I think this is the relative paragraph of the GPL that covers this:
However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.
In other words, the GPL does not need to apply to the target OS' runtime libraries or developer tools. If it did, then GPL applications could only be built with GPL compilers on GPL operating systems.
Sounds more like a name of some diabolical, secret plot to rule the world.
Actually, it's a diabolical secret plot to genetically engineer the perfect Judge. That Janus project failed when it produced Sylvester Stallone and Armand Assante. If only Microsoft's effort would meet the same fate, with Rob Schnieder as a sidekick.
And a Windows port of the GPL X11 version does exist, but, as you can see from the link, it has fallen on hard times. It seems that removing all the unix dependencies; reimplementing Windows-integration features like COM interop and accessibility from scratch; supporting gcc, mingw, Borland, and Microsoft compilers; and making sure it's all compatible with Trolltech's existing libraries for Windows is more than a couple of hackers can knock out in a weekend. That's an awful lot of wheel-reinvention, just so Trolltech can feel all warm and fuzzy about "supporting Linux".
You can still get the Windows 2.x version of Qt under the GPL.
There has never been a GPL version of Qt for Windows from Trolltech. The 2.x version is available for download, if you know where to look. The 3.x version is only available on the CD that accompanies "C++ GUI Programming with Qt 3". Both are licensed under a toothless "non-commercial" license.
Please. Have you ever heard of the phrase "training budget"?
If you're a company writing software for multiple platforms, you'd either hire specialists for each platform you intend to support, and make sure your developers are well-trained by those specialists, or you'd have the good sense to choose a framework that supports multiple platforms in the first place, like Java or Qt, and train your developers in that framework. If your idea of training is a bookmark to a forest of technical documentation, or a copy "Teach Yourself %API_YOUVE_NEVER_USED_BEFORE% In 21 Days" on each dev's desk, your project will have some very hard times ahead.
If you're going to tar someone with the epithet "troll" because they dared speak well of Microsoft, you're going to have to do better than an easily-deflated conspiracy theory.
(Disclaimer: I am a DirecTV subscriber who is quite happy with his DirecTivo receiver.)
Moore's Law: A complete non-sequitur. Tivo's value was never in the MPEG encoder. That merely provides compatibility with analog sources. It's the software, stupid. That's where Tivo still maintains the lead. Louderback has a good point that Tivo should have pursued a deal with Echostar more aggressively, instead of waiting until it was too late and whipping out the patent hammer, but getting to that point was a long, irrelevant trip. I guess he needed to fill a few column-inches.
HDTV: Again, the hardware is not where Tivo makes the money. Ensuring sufficient storage and throughput for multiple HD streams must have cost some R&D bucks, but everything related to decoding HD is expensive right now. Yes, the HD DirecTivo costs a whopping US$1000. But there's no such thing as a cheap HD STB, unless you go rummaging on eBay. Until something forces the STB prices down in proportion to screen prices, $1000 will be what the market bears. Maybe that's why the Moxi is still vapor...
Howlin' Mad Murdoch: Finally, a good point. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Rupert Murdoch is going to ruin what is, smart card paranoia aside, a Good Thing. DirecTivo manages to hit the sweet spot between power and usability. I'd hope that, once he gets some Tivo-knowlegable people in his organization, he'll stick with Tivo when DirecTV becomes Sky America.
Reading comprehension problem
on
Melting Europa
·
· Score: 5, Funny
What part of "All these worlds are yours, execpt Europa. Attempt no landings there." don't they understand?
This is the final proof of Darl McBride's madness. DaimlerChrysler?! Does he have any idea how much trouble he's asking for? If McBride ever followed any of those "I drove 65 mph in a 25 mph zone, the wrong way down a one way street, and my 4-year-old son was unbelted in the front passenger seat, and he died in the crash because your airbag deployed too forcefully" lawsuits, he'd realize that the Chrysler Group has the meanest, most ornery, rabid pit bull lawyers to ever take a bar exam. And that's just the American half!
