how about one that doesn't change very often...is very speed critical on selects, and can be backed up easily everytime it is changed.
I have never once seen mysql loose data...not once. **disclaimer...I haven't actualy done that much with mysql other than a few molecualr databases which are used in a real time production environment...I certainly can't make statements about massive inserts, rollbacks, transactions, etc....
I honestly believe for most small projects mysql is a good tool for the job.
No doubt. In fact you could almost turn it the other way around. if 100 slashdot trolls say x sucks...then you should probably go and by X.
However I do agree with the original poster that it doesn't have all the featuers of DB2 or Oracle, but it does seem to do quite well for a lot of application.
True...but they do have a reputation on the line...I am pretty sure that their rep is worth some really big dollar amount to them!
I can't really argue DB's because I honestly don't know that much about the internals..I am a developer who just tries to find the best tool for the job...in many situation...actually all situations were I have needed a db, mysql has fit...I am sure that others would have worked...perhpas better, but the overhead to learn and study would certainly not have been worth the time...for my apps.
Well I admit to not knowing "that" much about databases. I do however know enough to get by...also I think that the problem should determine the solution. If you don't need xyz then we pay for xyz? I guess there are situations were people don't really know what they need, but then I would guess that most people do.
guess so. All us stupid mysql people...like the guy's running yahoo finance...must not have any clue what we are doing.
say what you will but for our companies needs I guarantee you that MySQL is more than suffecient...we don't have a lot of changes on the db....plain and simple...a waste of money!..
But then you propbably know more about my companies db than I do so I will shut up now.
Hum....I manage our companies 4.5 million compounds database which contains ~4.5 million rows, and about 250 collumns in the laregest table. The entire database has roughly 40 tables....I have never had an issue with data integrity...granted my experience certainly can not be extrapolated to all environemets, but I can say that if I was given the authority...our $100,000 oracle system would be gone in a heart beat....waste of money with something as nice as MySQL out there. IMO
I disagree...I think that preople sub consiously like to be told what is the best...they don't have the drive or ambition to go figure it out for themselves.
ok a little sarcasm here....pay me what he gets paid and I will say that for you....I do love what I do, but I would love it a hell of a lot more if I had a few million dollars so that I would never have to worry again.
Your points are well taken...and I suspect that we had some initial misunderstanding...but I would like to very much clarify one thing I believe you to be totally be about.
"You couldn't possible be "on par with a CS graduate" who did any kind of serious CS course unless you did the exact same subjects"
That my friend is true arogance....what if I did the course work on my own? What If I enjoyed studying CS for the theory behend it as opposed to the application. What if I actually had more interest in some parts of CS that many CS students. Would you still believe that I would not be on par simply becuase I did not sit in the class room? You are totally right that if I was making broad sweeping statments that all science people could program like CS people then I would be a moron. I know some shitty programmers from science as well as CS. But for you to also asusme that you have to go to school in a CS curriclum to learn CS is just plain wrong. There are plenty of self motivated people in the world who will learn something simply because it fascinates them. I happen to treat CS very much like this. I have probably studied most everything that CS students do...and then many special topics...that would be more prone to graduate level work in CS....do I think I am as good as a CS phD no. I am not fresh out of school, I wouldn't claim that I left my PhD program being as good as all CS students...but being that I worked with many of them at a linux certification company and was very good friends with them then I can and will say that I know quite a lot about CS.
Now back to my original point many flame posts ago. Was that CS needs to be applied...just like math. Math majors don't make much money until they learn to apply it. All the fancy BSP, orhtoganal range search, Voronni, blah, blah algorithms are worthless until you understand when and were to applly them..unfortunatly 4 years of CS does not teach students all of the application areas. In fact time in colloge is such that it is hard for many people to really come out of their algorithms class with much more than a cursory glance of the area. Hell it is hard for me to really believe that people come out of CS knowing even a fraction of what there is to know....I sure as hell don't and I have been studying CS for about a decade now. My point was simply that if CS majors want to really seperate themselves from their peers then they should find a specialty area. Being that I consider myself a programmer more so than a chemist I would not aim to take cheep shots at programmers....all scientists could benifit from the type of logicall problem solving skills that programmers have. By and large I believe that programmers would make really good scientists, but I would not make that statement in reverese. However some scientific fields like computational chemistry of computational biology by necessity require that you be a good programmer. Not all "science" programmers are great, but many of us have enough of an interest in CS that we can and do learn what you learn in school, just like if you were really interested in quantum chemistry and it's computational aspects that you could over the course of a couple of years catch up and surpass many of the people who claim to be elite in that area....in fact you would bring totally new and different insights into the field that you would probably be very good at it...assuming that it was your interest.
