And we know how religiously microsoft folows those standards don't we.
It means nothing to submit something to a standards body when you have a history of ignoring the same bodies. If ECMA decided to do something with C# or CLI that MS didn't like MS would simply ignore them and "extend" the thing.
It's an empty gesture. What I would like to see if for MS to promise in writing that it will always obey the ECMA standards and will never extend or undermine it THAT would be news. Anything else is just a gimmick designed to fool the stupid.
"A very promising part of it all is ASP.NET (formerly ASP+) which has 'server-based GUI-elements'. This is really just a framework handling programmatic manipulation of forms, listboxes etc so you're finally not having to do Print "$e"; and so on. It gets especially handy handling tables listing data with alternating colors and such. "
Both cold fusion and webobjects have had this for a long time. There is a set of php classes that also do this with phplib (as well as a few others). It's good to see the microsoft asp developers finally get this neat technology after going a couple of years without it.
First of all it does not support java which is one of the most popular languages around. It's more correct to say that it only supports those languages which MS does not view as a threat.
Secondly each programmer will have to relearn their favorite language. There will be missing features or syntax changes in other words your familiar language has been bastardised to work in a.NET environment.
"1. Any Language. The.NET platform doesn't limit you in language choice"
It does not support one of the most popular languages on the planet JAVA.
So you are lying when you say any language. What you meant to say was any language except JAVA. Or perhaps any language except those that would help one of our competitors.
The problem with SOAP is that is says nothing about what's inside the package only what the package looks like. If your Nix machine gets a SOAP envelope containing a GUID what does it do with it? I guess throw it away.
The crux of the situation is that only windows servers will be able to decode SOAP envelopes which originate from other windows machines. SOAP and all the rest of the XML hype doesn't take into account that everybody has to agree on what the data is supposed to represent and since that will never happen it's pretty much useless as a cross paltform (more accurately a cross corporation) communication.
All this is silly. Think about it.
COM/acriveX is (was) supposed to be cross language what happened to that? Can't you write comm objects is c++ or VB and call them from perl and python? Why invent yet another thing to do the same?
Why communicate via http and XML with other windows machines when you can use DCOM or COM+ or whatever it is they are calling it these days.
Why write.NET apps when you can build activeX forms or controls and embed them in IE?
MS is throwing yet another gob of excrement on the wall hoping it sticks this time.
The problem is that your eiffel programmers will have to learn the new.NET version of Eiffel. They will also give up many of the features that they have grown accustomed to and rely on. In essence they will have to learn a whole new language which looks like eiffel but you can't program liek eiffel.
"I did not miss you point it's invalid, trading humanity's advancement in medical science to save a few lives, or a million or ten million is a pretty high price to pay"
Invention occured before the advent of IP and it would occur afterwards too. You present a false dichotomy. You have absolutely zero proof that if IP was ended today no new drugs would be invented. All you have is some conjecture.
So tell me how many people would have to die in your book before what the drugs companies are doing can be judged evil? If ten million people dying is just fine by you how about 100 million or a billion. How much does an epidemic have to escalate before you intervene?
My guess is that it depends on the proximity and the race of the people effected. 10 million blacks over there in africa don't count but 10 million americans or europians and it would be a different story altogether.
You seem to think that the blame is either 100% one way or 100% the other way. You are claiming that the tobacco companies share 0% of the blame for the guy's cancer.
I say the blame is shared. You can't absolve yourself of making addicting and lethal drugs and selling them and lobbying congress to keep it legal and hiding evidence and lying to congres during an investigation and advertising to kids and then claim it's all their fault.
So pick a percentage greater then zero and less then a hundred and be reasonable. I say the tobbacco companies at lear 40 to 50 percent resposible for the epidemic of sickness they have caused what do you say?
TO build a packaging system on top of this like you said would be trivial. Here for example is a simple way to do it.
