Gloolabs Readies A Java-Based WiFi Audio Device

An anonymous reader writes "A new Java powered home entertainment audio device design promises to simplify sharing computer music files among computers and stereos in connected homes. Gloolabs's Gloo is Java middleware that puts an iPod-like interface on music files it "discovers" around the network. Gloo, which will be licensed to multiple device makers, is available now on one device that runs embedded Linux, and Gloolabs is currently bootstrapping a Gloo developer community. Gloolabs is currently taking orders for the $250 MacSense HomePod, the first Gloo-based device, which will ship in January 2004. A limited quantity of the $350 Developer Edition is available now."

Comments

Open-ish source....

[tcopeland]

...or something like that. From the GLOO site:

Open firmware philosophy - The Java source will be made available to the GLOO
developer community. Developers will be able to enhance any of the software
components including the firmware running on the hardware.

So, buy the Developer's Edition and you get the source code. Cool.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Illuminati Member]

Lets not forget that Java, itself, isn't open source. Its fun to tout something open, but you have to PAY for the source (which, no doubt, you can't "share") and we all know that java, and the JVM, are closed proprietary software that Sun is clingy on for dear life.

Whats worse is running multimedia on Java. My fourth wife was asked to be a part of this project, but declined mostly due to it containing java (the other part was it never gave us time together, which we needed, because we were trying to have a baby and needed 'baby making time'. She doesn't like doing it in the light, so we could only do it at night, and the job took a lot of night hours away that could be better spent on working on getting pregnant. And, funny as it may sound, she left me before I could knock her up, so maybe she should have taken the job). Multimedia programs should involve assembly or C. Programs that won't take the speed nor memory away from the multimedia that needs it.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

kinda hard to develop without the source code.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Phil John]

Try doing your homework:

The Java SDK source is indeed available and no, you don't have to pay for it! How else do you think the FreeBSD port of Java works? You can get it from http://wwws.sun.com/software/communitysource/j2se/ java2/download.html

As for the speed of Java, why do people still push around this piece of FUD? With dynamic optimisations Java is starting to rival the Speed of compiled code, sometimes even beating it. No, I don't have any benchmarks to hand, since benchmarks are the Root of all Evil(tm)

True, you cannot share the source code to the Java Platform. Welcome to the Real World(tm), not everything is free, some companies *gasp* actually want to keep some things proprietary, be thankful we have the source to play with/port to other systems at all.

I see you have been modded as a troll since I started writing this, I'm still going to post it, just so others who think along the same lines as you can get the facts.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no benchmarks to prove otherwise and my personal experience dictates otherwise. IMHO Java still sucks for performance.

Re:Open-ish source....

[evilviper]

With dynamic optimisations Java is starting to rival the Speed of compiled code, sometimes even beating it.

Now this is FUD...

Yippie, *some* expertly written Java *can* come close to being as fast as *poorly* coded programs, written in compiled languages. Big whoop.

The proof is in the pudding, as they say... For all the wonderful things you can say about java, I can download hundreds of java programs, and watch as they craw... Just as benchmarks are the root of all evil, so too are unrealistic, out of context examples that try to justify the real-world use of Java...

And don't even start with that "sandbox" bull, 'cause it just ain't true.

Re:Open-ish source....

[freeweed]

I see you have been modded as a troll since I started writing this

Man, and I thought my refreshing the main page every 15 minutes hoping for a new story was bad.

We now have a poster who refreshes the posts he's replying to, while he's replying to them, just to get that second-to-second info as to their moderation status :)

You sir, are my new Slashdot idol!

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

it's easier to write bad Java successfully than bad C. that's it.

Re:Open-ish source....

[cygnus]

Whats worse is running multimedia on Java. My fourth wife was asked to be a part of this project, but declined mostly due to it containing java (the other part was it never gave us time together, which we needed, because we were trying to have a baby and needed 'baby making time'. She doesn't like doing it in the light, so we could only do it at night, and the job took a lot of night hours away that could be better spent on working on getting pregnant. And, funny as it may sound, she left me before I could knock her up, so maybe she should have taken the job). Multimedia programs should involve assembly or C. Programs that won't take the speed nor memory away from the multimedia that needs it.

somoeone *had* to quote that for posterity... how does bonking your (fourth?? are they leavin ya, or are you in Nevada?) wife have to do with this??/p?

Re:Open-ish source....

[dasmegabyte]

Java generally BEATS code written in a non garbage collected language when there is enough memory on the machine and many objects are quickly created and dropped. For example, i wrote a mail merge program in Java. For the average size merge we ran (2000-3000 addresses), it was usually 40-50% faster than C++, because the "garbage" of unused, unreferenced variables could be left behind when an address record would go out of scope. This would fill up memory, but since we had enough memory to fit the garbage of 2000 records while we did the important i/o work, it wasn't an issue.

And newer (since 2001) versions of the Java VM further improved this code, as garbage collection is handled on a separate thread. So while in C++ you're spending 200 cycles doing nothing, waiting for the disc to be accessed, then deleting the record, I can spend those 200 cycles cleaning the heap.