So perhaps you should have listened more to my warning that I was not trying to offend anyone. I never said that a 16 year old had the same skills that someone with a CS degree has, but I do know a 16 year old who is very talented and knows things that are surprising for his age level...For instance I had an conversation with this kid about some inline assemble programming on the SSE2 regesiters that I was working on. Now he didn't totally understand the applic aplication are, but he had a pretty good grasp on the inline assembly and the SSE registers....how many CS graduates have
I agree with you. Tired of the doom and gloom. Life is tough and it always has been. Those that dedicate themselves to their profession will find work....how many english or history majors have a hard time finding jobs right out of school. At least programmers can get their feet wet in OSS...they can build something complex to show at an interview.
No the programmer is not going anywhere. Code monkeys may become a dime a dozen, but really good programmers are here to stay.
LOL! yeah dude. You are a riot. Now I will aim for offense I guess. I could and have learned everything and probably much much more about programming than you every did in your CS classes. If you are so smart and can learn what I know then by all means do it...get a job and quit fucking bitching about not haveing one.
There are tons of programmers implyod who right scientific software...you know what....we are by large all scientists first and programmers second. Most of the programming that is done is very basic and trivial. Some like game development, etc is extremely challenging...as is scientific programming. Me worried about all those smart people switching!! Please switch I am starting a scientific software company and will be needing some good talent...not some worthless ass code monkey who believes he learned how to be god in a CS curriclum...but someone who can code like you, yet think like a scientist. Someone who understands the finer points of drug discovery...oh and to take my position you are gonna be draggin your ass back to school and getting... **grasp** some higher education.
Oh what the hell...being in a good mood and all...I would like you to just name a few of the things/algorithms we do in computataional chemisty!. Perhaps it is the graphics end...must be trivial to someone who knows everything about computational geometry such as your self. Or the molecular mechanics forcefields which require a multitude of math and algorithms to type atoms, perform energy minimization, molecular dynamics, etc.... Oh and I am certain that you could learn quantum chemistry in 6 months! I guess if you don't have a job then perhaps you should get to learning there brainiac.
CS is made up of some really great programmes and engineers, but by and large (like any field) there is a ton of "ok" people that went there because the money was good.
Not sure about were to find your list. I do know that breaking into the game industry is tough...but I would guess that it is totally worth the battle. There are other areas were graphics programmers are needed. For instance I do a fair amount of opengl stuff for computational chemistry. Some pretty tough graphics problems there. Your site suggests you have some pretty good skills and I have no doubt that if you remain persistant you will find the break you are looking for....good luck to you!
I hope not. I hope you get a job. But perhaps this belief of deserving a job should go a way. What makes you different from your peers? what skills do you have that make you better than a person in India. Make your self different than the drones of CS students coming out of school. Become a super star on an open source project...you get the point. You are obviosly very bright to have finished a CS degree. So don't let it stop there...lots of bright people have finished CS degrees...be a great graphics programmer, AI, something other than just a BS in CS.
That is my advise. Take it or leave it. But don't believe that the world owes you or me or oneone anything. An education is an investment....many investments fail.
I agree with you totally. But lets be honest. It is not the software engineering jobs that are going over sees...as much as the standard code monkey jobs...which can be learned by pretty much anyone with the drive.
I never said that my job couldn't be learned by a 16 year old...however to be a good computational chemist one also has to have very strong math skills, very strong programming skills (Yes on par with CS graduates..if you want to be good), and very good chemistry skills.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not taking cheep shots at programmers...hell man/woman I consider my self a programmer more so than a chemist. My point is that it is easier to learn the skills to become an "effective" programmer than it is say a chemist. If you don't believe that then I can not help you.
