If someone was selling a $200 Chrome OS device I would snap it up for browsing on the go
They're due to come out around Christmas 2010. Real netbooks (not the Tivo-oized locked-in crap google's partners are putting out) will be $200 by then (You can get a real netbook for $250 today).
Chrome OS will update itself, and its components and extensions will be
cryptographically signed, so that if malware is detected, the system will
automatically re-image itself and restore data from the cloud.
No way to install a different distro, or to install printer drivers locally (so if your printer isn't supported, you have to buy another printer), since that will cause a checksum fail, and the thing will just re-image itself. For $200, I'd buy the "real" netbook instead. This is "open" in the same way that a Tivo is "open" - you can have the source, you can modify the source - but you can't USE the mods, so the source is useless to you.
There's nothing preventing you from buying an Intel Mac and installing something else on it - but with these devices, Google just beat out Apple for computer vendor lock-in. Think about it, and maybe revise your shopping plans.
Granted Chrome isn't going to do all these things but dualbooting so you have quick access to the web within 7 seconds will be popular with a lot of people e who don't want a smartphone or find a smartphone's small screen insufficient, and you'll be able to do this as long as they keep is open source
Dual-booting isn't an option with the ChromeOS netbooks that google's partners are putting out. The bios does a checksum of the installed software - any modifications, and it re-images itself. These are Tivo-ized devices. Considering that you can get a "real" netbook for $250 today, and they'll be down to $200 by Christmas 2010 when the ChromeOS netbooks come out, why would anyone consider such a locked-in device that probably won't even work with your printer (you can't install drivers, since you can't mod the OS, so if your printer or scanner isn't supported - and most aren't - you'll have to spend more money on one that is).
Chrome OS will update itself, and its components and extensions will be
cryptographically signed, so that if malware is detected, the system will
automatically re-image itself and restore data from the cloud.
It's not just for "malware detection" - any mods will cause the machine to fail the checksum test. So don't be naive and think that this is a real netbook - this is a welfarebook designed to extract money from people too poor to be able to afford $250 for a real netbook. "Buy this netbook for only $150 and get this pay-as-you-go ass-rape data plan for "only" $20 a gigabyte*, (*some limitations may apply. minimum of $40 a month. $200 early cancellation fee blah blah blah)". We've seen this model before - with cell phones.
My beef is that these netbooks are NOT open. You can't re-image them with another OS, or even the linux distro that you prefer. This is a trojan. This is the exact opposite of "Do not be evil." Still want to buy one? Even Microsoft permits you to add drivers and run other software on machines that have Windows installed on them - or remove Windows completely and install linux, or dual-boot.
Nope - this was a Motorola v60 gsm. You're not supposed to keep any antenna in direct contact with, or within 1.5 cm of, your body. Just one of many search results.
Warning: Don't carry your cell phone in your pocket
Radiation exposure guidelines have been established by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Some cell phone manufacturers post a warning to consumers that phones should only be used with an approved body-worn accessory (a holster), often supplied by the manufacturer (at additional cost). The reason for the required use of a holster is that if the cell phone isn't kept a certain distance away from your body, you may be exposed to radiation exceeding FCC guidelines.
This warning is supposed to appear in the documentation that comes with each cell phone. It is in the 'fine print' of the user manual packaged with most cell phones. Is it in yours?
It's important to take the time to look.
There's a lot more information, including a link to the FCC site so you can find out what your phone's SAR (Standard Absorption Rate) is.
The children are right to mock you AC. Google honors robots.txt, if a news outlet doesn't want their site indexed, all they need to do is put a deny rule in it.
1. So why doesn't Murdoch just put a robots.txt file in his sites? It's because he WANTS them to be indexed... but he also wants to get $$$ for it.
2. So his sites will appear on bing and not google? Sounds like the quality of google searches just went up.
3. I'm sure the sites that will replace NewsCorp properties in the searches can't believe that Christmas came early.
[_] They're hoping the aliens will succumb to Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field.
[_] At our nearest stellar neighbour, Soviet Centaurans serve YOU. (yum yum thx 4 gene seq bzzzt!)
[_] Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line. Your call is important to us. Please stay...
[_] What? Can you hear me now? What? Frakking Aldebaran Telephone and Telecommunications! Get me a Droid!
[_] Get the base ships ready to jump! We've found the 13th colony!
[_] Oh shit. Spaceballs! Oh well, there goes the galaxy...
[_] What, is your planet still there? The highway goes through next wee, you know!
[_] The.... answer.... is.... 42.... point.... (click) Your time is up. Please insert another 50 million galactic credits to call again.
[_] The borg collective are pissed off at how you've portrayed them. They'll be in your area soon to "discuss it." BTW, we're calling first dibs on your planet.
[_] Sorry, we don't want any illegal aliens in the neighborhood. Please go to another quadrant or we'll have to report you.
[_] Why did the zhicvben cross the whowde? To get to the other side! Thank you, thank you. I'm here all diurnal-periods-times-7. Try the phizch.
[_] That is the most odious and obscene collection of insults and violations of universal taboos any alien race has ever sent our way. Prepare to die, earth scum! We will be avenged!
Let's hope that either they're not there, or they can't hear us if they are, or if they can hear us, they can't reach us, because the odds are that what we'll have is a failure to communicate.
we can't even communicate properly between spouses - it's an incredible conceit to think we could get it right first time with an alien species, and not break any taboo, or accidently insult them... of that they'd be friendly.
Survival of the fittest means that the predators get to the top of the heap. Don't invite predators unless you *know* that you're better able to defend yourself than they are.
