I clean this crap up every damn day and I have a plan.
First it requires the gathering of where to serve the papers, i.e. where are all these bastards hiding that make this stuff.
Secondly every bill I give someone for this junk will have attached the necessary forms to file a small-claims suit to recoup some of what they've paid to have their machine cleaned, along with an index of who's spyware was removed.
Let them all try to fight THOUSANDS of small claims filings in every district in the country. It should bury them.
Would any law types out there like to weigh in on the various flaws to my scheme as IANAL and I'm certain there is some problem with this I don't see.
"With the 'newer hardware, software' bit, you're straying somewhat from the original "Windows is so crap it's more cost effective to buy a new PC" hyperbole, imho."
Trust me, I deal with this on a daily basis, once you factor in the OS, patches, updates etc, and then the installed application software, its cheaper for someone to buy anew pc and hire me.us to transfer their data.
Once you factor in all the app reinstall time and applying updates/patches etc to something 2 years or more older, the cost of a new pc is not much more, and the benefits of newer hardware, software and things like warrantees make it more than worthwhile.
Lots more expensive around here, in the neighborhood of $120-$180 per hour depending, one heavy infection on a 2-3 year old machine could easily approach the cost of a POS Dell.
I've started recommending Mac's for people's internet needs.
"Always prevent the software from running *before* removing the files. Otherwise you are asking for problems."
Total agreement there, I generally will not start a cleanup without first purging all that stuff by putting the drive in a cage and accessing it from a laptop, after that you can proceed in relative safety.
I wonder when it becomes legal to curb-stomp the people who write these blasted things?
"Sometimes the best solution is to do a clean install and set up a proper backup and recovery protocol - but yes, doing so ultimately makes the services you provide obsolete (or very nearly so)"
Often that is the best solution, but also often more than the cost of a new pc, once you factor in all the application installs, updates, patches, etc etc etc.
I don't know about the parent but I be glad to make myself obsolete to most of the people I have to deal with.
Most Windows users seem to operate their machines with a level of common sense that would make handing out crack and handguns to middle-schoolers seem like a good idea.
Well first off, before anything else, I'd wipe out all the temp files, all of them, everywhere, all profiles. I'd also clear out the prefetch folder and anything that looks like a dump for non-necessary code.
Be real careful to check running services.
System Restore, I have concluded, is the devil and should not be trusted, it brings back evil as well as good. Best to turn it off until the machine is cleaned.
Make certain the recycler is emptied.
Check the add/remove programs, some of these nasties actually include easy uninstallers to be viewed as legitamate.
All else fails, get a young priest and an old priest.
"But for John Avg. Doe, what you just described is both a major pain in the ass as well as way over his head."
But lets say for sake of argument that the process mentioned is correct and reasonable complete, how is MS's app going to help a person needing a pro tech to fix his/her machine if the app doesn't get the same results as athe cleanup process? Not to mention that a machine already messed up is likely to but uncleanable without professional help. Why doesn't MS just fix its bloody vulnerabilities?
This app doesn't do Joe Avg. any good at all since it doesn't solve the bloody problem, it's just another band-aid, just a way for MS to dodge a lawsuit by saying "hey, we gave people a repair tool!"
"It COMPLIMENTS your set of tools...not replaces them."
Which is why it isn't really useful. I have several tools that compliment one another, but all that adds up to is needing to have 4 or 5 different apps scan 150000+ files (on average) one after the other to effectively clean a machine, rather than one app that gets 98% or more nasties in one sweep. This is the difference between 20-30 minutes and 2-3 hours, and often the difference between the customer fixing or replacing their 2 year old pc due to labor costs.
"We need to run at least 3 antispyware programs at work, and at least 2 antivirus programs before we feel confident that a computer is clean enough to return to the customer."
And that my friend is the reason that I've begun to recommend Mac's even tho I work for an MS partner. It has now become more cost effective to replace the machine than clean/repair it if it's a Windows box. Sad but true.
"EGM: Now imagine you've reached the 10th stage, and you're on your last life. Once you die and you put another quarter in, you don't just continue from there--you start all over.
Parker: Are you serious?
EGM: Yep. When you lose all your lives, you have to start over. You don't keep going.
Parker: And you guys back then were OK with this?"
Hehe, suck it punk, you with your continues and save points!
I remember slugging my way thru those classics like Defender and Galaga.
Imagine playing any new console game with nowhere to start but the beginning. Then we'd really see who had the skillz.
Slashdot Mirror
Broken by a 14 yr old in 5...4...3...2...
Three words: camera phone, blackmail
So they plan to filter filesharing? even those running on port 80? /didnt RTFA....
I need one core for everyday stuff, and the other to determine who deserves a UFIA for the annoyance involved in doing everyday stuff.
I clean this crap up every damn day and I have a plan.
First it requires the gathering of where to serve the papers, i.e. where are all these bastards hiding that make this stuff.
Secondly every bill I give someone for this junk will have attached the necessary forms to file a small-claims suit to recoup some of what they've paid to have their machine cleaned, along with an index of who's spyware was removed.
Let them all try to fight THOUSANDS of small claims filings in every district in the country. It should bury them.
