Re:Linux, BSD, and everything need one thing....
on
Ark Linux
·
· Score: 2
Well, my idea, which I didn't state well enough, was to have binary pre-compiled packages easy enough. I want the gap, I want a end-user linux. But I want them to be able to go to the web site, download eterm, right click, hit install, and run eterm. That act alone would open a new world to the user. And same with gcc. There is no way it should be necessary on a desktop. But it definately should be there to download and install, with the punch of a button. Then users could go from there. (Mind you, the gcc package should be called 'develoeprs' or somethings and come with everything for configure, etc..)
Re:Linux, BSD, and everything need one thing....
on
Ark Linux
·
· Score: 2
I haven't tried it either. I'm glad you see my point though. I think there should be different distros. Some for the more experienced user(Slackware, Debian, Etc) and some for the fresh-from-the-womb (Redhat, Lindows, Mandrake, Ark, Etc..). Choices are a good thing sometimes. Fragmentation is a good thing sometimes. If everyone pooled all their resources imagine how pissed the 'linux-must-stay-pure' people will be when the 'linux-for-the-masses' practically disable getty and remove every terminal(xterm,rxvt,eterm) etc.
Configuration is a big baddie because you only have to do it once. And the more experienced users are ok with a more difficult install.
No screenshots? This story isn't slashdot worthy if there are no screenshots!
Linux, BSD, and everything need one thing....
on
Ark Linux
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Linux, BSD, and everythign else need one thing, just one thing that embedded systems like Zaurus and others do successfully to make it easy for the masses. Remove everything technical. All the drivers should be an LKM, there should be something like a "Control Panel" to choose which ones load on boot-up. Users should be allowed to pick and choose their WM, but it should be easy. Gnome Control Panel did this I think. There should be _no mention_ of the term: 'recompile the kernel'. There should be binary packages available so people can download, right click, and select "Install..." to install a program. It should boot-up graphically into X-Windows and should only have one xterm-like replacement(or even xterm itself) hidden, deep in the menus.
Does this take out everything we love? Yes. I'll gladly stick to FreeBSD with my rxvt's and my gettys, my kernel compilation and my make worlds, thank you very much. The beauty of Windows is that it takes all of the fun out. But what we consider fun others consider a PITA.
If a distribution did this, took everything out, made it all LKM's, and took all the technicalities out, then we would have a system for everyday users. They don't want the command line. Come on, some of these people can only do 5 wpm! When starting up your web browser because you don't know about tab-completion and you can't type takes 15 seconds before the program is even executed, you have a major problem there. It should be click(or, optionally, click-click) and it should run.
This needs a team of dedicated people to run a free system like this, but more likely, a team of employees from a company will do this(and many are trying to) and to maintain binary packages, an easy system to install/update/delete packages. That's what we need.
What is wrong with Red Hat and Mandrake and the others? Simple. Whenever they do something to make everything more simplistic, the community(read: many of us slashdotters) makes a backlash saying the system lacks this or that functionality because they did this or that. I say let them. We always have Debian, Slackware, and other distributions. Let a few of these become end-user-never-going-to-type-in-a-command-in-their -lifetime-bought-the-damn-thing-at-wal-mart-for-ch rist-sakes distributions and leave it at that. Applaud them for taking out even the ability to re-compile the kernel. Applaud them for it.
Yes, many of these companies are doing idiotic things, but we're part of the community and they look to us for guidance. Let's tell them, not yell at them, to take apache out of the main distribution and for god sakes disable it for regular desktop users.
Desktops should be so easy an 8 year old should be able to set up. Servers should be difficult to set up.
Sorry, I had to rant. and yes, I know it's the same rant everyone else on slashdot says, but this time I get to say it.
I agree with what you say. But if you give it a few minutes, and let the link show up, you'll see it's a business and they're trying to make a profit. Free advertising like Slashdot, even when the site goes down many people come back to it, must be almost priceless. I hope they have enough stocked up.
I'm still waiting for the guys that invented Python to finally say it was really meant as a joke.
I'm kiddind, I've used Python, it works well.
As for PHP programmers, of which I mostly do, it's a lot of people coming from the "I learned the tag so now I am a professional web designer" side of it, whereas I came from the C to Perl to PHP side (and actively use all 3). In that way I can imagine complex applications where-as many others are barely learning what an object is. Asking for help is a pain in the ass. At least the programmers of PHP are good, now with built in RTFM support. =)
"It doesn't come with a VM, a religion, or an overriding philosophy."
