Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Drops .NET Name For Next Windows Server
metamatic writes "C|net is reporting that Microsoft is dropping the name "Windows .NET Server" and going back to "Windows Server 200x" (where x is currently expected to be 3). Other products with .NET in the name are also being evaluated for renaming. Analysts are being quoted as saying that slapping .NET on so many Microsoft products has confused people as to what .NET actually means. Or could it be that customers know what it means, but nobody wants to buy it?"
Obiwan Kenobi points out a similar article at ENT News
They are changing the name because people are getting confused about what .NET really is. It was a bad idea for Microsoft to try to add ".NET" to every single product they sell.
Do they call you the Customizer?
A net, by defition, is full of holes...
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
It's a trap!
slapping .NET on so many Microsoft products has confused people as to what .NET actually means
Crap?
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Is it time to start callng it Microsoft bob.NET?
Hammer of Truth
.NET is great, too bad no one likes Palladium
and dotNet the Linux while you are at it.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
I agree with the bit about confusion....
.NET is - and palladium for that matter. I asked here on slashdot what they were and the major differnces between the two.
.NET is and maybe palladium for that matter who would care to expound on the merits of this wonderful technology?
I was very confused (and still am) to exactly what
Someone posted a link to an MS page that supposedly explained what they were - but it still was very vague and didnt help much.
So - anyone out there clear on what
Now Slashdot will have to change all those MS .Net advertisements they have. :(
Hypocrisy at its greatest.
Bill: Nobody wants dotnet!
MS Marketing : Let's rename it and fool the bastards
Ballmer: * grin *
Just call it Windows NT Server 5.1.2600 like it probably is internally referred to by.
Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it
With so much $ in the bank, they will let go of their failures quickly. Even though the tech community still teases them about Bob and crap like that, Microsoft pretend it never happened. Slowly, this will happen with .NET. It was a horrible idea from the start, and has severely backfired. Even though their credibility is ruined, they will move on and bumble around in the dark some more until they catch on to something. In the fable, the boy who cried wolf got three chances. Microsoft seems to get a lot more credit and trust from people than that, so it doesn't really matter that this has flopped on their face. They could have just released an upgrade to VB, but they had to sound like they had a lot more up their sleeves than that. They are casting a NET for a new strategy for the company, and they keep coming back with tin cans.
Although iTools always sounded pretty lame, .Mac as a name never made any sense with the exception of its similarity to the name .Net.
Sound waves should be free!
If only
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's still lightyears beyond the likes of linux and OSX.
A name change may seem a small thing, but not too long ago microsoft were telling all and sundry that .NET would be the future of the computing world.
.NET, after all, if I'm a qualified C++ programmer and I don't really know what it's 'about', how the hell is Joe Public gonna buy into this?
The fact that they change the name to something NOT containing the magic term '.NET' must mean, at the least, that all the expensive PR has failed.
microsoft need to actually demonstrate an actual use for
another classic microsoft "technology brand" that kinda meant a bunch of things:
.. hmm. ..
ActiveX
It's active, and it's X
This is News?
What I really don't understand is what MS hopes to accomplish by tweaking their product names only very slightly. So it use to be Windows 2000 Server and now it's going to be Windows Server 2003... big deal.
.NET was really a bet-the-business proposition, they might as well call the product what it is. Windows Server for .NET Version 1.0. Maybe MS has realized that .NET isn't as much a fundamental paradigm switch as it is a client/server application you run on your computer.
.NET Applications Version 1.0. That might actually help the consumer a little!
If
And for that matter, the workstation version could be Windows Workstation for
Honestly, the users that were suppose to benefit from "consistent" naming conventions (Win 95, Win 98, Win 2000) have been duped with WinME, WinXP and whatever else MS is going to call their next workstation version of NT.
Enough of these naming "conventions" already; call it what it is. IMHO, Apple is doing the most work in this area -- an OS is simply OS # - makes sense to me.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
I'm gonna be rich...
I bet a lot of domain name speculators/squatters are feeling good about their .NET-related purchases now...
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
I'm sure .NET will catch up in a year or two, tops. :-)
It's hardly surprising that they encountered market confusion considering how many people will always associate .net their internet provider's domain name.
.wet initiative introduced at last year's Comdex show (which happened to coincide with a Vegas-area porn industry convention).
An even greater cause for brand confusion is the
Personal Strap-On Aircraft for Auction on eBay
There's a blurb about it at the bottom of this Wired Article.
One quote "Microsoft also is re-evaluating the ubiquitous name's use on other software." adds another dimension to this than just taking it off of the Windows 2003 Server.
It will be called "Microsoft Windows ($current_year + 1)" so that it won't LOOK terribly out of date for the next two years.
Hate me!
check out The Ars article on .NET
points out a similar article at ENT News
Funny how a similar article's being posted to a news site that's an anagram of NET...
Analysts are being quoted as saying that slapping .NET on so many Microsoft products has confused people as to what .NET actually means. Or could it be that customers know what it means, but nobody wants to buy it?"
.NET actually means nor do they want to buy it."
Actually its, "No one knows what
Step 0: Profit! .NET
Step 1: ???
Step 3:
Then we'll finally have enough .dots in the middle of all sentences that nobody knows where anything starts or ends.
Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
My theory is that they couldn't get the .NET features that are supposed to be in the product done in time, so no (or not enough) .NET features no .NET designation.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
is that M$oft knows the value of the public's perception. Other companies have pulled moves similar to this over the years, with far less fanfare (not to mention the griping and moaning). .Net, WinSrv200X...doesn't matter, (assuming as based on the article) since all of the core is remaining the same. .Net was intended for...well, it wasn't intended for the GP now, was it?
It doesn't matter what it's called people, all that matters is what it does.
Mandrake, Suse, Slack...need I say more? Same thing (essentially) different name.
Name change only. As far as no one in the general public 'getting' what
Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
No? Yes? Hopefully?
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
My guess is that the next thing that will nappen is that .NET Passport and .NET Services will get name and positioning changes, leaving .NET to be the one thing that it really was supposed to be in the first place, the common language runtime, framework, and development tools.