I'm not talking about regular netbooks. These netbooks are going to be completely locked down - the code is signed and checksummed, and on boot, if it doesn't check out, the device will re-image itself. The only "selling feature" for that is going to be price, since a "real" netbook can do everything this can, plus more. By next Christmas, a real netbook is going to be $200 (as opposed to $250 now, and there will be further advances in batteries and power management). They'll have to really cut corners to get the price far enough below that to give anyone an incentive to buy a very limited machine. So, it's more of a welfarebook than a netbook.
Look, the statement I quoted, and addressed was clear, and wrong:
"The simple fact is, that electric cars are by far the only efficient means of moving."
I cited examples of different modes of transportation that are more efficient than electric cars. Keep it in context. The statement that electric cars are by far the only efficient means of moving - period is a blatant falsehood. Attempting to imply that it's not true, or trying to quote something else when the immediate context is not only clear, but fully quoted, is cowardly and dishonourable.
You really do need to work on putting the 'u' in honour.
A human requires more food energy and emits more CO2 for doing the same amount of [mechanical] work as a gas engine. The benefit of human work is that usually they can get the job done only having to move themselves or a smaller machine(like a bike), and not some big honking multiton hunk of steel too. However, if you try to get the human to move a big machine, indirectly, you will have to contend with even more [carbon] pollution, both from cellular metabolism and extra costs to make/ship food(food is not an efficient fuel).
Not true. A car uses up a week's worth of oxygen (and emits the corresponding amount of carbon dioxide) moving one city block. I can push that same car the same distance in under an hour - I certainly don't use up a week's worth of oxygen. My internal temperature doesn't hit 750F, like the flame front in the engine. I don't emit nearly as much heat - which means I'm not burning up as much energy - but the car is still moved the same distance.
Muscle power is surprisingly efficient. Two oxen can plow a field more efficiently than a tractor, and they'll also fertilize it at the same time.
PLoS ONE, if you didn't know, is a public-access scientific journal publishing enterprise. No more use/abuse of scientists as creator of content AND reviewers of content (who both do this for free) and then only releasing the articles for profit, for the next 100 years. I am thoroughly disgusted by this business model which takes the work of us scientists, gives nothing back and then profits from it. Fuck that.
Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe you can submit a story about them? It's certainly News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters.
It's bad enough that too many university students are limited to pay-walled articles that their uni has bought a license to. Papers that were freely available online a decade ago have now disappeared except for abstracts and "you can get the rest of this article for $34.95".
Good thing we still have the Wayback Machine, but it doesn't cover nearly enough.
I'm contrasting the potential of the Droid (and other smartphones, including by extension the iPhone and Blackberry) to their target audience, to the proposed ChromeOS netbook and its target audience.
The two have similarities... for example, you'll have to jailbreak your ChromeOS netbook if you want to run modified source. However, for a general-purpose small-format "web appliance" for quick searches, a tweet here and there, email, and other applications that actually suit its form factor, the Droid wins. Pictures? Smartphones win there. Nobody's going to whip out a netbook to take candid pictures. Email? Smartphones win again, due to their better portability. Netbooks are portable, but smartphones are even more so, and that gives them a strategic advantage. So, word processing and spreadsheets? Do you *really* want to do that on a tiny netbook? Didn't think so. Netbooks are for surfing the net, not running desktop apps, but the proposed netbook is cripple(hard)ware.
Chrome OS will update itself, and its components and extensions will be cryptographically signed, so that if malware is detected, the system will automatically re-image itself and restore data from the cloud.
It's not just malware that will be disallowed by this system. Unless you have the signing key (not necessary for code under the GPLv2 license), you won't be able to modify the OS, or wipe it and install a different one. That's Tivo-ization. We expect something like that with smartphones, for which the initial purchase price is usually subsidized by the carrier, but not with computers that we pay the full shot up front. "Don't be evil?"
People have completely ignored this, just like they've ignored the printer and scanner problem - unless ChromeOS supports it, you'll have to by a compatible printer and scanner. Of the 3 laser printers I have (two of which claim linux compatibility), only 1 - the oldest - is. And support for the wide-format printer isn't the greatest either, so good luck with that too...
Ordinary netbooks that I'm free to wipe down, that are compatible with my printers, etc., are $250. By Christmas of 2010, when this is supposed to come out, they'll be under $200. Just how much cheaper will they be able to make a limited-functionality ChromeOS netbook? $30 cheaper isn't going to cut it (and that's what the current "Microsoft tax" is). $50? I don't think so - $150 for a very limited machine, or $200 for one that I don't have to worry about working with my hardware? Even businesses will be taking a pass under those conditions.
And the retailers are going to hate these. Having to explain that their printer might not work, that no, you can't run software except what you can run in the browser... and not being able to sell the customer extras like a game or software package... retailers will just point out that it's probably cheaper to just spend the extra and get a "real" netbook, that can still do everything that the ChromeOS-based netbook can do, and more.
So, both products - Android and ChromeOS - are from google, but one I think is good, one I think sucks. There's no "fan-dom" hon my part, just a contrast in the handling of two products from the same company - one has a natural constituency, and one is an already obsolete "thin client solution" that people have already rejected over and over. Google branding isn't going to change that. People want the "Personal" in "Personal Computer."
If you want to see "fans-on-crack" look at the posters who accuse me of being a Microsoft shill, or who can't see the difference between ChromeOS and the proposed hardware/software netbook combo, and just swallow it all because "google good, everyone
But why would I want to spend money on a device that ONLY does web apps? Real netbooks (ones that I can actually install and run what I want) are selling for $250 right now. Not just "special deals" on the web - at the local retailer. By next fall, when these chrome-netbooks come out, a "real" netbook will be under $200, and be better than what's out there today. So how are they going to compete, price-wise? If they try to sell them for $150, almost everyone will be up-sold to the competitors' "real" netbook computer instead - and the few that buy the ChromeOS netbook will find excuses to return them within the 14-day return policy period.