Not a religion? Neither was C. Neither was Java. Neither was C++. Neither was vi. Neither was Emacs. I think we all know where this is going and that that statement should be considered pure FUD. And a new language covered in FUD is not a good thing, even if it look like a good thing(tm).
'that "every TiVo Series2 DVR contains a unique public/private key pair,"'
I love it! When the *AA sues you for distributing copyrighted content, you can claim it's just a PBS program or a video you made. If they crack it, you can have the case thrown out(IANAL) and sue them for violating the DMCA.
This doesn't answer your question, but I think it is interesting, and of course you would have to find the people:
Companies who developed products using the GPL'ed version, if found out, would be _forced_ to release their product under GPL or admit to copyright theft, and possibly both could be the death of the company.
There's a blurb about it at the bottom of this Wired Article.
One quote "Microsoft also is re-evaluating the ubiquitous name's use on other software." adds another dimension to this than just taking it off of the Windows 2003 Server.
I want is a little Cappuccino PC with WiFi(54MBps, please), a TV-OUT(RCA preferably) and something to hook it up to my speakers(Again, RCA preferably). Oh, and NFS support. Then I want to use a pre-programmed (or program one myself) interface, hook it up to the X10 remote(the silver bullet I think they call it, one of their nice ones, err, their only nice one), and be done with it.
That way, I can watch MPEGs, AVI, and whatever else Mplayer supports. I can listen to my MP3's, My OGG's, and whatever else. I can get on my computer and add favorite streams to the box. That way I can listen to Absolute Pitch downstairs, every Sunday. That way I can listen to other streams. I need Real Audio on it so I can listen to NPR every now and then. Hell, set up Hourly News as a favorite button or something. That'd be nice.
Alot of people are saying that this just isn't possible. Some don't like cable and others say you have to get voice with DSL.
The article, however, was a kind of "What may happen in the future/What is happening now" not a "This is what is happening here and now and here's what we can do."
VoIP is a very real possibility, just not yet. In the future, we will be able to get DSL sans Voice. You have to look at this from the 'as the world turns' way instead of the 'status quo' way. If broadband was inexpensive(they way it is moving to, believe it or not!) and you can go to Wal Mart, buy a "VoIP/WiFi Starter Box" which gives you a wireless hub and a WiFi phone with a charging station, I believe VoIP would become much more popular than regular telephone.
If you think that the phone companies keeping an incompatability between VoIP and 'land lines'(VoIP disguised as regular phones) then you're wrong. Many people will switch to both. I don't believe that E-Mail will replace the phone (although it would be nice =). Instant Messaging is used as much or sometimes more than the telephone, so it is a real competitor, same with e-mail vs. IM. I do not believe that Instant Messaging will replace E-Mail, nor Telephone. Nor do I believe that MSN Messenger or Yahoo! Pager will replace AIM. Those are easy choices to make whereas Telephone is not.
Internet Service is poised to move to be the 'hard choice' because you can always unplug the VoIP or turn off AIM. I think the traditional phone services will be replaced by online directories for looking up people, calculating their current IP(back-end stuff, end-users won't see this), and show whether they are at home or not.
I think it's great that he's chosen to go with KHTML instead of Gecko? (For reference, I use Moz, installing Phoenix right now, and I use WindowMaker, not KDE). If they went with Gecko, it would go against everything the Mozilla Project stands for.
Mozilla is created as an alternative. It was not created to be the ONLY alternative. And assuming the world domination thing happens, IE dies off, we would have the same thing, but called Mozilla and hidden behind different 'skins' (front-end like Phoenix, Galeon, Chimera, Etc). I think those projects are great, but choice is what the entire Free Software movement is about.
I choose to run WindowMaker. I choose to use FreeBSD. I can choose to release my projects as either GPL or BSD, or even LGPL, or any of the other licenses. I choose to use an x86 based platform.
Why not let Apple choose KHTML? If we wake up one day and find that only Gecko is out there, IE died and Konqueror is "that other browser" (Like Opera and Mozilla are considered today, in the mainstream, although both are gaining considerable acceptance), where would we have gotten? Except for the fact it's open source, it'll be no different than IE.
I'm sure the Junk DNA in the human genome, if they have anything to do with the Secret Message of Pi, or the Intelligence In Pi, then I'm sure it's written in the English Alphabet because that's what our Alien(Raelian?) ancestors wrote in. Haven't you seen Star Wars or Futurama?
