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Transgaming's WineX 2.1 - Supports WarCraft 3
friedmud writes "WineX 2.1 is out on the street, get it at transgaming.com. It boasts, among other things, full support for Warcraft III. Other games now included are: Grand Theft Auto 3, Civilization III, and Black and White. Check the press release for further info. And, if you haven't already, go here to get an account... It is definitely worth it." I've been rebooting my laptop to
WC3, so maybe I'll give this a shot. I bought a subscription originally
in part due to their misleading Sims compatibility claims, but this looks like
it finally is truly emulating top windows games.
I've been eagerly anticipating support for GTA3. It's what I'll go to once I finish Baldur's Gate 2 until Neverwinter Nights is released (which will probably be in 2004).
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
How about Outlook XP and M$'s Remote Desktop Client?
Then I could secretly run Licoris at the office an nobody'd would be the wiser!
(aaand it would keep everybody from mucking around with my workstation.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Soon, there will be as many games that you can play on Linux as there are games that you can play on Macintosh!
I had been mucking with the main wine tree after reading in the Wine Weeky News that people were getting WarCraft III working under wine, but I have only been able to install and start the menu screen, which comes up MINIMIZED. Damn!
But now WineX supports my 2 favourite games: Black & White and Warcraft III I can uninstall Windows 2k!
I already have MS Word & Excel installed into a no-windows wine installation which works very well.
Man, wine is starting to get really freaking good! I just wish the Wine developers and Codeweavers could get along & share code more freely with Transgaming, but they have some differing ideas about licensing. Oh well. I'm gonna save up and get that WineX. BABY!
Why is this game so popular? It really isn't any different that other RTS, other than its more 3D.
You all bitch and moan about lack of innovation in gaming, then go out and buy the exact opposite.
And, yeah, I'm prepared to fight back against anyone that wants to argue how 'innovative' WC3 is.
I care or I would be paying $15 a month...fool!
From Zero to Hero... Starbuck Zero
Well, considering I just spent an hour or so playing Black&White, yeah, I care.
Hmm. Time to up the student loan again for a new Linux laptop! Woo HOo!
Dad? It's me . . .
warcraft 3 has worked with winehq wine as far back as the warcraft 3 beta, see this post to the wine-devel mailing list.
Linux has less than a 2% desktop share. Unless Linux gamers are willing to pay $500 for a native game, it's a money losing opportunity.
The only companies who will release Linux games are those that really really rely on geek support (like Id)
But on the bright side, just about everyone has come around to the conclusion that releasing Linux servers for their games is a good idea.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
So buying games for windows (which you REALLY don't own) is okay?
5$ a month not 15$
...but I still can't get it to play any perverted japanese video games. Ah well, C'est la vie.
Anyone know if they've gotten Quickbooks pro to work under Wine? I'd switch over my entire office if I could get that to work...
A game doesn't have to be completely different from everything else out there to be better. The production levels of the game (music, voice overs, gameplay balance, plot, and cinematics) are incredible. I know, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored at work. :)
Nan
God is real unless declared integer.
TransGaming has done some wonderful things. Their technology is truly helping Linux to be useful in more situations by allowing Windows games to run.
It's really too bad that TransGaming is not a good citizen of the open source community. Their decision to keep their ActiveX libraries proprietary while happily making use of other people's work (the base Wine code) perfectly exhibits the "what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine" abuse that BSD-like licenses can allow. And TransGaming's decision to fork the Wine code when it went LGPL is another example of this company's lack of respect for the cooperation that makes open source projects work.
I'll support CodeWeavers but I won't support TransGaming. When you take from Wine, you give back to Wine, dammit. A balkanized Wine might provide short-term profit to TransGaming, but it delays that day in the future when all Windows software runs seamlessly on Linux.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
...is the ability to play the five hundred packages of card games and remakes of 80s arcade games that make up 99% of the Mac game publishers' product lines.
I guess since they're not stifling compatability with DMCA lawsuits this week, it's ok to spend $70 (CDN) on their software and fund their lawyers! Thanks anyways...I'll keep my WineX subscription, but I'll only buy games from developers that don't screw us.
do not read this line twice.
I don't think id relies on "geek support." I think some of the main people there feel strongly about supporting OSes other than Windows, and release Linux versions essentially as a charitable work.
Linux game servers are another story, though. Releasing a linux version of your server definitely widens your market (server market, that is). Makes sense, since Linux is far more popular in the server arena.
-Ed
I hear the MS guys are making a Linux emulator for Win32. It's called Beer 3.2. The reasoning is, Beer is more popular than Wine so it will appeal to a broader user base. Women tend to like Wine better but Men overwhelmingly prefered Beer in product testing. Beer 3.2 is still a beta, and will be released when it's content reaches version 5.0.
There are 01 kinds of cars in the world. The General Lee, and everything else.
I've been using the CVS version for a while now to run WCIII; it runs at 100% full speed, with nvidia cards you get even faster framerate than on windows. The release is definitely worth it - many fixes, several good games games working in addition to about 80 others that worked previously. You should certainly get a subscription - only $5/month, you get to vote on what they do next, and you get support from the developers.
OTOH, Transgaming and WineHQ have been trying to figure out ways so that TG can give kickbacks to WineHQ in terms of code.
Karma whorin' since 1999
Infact it's even better than that for some reasons.
1. Graphic cards are getting faster and faster and all games can be played in emulator with normal speed
2. You can have games separated from your system, just like a console
3. Just checked WineX game installer. It can completely separate every game to it's own drive. No bugging, just delete game folder and that's it.
All of this points cover most of the problems by playing games on windows. So that's a reason to support that
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
they need to fix Counter-Strike!!!! That's the sole reason I payed for WineX, and playing on non-secure servers sucks (everyone cheats)! Of course, they will probably fix it a week before Valve releases a new version that breaks it again.