Also many CS people assume that others in the sciences cannot "engineer" software like they can becuase we are not "trained" in the art. BS. People don't let your selves believe this. I have many friends from college that are CS majors and I don't think one of them would take a shot at my abilities or the people I went to school with abilities. Do CS graduates have skils we don't have? Of course they do! Can they show up and code what I code? Probably not....the expertise is needed in the field to fully understand the problem. Could CS majors write the code once they understood it? Yeah some could. Those that specialized in algorithm design. My advise is to never believe that you have a "special" skill that another cannot learn. With programming the barrier to entry is much lower than say bioinformatics or computational biology, or chemistry.....besides that if you get a specialty ara then you can devote your life to it...which for some is a good thing.
You are right there is a difference between hacking your way through a problem and really designing and implementing a lasting maintainable solution...but does managment know the difference? And for some projects does it realy matter? Never quit learning...know not another language..Learn anohther problem area. Make your self not an expert programmer, but an expert in an area that requires a bad ass programming...then be a bad ass programmer as well. I think this formula is one that will be very hard to beat.
I am a computational chemist....my quantum is not really up to par, but I have been writing code since I was 12...I am now 30. I have dveloped an entire CADD program including scripting, Molecular mechanics (AMBER based). Oh and it is all C++.
I can''t promise a set amount of time, but I would certainly be interested!
"So in the end, yes, the training mill of so-called 'computer science' were not adequately training programmers with the right skills to survive in this ever-evolving field, so we are stuck with all these job losses especially to those who learned only the skills of 'programming' and had no other field of study like yourself."
This realy was my point...I would never think that 2 years would make a good programmer....nor would I think a CS degree would make a good programmer. experience with the area of programming might go a long way tho. I also would not think that I could step into you job and do it...just as you couldn't step into mine (probably) There are many types of programmers....some like the poster above work on huge projects with millions of lines of code...my largest is about 30,000. My point is the good coders will flurish and the not so good ones will not. I wish us all luck, because we are all gonna need it.
Slashdot Mirror
how about one that doesn't change very often...is very speed critical on selects, and can be backed up easily everytime it is changed.
I have never once seen mysql loose data...not once.
**disclaimer...I haven't actualy done that much with mysql other than a few molecualr databases which are used in a real time production environment...I certainly can't make statements about massive inserts, rollbacks, transactions, etc....
I honestly believe for most small projects mysql is a good tool for the job.
No doubt. In fact you could almost turn it the other way around. if 100 slashdot trolls say x sucks...then you should probably go and by X.
However I do agree with the original poster that it doesn't have all the featuers of DB2 or Oracle, but it does seem to do quite well for a lot of application.
Probably closer to 95%! The other 5% is spent on slashdot.
True...but they do have a reputation on the line...I am pretty sure that their rep is worth some really big dollar amount to them!
I can't really argue DB's because I honestly don't know that much about the internals..I am a developer who just tries to find the best tool for the job...in many situation...actually all situations were I have needed a db, mysql has fit...I am sure that others would have worked...perhpas better, but the overhead to learn and study would certainly not have been worth the time...for my apps.
Cheers
Well I admit to not knowing "that" much about databases. I do however know enough to get by...also I think that the problem should determine the solution. If you don't need xyz then we pay for xyz? I guess there are situations were people don't really know what they need, but then I would guess that most people do.
just my last two cents!
guess so. All us stupid mysql people...like the guy's running yahoo finance...must not have any clue what we are doing.
say what you will but for our companies needs I guarantee you that MySQL is more than suffecient...we don't have a lot of changes on the db....plain and simple...a waste of money!..
But then you propbably know more about my companies db than I do so I will shut up now.
thanks
I agree totally....MySQl certinaly works well in our small pharmaceutical company...manages a 4.5 millionm compound database flawlessly.
Hum....I manage our companies 4.5 million compounds database which contains ~4.5 million rows, and about 250 collumns in the laregest table. The entire database has roughly 40 tables....I have never had an issue with data integrity...granted my experience certainly can not be extrapolated to all environemets, but I can say that if I was given the authority...our $100,000 oracle system would be gone in a heart beat....waste of money with something as nice as MySQL out there. IMO
Same reason all those damned red lights should be green when I get to them!
"I think we tipped her near $200"
Wow next time you need a waiter...look me up!
yeah...problem is all 6 gillion ners will want to cash in on the "great" cure.
Ah that is a refreashing thought! Kill the kiddies...kill the kiddies...MAHAHAHAHA
BTW for you over-the-top morons....kiddies was refering to script kiddies and not your average joe suburbia kiddie...get a life.