C# under .NET is approaching this level of speed as well. In another 10 years, people are going to talk about the old days when code was written for just one type of operating system, and one type of hardware, and when it was written without automatic garbage collection or memory management, or array bounds checking (the thing that PREVENTS buffer overflows?) And they're going to laugh at all the people clinging to C like the cavemen they are.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Phil John]

Hehe, thanks and all, but I should come clean, I actually just used the preview button. :o)

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yippie, *some* expertly written Java *can* come close to being as fast as *poorly* coded programs, written in compiled languages. Big whoop.

Amen.

Re:Open-ish source....

[HisMother]

>Yippie, *some* expertly written Java *can* come close to being as fast as *poorly* coded programs, written in compiled languages. Big whoop. Bzzt, sorry. Looking at one computationally-intensive domain I'm familiar with (rule engines,) those vendors (like ILOG) that offer both a Java and a C rule engine tend to have performance within a factor of two for the two implementations. Many Java rule engines absolutely kick the asses of rule engines written in C. Why do people like yourself feel threatened by the reality of Java's good performance?

Re:Open-ish source....

[dasmegabyte]

I'm insulted. The C++ program was not poorly coded. It just takes so long to write, test and debug the type of management needed to do what Java does naturally that anybody regardless of skill is better off just using Java.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Phil John]

http://members.lycos.co.uk/wjgoh/JavavsC.html

Re:Open-ish source....

[evilviper]

Why do people like yourself feel threatened by the reality of Java's good performance?

Good question... The answer is that I don't... Not at all. I have no vested interest at all in the issue.

The fact is, my real-world experience has always, always been the same... Every java app I've ever seen, drags ass, eats CPU power and memory like candy, etc.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking at one computationally-intensive domain I'm familiar with (rule engines,) those vendors (like ILOG) that offer both a Java and a C rule engine tend to have performance within a factor of two for the two implementations.

Woo hoo! So Java is only twice as slow! That's reeeeeeal impressive there buttwad. Java is fast like Macs are cheap (ie, only in the fanboy's minds...)

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a reeeeeeeal professional page you linked to there. Lots of credibility. Do you have any benchmarks that weren't performed by 14 year olds? Oh wait - people over 14 don't bother with Java, so it'd be hard to find someone to write benchmarks for it... Oh well.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

Explain to me again why I should bother working with a language that doesn't even have pointers?

Thanks.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Phil John]

Oh look, these people are patently under 14</sarcasm>

That in under a minutes googling. Now crawl back under a rock troll.

And for people who STILL believe that Java is slow, download eclipse (the url is above, for those of you can't google for it, or even guess it) and have a play...it's written in Java and *GASP* is not only a)amazingly useful, but b)damn snappy, seriously, those people who said Java would never work on the desktop because its too slow, they can start eating their hats.

Plus, I just did a job search for c++ vs. Java on a uk job site and guess what, the number of results returned was nearly identical, so by the look of things, lots of people and companies use Java. IMHO, for enterprise n-tiered applications its the shiznitz.

The reason that Java can be faster is because you can do some really nifty optimisations during runtime with the latest JIT compilers that are impossible (or at least monumentally difficult) to do with compile c/c++ code.

In closing: Here is another benchmark...maybe because he has a domain name you'll trust him more?

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

You drooling java fanboys are all alike. Doing a google search on "java" doesn't prove anything about Java's performance (seriously- those werent even benchmarks you linked to). Neither does linking to a page titled "C++ Sucks".

Here is some data right back at you:
http://www.jelovic.com/articles/why_java_is_slow.h tm
http://dir.salon.com/tech/col/garf/2001/01/08/bad_ java/index.html
http://www.advogato.org/article/624.html
http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~cs154/PerfComp/

Chew on dat, butt monkey.

Re:Open-ish source....

[JamieF]

>Explain to me again why I should bother working with a language that doesn't even have pointers?

Because it will take less time to write correct programs without them.

I suppose you'd NEVER EVER think about using Perl or JavaScript or Lisp any number of other high level languages that let you live in reference land because you absolutely positively can't write a single program for any purpose under any circumstances without needing pointers.

Right?

Also, bear in mind that if your program is correct but slow, you can optimize it. If it doesn't work, who cares how fast it is?

Different languages are good for solving different problems. Ruling out the possibility of a problem set that you're not familiar with just shows your arrogance.

Re:Open-ish source....

[JamieF]

You can download hundreds of Java programs? Oh my god! Java has finally conquered the desktop!!

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

Right?

Actually, yeah, that's right. By definition a language must support pointers in order to be turing complete. I don't bother with languages that aren't turing complete (like HTML). They just don't interest me, sorry.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

Me Ogg. Me crush java using future man.

Ok, so I use java as well as C. I still don't completly buy that java is as fast or faster than C, but I will agree that it is approaching and in most cases the speed difference isn't great enough to warrent the use of C over java when factoring in the speed of development in java.

Re:Open-ish source....

[Anonymous Coward]

Mensa Member, Christian rock junkie, and a devout Republican.