> The only companies who will release Linux games are those that really really rely on geek support (like Id).
I think that you misattributed Id's actions with a need to "really, really rely" on geek support. That's total baloney. Id doesn't need a Linux geek any more than any of the other video game companies. Not only are their games incredibly popular in their own right, but do you know how MUCH Id makes licensing their engines?! Try to name all of the games that licensed the Quake I, II, and III engines. We'll be here for a while.
Here's a bit of info for you... all of Id's games since Quake have supported Unix/Linux because... That's what quake was DEVELOPED on! The original quake was developed under Unix using OpenGL. It was then ported to Windows. I'd imagine that they had similar processes for their subsequent games (Quake II, Quake III, Return to Castle Wolfenstein). So "supporting" a Linux "port" was a no-brainer.
Don't get me wrong. I love the fact that you can buy native Linux versions of their games, but to say that they "really really need you" is a delusional fantasy.
Anyone get this working with WineX or Wine? This is about the only game I wish I could get working. I know about flightgear, but after seeing FS 2002, flightgear just doesn't compare. How about any other FS's working on Linux?
Since WC3 is available for Mac, i suppose its engine uses OpenGL. So what about a native Linux port?
I wish Loki was still alive!
Has this been ported to Mac OS X?
Since their press release states "its technology allowed Windows-based x86 games to be simultaneously released onto multiple platforms including the Sony PlayStation 2, Apple Mac OS X, set-top boxes, PDAs and wireless devices", I wonder if there is a working port.
Actually WineX is a very good idea for supporting Linux. Even in the rare cases where linux is still on the desktop most people maintain a windows partition for gaming. Something like WoneX will allow them to move over to pure linux. This wil help spread linux, you CAN use all your M$ software still and you get all this all this great other linux stuff, you haev nothing to lose! Furthermore as more people start to use WineX and like products the game manufacturers will start to notice this market share and try to make sure their game doesn't do anything cookey (did I spell that right) that would make it unusable under WineX. As this happens linux becomes more popular and continues to grow in market share until finally companies find they can get an edge by offering native linux games instead of stuff running over a compatibility layer. Now you get you linux games, I very much believe Wine and WineX are one of the best weapons linux has to take the desktop.
I stole this Sig
I'm at a loss here. WarCraft III? After the bnetd business? Hmm. Blizzard must be like Sony: we only boycott them between product releases.
It's a bit sad. I guess this in some way shows how we will never win against corporations. The average person here seems to hold on to his principles until shown a new toy.
I have little faith in humanity; so it's not like I am disapointed, but I can't help but being mad at those who can't seem to stick to their own principles for more than a few minutes...
In my opinion, Scientology is a cult you should avoid.
Or rather, their advertizing payment finally came in. Seriously though, it was emulation that killed Loki. Why pay for a native linux game when you can have an official Microsoft Windows version of the game which runs on Windows and Linux? Linux is an emulation platform and nothing more.
I just wish the same level of effort went in to providing compatibility for Windows apps that are desperately needed on the Linux desktop -- like Quicken.
Games are important, but Linux is still seriously lacking in the finance department. Getting Quicken to work it would do more for long term usability of the OS.
...emulating top windows games...
#Wine Is Not an Emulator.
s/emulating/supporting
#If Wine gets good enough, we won't even have
#to call them windows games anymore.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
I want to know if they've included all the features of the win32 version. Does the game still occasionally lock and cause reboots? Does b.net randomly disconnect you during close ladder matches? Do the European players still have to play on USEast due to disconnects and lag? Are nightelves still overpowered? Is the dev team on the forum still no help at all? These are all crucial elements to enjoying War3, and I hope they carry over properly.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." -Voltaire
Counter-Strike still doesn't work. Winex 2.1 just came out and to my surprise... Hrm still no support for Valve's anti-cheat... It's been now 8 weeks since winex has been broken (not to mention voice comm still doesn't work) and from what I hear 1.6 is coming down the pipes too.
Actually in retro-spect it'd be cheaper to grab a Windows 98 OEM CD off of Ebay for $50 bucks and install it on a seperate partition. Windows 98 is no where near as stable as NT but it's just as buggy as running winex + CS. Plus you don't need to worry about VALVE's anti-cheat or low frame rates. Whenever Winex gamer trolls keep posting phoney FPS I chuckle. YOU AREN"T FUCKING RUNNING COUNTER STRIKE IN NATIVE MODE>>> IE WHATEVER THE FUCKING FPS YOU GET WITH WINEX + CS WILL BE HALF OF WHAT YOU GET IN WINDOWS>. You are using Windows API stupid... It saddens me when home linux kiddie users don't comprehend this.
WInex is a terrible Idea:
Read to find out more:
http://www.transgaming.com/postlist.php?forum=3
We pay $60 a year for this software, and most people here are only using it for CS. I know I am. Should I be nice to them just because the deal with Valve isn't sorted yet? Why the hell not? It leaves all the people trying to run CS under Linux fucked. And I'm guessing that's quite a lot of people.
I really don't think it's childish to expect TG's management to have got a deal sorted by now. Is this the second or third time VAC has broke? I really don't know, I went and installed Win2k after the first VAC problem.
So now I'm paying for software I don't use, and I have a Windows install I don't want. Great.
I'm not bitching at the programmers or their work, it's good work, it runs the game well and VAC has been fixed before.
But this situation is UNACCEPTABLE.
and probably -5, Inciteful, too... :(
When will Wine support Progress Quest? It is truly the best RPG ever made!
Running Windows apps is a cool stopgap, but in the long haul I'd like to see more native ports and fresh applications. I can never decide if Wine is a good idea and/or necessary.
Neverwinter Nights was released...
Bioware's NWN's Site...
So umm... do you mean support for it under WineX? I hope it will be supported too, but I think it will be before 2004.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
I know it's a bit off topic, as we're discussing games under WineX, but is it possible to get something like PowerDVD or WinDVD to run under WineX, and getting them to run properly (with DMA access to drives etc)?