Not too much in FreeBSD running the same tests. (Yes, I have nothing better to do today, thank you). (Results white-space edited)
Under/usr/src/sys/ $ egrep -ir "( fuck)|( shit)" * alpha/tc/esp.c: * Things are seriously fucked up.
dev/sym/sym_hipd.c: * brain-deaded stuff that makes shit.
i386/i386/math_emu.h: * structure to 12 bytes which breaks things in math_emulate.c. Shit. I
Doing it outside the/usr/src/sys/ tree has many more results, but alot of them come out of the fortune files. No funny stories I could find, but I'm sure someone else can. =)
What I meant to say was that I think this is a good thing and that we should trust our corporations. There is no one controlling everything behind our backs, we are a capitalist society where one can rise to the top. I for one will trust the corporations with my soul.
None of this really matters, it's just to reduce paperwork. Think about it, 5 companies, working together, or one big company? One big company = less paperwork. Now that the Microsoft Project(tm) has shown that the people really don't mind full blown monopolies as long as they keep us under control, it's not a problem and now they want to do it. Everyone knows all the major companies are owned and run by the Illumana%!@#$ NO CARRIER
Our game was looking pretty crappy a few years back. They had just released a new version of the Diku engine. Well, needless to say, we were pretty screwed. It tooks up two months to convert all those damn files to the new format. Not to mention the graphics! They were black and white single color text. Luckily one of our guys new how to take advantage of the new ANSI colorFX chip in the Diku engine. Everything was upgraded, but truth be told we weren't using the PKill2D features nor the DirectCast features. But we were using the latest and greatest Diku dFORCE text-rendering library. Along with the best DRUID compiler.
(Yeah, I know, I've done better, but hey, I gave it a shot.)
Slashdot Mirror
Well, my idea, which I didn't state well enough, was to have binary pre-compiled packages easy enough. I want the gap, I want a end-user linux. But I want them to be able to go to the web site, download eterm, right click, hit install, and run eterm. That act alone would open a new world to the user. And same with gcc. There is no way it should be necessary on a desktop. But it definately should be there to download and install, with the punch of a button. Then users could go from there. (Mind you, the gcc package should be called 'develoeprs' or somethings and come with everything for configure, etc..)
I haven't tried it either. I'm glad you see my point though. I think there should be different distros. Some for the more experienced user(Slackware, Debian, Etc) and some for the fresh-from-the-womb (Redhat, Lindows, Mandrake, Ark, Etc..). Choices are a good thing sometimes. Fragmentation is a good thing sometimes. If everyone pooled all their resources imagine how pissed the 'linux-must-stay-pure' people will be when the 'linux-for-the-masses' practically disable getty and remove every terminal(xterm,rxvt,eterm) etc.
Configuration is a big baddie because you only have to do it once. And the more experienced users are ok with a more difficult install.
No screenshots? This story isn't slashdot worthy if there are no screenshots!
Linux, BSD, and everythign else need one thing, just one thing that embedded systems like Zaurus and others do successfully to make it easy for the masses. Remove everything technical. All the drivers should be an LKM, there should be something like a "Control Panel" to choose which ones load on boot-up. Users should be allowed to pick and choose their WM, but it should be easy. Gnome Control Panel did this I think. There should be _no mention_ of the term: 'recompile the kernel'. There should be binary packages available so people can download, right click, and select "Install..." to install a program. It should boot-up graphically into X-Windows and should only have one xterm-like replacement(or even xterm itself) hidden, deep in the menus.
r -lifetime-bought-the-damn-thing-at-wal-mart-for-ch rist-sakes
Does this take out everything we love? Yes. I'll gladly stick to FreeBSD with my rxvt's and my gettys, my kernel compilation and my make worlds, thank you very much. The beauty of Windows is that it takes all of the fun out. But what we consider fun others consider a PITA.
If a distribution did this, took everything out, made it all LKM's, and took all the technicalities out, then we would have a system for everyday users. They don't want the command line. Come on, some of these people can only do 5 wpm! When starting up your web browser because you don't know about tab-completion and you can't type takes 15 seconds before the program is even executed, you have a major problem there. It should be click(or, optionally, click-click) and it should run.
This needs a team of dedicated people to run a free system like this, but more likely, a team of employees from a company will do this(and many are trying to) and to maintain binary packages, an easy system to install/update/delete packages. That's what we need.
