Um Gentoo hardly is a flavour of the month nor is it unpopular. It's just not as newsworthy as Ubuntu as it's been essentially the same for the last half decade or so. Ubuntu is the new flavour on the block. Not saying it's bad, just that it's getting attention because people are all impressed by what essentially is Knoppix.
Yeah the sort you can't put upgrade hardware in, at least the sort you can buy yourself without shelling out 3x the cost to get custom fit bullshit.
Sometimes a nice "bulky" Antec case is just a smarter choice? That and frankly the PC just sits there, I don't fucking look at it. I look at my monitor.
And besides keyboard/mouse/sound are already colour coded on most proper motherboards. If you can't sort out where the VGA and power plugs go you should return the computer and buy a lava lamp instead.
Results would be the same. Some random asshat from a RWP [rich white party] would take office do a couple humanitarian things then proceed to rape and pillage the countries resources for their own purposes.
Question: Would the leadership be any different if they used a magic-8 ball instead?
What new technology was developed to produce this machine?
Or was it a case of having loads of money, room and a friendly merchant at Fry's?
That's my complaint. It was different with the first Crays. Nothing like it existed before. They had to invent new technology to accomplish it. This is more a case of networking via gige and optical then stacking box upon box.
It wasn't a troll. I honestly believe we don't step back and say "should we do this". Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of the computers on top500.org how many of them have led to new discoveries or tested hypothesises [sp?]?
It not just computers though. Look at the number of people who subscribe to the notion that they need their own personal vehicle, bottled water, blah blah blah.
So a group built a overgrown home computer. Big deal. Let's wait and see what they accomplish with it.
That's just the point. If you want to block public roads and intefere with the lives of millions you had better have permission first. In short, who the fuck are you to block my way to work? To the movies? Airport? etc...
I had to deal with this recently when in Ottawa the farmers were protesting the governments lack of handouts by driving their tractors slowly on the highways. I think they had permits for it but it was still a pain in the ass. Took me three times longer to get to work. Do I now care [or really know about] the plight of the farmers? No. I hate their faces. I'd rather buy produce from the states as my way of protesting.
To have an organized society we have to have consensus. To have a progressive society we need disturbance. The trick though is to know the limits. You can damage your cause with unruly protesters just as easily as you can help it with an orderly permitted march.
Where are the really neato results we should be getting from these? I'm tired of "Country X builds massive TeraWatt computer system." I want to read about "Country X mapped the cancer genome" or some such.
Besides, these are relatively not impressive. Sure in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s we were maturing the technology. Inventing new technology, analyzing it, etc. Now it's more of the same. Huge budget, lots of space and infiniband connections...
Show me the MFlops/Watt rating of this? Are they improving it? Are we wasting less resources? The irony of this is they pollute by wasting tons of energy, all so we can predict global warming or whatever.
"I was using my 1st admendment rights and they arrested me! Civil rights!"
What actually went on:
"I was rushing the gate, disturbing the millions of other people in the city, when the police tried to get me to calm down I through rocks at them."
I'm all for keeping the man in check, but come on. Some jerk posting on slashdot does not make a true event. Let's see his arrest report? Let's hear from the arresting officer, etc, etc. For all we know, while he's sitting here crying foul, he was in fact totally drunk and beligerant.
Hippies really need a reality check from time to time though. For instance, I was listening to Off The Hook from 2003 and Emmanuel said something to the effect of "why we need a permit to protest is beyond me...". well here's a clue. NYC houses millions of people. You are 30,000 people [or whatever]. If you want to disturb the millions of people from doing what they want to do you'll need permission first. It's called society.
I'm not defending all people here. Yes, there are bad cops. But there are also bad people. Bad people can do just as cruel and violent things as police can. Police have powers, sure. But I can just as easily rob you of your liberty, life, etc. All it takes is the mindset to do evil and you're there.
Point is though, don't trust one sided stories. Just because some person posted it on slashdot or whatever doesn't make it true.
Like always... one side to the story. I'm sure you were calm and rational and not totally off your rocker. Right... Cuz I live in complete fear of the police ooooohh. They're out to get me!!!!
Yeah police are people and do bad things. But come on, people are people and do bad things. You were arrested for being drunk, yet you never mentioned if you actually had anything to drink. For all we know you WERE drunk and disorderly and are bitching because you think you can get away with anything. the cops are the enemy man!!!!