In each app directory a file could be placed by the maintainer (lets call it appinfo) this could be a simple perl hash or an xml document describing the package and the dependencies as well as the home page of the document. Here is simplified example. If you download the source yourself and install it yourself then encap can still make the links for you and the pakager will know about it simply by reading the/opt directory. It would be simple to build your own appinfo file too in case other packages depend on it.
Like I said the transport mechanism could be httpsync
The encap (or like) program could simply invoke httpsync and download the package, check for dependencies and keep calling httpsync to install the dependencies if they don't exist.
The beauty of it all is that the work is already done. Httpsync as well as CVSUP, rsync etc already exist all you need is a relatively simple perl script and you are done.
The tricky part is to get maintainers who are willing to compile the app and serve it using whatever.
Not everybody has to contribute, not all cotributions are code. The nature of generosity is to give things away without expecting anything in return. You don't have to be generous or kind or pleasant (and you are not!) but that's cool to each his own.
Linux may not be groundbreaking (although some things in the open source world are IMHO) but it's nice and I like it and I use it and I'm grateful.
It's not freeloading to use things given to you with an open heart. It's why it's there.
I don't tell my plumber to work for free but if he volunteered to work for free I would not berate him or call him a communist. I have helped many people and may people have helped me in my life somehow it never occured to me to call those people communist, anarchists, or hypocrites. I usually said good things about them and thanked them profusely and usually said something like "if there is anything I can do for you please don't hesitate to ask".
I guess you and me are different in that way. You see someone committing an act of generosity and you lash out at them and call them names. Me I admire them and try to emulate them.
BTW. I charge my clients, wave the free software flag, use free software and write some inconsequencial code that I give away to anybody who asks for it. To me these are not contradictory actions. I don't see life in the same black and white terms that you do. I guess I am able to recognize subleties in the fabric of life, society and economy.
BTW communism is a political affliation. As far as I know it's an extreme minority of the US. The chances of a poster actually being a communist is pretty damned small. Like most people they are either republican, democrat or independent.
That's crap. It cost e-toy and the people involved with them plenty. You seem to underestimate the mental anguish a lawsuit by a giant corporation with billions dollars causes. Even if as you say e-toys paid their lawyers fees how did they compensate them for the stress and the sleepless nights.
It's not slander if it's true. If you do crappy sleazy things expect to get yelled at and critizied (at a minimum). Sorry bub that's life. As a corporation you get a ton of benefits and a relatively free ride from the legal and political system. A bunch of people yelling at you because you chose to act stupid is not mush of a burden. As for the Dos attacks well sorry I may not like them but you are not the only victims and there is very little anybody can do (ask zdnet and microsoft).
This is very easy to do. Here is a way I have thought of I'm sure other people can come up something even better.
1) Every application must reside in it's own directory in/opt or/usr/local.
2) The directory must be named nameofapp.ver
3) Inside the app directory ther may exist./man./etc./var./lib
4)./var is actually a symlink to/var/nameofapp.ver
5) all the files are them symlined to/usr/bin/man/etc or whever (there are already a couple of systems that do this).
The beauty of this system is that it's very easy to implement because it's just a matter of specifying a --prefix.
If you need to roll back to a previous version you simply relink the old directory.
You don't need a database just doing a ls on the/opt directory tells you every package installed.
You don't need to compile in fact you can use httpsync or cvsup to fetch the files directly from a url.
Easy, simple, human readable, human fixable what else can you ask for.
The sleazy part was suing people for nothing. You think it's easy to be sued by a pack of hungry corporate lawyers? You have any idea of how much anguish was visited on people that were sued not to mention how much it cost them?
So what if the parents got angry all they had to tell them was that they were going to the wrong place.
Actually I just thought of an alternative to suing. You could unionize their employees. That would truly piss them off and maybe even get some severance pay some of the employees who will lose their jobs.
Revenge is justified this time. As far as wasting the court's time well too freaking bad. The corporations waste the courts time so why shouln't the victims of those same corporations have the same right. Besides what is the alternative if you have been screwed over good by a sleazy corporation like E-toys? You can't break their legs you have to take them to court.