I think that the reason why so many things got the .NET moniker was internal politics. For a while the mandate in Redmond was that the entire focus on the company was on internet development. So product managers, in the battle for upper management attention, and funding, decided that they had to somehow show that their product was part of the internet initiative and as part of that they slapped the .NET moniker to everyting.
so effectively it doesn't mean anything. No surprises Microsoft is backing out. THings would have been different if they're called this thingy .DA (YES)
in any case, the semantic shift of the label
My other car is a cons.
Rule #1 when creating technical terms is
.net and immediately checked "visualstudio.net" to find out what the name of the latest version of visual studio was.
"Don't reuse a term that is already in use in a similar domain."
This is pretty much exactly what Microsoft did. Putting a "." before a three letter word has become synonymous with meaning the webpage that displays the product. It is likely that some managers heard of visual studio
Plus, "net" is short for internet. That's nuts. We live in a world where a great many people don't know the difference between a webbrowser and an operating system. There's no way these people would be able to distinguish an internet api called "internet" from the internet.
Its probably because they weren't really getting their corporate message across to consumers. I hear that the new API that they're building into all of their products is to be called "Owns You!"
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
microsoft wasn't name change happy back when they released "Microsoft Bob"
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
Microsoft will overcome this temporary setback because most people like and use their products. They trust their vision for computing, and it looks like there are amazing things coming with Tablet PC, wrist watch computers (like Dick Tracy) and stuff like that. Everyone will want the devices to interoperate with Windows, and this strategy has worked extremely well for them thus far to have the switching costs far outweigh any incremental upgrade costs. They can afford to waste billions more on many failed strategies and not have to worry, since their marketshare isn't dropping at all, and maybe never has.
Ximian has announced that in response they will change the name of the "mono" project to "syphilis"
They should really name the next server line Windows.OS2
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
I think I remember reading an article that .NET was supposed to harken to, mentally, to a domain name extension. Such that .com is the extension for all commerical sites, .org for organization, so .net was going to be the "branded" starting point for all microsoft products. So I think they were trying to put all their products into some sort of directory tree. So .NET would be the root, and all languages would be .net, and the servers would be serverx.net, and products would be office.net, etc, etc. etc. However, where this really failed, for me anyway, is that .net is a misnomer, they should have created a new made-up extension. Secondly, I don't seriously think Microsoft had a good launch of this, they never could contain the marketing very well, you heard bits and pieces from all over the place, and never understood their direction from the top down.
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
The core of .NET is the .NET framework, which is somewhat analogous to the Java Virtual Machine. Both the framework and the .NET Framework SDK are free.
Your missing the whole point guys. They are trying desperately now to keep the name Windows. Why? Because of thier legal wrangling attempts to keep anyone else from using anything close like "Lindows". Not to mention .NET is another common used word that they would then be challenged on... why have two fights...just keep one. If they weren't using Windows anymore.. a judge might ask what the big deal was with someone else using something close. Get it?
That's all I got from the commercial
</sarcasm>
I've said it before, but I'll repeat myself, MS is run by lawyers and marketing people who don't consider any technical aspects of what they're doing. MS messed up bad with the ActiveX craze and maybe this influenced the move away from the .Net name. Very few still understand what .Net actually is, and MS isn't helping. I really wish they could have some of their techs/programmers sit down and write a coherent explanation/introduction, without lawyer/marketing influence. It took me a looong time to get a grip on it, simply because any MS material is so filled with buzzwords and marketing terms.
For those that still don't know what .Net is, it's like an MS version of J2EE, not Java, J2EE. It's a architecture with among other things a large class library and a cross platform runtime that all .Net languages can run under.
Ok, so it's not 100% accurate, but close enough.
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
.Net is to Microsoft what Websphere is to IBM.
jason
jason
Have a good day?! Impossible! I'm at work!
I've seen a number of posts trying to clarify what .NET is, and they're missing the point. .NET isn't just about web services and so on, which in itself is a good reason to change the name. .NET is a major attempt to shed legacy Windows problems and modernize both Windows itself and Windows application development. If you read the .NET and C# documents, you'll see this. For example, if you want to write a GUI application for Windows today, you have to use one of (a) raw Win32 API, (b) MFC, (c) a cross-platform toolkit like WxWindows, or (d) a tool like Delphi or Visual Basic. By a large margin, the last of these is the cleanest and least stressful--if you're only concerned about Windows that is (of course you can get Delphi for Linux in the guise of Kylix). But .NET is bringing the GUI building features of Delphi and Visual Basic to the OS, so there's support for this from the ground up. Ditto for technologies like DirectX 9. No more do you have to deal with arcane C++ interfaces to COM, you can use a pretty little C# component.
.NET the preferred method for developing Windows applications. If don't like C#, that's okay. Microsoft has been getting indepdendent language developers to port their own languages to .NET, including lesser used languages like Smalltalk, APL, and Mercury.
.NET could be a huge win. No more struggling with Petzold books, just use the much simpler .NET components. No need to hang onto awful legacy frameworks like MFC, which even Microsoft employees hate. No more having to choose between C++ and much slower scripting languages like Python for application development, just use C#.
In short, Microsoft is deprecating most of the Win32 API, making
As much as I hate to say it,
My question is, how did M$ think that by changing the name of their services to xyz.NET were they gonna get me to buy them? I mean, I use windows and word and all that, but unless they give me concrete features, I dont think I'll buy.
.NET Framework; nobody ever knew what it was. I use PHP/MySQL and Apache/Linux; .NET purpoted to change my life, give me wings, and help me have children, but in the last 4 years, I still haven't seen a change in Jack Skizet.
AND
About
AND
If that weren't bad enough, they went around mixing crap up;
Passport (normal, dumb users) with
Framework (developers, highly intelligent, cream of the crop, smartest, biased...) with
XML (something that managers consider the next best thing to sliced bread).
To business executives everywhere:
DO NOT ever make normal people learn what programmers do! It frightens and confuses them! Normal people don't need to be scarred like that!
Anyway, [/rant].
Sig & Below
Yuck Fou
This is just normal Microsoft operating procedure.
We are Microsoft. Lower your firewalls and
surrender your code. We will embrace and extend until we incorporate your technology into our own. Resistance is futile.