Haha you sick fuck, no wonder your 4th wife left you.

useful

[petwalrus]

Now I can play my neighbours mp3 collection in the convenience of my living room!

I ordered mine in JANUARY

[Anonymous Coward]

Of 2003. They said it would ship in March.

Still waiting.

"Pod"? "Pod"??

[heironymouscoward]

This is the buzzword for 2004? We are living in an alien spaceship?

A HomePod sounds distinctly like a scene from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".

MACSense homePOD

[Sp4rtikuz]

They're going to have Apple's legal team up their ownPods

Re:MACSense homePOD

[khalua]

HA

Re:First trollse.cx

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not that graphic honest.

Gloo?

[endeitzslash]

For a second there I thought Larry W. had renamed "Perl".

Re:Gloo?

[dasmegabyte]

Gloo is used when Perl breaks.

Neat idea, but

[ActionPlant]

I'm already thinking of security compromises. What's to stop an outside source from eventually being able to search this in an attempt to determine if you have illegal music? Also, error logs could pose a problem. I'm assuming they have that worked out, but using java to do this worries me. With an intelligent search, the ability to spider your own network looking for files...should it grab the *ahem* "wrong" file and surprise you with it when your parents are visiting...uh oh.

Damon,

Re:Neat idea, but

[psychogentoo]

Considering that 71% of wireless networks didn't have any WEP encryption when warflying over LA and Orange County, the "outside source" already ownz your files.

Re:Neat idea, but

[Ranazar]

Speaking of security, it's odd that their site mentions Wi-fi for the pod, but doesn't mention WEP support. I can't imagine a single /. user (hopefully) who doesn't have 128-bit WEP, not to mention MAC filtering, and maybe more. If the HomePod doesn't support at least WEP, there's no way I'm opening up my network to the world just so that I can have some music to go with my cereal.

With decent security, it might be fun to hook the HomePod to my cellphone, connect to my home w/s over the Internet, and play my music anywhere in the city.

Very decent security.

Re:Neat idea, but

[Anonymous Coward]

All of those security measures you mentioned are easily broken.

Re:Neat idea, but

[ActionPlant]

I like the phone idea. Now we need to see a big advance in securityto ship with it.

Re:Neat idea, but

[Crazy Man on Fire]

I can't imagine a single /. user (hopefully) who doesn't have 128-bit WEP

WEP (128-bit or othewise) really isn't very secure. If you're that freaked out about it, you should be using something else...
Of course, 128-bit WEP is better than nothing, but it really isn't any better than any other strength WEP.

From this Ars Technica article:

Using today's computing horsepower, this feature (128-bit WEP) increases the time it takes to brute force crack a WEP key from a few days to approximately 20 weeks. While it seems like a good idea, there are several key areas where this security initiative falls short of the definitive security solution. On top of the management problems using static WEP keys there are two serious issues that plague 128 bit WEP. First of all, the attacks on WEP have nothing whatsoever to do with the key length itself. Whether you are using a 64 bit or 128 bit WEP you still have the exact same 24 bit IV which is the source of the weaknesses. This increases security absolutely zero for today's wireless implementations because no one bothers to brute force a WEP key when it is so easy to use one of the other attacks.

Re:Neat idea, but

[leifm]

I have 104-bit WEP enabled on my AP, but I don't do anything beyond that. From what I've read MAC filtering is really easy to get around, so I don't bother with that, and VPN would be overkill. There's nothing interesting or important on my network anyway, so I'm not so worried about it. Besides there's at least one other WEPless AP at my apartment complex, so why would anyone bother trying to crack mine.

Re:Neat idea, but

[Christopher Bibbs]

Why? Because you're there. Seriously, saying there isn't anything interesting on your network just shows that you don't know what makes an interesting target. I'm not proud to admit that I've gotten into other people's system just to read their e-mail. If you don't think that's a big deal, just send me your e-mail for the last 7 months so I can forward key bits to your friends and family. Don't forget all those order confirmations from online stores. That's pure gold!

Re:Neat idea, but

[leifm]

With WiFi there everything is so easily sidestepped that I don't see the point of bothering with it. WEP is like locking a door, not fool proof but it's something, so I do that. MAC filtering, turning SSID off, I don't see the point. Sure it's possible someone will read my e-mail, but it's not real likely, and online ordering and banking is all SSL'd .

Re:Neat idea, but

[radish]

Why does using Java worry you? The security concerns are valid, as are the random file selections :) But it's not like Java makes your wifi inherently less secure. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I believe Java to be inherently more secure (in some ways) than other languages which allow such nastiness as buffer overflows.

Re:Neat idea, but

[WuphonsReach]

Because your there and because it's an easy way for someone to launder their internet usage (and guess who's door the MIBs are gonna come knocking on?). Breaking into an AP is typically not about the data on your network, but being able to crack other network's without getting caught.

Sure, MAC filtering isn't the end-all of security, but if it makes your AP harder to crack then the one next door... well, guess which system the cracker is going to go after first? (A lot of security practices are simply meant to make your systems a less appealing target.)