So, lower the price to $100? Retailers won't want to carry it at that price, because they can't sell anything else afterwards. It's not like they'll be able to sell them games, or apps, or anything. So retailers aren't going to want to sell these things. "Sure, we can sell you one - but it doesn't work with any of the printers we have, and probably doesn't work with yours, and it doesn't play any of your games, and it won't run any of your software."
And do you really expect people to do spreadsheets and docs on a tiny screen and tiny keyboard as anything except a novelty? This is a "welfare pc", as in "gee, I guess you can't afford a real laptop."
And what does that have to do with the cheap locked-down netbook (which is going to be comparatively poor, resource-wise - also there are problems with copyright and licensing wrt the nativecode project, but thats another issue - see below) that re-images itself if you try to mod it?
Also, why wouldn't I just run the app in its' own native code? A browser doesn't give me any advantages that a sandbox/vm wouldn't.
We've got to start thinking about what comes AFTER the browser. Just like we have to start thinking about what comes AFTER centralized search.
Re: "nativecode project" - copyright law doesn't permit you to transform a work without permission (there were cross-compilers that could do this with binaries so they could work on other platforms, either once, or at run-time - they never got traction for this reason), so you'd actually have to fully emulate the operating system from within the browser. At that point, who needs the browser? "As a way to deliver it" doesn't cut it. "Security" is already provided by a vm. It's probably a fun research project, it's trying to extend the browser in ways that are just not smart. It's like teaching a dog to vote - cute trick, but meaningless in the larger scheme of things. "It will provide hooks into the code to do neat things" - again, illegal without permission.
Besides, that's all beside the point. It should be obvious (since I say that Droid is one of the things that's making ChromeOS netbooks obsolete before the first one gets sold) that my beef isn't with google, it's with the stupid idea that there's a market for a locked-down, cripple(hard)ware netbook when a "real" netbook only costs $250.00, and will be under $200 by next fall when the Chrome-moronbook hits retailers. Retailers will only use it to get people in the stor to up-sell.
Did you get paid double for this post? Really?! nobody has noticed how this guy have been fucking trolling ALL Chrome OS discussions?
How can someone develop so much hatred against something that is not even released yet? Were you fired from Google? Are You out of medication? Astroturfer or just an MS employee?(S)Chill out man.
Truth hurts, doesn't it? Can't knock what I've written, so you attack the messenger. For the record, I have not been fired from google (though I do have 3 years dev work at another search engine); I am not taking any mind-altering drugs, legal or non-legal; and I have never worked for microsoft.
Google doesn't always get it right. Neither does Microsoft. Neither do I. It's the same as politics - I've criticized Bush and Palin and McCain, and now I criticize Obama - because the best way to fix something is to first admit that there's a problem.
Torvalds has the right attitude - work with whomever wants to do a good job and produce and use good code. If Microsoft were to decide tomorrow that they wanted to port the Windows shell to linux, I'd be 100% for it. Not because I'm a Windows fan - I'm not - but because, done right, it would probably be good for the entire ecosystem. Think of it - RedHat and Novell could even offer support for linux-based Windows systems:-) And we'd no longer hear "my games don't run under linux". And fewer viruses (sure, linux becomes a higher-profile target, but that's a good thing. Find the mistakes, fix them. It's not like the source isn't/wouldn't be available.)
It might even force Apple to offer OSX independent of their hardware for a change.
One thing is for sure - it would be a game-changer. But this ChromeOS? Having worked in the biz, I can say that, unlike the Droid and its' ilk, it's not a way to get a captive market of quality search clicks with any monetary value. There's no business case for it. There's no educational case for it. There's not even an "grandma can use it" scenario - grandma needs a decent-sized screen a lot more than she needs portability. Next years' full-featured $200 netbooks (They're currently @ $250) will do more, and be an easier up-sell in the retail channel. That's the reality.
You know when the most dangerous time is for someone who has suicidal tendencies. It's when they cheer up - it might mean that they've made the final decision to end it all. They'll be happy, smiling, giving away their stuff, party-party-party - and then they kill themselves.
Not only can you not diagnose whether someone's suffering from depression (it's NOT "gee, I'm depressed") by just looking at pictures - it's actually against the shrinks' professional code here in Quebec to proffer a diagnosis or ANY opinion without actually having examined the patient.
The proper course for the insurance company would have been to get a second opinion.
Kanuckistan. East Kanuckistan. More specifically, Poutine-ville:-)
(What the rest of Canada calls "f*cking *$&(##(& Quebec bastards!"), so a meet-up is a bit of a problem, but that's okay. Anyway, it's 2:30 in the morning here, and I've got to hit the hay - I've got some stuff to write tomorrow (on ChromeOS) for someone, and I've got to hit the sack.
How does Android, a cell phone OS that might find its way onto some palmtops, encroach on ChromeOS's market at all?
It's not the OS, it's the device. The device can do everything that a ChromeOS netbook can do, and more. Supposedly, the selling point of a ChromeOS netbook is to simplify your life. I'll simplify it all right - one device instead of two. One smartphone that does phone calls, multimedia, web browsing, email, and everything else that a ChromeOS netbook can do that anyone wants to do.
Nobody's going to do their homework on a crappy tiny netbook. the display's too small, the keyboard's too small.