E-toys brought this on themselves. They deserve everything they get.
Their failure had nothing to do with their overzealous attack on e-toy. They deserve any and all punishment coming to them from e-toy. Only an idiot would let an attack like that go without hitting back.
This company is a classic example of a.com whose only reason for existance was to rip off as many investors as possible. If they had just stuck with that I would'nt care so what if a few suckers lost all their money and the CEOs raked in. But to attack other people just to attack them over something as stupid as e-toy remains a truly evil act. Evil must be punished otherwise it multiplies.
The exact same thing can be said of the corporations. You average McDonalds president, vice president, ceo or whatever makes millions of dollars while paying their employees minimum wage. Corrpution occurs everywhere large amounts of money are exchanged wheather it be govt, corporation or union. In the case of a union the average Joe at least gets something (no matter how small). Maybe it's better wages or better vacation time or better working standards. You McDonalds employee get nothing except the right to be fired whenever the manager feels like it. Either way tho the fatcats live like kings and the shmucks do the dirty work.
I will repeat. If you don't like the way a corporation is acting, if you don't approve of the way it treats its employees, the nevironment, or the public at large the absolute biggest punishment you can visit on them is to organize their employees. If you do so those fatcat CEOs will curse your name every night before they go to sleep.
Presuming everything you say is true. Does that mean that every union is corrupt? Every union member works for minimum wage and squalor.
The fact is companies hate unions because it empowers the employees. Pretty soon then start asking for more money or better hours and if they stand united the company has to fight them or give in. In the old days the companies broke knees these days they sue you.
The fact remains if you don't like the way a company is behaving the absolute worst action you can take against them is to try to recruit their employees in a union. IF they attempt to stop you you can sic the govt on them and if you succeed they will curse your name every night before they go to sleep.
Who the fuck cares man. If you like windows so much go hang out at Devx or microsoft.com forums. Why do you feel the need to come here and karma whore by
1) Critising slashdot
2) praising windows.
Every pro MS post was modded up to 5. What the fuck else do you want?
If you work for an unethical (ok downright evil) corporation like Microsoft you are helping them perpetuate that evil. No matter how insignifact your job is you are a cog in the machinary that perpetuates evil.
Who cares about the emotions of the some drone surely their emotions did nothing to stop Ms from screwing over everybody who came in contact with them.
Re:You must not do anything interesting on them
on
Microsoft's DNS Down
·
· Score: 1
You are absolutely right. Try taking the same hardware and install BSD or Solaris on it and see if it crashes just as regularly. Having done this several times I can state without hesitaion that the same hardware that breaks windows repeatedly works flawylessly under linux or freebsd.
Windows has a lot of hardware incompatibility problems especially with dells and compaqs (some of the best selling computers).
As for you other point yes it's certainly true that windows suffers from a woeful lack of drivers. Almost any hardware you install has to have drivers from the manufacturer and most of them are buggy and crash your system. To this day I don't have one signed driver in my W2K machine because the manufacturers have not gotten around to supporting it yet.
Running W2K on a recent model (PIII 700) Dell has proven to be a nighmare of stability for me. OTOH a slightly older dell (pIII450) runs linux flawlessly and never crashes and burns despite running a 50 gig postgres database, a web server, X, and doing regular developement.
MS really ought to crack down hard on Dell and compaq and of course the video and audio people.
Maybe it's easier to write drivers for linux or something who knows.
I'm glad you had such nice experiences. I myself had horrible experiences with it. Maybe it's because you are such an expert on w2k. I guess w2k is not so easy to install, setup and use by an average person. It obviously requires some registry hacks or something because I can't find the tab with the button on it that says "please make me stop rebooting randomly 5 times a week".
Slashdot Mirror
And we know how religiously microsoft folows those standards don't we.
It means nothing to submit something to a standards body when you have a history of ignoring the same bodies. If ECMA decided to do something with C# or CLI that MS didn't like MS would simply ignore them and "extend" the thing.