The ISR jokes were as far as I know originated by a Russian comidian named Yakov Smirnoff, who used them during his peak popularity in the 1980s. He is now in Branson MO. His web page appears to be down, so here is a basic bio page on him.
More recently, I think it was on an episode of "The Family Guy" that featured a Russian made car that spouted off ISR one liners. I am not sure of the exact show, but I asked the question earlier and got those two respones.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
I never could figure out what .NET was. Could someone please explain it to me?
tell ya whut my first impression when I heard the term "net" associated with "microsoft". OH NO YOU DON'T! They are RICH ENOUGH now, they made "enough" money as far as I am concerned, and they got a confirmed track record of the high level management there being lying weasels. I think of them the same way I think of professional sports "gods" and "artists" out of hollyweird, just way over-paid and over-valued and over-hyped for what ya get. And luckily I'm not in some "business" area where I am forced to use their stuff by the PHBs in order to "make money", thank goodness. I am not gonna get trapped in that "net"! Once is enough thankew very much!Just too many viruses associated with their products, too many security vulnerabilites, and for them to start throwing around buzzwords like "net" and "trusted" they can byte me. Paying 100 clams to get guaranteed viruses is not an option any longer, and any "businesses" still sucked into their crap are being run by idjits, they are wasting money time and effort by the truckload. It's no wonder the US economy is in such weird straights. How many clues do ya need?
If I was car shopping, and I looked up and down the street and all I saw was "belchfire motors" cars in peoples driveways, and every hood was up and the car was being worked on every weekend, I would just not buy a belchfire, even if "everyone buys them" was the reality at the time. Enough's enough for that company, time to move on. When belchfire was first made, sure, it was cool, worked well enough, helped everyone get a car on the road, but something happened, and quality and security became "job 7896" for them. Time to let em go. The guys in the trenches can work someplace else, the fatcats there can live on the profits they got, and if that ain't enough tough kitty, that's the belchfire solution. The "stock holders" I could care less about, I don't believe in either usury or getting something for nothing in the wall street rigged casino scams.
I guess the new version of "Linux Server .ORG" is going to have to change it's name soon. And "Apple OS X .COM" will have to go south. "FreeBSD Server .EDU" may not get off scott free either.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
One thing that really differentiated the difference between .net applications and win32 ones was their appearance, which is different much like the way java apps look different. When Win XP came along with all the skins, this difference has evaporated. WinXP and .net apps have definitly taken some hints from kde/gnome world.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Q:Microsoft made a lot of noise about .Net and Hailstorm, but that seems to have died off now. Any idea what is going on?
.Net, they tried to put the cart before the horse in two ways, first pushing Hailstorm instead of .Net, and then talking up the subscription features of Hailstorm. This made the company seem greedy and also confused developers who were trying to figure out what .Net actually was.
I think .Net could still be a useful platform for web services. But Microsoft has blown the explanation of .Net so completely that it may have to drop the whole thing, rename it, and start over. (emphasis mine)
A:For whatever reason, Microsoft was for a period of time obsessed with the notion of subscribers, whether for software, or Internet access, or whatever, but the idea of people paying an ongoing monthly fee rather than buying packaged software when they wanted to. Now they do have some subscription plans going, with MSN and Xbox Live. But with
Just because the justice setlement just force MS to put Java on their windows if they want to put .net :o)
;)
.net was the worst thing MS have ever done, but i did never imagine it could prove i was right so earlier !!!
MS has trap itself !
Instead of creating a doomed platformed they should have stayed in the Java wisdom where they were the kind leader in the 1998's ! This is where politics tricks
Anyway, i've told a year ago that
-JB'.
.NET?? .NOT
Should be called
haha
I still see Passport (with the .NET brand name) around. Try Expedia.com and scroll to the bottom of the login page. I remember hearing some story about Passport perhaps being less intrusive, but it does not appear to be dead.
Why not call it Windows XP Server? Makes more sense than calling in Windows 2003 Server.
-------------------------
slashdot@com.jarnot (swap the domain)
the more Microsoft keeps screwing its customers and changing up names on people once people figure out they don't want something, the sooner Microsoft will have to hide its products so people don't realize they're made by Microsoft....or maybe they're just too arrogant for that.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A thought occurs re .NET: I understand from an informative Ars Technica article that applications targeted to .NET are compiled to an intermediary bytecode format, a la Java. Now, I've heard from many sources that compiled Java class bytecode can be easily decompiled to source. Is this not fundamentally the case with any bytecode mechanism?
Surely this will be a big concern for Microsoft. Ignoring their anti-OSS FUD, fact is most companies considering .NET probably don't want a sixteen year old kid publishing their top secret eternal life algorithm on the net. How are they (by which I mean Microsoft) going to stop this happening?
You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favourite artist is Picasso.
With subscriptions, you're forcing your customer base to re-evaluate their licensing on a monthly or yearly basis. Each time you ask someone to re-evaluate something, you're risking getting a new answer, like, "fuck paying $50 a month for Office, Ill just try out this OpenOffice Ive heard so much about.". I can just see IT departments going "Well, we need to save the company some money this year. All of our Windows and Office licenses are up in Octoboer. We HAVE to do something, let's just switch to Linux/OOO."
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
From the slashdot blurb:
.NET on so many Microsoft products has confused people as to what .NET actually means.
.NET really is. It was a bad idea for Microsoft to try to add ".NET" to every single product they sell.
Analysts are being quoted as saying that slapping
The entirety of your comment:
They are changing the name because people are getting confused about what
And you got modded +3 Insightful! Not +5 yet, but just wait. All you did was change the wording around, and not even that much!
what happened to the days would at least try to add tons of superfluous fluff around their restatements of the article when trying to karma whore.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
and change the name to something like Microsoft .NOT Server
... and stick with it! I've had to tell many users that the upgrade from 98 is ME, not 2000. 2000 of course is the upgrade to NT. (officially anyways - ME is junk. And yes I know why 2000 is called 2000)
.Net, 98, ME, NT 3.51, 2000.
Or, put the following in order based on release date:
98SE, XP, 3.1, NT4, 95,
Bonus points for identifying the two different windows branches.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
Sounds like something an optometrist uses.