...
:-)
I've been trying to get Ogle running under Mandrake, and I can play dvds from any region which is cool and all, but the sound often goes out of sync and stuff like that.
I've also been trying to get Miranda ICQ running under Wine, but that requires a new version, and I can't get that running, cause I'm a d0rk when it comes to linux
What I wouldn't give for a "Window-esque" installer-wizard, that just *works*
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
I saw a couple posts in this thread and have seen it in just about every other thread that deals with Wine gaming. "I get even better frame rates than in windows!"
Um, no you don't. On identical hardware windows is faster. I am not advocating Windows, I am pointing out that this kind of talk is counter productive. Games need to be written for linux directly in OpenGL. And we need to keep pounding on the video card companies to provide us with better drivers.
WineX will not work with SCSI drives and copy-protected CDs. Every new release has something about how SCSI support has improved, is fixed, etc, but it never seems to work. If you check their forums you'll see what I mean. Most every issue is marked "fixed", with the solution seemingly always being a symlink or some such. It's not fixed as of the last release.
Does anyone know if they got it fixed this time? I tried to check the release notes at http://downloads.transgaming.com/files/winex-2_1-r eleasenotes.txt, but got a 500 error (on a .txt file no less). If the SCSI issues are fixed, then I'm gladly subscribing again. If not, I'm saving my money and keeping my new dual-boot setup.
If you have SCSI drives, make sure you investigate this before giving them any money or you'll likely have paid for nothing. I don't think SCSI support is real high on their support list. It's been broken for almost a year, after all...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
I've been rebooting my laptop to WC3, so maybe I'll give this a shot. I bought a subscription originally in part due to their misleading Sims compatibility claims, but this looks like it finally is truly emulating top windows games.
Uh, no, it is not emulating any Windows games. It is providing a compatibility layer so that the Windows games can run under Linux.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Linux game servers are another story, though. Releasing a linux version of your server definitely widens your market (server market, that is). Makes sense, since Linux is far more popular in the server arena.
:-)
I think the idea of running a Q3A server on an
IBM mainframe turns a lot of people on
Issued on Wednesday April 17, 2002
Play Warcraft III on Linux with TransGaming's Release of WineX 2.1
Issued on Thursday August 1, 2002
TransGaming subscriptions cost $5 per month, with a minimum three months payment.
It's been just over three months since the last major release. Coincidence?
Wine is an emulator...
emulate
1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.
2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.
3. Computer Science. To imitate the function of (another system), as by modifications to hardware or software that allow the imitating system to accept the same data, execute the same programs, and achieve the same results as the imitated system.
Just because I claim not to be a 26 year old male doesn't mean that I'm not 26 year old male. Just because WINE claims not to be an emulator doesn't mean that it's not an emulator.
GTA3 is already a very system-intensive game. People with 1.8 GHz machines complain about how jerky it is. What sort of system would you need to run it well on Linux?
Emulators always slow things down, that's why they're best for older games.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Seriously though, it was emulation that killed Loki.
Ummmm, no. Loki killed Loki. The CEO was a corrupt bastard, Loki would have gone bankrupt had it been any other type of company. Sad part is, they gave gaming in Linux a bad name. Kinda like Linuxgruven, they scammed me and lots of other people, now people believe that Linux is a scam. Oh how I hate greedy corporate bastards.C Pungent
It beats the pants off Flight Gear and the physics model seems way better than FS 2002. Graphics are pretty decent (though scenery is lacking).
Runs on linux, macs and windows
www.x-plane.com
First of all, WINE is not GPL, but LGPL, which is a fairly easy license to honor. TransGaming claims that because its copy protection code is not modular, it can't abide by the LGPL. I think if WINE had been LGPLed to start with, TransGaming would have designed accordingly.
As for making money with the GPL, the dual license is the most successful, as in Qt, GhostScript, and CUPS. This requires, of course, owning all the copyright.
Developing games for multiple platforms (Win32, Linux, MacOS, etc.) can obviously add a lot of time to development for the return.
What's involved in developing for WINE? Are there things that games developers can do to increase compatibility with WINE? Surely this would be less of a leap than porting to another platform entirely?
Yes, I know good design / code should make porting easy, etc. In reality, it just isn't so (for games in particular). The 'little things' build up massivley.
actually its 5%
I should lighten up. I know it. And I know you're not saying Linux has more games developed for it than the Macintosh...but I so don't find the comment above funny for two reasons.
1. We Mac users have been on the short end of the gaming stick since the mid-90s and although things have improved tremendously and will likely improve even more, we will almost certainly never have complete pairity with the Windows world...and that truth still stings occasionally.
2. I've grown tired of Linux users acting like the latest distro is taking over the world, challenging Redmond for the desktop, gaining marketshare hand over fist, is way more relevant and popular than the Macintosh...so much so that Macintosh influence, relevance and desktop presence is openly ridiculed...when the real story is that while Linux is a phenomenon like no other, it has virtually no desktop presence at all and the development of commercial applications for it is virtually nil. Marketshare in the "NAT box in my coat closet", absolutely. Marketshare for "Web server for my mid-sized company," sure. "Render farm for a movie FX house," yes indeed. CL-based, opensource, free sysadmin widgets developed for it? Tons. But top-shelf games developed for it? Please.
Note: All flames must include 3 URLs of commercial, million-copy-selling games available for Linux and not for the Macintosh. Emulation doesn't count for either camp.
And by the way I've been playing WC3 since the day it came out right on the OS of my choice without rebooting anything. So there.
*whew*
Going to try to relax now.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
Why not roll your own with FreeCraft?
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
What about EverQuest? It is the only reason I keep a copy of Windows...