It's an empty gesture. What I would like to see if for MS to promise in writing that it will always obey the ECMA standards and will never extend or undermine it THAT would be news. Anything else is just a gimmick designed to fool the stupid.
"A very promising part of it all is ASP.NET (formerly ASP+) which has 'server-based GUI-elements'. This is really just a framework handling programmatic manipulation of forms, listboxes etc so you're finally not having to do Print "$e"; and so on. It gets especially handy handling tables listing data with alternating colors and such. "
Both cold fusion and webobjects have had this for a long time. There is a set of php classes that also do this with phplib (as well as a few others). It's good to see the microsoft asp developers finally get this neat technology after going a couple of years without it.
I really could use them. I want to post a buttload of vb apps to linux.
You don't need to be brilliant hacker to bitchslap a corp. Just go organize their employees, that's right form a union and they'll hate you forever.
First of all it does not support java which is one of the most popular languages around. It's more correct to say that it only supports those languages which MS does not view as a threat.
.NET environment.
Secondly each programmer will have to relearn their favorite language. There will be missing features or syntax changes in other words your familiar language has been bastardised to work in a
"1. Any Language. The .NET platform doesn't limit you in language choice"
It does not support one of the most popular languages on the planet JAVA.
So you are lying when you say any language. What you meant to say was any language except JAVA. Or perhaps any language except those that would help one of our competitors.
The problem with SOAP is that is says nothing about what's inside the package only what the package looks like. If your Nix machine gets a SOAP envelope containing a GUID what does it do with it? I guess throw it away.
.NET apps when you can build activeX forms or controls and embed them in IE?
The crux of the situation is that only windows servers will be able to decode SOAP envelopes which originate from other windows machines. SOAP and all the rest of the XML hype doesn't take into account that everybody has to agree on what the data is supposed to represent and since that will never happen it's pretty much useless as a cross paltform (more accurately a cross corporation) communication.
All this is silly. Think about it.
COM/acriveX is (was) supposed to be cross language what happened to that? Can't you write comm objects is c++ or VB and call them from perl and python? Why invent yet another thing to do the same?
Why communicate via http and XML with other windows machines when you can use DCOM or COM+ or whatever it is they are calling it these days.
Why write
MS is throwing yet another gob of excrement on the wall hoping it sticks this time.
The problem is that your eiffel programmers will have to learn the new .NET version of Eiffel. They will also give up many of the features that they have grown accustomed to and rely on. In essence they will have to learn a whole new language which looks like eiffel but you can't program liek eiffel.
"I did not miss you point it's invalid, trading humanity's advancement in medical science to save a few lives, or a million or ten million is a pretty high price to pay"
Invention occured before the advent of IP and it would occur afterwards too. You present a false dichotomy. You have absolutely zero proof that if IP was ended today no new drugs would be invented. All you have is some conjecture.
So tell me how many people would have to die in your book before what the drugs companies are doing can be judged evil? If ten million people dying is just fine by you how about 100 million or a billion. How much does an epidemic have to escalate before you intervene?
My guess is that it depends on the proximity and the race of the people effected. 10 million blacks over there in africa don't count but 10 million americans or europians and it would be a different story altogether.
You seem to think that the blame is either 100% one way or 100% the other way. You are claiming that the tobacco companies share 0% of the blame for the guy's cancer.
I say the blame is shared. You can't absolve yourself of making addicting and lethal drugs and selling them and lobbying congress to keep it legal and hiding evidence and lying to congres during an investigation and advertising to kids and then claim it's all their fault.
So pick a percentage greater then zero and less then a hundred and be reasonable. I say the tobbacco companies at lear 40 to 50 percent resposible for the epidemic of sickness they have caused what do you say?
TO build a packaging system on top of this like you said would be trivial. Here for example is a simple way to do it.
/opt directory. It would be simple to build your own appinfo file too in case other packages depend on it.
