Oh? And what does Linux need? Only open source programs that are free? Are you saying that people can't make an honest living programming and selling their closed source software? I agree that it sucks that it uses a closed file format, but that's the way it works sometimes. With any luck maybe that format will be opened some day. Does it matter though? They can't be worse than Microsoft who makes it a point to constantly change their formats mainly just to screw everyone else.
Realistically I think you might be comming at this from the wrong angle (as many of us tend to do). What does Linux need? Who cares? They didn't purchase those licences because they neede Linux, they purchaced it because they needed superior software that did what they wanted it to. If Hancom makes a better product and they sell it, then more power to them. I'd like to see more corporations drop their closed source ways too, but right now that's not going to happen, and unless some of these companies start making things for Linux, Linux will be sitting in obscurity for quite some time. If open source alternatives are going to take over, then they must be better products - and unfortunatly right now Star/K office only get "close but no cigar". Right now open source is only making strides because of those products which truley are better, like Apache. Closed source isn't all that great, but right now Linux could probably use a small crutch like this. I mean really, what's the alternative: use MS Office on Windows like every other goverment...
I'd say those are exactly the experiences I've had. At the place I work we have a box that was set up for months with IIS for the company intranet. Luckily I wasn't there for that part, as I hear that it took weeks to get it to filally work right. Now the problem is that they can't really get it to do much else. Not long after there was a linux box installed running Appache. Both the NT and linux box are needed for other things - the web server stuff is just extra baggage.
Then the word came down to me that I was to start working on the company intranet. I had no experience with IIS or Apache so it was pretty much whatever I found to be easier. With IIS I found a cute dynamically generated template from the start. The source of the pages looked like a mess of ASP stuff that I really didn't want to deal with. Actually trying to configure the thing wasn't much easier with the obscure/non descriptive names. Updating the thing didn't work very well either as the Microsoft wizards tended to break the things that were actually working.
In contrast Apache only gives you the "you're running Apache - have a nice day" page. I'm okay with config files, and I certainly found it relatively easy to setup with the well commented files. Thus the Linux side continues to grow and become more useful every day. I'm not neccesarily against IIS (although I'd never leave a server running it directly exposed to the internet), but I think it leaves a lot to be desired when compaired to the free alternative.
Like the other worms (code red, nimda) that didn't infect NT? Security is more than running junk with user permissions. While users of NT might not be as prone to spread it, the virus itself might use other means (like the aforesaid worms) to spread itself. Who knows what in the hell is going to happen once there is a server version of Windows XP (gag).
An alternative thought to this is that Windows 2000, being a much more mature OS than NT, has taken over an adequate market share that unix has been pushed out of that niche
Actually, from the statistics I've seen; NT hasn't really gained much market share at all. Unix has been pushed out of the x86 market, but that's due to Linux and BSD. Hard to compete with extremely good open source OSes that work every well on x86 machines, and are FREE.
Is this for every package? I've seen this myself on a package or two off of the cdrom (but not every one). If you are doing an install off of a cdrom, you might have a bad CD, or your cdrom is having problems reading it. I had huge problems installing off of a CDRW (where it would cough and spit out errors), but when I burned the iso to a CDR everything worked fine. Anyway, you might try burning a new cd.
Actually I think there is one category that supersedes all those: "I think I have a virus". I don't know how many times I've heard "My computer must have a virus or something because it crashes a lot now". I guess they just assume that things aren't supposed to crash, but if it isn't them, and it isn't the program, it must be "something else".
Well, the dinosaurs as a family lasted for over a hundred million years
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't alligators, and crocodiles been around for something like 300+ million? I guess that sort of depends on how you define a dinosaur. Not to mention they could all be dead within the next 30 years...
True, but it also seems to me that processor speed is becomming more and more irrelevant. Sure it's faster, but can we even feed the thing anymore? We left the bus speed in the dust. RAM is slowly creaking along, and accessing the hard drive is an absolute catastropy in terms of performance. I'm sure the same people are bitching for the same reason that they've always been. But the way things are today; they're probably more right than they used to be.
Personally I really don't care about processor speed any more. My 1.4Ghz Athlon is plenty fast for me. But keep in mind that the processor does a lot more than it used to. Pop open my Pentium 133 and you find a LARGE card for just about everything. Nowdays you get these skimpy little cards that make the main CPU do everything for them.
