I didn't mean to fan the fire of the debate either, but it's inevitable when you mention two similar, competing projects and seem to side with one. KDE works for me, so I use it most of the time. Gnome has always had big problems for me in the past (with lots of crashing), and even with configuration. To me, Gnome just doesn't make sense, it's not coherent. I agree with your point about needing a balance between configurability and simplicity for newbies, though.
I'd bet money that East Coast people can probably talk faster than typing. The main thing this requires is a huge paradigm shift. I think if you could just talk to your computer and have it send voice or video email (and the technology was actually in place to make it as easy as text email), it'd probably get popular. In the past, attempts were made to popularize it but dialup will NEVER cut the mustard for stuff like this.
Alot of visionaries in the past have included the concept of two-way video communications over a variety of devices, and these ideas have become commonplace in lots of media (movies, tv shows, etc.). It's just a natural extension of technology that hasn't happened yet. Videophones are getting popular in parts of the world that have broadband phones (read: not the US), and computers will follow as bandwidth allows.
You can't seriously believe that 20 years from now you'll still be reading email from friends and relatives, can you? For some forms of media like newspapers and magazines, the printed format is fine. Video is the killer app of the future.
It's a good idea for you to tell people to forget KDE for the moment, as it's a much more cohesive and centralized desktop manager than Gnome ever will be. The gnome control center is a mess (especially in the latest Redhat) and it takes an act of God to find what you need. KDE's control panel, by comparison, is logical and well laid out. Sure, it could use tweaks, but from a functionality standpoint, it makes sense. Making sense is good for users.
"But the basic email metaphor probably won't change."
I beg to differ. As the world's economy recovers, we'll see more broadband connectivity emerge. With more broadband comes more killer apps to make use of that broadband, and I think voice email will become commonplace. Why type it up and hit send when you can speak into a mic and hit send? Editing? Well, yeah..but still, as ubiquitous as cellphones and voicemail are these days, I think email will go that same route eventually.
"No need to get sarky." I'm guessing this means sarcastic, and there's no arrogance involved. When people like yourself offer discouraging words about a distro, out of ignorance, you scare others away from trying it. There are a wealth of resources for newbies, particularly for Mandrake users. It's not a nightmare getting help at all as long as you avoid dalnet on irc.
Complaining that you'd spend many hours doesn't absolve you from doing it. If you want it trimmed down, do it. Every package describes what it does in the Mandrake installer, you just click it when you're selecting/deselecting it and you'll get a nice description. Now that you're armed with 20/20 hindsight, perhaps you can offer clues to others that may try it in the future.
I agree with your last statement though. Choice can be a double-edged sword.
"Call me stupid, but the ide of having tens of identical apps installed doesn't appeal to me"
Ok, stupid, here's my response.
Mandrake has a mystical, well-hidden feature during the installer called 'expert mode'. With this unbelievable mechanism, you, yes you, can CHOOSE what packages get installed and what packages are OMITTED. Wait. It's not hidden. It's the 3rd thing it prompts you for.
Don't blame a distro's bloat or duplication of apps on the distro, blame it on yourself. Even gentoo would be bloated if you did emerge mozilla ; emerge galeon ; emerge phoenix ; emerge netscape ; emerge 10 more browsers. Clicking on the default everything like so many windows installs has taught you isn't the answer. Linux has 'choice'.
The relative speed of the pope transforming into a serial killer is a bad benchmark. At his current age and drooly-ness, I think it'd take him at LEAST 5 years. By then he'd be dead.
Actually, an investor was bringing in 4 million, and has postponed it until early next year. This latest drive is to keep the creditors off their backs until the cash shows up.
Opera is definitely wonderful for my brother. He has 2 way satellite internet (yeah yeah I know, shudder) and was always complaining about the load time of the pages. When you have a 1000ms ping it becomes an issue. What did I suggest he do?
Install Opera.
He loves it. It caches the hell out of every site he hits, so everything is pretty much instant if he backs up a page or visits a page that hasn't changed. I think Opera fits the niche perfectly here. There's nothing more annoying than IE or whatever trying to reload a page you JUST visited a second ago. Don't give me any BS about 'well my site uses bla bla server side crap'. 9 times out of 10 the only thing that really changes on a dynamic page is a stupid ad banner.
German cars are usually referred to as 'well engineered', 'typical teutonic quality' or 'good value for the money'. I rarely see them mentioned as stylish.
