The basic idea the EULA wants to convey is that we can do with the code whatever we want, as long as any products we create still require the original game to work. The idea is that we don't just remove the copyright protection, include (or replace) all the data from the game CD and distribute the game as freeware. Activision wants to make clear that open source doesn't necessarily equal freeware.
That basic idea would be fine, except the EULA doesn't even allow you to distribute "fixed" versions of the code! You are correct, The whole idea of releasing the source code is that we could use it to make CtP2 a better game, which would be rather pointless if the result couldn't be distributed. As I read the EULA, it specifically disallows this.
I never really expected the source to be released under a OSI-certified license. I am a great fan of the Civ games. I consider myself a competent C++ programmer. And, I am aware of several bugs in CTP2 that are probably trivial to fix. But, I won't be touching this code because of that EULA.
I didn't expect unrestricted access. I didn't think that I was owed anything.
I do know that CTP2 is one of my few PC games. I do know that a reason I never play it is that is full of niggling bugs - nothing that completely ruins the game, but there's lots of little cheats that spoil multiplayer games. Activion released the source. "Excellent," I thought, I can maybe fix some of those bugs and give away fixed copies of the game. People will still need the original CDs to play it because they contain the scenarios/graphics/sounds etc.
But with the EULA as it stands, that is impossible. If I gather a group of friends to fix bugs, we can't even setup a CVS server for revision control.
The CTP2 source code has no significant commercial value that would be impacted by its release. Activision has no desire to fix the outstanding bugs. Activision clearly sees a potentially valuable community of CTP2 fans, a community that would be enhanced by the source code release and subsequent fixes. They didn't need to give away the commercial rights to the code, nor any copyright. At least let us work with the code (and I'll need more than one copy to do that)!
This would be truly great, if not for the fact that the EULA is extremely restrictive.
For example:
You agree not to make copies of the Call to Power II Source Code or any part thereof, except for back up or archival purposes, or make copies of the materials accompanying the Call to Power II Source Code.
So that rules out distributing it, or any derivations. I guess you could distribute patches, but the main code would have to come from the original source.
You are explicitely allowed to distribute "New Game materials" (which I read as home-produced media files). But the source doesn't help in that regard anyway. You could always create new media based on evaluation of the original file formats.
It is ironic, because all domestic American beers taste worse than piss . With a few notable exceptions, the local microbreweries seem incapable of producing a balanced ale. So, buying a book locally about brewing the stuff is contrary to what would be expected.
The UCSD Campus bookstore regularly has second-hand textbooks at a higher price than new versions from England.
Looking at the shelf by my head, of the 26 books there, 18 were bought from England.
(about half are technical books, they all came from England. 25% are extreme sport guides and 25% are travel guides, most of these came from the US, and the remainder are popular science books, these all came from England. Oh, and there is a book about brewing real ale which, ironically, came from the US.)
I tried to order one, I'm not sure how long ago, maybe four or five months. I received a message that they couldn't ship it to a US address and I assumed that this was a function of being a region 2 DVD, although it might possibly be due to what the actual movie was. I can't remember what it was.
I bought my UK keyboard in the UK and brought it back to the US with me. That probably isn't very helpful but...
Have you tried Amazon.co.uk? The only things that they have refused to ship me are Region 2 DVDs. Admittedly, I haven't tried buying a keyboard from them.
[I think the parent post has been very unfairly moderated. Its message may not be true, but its still a perfectly valid _opinion_.]
Open source is based on the very principles of communism: everyone works on it, everyone owns it.
That not necessarily true. The main OSS project that I work on is available for anyone to use (or adapt, extend) but I still own it.
So, projects die as they become less "hot" to work on.
That project started in a closed setting. It had no value beyond solving a short-term internal need and having the potential of being useful for other people. Had nothing changed, the project would have died at that point. I petitioned my employer at the time to allow me to release the code publically. By virtue of being OSS it has not only lived on, but it has grown and matured significantly. But here is the magic point: if I never wrote another line of code for it, the new users will still be able to maintain it - and unlike proprietary software, it will never die...
I'd say that Proprietary software can die when the product is no longer "hot". If there is minimal commercial value... it won't be developed.
There are two types of people. Those like me, who hate receiving unsolicited calls at inconvenient times. And those who would quite like to hear offers for cheaper long-distance calling plans or free subscriptions to the local newspaper, or whatever.
People in the first class will never ever buy anything as a result of a telemarketing call. People in the second class most likely will.
People in the first class will place themselves on the don not call list. People in the second won't bother.
Telemarketers will then have a list of numbers where for which they would be simply wating their time. Their "hit-rate" will be significantly improved. How is that possibly a bad thing for them?
Of course, I don't have a business studies degree, so I might just be naive.
