amounts of money to get me to DB code again.
more power to ya... i couldnt deal with the monotony of that profession, and prefer systems engineering much more than DB programming.
if you fine yourself naming fields FIELD01 ... FIELD25, thats usually a pretty good indication that you need another table for those values.
because you're working with the same type of idiots that think you can make 70,000/year after getting their MSCE.
there is a surplus of idiot programmers right now who dont belong in this business. Literally, when i got my first development job, i had 1 compsci college course, and a good attitude - *thats it*. (which btw, wont get you in a door these days - THANK GOD I GOT MY CS (not IT) DEGREE)
i learn awfully fast, and had figured DB programming (starting with Informix 4GL) out in 6 months. top to bottom - SQL, forms, best practices.
then i kicked ass for the next 1.5 years... and then got horribly bored and left in another year to do far more technical work - i worked for a Beowulf vendor.
i now work for a thin-client producer, love it, and i dont think i could *ever* "know it all" in this field. theres just too damn much.
so... describe these people that you have to go around and clean their code? do they have college degrees? are they > 25?
as you note, programmers and engineers are two different animals.
programmers are almost blue-collar work whereas (non-MSCE) engineers are considerred true *professionals*, and are treated as such, and given reasonable repect and advancement opportunities.
i've been on both sides of the fence, and i'm _very_ glad that i finished my degree and was able to transition from an IT database programmers job to a systems engineering one where kernel hacking is a weekly experience...
make the move kids, the IT programming will drive you insane, and leave you in a dead-end no advancement no future job.
IT programming jobs are fairly horrible - you know, database work.
i did a database job for 3 years, and drove me absolutely bonkers - a decently smart CompSci guy should pick up everything you need to know about databases in about 6 months.
everything. and then for the next N years of your life, you spew reports that you could care less about.
now... true "systems engineering" type jobs... or lower level, more technical stuff - there is definite value in having more experienced people, and the burnout isnt a bad.
IT programmers have a useful life of 12 years. thats it. you will drive yourslef insane shortly after that.
much better hardware than anything in the x86 family, though...
a hack, on top of a kludge, wrapped in a riddle, inside of an enigma. thats intel's x86 instruction set. blech.
motorola has a much better designed chip.
you mean... like sung to the tune of Louie Louie?
....
Pharoh Pharoh...
OHHH Noooo...
Let my people go...
YAA... yaa ayaa yaaa ya ayaaa
nah... then we'd have to see the annoying little caeser's dude saying "duron duron" for commercials...
heres another article talking about the xbox, and how its "stagnant" and halo is the only decent game.
xbox is going to be right up there with MS's other big flop, MS-BOB
try the excersize.
cat>yo_moms_a_ho
type something here
C-X C-c
thats where emacs gets in from.
it actually makes the most sense out of *any* unix text editor.
.
why?
try this excersize.
cat>some_file
type here.
... now how do you save, and exit editting from this? thats right - Ctrl-X (EOF character) Ctrl-C
thats why emacs uses that key combo
oh my god.
let me guess - christian fundamentalist?
its common speculation that much of the old testament and new testament was lifted from local legends.
The creation story is a mirror image of the Enuma Elish legend, down to what was created on what day.
The flood story is a mirror image of the gilgamesh legend.
and the "jesus story" is a mirror image of the su-god legend.
you're bible is a neat story, but it isnt particularly creative, or true. just rehashes of old legends.
sigh...
look, if you're a retailer, and product X is selling better than product Y, which one do you stock more of? irregardless of which is the better "technology", which the xbox is, the playstation is outselling it.
its ok, the console industry is replete with examples of better technology failing to attract more users than the lesser technology equivalent: The Intellivision, Atari Jaguar, NEO-GEO, Sega's first console. They all technology-wise kicked the dominate systems ass. (Atari 2600, Sega Genesis, Nintendo original).
They also all lost.
And the same criteria could be used then. GO into a store, see which one has the most shelf sapce, and it directly corresponds to how well the console is selling.
Let me guess, you bought an xbox?
i did think before i typed, jackass.
shelf space in a software retail store is a premium. some software companies actually pay to have their product on the shelves.
its a very good measurement. if there was more demand for playstation games than xbox games, it would take up more shelf space.
ever see the difference between mac vs. windows software in a mixed-os software store? guess which one there is more demand for.
the dreamcast was probably the easiest to program to out of all the consoles out there.
go into an Electronics Boutique.
Best Buy
Circuit City
anywhere that sells console games.
compare the amount of shelf space dedicated to PS2/1 games compared to the X-Box.
there's your winner, and i guarantee that its Sony's Playstation2 line, followed closely by the playstation1
getting shelf space in stores is hard to do. retailers will only give shelf space to what sells.
guess whats selling - the playstation games.
i'm going to be blunt about this -
the court decided that it DID harm consumers, and that MS acted illegally.
your "logic" is trumped by both the "findings of fact" and the "findings of law".
you kidding me? thats enough to buy the POTUS for the next 40 years.
>2) I am sure that it'd be handy for you to think
>the government was bought in this case. It
>wasn't. From the tone of your article though it
>doesn't sound like you are interested in the
>legal reasons that the DOJ settled
the legal reason to settle? for christs sakes, they've been CONVICTED of leveraging a monopoly illegally.
convicted. guilty.
do you give a convicted murderer probation? i dont think so.
amen.
kicked off the first truly big stock market bubble - electricity companies. bugs bunny numbers and valuations, just like the internet bubble.
followed shortly by the automobile and radio bubble.
the crash, boom, alakazam... Great Depression time....
well... at least this time, we dont have a horribly pro-big business president. doh.