I'm *SO* happy Microsoft is dropping the
"Well, let's see...I can confuse him, anger him, or put him to sleep. Maybe I should fake a heart attack right now...."
What's funny is that Java's networking API is called java.net. You know, like Java.io, java.util, java.awt.image, etc.
.net marketing push I was looking through the API for the first time in a while and saw "java.net" and it immediately made me think of .net, and made me wonder why there was .net support in J2SE. Then I came to my senses :P
I've coded in java for years, and done lots of networking stuff in it, using java.net. But even then, during the height of the
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Why can't we just go back to the old naming method and call it "Windows NT Server" ? Life was so much easier back then!
I guess the next name will be DropNet
FYI, this is microsoft's e-mail sent to all partners: Name Change for Windows .NET Server 2003
Announcement for Microsoft Partners
Applicable To: All Microsoft Partners Worldwide
SUMMARY
The product name Microsoft(R) Windows(R) .NET Server 2003 is being changed, effective January 9, 2003, to "Windows Server 2003." Microsoft is making an effort to clarify the naming and branding strategy for .NET. As support for Web services becomes intrinsic across our entire product line, we are moving toward a consistent naming and branding strategy to better enable partners to affiliate with this strategy and customers to identify .NET-enabled products. The first product to be affected is Windows .NET Server 2003. The new name for the next version of Windows is "Windows Server 2003." This will not affect our time frame for launch, which is still planned for April 2003.
DETAILS
* We are pursuing an overall effort to clarify the naming and branding strategy around .NET. As support for Web services becomes intrinsic across our entire product line, we are moving toward a consistent naming and branding strategy to better enable partners to affiliate with this strategy and customers to identify .NET-enabled products.
* The next version of Windows Server will be formally called "Windows Server 2003." The reason for this is to simplify the product's naming and reconcile it with our branding strategy for .NET.
* "Windows Server 2003" will carry the "Microsoft .NET Connected" logo indicating its ability to easily and consistently connect disparate information, systems, and devices to meet customers' people and business needs (regardless of underlying platform or programming language). This logo is also available for use by our partners who are building solutions on the Microsoft platform to help customers identify solutions and products that support standards-based interoperability.
* The more complete integration of .NET Web services and products is one of several major enhancements in "Windows Server 2003" -- all aimed at providing a highly connected, productive, and dependable infrastructure with excellent economic value for our customers.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
Q) Why the name change?
A) In response to customer and partner feedback to provide clarity around our .NET strategy and programs. Specifically, we are moving toward a branding approach where ".NET Connected" is the way we communicate our products (and our partners' products) that enable customers to easily and consistently connect disparate information, systems and devices to meet their people and business needs, regardless of underlying platform or programming languages.
Q) Why make this change now?
A) Product naming, features, etc. are never final until the product ships -- this is both in response to customer feedback as well as part of a larger effort to provide clarity for customers and partners interested in affiliating with and benefiting from Microsoft .NET.
Q) What changes technically in the Windows Server 2003 product as a result of this name change?
A) There are no feature changes in the product. This is a naming change, and does not affect the functionality of the product in any way.
Q) Will this cause a slip in the Windows Server 2003 product schedule?
A) No -- we remain on track for a worldwide launch of "Windows Server 2003" in April 2003.
Q) Is this an indication that Microsoft is backing away from .NET?
A) Quite the opposite -- "Windows Server 2003" is a major step forward in our effort to provide a highly connected, productive, and dependable infrastructure with excellent economic value for our customers. "Windows Server 2003," with integration of the Microsoft .NET Framework, UDDI services, and other XML Web services support has set the industry bar for Web service development and performance -- combined with the new security, scalability, and performance of "Windows Server 2003" and we are delivering a platform optimized for the next generation of enterprise computing.
And what do you mean *getting* confused? Was there ever a time when the .NOT marketing message was clear?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Windows versions, listed (roughly) in order:
1.03 (I actually have originals of this...)
2.00
286 (at which point "2.00" was renamed "86")
386
3.00
3.1
3.11
95 (this has nothing to do with the "86" number used previously)
NT3.51 (a different number series from 3.11, so why start at 3.51?)
NT4
98
2000
ME
XP
http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsServer2003
(aside from the poor impersonation of an element for a name)
If MS goes ahead with Palladium, I'll be keeping my eye out for the first virus to fool the OS into rejecting every app, regardless of signature. Perfect DOS attack. Can't do anything but reinstall from the installation media, if your DRM bios will let you that is...
This is the main problem with this idea, the owner of the computer no longer has root access to their own machine with this DRM (emphasis on management) software. Ultimately, regardless of the level of knowledge, you cannot change certain settings/fix certain problems because of the micro-micro-kernel that's playing in the backgroung with read and write protection.
It seems to me that Microsoft is making a lot more errors in judgement. The reality is you can't own or control everything. It will always fail. Generally it fails from the inside out. MS has gotten to big and it is trying to control very small things. It is getting to the point where they looking at to many little things today. They are also playing playing catch up with in the public relations game. And that is hurting them. They used to have very creative companys working for them, but now it seems they are just throwing money at the problem areas they see. Take IE, they never really advertised that product. They through money into it and put it in their operating system. Boom most people used, because it was there. MS has really lost their focus. Yea, they a lot of control over government and the US legal system. But little by little that is changing.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
The .net wave a flop ... if you ask this one year ago, people could have never think such a question could be up to date. But today it is !
.net supporter (aside MS itself), IBM has cut the left arm.
.net preffix to its next OS !
.net ask users,developpers and architects ? I mean we've got stuff running : VB/Delphi for simple stuff, Java for entrerprise and portable stuff !
.net framework (the stuff that compete with Java) is doomed to be a dead body within the next year ... but has MS put bucks in the .net suffix, they certainly want their money back !!!
:o)
What have change within a year ?
By acquiring the Rational XDE, the main
By suiting to court MS to force them to put Java on their next OS and win the flag, Sun cut the right arm.
Now there is a body left, and MS just did the funeral by removing the
Why do i care of
Any pragmatic people now agree that
Maybe they could do a Intellipoint.net ?
Slash.NET
I'm worrying and so should you.