I disagree...I think that preople sub consiously like to be told what is the best...they don't have the drive or ambition to go figure it out for themselves.
IMHO
ok a little sarcasm here....pay me what he gets paid and I will say that for you....I do love what I do, but I would love it a hell of a lot more if I had a few million dollars so that I would never have to worry again.
You post however was insightful.
Your points are well taken...and I suspect that we had some initial misunderstanding...but I would like to very much clarify one thing I believe you to be totally be about.
"You couldn't possible be "on par with a CS graduate" who did any kind of serious CS course unless you did the exact same subjects"
That my friend is true arogance....what if I did the course work on my own? What If I enjoyed studying CS for the theory behend it as opposed to the application. What if I actually had more interest in some parts of CS that many CS students. Would you still believe that I would not be on par simply becuase I did not sit in the class room? You are totally right that if I was making broad sweeping statments that all science people could program like CS people then I would be a moron. I know some shitty programmers from science as well as CS. But for you to also asusme that you have to go to school in a CS curriclum to learn CS is just plain wrong. There are plenty of self motivated people in the world who will learn something simply because it fascinates them. I happen to treat CS very much like this. I have probably studied most everything that CS students do...and then many special topics...that would be more prone to graduate level work in CS....do I think I am as good as a CS phD no. I am not fresh out of school, I wouldn't claim that I left my PhD program being as good as all CS students...but being that I worked with many of them at a linux certification company and was very good friends with them then I can and will say that I know quite a lot about CS.
Now back to my original point many flame posts ago. Was that CS needs to be applied...just like math. Math majors don't make much money until they learn to apply it. All the fancy BSP, orhtoganal range search, Voronni, blah, blah algorithms are worthless until you understand when and were to applly them..unfortunatly 4 years of CS does not teach students all of the application areas. In fact time in colloge is such that it is hard for many people to really come out of their algorithms class with much more than a cursory glance of the area. Hell it is hard for me to really believe that people come out of CS knowing even a fraction of what there is to know....I sure as hell don't and I have been studying CS for about a decade now. My point was simply that if CS majors want to really seperate themselves from their peers then they should find a specialty area. Being that I consider myself a programmer more so than a chemist I would not aim to take cheep shots at programmers....all scientists could benifit from the type of logicall problem solving skills that programmers have. By and large I believe that programmers would make really good scientists, but I would not make that statement in reverese. However some scientific fields like computational chemistry of computational biology by necessity require that you be a good programmer. Not all "science" programmers are great, but many of us have enough of an interest in CS that we can and do learn what you learn in school, just like if you were really interested in quantum chemistry and it's computational aspects that you could over the course of a couple of years catch up and surpass many of the people who claim to be elite in that area....in fact you would bring totally new and different insights into the field that you would probably be very good at it...assuming that it was your interest.
So perhaps you should have listened more to my warning that I was not trying to offend anyone. I never said that a 16 year old had the same skills that someone with a CS degree has, but I do know a 16 year old who is very talented and knows things that are surprising for his age level...For instance I had an conversation with this kid about some inline assemble programming on the SSE2 regesiters that I was working on. Now he didn't totally understand the applic aplication are, but he had a pretty good grasp on the inline assembly and the SSE registers....how many CS graduates have
Wow! Someone with a clue.
I agree with you. Tired of the doom and gloom. Life is tough and it always has been. Those that dedicate themselves to their profession will find work....how many english or history majors have a hard time finding jobs right out of school. At least programmers can get their feet wet in OSS...they can build something complex to show at an interview.
No the programmer is not going anywhere. Code monkeys may become a dime a dozen, but really good programmers are here to stay.
LOL! yeah dude. You are a riot. Now I will aim for offense I guess. I could and have learned everything and probably much much more about programming than you every did in your CS classes. If you are so smart and can learn what I know then by all means do it...get a job and quit fucking bitching about not haveing one.
There are tons of programmers implyod who right scientific software...you know what....we are by large all scientists first and programmers second.
Most of the programming that is done is very basic and trivial. Some like game development, etc is extremely challenging...as is scientific programming. Me worried about all those smart people switching!! Please switch I am starting a scientific software company and will be needing some good talent...not some worthless ass code monkey who believes he learned how to be god in a CS curriclum...but someone who can code like you, yet think like a scientist. Someone who understands the finer points of drug discovery...oh and to take my position you are gonna be draggin your ass back to school and getting... **grasp** some higher education.
