And now freeserve is blocked on half the RBL lists around (including my uni, plymouth) so I guess their "substancial" anti-spam features worked about as well as the rest of the company.
as a toll free ISP Freeserve got more than its fair share of mail bombing jerks and didn't really want to end up with the reputation of having the most clueless users
Having worked for the Dixons corp/company/movement/cult I can say without shadow of a doubt that this wasn't the reason. Anyone in that company who spent a single cent for the good of the customers would be sent off for re-education. Remember only about 5-10% of their customers would even know what SPAM is. Most of the freeserve users never chose or signed up for it, it just came pre-installed on their pcworld/dixons/currys PC.
That said if Exim works for them its probably a good advert, maybe get some better filters though:)
Most people in Europe think it was a good thing to get rid of someone who was a Very Bad Man (tm). We're not too bothered about secondary motives
Agreed on the first part but totally disagreed on the 2nd, as do the millions of people who took to the streets in protest all over Europe.
Now I know this is a troll.
for suggesting that the USA's allies were its allies? where do you think the statue of liberty came from exactly.
Europe definately is jealous of the US might. As for Europe being opposed to all wars, England didn't hesitate to defend the Falklands after being invaded by Argentina.
yea great example, that war was 94.5% about the oil that the falklands entitles us to (under the south pole), 5% about getting the public behind thatcher and 0.5% about liberation/democracy. As a Brit you should know this, especially before you start using it as an example of how "righteous" we are. And you talk about people sticking their heads in the sand...
I know in Britain we've never had anything like the Vietnam war.
erm, the wars going on in north africa that we were up to our necks in make vietnam look like a walk in the park, speak to anyone who was serving out there and they will tell you stories that would not even be shown in horror films. We have also had various wars/invasions/battles over the last thousands of years that the USA could not have seen due to its age, this was the point the parent was making.
Well France would know, having provided the WMD to Iraq in the first place.
Along with Britain and the USA...whats your point?
Sorry to feed the flames but the parent poster had it spot on and you are the one with your head stuck in the sand. None of this information is hidden from you being a Brit so you have no excuse.
They were until the Americans and the Brits kicked them out because we got fedup of our troops and equipment sitting around getting clogged up with sand (well that was the official line from Blair, dunno about GWB).
In both Iraq and Afghanistan, this has changed.
What exactly has changed in Afghanistan? There is still zero security outside of Kabul and not a huge amount inside it. You just don't hear about it, like you never heard about it before 9/11. This makes for interesting reading.
You have no proof that the US is doing anything but what's best for the Iraqi people.
In British society we have an age old law that states "a man is guilty until proven innocent". The USA I believe also has this law. Nobody has to prove that what the US did was bad. They are the ones acting as executioner here, they are the ones who should prove their own actions to be right.
These are among our oldest beliefs, those that our societies are founded upon, and now to follow them is considered "un-patriotic". Get the Fuck out of here.
Now, if you were using an example where data were vandalized, stolen, etc. and used a similar example I would probably agree with you.
The data is being stolen. Or it could have been. Because it is just information there is no way to tell 100% that it has not been looked at by the person who broke in. I think this is where the house/car analogies break down.
That data could be client information, it could be financial information, it could be anything at all. Companies are obliged to keep these things private, often by law and certainly by ethics and business sense. Therefore when they know that systems holding that information have been comprimised they must take action which will incur extra costs to their normal operation.
Yes they should have secured the boxes to start with, and perhaps they were negligent for not doing so, but the law says unauthorised access of computers is illegal which would put the costs of that illegal action on the person instigating it.
It is not about physical damage to the property. It is about the fact that those machines function to provide secure storage for the data on them. When that is comprimised in any way then action must be taken otherwise the company would either risk loosing customers or being sued.
Your analogies aren't really close to this. One way they might be is if you had your credit card or bank documents sat in plain view (or even hidden) in your car/appartment in the situations you describe. Then you have to take the day off work to change all of the details. That is how you lose money.
This comes up every time this kinda story gets posted.
Even if you break into a machine and touch nothing, even logfiles, you are costing that company money.
how? well that company has to do something about the hacked server (lots don't, they should) such as re-install, spend time fixing it, check logs, run extra checks on any other servers on the network. This all takes someones time and costs someone money.
Think about it from a personal point of view, you start a webhosting company and your server gets owned...you have to fix it, and since you don't know to what extent it has been owned that either means at least a few hours of investigating or more likely a complete re-install from backups. This all costs time/money. Whether that server should have been more secure in the first place is a whole other argument.