,url=http:/anotherurl}
In each app directory a file could be placed by the maintainer (lets call it appinfo) this could be a simple perl hash or an xml document describing the package and the dependencies as well as the home page of the document. Here is simplified example. If you download the source yourself and install it yourself then encap can still make the links for you and the pakager will know about it simply by reading the
name = myapp
version = 1.001
url = http://myapp.com/installer/
depends = { name = somelib,version=2.001, url = http://someurl }
depends = {name = anotherlib, version=3.02
Like I said the transport mechanism could be httpsync
The encap (or like) program could simply invoke httpsync and download the package, check for dependencies and keep calling httpsync to install the dependencies if they don't exist.
The beauty of it all is that the work is already done. Httpsync as well as CVSUP, rsync etc already exist all you need is a relatively simple perl script and you are done.
The tricky part is to get maintainers who are willing to compile the app and serve it using whatever.
Not everybody has to contribute, not all cotributions are code. The nature of generosity is to give things away without expecting anything in return. You don't have to be generous or kind or pleasant (and you are not!) but that's cool to each his own.
Linux may not be groundbreaking (although some things in the open source world are IMHO) but it's nice and I like it and I use it and I'm grateful.
It's not freeloading to use things given to you with an open heart. It's why it's there.
I don't tell my plumber to work for free but if he volunteered to work for free I would not berate him or call him a communist. I have helped many people and may people have helped me in my life somehow it never occured to me to call those people communist, anarchists, or hypocrites. I usually said good things about them and thanked them profusely and usually said something like "if there is anything I can do for you please don't hesitate to ask".
I guess you and me are different in that way. You see someone committing an act of generosity and you lash out at them and call them names. Me I admire them and try to emulate them.
BTW. I charge my clients, wave the free software flag, use free software and write some inconsequencial code that I give away to anybody who asks for it. To me these are not contradictory actions. I don't see life in the same black and white terms that you do. I guess I am able to recognize subleties in the fabric of life, society and economy.
BTW communism is a political affliation. As far as I know it's an extreme minority of the US. The chances of a poster actually being a communist is pretty damned small. Like most people they are either republican, democrat or independent.
Go be sure to patent it first. A good corporation steals things the right way.
That's crap. It cost e-toy and the people involved with them plenty. You seem to underestimate the mental anguish a lawsuit by a giant corporation with billions dollars causes. Even if as you say e-toys paid their lawyers fees how did they compensate them for the stress and the sleepless nights.
It's not slander if it's true. If you do crappy sleazy things expect to get yelled at and critizied (at a minimum). Sorry bub that's life. As a corporation you get a ton of benefits and a relatively free ride from the legal and political system. A bunch of people yelling at you because you chose to act stupid is not mush of a burden. As for the Dos attacks well sorry I may not like them but you are not the only victims and there is very little anybody can do (ask zdnet and microsoft).
This is very easy to do. Here is a way I have thought of I'm sure other people can come up something even better.
/opt or /usr/local.
./man ./etc ./var ./lib
./var is actually a symlink to /var/nameofapp.ver
/usr/bin /man /etc or whever (there are already a couple of systems that do this).
/opt directory tells you every package installed.
1) Every application must reside in it's own directory in
2) The directory must be named nameofapp.ver
3) Inside the app directory ther may exist
4)
5) all the files are them symlined to
The beauty of this system is that it's very easy to implement because it's just a matter of specifying a --prefix.
If you need to roll back to a previous version you simply relink the old directory.
You don't need a database just doing a ls on the
You don't need to compile in fact you can use httpsync or cvsup to fetch the files directly from a url.
Easy, simple, human readable, human fixable what else can you ask for.
The sleazy part was suing people for nothing. You think it's easy to be sued by a pack of hungry corporate lawyers? You have any idea of how much anguish was visited on people that were sued not to mention how much it cost them?
So what if the parents got angry all they had to tell them was that they were going to the wrong place.
Actually I just thought of an alternative to suing. You could unionize their employees. That would truly piss them off and maybe even get some severance pay some of the employees who will lose their jobs.