A ChromeOS netbook, at least in the near future, is always going to be cheaper than a Windows netbook (lower hardware specs and no Microsoft royalties),
Right now, I can walk into a store and buy a "real" netbook - not a limited-use, crippled, drm-ed (yes, the ChromeOS netbook that they described has drm - it does a checksum on boot and does a complete re-image off the net if it's been modified) for $250.00. That's not a "special price" - we don't have "Black Friday up here. By next fall when the ChromeOS netbooks are introduced, that same "real" netbook is going to be $200, but with better specs. In other words, the market is now pretty much completely commoditized. Even if they were to sell it for $150, nobody's going to buy it, and at $100, it will be regarded as a cheap toy. It's literally going to be priced out of the market because of the drastic downward price of regular netbooks.
Then there's the blowback from Microsoft. I should imagine they're not too happy with Google timing their announcement the way they did. All they have to do is announce a Windows shell for linux exclusively for netbooks and they kill it dead immediately. It also solves the problem of requiring hardware specs, since it's linux under the hood in both cases. They'd also whack google's stock while giving theirs a boost. And they could sell it for "only" $30 more than ChromeOS, and make out like bandits. Heck, they don't even have to deliver it for a year or two... same as Windows 3.0.
The only people who will buy this next year are those who can't come up with $200 for a "real" netbook - not a very good market for a netbook that doesn't work too well offline, since those same people can't afford an Internet connection. they should have buried the idea when they could.
And no, before you respond, the gOS computer had nothing to do with google. That's not the point. The point is that people aren't going to pay for a limited device when they can pay the same, or slightly more, for something they perceive as better. The gOS boxes became come-ons to get people in the store. Once there, "well, you need a monitor, you need a printer... gee, by the time you add it all up, why not spend $100 more and get this much better system?"
Retailers will do the same thing with this. "Why buy that netbook when you can get this much better one that will let you run many more applications and has better printer support for $50 more? This way, you don't have to buy a new ChromeOS-specific printer. The money you save pays for the 'upgrade'!"
The problem is that, as currently envisioned, it is totally locked down. If you red the articles out there, the bios does a check on the installed software at boot, and if its' been modded, the device is re-imaged. Its been 3 years in the making and its going to be as bad a failure as the Walmart gOS computer was. People want their computer to be "their" computer. Not Bill Gates computer. Not Google's computer.
A "real netbook" (not some locked down piece of shit) is $250, no special deal, no 1-day promotion, no mnimum quantities, no locked-down-can't-install-adblock-or-any-non-web-app crap.
Let's take a riff from the Droid commercial.
Proposed ChromeOS netbook:
Adblock? iDon't!
Non-browser apps? iDon't!
Alternate operating systems? iDon't!
Free as in libre? iDon't!
Printer support? iDon't!
They've admitted that printer driver support is going to be a big problem, because of the inability to mod the OS image to accommodate the individual users printer, so you're looking at a limited subset of printers being supported, and even then, not all the functionality in each model. Even a $250 Windows netbook is better. And that's scary.
And like I said, it hasn't been just 48 hours - it's been 3 years. The market has changed a lot in those 3 years. $1,000 laptops have morphed into $250 netbooks. $100 iPhones. Nobody needs a thin client in the home, and there are better solutions for business.
The only cred that's in danger of being destroyed here is Googles. They've announced a product that has no market, a solution with no problem. They should have just quietly let it die of attrition, or morphed it into something else - like a REAL distro - but we already have enough of them, so that wouldn't work. It would be really funny if Microsoft steals a page from their book and announces a Windows shell for linux the same week they go to market. The worst part - it's VERY doable, and it would be extremely disruptive. Seeing the timing of Google's announcement, there's at least a small chance that someone in Redmond is thinking just that, because if there's one thing Microsoft is known for, its brutal marketing. And that would be brutal.
Grandma already knows how to use a computer. She already surfs the web, sends email, etc. she's not a fucking retard. and if she is, she's not on the net, and a locked-down netbook isn't going to change that.
It can't turn a profit because when margins are as low as they're going to have to be to compete with "real" netbooks at the current price of $250 retail, no favours asked, right now today (which will be down below $200 by next fall when ChromeOS comes out), one customer support call wipes out the profit from a dozen machines. One return kills the profit from 50 to 100 machines. For $225, I can get grandma a Wii + wii speak, and she can surf the net, teleconference, email, share pictures, blog, watch youtube videos, etc - and she won't be stuck with a tiny screen that she can't read without a magnifying glass, and she won't have to worry about viruses, and it's 17 wotts. And when the grand-kids come, they have something to play with. And when they're not around, she can use it to get some exercise to help prevent osteoperosis.
So grandma either isn't on the net and isn't going to be, or she already is, or there's a better alternative already out there than ChromeOS has to offer.
There's literally no market for this outside the SSI/welfare/abject poverty crowd. The ones who can't come up with $200 for a netbook. So you have to give it to them, and subsidize the cost with ad search revenue. The problems with that are that advertisers don't want subsidized traffic, and respectable (and even not-so-respectable) advertising aggregators ban it, and that if they can't afford a netbook, how are they going to come up with the money for Internet access every month?
If it's $100, people will buy an iPhone instead. If it's $200, they'll buy a Droid instead, or a "real" netbook that's not locked down. If it's less than $100? It'll be regarded as a toy, or a "welfare laptop." It's doomed.
Seriously, I made up these questions because I think that ChromeOS is over-hyped solves a problem that doesn't exist. Why would I want a netbook with a tiny screen and a miniscule keyboard to do anything other than check email when I don't have either my laptop (linux) or my desktop (linux)? And if I need that, why not just get a Droid (my pref - I've always liked Motorola and I'm glad to see them in the game again. Just waiting for a gsm model sometime next year) or an iPhone instead, and have only one device instead of two to lug around?