Oh what the hell...being in a good mood and all...I would like you to just name a few of the things/algorithms we do in computataional chemisty!. Perhaps it is the graphics end...must be trivial to someone who knows everything about computational geometry such as your self. Or the molecular mechanics forcefields which require a multitude of math and algorithms to type atoms, perform energy minimization, molecular dynamics, etc.... Oh and I am certain that you could learn quantum chemistry in 6 months! I guess if you don't have a job then perhaps you should get to learning there brainiac.
CS is made up of some really great programmes and engineers, but by and large (like any field) there is a ton of "ok" people that went there because the money was good.
oh I hope I offended you!
Not sure about were to find your list. I do know that breaking into the game industry is tough...but I would guess that it is totally worth the battle. There are other areas were graphics programmers are needed. For instance I do a fair amount of opengl stuff for computational chemistry. Some pretty tough graphics problems there. Your site suggests you have some pretty good skills and I have no doubt that if you remain persistant you will find the break you are looking for....good luck to you!
I hope not. I hope you get a job. But perhaps this belief of deserving a job should go a way. What makes you different from your peers? what skills do you have that make you better than a person in India. Make your self different than the drones of CS students coming out of school. Become a super star on an open source project...you get the point. You are obviosly very bright to have finished a CS degree. So don't let it stop there...lots of bright people have finished CS degrees...be a great graphics programmer, AI, something other than just a BS in CS.
That is my advise. Take it or leave it. But don't believe that the world owes you or me or oneone anything. An education is an investment....many investments fail.
Good luck to you.
I agree with you totally. But lets be honest. It is not the software engineering jobs that are going over sees...as much as the standard code monkey jobs...which can be learned by pretty much anyone with the drive.
I never said that my job couldn't be learned by a 16 year old...however to be a good computational chemist one also has to have very strong math skills, very strong programming skills (Yes on par with CS graduates..if you want to be good), and very good chemistry skills.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not taking cheep shots at programmers...hell man/woman I consider my self a programmer more so than a chemist. My point is that it is easier to learn the skills to become an "effective" programmer than it is say a chemist. If you don't believe that then I can not help you.
Also many CS people assume that others in the sciences cannot "engineer" software like they can becuase we are not "trained" in the art. BS. People don't let your selves believe this. I have many friends from college that are CS majors and I don't think one of them would take a shot at my abilities or the people I went to school with abilities. Do CS graduates have skils we don't have? Of course they do! Can they show up and code what I code? Probably not....the expertise is needed in the field to fully understand the problem. Could CS majors write the code once they understood it? Yeah some could. Those that specialized in algorithm design. My advise is to never believe that you have a "special" skill that another cannot learn. With programming the barrier to entry is much lower than say bioinformatics or computational biology, or chemistry.....besides that if you get a specialty ara then you can devote your life to it...which for some is a good thing.
You are right there is a difference between hacking your way through a problem and really designing and implementing a lasting maintainable solution...but does managment know the difference?
And for some projects does it realy matter? Never quit learning...know not another language..Learn anohther problem area. Make your self not an expert programmer, but an expert in an area that requires a bad ass programming...then be a bad ass programmer as well. I think this formula is one that will be very hard to beat.
Sorry again if I offended any one.
Hell Yes! tell me what I can do to help...
gnulnx@gmail.com
I am a computational chemist....my quantum is not really up to par, but I have been writing code since I was 12...I am now 30. I have dveloped an entire CADD program including scripting, Molecular mechanics (AMBER based). Oh and it is all C++.
I can''t promise a set amount of time, but I would certainly be interested!
Perhaps except that a lot of the code we write is on the fly....Management doesn't even knwo we do it...
"So in the end, yes, the training mill of so-called 'computer science' were not adequately training programmers with the right skills to survive in this ever-evolving field, so we are stuck with all these job losses especially to those who learned only the skills of 'programming' and had no other field of study like yourself."
This realy was my point...I would never think that 2 years would make a good programmer....nor would I think a CS degree would make a good programmer. experience with the area of programming might go a long way tho. I also would not think that I could step into you job and do it...just as you couldn't step into mine (probably) There are many types of programmers....some like the poster above work on huge projects with millions of lines of code...my largest is about 30,000. My point is the good coders will flurish and the not so good ones will not. I wish us all luck, because we are all gonna need it.