He was a good actor before he lost his mind that is...
Colin is a good movie actor as well. Harts war for instance is a nice movie. My point though is that using an Irishmen may not be the best lead for an american hero. He's just the latest "boy toy" of the MPAA studios. Of course I'm suring he's sad about being used, sad all the way to the bank that is...
The last few movies I've seen have been an excuse to get out of the house. That's about it.
They could show a futurama marathon on the big screen and I'd still go see it. Just for the excuse to get out.
Movies and music in general suck because like any other corrupt practice, they has been heavily marketed. I'm sorry, but at what point is Paris Hilton a properly trained singer?
Why is collin farrel [sp?] playing american hero cops? He's FUCKING IRISH!!!!
You're confusing choosing a bundle over being forced to use a bundle.
For instance, suppose you're an author, and your publisher demands you have to use Word. (hmm sounds familiar...). Now suppose you agree and go to use Word. Oh wait, Word only works in Windows. Not because technically it will only work there but because MSFT stiffles it to only work there (hint: if OpenOffice can work anywhere why can't Office?). Ok fine, so you buy a copy of windows for hundreds of dollars. Oh but wait, it comes with IE and WMP and a dozen other dumb applications you don't want or need. So now you're paying MSFT to support the IE, WMP, etc teams for things you don't actually want or need. In fact you didn't even want Windows in the first place.
The problem here is MSFT is using its otherwise independent shops to prop up the sales of Windows to lock people into a given platform. For "MS Office" to be truly competitive and offer the customers the best choices it should really be ported to Linux and MacOS [timely]. That gives us, the customers, the ability to choose tools in a free market.
Then you say, oh but you don't need to use Windows. Just use OSS. Except that MSFT locks in the file formats and APIs of its tools. They don't document the file formats used by programs YOU BOUGHT. So now if you want to compete with company A you have to use what they use, in this case Word or Excel or PP. Company A wants to work with Company B, who uses Office. so A moves to Office too. B wants to work with C, so B moved to Office forcing A to move to office forcing you to move to office, etc... It's totally viral and it's totally intentional.
MSFT is not popular because it's technically superior or just the better choice. It's popular because they have done everything in their power to lock you into their platform. secret APIs and file formats are just two of the tricks they use. They also make illegal deals with companies to bundle Windows with their hardware whether you like it or not. While in recent years it has been possible to get naked systems it's not usually straightfoward and customers are encouraged to buy the bundle whether it's in their best interests or not.
OSS is not like this. My OpenOffice documents made in Redhat are readable in Fedora, FreeBSD, WindowsXP, Gentoo Linux, etc. The C, Motif, GTK, etc APIs are all [to varying degrees] documented and consistent. My GTK+ application for FreeBSD will very likely build and run out of the box on a Gentoo box, etc, etc.
OSS gives you the power to choose what YOU want to solve your problems. MSFT strives to simplify that for you. Use Windows, use Office, use VisualStudio. What else is there?
They have had the [very rare] crash at CNN before. Back around 2000 or so I remember seeing a few weathermaps totally lock up. And iirc I have seen a BSOD on a monitor in the background of a CNN broadcast.
I already replied to this earlier in the thread [you posted essentially what someone else did...]
Anyways, I never said MacOS wasn't. Stop putting words into my posts. I said Microsoft was.
As for the OS world, they're not a monopoly because you can still choose between them. Sure distros like those from Redhat and Suse can try some lock-in tricks (Redhat is most famous for renaming symbols in the C and C++ libs) but the tools themselves are almost always platform agnostic.
Don't like Redhat? Try Gentoo. It gives you complete control over what applications go on our box. None of this "Redhat is a Gnome shop" bullshit.
Who knows how the algorithm they implemented works. Chances are the computer scientists behind it are not total asshats and they assumed the sales guy would follow the same procedure they did [e.g. to train it].
Point is, if the sales guy had tried the system out beforehand he would have noticed it not working.
That is, suppose the code is total shit [I know, big stretch for MSFT]. Then isn't it likely it would have failed during the preparation stage? If you are saying "mom" and it always comes back "aunt" you may want to cancel the presentation.
That's why I think he didn't do any prep work for the presentation.
