B) The kernel wrapper is Open Source. You can modify it to run on whatever kernel you want. A bunch of people hacked it to make it run on FreeBSD,
Yeah, but only if you don't want 3D support, which doesn't work yet but should be "forthcoming" (and the last update was in December of 2001). Thankfully, the open source radeon drivers work very well under FreeBSD, and should hopefully soon be working just fine under NetBSD.
Hey moron... The post said that 3D support for Radeon cards is abysmal and non-existant for the 8500.. Both of these are completely untrue. Support is not abysmal for the first gen Radeons, and there is support for the 8500.
What idiot modded this idiot up for posting such a blatant lie?
and this crap you say about binary only, they ARE released in source, I have it right here. Ok sorry their openGL libraries I don't have the code to. But you can download the driver code off their website
For the last fucking time, nVidia does not release source code to their OpenGL libraries or GLX extension.
I believe he was referring to hardware-accelerated drivers (DRI/OpenGL). And -- XFree4.2 does not contain them.
Nor does XFree86 4.2 contain 3D drivers for nVidia cards.
There are, in fact, open source 3D drivers available for the Mach64 line of cards (under Utah-GLX, and a branch of the DRI). There are also open source 3D drivers for every newer ATI video card, from the Rage 128 to the Radeon 8500. In addition, there are binary only drivers (much like nVidia's, only more stable) for the "Built by ATI" Radeon 8500s.
Is there any such thing as 3D acceleration for Radeon cards in Linux?
Ummm... Yes. There are open source drivers for anything lower than the Radeon 8500... There are open source drivers in development for the Radeon 8500, as well as closed source drivers from ATI for the FireGL cards (which, BTW, work with the Radeon 8500, and are much more stable, for me, than any version of the nVidia linux drivers).
In addition, there are 3rd party commercial drivers for the Radeon cards, too.
Oh, and let's not forget that if you want 3D acceleration for a new nVidia card under FreeBSD (for example), you're screwed. I've had no problems getting the DRI working on my Radeon 7500 under FreeBSD (and will be trying with an 8500 tonight).
The definition of "emulate" says nothing about being hardware specific. You can emulate an OS on the same hardware platform that the OS was developed on.
imitate
1. To use or follow as a model.
2.
a. To copy the actions, appearance, mannerisms, or speech of; mimic: amused friends by imitating the teachers.
b. To copy or use the style of: brushwork that imitates Rembrandt.
3. To copy exactly; reproduce.
4. To appear like; resemble.
Huh.. Sure sounds like Wine is trying to imitate the Win32 API to me.
1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.
2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.
3. Computer Science. To imitate the function of (another system), as by modifications to hardware or software that allow the imitating system to accept the same data, execute the same programs, and achieve the same results as the imitated system.
Just because I claim not to be a 26 year old male doesn't mean that I'm not 26 year old male. Just because WINE claims not to be an emulator doesn't mean that it's not an emulator.
NVidia cannot release the source code due to parts which are not belong to them (they belong to SGI and other parties)...
SGI has said, on a number of occaisions, that they are not at all involved in keeping the nVidia driver closed source. They have also stated that they are in favor of open sourcing the driver.
FYI, the TNT2 is well supported under linux... Check out nVidia's homepage and follow the "drivers" links for linux. You can download drivers that are nearly 100% as functional (if not exactly 100% as functional) as their windows counterparts.
That kind of attitude certainly isn't going to get your OS on any desktops, and pretty soon you won't have any job.
Except that none of these developers are working on OpenBeOS as their job. They are working on it because they like it, and that probably won't change even if no one uses the it.
As a group, we decided to adopt restrictive licenses in order to prevent our creations from being used in a manner we did not approve of and we decided that we actually cared who adopted our operating systems, our programs, and we decided that we were going to compete against organizations like Microsoft.
Wrong. Not everyone made any of those decisions. Some people use completely free licenses (BSD), many OSS developers don't care who adopts the operating system, and quite a few never decided to comete against organizations like Microsoft.
Next time, speak for yourself, not every OSS developer.
Slashdot Mirror
B) The kernel wrapper is Open Source. You can modify it to run on whatever kernel you want. A bunch of people hacked it to make it run on FreeBSD,
Yeah, but only if you don't want 3D support, which doesn't work yet but should be "forthcoming" (and the last update was in December of 2001). Thankfully, the open source radeon drivers work very well under FreeBSD, and should hopefully soon be working just fine under NetBSD.
Dinivin
The 8500 does _not_ have 3D support in XFree86 4.2.
Neither to any nVidia cards. Having said that, ATI does provide binary linux drivers that work with the Radeon 8500.
Why not do both? (Release specs to XFree86 developers AND release binary drivers -- this would give the best of both worlds)
ATI has done this for the 8500. nVidia, on the other hand, refuses to.
Dinivin
Hey moron... The post said that 3D support for Radeon cards is abysmal and non-existant for the 8500.. Both of these are completely untrue. Support is not abysmal for the first gen Radeons, and there is support for the 8500.
Dinivin
What idiot modded this idiot up for posting such a blatant lie?
and this crap you say about binary only, they ARE released in source, I have it right here. Ok sorry their openGL libraries I don't have the code to. But you can download the driver code off their website
For the last fucking time, nVidia does not release source code to their OpenGL libraries or GLX extension.
Dinivin
I believe he was referring to hardware-accelerated drivers (DRI/OpenGL). And -- XFree4.2 does not contain them.