It's going to do a checksum on boot, so the software is locked down (supposedly so that if some evil malware corrupts the os, it'll be re-imaged automagically, but it's Tivoisaton, no matter how you look at it - forget about adblock, flashblock, or anything else), so unless you want to spend time jailbreaking it, you're better off with something else anyways. In that respect, it's worse than a standard netbook (currently as cheap as $250 retail, no favours), which you can stick anything you want on.
How are they going to compete? Sell it for $100? For that price, I'd buy an iPhone instead. For a couple of hundred, a Droid or a "real netbook" is the no-brainer alternative.
Free, subsidized by revenue from searches? Advertisers won't want to pay for clicks from the "welfare OS" crowd - and that's what a free or ad-subsidized device would be. Crap for someone who can't afford $200 for a real netbook and who's stuck on shitty dial-up or lowest-tiered broadband possible. They're the bane of advertisers. The crowd who sits at home on SSI or welfare and makes a few bucks for beer money doing PPC (pay-per-click). It's part of the click fraud problem, worse than bots because the traffic is human, can solve the captchas just as (un)reliably as other humans, and will never generate a penny of revenue. But Google won't care, as long as some of the advertisers are stupid enough to pay for the clicks, or don't notice them mixed in with the rest of the traffic.
Low-power video teleconferencing? My desktop and my laptop already do that out of the box. The wii does that with a $25 add-on. Spreadsheets and word processing? I want a decent-sized screen, and that costs money. Web surfing? Smart phones, laptops, desktops, netbooks - there's no compelling reason to chose a locked-down ChromeOS netbook over any of the alternatives, unless it's free as in $$$, because it sure isn't free as in libre.
Slashdot Mirror
You must not have a teen-age daughter :-) Any number of phones is always one too few.
They're due to come out around Christmas 2010. Real netbooks (not the Tivo-oized locked-in crap google's partners are putting out) will be $200 by then (You can get a real netbook for $250 today).
http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/web_services/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=221900360
No way to install a different distro, or to install printer drivers locally (so if your printer isn't supported, you have to buy another printer), since that will cause a checksum fail, and the thing will just re-image itself. For $200, I'd buy the "real" netbook instead. This is "open" in the same way that a Tivo is "open" - you can have the source, you can modify the source - but you can't USE the mods, so the source is useless to you.
There's nothing preventing you from buying an Intel Mac and installing something else on it - but with these devices, Google just beat out Apple for computer vendor lock-in. Think about it, and maybe revise your shopping plans.
Dual-booting isn't an option with the ChromeOS netbooks that google's partners are putting out. The bios does a checksum of the installed software - any modifications, and it re-images itself. These are Tivo-ized devices. Considering that you can get a "real" netbook for $250 today, and they'll be down to $200 by Christmas 2010 when the ChromeOS netbooks come out, why would anyone consider such a locked-in device that probably won't even work with your printer (you can't install drivers, since you can't mod the OS, so if your printer or scanner isn't supported - and most aren't - you'll have to spend more money on one that is).
http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/web_services/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=221900360
It's not just for "malware detection" - any mods will cause the machine to fail the checksum test. So don't be naive and think that this is a real netbook - this is a welfarebook designed to extract money from people too poor to be able to afford $250 for a real netbook. "Buy this netbook for only $150 and get this pay-as-you-go ass-rape data plan for "only" $20 a gigabyte*, (*some limitations may apply. minimum of $40 a month. $200 early cancellation fee blah blah blah)". We've seen this model before - with cell phones.
My beef is that these netbooks are NOT open. You can't re-image them with another OS, or even the linux distro that you prefer. This is a trojan. This is the exact opposite of "Do not be evil." Still want to buy one? Even Microsoft permits you to add drivers and run other software on machines that have Windows installed on them - or remove Windows completely and install linux, or dual-boot.
There's a lot more information, including a link to the FCC site so you can find out what your phone's SAR (Standard Absorption Rate) is.
FAIL. http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/buy/SAMSUNG-E1100-VRW15-WEB15
So you can't buy it without spending a minimum of "Only £19.95". That's several times more than "under $10.00" - more like $33.25 at today's rates.
1. So why doesn't Murdoch just put a robots.txt file in his sites? It's because he WANTS them to be indexed ... but he also wants to get $$$ for it.
2. So his sites will appear on bing and not google? Sounds like the quality of google searches just went up.
3. I'm sure the sites that will replace NewsCorp properties in the searches can't believe that Christmas came early.
[_] At our nearest stellar neighbour, Soviet Centaurans serve YOU. (yum yum thx 4 gene seq bzzzt!)
[_] Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line. Your call is important to us. Please stay
[_] What? Can you hear me now? What? Frakking Aldebaran Telephone and Telecommunications! Get me a Droid!
[_] Get the base ships ready to jump! We've found the 13th colony!
[_] Oh shit. Spaceballs! Oh well, there goes the galaxy
[_] What, is your planet still there? The highway goes through next wee, you know!
[_] The
[_] The borg collective are pissed off at how you've portrayed them. They'll be in your area soon to "discuss it." BTW, we're calling first dibs on your planet.
[_] Sorry, we don't want any illegal aliens in the neighborhood. Please go to another quadrant or we'll have to report you.
[_] Why did the zhicvben cross the whowde? To get to the other side! Thank you, thank you. I'm here all diurnal-periods-times-7. Try the phizch.