I don't get your reply. I never said MacOS was in the clear. I don't harp on MacOS because I'm not personally forced to use it. I'm stuck using Windows for work [*] and it drives me stir crazy.
Linux distributions are free to install and the software contained in them is portable. I can use Gnome in the BSD or Linux distributions with free will. I'm not stuck to using OpenOffice [for instance] ONLY in FreeBSD. Furthermore, with the good distributions I can remove and change competing programs. Don't like Gnome? Put KDE on, or IceWM, or WindowMaker or..., Don't like bash? use tcsh or ksh or..., don't like mplayer, use totem or xine or..., etc.
Try telling Windows that you dislike IE and want all traces of it removed from the box. Try buying a Windows install that didn't bundle IE or WMP. Try asking for a discount because you don't plan on using them.
I'm sorry, but your examples are just weak. You are far more capable of making decisions in the OSS world than in Windows.
Tom
[*] To those that reply "oh you don't have to work there", well just send me rent and food cheques and I'll agree with you.
You clearly don't work for a large corporation. Sales people (who are not all bad) are typically the sort that don't really understand technology and are all juiced up to make sales. Around technology they often leap before actually finding out the facts which nets them in a world of trouble.
I seriously doubt this presentation was rehearsed. At the very least, they should have tested it in that room with that mic, etc. But in all honesty, this is going to be used by millions of people in all sorts of rooms with all sorts of mics. That shouldn't matter anyways.
Anyways, I doubt he prepared at all, that is, other than snorting cocaine off a mirror in the back room before the show.
Slashdot Mirror
Um Gentoo hardly is a flavour of the month nor is it unpopular. It's just not as newsworthy as Ubuntu as it's been essentially the same for the last half decade or so. Ubuntu is the new flavour on the block. Not saying it's bad, just that it's getting attention because people are all impressed by what essentially is Knoppix.
Tom
Yeah the sort you can't put upgrade hardware in, at least the sort you can buy yourself without shelling out 3x the cost to get custom fit bullshit.
Sometimes a nice "bulky" Antec case is just a smarter choice? That and frankly the PC just sits there, I don't fucking look at it. I look at my monitor.
And besides keyboard/mouse/sound are already colour coded on most proper motherboards. If you can't sort out where the VGA and power plugs go you should return the computer and buy a lava lamp instead.
Tom
No Gentoo upgrade path? :-)
Tom
Results would be the same. Some random asshat from a RWP [rich white party] would take office do a couple humanitarian things then proceed to rape and pillage the countries resources for their own purposes.
Question: Would the leadership be any different if they used a magic-8 ball instead?
*SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE*
Sources say no.
Tom
Is that 5MB or 5MiB? hehehehe
Tom
What new technology was developed to produce this machine?
Or was it a case of having loads of money, room and a friendly merchant at Fry's?
That's my complaint. It was different with the first Crays. Nothing like it existed before. They had to invent new technology to accomplish it. This is more a case of networking via gige and optical then stacking box upon box.
Tom
Why does everyone assume the extremes?
Why can't I both hate hippies and right-wing zealots in the government?
Tom
It wasn't a troll. I honestly believe we don't step back and say "should we do this". Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of the computers on top500.org how many of them have led to new discoveries or tested hypothesises [sp?]?
It not just computers though. Look at the number of people who subscribe to the notion that they need their own personal vehicle, bottled water, blah blah blah.
So a group built a overgrown home computer. Big deal. Let's wait and see what they accomplish with it.
Tom
That's just the point. If you want to block public roads and intefere with the lives of millions you had better have permission first. In short, who the fuck are you to block my way to work? To the movies? Airport? etc...
I had to deal with this recently when in Ottawa the farmers were protesting the governments lack of handouts by driving their tractors slowly on the highways. I think they had permits for it but it was still a pain in the ass. Took me three times longer to get to work. Do I now care [or really know about] the plight of the farmers? No. I hate their faces. I'd rather buy produce from the states as my way of protesting.
To have an organized society we have to have consensus. To have a progressive society we need disturbance. The trick though is to know the limits. You can damage your cause with unruly protesters just as easily as you can help it with an orderly permitted march.
Tom
Nuff said.