At my previous home, the garbage men wouldn't collect any garbage if it required them to go onto private property. I had a small lawn at the front of the house, and I had to move the trashcan from one end of the lawn to the other to get it collected. I didn't really have a problem with this . The ironic bit was that the garbage men would then walk _across_ my lawn (i.e. closer to where the trashcan would have been anyway) to get to my neighbours because that was the quickest route. I never did get around to complaining...
It is reassuring to see that most of these high-flyers don't waste their time with recycling. Who was that moron putting dead batteries in his trash? Geesh.
She gives five stars to a men's electric razor on October 14. She gives five stars to _another_ men's electric razor on November 26.
Prehaps she should wait a while between trying a product for the first time and reviewing it. If my razor needed replacing after just 5 weeks, I certianly wouldn't want to give it 5 stars.;-)
How is the process of blocking Ads protecting my privacy?
Re:Parent is not "informative," parent is "Wrong"
on
My Compost Bin And I
·
· Score: 2
Wet compost is bad. Compost must be moist in order to work. Wet compost gets moldy, mold is bad.
Compost that is frequently or constantly wet won't be good, I agree. But rain isn't a problem, even somewhere really wet, like Britian... providing there is apply drainage. I have had four compost bins in Britian (not all at the same time!) and only one was covered -- that was covered to avoid being too attractive urban foxes and other vermin.
Heat is good. The bacteria that make compost go like heat
Yes, warmth is good. But the compost generates its own heat. Constant warmth is important (i.e. avoid heating excessively during the day and then freezing in the frost overnight) - A shaded, fairly well sheltered, location will allow a more constant temperature.
Worm composting is an entirely different process from bacterial composting.
Very true. I forgot to mention that you get lots of free fishing bait too;)
You have made that much abundantly clear.
Don't be cheeky. I know enough to make sufficient compost that I'm unable to use it all myself in my own small garden.
1) Who cares about the compost getting wet when it rains? So long as the drainage is fairly good, a bit of rain won't hurt.
2) It looks like it is sitting in the sun. That's going to really stink in the summer. Instead of being a nice place friendly mold/fungi/insects to hang out, it is just going to attact wasps and roaches in the summer.
3) How do the worms get in? Worms really help to make good compost. They mix it around, while eating much nasty bacteria.
Not that I'm an expert in composting or anything. He should have just cut a couple of 6 inch holes in the bottom of his box and sat it on some soil.
...beer. It just makes you drowsy, and you'll need to visit the restroom more often. Apparently 2 monitors can help though....vodka. Just drink the redbull neat. Tastes disgusting, but think of it as pennance for leaving your final CS-project to the last two days.
I have 3 online bank/credit card accounts in the UK. 2 work perfectly well with mozilla (although one does pop up a dialog window stating that the browser is unsupported). The third refuses to work with mozilla. However, getting mozilla to pretend that it is IE6 makes the site work perfectly. I even phoned the customer support line once to ask why this is the case. They didn't have a clue abput what I was wittering on about.
I have one online credit union account in the US. That works perfectly with Mozilla. Unfortunately the service in the real branch is cronically bad. And, I had to pay for books of checks (sic) which I have no intention of ever using. And, the interest is paid at a rate so low that it might as well be zero. And they won't let me open a share dealing account because my credit history isn't good enough (!). Did I mention that I think that in the US, we banking consumers get totally screwed?
...what if another company tries to sell you GPL software but you must agree to its NDA...
In that case the company would be SELLING (i.e. distributing) software. I wouldn't be an agent of the company, which is what the sticky issue is here. That clearly would be a violation of the GPL.
This ground has already been covered, but you clearly put a lot of effort into your reply, so I think that providing a reponse is the polite thing to do.
The initial question is whether the GPL has been violated by the UL guys as a result of their closed beta with an NDA. Such closed betas are not uncommon, even of GPL'd code. It is apparent that some of us believe this to be legal, others don't. I think everyone agrees up to the point where we ask whether a closed beta is distribution, or not. There is a fine line to be drawn.
I am in the camp that believes that as a result of the NDA, the beta-testers should be considered as part of the organisation preparing the software for release. Therefore, the GPL is not violated since the software is only being distributed internally, which I think everyone agrees is allowed.
Other people (probably the majority) believe that the beta-testers are not part of the organisation and therefore the GPL is clearly violated.
It would be nice to know which side of the argument is correct.
In UL's case the spirit of the GPL isn't broken anyway because they have already announced that all source will be freely available for download once they are ready to make a proper release.
Slashdot Mirror
Except it is almost impossible to get a UPS mailbox if you aren't a legal US resident. I guess The Mail Box is the same.
Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot to put the ;-) smilie again...
Geesh.
They couldn't have thought that it would seriously compete with vi, could they?