But really, if someone gave me the option of a 10Ghz computer, or a computer with twice the bus speed/bandwidth - I'd take the better bus any day.
As everyone says here, MIS is more about buisness. The college I went to had a few courses that crossed over between CS and MIS. So about half way into the semester we get a fairly trivial programming assignment. The night before it was due I happened to be in the computer cluster, and nearby there were about 7 MIS people huddled around a computer trying to figure out how to open a file in C++ (third year students mind you!). From what I've seen, MIS people (in college anyway) can't code their way out of a paper bag. Generally I think you could do a lot more with a CS degree, and a few shiny certifacations.
that's why I change the colors on the root shell to be as painful as possible. Lots of bright green does the trick. You tend to never forget your root that way, and try to stay away from being logged in as root.
I guess my question would be, why aren't they using a BSD variant as a base? It's under a 'do what you want with it' licence, and NetBSD has already been ported to everything but a hoover vacuume cleaner (maybe that too). To me this already sounds like vaporware... making an OS from scratch is one thing, but getting 3 corperations to agree on where to start seems like it would be a miricle in and of itself.
Sex is a Good Thing, if it wasn't there, I wouldn't be writing this and you would not be reading it either.
Sex is a bad thing too - else a significant percent of Africa wouldn't be facing a death sentance. There's also rape and kiddie porn to consider.
Violence is a Bad Thing, it kills people. (Colombia High-Shcool anyone?)
If violence is a bad thing, then why does everyone want to see it? Does that mean we're all inherently evil?
What it all comes down to is moderation in everything. We don't need to see hard core porn or torture through vivisection. Repressed (as some would call it) as movies in the 50's were, they had lots of romance and killing... just not so much graphic detail in it. Some things are better left to the imagination in my opinion.
But yeah, priorities in North America are majorly screwed up...
You could probably filter for the message if you were clever... but then again maybe the message got through because of the 137216 bytes of Sircam in front...
And the irony here is that people with PC's have been laughing for years at the Mac people using paper clips to get their disks out, and now people buy a MS Xbox and use one to eject games and DVDs...
well some of us tend to have old computers just sitting around. It's true that I could toss out my old computer and buy a new one thats far more powerful for about $650, but that's an awful waste. I have a P133. Basically I can't really upgrade it. I'm not going to spend money on a new processor. It uses EDO ram which I don't have any more of (despite the fact that I have SDRAM all over). And it has mostly ISA cards which most newer boards don't support. It's a perfectly good computer, but to use it you really have to choose wisely what to put on it. And remember that the 1.6Ghz Athlon you buy today, will also be a heap of junk in a few years. What you learn now will help you later... if it doesn't start on fire first, but that's a different issue entirely.
For my P133 I tried Gnome and KDE a while ago, and it looked nice, but was horribly slow. Years later I imagine it's only worse. Since then I've been satisfied with Afterstep. It's light, fairly easy to configure, has interesting applets. As far as the look goes, it can indeed look pretty nice, although you're not going to get tons of fancy effects.. You still might want to check it out.
Well I'd venture to say that the desktop doesn't need to be standardised at all. I mean we're talking *nix here: do it your own way. If I want my windows to hop around on fire, then that's for me. No one forcing each other to do it the "right way".
On the other hand there really does need to be some standardization in the guts of the desktop enviornment. Looking at what all these WMs and you see that about the only thing they have in common is X (which to me seems like a pile of crap, but works extremely well). In my opinion, the thing that needs to happen is that X needs to have more extended, standardized functionality. It would probably require a re-write, but I think X could use a re-write anyway to dump a lot of legacy code for those 15 people who might still be using some of that extremely obscure hardware. The core needs to be the same, but what the desktop enviornment does with it at the end should be up to the enviornment. Of course as long as I can use Gnome apps on KDE and the other way around, I really can't complain too much.
I agree with you, but I would still like to see linux gain around 10% in the desktop arena. From a web developers perspective I'd see this as about the only way the web will stay 'free'. Just so that people (other web developers) begin to realize that there are more browsers than MSIE. And so that web pages stop using proprietary fonts and such.
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This is NOT what Linux needs
Oh? And what does Linux need? Only open source programs that are free? Are you saying that people can't make an honest living programming and selling their closed source software? I agree that it sucks that it uses a closed file format, but that's the way it works sometimes. With any luck maybe that format will be opened some day. Does it matter though? They can't be worse than Microsoft who makes it a point to constantly change their formats mainly just to screw everyone else.