RE: KDE-Cygwin: Read the Roadmap. Nowhere do they ever state that they are progressing beyond removing the X11 dependency. So what if there's "very little". It's either dependent on Cygwin, or it's not. And maybe KDE-Cygwin : Windows:: Mono : Linux would be a better analogy. Both are chasing somebody else's public-but-closed APIs. Neither will acheive parity until the target API either stagnates or Opens.
RE: FAQ: What more is there to read? That is the only question that relates to a Free version for Windows. When Trolltech says "the platform strategy", they mean "Apple threw Open Source a bone with Darwin (even though they're keeping the crown jewels of OS X closed). Microsoft hasn't Opened anything. You wanna support that? Fsck off."
RE: KDE-Cygwin: One requires X11, the other doesn't. Both, however, require Cygwin for non-UI functions! Only Trolltech has a fully native Win32 implementation of Qt.
RE: Trolltech's reasons: All they publicly state is in their Free Edition FAQ:
Q: Now that you have Free editions of both Qt/X11 and Qt/Mac, why don't you also have a free edition of Qt/Windows?
A: Trolltech supports free software development on platforms where contributing to Free Software/Open Source development is part of the platform strategy. At the time being it does not seem natural for us to release a free edition for Qt/Windows.
In plainer terms: "We're pushing the blame onto Microsoft. Fsck off."
Pedantic interpretations of the parent post aside, it's still no substitute for the latest version of Qt for Windows, which already exists, made available under the GPL. AFAICT, Trolltech is withholding it for no other reason than to tell developers of Free software for Windows to fsck off. Yeah, it's their right to do that. And we have a right to bitch about it.
Of course, that still doesn't explain how "takes six months to release" becomes "sits on". Oh, wait. "Posted by michael..." Can't let something little like a credible source get in the way of a good MS slam, eh Sims? You just keep justifying my.sig, and I'll keep my money in my pocket.
I thought there wasn't a non commercial version of qt for windows.
There was, then there wasn't, now there is again. Trolltech withdrew the old non-comm version late last year because it was based on 2.3, and every other supported platform/license combination was on 3.x. The book includes a non-commercial version of 3.2 for Windows.
Strange, I thought, that they don't even know they're already here.
If you saw them around NYC, it's because Mercedes-Benz USA is still headquartered in New Jersey (even though DaimlerChrysler's US HQ is in Auburn Hills, MI). I'll bet they had manufacturer's plates. Smarts still aren't available for sale to the general public yet. Foreign car makers occasionally bring over non-US models for evaluation. I recall vtec.net having spy photos of the Japanese-market Honda Avancier that were taken at Honda's Marysville, OH, plant.
If SP2 was only bug fixes, you'd complain that there were no security fixes. If SP2 were only security fixes, you'd complain about the lack of bug fixes. You just refuse to be happy, don't you?
Who cares what model they showed? They're advertising their build quality.
You must have missed Nissan's "Toys" image spot. You know, the one with the 300ZX Twin Turbo convertible that was pulled from the US market the year before the ad came out?
It's a shame, too. The ad was quite clever. A "G.I. Joe" action figure leaps into a remote control 300ZX, drives down the hall of a family's house to the sister's room, and picks up "Barbie" at her dream house, much to "Ken's" dismay (I use quotes because they didn't use the actual trademarked dolls), set to the tune of Van Halen's cover of "You Really Got Me".
It's hard to sell a sporty image when interested buyers are told "you're a year late, but we have this lovely Altima." These were the same ad wizards that gave us Infiniti commercials that didn't show the car, and Nissan's "Dogs Love Trucks" tagline. They don't have the Nissan account anymore.
Portability has always, right from the start, been a big concern of the GNU project.
And portability has also been Qt's most distinctive feature. Just pay attention to the fact that you can have portable or Free, but not both.
The point is not to play favourites, or to try and "lock in" people to Linux, despite the temptation.
I can't emphasize that enough. It's Trolltech's bad attitude in a nutshell. Their motivation is revenge against Microsoft Corporation. It's developers and end users that take the damage, though.
Lots of other things get censored for almost no reason (say "fuck" once, have a sinister looking artwork).