Now Bugatti, Aston Martin, Lamborghini and Ferrari..those cars have style. When someone truly loves the way a car can look rather than loving the internals that make it go, you end up with a stylish vehicle. Quality may suffer but it still looks sexy as hell.
female geeks on the net like to advertise that they want attention
I don't know about the geek women where you live, but in Texas, they just want a ham sandwich and some cheesy poofs. The geek ladies here are fat, lazy, and homely. I can't speak for all of them but for the dozen or so I've met (except one really hot tattooed chick that ownz at Quake3), it's no wonder they'd rather date online.
In cyberspace, no one can hear your potential mate scream.
You're definitely a newbie. Check your Networking>WWW menu. That's where your browsers get hidden..in plain sight.
I hate to disappoint you but Mandrake and Redhat don't add more clutter to your desktop every time you install an app. All that stuff goes neatly into the menu (on Mandrake it goes in if you install from a mandrake RPM).
"something more than just the CD should be offered..."
I totally agree. I've been telling Mandrake for years we need some freakin' bumper stickers.
Re:If this is good news...
on
Mandrake News
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· Score: 3, Insightful
I guess you missed the last 6 or 7 articles posted here about Mandrake. They ARE making money now, but are still in the red.Over a year ago their CEO and upper management started steering the company into a collision course with the ground. They lost alot of money at that time. They've since been steadily restructuring while cranking out a quality distro at the same time.
The only reason this is news at all is because Mandrake expected to be 'profitable', i.e. higher income than debt, by this time of this year. However, they're still making a comeback.
Might want to do some searching here for Mandrake articles..there's a detailed history behind all this stuff.
Re:Nothing like Enron
on
Mandrake News
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Yeah Enron was the first company killed by management that sprung to mind, and I admit it was a terrible example.
IIRC, the Mandrake users weren't the ones complaining loudly to the new management at the helm there, it was the developers and founders that were pretty concerned about their eroding bottom line. Remember, every CEO has a board that has the right to hire and fire him based on performance or something as petty as his choice of ties.
At any rate, when a company (the workers plus the investors, remember when they went public) isn't doing well, the shareholders and the board get nervous. The board usually tries to fix problems from the top down and make the shareholders a little happier.
I'm still confused as to why they just got a new CEO. Maybe he brings some kind of financial wizardry or business ties to the table..because I read an article today saying how he's 'enjoying learning about Open Source software'. Like he's never heard of it before.
Oh well..at any rate, I'm glad Mandrake is getting healthier. It always has been my favorite distro over the last 3 or 4 years, and it seems to be growing with me.
Their previous CEO and his cronies wanted to take Mandrake in a radically different direction. They tried making inroads into educational software and POP software, kiosk stuff, etc. Just some really creative but ultimately terrible decisions.
Ask Enron or anyone else victimized by retarded management how hard it is to make a comeback. Without it's userbase standing by, I'm sure Mandrake would've gone tits up this summer.
Re:Good For Them
on
Mandrake News
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
You should donate to them because all the code they generate is open source. Actually there isn't one piece of software in their Download Edition of 9.0 that isn't opensource and free. They're strong believers where other distros are tending to hide their contributions.
Also, they let you leech all their ISO's free of charge. Try doing that with Xandros, Lindows, or any of the other 'new and improved desktop distros'. All they ask is that you have a heart and give them a few bucks so their developers can eat and they can pay for their bandwidth.
Huh, that's unusual. You must have Mandrake 8.x which came with the 'it's just fine' gcc 2.96. The Mplayer guys were talking smack about it because Redhat bundled a version with 7.x that caused alot of errors when certain things were compiled. I documented how to compile Mplayer a long time ago on Mandrakeuser.org. The trick is to use --disable-gcc-checking as a commandline switch. It's hardly a secret since the readme file AND the commandline will tell you this when you try to build it. I think there's one other switch it needs but I've since forgotten.
BTW don't waste your time unless you really feel like building it. Penguin Liberation Front (plf.zarb.org) has all the mplayer stuff you need including the codecs in rpm form. Add it as an urpmi source and urpmi mplayer, it'll download and install everything.
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I didn't mean to fan the fire of the debate either, but it's inevitable when you mention two similar, competing projects and seem to side with one. KDE works for me, so I use it most of the time. Gnome has always had big problems for me in the past (with lots of crashing), and even with configuration. To me, Gnome just doesn't make sense, it's not coherent. I agree with your point about needing a balance between configurability and simplicity for newbies, though.