A great General once said:
"The war of the sexes will never be won, there is too much fraternization with the enemy". The same can be said about the slashdot crowd vs. megacorp.
OH not yet another "my lecence is better than yours"
(sorry, i had to bite)
By using the DMCA and other IP law as weapons against people developing legitimate software, Blizzard is "Screwing" everyone by stifling their freedoms, much like Adobe used the DMCA to get the FBI to prosecute Dmitri Skylarov when he landed in the USA. Just because you aren't the target of their lawsuit doesn't mean you're not feeling its effects.
Maybe you could try something like Kapital, which has a lot of the features of Quicken. It's only $25 right now, but is still in a pre-release status (You get free upgrades for 4 months after it is officially released).
http://www.thekompany.com/products/kapital/
I would subscribe to Transgaming, if I got a legally binding promise, that the code I bought were released to LGPL after 1 year.
That way Transgaming could make a profit and after a while the opensource wine (minus CopyProtection) would always enable playing one year old games.
But just paying Transgaming to develop their proprietary software until eternity sounds like software assurance to me.
Moritz
That is such a good point. I don't think it's doing Linux any long-term favors to have Windows-developed games work in it. In fact, it's a dis-incentive for game developers to write for Linux!
Along those same lines I've often thought Linux gaming is doomed from the start simply because almost all Linux hardware is capable of running Windows...and thus all Linux gamers are dual-booting into Windows already. The Game developer has two choices. They can either A) Develop for Linux and sell a million games or B) Not develop for Linux...and sell the same million games to the same people who will just reboot to play it. Sales are the same in either case, development costs are less in scenario A. Is it any wonder that they're choosing option A? At least developing for the Macintosh has the potential to get addition sales that you would not have been able to get otherwise.
Another scenario is the oft-discussed idea that someone should port DirectX to the Macintosh. I think this would be terrible. The Mac platform would forever be at the whim and mercy of Redmond. I can see it now...All game developers abandon more open, standard APIs in favor of "having it work everywhere with DX." Of course not all features are actually available on the Mac, but hey, it's good enough right? Pretty soon other APIs die out, developers have tons invested in DX code...then it starts to happen. DirectX 11 comes out for Windows and the Mac version is at 9.1...When asked when the new version will come out for the Macintosh they say they have no plans at present to bring it there at all because "their customers dont' want it" or some bullshit.
Then the Mac game scene is more screwed than it was in 95. A similar scenario could easily curtail Linux game development before it's really even begun.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
Somebody did some benchmarks, and WineX is really really SLOW. This is what you get from emulation.
So your options now seem to be:
1) Reboot the machine in Windows and play the game natively
2) Run the game with WineX and get a third or a quarter the speed.
No thanks, I pick option 1!!!
Regards, Guspaz.
"Whining"? I was warning, you nitwit. As in "They keep saying SCSI support is fixed with each new release, but check before you pay money because it hasn't been fixed in the past..." That's whining exactly how? I bet you wouldn't think it was whining if you had SCSI hardware.
And how do you equate this to me getting new hardware? Where the hell did you get that one?! I have certain hardware. Transgaming said their software works on that hardware. I paid money, installed said software, and found that it doesn't work. I repeated this cycle three times. I don't care what the freaking drives cost, I have my own freaking hardware already freaking installed that WineX is supposed to freaking work on but freaking won't.
Normally I don't respond to ACs, but your response was especially inane. And it reminds me again why I shouldn't bother...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Loki has had an LGPL installer for a long time that does what you ask.
http://www.lokigames.com/development/setup.php3
And there are others. You just have to look. I also have hopes that the Nullsoft NSIS (PiMP/SuperPiMP) starts to see some ports. It is released under the zlib/libpng license.
A lot of people would doubt the possibility of something like that working, because a lof od people doubt the abilitiy of precompiled binaries in Linux. Personally, I see nothing wrong with precompiled binaries for Linux that are installed by binary installers. Every X86 Linux binary installer that I have ever used has worked great. Opera, Netscape, Limewire, StarOffice/OOo., and Linux game binaries. Never had a problem with any of them. I love tar.gz sources, but graphic installers are nice too.
Yeah? I saw Quake 3 for linux in the limited edition metal box for CAD$9.99 a few days ago an an electronis boutique. I think id proved that geek support for linux gaming is not strong enought yet to make it profitable.
I've watched Kapital for about a year and keep hoping they'll add the critical features that make Quicken so great-- mostly the online bank statement downloading and reconciling features. This doesn't appear to be in Kapital now although it is mentioned on their site, and a roadmap is nowhere to be found.
...that they'd release a new version immediately after terminating my subscription.
How does the speed compare to running it under windows?
I don't have the fastest machine but if the speed isn't much worse, I might be interested in trying it out.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Actually, it depends on how you want to write your game. If you want to use all Micro$lop's native API libraries, then yes.. it would be nasty to try and then port it to other platforms without a good guarentee of ROI.
OTOH, if you write using universal libraries that are available for all platforms (OpenGL, etc.) then it becomes a matter of writing a little bit of glue for each new platform and cross-compiling.
Plan ahead or fall behind... your choice.
"1. Graphic cards are getting faster and faster and all games can be played in emulator with normal speed"
Wine Is Not an Emulator
LEXX
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
Only your freedom. Sure, if you want to accept terms that prevent you from sharing with your neighbor, go ahead. I'm going to push in the other direction: free software on Windows for an easier transition. The freedom is the important part, you see.
Anyone who buys a game from Blizzard/Vivendi after bnetd is a traitor to Open Source.
You are just showing Vivendi that they can screw us over and we'll still be dumb enough that like the battered wife we go back and buy their fscking game.
Don't be a battered wife. Buy something else with your money. Buy Max Payne, it works great in WineX. Buy Space Empires IV, it works in WineX. Buy Strategic Command, it works in WineX (although not perfectly). But DON'T buy a game from a company that has made it clear they value your civil rights about as much as they value the cow $hit they wipe off their feet when they come back in from their million dollar resort ranches.