Realistically I think you might be comming at this from the wrong angle (as many of us tend to do). What does Linux need? Who cares? They didn't purchase those licences because they neede Linux, they purchaced it because they needed superior software that did what they wanted it to. If Hancom makes a better product and they sell it, then more power to them. I'd like to see more corporations drop their closed source ways too, but right now that's not going to happen, and unless some of these companies start making things for Linux, Linux will be sitting in obscurity for quite some time. If open source alternatives are going to take over, then they must be better products - and unfortunatly right now Star/K office only get "close but no cigar". Right now open source is only making strides because of those products which truley are better, like Apache. Closed source isn't all that great, but right now Linux could probably use a small crutch like this. I mean really, what's the alternative: use MS Office on Windows like every other goverment...
I'd say those are exactly the experiences I've had. At the place I work we have a box that was set up for months with IIS for the company intranet. Luckily I wasn't there for that part, as I hear that it took weeks to get it to filally work right. Now the problem is that they can't really get it to do much else. Not long after there was a linux box installed running Appache. Both the NT and linux box are needed for other things - the web server stuff is just extra baggage.
Then the word came down to me that I was to start working on the company intranet. I had no experience with IIS or Apache so it was pretty much whatever I found to be easier. With IIS I found a cute dynamically generated template from the start. The source of the pages looked like a mess of ASP stuff that I really didn't want to deal with. Actually trying to configure the thing wasn't much easier with the obscure/non descriptive names. Updating the thing didn't work very well either as the Microsoft wizards tended to break the things that were actually working.
In contrast Apache only gives you the "you're running Apache - have a nice day" page. I'm okay with config files, and I certainly found it relatively easy to setup with the well commented files. Thus the Linux side continues to grow and become more useful every day. I'm not neccesarily against IIS (although I'd never leave a server running it directly exposed to the internet), but I think it leaves a lot to be desired when compaired to the free alternative.
Like the other worms (code red, nimda) that didn't infect NT? Security is more than running junk with user permissions. While users of NT might not be as prone to spread it, the virus itself might use other means (like the aforesaid worms) to spread itself. Who knows what in the hell is going to happen once there is a server version of Windows XP (gag).
An alternative thought to this is that Windows 2000, being a much more mature OS than NT, has taken over an adequate market share that unix has been pushed out of that niche
Actually, from the statistics I've seen; NT hasn't really gained much market share at all. Unix has been pushed out of the x86 market, but that's due to Linux and BSD. Hard to compete with extremely good open source OSes that work every well on x86 machines, and are FREE.
Does this come with a boot floppy? Considering the junk floppies I have around (and new ones aren't much better) I could use one.
Is this for every package? I've seen this myself on a package or two off of the cdrom (but not every one). If you are doing an install off of a cdrom, you might have a bad CD, or your cdrom is having problems reading it. I had huge problems installing off of a CDRW (where it would cough and spit out errors), but when I burned the iso to a CDR everything worked fine. Anyway, you might try burning a new cd.
Actually I think there is one category that supersedes all those: "I think I have a virus". I don't know how many times I've heard "My computer must have a virus or something because it crashes a lot now". I guess they just assume that things aren't supposed to crash, but if it isn't them, and it isn't the program, it must be "something else".
Well, the dinosaurs as a family lasted for over a hundred million years
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't alligators, and crocodiles been around for something like 300+ million? I guess that sort of depends on how you define a dinosaur. Not to mention they could all be dead within the next 30 years...
True, but it also seems to me that processor speed is becomming more and more irrelevant. Sure it's faster, but can we even feed the thing anymore? We left the bus speed in the dust. RAM is slowly creaking along, and accessing the hard drive is an absolute catastropy in terms of performance. I'm sure the same people are bitching for the same reason that they've always been. But the way things are today; they're probably more right than they used to be.
They were afraid that if they took the fans off, that they couldn't run away fast enough.
Personally I really don't care about processor speed any more. My 1.4Ghz Athlon is plenty fast for me. But keep in mind that the processor does a lot more than it used to. Pop open my Pentium 133 and you find a LARGE card for just about everything. Nowdays you get these skimpy little cards that make the main CPU do everything for them.
But really, if someone gave me the option of a 10Ghz computer, or a computer with twice the bus speed/bandwidth - I'd take the better bus any day.