Re:Neat idea, but

[jovlinger]

personally, I use security through crap range. I'm lucky if I get 30ft range, so if anyone is able to eavesdrop, more power to 'em.

Re:Neat idea, but

[leifm]

The one next door is wide open, maybe if they WEP I'll filter, but for the time being I think WEP is enough.

Re:Neat idea, but

[Christopher Bibbs]

Spoken like a true target of choice. Bet you trust that little lock in the corner of your browser as enough proof that the SSL is working.

Finally...

[snapman]

...an appliance with the Java logo on it (at least I hope). As a Java programmer, I have been dying for a toaster or microwave oven with the Java logo on it. Yahoo!!

Now how long will it take for someone to hack this thing and get it sharing music over the Internet using the Gloo network protocol without all that PC hardware getting in the way?

umm .. they're giving you the source..

[junkymailbox]

"Gloolabs will launch a developer community and standalone SDK the first week of January, according to Saal. The SDK will include a hardware emulator, enabling developers to hack Gloo on their desktops, regardless of whether they have purchased any hardware. "

Impossible equation

[JamesP]

Java + Wi-FI + Audio

I reckon the universe is going to explode....

Re:Impossible equation

[ThePretender]

Nah just file it under "difficult bottleneck identification" hehe.. Just teasing, it sounds great but I wouldn't be an early adopter.

is there anything that cool about this device?

[Uthiroid]

seems the latest slimp3 device does this stuff. somebody please clarify why this is better/different than the current market offerings?

Re:is there anything that cool about this device?

[Anonymous Coward]

For one thing, Slim Devices' products exist and have been shipping for a few years.

Gloo's products are, and have been "just around the corner" for almost as long.

At Macworld in January '03, they were telling everyone it would ship in MARCH. Eleven months later and they're saying JUST ONE MORE MONTH! I'll believe it when I see it.

Re:is there anything that cool about this device?

[woverly]

Price. Built in FM radio. Ability to modify firmware. I was about to buy the slim device, but now I'll wait. Perhaps there will be a price war.

Re:is there anything that cool about this device?

[Anonymous Coward]

perhaps there will be a price holocaust as well

Re:is there anything that cool about this device?

[jespring]

Last time I checked, the Slim device did not play AAC files (only MP3). Of course, since the HomePod will not play DRM'd AAC files (Apple Music Store, anyone), this doesn't make much difference.

Personally, after I get my G5 (so close, so close!) I plan to simply run an optical audio cable from the Mac to my receiver. Of course, my computer and stereo are in the same room, so this is not an option for everyone.

Re:is there anything that cool about this device?

[blackketter]

Squeezebox plays MP3 and uncompressed AIFF and WAV natively and can play back Ogg Vorbis, Shorten, FLAC, QuickTime movies through server side conversion.

Also, it's shipping now, the HomePod has been about to ship since January of this year.

Re:is there anything that cool about this device?

[los furtive]

Well for one, its hackable in a language that is becoming the defacto standard for must introductory comp sci courses, and it has WiFi built in. That and the fact that I've been looking for a funky new alarm clock.

nice idea

[f13nd]

cute...

i'll stick to using an old pc wired to the stereo to do the job though - i got THAT for free

Java usage

[Qwell]

I understand that Java is supposed to be able to be used anywhere, anytime, etc, but is this really something another language couldn't have done much better? Don't get me wrong, Java is a great language, for things like webpages, and stuff that needs to run on multiple OSs, but, come on, a mock MP3 player/server?

Re:Java usage

[dasmegabyte]

The boys of Freenet have written a very efficient system in Pure Java (that is, no native code allowed...except the tray icon). I've written very efficient code in Pure Java. In fact, I wrote a merge mailer in Java that was faster than the same code in C++ (reason? java garbage collection is more efficient).

The days of Java being a second fiddle language ended some time in 2001. I can't believe that people are still clinging to their native code for any reason other than access to a specific toolkit.

Re:Java usage

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, large chunks of the J2SE API *are* written in native code. The NIO framework for instance. Gives you memory mapped files and all sorts of goodness, implemented (transparently to the programmer) in native code.

Ouch

[djupedal]

"*While standard ACC files are supported, Apple Music Store Downloads are not due to DRM restrictions."

A bit of creative capture should solve this, I believe. However, it bodes not well for other formats.

Re:Ouch

[laird]

Right, there are two basic approaches (that I can think of) to playing DRM'd music on a device like this.

1) Implement the DRM on the device, and handle the key management, etc., so that the device has the same rights to decrypt and play the DRM's content.

2) Use the DRM on the desktop computer, and stream the result to the device.

I think that (2) is the better approach, because it means that you don't need to do the work of porting a zillion proprietary DRM systems to your box, but can leave that on the desktop where's it's already present (or you wouldn't have the DRM'd content). The easiest way to do it would be to have the 'streaming' software tell the desktop music software to play whatever you wanted, capture the metadata and output stream, and send it to the device. It'd require a little integration to be able to remote control WMP, iTunes, etc., and capture their audio output stream, but that's got to be less work than licensing and porting their proprietary code to Linux.

