As I read the comments it seems most people are thinking of installing EULAs..
THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING!!
Many of the points I read make sense at first... 'if you buy the software you own it, agreements are bs'.. and at first it seems right. But you're forgetting something...
This EULA is not an installation EULA.. its a server usage EULA. Remember, these people not only bought and installed the software... they were RENTING the usage of the server they DID NOT own.
Seeing as how so many of you are SysAdmins (or fancy yourself ones at least;) I would like to think you could apprecaite respect for someone elses computer being accessed remotely. I mean.. if I login and hack your box can I say 'hey.. I installed this ssh program myself, you can't tell me how to use it!'
While they may have purchased the software straight out they did not purchase the server and hence must follow the rules of conduct on said server. While I have never ran DAoC I have seen other popular games and I can tell you that you agree to a EULA everytime you login...
The EULA is not to install files.. the EULA is when you access the server. And if you don't think server owners have a right to dictate that then who the hell does?
Oh.. and in case you didn't read the story (i'm sure all/.ers read them all though;) these people were hacking the server... exploiting the server... certainly not something a bunch of sysadmins and sysadmin wannabes should be defending..
Hm.. now that I mention that, maybe its terrorism *G*
Well.. personally I have played my share of EQ in my day. In case you haven't it's pretty clearly a ripoff of D&D straight across (which is all Tolken anyway.. but eh.. ). So maybe all the races have been seen before, maybe no new concepts. But it IS a new world.. it is their world (you're in our world now is their slogan).. this allows them to write history, future, plot lines..
It allows you to be the main character in your own little world.. silly perhaps.. but
If you put it all in a preexisting storyline, with a preexisting world with already established heros, already planned and acted major events...well what the hell is the point anymore?
Why bother with a Matrix mmorpg? Afterall you aren't the one... the one will fix everything... you are just a spudly.. you don't matter. No matter what you do, live or die, quest or destory evil bad guys... you have no effect.
At least with EQ (which is quite a ripoff at times) they could make their own races... if they ripped off a race they could give it a new history.. they could make their own evil badguys.. name their own dragons.
Can they REALLY do that in SWG and Matrix? The world is already defined.. races and classes already exist, already have a history.
In other words.. EQ while being a ripoff allowed room for creativity, for discovery. SWG and Matrix are just yet another marketing device.. 'ooh ooh lets make a cool racing game.. then put it on Tatooine and call it SW Epi1 Pod Racer!!'
It is one thing being yet another adventurer in a world with no pre defined heros or plotlines... but why pay the money just to play a cameo in a movie?
Really.. why is everybody getting their panties all in a bunch here? Two kernels? My big toe! Making Linux look fragmented?! WHAT?!
No I'm not a moron.. heh.. well maybe.. but I have two points..
1- There are not '2 kernels'.. this is crap.. there is ONE linux kernel (currently at 2.4.14.. which is development anyway.. but thats for another post;) and a couple of different development kernels that most 'normal users' (ie not kernel hackers) will never touch. I think we can agree that those adventurous users who dwelve into pre and ac patches at least know enough to know they are called pre/ac for a reason. And yes.. I know there were 2 kinds of kernels.. at a sort of esoteric level but when we say 'the Linux Kernel' in the context of a normal running system doesn't that rather imply the stable branch of it? How many distros ship with ac? In the default... not in 'super expert mode'? Too many distros to say none.. but I've never seen one..
2- How is this going to ever possibly give the impression that linux is too fragmented compared to anything?! I figure (and I know this is a grevious over simplification) that there are basically two kinds of users.. those who know and those who don't. Those who know (IBM, Compaq.. those companies we want so bad) will know enough about the story to realize this is a disagreement in timing if anything and no big deal... Those who don't haven't heard about this anyway.
So other than the kernel developers needing to run both.. what's the problem?
now that I can no longer use 'gee uhh, Windows crashed' as an excuse to why I suddenly disappeared in a game of Broodwars before getting my ass tromped yet again;)
But seriously, I've played Starcraft with Wine with fairly decent results... don't see any reason to get this except the usual 'ppl won't make games for linux unless we buy them' (which I admit is true). Usually I play on our Win machine.. it's there, and if we didn't use it for games it would probably feel pretty pointless *G*
Is it just me or does the story reek of 'riding the public interest'? A story of little to no meaning that is just one more way of throwing the nasty virus scare at the public... to rehash what is possible at heart just another rehash story to remind us of the news that was (is) CodeRed (and other worms/viruses that made the mainstream).