Revenge is justified this time. As far as wasting the court's time well too freaking bad. The corporations waste the courts time so why shouln't the victims of those same corporations have the same right. Besides what is the alternative if you have been screwed over good by a sleazy corporation like E-toys? You can't break their legs you have to take them to court.
E-toys brought this on themselves. They deserve everything they get.
Their failure had nothing to do with their overzealous attack on e-toy. They deserve any and all punishment coming to them from e-toy. Only an idiot would let an attack like that go without hitting back.
.com whose only reason for existance was to rip off as many investors as possible. If they had just stuck with that I would'nt care so what if a few suckers lost all their money and the CEOs raked in. But to attack other people just to attack them over something as stupid as e-toy remains a truly evil act. Evil must be punished otherwise it multiplies.
This company is a classic example of a
The exact same thing can be said of the corporations. You average McDonalds president, vice president, ceo or whatever makes millions of dollars while paying their employees minimum wage. Corrpution occurs everywhere large amounts of money are exchanged wheather it be govt, corporation or union. In the case of a union the average Joe at least gets something (no matter how small). Maybe it's better wages or better vacation time or better working standards. You McDonalds employee get nothing except the right to be fired whenever the manager feels like it. Either way tho the fatcats live like kings and the shmucks do the dirty work.
I will repeat. If you don't like the way a corporation is acting, if you don't approve of the way it treats its employees, the nevironment, or the public at large the absolute biggest punishment you can visit on them is to organize their employees. If you do so those fatcat CEOs will curse your name every night before they go to sleep.
Presuming everything you say is true. Does that mean that every union is corrupt? Every union member works for minimum wage and squalor.
The fact is companies hate unions because it empowers the employees. Pretty soon then start asking for more money or better hours and if they stand united the company has to fight them or give in. In the old days the companies broke knees these days they sue you.
The fact remains if you don't like the way a company is behaving the absolute worst action you can take against them is to try to recruit their employees in a union. IF they attempt to stop you you can sic the govt on them and if you succeed they will curse your name every night before they go to sleep.
form a union = Bitchslap a corporation
Who the fuck cares man. If you like windows so much go hang out at Devx or microsoft.com forums. Why do you feel the need to come here and karma whore by
1) Critising slashdot
2) praising windows.
Every pro MS post was modded up to 5. What the fuck else do you want?
If you work for an unethical (ok downright evil) corporation like Microsoft you are helping them perpetuate that evil. No matter how insignifact your job is you are a cog in the machinary that perpetuates evil.
Who cares about the emotions of the some drone surely their emotions did nothing to stop Ms from screwing over everybody who came in contact with them.
You are absolutely right. Try taking the same hardware and install BSD or Solaris on it and see if it crashes just as regularly. Having done this several times I can state without hesitaion that the same hardware that breaks windows repeatedly works flawylessly under linux or freebsd.
Windows has a lot of hardware incompatibility problems especially with dells and compaqs (some of the best selling computers).
As for you other point yes it's certainly true that windows suffers from a woeful lack of drivers. Almost any hardware you install has to have drivers from the manufacturer and most of them are buggy and crash your system. To this day I don't have one signed driver in my W2K machine because the manufacturers have not gotten around to supporting it yet.
Running W2K on a recent model (PIII 700) Dell has proven to be a nighmare of stability for me. OTOH a slightly older dell (pIII450) runs linux flawlessly and never crashes and burns despite running a 50 gig postgres database, a web server, X, and doing regular developement.
MS really ought to crack down hard on Dell and compaq and of course the video and audio people.
Maybe it's easier to write drivers for linux or something who knows.
I'm glad you had such nice experiences. I myself had horrible experiences with it. Maybe it's because you are such an expert on w2k. I guess w2k is not so easy to install, setup and use by an average person. It obviously requires some registry hacks or something because I can't find the tab with the button on it that says "please make me stop rebooting randomly 5 times a week".