IMO, of course.

uhhh..

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Wouldn't you prefer a Coffee machine with a java logo on it?

Re:uhhh..

[trentblase]

When I worked at Sun, all of the coffe cups said "Java". That's the kind of creativity that puts you at the forefront of technology... right?

Lack of creativity

[Clsid]

Although I like the idea from a technical side and they open source approach they are adopting, I wonder if it is really that hard to make a new device that's not a blatant copy of the iPod design.

Re:Lack of creativity

[dasmegabyte]

I've used some of the devices that don't copy the iPod scroller -- such as the Napster player and Dell's music player, the Archos, the Zen -- and they're all much harder to use. Most of them use a similar idea besides...scroll arrows that act exactly like the pod's wheel does, only without the precision. As for the buttons in a four corner position, technically this isn't iPod design. The older iPods had four buttons but they were arranged in a sort of a prong-of-an-iron-cross fashion around the wheel, hugged tight to it, but iPods with this control signature haven't bee made since May of this year. The current signature is four buttons (Left, Menu, Play/pause, Right) arranged like standard stereo controls.

Oh, and iPod buttons are heat sensitive capacitors, not momentary switches. Meaning that they don't have any tactile at all...you press them, and have no idea you pressed them. There's no mechanical parts to break (or have moisture seep through when you drop it in a snow bank like a retard).

So in short: they didn't copy the ipod design. It might be better if they had, but they didn't. They approximated it, and reused one of the best features, the dial, which Apple hardly invented.

I do have a problem with the center mounted button -- it is much easier to have the action button off to the side, where you could use your thumb to press it while scrolling with your fingers. This design works well on the ipod, where you do everything with the thumb of one hand. But you won't be grasping this device...you'll be reaching forward to it.

ACC files are NOT standard!

[Anonymous Coward]

"While standard ACC files are supported, Apple Music Store Downloads are not due to DRM restrictions"

ACC files are not standard: few music devices play them, and few programs with with them compared to MP3 files, which are much more of a standard.

Re:ACC files are NOT standard!

[dasmegabyte]

AAC may be new (which is what you're talking about) but it is certainly standardized.

"Standard" in that phrase refers to files that meet the Mpeg-2/4 standard for AAC audio in an LC profile, which Apple Music Store Downloads don't (they encrypt the data, which decrypts to standard AAC during playback if a license file is available). They are quite "standardized," which means a standard has been published describing how to write a decoder for each of the 9 profiles, and most PC uses of AAC use the Low Complexity profile. They are most certainly as much a "standard" as MP3. As for programs and devices not playing them...that'll clear up quickly. At present, there are a dozen media player options for Mac, Windows and Linux, and since Apple's built AAC support into iTunes and the iPod, more portables will be jumping on board soon enough.

AAC files (why do people have trouble with those letters? It's double As, then a C, stands for Advanced Audio Coding, doesn't look like the start of te word ACCessory) are the new MP3 in just about every way except one: they don't have MP3's expensive licensing costs.

That's even worse than Mr. Goatse!

[October_30th]

Do not click on that link!

Oh man, I want one.

[Hanna's Goblin Toys]

I live in a dense apartment block, and while I only own a PDA currently, it has 802.11, and I've used it to pick up over 17 (17!!) open access points within range of my apartment. Most of these people have extensive mp3 collections which look highly illegal (though since I don't own a computer and I've never talked to them, I don't know if they have the new Strokes album through iTunes or what...). One guy has like the complete works of Jimmi Hendrix; it's awesome.

Anyway. I could buy one of these things, hook it up to my stereo, and basically use all of my neighbor's music for free. This would be great for college campuses too!!!

And since it's wireless the RIAA can't do shit to stop me. Bwuahahaah! I don't know how to run Linux but it looks like with this I won't have to, and I can get all the free music I want. Awesome.

Re:Oh man, I want one.

[Morgahastu]

It doesn't just magicly pick up mp3s on computers, you have to install a GLOO server on the computers that will do the sharing.

Re:Oh man, I want one.

[freeweed]

Most of these people have extensive mp3 collections which look highly illegal...I've never talked to them

Devil's advocate, but please don't take the RIAA's route in assuming that mp3 == illegal. I personally have over 400 albums worth of mp3s on my computer, all 100% legally obtained by ripping my CD collection many moons ago.

Unfortunately for anyone who lives close enough, they're not shared over my wireless connection. Well, unless you can get onto non-shared drives on a computer that denies connection attempts :)

Re:Wonder if they charge...

[ThaJoystikPimp]

Offtopic? How the hell is this off-topic? It's very pertinent...it points out the fact that you relate anything to Apple and people swarm to it without thinking of the future implications...

Other Internet Radio/MP3 clients?

[costas]

Are there any other such devices that pick up internet radio (Shoutcast-only is fine) besides MP3 playing? I don't think the Slimp3 does radio, right?

Re:Other Internet Radio/MP3 clients?