Seems to be about a dozen posts of problems with WCIII on the transgaming site. I thought it was full support, but the game has only a 4 out of 5 reliability rating on the site. Shouldn't a game they tout as fully supported be a 5? Also, out of all the games only 3 games on there are fives.
I have been kicking around joining this in the back of my head for a while, but I guess I would like to see more five out of five reliability ratings before I cough up money. Anyone having pain/bug free experiences running their games under winex?
no support for Crusader: No Remorse or Wing Commander 2? Ahh well. Looks like I'll still have to dual boot to Win98.
If game companies would start porting their games to Linux, then all of that would change. Companies like id are a catylist for this, and it will no doubt help speed things up for more ports for other companies... However, a commercial game for *only* Linux would be stupid... But if you build your program from the start with the intent for it to be modular, and easily ported to multiple platforms, then you've killed two birds with one stone. You can sell the game to Windows and Linux gamers, and make profits on both. Linux users will increase, and the number of games will too.
So why hasn't EA decided to port MOH:AA to Linux. Their game is built off of an engine that is proven to run great (faster) in Linux? The truth is, that they don't care.
Companies like Nullsoft have decided to make a more multi-platform library, which will make ports a snap. Wasabi is a great idea, and though the current implementation into Winamp 3 looks a litle sluggish, it will improve with time. Winamp 3 will be coming to Linux right after the Windows version. From what Nullsoft says, new releases should be simultaneous.
Here, they lose nothing. No doubt, some XMMS users will switch. I personally think that I will use Winamp 3 instead of XMMS. It just sounds better to my ears (more crisp with less distortion. Better seperation of certain frequencies. This comparison was with the most recent version of XMMS, and the most recent versions of Winamp under WINE). I like having the choice. I like having more commerical apps available for Linux every day. If done right, writing software for multiple platforms is easy to do. And coding Linux binaries takes very little time.
If you have a Windows audience, then what harm is there in broadening your audience?
"I'm going to push in the other direction: free software on Windows for an easier transition. The freedom is the important part, you see"
.... you're wrong.
Tell me you're not serious.
That's just as you've bought your self a racecar. With no roads to drive on. OR, it's freedom if you're allowed to walk in your prison cell.
It's a way better solution to show a free OS being feature equal than non-free OS that runs free software too. I don't say pushing free software on commercial OS is bad, but if I understanded you correctly and that's really your way of pushing Linux, well,
Best way it would be to show feature only, "Yes it can do that, but that's a bad decision, there are better solutions"
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
I purchased a year long stay with WineX from Transgaming around 4-5 months back. Unfortunately I realized through personal experience that WineX, while a novel idea for a company, is inherently flawed for online games you might want to play.
Counter-Strike. I got to play this game for all of 4 days before Valve's Anti-Cheat code kicked in on the servers, and I've never been able to play under Wine or WineX again. We heard over and over again that a fix was in the works... just wait for the next release... etc... Well months later the next release is here and from the looks of the forums - no fix.
I'd see this as being a problem for not only C-S, but just about any other game that might involve hack/cheat checks in grapihcs code, or file structure, or libraries in general.
Still. The Transgaming folks (Gavriel!) have done an excellent job getting the cream of the crop working fairly well under Linux. Just don't expect your games to work through every patch.
http://windows.scares.us
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To those of you complaining about "emulation":
/. crowd here would do a little basic homework before complaining so loudly about "emulation".
Is everyone here illiterate? The WINE Homepage says "WINE is Not an Emulator".
WINE is a Windows compatibility layer. It allows executables written for Windows to run under Linux by having all the necessary Windows API's re-implemented under the Linux OS in an Open Source manner.
An emulator emulates some hardware (e.g. atari, NES, SNES). WINE is running your Windows application NATIVELY on the intel-compatible CPU in your system.
Jeez... I would expect that the
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Is Codeweavers Wine any different than WineHQ Wine, or does it just include codeweavers extra tools? The current Codeweavers version is a few months older, so is it worth it? Can you use the tools from the Codeweavers set with the newer wine from WineHQ? Thanks
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
What did you think hybrid meant?
Just heard back from Codeweavers, they have a Quicken crossover coming out in a few days!
HIP, HIP, HOORAY!
Loonuckz is another OS/2 Warp well on its way!
KUDOS!
And linux is not an operating system, it's a kernel. So what? Do we have to be that pedantic?
You just got rid of the last thing I needed a windows partition on my laptop for. I can't tell you how much this pleases me. fdisk, here I come!
I'll hoist one in your honor tonight. Thanks!
I use to view the Mac as having only bad/learning games a while ago. Then I started viewing them as having 3 or 4 large releases. But I was checking out the Apple online store, and I was AMAZED at how many NEW and GOOD games were out for Mac. And in a fairly particular order: 4x4 Evo2, Age of Empire 2, Alice, Aliens Vs. Predadtor, Alpha Centauri, Baldur's Gate, Baldurs Gate 2, Baldurs Gate: TSC, Beach Head 2002, Bioscopia, Black & White, Civilization 3, Undying, Descent 3, Deus Ex, Diablo 1/2, Driver, F/A-18 Korea, Fallout 2, Fly 2, Giants, Icewind Dale, Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast, Majesty, Max Payne, Medal of Honor, Myth 3, No One Lives Forever, Otto Matic, RealMyst, Red Faction, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Sheep, Sin, Soldier of Fortune 2, Spiderman, Star Trek Voyager: EF, Star Wars:Galactic Battleground, StarCraft, Rainbow 6, Rogue Spear, Tomb Raider, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, Unreal Tournament, Warcraft 2, 3, Wingnuts, and Wipeout 2097. While that may not be enough for a hardcore gamer, I'd definently say that the majority of the general public would find that more than sufficient. *No, I don't use Mac.