What is wrong with Red Hat and Mandrake and the others? Simple. Whenever they do something to make everything more simplistic, the community(read: many of us slashdotters) makes a backlash saying the system lacks this or that functionality because they did this or that. I say let them. We always have Debian, Slackware, and other distributions. Let a few of these become end-user-never-going-to-type-in-a-command-in-thei
distributions and leave it at that. Applaud them for taking out even the ability to re-compile the kernel. Applaud them for it.
Yes, many of these companies are doing idiotic things, but we're part of the community and they look to us for guidance. Let's tell them, not yell at them, to take apache out of the main distribution and for god sakes disable it for regular desktop users.
Desktops should be so easy an 8 year old should be able to set up. Servers should be difficult to set up.
Sorry, I had to rant. and yes, I know it's the same rant everyone else on slashdot says, but this time I get to say it.
Add a nice fog effect though. That'd be nice. =) Although, much harder to read the keyboard.
I agree with what you say. But if you give it a few minutes, and let the link show up, you'll see it's a business and they're trying to make a profit. Free advertising like Slashdot, even when the site goes down many people come back to it, must be almost priceless. I hope they have enough stocked up.
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Praise the Obj-C!
*Sigh*
C vs. C++ vs. D vs. Perl vs. Python
I'm still waiting for the guys that invented Python to finally say it was really meant as a joke.
I'm kiddind, I've used Python, it works well.
As for PHP programmers, of which I mostly do, it's a lot of people coming from the "I learned the tag so now I am a professional web designer" side of it, whereas I came from the C to Perl to PHP side (and actively use all 3). In that way I can imagine complex applications where-as many others are barely learning what an object is. Asking for help is a pain in the ass. At least the programmers of PHP are good, now with built in RTFM support. =)
So Emacs is kind of like the second coming of Jesus? =)
"It doesn't come with a VM, a religion, or an overriding philosophy."
Not a religion? Neither was C. Neither was Java. Neither was C++. Neither was vi. Neither was Emacs. I think we all know where this is going and that that statement should be considered pure FUD. And a new language covered in FUD is not a good thing, even if it look like a good thing(tm).
'that "every TiVo Series2 DVR contains a unique public/private key pair,"'
I love it! When the *AA sues you for distributing copyrighted content, you can claim it's just a PBS program or a video you made. If they crack it, you can have the case thrown out(IANAL) and sue them for violating the DMCA.
and then the Government would know the chemical make-up of our blood at all times!
"Is this what ./'ers need during those long coding sessions."
Is that anything like the much needed Sex Patch?
Uh, erm, not that I need it. =)
This doesn't answer your question, but I think it is interesting, and of course you would have to find the people:
Companies who developed products using the GPL'ed version, if found out, would be _forced_ to release their product under GPL or admit to copyright theft, and possibly both could be the death of the company.
There's a blurb about it at the bottom of this Wired Article.
One quote "Microsoft also is re-evaluating the ubiquitous name's use on other software." adds another dimension to this than just taking it off of the Windows 2003 Server.
I want is a little Cappuccino PC with WiFi(54MBps, please), a TV-OUT(RCA preferably) and something to hook it up to my speakers(Again, RCA preferably). Oh, and NFS support. Then I want to use a pre-programmed (or program one myself) interface, hook it up to the X10 remote(the silver bullet I think they call it, one of their nice ones, err, their only nice one), and be done with it.
That way, I can watch MPEGs, AVI, and whatever else Mplayer supports. I can listen to my MP3's, My OGG's, and whatever else. I can get on my computer and add favorite streams to the box. That way I can listen to Absolute Pitch downstairs, every Sunday. That way I can listen to other streams. I need Real Audio on it so I can listen to NPR every now and then. Hell, set up Hourly News as a favorite button or something. That'd be nice.
That's all I really want for Christmas.
I'm sure I'll have inaccuracies in this also.
Alot of people are saying that this just isn't possible. Some don't like cable and others say you have to get voice with DSL.
The article, however, was a kind of "What may happen in the future/What is happening now" not a "This is what is happening here and now and here's what we can do."
VoIP is a very real possibility, just not yet. In the future, we will be able to get DSL sans Voice. You have to look at this from the 'as the world turns' way instead of the 'status quo' way. If broadband was inexpensive(they way it is moving to, believe it or not!) and you can go to Wal Mart, buy a "VoIP/WiFi Starter Box" which gives you a wireless hub and a WiFi phone with a charging station, I believe VoIP would become much more popular than regular telephone.