It says at the end it can be forwarded, so here goes:
:-)
.NET Server 2003
.NET Server 2003 is being changed, effective January 9, 2003, to "Windows Server 2003." Microsoft is making an effort to clarify the naming and branding strategy for .NET. As support for Web services becomes intrinsic across our entire product line, we are moving toward a consistent naming and branding strategy to better enable partners to affiliate with this strategy and customers to identify .NET-enabled products. The first product to be affected is Windows .NET Server 2003. The new name for the next version of Windows is "Windows Server 2003." This will not affect our time frame for launch, which is still planned for April 2003.
.NET. As support for Web services becomes intrinsic across our entire product line, we are moving toward a consistent naming and branding strategy to better enable partners to affiliate with this strategy and customers to identify .NET-enabled products.
.NET.
.NET Connected" logo indicating its ability to easily and consistently connect disparate information, systems, and devices to meet customers' people and business needs (regardless of underlying platform or programming language). This logo is also available for use by our partners who are building solutions on the Microsoft platform to help customers identify solutions and products that support standards-based interoperability.
.NET Web services and products is one of several major enhancements in "Windows Server 2003" -- all aimed at providing a highly connected, productive, and dependable infrastructure with excellent economic value for our customers.
.NET strategy and programs. Specifically, we are moving toward a branding approach where ".NET Connected" is the way we communicate our products (and our partners' products) that enable customers to easily and consistently connect disparate information, systems and devices to meet their people and business needs, regardless of underlying platform or programming languages.
.NET.
.NET? .NET Framework, UDDI services, and other XML Web services support has set the industry bar for Web service development and performance -- combined with the new security, scalability, and performance of "Windows Server 2003" and we are delivering a platform optimized for the next generation of enterprise computing.
d efault.asp
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(Humor note: I had to do some editing because, as originally formatted, it tripped Slashdot's "Lameness filter
Name Change for Windows
Announcement for Microsoft Partners
Applicable To: All Microsoft Partners Worldwide
SUMMARY
The product name Microsoft(R) Windows(R)
DETAILS
* We are pursuing an overall effort to clarify the naming and branding strategy around
* The next version of Windows Server will be formally called "Windows Server 2003." The reason for this is to simplify the product's naming and reconcile it with our branding strategy or
* "Windows Server 2003" will carry the "Microsoft
* The more complete integration of
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
Q) Why the name change?
A) In response to customer and partner feedback to provide clarity around our
Q) Why make this change now?
A) Product naming, features, etc. are never final until the product ships -- this is both in response to customer feedback as well as part of a larger effort to provide clarity for customers and partners interested in affiliating with and benefiting from Microsoft
Q) What changes technically in the Windows Server 2003 product as a result of this name change?
A) There are no feature changes in the product. This is a naming change, and does not affect the functionality of the product in any way.
Q) Will this cause a slip in the Windows Server 2003 product schedule?
A) No -- we remain on track for a worldwide launch of "Windows Server 2003" in April 2003.
Q) Is this an indication that Microsoft is backing away from
A) Quite the opposite -- "Windows Server 2003" is a major step forward in our effort to provide a highly connected, productive, and dependable infrastructure with excellent economic value for our customers. "Windows Server 2003," with integration of the Microsoft
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... getting a bit monotonous now. It was funny for a while, but now its just tragic. Every single topic that comes up has one now. How long must this go on ?
OUr company does approximately three year cycles. It names a a year about three years in the future, so it has shipped at least one year by the time that year has rolled around. For example "2002" and "2005". In 2004 the nervouse customers feel "sage" buying version 2002.4. The earlier adopters can buy 2005.1.
Hey, is there any way to make moderators take a reading comprehension test about the article before they mark some redundant crap post as insightful?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Everyone is complaining that Palladium will kill open source on Win32
Umm, I think that it's what will simply kill Win32. Period. Or at least kill its viability amongst Win32's current crop of consumers.
Judging by what MS is currently doing in courts with the term "Windows," it's only a matter of time before they claim ownership of the term "Server," and force anybody else using the term to change their name.
The requested URL
Because by now that question truly is funny... in the similar kind of humor in the original Saturday Night Live skits... or Monty Python's "Spam" or the "Knights who Say..."
It could of course be that software development tools have reached a sufficient level of maturity that people don't want anything more than VB5 or VB6. I have this argument with some geeks - they say "ah, but it does better cross-language interoperability", to which I say "and what was COM then, and why aren't MS simply improving COM". What can you not do to serve general business requirements with VB6 and SQL Server? People should concentrate less on getting new tools, and more on how to use existing tools better for their purposes - and maybe spend more time on analysis and design.
...with .NET came from the commercials. Until I read today's Slashdot blurb about .NET, I thought it was all about jacking up wine prices after breaking your entire inventory.
...a bad name in the realm of corporate network administrators who have been having incessant trouble with making it (XP Pro workstation) work on the enterprise network with all the "legacy" win32 apps they still have to run.... and are switching back to W2K Pro workstation in droves. And MS doesn't want you to know that ugly truth.
... but you're preaching to the choir here.
Why would people buy it?
Why would hw manufacturers support it?
Please mod down so others don't click on this goatsex link thats so popular with trolls. Thank you.
I was also confused over the .NET strategy and then I read this artical on osnews.com http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=686.
.NET the Framework is a collection of new APIs, programming languages and development tools that serve this "new way" of doing things. The new APIs are highly object-oriented, and the objects used are accessible by any supported language (VB.NET, ASP.NET, C/C++/C# and recently, even Java). This is a pretty revolutionary feature, having objects accessible by any language.
.NET's new APIs and libraries, applications are just hosts for a series of objects. Now you can load a given functionality found in any object to any .NET application. For example, if you are writing a Microsoft Word document and you insert an image, you might want to apply a certain filter to that image before finishing your document. Word, however, is not really an image manipulation application. Well, with .NET-enabled applications you can load a certain functionality from another installed application (or more importantly, through the web!), perform the specific function and save down your Word document locally or remotely. The thing is, applications are not simple applications anymore. They are hosts of a larger database of functionalities that they can be loaded at any time (for a fee or for free) through the web or locally. Similar feature-set is possible through Corba or OLE, as I said, but they are not standardized, they are difficult to integrate (a real headache for programmers), and they are not cross-platform."