Only the meek get pinched. The bold survive.
If WineX could give me a nearly, 100% speed and working Half-Life client, Win32 would be onto the slower partition immediately.
Valve could make a decent lump of cash by making a Linux client and it would certainly increase their reach of games to non-Win32 users.
It is suspected (but not known) that this authorization is somehow conditional upon using tools licensed by DVDCCA. But DVDCCA also apparently have severe technical restrictions they impose upon their licensees, such as obeying region restrictions, macrovision-encoding video output, and not haveing firewire outputs. So you really think that using a DVD player application in an alien environment (a Windows emulator) is going to be within those restrictions? If so, then your faith is strong indeed!
There is little reason to believe that using PowerDVD is more legal than using applications that use libcss.
The only thing that makes it legal or not, is whether or not you have their permission. In the end, their agreements with third parties such a DVDCCA or the company who made a computer application or an electronic appliance for watching DVDs, are irrelevant. What matters is what agreement that have with you. And you don't have a single scrap of evidence to support any claim that you have permission to watch any DVD that you own. The most obvious evidence -- that they sold you the DVD and therefore you obviously have implicit permission -- has already been shot down by Kaplan.
Effort expended on playing DVDs "legally", is a waste of time. As long as DMCA remains law and DVDs do not come with EULAs that give people permission to watch or explain conditions under which they have permission to watch, it will never be provably legal for anyone to watch a CSS-protected DVD. It doesn't matter if you use xine, PowerDVD, or a Sony DVD player.
If you are "constantly trying to piss off the various copyright holder coorporations" then you have to give up DVDs altogether. Because if they really do get pissed off at you, they can nail you on this technicality. And the 2600 case proves they are willing.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Currently game developers arent developing for linux because theres no market.
Theres no market because theres no games.
WineX brings games which brings gamers to linux, bringing the market.
The market eventually brings native ports.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Transgamming is doing a good job of making Windows versions of games run on Linux but the problem is the speed. There is usually a BIG performance hit.
So, what this means is that if you want to play an older game that was developed when computer speeds were slower then they'll probably be fine but if you try to play one that is pushing the current performance envelope in Windows it will be a painful experience to play it under WINEX.
One of the main advantages of bringing Linux into the main stream is that eventually there will be more games that run natively. Linux is a vary capable gamming OS. The version of Quake 3 that runs under Linux actually has a higher frame rate than the Windows version.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
But, when are they going to support EverCrack? It's one of my final windows excuses, but the habit is too hard to break!
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Games like Warcraft never interested me. Number one task for WineX is best game of 2001 - Civilization 3.
Few weeks ago I downloaded CVS snapshot as usual, and - as usual - tested Civ3. But first time ever - Civilization3 worked in Wine. I played few hours with only one problem - lines in F4 view (peca/war/etc) weren't visible. So I've asked on comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine, but nobody answered. Then I updated my CVS snapshot and... from this time Civ3 never worked again. When I click "New Game" - nothing happens.
I just haven't got time to back to old version (AFAIK it's possible with CVS), so I am asking here - is Civ3 working for you in WineX? (it could be something wrong on my system)
There is a
forum but nobody wrote yet, that Civ3 is working for him/her.
I know this isn't exactly related to gaming but one thing I cannot get working on any version of WINE is direct parallel port access.
I've got am MPLAB ICE 2000 (in-circuit emulator that plugs into parallel port) and even though I've enabled the port= lines in the wine config, enabled read and write to those addresses and have the ppuser module loaded, WINE won't let me get direct access to my printer port. I've made sure that my WINE executable is executing su root too but no luck. :-(
Has anyone got this to work with any version of WINE?
And it blows WC3 out of the water.
WC3 isn't really a RTS game, it's more of a wierd cross between an RPG and an RTS game. The reliance on heroes is antithetical to most RTS games, for instance, but is a main component of an RPG.
The original poster based his argument on the fact that emulation results in lower performance. The person who replied was pointing out that this point is moot because wine is not an emulator, therefore the argument doesn't even apply to wine.
That aint being pedantic, that's telling someone they are wrong.
Oh brother, someone didn't read the site very carefully. It was clear to me from day one that the mandrake gaming eidtion was the one, if you actually READ the game profile when they first put it up, they were numeroues comments stating as such in the game profile.
It was only misleading because you didn't bother reading things very closely. To make this even clearer they have since made very sure that any place "The Sims" is referenced it's made clear that it's only Mandrake Gaming Edition
I agree.... WC3 isn't all that innovative, but honestly, I'm willing to bet that the majority of people playing it under WineX are also the folks who downloaded the ISO image off a newsgroup or copied it from a friend. In fact, considering Blizzard's poor attitude towards independent people developing gaming servers for the product - I'd have to say I'd condone/encourage that.
m l
The question isn't really "Why pay good money to support software that's not innovative?" (If you enjoy the game, then that should pretty much speak for itself. People buy the games they have fun playing - innovative or not.) The question here is, "Why pay to support a company that punishes developers of open source software that compliments the commercial product?"
http://www.isp-planet.com/news/2002/v_020411.ht
http://www.boycottblizzard.org/
Warcraft III is running using OpenGL in Linux. That game is running FASTER (please note my capitalized letters) than in Windows. I'm not kidding.
Ciryon
Boss: "Look what I just read on this website called slashdot! They STOLE OUR GAME!!!"
Lawyer: "It only looks like they wrote something to let additional people run the game"
Boss: "No. It's a trick. They stole our code, I know it! In fact, they are promoting piracy by letting more people play the game! Sue them! I love suing innocent developers!"
Lawyer: "Actually this project is owned by Transgaming...."
Boss: "Oh, nevermind. Go get me some coffee."
Yes, the Sun moderators reserve the right to refuse patches that may make OpenOffice a more attractive alternative to StarOffice.