If you think that the phone companies keeping an incompatability between VoIP and 'land lines'(VoIP disguised as regular phones) then you're wrong. Many people will switch to both. I don't believe that E-Mail will replace the phone (although it would be nice =). Instant Messaging is used as much or sometimes more than the telephone, so it is a real competitor, same with e-mail vs. IM. I do not believe that Instant Messaging will replace E-Mail, nor Telephone. Nor do I believe that MSN Messenger or Yahoo! Pager will replace AIM. Those are easy choices to make whereas Telephone is not.
Internet Service is poised to move to be the 'hard choice' because you can always unplug the VoIP or turn off AIM. I think the traditional phone services will be replaced by online directories for looking up people, calculating their current IP(back-end stuff, end-users won't see this), and show whether they are at home or not.
"You can't go faster than the speed of light."
"Of course not. That's why scientists changed the speed of light in 2208."
I think it's great that he's chosen to go with KHTML instead of Gecko? (For reference, I use Moz, installing Phoenix right now, and I use WindowMaker, not KDE). If they went with Gecko, it would go against everything the Mozilla Project stands for.
Mozilla is created as an alternative. It was not created to be the ONLY alternative. And assuming the world domination thing happens, IE dies off, we would have the same thing, but called Mozilla and hidden behind different 'skins' (front-end like Phoenix, Galeon, Chimera, Etc). I think those projects are great, but choice is what the entire Free Software movement is about.
I choose to run WindowMaker. I choose to use FreeBSD. I can choose to release my projects as either GPL or BSD, or even LGPL, or any of the other licenses. I choose to use an x86 based platform.
Why not let Apple choose KHTML? If we wake up one day and find that only Gecko is out there, IE died and Konqueror is "that other browser" (Like Opera and Mozilla are considered today, in the mainstream, although both are gaining considerable acceptance), where would we have gotten? Except for the fact it's open source, it'll be no different than IE.
Just my 2c.
I'm sure the Junk DNA in the human genome, if they have anything to do with the Secret Message of Pi, or the Intelligence In Pi, then I'm sure it's written in the English Alphabet because that's what our Alien(Raelian?) ancestors wrote in. Haven't you seen Star Wars or Futurama?
Not too much in FreeBSD running the same tests. (Yes, I have nothing better to do today, thank you). (Results white-space edited)
/usr/src/sys/
/usr/src/sys/ tree has many more results, but alot of them come out of the fortune files. No funny stories I could find, but I'm sure someone else can. =)
Under
$ egrep -ir "( fuck)|( shit)" *
alpha/tc/esp.c: * Things are seriously fucked up.
dev/sym/sym_hipd.c: * brain-deaded stuff that makes shit.
i386/i386/math_emu.h: * structure to 12 bytes which breaks things in math_emulate.c. Shit. I
Doing it outside the
What I meant to say was that I think this is a good thing and that we should trust our corporations. There is no one controlling everything behind our backs, we are a capitalist society where one can rise to the top. I for one will trust the corporations with my soul.
None of this really matters, it's just to reduce paperwork. Think about it, 5 companies, working together, or one big company? One big company = less paperwork. Now that the Microsoft Project(tm) has shown that the people really don't mind full blown monopolies as long as they keep us under control, it's not a problem and now they want to do it. Everyone knows all the major companies are owned and run by the Illumana%!@#$ NO CARRIER
Our game was looking pretty crappy a few years back. They had just released a new version of the Diku engine. Well, needless to say, we were pretty screwed. It tooks up two months to convert all those damn files to the new format. Not to mention the graphics! They were black and white single color text. Luckily one of our guys new how to take advantage of the new ANSI colorFX chip in the Diku engine. Everything was upgraded, but truth be told we weren't using the PKill2D features nor the DirectCast features. But we were using the latest and greatest Diku dFORCE text-rendering library. Along with the best DRUID compiler.
(Yeah, I know, I've done better, but hey, I gave it a shot.)
Well, it's not, but you know...
Mozilla now comes with it's own Spam Filter starting with 1.3Alpha. Anyone know how well it works? I haven't had a chance to try it.
Think this is off topic? Read the last line of the slashdot story and click the link, where you can take a "Free 30-Day Trial!!"
=)