[_] That is the most odious and obscene collection of insults and violations of universal taboos any alien race has ever sent our way. Prepare to die, earth scum! We will be avenged!
Let's hope that either they're not there, or they can't hear us if they are, or if they can hear us, they can't reach us, because the odds are that what we'll have is a failure to communicate.
we can't even communicate properly between spouses - it's an incredible conceit to think we could get it right first time with an alien species, and not break any taboo, or accidently insult them ... of that they'd be friendly.
Survival of the fittest means that the predators get to the top of the heap. Don't invite predators unless you *know* that you're better able to defend yourself than they are.
I'm not talking about regular netbooks. These netbooks are going to be completely locked down - the code is signed and checksummed, and on boot, if it doesn't check out, the device will re-image itself. The only "selling feature" for that is going to be price, since a "real" netbook can do everything this can, plus more. By next Christmas, a real netbook is going to be $200 (as opposed to $250 now, and there will be further advances in batteries and power management). They'll have to really cut corners to get the price far enough below that to give anyone an incentive to buy a very limited machine. So, it's more of a welfarebook than a netbook.
Are you sure you're on the right site? This is slashdot.
A subsidized "free" phone is not free. Break the contract, pay the pro-rata price of the phone. Don't be dishonest - save it for Troll Tuesday :-)
I cited examples of different modes of transportation that are more efficient than electric cars. Keep it in context. The statement that electric cars are by far the only efficient means of moving - period is a blatant falsehood. Attempting to imply that it's not true, or trying to quote something else when the immediate context is not only clear, but fully quoted, is cowardly and dishonourable.
You really do need to work on putting the 'u' in honour.
Not true. A car uses up a week's worth of oxygen (and emits the corresponding amount of carbon dioxide) moving one city block. I can push that same car the same distance in under an hour - I certainly don't use up a week's worth of oxygen. My internal temperature doesn't hit 750F, like the flame front in the engine. I don't emit nearly as much heat - which means I'm not burning up as much energy - but the car is still moved the same distance.
Muscle power is surprisingly efficient. Two oxen can plow a field more efficiently than a tractor, and they'll also fertilize it at the same time.
Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe you can submit a story about them? It's certainly News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters.
It's bad enough that too many university students are limited to pay-walled articles that their uni has bought a license to. Papers that were freely available online a decade ago have now disappeared except for abstracts and "you can get the rest of this article for $34.95".
Good thing we still have the Wayback Machine, but it doesn't cover nearly enough.
I'm contrasting the potential of the Droid (and other smartphones, including by extension the iPhone and Blackberry) to their target audience, to the proposed ChromeOS netbook and its target audience.
The two have similarities ... for example, you'll have to jailbreak your ChromeOS netbook if you want to run modified source. However, for a general-purpose small-format "web appliance" for quick searches, a tweet here and there, email, and other applications that actually suit its form factor, the Droid wins. Pictures? Smartphones win there. Nobody's going to whip out a netbook to take candid pictures. Email? Smartphones win again, due to their better portability. Netbooks are portable, but smartphones are even more so, and that gives them a strategic advantage. So, word processing and spreadsheets? Do you *really* want to do that on a tiny netbook? Didn't think so. Netbooks are for surfing the net, not running desktop apps, but the proposed netbook is cripple(hard)ware.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/web_services/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=221900360
It's not just malware that will be disallowed by this system. Unless you have the signing key (not necessary for code under the GPLv2 license), you won't be able to modify the OS, or wipe it and install a different one. That's Tivo-ization. We expect something like that with smartphones, for which the initial purchase price is usually subsidized by the carrier, but not with computers that we pay the full shot up front. "Don't be evil?"
People have completely ignored this, just like they've ignored the printer and scanner problem - unless ChromeOS supports it, you'll have to by a compatible printer and scanner. Of the 3 laser printers I have (two of which claim linux compatibility), only 1 - the oldest - is. And support for the wide-format printer isn't the greatest either, so good luck with that too ...
Ordinary netbooks that I'm free to wipe down, that are compatible with my printers, etc., are $250. By Christmas of 2010, when this is supposed to come out, they'll be under $200. Just how much cheaper will they be able to make a limited-functionality ChromeOS netbook? $30 cheaper isn't going to cut it (and that's what the current "Microsoft tax" is). $50? I don't think so - $150 for a very limited machine, or $200 for one that I don't have to worry about working with my hardware? Even businesses will be taking a pass under those conditions.
And the retailers are going to hate these. Having to explain that their printer might not work, that no, you can't run software except what you can run in the browser ... and not being able to sell the customer extras like a game or software package ... retailers will just point out that it's probably cheaper to just spend the extra and get a "real" netbook, that can still do everything that the ChromeOS-based netbook can do, and more.
So, both products - Android and ChromeOS - are from google, but one I think is good, one I think sucks. There's no "fan-dom" hon my part, just a contrast in the handling of two products from the same company - one has a natural constituency, and one is an already obsolete "thin client solution" that people have already rejected over and over. Google branding isn't going to change that. People want the "Personal" in "Personal Computer."
If you want to see "fans-on-crack" look at the posters who accuse me of being a Microsoft shill, or who can't see the difference between ChromeOS and the proposed hardware/software netbook combo, and just swallow it all because "google good, everyone
But why would I want to spend money on a device that ONLY does web apps? Real netbooks (ones that I can actually install and run what I want) are selling for $250 right now. Not just "special deals" on the web - at the local retailer. By next fall, when these chrome-netbooks come out, a "real" netbook will be under $200, and be better than what's out there today. So how are they going to compete, price-wise? If they try to sell them for $150, almost everyone will be up-sold to the competitors' "real" netbook computer instead - and the few that buy the ChromeOS netbook will find excuses to return them within the 14-day return policy period.