The basic idea the EULA wants to convey is that we can do with the code whatever we want, as long as any products we create still require the original game to work. The idea is that we don't just remove the copyright protection, include (or replace) all the data from the game CD and distribute the game as freeware. Activision wants to make clear that open source doesn't necessarily equal freeware.
That basic idea would be fine, except the EULA doesn't even allow you to distribute "fixed" versions of the code! You are correct, The whole idea of releasing the source code is that we could use it to make CtP2 a better game, which would be rather pointless if the result couldn't be distributed. As I read the EULA, it specifically disallows this.
I never really expected the source to be released under a OSI-certified license. I am a great fan of the Civ games. I consider myself a competent C++ programmer. And, I am aware of several bugs in CTP2 that are probably trivial to fix. But, I won't be touching this code because of that EULA.
I am disappointed? Yes.
I didn't expect unrestricted access. I didn't think that I was owed anything.
I do know that CTP2 is one of my few PC games. I do know that a reason I never play it is that is full of niggling bugs - nothing that completely ruins the game, but there's lots of little cheats that spoil multiplayer games. Activion released the source. "Excellent," I thought, I can maybe fix some of those bugs and give away fixed copies of the game. People will still need the original CDs to play it because they contain the scenarios/graphics/sounds etc.
But with the EULA as it stands, that is impossible. If I gather a group of friends to fix bugs, we can't even setup a CVS server for revision control.
The CTP2 source code has no significant commercial value that would be impacted by its release. Activision has no desire to fix the outstanding bugs. Activision clearly sees a potentially valuable community of CTP2 fans, a community that would be enhanced by the source code release and subsequent fixes. They didn't need to give away the commercial rights to the code, nor any copyright. At least let us work with the code (and I'll need more than one copy to do that)!
This would be truly great, if not for the fact that the EULA is extremely restrictive.
For example: You agree not to make copies of the Call to Power II Source Code or any part thereof, except for back up or archival purposes, or make copies of the materials accompanying the Call to Power II Source Code.
So that rules out distributing it, or any derivations. I guess you could distribute patches, but the main code would have to come from the original source.
You are explicitely allowed to distribute "New Game materials" (which I read as home-produced media files). But the source doesn't help in that regard anyway. You could always create new media based on evaluation of the original file formats.
I am disappointed...
Whoops, should have previewed! The "all domestic American beers taste worse than piss" phrase should have been surrounded by a pair.
It is ironic, because all domestic American beers taste worse than piss . With a few notable exceptions, the local microbreweries seem incapable of producing a balanced ale. So, buying a book locally about brewing the stuff is contrary to what would be expected.
The UCSD Campus bookstore regularly has second-hand textbooks at a higher price than new versions from England.
Looking at the shelf by my head, of the 26 books there, 18 were bought from England.
(about half are technical books, they all came from England. 25% are extreme sport guides and 25% are travel guides, most of these came from the US, and the remainder are popular science books, these all came from England. Oh, and there is a book about brewing real ale which, ironically, came from the US.)
I tried to order one, I'm not sure how long ago, maybe four or five months. I received a message that they couldn't ship it to a US address and I assumed that this was a function of being a region 2 DVD, although it might possibly be due to what the actual movie was. I can't remember what it was.
I bought my UK keyboard in the UK and brought it back to the US with me. That probably isn't very helpful but...
Have you tried Amazon.co.uk? The only things that they have refused to ship me are Region 2 DVDs. Admittedly, I haven't tried buying a keyboard from them.
[I think the parent post has been very unfairly moderated. Its message may not be true, but its still a perfectly valid _opinion_.]
Open source is based on the very principles of communism: everyone works on it, everyone owns it.
That not necessarily true. The main OSS project that I work on is available for anyone to use (or adapt, extend) but I still own it.
So, projects die as they become less "hot" to work on.
That project started in a closed setting. It had no value beyond solving a short-term internal need and having the potential of being useful for other people. Had nothing changed, the project would have died at that point. I petitioned my employer at the time to allow me to release the code publically. By virtue of being OSS it has not only lived on, but it has grown and matured significantly. But here is the magic point: if I never wrote another line of code for it, the new users will still be able to maintain it - and unlike proprietary software, it will never die...
I'd say that Proprietary software can die when the product is no longer "hot". If there is minimal commercial value... it won't be developed.
There are two types of people. Those like me, who hate receiving unsolicited calls at inconvenient times. And those who would quite like to hear offers for cheaper long-distance calling plans or free subscriptions to the local newspaper, or whatever.
People in the first class will never ever buy anything as a result of a telemarketing call. People in the second class most likely will.
People in the first class will place themselves on the don not call list. People in the second won't bother.
Telemarketers will then have a list of numbers where for which they would be simply wating their time. Their "hit-rate" will be significantly improved. How is that possibly a bad thing for them?