Where are the really neato results we should be getting from these? I'm tired of "Country X builds massive TeraWatt computer system." I want to read about "Country X mapped the cancer genome" or some such.
Besides, these are relatively not impressive. Sure in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s we were maturing the technology. Inventing new technology, analyzing it, etc. Now it's more of the same. Huge budget, lots of space and infiniband connections...
Show me the MFlops/Watt rating of this? Are they improving it? Are we wasting less resources? The irony of this is they pollute by wasting tons of energy, all so we can predict global warming or whatever.
Tom
Typical hippie talk.
What hippie says:
"I was using my 1st admendment rights and they arrested me! Civil rights!"
What actually went on:
"I was rushing the gate, disturbing the millions of other people in the city, when the police tried to get me to calm down I through rocks at them."
I'm all for keeping the man in check, but come on. Some jerk posting on slashdot does not make a true event. Let's see his arrest report? Let's hear from the arresting officer, etc, etc. For all we know, while he's sitting here crying foul, he was in fact totally drunk and beligerant.
Hippies really need a reality check from time to time though. For instance, I was listening to Off The Hook from 2003 and Emmanuel said something to the effect of "why we need a permit to protest is beyond me...". well here's a clue. NYC houses millions of people. You are 30,000 people [or whatever]. If you want to disturb the millions of people from doing what they want to do you'll need permission first. It's called society.
I'm not defending all people here. Yes, there are bad cops. But there are also bad people. Bad people can do just as cruel and violent things as police can. Police have powers, sure. But I can just as easily rob you of your liberty, life, etc. All it takes is the mindset to do evil and you're there.
Point is though, don't trust one sided stories. Just because some person posted it on slashdot or whatever doesn't make it true.
tom
Ouch man, seriously ouch.
I'll feel that for the rest of my days.
Tom
Like always ... one side to the story. I'm sure you were calm and rational and not totally off your rocker. Right... Cuz I live in complete fear of the police ooooohh. They're out to get me!!!!
Yeah police are people and do bad things. But come on, people are people and do bad things. You were arrested for being drunk, yet you never mentioned if you actually had anything to drink. For all we know you WERE drunk and disorderly and are bitching because you think you can get away with anything. the cops are the enemy man!!!!
Tom
Mel also played a scot ...
He was a good actor before he lost his mind that is...
Colin is a good movie actor as well. Harts war for instance is a nice movie. My point though is that using an Irishmen may not be the best lead for an american hero. He's just the latest "boy toy" of the MPAA studios. Of course I'm suring he's sad about being used, sad all the way to the bank that is...
Tom
The last few movies I've seen have been an excuse to get out of the house. That's about it.
They could show a futurama marathon on the big screen and I'd still go see it. Just for the excuse to get out.
Movies and music in general suck because like any other corrupt practice, they has been heavily marketed. I'm sorry, but at what point is Paris Hilton a properly trained singer?
Why is collin farrel [sp?] playing american hero cops? He's FUCKING IRISH!!!!
Tom
Welcome to two decades ago.
Tom
Microsofts Demise: See Titanic.
Titanic: 2nd worst civilian disaster next to the demise of Microsoft.
Tom
You're confusing choosing a bundle over being forced to use a bundle.
For instance, suppose you're an author, and your publisher demands you have to use Word. (hmm sounds familiar...). Now suppose you agree and go to use Word. Oh wait, Word only works in Windows. Not because technically it will only work there but because MSFT stiffles it to only work there (hint: if OpenOffice can work anywhere why can't Office?). Ok fine, so you buy a copy of windows for hundreds of dollars. Oh but wait, it comes with IE and WMP and a dozen other dumb applications you don't want or need. So now you're paying MSFT to support the IE, WMP, etc teams for things you don't actually want or need. In fact you didn't even want Windows in the first place.
The problem here is MSFT is using its otherwise independent shops to prop up the sales of Windows to lock people into a given platform. For "MS Office" to be truly competitive and offer the customers the best choices it should really be ported to Linux and MacOS [timely]. That gives us, the customers, the ability to choose tools in a free market.
Then you say, oh but you don't need to use Windows. Just use OSS. Except that MSFT locks in the file formats and APIs of its tools. They don't document the file formats used by programs YOU BOUGHT. So now if you want to compete with company A you have to use what they use, in this case Word or Excel or PP. Company A wants to work with Company B, who uses Office. so A moves to Office too. B wants to work with C, so B moved to Office forcing A to move to office forcing you to move to office, etc... It's totally viral and it's totally intentional.