I'd bet money that East Coast people can probably talk faster than typing. The main thing this requires is a huge paradigm shift. I think if you could just talk to your computer and have it send voice or video email (and the technology was actually in place to make it as easy as text email), it'd probably get popular. In the past, attempts were made to popularize it but dialup will NEVER cut the mustard for stuff like this.
Alot of visionaries in the past have included the concept of two-way video communications over a variety of devices, and these ideas have become commonplace in lots of media (movies, tv shows, etc.). It's just a natural extension of technology that hasn't happened yet. Videophones are getting popular in parts of the world that have broadband phones (read: not the US), and computers will follow as bandwidth allows.
You can't seriously believe that 20 years from now you'll still be reading email from friends and relatives, can you? For some forms of media like newspapers and magazines, the printed format is fine. Video is the killer app of the future.
It's a good idea for you to tell people to forget KDE for the moment, as it's a much more cohesive and centralized desktop manager than Gnome ever will be. The gnome control center is a mess (especially in the latest Redhat) and it takes an act of God to find what you need. KDE's control panel, by comparison, is logical and well laid out. Sure, it could use tweaks, but from a functionality standpoint, it makes sense. Making sense is good for users.
"But the basic email metaphor probably won't change."
I beg to differ. As the world's economy recovers, we'll see more broadband connectivity emerge. With more broadband comes more killer apps to make use of that broadband, and I think voice email will become commonplace. Why type it up and hit send when you can speak into a mic and hit send? Editing? Well, yeah..but still, as ubiquitous as cellphones and voicemail are these days, I think email will go that same route eventually.
"No need to get sarky." I'm guessing this means sarcastic, and there's no arrogance involved. When people like yourself offer discouraging words about a distro, out of ignorance, you scare others away from trying it. There are a wealth of resources for newbies, particularly for Mandrake users. It's not a nightmare getting help at all as long as you avoid dalnet on irc.
Complaining that you'd spend many hours doesn't absolve you from doing it. If you want it trimmed down, do it. Every package describes what it does in the Mandrake installer, you just click it when you're selecting/deselecting it and you'll get a nice description. Now that you're armed with 20/20 hindsight, perhaps you can offer clues to others that may try it in the future.
I agree with your last statement though. Choice can be a double-edged sword.
"Call me stupid, but the ide of having tens of identical apps installed doesn't appeal to me"
Ok, stupid, here's my response.
Mandrake has a mystical, well-hidden feature during the installer called 'expert mode'. With this unbelievable mechanism, you, yes you, can CHOOSE what packages get installed and what packages are OMITTED. Wait. It's not hidden. It's the 3rd thing it prompts you for.
Don't blame a distro's bloat or duplication of apps on the distro, blame it on yourself. Even gentoo would be bloated if you did emerge mozilla ; emerge galeon ; emerge phoenix ; emerge netscape ; emerge 10 more browsers. Clicking on the default everything like so many windows installs has taught you isn't the answer. Linux has 'choice'.
The relative speed of the pope transforming into a serial killer is a bad benchmark. At his current age and drooly-ness, I think it'd take him at LEAST 5 years. By then he'd be dead.
Nice troll, but in your ignorance, you're overlooking the good Mandrake has done for the Open Source community at large. To date, they have:
1. Donated heaps of cash to KDE developers to encourage development and keep people fed.
2. Open sourced all their software they've created in-house in order to benefit the community.
3. Provided free downloads of their distro from day one.
I'm sure there are dozens more, but first and foremost, they work for the community.
Actually, an investor was bringing in 4 million, and has postponed it until early next year. This latest drive is to keep the creditors off their backs until the cash shows up.
Know why they call him Commander Taco? Because that's all they can afford to pay him...3 plates of tacos daily. Taco Bell tacos, no less.
Man, I had no idea VA's stock was so low. If that was an EKG they be running for the paddles.
Opera is definitely wonderful for my brother. He has 2 way satellite internet (yeah yeah I know, shudder) and was always complaining about the load time of the pages. When you have a 1000ms ping it becomes an issue. What did I suggest he do?
Install Opera.
He loves it. It caches the hell out of every site he hits, so everything is pretty much instant if he backs up a page or visits a page that hasn't changed. I think Opera fits the niche perfectly here. There's nothing more annoying than IE or whatever trying to reload a page you JUST visited a second ago. Don't give me any BS about 'well my site uses bla bla server side crap'. 9 times out of 10 the only thing that really changes on a dynamic page is a stupid ad banner.
German cars are usually referred to as 'well engineered', 'typical teutonic quality' or 'good value for the money'. I rarely see them mentioned as stylish.