Would any law types out there like to weigh in on the various flaws to my scheme as IANAL and I'm certain there is some problem with this I don't see.
"With the 'newer hardware, software' bit, you're straying somewhat from the original "Windows is so crap it's more cost effective to buy a new PC" hyperbole, imho."
Two words, Windows Millenium.
Trust me, I deal with this on a daily basis, once you factor in the OS, patches, updates etc, and then the installed application software, its cheaper for someone to buy anew pc and hire me.us to transfer their data.
It'll be fine, as long as they have a house of pain...
This from the people who make you dependant on IE for antivirus updates. Absolutely unbelievable.
Once you factor in all the app reinstall time and applying updates/patches etc to something 2 years or more older, the cost of a new pc is not much more, and the benefits of newer hardware, software and things like warrantees make it more than worthwhile.
Lots more expensive around here, in the neighborhood of $120-$180 per hour depending, one heavy infection on a 2-3 year old machine could easily approach the cost of a POS Dell.
I've started recommending Mac's for people's internet needs.
"Always prevent the software from running *before* removing the files. Otherwise you are asking for problems."
Total agreement there, I generally will not start a cleanup without first purging all that stuff by putting the drive in a cage and accessing it from a laptop, after that you can proceed in relative safety.
I wonder when it becomes legal to curb-stomp the people who write these blasted things?
"Sometimes the best solution is to do a clean install and set up a proper backup and recovery protocol - but yes, doing so ultimately makes the services you provide obsolete (or very nearly so)"
Often that is the best solution, but also often more than the cost of a new pc, once you factor in all the application installs, updates, patches, etc etc etc.
I don't know about the parent but I be glad to make myself obsolete to most of the people I have to deal with.
Most Windows users seem to operate their machines with a level of common sense that would make handing out crack and handguns to middle-schoolers seem like a good idea.
"I've never really seen any of the removal tools that were 100% effective"
Fdisk.
Well first off, before anything else, I'd wipe out all the temp files, all of them, everywhere, all profiles. I'd also clear out the prefetch folder and anything that looks like a dump for non-necessary code.
Be real careful to check running services.
System Restore, I have concluded, is the devil and should not be trusted, it brings back evil as well as good. Best to turn it off until the machine is cleaned.
Make certain the recycler is emptied.
Check the add/remove programs, some of these nasties actually include easy uninstallers to be viewed as legitamate.
All else fails, get a young priest and an old priest.
"But for John Avg. Doe, what you just described is both a major pain in the ass as well as way over his head."
But lets say for sake of argument that the process mentioned is correct and reasonable complete, how is MS's app going to help a person needing a pro tech to fix his/her machine if the app doesn't get the same results as athe cleanup process? Not to mention that a machine already messed up is likely to but uncleanable without professional help. Why doesn't MS just fix its bloody vulnerabilities?
This app doesn't do Joe Avg. any good at all since it doesn't solve the bloody problem, it's just another band-aid, just a way for MS to dodge a lawsuit by saying "hey, we gave people a repair tool!"
"It COMPLIMENTS your set of tools...not replaces them."
Which is why it isn't really useful. I have several tools that compliment one another, but all that adds up to is needing to have 4 or 5 different apps scan 150000+ files (on average) one after the other to effectively clean a machine, rather than one app that gets 98% or more nasties in one sweep. This is the difference between 20-30 minutes and 2-3 hours, and often the difference between the customer fixing or replacing their 2 year old pc due to labor costs.
If thats the extent of your process, you aren't anywhere near completing the cleanup.
"We need to run at least 3 antispyware programs at work, and at least 2 antivirus programs before we feel confident that a computer is clean enough to return to the customer."
And that my friend is the reason that I've begun to recommend Mac's even tho I work for an MS partner. It has now become more cost effective to replace the machine than clean/repair it if it's a Windows box. Sad but true.
"EGM: Now imagine you've reached the 10th stage, and you're on your last life. Once you die and you put another quarter in, you don't just continue from there--you start all over.
Parker: Are you serious?
EGM: Yep. When you lose all your lives, you have to start over. You don't keep going.
Parker: And you guys back then were OK with this?"
Hehe, suck it punk, you with your continues and save points!
I remember slugging my way thru those classics like Defender and Galaga.
Imagine playing any new console game with nowhere to start but the beginning. Then we'd really see who had the skillz.
Hehe.
How long before someone cuts down the handlebars and mounts something like a surfboard or oversized skateboard deck to it?
Now that might actually be interesting.
Polo, feh.
Strangely, the only thing I thought when reading this was "how long before there is a tag in the HTLM spec?"
Well, that and the fact that they were Gateways to begin with. Fairly flakey machines in my experience.
I admit to not reading the atricle, cus well frankly I know all the history.
But do you know WHY Dave Arneson was no longer involved, its quite a silly tale.
Worse yet,no one ever seems to remember that Gygax didn't do it alone. Somewhere David Andersson (sp?) is stabbing himself in the eye again.
What I wouldn't give for a time-machine, a pizza, and a six-pack to out-bid Gygax.
A cookie for anyone who can explain that.