Don't get me wrong... I realize that this is a very real issue. But assuming for a second that any software on a device that ever communicated with the outside world (via disk xchange, bbs, net, etc) is and likely always will be a possible victim to a virus/worm. With that in mind what is this article really saying? Its software and its online, of course its might be suspectable to a currently undiscovered exploit. I'm not saying it should be ignored... but is this news or just another media attempt to scare the public and/or rehash an old story?
It appears to me the only 'news' of the story is this preemptive strike, antivirus software. Now I have certainly never been the most paranoid geek in the world, but having antivirus software on a critical system seems to me more of a good step then a strike of any sort... it is not preemptive, it is delayed. I think a quote from the artical by Rob Rosenberg sums it up well... "The threat is quite simply that people won't use antivirus software on the devices, won't use security software, won't use proper passwords,"
Alas.. isn't that ALWAYS the problem? Again I ask.. is this really news?
It seems to me this entire situation is quite dangerous in the long run. I could be wrong, I only read the cnn site, but it appears to me that the French courts are proving unable to enforce their own bans and are basically shifting responsibilty to Yahoo. As I said this strikes me as quite dangerous.
Seems like I remember in my BBS days most boards had disclaimers including a line like 'any legal action brought against this bbs or its operators will use the laws relevant to OurCity, SomeState'. At the time it didn't seem like a big deal, bbs'es are pretty local.. but alas, we all had them. How many countries exist...how many view points?
My worry is this... If France can sue Yahoo becuase they don't want nazi related material... can Afghanistan then sue victoria secrerets or playboy because they don't like nudity (pretend for a moment they are online;)... could Iran sue McDonalds and Coke for imperlistic capitalism? The idea is basically the same... if one country out of the hundreds in the world can put a halt on something because they don't like it we are asking for trouble.
If France doesn't want something coming in perhaps they could do something besides whine?
I could be wrong (has been known to happen from time to time;) but it looks like all sides are forming alliances and facing off for some sort of huge computer/internet armegeddon.... ok maybe thats an exaggeration..
But with the AOL/Time-Warner deal... and Microsofts already quite extensive network of software and media companies.. this Netzero/Juno thing seems to cap it off with three major computer/net/media/etc 'groups'.
Now I realize all have unique customers all their own, obviously Juno/Netzero (uol is it?) can't really compete with Microsoft on a software basis. But I think we will see these 3 conglomerates battling it out for 'most influential' net company out there...
Or maybe I've been staying up too late reading Orwell..shrugs...
I think that would change this to a 'what is linux' discussion... considering all the changes it would take to transform your average gui friendly linux distro to something your average console game player can consider 'idiot proof' one has to wonder if it'd still be linux.
I like the idea of AOL and Sony doing something along these lines, putting up a fight beats whining anyday... but linux seems like the wrong choice.
Perhaps BE is available? *G*
Whats a sig?
------ cat ~/lamesig >> ~/lamecomment ------
Well its a great idea but...
on
PS2 As PC
·
· Score: 2
Companies like AOL are in it for the greenbacks period. While a PS2 running a linux varient might appeal us geeks running *inx and spending too much time on/., I tend to doubt the demand wouldn't be nearly enough to gain AOLs intrest.
There aren't all that many Linux buffs with AOL accounts, for obvious reasons. Considering their reputation for utter leetness I doubt many would be eager to sign up just to get their PS2 online. I mean.. who here wants to admit to signing up with aol? *G*
And on the flip side, how many AOLers can hack X11? (well...maybe kde.. *grin*)
Anyway long story short, putting linux on game consoles is something best left to geeks:P
Slashdot Mirror
As I read the comments it seems most people are thinking of installing EULAs..
;) I would like to think you could apprecaite respect for someone elses computer being accessed remotely. I mean.. if I login and hack your box can I say 'hey.. I installed this ssh program myself, you can't tell me how to use it!'