This company should then be able to prosecute you for the money you have cost it. There is nothing unfair about that. Their business is selling a service which you have interfered with.
If that company then goes and charges $20million for 3 hours of admin time re-installing I certainly wouldn't think that fair.
But at the end of the day if you don't wanna get burnt don't play with matches..... If you don't wanna risk getting sued for millions of dollars then don't break into corporate networks.
What about your staff wasting large amounts of their time with lost data, recovering information, making extra backups due to system problems, losing their workstation for a reinstall one day out of every X, spending lots of extra money and time to upgrade and fix problems that should never have been present in the first place....
Most companies SHOULD be relying on their IT department to keep them in the black since it is probably their largest investment other than properties and wages.
This is the daily mirror we're talking about. Anything above kindergarten is philosophical for their readers, why is slashdot quoting UK tabloid junk press now.
When you talk about "fixing" NAT, in your specific case, of someone who is coding applications that require the remote IP address to be unique, that is true.
there's no way to fix NAT without having a global address space.
Only if you think its broken. imo it does a good job of dealing with the supposed shortage of global address space.
I would assume that a large amount (majority?) of NAT users do not have any of these problems. If its an office you dont want end-to-end transparency or any of this other junk, far better to have those workstations hidden away behind a firewall with unroutable addresses. I'm using NAT at home for a few years and have yet to come across any problems larger than forwarding ports within "normal" internet use.
I agree that IPV6 would be a better way to do it, but I'm not about to spend a single cent of this companies money to use it when NAT is perfect for us, especially not when there is actually plenty of ipv4 space left, just reserved by the same people telling us there is a shortage.
In today's business climate, we can't imagine migrating without a financial incentive to do so.
Well this company refuses to spend out any money to investigate ipv6. Yes there is an IP shortage. And do you know what causes it? Primarily IANA who are holding about 1/3rd of the total IPV4 address space in reserve.
There are php scripts that do just this. You just copy one class file (about 30 lines of code) to your web directory and paste about 5 lines of php into your html wherever you want the rss feed to go.
Yea that image quality reduction is a royal pain in the ass.
We have one customer we made a website for who uses AOL, his website contains a lot of pictures that ALL look totally shit once the AOL proxy has compressed them. Does anyone know any way of avoiding it? (other than not using aol:P)
It was lucky for us that our customer (non-techie) was able to come into our office and see that we actually were using high resolution images and it was just his ISP making the site look shit. It isn't so lucky that a perfectly good website will now look shitty to everyone on AOL because of their own setup, and most of them will assume its the fault of the site/designers.
Ironic you posting in a thread about anti spam with a handy piece of anti-spam software yet your sig is advertising SMS spam and your website has "email marketing" as one of your main services. I dunno about anyone else but I'm too scared to try cloudmark now. Would they be a client of yours by any chance?:P
Re:I don't get the whole Mitnick thing
on
Kevin Free
·
· Score: 1
unfortunately it doesn't take a whole load of brains to read the docs and use dsniff.
While this particular tool probably wasn't available to Kevin I personally always believed that a truly good hacker would and could never be famous, because nobody would ever know who they are. You might hear about what they did, but if you get their identity it generally means they fucked something up.
Slashdot Mirror
And now freeserve is blocked on half the RBL lists around (including my uni, plymouth) so I guess their "substancial" anti-spam features worked about as well as the rest of the company.
:)
as a toll free ISP Freeserve got more than its fair share of mail bombing jerks and didn't really want to end up with the reputation of having the most clueless users
Having worked for the Dixons corp/company/movement/cult I can say without shadow of a doubt that this wasn't the reason. Anyone in that company who spent a single cent for the good of the customers would be sent off for re-education. Remember only about 5-10% of their customers would even know what SPAM is. Most of the freeserve users never chose or signed up for it, it just came pre-installed on their pcworld/dixons/currys PC.
That said if Exim works for them its probably a good advert, maybe get some better filters though
ewps yea, typo of the century there. sorry about that, the cheque is in the post :(
Most people in Europe think it was a good thing to get rid of someone who was a Very Bad Man (tm). We're not too bothered about secondary motives
Agreed on the first part but totally disagreed on the 2nd, as do the millions of people who took to the streets in protest all over Europe.
Now I know this is a troll.
for suggesting that the USA's allies were its allies? where do you think the statue of liberty came from exactly.