,new revenue streems to continue Microsoft growth, and the winning of OS wars (.Net for the Linux kernal) it would seem a big mistake on Microsoft's part to not fully support this way of working.
To quote some of the artical for those who cant be bothered to go.
"NET is a new way of working things out when using your computer.
With
Given the posibilites
This is a nice idea however and if Microsoft dosn't persue this new strategy some one else will e.g. IBM for example ( just go to google and type Globus).
> Obiwan Kenobi points out a similar article at ENT News
Wow Jedi *do* read slashdot after all!
BoD
SlashNET Server
IIS++
Microsoft VirusLoader
Security Update Collector System (SUCS)
Haxxor Gateway 2003
heh-heh
I made this page for fun more than a year ago: http://home.zonnet.nl/dropdotnet/
Bizar technology?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The .NET features they wanted are in the product.
The next version will be "Windows FU".
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
".failure"
looks liek MS made a mis-step in betting the company on .NET back in 98.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Don't quit your day job. :)
I am puzzled that a project rename would generate 298 posts in Slashdot. I guess everyone had an opinion.
It's what you use to catch the .FISH
Personally, I like to call DRM the Antitrusted Computing Initiative. It captures the goals of Microsoft in this case quite well, I think, and most of all doesn't mislead people into thinking "security" refers to theirs as opposed to Microsoft's in this case.
I'm excited the new generation of MS programmers won't even know how a C switch statement works.
I walked into the dimly lit room and looked around. It seemed something was trying to gain my attention, but in the darkness, everything seemed to blend into one shapeless form or another.
As my eyes adjusted to the low light, I began to make out a scribbling on the far wall...dot not....dot nut....dot nat....dot nit....dot net??? I couldn't make it out and it worried me. Dot what?
I walked over and traced the ragged letters with my finger tips, trying to imagine who did this...and why. The scrawl was halting and labored. The only thing I could be sure of was that, whomever wrote this message, they were clearly in pain.
I backed out of the room and tried in vain to clear my head...what where they trying to say? Who was behind this cry? Was it a warning to stay away or a dieing request for help?
I went on about my rounds...the day shift would be on soon, and I'd have to return to the future. I'd let them work on this one. I'd heard they had another new open source tool that was made just to analyze these. It was too early and too much for me to consider yet another message from the other side...from the past. The last one took part of my soul, and I need the few little fragments that are left...
Actually, tons of people are puzzled by the fact that you are a secret employee of Microsoft and are unwilling to admit it.
Now *thats* puzzling!!
Forget about doing any software development at home -- you won't be given the keys to sign it. Additionaly, forget about running your older software. Since it is unsigned, you won't be able to run it. I sence a boon at microsoft. This could make it possible to kill all of the small software businesses.
Branding is a major part of any business. Sometimes you might have a company with a boring name, but come up with a really neat name for their product like CodeVortex (you get the point).
On the other hand, if you want to accent the name of the company... you might just call something Microsoft Windows.. or the IBM 4000 server.
--------
Free your mind.
Finally they've come to their senses.... of course they should stick with microsoft.com.... microsoft.net is ust plain wrong.
The thing is, none of the last round of server products were .NET in anything other than name anyway.
They were developed in the DNA world - pre-2000 (e.g last versions of Commerce, Biztalk and SQL Server's 2000) which was before MS even began this .NET rebranding excercise. Repackaging them all as .NET only served to confuse people at the time so reverting these guys could be a good thing....
But it sounds like they are dropping the names in the next generation of servers... which are more likeley to have a .NET flavour - Go figure!
Vacancy for signature. Apply within.
I see many "What is .NET" posts here. The best single whitepaper I've seen on .NET is by the Ars Technica folks:
.NET at Ars Technica
Microsoft
cheers.
This may be considered redundant, but ever since MS came up with this whole .NET thing.. i've been thinking.. OK.. sounds waaayy too much like they're trying to do the whole 'Synapse' thing. (Antitrust) About time they wised up.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
That is the most hilarious thing I've seen in ages on Slashdot.
Yes, even better than a Beowulf cluster of Natalie Portman. Mmmmm...
I've said for years that they should stop naming everything 'explorer':
a) the windows file manager: "Windows Explorer"
b) the windows shell "explorer"
c) internet browser: "Explorer"
I guess when the get a name stuck in thier heads, they stick with it.
C# is a lot, lot like Microsoft J++: think of J++ as C# version 0.9.
You forgot NT 3.11, and NT 3.5
Even though NT was 1.0, MS didn't want the 1.0 stigma (specially with MS's 1.0 history) so called it NT 3.11, it's justification was that NT was at the smae level as Windows, so it deserved it. Silly since it's either more advanced (NT based on microkernel, 32-bit, protected memory) or much greener (a 1.0 release).
Ultimately the meaning behind any marketing term is somewhat arbitrary. When Apple came out with the Apple name, it initially didn't mean anything. Over the years it came to mean a lot in the minds of many people. That's kind of what a brand name is all about, right? .NET is the same thing only MS has done a very bad job defining it. Re-naming the Windows .net server is (perhaps) a step in the right direction. If you look at the leaked Q&A from the announcement, it seems very clear to me what they're doing. I'll try to explain in simple terms.
.NET as a web services initiative - basically a way of writing software that uses XML, SOAP, WSDL etc. to allow apps to interoperate. A poor mans COM.
.net framework.
.net framework is - for all intensive purposes three things. First, it's a new programming model for Windows based on the common language runtime that makes it much easier to write secure, stable Windows appps. It also includes a new version of ASP that makes building web-based easier. It also includes facilities that for building XML web services and a bunch of new class libraries for Windows and web apps.
.net into the name of the framework because it confused everyone. To people who can't read the tea leaves, it suggests that any appliacation built ising the framework is a ".net app." In reality, most of the apps built using the .net framework today are just better, more secure Windows apps or ASP/web-based apps.
.net brand is about Web services interop. They obviously still want people to build Windows apps and are making it easier to do so than it has been with Win32/MFC etc. So they're building web services capability deep into their platform -into Windows, into Office I'm sure and into all of their server apps.