[rizzn]

Actually, there's no public information about it right now, but there's a mobile device that is supposed to function on both WiFi and GSM that either will pull shoutcast streams or other MP3/Streaming audio streams down for either car or home stereos being worked on by a company called Onsite Technology. Their project list (such as it is) can be found here. /rizzn

Re:Other Internet Radio/MP3 clients?

[kennylives]

Actually, the Slimp3 does do shoutcast/icecast streams. Works very well...

Hey idea guys...

[rubenmiranda]

Want to come up with a real moneymaker? Make a Wi-Fi shower stereo. To me that's really where the power lies in making music asccessible...making it accessible where you sing like a dying cat!

Re:Hey idea guys...

[los furtive]

MacSense mentions this feature right here. However, I think they are talking about Homepod variants they'd like to release in the future.

Ogg?

[Damon C. Richardson]

No Ogg? forget it! ( here's my dollar walking away ).

Re:Ogg?

[Keith Russell]

No Ogg? forget it! ( here's my dollar walking away ).

Ah, but that's the beauty of HomePod: Open firmware! I'm sure it won't be long before you can download a patch that supports your Codec of Choice. So don't let that dollar get too far away.

Re:Ogg?

[dasmegabyte]

Nope. The only open format supported by this thing is AAC, which is a part of the Mpeg-4 standard and has about a dozen types of compression, many of which are comparable to OGG in size/quality, and some of which easily beat it for specific uses.

The whole POINT to Ogg was that it was going to be high quality for the audiophiles, have small file sizes for the network users, and have none of the licensing issues of MP3, WMA, etc. Well, AAC fulfills all of those points.

Ogg is good and all, but it's a format with NO FUTURE. Not while AAC is out there, doing the same thing, with the same freedom, and supported by the industry that invented it in the first place.

Re:Ogg?

[Anonymous Coward]

AAC has several patents and needs to be licensed. Both MP3 and AAC are open formats (in that the format is documented), but they're not free. One of the major roles of MPEG (the organization) is to act as a patent pool for licensing their codecs.

Re:Ogg?

[jovlinger]

So I take it mpeg layer 2 can be transcoded to mpeg-4 easily?

Re:Ogg?

[jovlinger]

grumble. Meant layer 3, of course.

Re:Ogg?

[Gloolabs]

I'm with GlooLabs. As you can imagine we've had a busy day from this slashdot coverage. We designed GLOO (that's the middleware running on the HomePod) to be very open. We have an architecture that allows different CODECS to be pluged in. We are offering the source and support to developers to help with this process. I think we will have an 'ogg' CODEC running on the homepod very quickly once enough units are in developer hands. We use standard a JNI interface to talk to CODECS and all the interface abstractions are accessible from Java. Check us out at www.gloolabs.com sign up for our newsletter buy a HomePod.

Re:Wonder if they charge...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, the moderators are on some serious dope today..

Re:"Pod"? "Pod"??

[el_gordo101]

I'm thinking more along the lines of Nigel trapped in the pod in "This Is Spinal Tap".

Oh I'm a troll too?

[Anonymous Coward]

For pointing out the utter Hitlerian attitude of some of you guys?

Wow, you operatte under the guise of "improving Slashdot" but you end up abusing power and just censor legitimate posts.

BTW, keep on modding me down and I will just post more. (I got several IPs)

yeah.

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Its shame they didn't name it Pilsner.

Actually, now that I think about it there is a logo on my Esspresso machine that looks an simular to the Java logo.

Who the hell modded ths down?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please explain to me why this post deserved censorship.

Wardriving for music

[Animats]

Imagine if your auto radio exchanged music files with other cars it passed.

I'll ask...

[IWorkForMorons]

You know what...I'll take the karma hit and ask why this was modded down. This is a viable point of view, and instead of modding it down why not respond to it. I don't know how good Java works on such limited processing power, but seeing as it has been around for a while now and is being improved then it could be ready to take on such things. But from my own personal experience with writing Java programs, it doesn't have the same speed as a natively written app. Could someone prove or disprove this thought, with Java as it stands now?

Re:I'll ask...

[Arthur Dent]

Since you asked...

The current version of Java code cannot be distinguished from natively compiled code. (At least on a 2 GHz P4.) You don't have to take my word for it. Download Eclipse and see for yourself. BTW Eclipse is written in Java.

As for Java working with limited processing power, you have to remember that there is a Java Micro Edition available for embedded devices.

Re:I'll ask...

[Morgahastu]

Sure if this was the only product to use GLOO it could of been done in another language like C or C++ but GLOO is meant to be easily ran on any Java enabled device. Imagine your Wi-Fi+Java PDA also accessing all your music on your network, or a Wi-Fi Smart phone, etc.

Obviously Java has no use if it's just a one time final use. But this is meant to be applied to lots of devices EASILY.

Imagine having a meeting with a company trying to sell them the idea of GLOO. Try telling them they'll have to spend months writing the code for it. Or you could just give them the code in java and have them implement it in an afternoon.