As everyone says here, MIS is more about buisness. The college I went to had a few courses that crossed over between CS and MIS. So about half way into the semester we get a fairly trivial programming assignment. The night before it was due I happened to be in the computer cluster, and nearby there were about 7 MIS people huddled around a computer trying to figure out how to open a file in C++ (third year students mind you!). From what I've seen, MIS people (in college anyway) can't code their way out of a paper bag. Generally I think you could do a lot more with a CS degree, and a few shiny certifacations.
that's why I change the colors on the root shell to be as painful as possible. Lots of bright green does the trick. You tend to never forget your root that way, and try to stay away from being logged in as root.
or you just use 'su' more often..
I guess my question would be, why aren't they using a BSD variant as a base? It's under a 'do what you want with it' licence, and NetBSD has already been ported to everything but a hoover vacuume cleaner (maybe that too). To me this already sounds like vaporware... making an OS from scratch is one thing, but getting 3 corperations to agree on where to start seems like it would be a miricle in and of itself.
Sex is a Good Thing, if it wasn't there, I wouldn't be writing this and you would not be reading it either.
... just not so much graphic detail in it. Some things are better left to the imagination in my opinion.
Sex is a bad thing too - else a significant percent of Africa wouldn't be facing a death sentance. There's also rape and kiddie porn to consider.
Violence is a Bad Thing, it kills people. (Colombia High-Shcool anyone?)
If violence is a bad thing, then why does everyone want to see it? Does that mean we're all inherently evil?
What it all comes down to is moderation in everything. We don't need to see hard core porn or torture through vivisection. Repressed (as some would call it) as movies in the 50's were, they had lots of romance and killing
But yeah, priorities in North America are majorly screwed up...
um.... you can configure windows to use one click to. But then again being able to grep for porn is a feature in and of itself =P
Well on the flip side I might go to AOTC if there is a LOTR trailer...
naw, screw that. I'd rather wait for the movie to come out...
You could probably filter for the message if you were clever... but then again maybe the message got through because of the 137216 bytes of Sircam in front...
and strangely enough I've asked some MS Windows users similar questions...
Okay, that was flamebait =P
And the irony here is that people with PC's have been laughing for years at the Mac people using paper clips to get their disks out, and now people buy a MS Xbox and use one to eject games and DVDs...
well some of us tend to have old computers just sitting around. It's true that I could toss out my old computer and buy a new one thats far more powerful for about $650, but that's an awful waste. I have a P133. Basically I can't really upgrade it. I'm not going to spend money on a new processor. It uses EDO ram which I don't have any more of (despite the fact that I have SDRAM all over). And it has mostly ISA cards which most newer boards don't support. It's a perfectly good computer, but to use it you really have to choose wisely what to put on it. And remember that the 1.6Ghz Athlon you buy today, will also be a heap of junk in a few years. What you learn now will help you later... if it doesn't start on fire first, but that's a different issue entirely.
For my P133 I tried Gnome and KDE a while ago, and it looked nice, but was horribly slow. Years later I imagine it's only worse. Since then I've been satisfied with Afterstep. It's light, fairly easy to configure, has interesting applets. As far as the look goes, it can indeed look pretty nice, although you're not going to get tons of fancy effects.. You still might want to check it out.
just what we need. Open source developed under the influence.
Well I'd venture to say that the desktop doesn't need to be standardised at all. I mean we're talking *nix here: do it your own way. If I want my windows to hop around on fire, then that's for me. No one forcing each other to do it the "right way".
On the other hand there really does need to be some standardization in the guts of the desktop enviornment. Looking at what all these WMs and you see that about the only thing they have in common is X (which to me seems like a pile of crap, but works extremely well). In my opinion, the thing that needs to happen is that X needs to have more extended, standardized functionality. It would probably require a re-write, but I think X could use a re-write anyway to dump a lot of legacy code for those 15 people who might still be using some of that extremely obscure hardware. The core needs to be the same, but what the desktop enviornment does with it at the end should be up to the enviornment. Of course as long as I can use Gnome apps on KDE and the other way around, I really can't complain too much.
why? why should linux take over?
I agree with you, but I would still like to see linux gain around 10% in the desktop arena. From a web developers perspective I'd see this as about the only way the web will stay 'free'. Just so that people (other web developers) begin to realize that there are more browsers than MSIE. And so that web pages stop using proprietary fonts and such.