.net is to web services/interop. The .net framework programming model/CLR etc is, fundamentally a Windows thing. No surprise, right?
.net framework/CLR programming model and porting it to other platforms. That way they can try to lure ISV's to build "Windows apps" that run on other platforms. I know. Sounds confusing but I think this is accurate.
1. In the beginning they announced
2. The a bunch of marketing goofs started attaching the name to lots of things - most importantly the
3. The
4. The big mistake they made was putting
With the announcement they said in clear terms that the
For developers this is a beautiful thing. They can take it or leave it. They choose to build on Windows based on its merits. Market opportunity, ease of development or whatever. Some may ultimately choose to build on Windows because Windows has good XML web services support.
I think MS's strategy is to continue to make Windows as good as they can and compete with J2 by providing superior support for web services. The theory (just a theory) is that if web services mature then developers can choose whatever platform they want and rely on web services to stitch things together across platforms. This could be a good strategy because it undermines the Java-only argument. No need to build apps on a single platform (middleware platform in this case) because web services provide good cross plat interop.
So, the bottom line is that MS is narrowing what
That said, MS is taking parts of the
This is way MS, IBM and other companies are so excited about web services and why others - particularly SUN, have been a little slow on the uptake. Although this is overly simplistic, Sun/the J2 crowd basically want everything to be Java/J2. IBM will sell anything to anyone. MS wants to make Windows the most attractive platform.
Gosh, this almost sounds like good old competition to me.
Sorry for the ramble but, mark my words, this is the correct interpretation.
I know this from running side by side comparison of different apps written in Java, J# and C#. Jdk1.4.x beats C#. But then again it's the first release, so matching jdk1.1.4/jdk1.2 performance isn't bad. It's probably good enough for most apps. Some of the things that are annoying is System.DateTime isn't accurate for millisecond and submillisecond timing. For that you have to use other windows native libraries.
They did this with ActiveX too. For a while, everybody at MS said their project was part of the ActiveX initiative. Then they scaled back the use of the term
This sort of thing is not uncommon in software companies - they have a new project that becomes flavour of the month, and everybod will try to reclassify their project to fit within the new project. If the new project has attributes A, B and C, a project with attributes C, D and E will claim to be part of the trendy project because of the overlap at C, when the real value of the trendy project is the combination of A, B and C.
The other thing that happens with new projects at software companies is that the entire sales force will want to be selling the new project and ignoring everything else. My theory here is that the salespeople have such tiny brains they can't deal with more than one project at once. The other projects languish for a time, which creates another incentive for them to reclassify themselves into the trendy project's area. This can be a real problem for the company because their staple lines stop selling as much since the salespeople aren't pushing them, and the new trendy thing is either not ready or hasn't built enough following to take up the slack.
Sorry. Just got excited.
Now I have to stop saying "Just say .NYET!".
Why is Microsoft changing the name? Slashdot very beautifully illustrates why. Most people don't really know what it is and attribute it to a ton of other things which are only marginally related to .NET, if at all. .NET is a multilanguage development framework designed to replace the c-centric Win32. It takes many of the ideas of COM, mixes it with ideas from Java, Delphi, and a dozen other places, and comes up with a component-driven environment. This framework has such things as XML built deeply into the core, which, along with Microsoft's ASP.NET, makes it a formidable WebServices platform. WebServices aren't .NET, but they are a type of application you can develop on them. Notably I interop WebServices between .NET and Java often without issue; it's all very seamless.
I miss the days when the name of the software was followed by a version number. But noooOO0OOoooo, we've gotta be all flashy and crap. This is what, NT6 or 7 or something? This whole drop-the-version-number-and-give-it-a-flashy-name- instead thing gives me a headache.
Truth, Just Us, And Hatred For All Mankind!
I thought that .Net meant Bill Gates Underwear Line
Since the adoption of his underwear line is zero to nil I guess it is time to change the name and market it again.
I guess lets hype it that it can wipe your bottom too and put condom on your tiny pee pe like Bill Gates.
Essentially I like the idea of creating a system where you can physically guarantee short of physically modifiying hardware on the microchip level that a program will do "X"
How does palladium guarantee that a program will do anything? all palladium does is ensure that microsoft-signed programs cannot be tampered with, not even by the person who owns them and the computer they're running on.
And the "not even by the person who owns them" is the only new part. We've had all the rest of that for decades. On any modern operating system, a program running as user A cannot tamper with a program running as user B, unless some programmer made a mistake somewhere. But palladium is susceptbile to human error too. Another example, the java applet sandbox.
Haha well we got the last laugh. .Net adoption is zero.
Everey one is using Java.
Linux will kill windows desktop too.
Ahh there is a god.
It is likely that some managers heard of visual studio
http://visualstudio.net redirects to http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/default.asp.
M$ finally realized how buggy .Net is and renamed it .Not .
.NET
R.I.P
I had to reply to this.
That is great writing, my friend, in both style and substance. Not that I am by any means an expert.
But, I'm no idiot either and, that sort of writing is (mostly) wasted on this board. Have you ever heard of casting pearls before swine?
You should be published. Have you tried?
If not, you should.
I've refreshed /. about 20 times, trying to get the "Microsoft .NET ad" I got earlier today when I was at work. Micros~1 can advertise on /. ? never knew that. Wish i'd taken a screen capture.
-Carpe Diem (lizardbox)
I told you .NET wasn't a serious M$$$ strategy. They dropped it completely!!!
microsoft (is) .NOT worth the money .NOT a business server .NET lets bugs slip right through .NOT an internet application (or very fast for that matter) .NOT something new .NOT stable .NOT even a threat to Playstation or Gamecube .NOT an innovator .NOT the answer .NOT an equal player in the industry .NOT to be trusted .NOT finished .NOT ready to ship .NOT user-friendly .NOT an original product (or even their own product) .NOT going to boot up this time .NOT secure
.SUX, .BILL (founder of M$ and what you pay to M$), .MS, .NT, .DOS (the real truth), .WIN .BLUE, .BUG -> my favorite
.BUG Server .BUG Home Edition .DOS .BUG (more bugs 4 j00) .BILL 21st Century Edition 2003 .BUG -> OK, I'm done
windows (is)
Office (is)
Visual Studio (is)
Windows (is)
the Micro$oft XBux, it's
Microsoft (is)
Microsoft (is)
Microsoft (is)
Microsoft (is)
Windows (is)
Windows (is)
Windows (is)
Windows (is)
Windows (is)
Windows (is)
product monikers for future M$ products:
let's try some of these out
Microsoft Windows
Microsoft Windows
Microsoft Windows (really is)
Microsoft Plus! for Windows
Microsoft Windows
www.windows.blue (KABOOM!)