/.ers read them all though ;) these people were hacking the server... exploiting the server... certainly not something a bunch of sysadmins and sysadmin wannabes should be defending..
THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING!!
Many of the points I read make sense at first... 'if you buy the software you own it, agreements are bs'.. and at first it seems right. But you're forgetting something...
This EULA is not an installation EULA.. its a server usage EULA. Remember, these people not only bought and installed the software... they were RENTING the usage of the server they DID NOT own.
Seeing as how so many of you are SysAdmins (or fancy yourself ones at least
While they may have purchased the software straight out they did not purchase the server and hence must follow the rules of conduct on said server. While I have never ran DAoC I have seen other popular games and I can tell you that you agree to a EULA everytime you login...
The EULA is not to install files.. the EULA is when you access the server. And if you don't think server owners have a right to dictate that then who the hell does?
Oh.. and in case you didn't read the story (i'm sure all
Hm.. now that I mention that, maybe its terrorism *G*
Well.. personally I have played my share of EQ in my day. In case you haven't it's pretty clearly a ripoff of D&D straight across (which is all Tolken anyway.. but eh.. ). So maybe all the races have been seen before, maybe no new concepts. But it IS a new world.. it is their world (you're in our world now is their slogan).. this allows them to write history, future, plot lines..
It allows you to be the main character in your own little world.. silly perhaps.. but
If you put it all in a preexisting storyline, with a preexisting world with already established heros, already planned and acted major events...well what the hell is the point anymore?
Why bother with a Matrix mmorpg? Afterall you aren't the one... the one will fix everything... you are just a spudly.. you don't matter. No matter what you do, live or die, quest or destory evil bad guys... you have no effect.
At least with EQ (which is quite a ripoff at times) they could make their own races... if they ripped off a race they could give it a new history.. they could make their own evil badguys.. name their own dragons.
Can they REALLY do that in SWG and Matrix? The world is already defined.. races and classes already exist, already have a history.
In other words.. EQ while being a ripoff allowed room for creativity, for discovery. SWG and Matrix are just yet another marketing device.. 'ooh ooh lets make a cool racing game.. then put it on Tatooine and call it SW Epi1 Pod Racer!!'
It is one thing being yet another adventurer in a world with no pre defined heros or plotlines... but why pay the money just to play a cameo in a movie?
Really.. why is everybody getting their panties all in a bunch here? Two kernels? My big toe! Making Linux look fragmented?! WHAT?!
;) and a couple of different development kernels that most 'normal users' (ie not kernel hackers) will never touch. I think we can agree that those adventurous users who dwelve into pre and ac patches at least know enough to know they are called pre/ac for a reason. And yes.. I know there were 2 kinds of kernels.. at a sort of esoteric level but when we say 'the Linux Kernel' in the context of a normal running system doesn't that rather imply the stable branch of it? How many distros ship with ac? In the default... not in 'super expert mode'? Too many distros to say none.. but I've never seen one..
No I'm not a moron.. heh.. well maybe.. but I have two points..
1- There are not '2 kernels'.. this is crap.. there is ONE linux kernel (currently at 2.4.14.. which is development anyway.. but thats for another post
2- How is this going to ever possibly give the impression that linux is too fragmented compared to anything?! I figure (and I know this is a grevious over simplification) that there are basically two kinds of users.. those who know and those who don't. Those who know (IBM, Compaq.. those companies we want so bad) will know enough about the story to realize this is a disagreement in timing if anything and no big deal... Those who don't haven't heard about this anyway.
So other than the kernel developers needing to run both.. what's the problem?
Appearently the CNN news feed (being displayed in #cnn_newsfeed @ irc.idlenet.org) is down till 8AM EST.
:)
If anybody finds any running newsfeed plz post them
now that I can no longer use 'gee uhh, Windows crashed' as an excuse to why I suddenly disappeared in a game of Broodwars before getting my ass tromped yet again ;)
But seriously, I've played Starcraft with Wine with fairly decent results... don't see any reason to get this except the usual 'ppl won't make games for linux unless we buy them' (which I admit is true). Usually I play on our Win machine.. it's there, and if we didn't use it for games it would probably feel pretty pointless *G*
Is it just me or does the story reek of 'riding the public interest'? A story of little to no meaning that is just one more way of throwing the nasty virus scare at the public... to rehash what is possible at heart just another rehash story to remind us of the news that was (is) CodeRed (and other worms/viruses that made the mainstream).