So, lower the price to $100? Retailers won't want to carry it at that price, because they can't sell anything else afterwards. It's not like they'll be able to sell them games, or apps, or anything. So retailers aren't going to want to sell these things. "Sure, we can sell you one - but it doesn't work with any of the printers we have, and probably doesn't work with yours, and it doesn't play any of your games, and it won't run any of your software."
And do you really expect people to do spreadsheets and docs on a tiny screen and tiny keyboard as anything except a novelty? This is a "welfare pc", as in "gee, I guess you can't afford a real laptop."
And what does that have to do with the cheap locked-down netbook (which is going to be comparatively poor, resource-wise - also there are problems with copyright and licensing wrt the nativecode project, but thats another issue - see below) that re-images itself if you try to mod it?
Also, why wouldn't I just run the app in its' own native code? A browser doesn't give me any advantages that a sandbox/vm wouldn't.
We've got to start thinking about what comes AFTER the browser. Just like we have to start thinking about what comes AFTER centralized search.
Re: "nativecode project" - copyright law doesn't permit you to transform a work without permission (there were cross-compilers that could do this with binaries so they could work on other platforms, either once, or at run-time - they never got traction for this reason), so you'd actually have to fully emulate the operating system from within the browser. At that point, who needs the browser? "As a way to deliver it" doesn't cut it. "Security" is already provided by a vm. It's probably a fun research project, it's trying to extend the browser in ways that are just not smart. It's like teaching a dog to vote - cute trick, but meaningless in the larger scheme of things. "It will provide hooks into the code to do neat things" - again, illegal without permission.
Besides, that's all beside the point. It should be obvious (since I say that Droid is one of the things that's making ChromeOS netbooks obsolete before the first one gets sold) that my beef isn't with google, it's with the stupid idea that there's a market for a locked-down, cripple(hard)ware netbook when a "real" netbook only costs $250.00, and will be under $200 by next fall when the Chrome-moronbook hits retailers. Retailers will only use it to get people in the stor to up-sell.
Truth hurts, doesn't it? Can't knock what I've written, so you attack the messenger. For the record, I have not been fired from google (though I do have 3 years dev work at another search engine); I am not taking any mind-altering drugs, legal or non-legal; and I have never worked for microsoft.
Google doesn't always get it right. Neither does Microsoft. Neither do I. It's the same as politics - I've criticized Bush and Palin and McCain, and now I criticize Obama - because the best way to fix something is to first admit that there's a problem.
Torvalds has the right attitude - work with whomever wants to do a good job and produce and use good code. If Microsoft were to decide tomorrow that they wanted to port the Windows shell to linux, I'd be 100% for it. Not because I'm a Windows fan - I'm not - but because, done right, it would probably be good for the entire ecosystem. Think of it - RedHat and Novell could even offer support for linux-based Windows systems :-) And we'd no longer hear "my games don't run under linux". And fewer viruses (sure, linux becomes a higher-profile target, but that's a good thing. Find the mistakes, fix them. It's not like the source isn't/wouldn't be available.)
It might even force Apple to offer OSX independent of their hardware for a change.
One thing is for sure - it would be a game-changer. But this ChromeOS? Having worked in the biz, I can say that, unlike the Droid and its' ilk, it's not a way to get a captive market of quality search clicks with any monetary value. There's no business case for it. There's no educational case for it. There's not even an "grandma can use it" scenario - grandma needs a decent-sized screen a lot more than she needs portability. Next years' full-featured $200 netbooks (They're currently @ $250) will do more, and be an easier up-sell in the retail channel. That's the reality.
You know when the most dangerous time is for someone who has suicidal tendencies. It's when they cheer up - it might mean that they've made the final decision to end it all. They'll be happy, smiling, giving away their stuff, party-party-party - and then they kill themselves.
Not only can you not diagnose whether someone's suffering from depression (it's NOT "gee, I'm depressed") by just looking at pictures - it's actually against the shrinks' professional code here in Quebec to proffer a diagnosis or ANY opinion without actually having examined the patient.
The proper course for the insurance company would have been to get a second opinion.
Kanuckistan. East Kanuckistan. More specifically, Poutine-ville :-)
(What the rest of Canada calls "f*cking *$&(##(& Quebec bastards!"), so a meet-up is a bit of a problem, but that's okay. Anyway, it's 2:30 in the morning here, and I've got to hit the hay - I've got some stuff to write tomorrow (on ChromeOS) for someone, and I've got to hit the sack.
TTYL
It's not the OS, it's the device. The device can do everything that a ChromeOS netbook can do, and more. Supposedly, the selling point of a ChromeOS netbook is to simplify your life. I'll simplify it all right - one device instead of two. One smartphone that does phone calls, multimedia, web browsing, email, and everything else that a ChromeOS netbook can do that anyone wants to do.
Nobody's going to do their homework on a crappy tiny netbook. the display's too small, the keyboard's too small.
And no, before you respond, the gOS computer had nothing to do with google. That's not the point. The point is that people aren't going to pay for a limited device when they can pay the same, or slightly more, for something they perceive as better. The gOS boxes became come-ons to get people in the store. Once there, "well, you need a monitor, you need a printer ... gee, by the time you add it all up, why not spend $100 more and get this much better system?"
Retailers will do the same thing with this. "Why buy that netbook when you can get this much better one that will let you run many more applications and has better printer support for $50 more? This way, you don't have to buy a new ChromeOS-specific printer. The money you save pays for the 'upgrade'!"