Of course, I don't have a business studies degree, so I might just be naive.
...has reached it's destination. That's 100% of the messages I read. ;)
At my previous home, the garbage men wouldn't collect any garbage if it required them to go onto private property. I had a small lawn at the front of the house, and I had to move the trashcan from one end of the lawn to the other to get it collected. I didn't really have a problem with this . The ironic bit was that the garbage men would then walk _across_ my lawn (i.e. closer to where the trashcan would have been anyway) to get to my neighbours because that was the quickest route. I never did get around to complaining...
It is reassuring to see that most of these high-flyers don't waste their time with recycling. Who was that moron putting dead batteries in his trash? Geesh.
Well I'm paying $8.50 per shot in San Diego. Each of the three closest places charge this. Do I smell a cartel?
She gives five stars to a men's electric razor on October 14.
;-)
She gives five stars to _another_ men's electric razor on November 26.
Prehaps she should wait a while between trying a product for the first time and reviewing it. If my razor needed replacing after just 5 weeks, I certianly wouldn't want to give it 5 stars.
Maybe I am being naive, but...
How is the process of blocking Ads protecting my privacy?
Wet compost is bad. Compost must be moist in order to work. Wet compost gets moldy, mold is bad.
;)
Compost that is frequently or constantly wet won't be good, I agree. But rain isn't a problem, even somewhere really wet, like Britian... providing there is apply drainage. I have had four compost bins in Britian (not all at the same time!) and only one was covered -- that was covered to avoid being too attractive urban foxes and other vermin.
Heat is good. The bacteria that make compost go like heat
Yes, warmth is good. But the compost generates its own heat. Constant warmth is important (i.e. avoid heating excessively during the day and then freezing in the frost overnight) - A shaded, fairly well sheltered, location will allow a more constant temperature.
Worm composting is an entirely different process from bacterial composting.
Very true. I forgot to mention that you get lots of free fishing bait too
You have made that much abundantly clear.
Don't be cheeky. I know enough to make sufficient compost that I'm unable to use it all myself in my own small garden.
1) Who cares about the compost getting wet when it rains? So long as the drainage is fairly good, a bit of rain won't hurt.
2) It looks like it is sitting in the sun. That's going to really stink in the summer. Instead of being a nice place friendly mold/fungi/insects to hang out, it is just going to attact wasps and roaches in the summer.
3) How do the worms get in? Worms really help to make good compost. They mix it around, while eating much nasty bacteria.
Not that I'm an expert in composting or anything. He should have just cut a couple of 6 inch holes in the bottom of his box and sat it on some soil.
...beer. It just makes you drowsy, and you'll need to visit the restroom more often. Apparently 2 monitors can help though. ...vodka. Just drink the redbull neat. Tastes disgusting, but think of it as pennance for leaving your final CS-project to the last two days.
I have 3 online bank/credit card accounts in the UK. 2 work perfectly well with mozilla (although one does pop up a dialog window stating that the browser is unsupported). The third refuses to work with mozilla. However, getting mozilla to pretend that it is IE6 makes the site work perfectly. I even phoned the customer support line once to ask why this is the case. They didn't have a clue abput what I was wittering on about.
I have one online credit union account in the US. That works perfectly with Mozilla. Unfortunately the service in the real branch is cronically bad. And, I had to pay for books of checks (sic) which I have no intention of ever using. And, the interest is paid at a rate so low that it might as well be zero. And they won't let me open a share dealing account because my credit history isn't good enough (!). Did I mention that I think that in the US, we banking consumers get totally screwed?
...what if another company tries to sell you GPL software but you must agree to its NDA...
In that case the company would be SELLING (i.e. distributing) software. I wouldn't be an agent of the company, which is what the sticky issue is here. That clearly would be a violation of the GPL.
This ground has already been covered, but you clearly put a lot of effort into your reply, so I think that providing a reponse is the polite thing to do.
The initial question is whether the GPL has been violated by the UL guys as a result of their closed beta with an NDA. Such closed betas are not uncommon, even of GPL'd code. It is apparent that some of us believe this to be legal, others don't. I think everyone agrees up to the point where we ask whether a closed beta is distribution, or not. There is a fine line to be drawn.
I am in the camp that believes that as a result of the NDA, the beta-testers should be considered as part of the organisation preparing the software for release. Therefore, the GPL is not violated since the software is only being distributed internally, which I think everyone agrees is allowed.
Other people (probably the majority) believe that the beta-testers are not part of the organisation and therefore the GPL is clearly violated.
It would be nice to know which side of the argument is correct.
In UL's case the spirit of the GPL isn't broken anyway because they have already announced that all source will be freely available for download once they are ready to make a proper release.