Shawn D. Pullum
Microsoft marketing .NET is like ford running dumptruck commercials during the superbowl. It's a commercial product, if I need a compiler I know where to get it, if I need a tool I know where to go (I'll start in Redmond first).
.NET has bombarded me from every direction, I usually keep up with MS stuff despite my dislike for them, I gave up on this, the term seems to mean everything Microsoft, but it then seems to mean specific things in certain instances. It's f&cking confusing.
.NET
I half thought the MS marketeers were watching the smurfs and instead of smurf the used the word
New Smurf technology enabled my Smurf application with expanded communication using the Smurf framework on the Smurf advanced server.
I figure if street musicians can play in subways, I can drop bytes here:
Published?
- 50+ countries
- 15+ languages
- 10+ million printings per year for the last 4 years running.
I'm a technical writerOne of these days I'll find a publisher and get out of this rat race. If you know anyone, please tell me, thanks.
All that money spent for no .net gain.
C# is Java with the capitalization Gone Wrong.
.Net is C++ with "crippled" syntax - no templates, for example.
.Net and C# are nessicarily all bad, mind you. What I am saying is that in .Net, all roads lead to C# and other languages under .Net are really C# training wheels. You can choose to use the training wheels as long as you like, but if you want to really do anything you have to take them off someday...
.Net is, like Java, very heavily library based (in that most anything you want to do involves a number of library calls from a fairly rich library) - and those lbraries are most naturally accessed in C#. When using other languages, they will have varying ranges of ease to access these libraries but C# is always there at the end of the curve beckoning you closer.
C++ is C++.
C++ under
I'm not saying that
Part of that is because
For perhaps something more like what you were looking for, you might want to read Ten Top Traps in C# for C++ Programmers.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
When we received the early CE 4.0 Platform Builder kit, we noticed it was now called CE.Net. And there was a bright red sticker on the box that said .Net Compact Framework included.
.Net, no Compact Framework with it. This company needs to get its act together. Obviously marketing is in charge here, which is good news for the slashdot crowd.
But it was all wrong, it had no
IIRC a prof teaching maeketing in college mentioned something like "It is a good marketing strategy to confuse the customers by flooding the market with similar products". May be applicabe in the case of software also. Just look at the LARGE number of products in the markets with miniscule differences in their contents advertised as "all new" "latest" "contains XXXX formula". The same old principle. Selling is selling
If slapping .NET on so many Microsoft products has confused people as to what .NET actually means, what effect will slapping 200x on so may Microsoft products do to the average consumer's understanding of natural numbers?
There arises from a bad and unapt formation of words a wonderful obstruction to the mind. (Francis Bacon)
Well, on a smaller scale. I think they tried to rebrand lotsa things as Notes or Domino...even though they had nuffink to do with N or D.
The stock standard AS/400 http server suddenly became Domino or Notes. Confused everybody. Was dropped in a matter of weaks.
The reason they are changing its name is .NET hasn't given very many IT managers a hard on. .NET has had spectacular failures associated with it. They would be insane to label anything they wanted to sell .NET after all the negative press .NET has received.
Well, when I go to http://www.microsoft.net/ I get the great words:
.net is about "smart living", whatever that means, or whatever Gill Gates thinks it means.......damn, gotta get rid of my dumb Linux, freebsd and Apple boxes, and bring back the dead MS boxes i used to run...
.net is all about, making everybody need Microsoft......
"Smart Living See how new and future Microsoft products and technologies showcased at CES will help you have fun, keep in touch, and be entertained."
So, from that, I guess:
1.
2. I will be wearing a Microsoft watch sometime in the future......damn again, i really like my mechanical automatic Officine Panerai Militare...do I really have to have a Microsoft watch in order to live smart and keep in touch and be entertained and have fun?
3. I will need a tablet PC.......damn...I just want the new Powerbook 17" G4, do I really need a table PC running XP? I hate XP...arg. Guess I will have to if i want to keep in touch, have fun and be entertained...
4. My mobile phone will run windows........damn..I really like my Nokia....guess that does not keep me in touch, let me have fun, or entertain me...............
I guess we all need Microsoft to have fun, keep in touch, and be entertained, that is what
Real men don't need signitures!!!
My personal favorites were: .crash .gotcha .sucker .allyourprocessesarebelongtous
and of course
#SickNotWeak
You've been able to create trusted scripts on Windows for a while now.
Since Windows Scripting Host 5.6 at least.Comment removed based on user account deletion
I.e. language-independent, but you don't have to write your own marshalling routines and stuff.
Sheesh. It is very unfortunate that people who read too much of the M$ FUD & propaganda really go out and regurgitate this bs. Bill must just laugh his can off.
.NET no matter what garbage M$ wants you to believe.
Look my dear chap, XML is a metalanguage. It is *not* an application and language of
SOAP is, well, here's what the letters stand for to give you a hint "Simple Object Access Protocol".
The basic point here is that you can write SOAP apps, or use XML, or build web services in many many many languages. Python, Perl, Java, just to name a few. Read some of the great books and articles by folks like Brett McLaughlin and Doug Tidwell. Enlighten thyself!
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You should look into fictional, tech-style writing. You have an excellent way with prose, and your short writing was a bit haunting, mixed in with hope - I loved it. Just something to consider - you have the knack.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Does it really make a difference?
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Pardon my posting a reply in a story, but I have no other way of getting a note to you. Hopefully you will see this.
When trying to go to my own user account a typo had me looking at user "r". You've posted some great comments and I decided to mark myself as your fan.
Hopefully this crazy zoo system will help with the 'noise' level of comments on SlashDot; Because I must agree with you that I occaisonally consider giving up.
RudeDude
Perl/Linux/PHP hacker