The problem is that, as currently envisioned, it is totally locked down. If you red the articles out there, the bios does a check on the installed software at boot, and if its' been modded, the device is re-imaged. Its been 3 years in the making and its going to be as bad a failure as the Walmart gOS computer was. People want their computer to be "their" computer. Not Bill Gates computer. Not Google's computer.
A "real netbook" (not some locked down piece of shit) is $250, no special deal, no 1-day promotion, no mnimum quantities, no locked-down-can't-install-adblock-or-any-non-web-app crap.
Let's take a riff from the Droid commercial.
Proposed ChromeOS netbook:
Adblock? iDon't!
Non-browser apps? iDon't!
Alternate operating systems? iDon't!
Free as in libre? iDon't!
Printer support? iDon't!
They've admitted that printer driver support is going to be a big problem, because of the inability to mod the OS image to accommodate the individual users printer, so you're looking at a limited subset of printers being supported, and even then, not all the functionality in each model. Even a $250 Windows netbook is better. And that's scary.
And like I said, it hasn't been just 48 hours - it's been 3 years. The market has changed a lot in those 3 years. $1,000 laptops have morphed into $250 netbooks. $100 iPhones. Nobody needs a thin client in the home, and there are better solutions for business.
The only cred that's in danger of being destroyed here is Googles. They've announced a product that has no market, a solution with no problem. They should have just quietly let it die of attrition, or morphed it into something else - like a REAL distro - but we already have enough of them, so that wouldn't work. It would be really funny if Microsoft steals a page from their book and announces a Windows shell for linux the same week they go to market. The worst part - it's VERY doable, and it would be extremely disruptive. Seeing the timing of Google's announcement, there's at least a small chance that someone in Redmond is thinking just that, because if there's one thing Microsoft is known for, its brutal marketing. And that would be brutal.
Grandma already knows how to use a computer. She already surfs the web, sends email, etc. she's not a fucking retard. and if she is, she's not on the net, and a locked-down netbook isn't going to change that.
It can't turn a profit because when margins are as low as they're going to have to be to compete with "real" netbooks at the current price of $250 retail, no favours asked, right now today (which will be down below $200 by next fall when ChromeOS comes out), one customer support call wipes out the profit from a dozen machines. One return kills the profit from 50 to 100 machines. For $225, I can get grandma a Wii + wii speak, and she can surf the net, teleconference, email, share pictures, blog, watch youtube videos, etc - and she won't be stuck with a tiny screen that she can't read without a magnifying glass, and she won't have to worry about viruses, and it's 17 wotts. And when the grand-kids come, they have something to play with. And when they're not around, she can use it to get some exercise to help prevent osteoperosis.
So grandma either isn't on the net and isn't going to be, or she already is, or there's a better alternative already out there than ChromeOS has to offer.
There's literally no market for this outside the SSI/welfare/abject poverty crowd. The ones who can't come up with $200 for a netbook. So you have to give it to them, and subsidize the cost with ad search revenue. The problems with that are that advertisers don't want subsidized traffic, and respectable (and even not-so-respectable) advertising aggregators ban it, and that if they can't afford a netbook, how are they going to come up with the money for Internet access every month?
If it's $100, people will buy an iPhone instead. If it's $200, they'll buy a Droid instead, or a "real" netbook that's not locked down. If it's less than $100? It'll be regarded as a toy, or a "welfare laptop." It's doomed.
Gliders, roller blades, barges, trains - they can all be more efficient than electric cars.
Ouch! Very nice!
Seriously, I made up these questions because I think that ChromeOS is over-hyped solves a problem that doesn't exist. Why would I want a netbook with a tiny screen and a miniscule keyboard to do anything other than check email when I don't have either my laptop (linux) or my desktop (linux)? And if I need that, why not just get a Droid (my pref - I've always liked Motorola and I'm glad to see them in the game again. Just waiting for a gsm model sometime next year) or an iPhone instead, and have only one device instead of two to lug around?
It's going to do a checksum on boot, so the software is locked down (supposedly so that if some evil malware corrupts the os, it'll be re-imaged automagically, but it's Tivoisaton, no matter how you look at it - forget about adblock, flashblock, or anything else), so unless you want to spend time jailbreaking it, you're better off with something else anyways. In that respect, it's worse than a standard netbook (currently as cheap as $250 retail, no favours), which you can stick anything you want on.
How are they going to compete? Sell it for $100? For that price, I'd buy an iPhone instead. For a couple of hundred, a Droid or a "real netbook" is the no-brainer alternative.
Free, subsidized by revenue from searches? Advertisers won't want to pay for clicks from the "welfare OS" crowd - and that's what a free or ad-subsidized device would be. Crap for someone who can't afford $200 for a real netbook and who's stuck on shitty dial-up or lowest-tiered broadband possible. They're the bane of advertisers. The crowd who sits at home on SSI or welfare and makes a few bucks for beer money doing PPC (pay-per-click). It's part of the click fraud problem, worse than bots because the traffic is human, can solve the captchas just as (un)reliably as other humans, and will never generate a penny of revenue. But Google won't care, as long as some of the advertisers are stupid enough to pay for the clicks, or don't notice them mixed in with the rest of the traffic.
Low-power video teleconferencing? My desktop and my laptop already do that out of the box. The wii does that with a $25 add-on. Spreadsheets and word processing? I want a decent-sized screen, and that costs money. Web surfing? Smart phones, laptops, desktops, netbooks - there's no compelling reason to chose a locked-down ChromeOS netbook over any of the alternatives, unless it's free as in $$$, because it sure isn't free as in libre.