That's not no reason. If I had an eleven year old, I would not want him or her exposed to music which uses obscene references to sexual references.
Wal-Mart doesn't just censor sexual references. The cover of John Mellencamp's "Mr. Happy Go Lucky" album was altered to remove an angel and a devil, because it was "insensitive to their non-Judeo-Christian customers". Sheryl Crow's self-titled album was flat-out banned from Wal-Mart because of one line of one song that cited an incident where a 13-year-old bought a gun at a Wal-Mart. (Source: PBS.com)
Here's the rub. Wal-Mart does not disclose what has been altered. "Mr. Happy Go Lucky" and "Sheryl Crow" are well known because Mellencamp and Crow raised a colossal stink about having to alter their work to meet the moral standards of one corporation. But how many other CDs sitting in American homes have been altered without the owner of the disc even knowing that the original version exists?
Wal-Mart and I share those values. I choose to support their choice of values. So do millions and millions of Americans.
Of course. They are, by far, the largest retailer in the United States. That gives them the power to justify anything they choose. Outside the entertainment department and magazine rack, it's all just goods for sale. Do you honestly think every single solitary case of motor oil Wal-Mart sells is a mandate for their campaign of moral enforcement? Many don't know, most don't care.
In the end, it still comes down to one thing: A massive corporation, with tremendous power in the marketplace, abusing that power to the benefit of its bottom line, and the detriment of "consumers". It's no more right for Wal-Mart to impose its morality on musicians than it is for Microsoft to force NGSCB onto your computer. Sure, as individuals, we have Linux and our favorite indie record stores, but at the macro level, Microsoft and Wal-Mart still win.
No Ogg? forget it! ( here's my dollar walking away ).
Ah, but that's the beauty of HomePod: Open firmware! I'm sure it won't be long before you can download a patch that supports your Codec of Choice. So don't let that dollar get too far away.
After this long, they should just give 3D Realms the Vladimir And Estragon Lifetime Achievement Award, and drop DNF from the ballot.
Re:Stuck with Windows?
on
PC Annoyances
·
· Score: 1
It's like dealing with a relative who's an alcoholic or drug addict. The solution is so simple (stop taking drugs), but they just get angry if you suggest that.
Are you this condescending when you tell them that? No wonder they're angry. Open Source is a Good Thing, and needs to be promoted whenever possible. But if you can't promote what's good about Linux without denigrating Windows users, you're no longer an evangelist; you're just an asshole.
Slashdot Mirror
Hmm, let's query sourceforge.net for GPL projects that target Win32, and see what comes up, shall we? So far, I see:
Sorted by activity, the 100th project on the list has an Activity Percentile of 97.83.
Mr. Eng needs to look in more places than Tucows.
I think this is the relative paragraph of the GPL that covers this:
In other words, the GPL does not need to apply to the target OS' runtime libraries or developer tools. If it did, then GPL applications could only be built with GPL compilers on GPL operating systems.
Actually, it's a diabolical secret plot to genetically engineer the perfect Judge. That Janus project failed when it produced Sylvester Stallone and Armand Assante. If only Microsoft's effort would meet the same fate, with Rob Schnieder as a sidekick.
Those "others" that ported the Mac version would be Trolltech themselves.
And a Windows port of the GPL X11 version does exist, but, as you can see from the link, it has fallen on hard times. It seems that removing all the unix dependencies; reimplementing Windows-integration features like COM interop and accessibility from scratch; supporting gcc, mingw, Borland, and Microsoft compilers; and making sure it's all compatible with Trolltech's existing libraries for Windows is more than a couple of hackers can knock out in a weekend. That's an awful lot of wheel-reinvention, just so Trolltech can feel all warm and fuzzy about "supporting Linux".
There has never been a GPL version of Qt for Windows from Trolltech. The 2.x version is available for download, if you know where to look. The 3.x version is only available on the CD that accompanies "C++ GUI Programming with Qt 3". Both are licensed under a toothless "non-commercial" license.
Please. Have you ever heard of the phrase "training budget"?