MSFT is not popular because it's technically superior or just the better choice. It's popular because they have done everything in their power to lock you into their platform. secret APIs and file formats are just two of the tricks they use. They also make illegal deals with companies to bundle Windows with their hardware whether you like it or not. While in recent years it has been possible to get naked systems it's not usually straightfoward and customers are encouraged to buy the bundle whether it's in their best interests or not.
OSS is not like this. My OpenOffice documents made in Redhat are readable in Fedora, FreeBSD, WindowsXP, Gentoo Linux, etc. The C, Motif, GTK, etc APIs are all [to varying degrees] documented and consistent. My GTK+ application for FreeBSD will very likely build and run out of the box on a Gentoo box, etc, etc.
OSS gives you the power to choose what YOU want to solve your problems. MSFT strives to simplify that for you. Use Windows, use Office, use VisualStudio. What else is there?
Tom
Um, no. The claim of an invention is pronounced "pay-tent" in the UK. I routinely talk with people from that part of the world.
Also the phonetic pronounciation of the word is actually pay-tent. Us north american folks are just crazy.
Tom
They have had the [very rare] crash at CNN before. Back around 2000 or so I remember seeing a few weathermaps totally lock up. And iirc I have seen a BSOD on a monitor in the background of a CNN broadcast.
That said, they are very much a MSFT-shop.
Tom
I already replied to this earlier in the thread [you posted essentially what someone else did...]
Anyways, I never said MacOS wasn't. Stop putting words into my posts. I said Microsoft was.
As for the OS world, they're not a monopoly because you can still choose between them. Sure distros like those from Redhat and Suse can try some lock-in tricks (Redhat is most famous for renaming symbols in the C and C++ libs) but the tools themselves are almost always platform agnostic.
Don't like Redhat? Try Gentoo. It gives you complete control over what applications go on our box. None of this "Redhat is a Gnome shop" bullshit.
Tom
Who knows how the algorithm they implemented works. Chances are the computer scientists behind it are not total asshats and they assumed the sales guy would follow the same procedure they did [e.g. to train it].
Point is, if the sales guy had tried the system out beforehand he would have noticed it not working.
That is, suppose the code is total shit [I know, big stretch for MSFT]. Then isn't it likely it would have failed during the preparation stage? If you are saying "mom" and it always comes back "aunt" you may want to cancel the presentation.
That's why I think he didn't do any prep work for the presentation.
Tom
I don't get your reply. I never said MacOS was in the clear. I don't harp on MacOS because I'm not personally forced to use it. I'm stuck using Windows for work [*] and it drives me stir crazy.
..., Don't like bash? use tcsh or ksh or ..., don't like mplayer, use totem or xine or ..., etc.
Linux distributions are free to install and the software contained in them is portable. I can use Gnome in the BSD or Linux distributions with free will. I'm not stuck to using OpenOffice [for instance] ONLY in FreeBSD. Furthermore, with the good distributions I can remove and change competing programs. Don't like Gnome? Put KDE on, or IceWM, or WindowMaker or
Try telling Windows that you dislike IE and want all traces of it removed from the box. Try buying a Windows install that didn't bundle IE or WMP. Try asking for a discount because you don't plan on using them.
I'm sorry, but your examples are just weak. You are far more capable of making decisions in the OSS world than in Windows.
Tom
[*] To those that reply "oh you don't have to work there", well just send me rent and food cheques and I'll agree with you.
Those are painful to watch. As much as I hate MSFT I still feel some empathy for them... Damn, poor gates playing with the remote...
Tom
You clearly don't work for a large corporation. Sales people (who are not all bad) are typically the sort that don't really understand technology and are all juiced up to make sales. Around technology they often leap before actually finding out the facts which nets them in a world of trouble.
I seriously doubt this presentation was rehearsed. At the very least, they should have tested it in that room with that mic, etc. But in all honesty, this is going to be used by millions of people in all sorts of rooms with all sorts of mics. That shouldn't matter anyways.
Anyways, I doubt he prepared at all, that is, other than snorting cocaine off a mirror in the back room before the show.
Tom