Re:"Pod"? "Pod"??

[WIAKywbfatw]

I have no podding idea what the pod you're podding about. Jesus H. Pod, make some podding sense every once in a pod, will ya?

(Here's podding that this pod gets podded down as pod. Dumb podders.)

It was not censored.

[Anonymous Coward]

First, the post is still there. Please check. Slashdot does not remove anything.

Second, it was not censored. This is Slashdot's own forum. Anything it does here is an exercise of its own free speech rights. It has a right to delete stuff (if it ever wanted to), just as a newspaper has a right to decide what to print in its letters page. This is never censorship.

Re:It was not censored.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you have to change your threshold to view it. Yes it was censored. Look up the definition of censorship, assclown.

I'll answer...

[WIAKywbfatw]

Of course Java apps don't have the same speed as natively written apps. You sacrifice something for cross-platform support and that something is speed.

I had thought that that much was bleeding obvious. Looks like I was wrong.

Re:I'll answer...

[IWorkForMorons]

So then you'll agree that a device like this could be done better with a different language? It's not like the code will be ported to anything else, unless that was their goal. Which I can see...create a low-powered wireless music player, write code in Java, sell device, release code for someone to port to some other low-powered device. Seems like a half decent goal, and looks like what they are doing with their "Developer's Edition" of the device.

On the other hand, I've read elsewhere in this story's posts that the JVM is getting to the point where speed is improving. It might be getting to the point that these types of projects are viable in Java. But who knows...that's why I asked if that could be backed up...

Re:I'll answer...

[dasmegabyte]

Well, you're missing the fucking point, man. By writing an app in Java, you write the app once. The effort involved in porting it, or at least the bulk of it, is done by whoever writes the virtual machine. They're writing the optimizers and JIT compilers that do what you'd have to do to make the app more "efficient." Nowadays, the Just In Time compiler on most VMs makes code as efficiently as a runtime compiler...and for an app that runs forever, it'll never get recompiled.

Could it be done "better" in a different language? No. Because you'd end up having to maintain a different version of the binary code for each end device. The ubiquity of Linux has improved this a bit, but it's still drudgery. Java is easier on programmers and testers with no real decrease in efficiency. And it's often got a smaller release footprint, too.

Re:I'll answer...

[mlk]

? It's not like the code will be ported to anything else, unless that was their goal
I though it was its find-MP3-on-clients bit which was java based, thus it could find them on you Apple, Linux or Windows box. Which is a good use of java.

JVM is getting to the point where speed is improving.
Some ARM chips (and Sparc, and maybe other lowend) chips support byte code (or a subset there-of), so it is the native format for the device.

The device might also support "plugin", o/c this is a guess, I've only glanced at the site, but the Motorola Java 2 Mobile Editon (phones & stuff) dev kit includes an MP3 player as one of its devices, it would be quite cool to play a game of Tetris or Packman on the LCD screen of you CD player. Pointless but pritty cool.

why do all these players need extra software?

[Anonymous Coward]

why do all these players need extra software? i don't want to run another service/daemon on my box just to listen to mp3's on my stereo.

why not make them samba/windows file share aware so they can just log onto a share and play whats there? that way i can use a snap server or linksys gigadrive instead of a full pc.

the only one that i know can do this is the turtle beach audiotron. why not others?

Re:why do all these players need extra software?

[seanadams.com]

why do all these players need extra software?

Because there are very severe penalties for doing it over just file sharing. It's why the audiotron takes 45 minutes or more to scan a large music collection when it crashes, can't handle collections of more than 10K songs, and doesn't have sophisticated search capabilities or a decent web interface. All these things need a more powerful device.

Slim Devices pioneered the "thin client" approach, which solves all of these problems and furthermore, makes it possible to develop plugins, web skins, additional codecs, and so on.

Also consider the multi-room environment - why replicate music database information across more than one device? Centralizing this work at the server has so many advantages that the cost of a double-click to install software is really negligible.

Re:why do all these players need extra software?

[jovlinger]

What sort of penalites? If it takes 45 mins to do a find over a couple (or tens of hundreds of couples) of gigs, there are issues with your programming style.

The device doesn't need to extract ID3 in the foreground, and if the share is writable, the device can easily cache the data on the file server.

However, the multi-room environment comment is well taken; I'm thinking of thin-clienting my two-node music network from the the current thick client implementation for exactly that reason.

Of course, a thick client can easily become a thin client by selecting a shoutcast stream.

Re:why do all these players need extra software?

[Refrag]

Tell that to iTunes. iTunes shares music using Rendezvous and it does it very quickly. I assume that ithe host sends the library XML file to the client and then lets the client use that to request streams of the files. At any rate, it does it quickly as the HomePod should be able to do.

Heck, there is already jRendezvous.

Re:why do all these players need extra software?

[seanadams.com]

Tell that to iTunes

Uhhh... precisely my point?

Having software (iTunes) running server-side relieves the client of having to figure out what's over there.