Now Bugatti, Aston Martin, Lamborghini and Ferrari..those cars have style. When someone truly loves the way a car can look rather than loving the internals that make it go, you end up with a stylish vehicle. Quality may suffer but it still looks sexy as hell.
female geeks on the net like to advertise that they want attention
I don't know about the geek women where you live, but in Texas, they just want a ham sandwich and some cheesy poofs. The geek ladies here are fat, lazy, and homely. I can't speak for all of them but for the dozen or so I've met (except one really hot tattooed chick that ownz at Quake3), it's no wonder they'd rather date online.
In cyberspace, no one can hear your potential mate scream.
Thanks alot for the link. That site was totally fascinating :)
Just a little note on your troubles.
The Nvidia drivers come with the commercial boxed cd's, the download edition can't pack them for licensing reasons. Dunno about the ATI drivers.
Also there's a new mandrake flash6 rpm out there somewhere, so your pal should have it easy.
You're definitely a newbie. Check your Networking>WWW menu. That's where your browsers get hidden..in plain sight.
I hate to disappoint you but Mandrake and Redhat don't add more clutter to your desktop every time you install an app. All that stuff goes neatly into the menu (on Mandrake it goes in if you install from a mandrake RPM).
"something more than just the CD should be offered..."
I totally agree. I've been telling Mandrake for years we need some freakin' bumper stickers.
I guess you missed the last 6 or 7 articles posted here about Mandrake. They ARE making money now, but are still in the red.Over a year ago their CEO and upper management started steering the company into a collision course with the ground. They lost alot of money at that time. They've since been steadily restructuring while cranking out a quality distro at the same time.
The only reason this is news at all is because Mandrake expected to be 'profitable', i.e. higher income than debt, by this time of this year. However, they're still making a comeback.
Might want to do some searching here for Mandrake articles..there's a detailed history behind all this stuff.
Yeah Enron was the first company killed by management that sprung to mind, and I admit it was a terrible example.
IIRC, the Mandrake users weren't the ones complaining loudly to the new management at the helm there, it was the developers and founders that were pretty concerned about their eroding bottom line. Remember, every CEO has a board that has the right to hire and fire him based on performance or something as petty as his choice of ties.
At any rate, when a company (the workers plus the investors, remember when they went public) isn't doing well, the shareholders and the board get nervous. The board usually tries to fix problems from the top down and make the shareholders a little happier.
I'm still confused as to why they just got a new CEO. Maybe he brings some kind of financial wizardry or business ties to the table..because I read an article today saying how he's 'enjoying learning about Open Source software'. Like he's never heard of it before.
Oh well..at any rate, I'm glad Mandrake is getting healthier. It always has been my favorite distro over the last 3 or 4 years, and it seems to be growing with me.
Did it also get it's ease of installation and configuration from that D distro? LOL
Their previous CEO and his cronies wanted to take Mandrake in a radically different direction. They tried making inroads into educational software and POP software, kiosk stuff, etc. Just some really creative but ultimately terrible decisions.
Ask Enron or anyone else victimized by retarded management how hard it is to make a comeback. Without it's userbase standing by, I'm sure Mandrake would've gone tits up this summer.
You should donate to them because all the code they generate is open source. Actually there isn't one piece of software in their Download Edition of 9.0 that isn't opensource and free. They're strong believers where other distros are tending to hide their contributions.
Also, they let you leech all their ISO's free of charge. Try doing that with Xandros, Lindows, or any of the other 'new and improved desktop distros'. All they ask is that you have a heart and give them a few bucks so their developers can eat and they can pay for their bandwidth.
How about Nvidia takes ATI's stance and writes crap drivers or no drivers at all for other OS's besides Windows? Now THAT would make everyone happy!
Oh, I don't know about the importance of a walk cycle. South Park and Space Ghosts C2C have done just fine without them.
Huh, that's unusual. You must have Mandrake 8.x which came with the 'it's just fine' gcc 2.96. The Mplayer guys were talking smack about it because Redhat bundled a version with 7.x that caused alot of errors when certain things were compiled. I documented how to compile Mplayer a long time ago on Mandrakeuser.org. The trick is to use --disable-gcc-checking as a commandline switch. It's hardly a secret since the readme file AND the commandline will tell you this when you try to build it. I think there's one other switch it needs but I've since forgotten.
BTW don't waste your time unless you really feel like building it. Penguin Liberation Front (plf.zarb.org) has all the mplayer stuff you need including the codecs in rpm form. Add it as an urpmi source and urpmi mplayer, it'll download and install everything.