Don't get me wrong... I realize that this is a very real issue. But assuming for a second that any software on a device that ever communicated with the outside world (via disk xchange, bbs, net, etc) is and likely always will be a possible victim to a virus/worm. With that in mind what is this article really saying? Its software and its online, of course its might be suspectable to a currently undiscovered exploit. I'm not saying it should be ignored... but is this news or just another media attempt to scare the public and/or rehash an old story?
It appears to me the only 'news' of the story is this preemptive strike, antivirus software. Now I have certainly never been the most paranoid geek in the world, but having antivirus software on a critical system seems to me more of a good step then a strike of any sort... it is not preemptive, it is delayed. I think a quote from the artical by Rob Rosenberg sums it up well... "The threat is quite simply that people won't use antivirus software on the devices, won't use security software, won't use proper passwords,"
Alas.. isn't that ALWAYS the problem? Again I ask.. is this really news?
It seems to me this entire situation is quite dangerous in the long run. I could be wrong, I only read the cnn site, but it appears to me that the French courts are proving unable to enforce their own bans and are basically shifting responsibilty to Yahoo. As I said this strikes me as quite dangerous.
...how many view points?
;)... could Iran sue McDonalds and Coke for imperlistic capitalism? The idea is basically the same... if one country out of the hundreds in the world can put a halt on something because they don't like it we are asking for trouble.
Seems like I remember in my BBS days most boards had disclaimers including a line like 'any legal action brought against this bbs or its operators will use the laws relevant to OurCity, SomeState'. At the time it didn't seem like a big deal, bbs'es are pretty local.. but alas, we all had them. How many countries exist
My worry is this... If France can sue Yahoo becuase they don't want nazi related material... can Afghanistan then sue victoria secrerets or playboy because they don't like nudity (pretend for a moment they are online
If France doesn't want something coming in perhaps they could do something besides whine?
------ cat ~/lamesig >> ~/lamecomment ------
*cough*..
Well I do admit I posted that a bit quick in an effort to grab First Post but I DID read the article... just explained myself poorly.
Just for kicks... I'll rephrase: Does anybody have any knowledge what kind of webbugs our 'beloved slashdot' is running.
------ cat ~/lamesig >> ~/lamecomment ------
I could be wrong (has been known to happen from time to time ;) but it looks like all sides are forming alliances and facing off for some sort of huge computer/internet armegeddon.... ok maybe thats an exaggeration..
But with the AOL/Time-Warner deal... and Microsofts already quite extensive network of software and media companies.. this Netzero/Juno thing seems to cap it off with three major computer/net/media/etc 'groups'.
Now I realize all have unique customers all their own, obviously Juno/Netzero (uol is it?) can't really compete with Microsoft on a software basis. But I think we will see these 3 conglomerates battling it out for 'most influential' net company out there...
Or maybe I've been staying up too late reading Orwell..shrugs...
------ cat ~/lamesig >> ~/lamecomment ------
I think that would change this to a 'what is linux' discussion... considering all the changes it would take to transform your average gui friendly linux distro to something your average console game player can consider 'idiot proof' one has to wonder if it'd still be linux.
I like the idea of AOL and Sony doing something along these lines, putting up a fight beats whining anyday... but linux seems like the wrong choice.
Perhaps BE is available? *G*
Whats a sig?
------ cat ~/lamesig >> ~/lamecomment ------
Companies like AOL are in it for the greenbacks period. While a PS2 running a linux varient might appeal us geeks running *inx and spending too much time on /., I tend to doubt the demand wouldn't be nearly enough to gain AOLs intrest.
:P
There aren't all that many Linux buffs with AOL accounts, for obvious reasons. Considering their reputation for utter leetness I doubt many would be eager to sign up just to get their PS2 online. I mean.. who here wants to admit to signing up with aol? *G*
And on the flip side, how many AOLers can hack X11? (well...maybe kde.. *grin*)
Anyway long story short, putting linux on game consoles is something best left to geeks
Whats a sig?
------ cat ~/lamesig >> ~/lamecomment ------