Humidity

[eyeball]

What I'l love to know is, if I keep this in my bathroom, will the humidity from the shower kill it? Methinks it will be ok since I have a $20 clock-radio/CD player in there now, and it's ok. I don't know if I want to risk the $250 though...

trademark problems?

[ketan]

They're probably going to have to change the name. Using "HomePod" to refer to a digital music player is too close to "iPod." I wouldn't be surprised if they get a friendly letter stating that in legalese.

Re:trademark problems?

[Anonymous Coward]

Friendly? I highly doubt anything coming out of Apple's lawyer farm is friendly.

College Campuses

[bleaked]

This would be great for college campuses too!!!

In my experience, most college students do not run an WAP from their dorm room. Typically, they just use the line going into their room.

Re:College Campuses

[drquizas]

My guess is that your experience is a couple years old. Since laptop (and wireless equipment) prices have been coming down over the course of the last year or two, it's incredibly convenient to drop the $ for a wireless router and use that for your laptop's network access.

Coming in 2004...

[BigJimSlade]

A brand new urinal design for the new millenium...

The PeePod(tm).

Re:Coming in 2004...

[heironymouscoward]

Ah, the PeePod I almost peed myself laughing.

Let's have fun and rename a few things...

Cubicle -> The WorkPod!
Hotel room (by the hour) -> The JoyPod
Sauna -> The HotPod
Hammam -> The SteamPod
Car -> The DogPod
Contact lense holder-> The EyePod
Church -> The GodPod
Red sports car -> The JockPod
Space Shuttle -> The BarfPod

Ah, the joys of Podding.

Re:Coming in 2004...

[Tetsujin28]

POD PARENT UP!

Uber-Nerds?

[agent dero]

"Gloolabs is currently bootstrapping a Gloo developer community."

Wow, interesting use of nerd-lingo, but since when does boot-strap mean 'organize?'

Re:Uber-Nerds?

[beattie]

How about "starting up" as a synonym for "bootstrap". Makes more sense that way

PLEASE, can someone recommend me an mp3 player?

[skintigh2]

Basically, I want an iPod with a remote and an ethernet port.

I don't want to stream from a 300W server, I want a little device I can turn on when I need it, and that I can operate with a remote and hook up to a home network to push more files into its storage.

Anyone know of something like this, other than that $1500 Rio unit?

Thanks in advance.

Java GUI != Java Based

[Anonymous Coward]

GUI might as well we written in nCurses. C'mon folks!!!

It's A Slimp3 "Squeezebox" Clone

[cmholm]

The Slimp3 Squeezebox is functionally identical, except for the lack of an FM tuner and built-in amp/speakers. Since the Squeezebox is intended to be a component of a home stereo system, and such a tiny amp/speaker system is going to sound like shit, I don't think this is a problem for the Squeezebox.

The Slimp3 server is Perl- rather than Java-based, and has a couple of years of development behind it, as well as a community of 3rd party add-ons and hacks.

On an ergonomic note, when plugged into a stereo system, the Squeezebox' ports face backwards, making easy to hide the wires. The HomePod's ports face sideways, so that the cables are going to tend to hang out for all to see.

I'm hoping the Slimp3 guys have enough margin built into their pricing that they can afford to meet the delta if their sales start to plumet. I don't really buy into some Slashdot poster claiming they'll wait until the HomePod comes out on the basis of $50. Too much like all of the people waiting for OS X to run on their eMachine box from Walmart. Look at it this way: pay $50 more for a mature product, or "save" $50 to beta test a $250 toy.

Vaporware

[Anonymous Coward]

I ordered one of these at Macworld almost a year ago. Haven't received it. Luckily, they didn't bill my credit card, so I haven't had to contact my credit card company...

Ships in 1 to 2 weeks from when?

[Anonymous Coward]

I found this web site a couple of months ago. They were 1 to 2 weeks away from shipping then too. Of course, a friend ordered one last January and still hasn't received it.

Axiom

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses Java, therefore it sucks bigtime and everybody who disagrees is stupid.

Re:f157 pr057 for Sir Haxalot

[Anonymous Coward]

That was fucking priceless, grub. Is that an original work?

Re:Wonder if they charge...

[ThaJoystikPimp]

Power hungry moderators...pimply-faced mouthbreathers that got beat up one too many times in high school who now take their wrath out of the internet...some of the shit they pull is gayer than break dance fighting

Slimp3 "Squeezebox" cabling vs. homepod

[Anonymous Coward]

Look more closely at the homepod pix on the homepod site.
(http://shop.store.yahoo.com/gloolabs/homep od.html )

The cables do attach to the side of the homepod, but not to the side of the display of the unit - they attach to the side of the smaller 'bulge' in the back portion of the unit. It looks like they wouldn't necessarily be visible from the front.

You have to admit - from the looks of these pictures, it certainly looks 'cooler' than the slimp3.

"Bootstrap" doesn't mean "to organize"...

[anactofgod]

If my Jargon-to-English translator is working correctly, "bootstrap" in this context means "to get people to contribute valuable work with little to no effort or expense to the parent commercial company."

But I could be wrong about that.

---anactofgod---