If you're a company writing software for multiple platforms, you'd either hire specialists for each platform you intend to support, and make sure your developers are well-trained by those specialists, or you'd have the good sense to choose a framework that supports multiple platforms in the first place, like Java or Qt, and train your developers in that framework. If your idea of training is a bookmark to a forest of technical documentation, or a copy "Teach Yourself %API_YOUVE_NEVER_USED_BEFORE% In 21 Days" on each dev's desk, your project will have some very hard times ahead.
If you're going to tar someone with the epithet "troll" because they dared speak well of Microsoft, you're going to have to do better than an easily-deflated conspiracy theory.
(Disclaimer: I am a DirecTV subscriber who is quite happy with his DirecTivo receiver.)
Moore's Law: A complete non-sequitur. Tivo's value was never in the MPEG encoder. That merely provides compatibility with analog sources. It's the software, stupid. That's where Tivo still maintains the lead. Louderback has a good point that Tivo should have pursued a deal with Echostar more aggressively, instead of waiting until it was too late and whipping out the patent hammer, but getting to that point was a long, irrelevant trip. I guess he needed to fill a few column-inches.
HDTV: Again, the hardware is not where Tivo makes the money. Ensuring sufficient storage and throughput for multiple HD streams must have cost some R&D bucks, but everything related to decoding HD is expensive right now. Yes, the HD DirecTivo costs a whopping US$1000. But there's no such thing as a cheap HD STB, unless you go rummaging on eBay. Until something forces the STB prices down in proportion to screen prices, $1000 will be what the market bears. Maybe that's why the Moxi is still vapor...
Howlin' Mad Murdoch: Finally, a good point. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Rupert Murdoch is going to ruin what is, smart card paranoia aside, a Good Thing. DirecTivo manages to hit the sweet spot between power and usability. I'd hope that, once he gets some Tivo-knowlegable people in his organization, he'll stick with Tivo when DirecTV becomes Sky America.
What part of "All these worlds are yours, execpt Europa. Attempt no landings there." don't they understand?
This is the final proof of Darl McBride's madness. DaimlerChrysler?! Does he have any idea how much trouble he's asking for? If McBride ever followed any of those "I drove 65 mph in a 25 mph zone, the wrong way down a one way street, and my 4-year-old son was unbelted in the front passenger seat, and he died in the crash because your airbag deployed too forcefully" lawsuits, he'd realize that the Chrysler Group has the meanest, most ornery, rabid pit bull lawyers to ever take a bar exam. And that's just the American half!
Agree. We're both being too stubborn and obstinate to listen to each other.
RE: KDE-Cygwin: Read the Roadmap. Nowhere do they ever state that they are progressing beyond removing the X11 dependency. So what if there's "very little". It's either dependent on Cygwin, or it's not. And maybe KDE-Cygwin : Windows :: Mono : Linux would be a better analogy. Both are chasing somebody else's public-but-closed APIs. Neither will acheive parity until the target API either stagnates or Opens.
RE: FAQ: What more is there to read? That is the only question that relates to a Free version for Windows. When Trolltech says "the platform strategy", they mean "Apple threw Open Source a bone with Darwin (even though they're keeping the crown jewels of OS X closed). Microsoft hasn't Opened anything. You wanna support that? Fsck off."
RE: KDE-Cygwin: One requires X11, the other doesn't. Both, however, require Cygwin for non-UI functions! Only Trolltech has a fully native Win32 implementation of Qt.
RE: Trolltech's reasons: All they publicly state is in their Free Edition FAQ:
In plainer terms: "We're pushing the blame onto Microsoft. Fsck off."
Just a reminder
Pedantic interpretations of the parent post aside, it's still no substitute for the latest version of Qt for Windows, which already exists, made available under the GPL. AFAICT, Trolltech is withholding it for no other reason than to tell developers of Free software for Windows to fsck off. Yeah, it's their right to do that. And we have a right to bitch about it.
Ah. Thank you.
Of course, that still doesn't explain how "takes six months to release" becomes "sits on". Oh, wait. "Posted by michael..." Can't let something little like a credible source get in the way of a good MS slam, eh Sims? You just keep justifying my .sig, and I'll keep my money in my pocket.