Nor does XFree86 4.2 contain 3D drivers for nVidia cards.
There are, in fact, open source 3D drivers available for the Mach64 line of cards (under Utah-GLX, and a branch of the DRI). There are also open source 3D drivers for every newer ATI video card, from the Rage 128 to the Radeon 8500. In addition, there are binary only drivers (much like nVidia's, only more stable) for the "Built by ATI" Radeon 8500s.
Dinivin
No 3D support at *all*.
You're the one full of crap.
From the DRI on BSD page:
However, in the good news, a couple of users have reported success with r200-0-1-branch of DRI CVS with Radeon 8500s on FreeBSD.
Maybe you should do a little research before posting blatant lies.
Dinivin
Is there any such thing as 3D acceleration for Radeon cards in Linux?
Ummm... Yes. There are open source drivers for anything lower than the Radeon 8500... There are open source drivers in development for the Radeon 8500, as well as closed source drivers from ATI for the FireGL cards (which, BTW, work with the Radeon 8500, and are much more stable, for me, than any version of the nVidia linux drivers).
In addition, there are 3rd party commercial drivers for the Radeon cards, too.
Oh, and let's not forget that if you want 3D acceleration for a new nVidia card under FreeBSD (for example), you're screwed. I've had no problems getting the DRI working on my Radeon 7500 under FreeBSD (and will be trying with an 8500 tonight).
Dinivin
Excuse me, but why would calling someone a "fag" be a deterrant?
Your friendly fag,
Dinivin
The definition of "emulate" says nothing about being hardware specific. You can emulate an OS on the same hardware platform that the OS was developed on.
Win9x->W2K, not an emulator. libc->glibc, not an emulator.
Of course not, because they're the same fucking implementations, just with new features. WINE is not the same implementation as Win32 on Windows.
Dinivin
imitate
1. To use or follow as a model.
2.
a. To copy the actions, appearance, mannerisms, or speech of; mimic: amused friends by imitating the teachers.
b. To copy or use the style of: brushwork that imitates Rembrandt.
3. To copy exactly; reproduce.
4. To appear like; resemble.
Huh.. Sure sounds like Wine is trying to imitate the Win32 API to me.
A question for the naive: Can Wine run on LInux for the Ma?
What does that have to do with anything?
Dinivin
No Wine is NOT an emulator.
Mind explaining to me how Wine doesn't meet the 3rd definition of emulate, listed above?
It certainly appears to "imitate the function of" Windows, doesn't it?
Hell, as an AC pointed out below, even one of the primary Wine developers (Alexandre Julliard) refers to Wine as an emulator, here.
Dinivin
Just because Wine doesn't emulate a processor doesn't mean it's not an emulator...
"To imitate the function of another system..."
WINE is imitating the functionality provided by the Win32 API.
Wine is an emulator...
emulate
1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.
2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.
3. Computer Science. To imitate the function of (another system), as by modifications to hardware or software that allow the imitating system to accept the same data, execute the same programs, and achieve the same results as the imitated system.
Just because I claim not to be a 26 year old male doesn't mean that I'm not 26 year old male. Just because WINE claims not to be an emulator doesn't mean that it's not an emulator.
Jebus... If you're going to quote The Simpsons, at least do it right:
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do.
Who leaves the Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do.
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do.
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do.
You can easily chainload the NetBSD drive/partition.
An entry from my GRUB menu:
title NetBSD - 1.5.2
root (hd3,0)
chainloader +1
Simply enough
NVidia cannot release the source code due to parts which are not belong to them (they belong to SGI and other parties)...
SGI has said, on a number of occaisions, that they are not at all involved in keeping the nVidia driver closed source. They have also stated that they are in favor of open sourcing the driver.
Dinivin
Uhhh... No offense, but you obviously don't know much about the ATI linux driver situation.
ATI has written linux drivers for the Radeon 8500 and FireGL line of video cards.
Dinivin
FYI, the TNT2 is well supported under linux... Check out nVidia's homepage and follow the "drivers" links for linux. You can download drivers that are nearly 100% as functional (if not exactly 100% as functional) as their windows counterparts.
Dinivin
That kind of attitude certainly isn't going to get your OS on any desktops, and pretty soon you won't have any job.
Except that none of these developers are working on OpenBeOS as their job. They are working on it because they like it, and that probably won't change even if no one uses the it.
Dinivin
As a group, we decided to adopt restrictive licenses in order to prevent our creations from being used in a manner we did not approve of and we decided that we actually cared who adopted our operating systems, our programs, and we decided that we were going to compete against organizations like Microsoft.
Wrong. Not everyone made any of those decisions. Some people use completely free licenses (BSD), many OSS developers don't care who adopts the operating system, and quite a few never decided to comete against organizations like Microsoft.
Next time, speak for yourself, not every OSS developer.
Dinivin
ATI's linux driver page
The drivers for the FireGL also work on the Radeon 8500, which has the same 2D and 3D core.
Dinivin
People really need to do a little research before posting here...
In fact, there are two sets of 3D drivers for the Radeon 8500 currently available:
1) Closed source DRI drivers available from ATI
2) Open source DRI drivers available from the DRI development team (very new, probably very unstable).
Dinivin
UntiL ATi makes their own *nix drivers, im stickin to Nvidia.
You mean like the linux drivers that ATI wrote for the Radeon 8500 and 8800? Guess you'll be switching to ATI now, right?
Dinivin