However, the beauty of the GPL means that you can make your own! You can make a "TrulyOpenOffice" which is a duplicate of OpenOffice's source code, and you can stick whatever features you want in there! Then, you can redistribute it as much as you want, as long as your version is also under the GPL.
You'll have to convince people to use your version but if it has merit over OpenOffice, then that shouldn't be too hard.
Back on topic: Transgaming is not like OpenOffice. Transgaming's license is proprietary and you would be in violation of their license if you decided to make your own "OpenTransGaming" fork.
One of the biggest problems with Transgaming's model is that it has a "chilling effect" on the Wine effort. If a developer has a choice of whether she should work on DirectX support, or on a different feature, she may think "I won't bother with DirectX since Transgaming already did it. I'll just wait for them to release their source code. Instead I'll work on..."
I think transgaming is pretty sleasy. Originally, they promised to release the source as soon as they got 15,000 subscribers. They claimed to release it under a license "similar to the wine license." Now this is nowhere to be seen. I signed up because I thought their business model was an interesting idea, the "Street performers protocol." Now they seem to have renigged on this, after taking many peoples money under false pretenses.
If they can't release the code under the LGPL, how would they ever release it under a wine license? These guys are just crooks.
Gnuyen
I have already been playing it on linux for weeks now. For anyone who doesn't want to have to pay, try this howto (not, this howto DOESNT use the latest version of winex, but it has specific code that had to be removed because the author feared DMCA): http://www.transgaming.com/showthread.php?msg=1163 8&forum=6&thread=11638
p.s. I crash about once every 2 hours, and i get no graphical anomolies.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Sounds like old staticis to me.
Hell, even my mom is running Linux.
Obviously, you've never used WineX.
Since WC3 is available for Mac, i suppose its engine uses OpenGL. So what about a native Linux port?
Today's MacOS X apps do not get you much closer to Linux. MacOS X has two APIs, the most popular one today is Carbon. Carbon is a cleaned up version of the original Mac Toolbox/Quickdraw. When an app is written using the Carbon API it can be run under the BSD/Mach based MacOS X and the legacy proprietary MacOS 9.
Cocoa is MacOS X's other API and it is derived from NeXTStep. Targetting this API would get you very close to other *nix platforms but MacOS 9 would not be an option.
Developers are currently sticking to Carbon for two reasons. (1) They want to target MacOS 9. (2) They are leveraging legacy MacOS source code, libraries, and experience. Guestimates are that only 10% of older Mac source code has to be reworked to make it Carbon compatible.
Warcraft III also support OpenGL. Use "-opengl" on the command line.
Even in starcraft games between 2 cable modem users, it can get laggy
You lag problem is not battle.net. Starcraft games are peer-to-peer, battle.net is only involved when the game results are reported. If you are having lag it is you or the other guy.
Diablo II is client/server and server induced lag is possible.
Develop with WineX in mind? Not a good idea. First why limit your game for such a small niche? It is a better business decision to leverage all you can get out of Win32/DirectX regardless of WineX compatibility. You have to be highly competitive against all the other PC games first. Second, any compatibility problems will be rapidly addressed by WineX developers for you.
Damning evidence.
It's quite sad, really. There are those out there who use Linux, KDE | Gnome, {Star|Open}Office, etc. and gently, peacefully encourage others to do so. Then there are those who open bash Microsoft in unfounded vehement tirades or praise Linux with exuberant hyperbole. The latter will go home in the evening, fire up their aging copy of Win98, browse to Slashdot with Internet Explorer, and in the most blatent show of hypocracy available, vote for Microsoft Office as their favorite office suite.
Dude! That's like $2.50US! What a deal! =)
BNETD shut down, Blizzard Bad.
Warcraft III released, Blizzard Good.
Fucking hell.
Welcome to Slashdot. Please leave your individuality and integrity at the door.... You're one of us now.
Baaaaaaa......
Oh, just Id. What popular have they ever done anyway?
I'm sure they would've released sooner, but all us regular subscribers have been chomping at the bit for War3 support (too bad I beat the game already). Shipping without War3 support would piss off way too many people.
And, if you can't afford 5$ a month, you should rethink your current career. I make practically nothing, but I can handle 100$ a year (CDN) no problem.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
It was developed on NeXTStep, not Unix, I THINK!
But then for any particular scale N, the word "tactics" becomes just a pseudonym for "the strategy of N-1, the scale one smaller that the one I'm paying attention to." Which is tactic and which is strategy depends on what level of depth the speaker is talking about.
In an overly reductionist sort of way, yes. But the difference isn't a matter of "depth" but rather one of function. Tactics are the detailed plans that make an strategy work. One can concentrate on tactics just as much strategy, (this is the old "seeing the forest from the trees" problem) but ultimately you need both. At some levels stragegy can become tactics and vice-versa depending on what level you are looking at a problem from.
There is a trite (but true) old saying that amateurs study tactics while professionals study strategy. Think of it in a programming context. What makes a good programmer is not simply having memorized each of the commands, but having an overall framework in which to utilize them. Knowing some C++ is useless unless you also understand the concepts behind object-oriented programming. However knowing all the concepts is useless without some method (pun unintended) to implement them.
OpenOffice is not under the GPL but rather a dual license. From OpenOffice License FAQ:
1. Which license does the OpenOffice.org project use?
OpenOffice.org uses a dual license strategy for the source code. These licenses are the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) and the Sun Industry Standards Source License (SISSL).
The LGPL license is not the stumbling block but rather the SISSL. It starts sounding like Mozilla's MPL until you read into it.
>>Transgaming already did it. I'll just wait for them to release their source code.
Why would Transgaming release thier proprietary WineX code? Why would anyone think this? Is there some confusion in people wondering if Transgamings WineX is open source?