Where did that quote come from? I didn't see it in the linked AP article.
There was, then there wasn't, now there is again. Trolltech withdrew the old non-comm version late last year because it was based on 2.3, and every other supported platform/license combination was on 3.x. The book includes a non-commercial version of 3.2 for Windows.
If you saw them around NYC, it's because Mercedes-Benz USA is still headquartered in New Jersey (even though DaimlerChrysler's US HQ is in Auburn Hills, MI). I'll bet they had manufacturer's plates. Smarts still aren't available for sale to the general public yet. Foreign car makers occasionally bring over non-US models for evaluation. I recall vtec.net having spy photos of the Japanese-market Honda Avancier that were taken at Honda's Marysville, OH, plant.
If SP2 was only bug fixes, you'd complain that there were no security fixes. If SP2 were only security fixes, you'd complain about the lack of bug fixes. You just refuse to be happy, don't you?
You must have missed Nissan's "Toys" image spot. You know, the one with the 300ZX Twin Turbo convertible that was pulled from the US market the year before the ad came out?
It's a shame, too. The ad was quite clever. A "G.I. Joe" action figure leaps into a remote control 300ZX, drives down the hall of a family's house to the sister's room, and picks up "Barbie" at her dream house, much to "Ken's" dismay (I use quotes because they didn't use the actual trademarked dolls), set to the tune of Van Halen's cover of "You Really Got Me".
It's hard to sell a sporty image when interested buyers are told "you're a year late, but we have this lovely Altima." These were the same ad wizards that gave us Infiniti commercials that didn't show the car, and Nissan's "Dogs Love Trucks" tagline. They don't have the Nissan account anymore.
After The Adventures of Pluto Nash , anything's a step up. Heck, I'd rather see him actually make "Chubby Rain".
Amen, brother!
And portability has also been Qt's most distinctive feature. Just pay attention to the fact that you can have portable or Free, but not both.
I can't emphasize that enough. It's Trolltech's bad attitude in a nutshell. Their motivation is revenge against Microsoft Corporation. It's developers and end users that take the damage, though.
Wal-Mart doesn't just censor sexual references. The cover of John Mellencamp's "Mr. Happy Go Lucky" album was altered to remove an angel and a devil, because it was "insensitive to their non-Judeo-Christian customers". Sheryl Crow's self-titled album was flat-out banned from Wal-Mart because of one line of one song that cited an incident where a 13-year-old bought a gun at a Wal-Mart. (Source: PBS.com)
Here's the rub. Wal-Mart does not disclose what has been altered. "Mr. Happy Go Lucky" and "Sheryl Crow" are well known because Mellencamp and Crow raised a colossal stink about having to alter their work to meet the moral standards of one corporation. But how many other CDs sitting in American homes have been altered without the owner of the disc even knowing that the original version exists?
Of course. They are, by far, the largest retailer in the United States. That gives them the power to justify anything they choose. Outside the entertainment department and magazine rack, it's all just goods for sale. Do you honestly think every single solitary case of motor oil Wal-Mart sells is a mandate for their campaign of moral enforcement? Many don't know, most don't care.
In the end, it still comes down to one thing: A massive corporation, with tremendous power in the marketplace, abusing that power to the benefit of its bottom line, and the detriment of "consumers". It's no more right for Wal-Mart to impose its morality on musicians than it is for Microsoft to force NGSCB onto your computer. Sure, as individuals, we have Linux and our favorite indie record stores, but at the macro level, Microsoft and Wal-Mart still win.
Ah, but that's the beauty of HomePod: Open firmware! I'm sure it won't be long before you can download a patch that supports your Codec of Choice. So don't let that dollar get too far away.
After this long, they should just give 3D Realms the Vladimir And Estragon Lifetime Achievement Award, and drop DNF from the ballot.
Are you this condescending when you tell them that? No wonder they're angry. Open Source is a Good Thing, and needs to be promoted whenever possible. But if you can't promote what's good about Linux without denigrating Windows users, you're no longer an evangelist; you're just an asshole.