Has anyone that supports WINE actually given a thought to what happens if this is the way things go? Let me once again state the blindingly obvious timeline that WINE leads us to
1) WINE improves its windows emulation, more games work under Linux than ever before.
2) Development of native Linux games is pretty much destroyed by WINE emulation because the few porting companies struggling to survive at this early stage cannot hope to keep up with dozens of well funded windows development companies.
3) Emulated games become the norm. By definition they are slower than native, less reliable, but we can sacrifice reliability because we can play games NOW!
4) As Linux games are all now emulated, sales figures for Linux games are all showing up as Windows sales. Linux sales figures effectively become zero, giving no incentive for any software company to produce native ports.
5) Microsoft, who though evil are damned clever with their lawyers, finds a nice little legal way to kill WINE, through a patent issue, or some DMCA clone or who knows. WINE development stops.
6) New games stop running on Linux because WINE cant support DirectX 12 or whatever the latest version is. Nobody thinks to worry about it in the game development companies because Linux sales figures are zero (see 4).
7) Linux gets less games that will work. The companies that busted their balls trying to make native Linux gaming viable, companies like Tux Games, Loki and LGP have all long since gone.
8) With nobody left to support Linux gaming, Linux gaming dies.
9) With no new games, Linux desktop becomes less attractive and people happily move back to windows so they can play the latest games NOW (see 3)
10) Bill Gates sends thankyou letter to Transgaming and other WINE supporters.
Any questions?
Sure I am a biased party. That is because by founding Tux Games, I have put my money where my mouth is and bet the whole house on native Linux because unlike Transgaming, I BELIEVE THAT LINUX DOES NOT NEED TO USE WINDOWS AS A CRUTCH AND THAT LINUX IS A DAMNED FINE OS IN ITS OWN RIGHT..
Note: Tux Games has been offered time and again, the opportunity to carry Transgaming games. We are well aware that if we did so, we would make more money, but we STRONGLY believe in the above timeline threat, and so we put our morals where our mouth is and stand by Linux native. Want to do the same? Then dont inflate Windows sales figures, support those that are working all hours to bring YOU new products.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
Hey coward! Did you misunderstand? The people above
On to the meat of the troll-feeding:
>>Get a real OS that runs 90% of the world's software and you won't have these problems
I don't get it... Windows may run the largest percentage of the world's (commercial consumer-intended) software, but even Microsoft themselves make misleading statements about their Windows-targeted products' functionality and delay releases all the time.
>>The world is so tired of you linux losers complaining that no one supports your software.
1) Speak for yourself.
2) What does that have to do with this?
>>Get a job, and pay for your software.
Which they did... And now they're pissed off because the vendor misled them.
>>Nothing runs on your crap OS? Well, you get what you pay for.
Really? Well, you're the one who paid for your crap OS, my friend. So, you tell us: was it worth it? And, while you're busy bashing linux users, has it occurred to you that the growth of linux increases OS functionality and lowers prices even for those who can't/won't use it? Or is the joke on you?
>>You made a choice, live with it and shut up.
Well, gee, if you feel so strongly that way, why don't you do the same? =)
http://www.transgaming.com/showpage.php?page=tos
They can change them at any time, terminate the service agreement (with cause).
Compare what you have to do and what Transgaming has to do:
"YOUR OBLIGATIONS. You agree to pay the fee applicable to your subscription. You agree to provide legal authorization for debit or credit-card charges, be they monthly, quarterly, bi-annually, or annually. You acknowledge that you cannot obtain a refund for early cancellation of any kind.
You warrant that you are the cardholder of the credit or debit card you provide and the relevant information required for processing charges with said card is valid at all times. You must notify any entity that collects payments from you on behalf of TransGaming of any change of address in a timely fashion. If your debit or credit card expires, you must notify the entity that collects payments from you on behalf of TransGaming of the new expiration date before the previous expiration date has passed. TransGaming reserves the right to levy an administration fee for any credit card or debit transaction that fails."
Transgaming's "OBLIGATIONS. Subject to your compliance with these Terms of Service, TransGaming hereby grants you a personal, non-transferable and non-exclusive license to access and use the Services. "
The Services are not even defined in the agreement. I very much doubt, that this contract could even be upheld for a minute in a German court. Our legal system is not (yet?) as corrupt as the US American legal system.
Contracts of the type: We get everything, you nothing, you carry the risk, you pay, we can change the contract whenever we want are unfair.
Moritz
Here is a nisch no one seems to care about.. Douglas Adams' Starship Titanic can only run on win95 (win2k and XP just wan't cut it) - but no one delivered a patch, no one even cares that the game hang on the very beginning...
Wine ppl - get a copy and make the thing work!! please!!
They cant release code if you dont stay subscribed, and you dont stay subscribed because they dont release code.
Look, someone has to take the risk, they dont have the money to do it because if they do it they migght not exsist in a year.
So whos going to take the risk?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Where's the Plan 9 support
If you look at the cold hard facts, it matters not one bit whether wine exists or not.
:-
Linux does not have any kind of dominance on the desktop - in fact, it's probably used on less than 0.1% of desktops worldwide.
I very much dought if the following is the case
<b>Game Developer:-<b> "Ohhh - look - Wine for Linux can run our games ! - Thank God, now we don't have to make a native Linux port for about 0.001% of our total market !"
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
I just finished a short writeup on WineX/Warcraft three over at PCBurn.com covering (briefly) the game and makeing it go. Really works quite well.
As more Mac systems get moved over to OSX, more game companies that want to support Mac will be porting to OSX. I'm guessing that would make it much easier to further port them to Linux. OSX != Linux, but it's a heck of a lot closer than it is to Windoze.
Check out this interview from Codeweaver's CEO-- turns out they didn't have to figure out much at all of wacky API calls to get Quicken working.
. html
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT7614463206
BTW I bought Crossover Office today and it does in fact seem to run Quicken very well. Still a bit rough, but runs well enough to use.