Europe definately is jealous of the US might. As for Europe being opposed to all wars, England didn't hesitate to defend the Falklands after being invaded by Argentina.
yea great example, that war was 94.5% about the oil that the falklands entitles us to (under the south pole), 5% about getting the public behind thatcher and 0.5% about liberation/democracy. As a Brit you should know this, especially before you start using it as an example of how "righteous" we are. And you talk about people sticking their heads in the sand...
I know in Britain we've never had anything like the Vietnam war.
erm, the wars going on in north africa that we were up to our necks in make vietnam look like a walk in the park, speak to anyone who was serving out there and they will tell you stories that would not even be shown in horror films. We have also had various wars/invasions/battles over the last thousands of years that the USA could not have seen due to its age, this was the point the parent was making.
Well France would know, having provided the WMD to Iraq in the first place.
Along with Britain and the USA...whats your point?
Sorry to feed the flames but the parent poster had it spot on and you are the one with your head stuck in the sand. None of this information is hidden from you being a Brit so you have no excuse.
They weren't doing their job.
They were until the Americans and the Brits kicked them out because we got fedup of our troops and equipment sitting around getting clogged up with sand (well that was the official line from Blair, dunno about GWB).
In both Iraq and Afghanistan, this has changed.
What exactly has changed in Afghanistan? There is still zero security outside of Kabul and not a huge amount inside it. You just don't hear about it, like you never heard about it before 9/11. This makes for interesting reading.
You have no proof that the US is doing anything but what's best for the Iraqi people.
In British society we have an age old law that states "a man is guilty until proven innocent". The USA I believe also has this law. Nobody has to prove that what the US did was bad. They are the ones acting as executioner here, they are the ones who should prove their own actions to be right.
These are among our oldest beliefs, those that our societies are founded upon, and now to follow them is considered "un-patriotic". Get the Fuck out of here.
....did I just see someone mention "Nixon" and "moderate foreign policy" in the same sentance??
I wish FreeBSD had something that cool
/usr/src/sys/ufs/ufs/README.acls.
I understand filesystem ACL's are coming in fbsd-5.
I'm not sure how they compare to lids but if you have fbsd 5.0 you can read about them in
this page describes the openbsd port so might be useful.
And of course theres always trusted bsd
I think you actually said it best yourself:
Now, if you were using an example where data were vandalized, stolen, etc. and used a similar example I would probably agree with you.
The data is being stolen. Or it could have been. Because it is just information there is no way to tell 100% that it has not been looked at by the person who broke in. I think this is where the house/car analogies break down.
That data could be client information, it could be financial information, it could be anything at all. Companies are obliged to keep these things private, often by law and certainly by ethics and business sense. Therefore when they know that systems holding that information have been comprimised they must take action which will incur extra costs to their normal operation.
Yes they should have secured the boxes to start with, and perhaps they were negligent for not doing so, but the law says unauthorised access of computers is illegal which would put the costs of that illegal action on the person instigating it.
You are missing the point.
It is not about physical damage to the property. It is about the fact that those machines function to provide secure storage for the data on them. When that is comprimised in any way then action must be taken otherwise the company would either risk loosing customers or being sued.
Your analogies aren't really close to this. One way they might be is if you had your credit card or bank documents sat in plain view (or even hidden) in your car/appartment in the situations you describe. Then you have to take the day off work to change all of the details. That is how you lose money.
This comes up every time this kinda story gets posted.
Even if you break into a machine and touch nothing, even logfiles, you are costing that company money.
how? well that company has to do something about the hacked server (lots don't, they should) such as re-install, spend time fixing it, check logs, run extra checks on any other servers on the network. This all takes someones time and costs someone money.
Think about it from a personal point of view, you start a webhosting company and your server gets owned...you have to fix it, and since you don't know to what extent it has been owned that either means at least a few hours of investigating or more likely a complete re-install from backups. This all costs time/money. Whether that server should have been more secure in the first place is a whole other argument.
This company should then be able to prosecute you for the money you have cost it. There is nothing unfair about that. Their business is selling a service which you have interfered with.
If that company then goes and charges $20million for 3 hours of admin time re-installing I certainly wouldn't think that fair.
But at the end of the day if you don't wanna get burnt don't play with matches..... If you don't wanna risk getting sued for millions of dollars then don't break into corporate networks.
Also have you seen any really interesting/unusual/highly skilled break-ins that are worth talking about, or is it just all ./<iddies.
What about your staff wasting large amounts of their time with lost data, recovering information, making extra backups due to system problems, losing their workstation for a reinstall one day out of every X, spending lots of extra money and time to upgrade and fix problems that should never have been present in the first place....
Most companies SHOULD be relying on their IT department to keep them in the black since it is probably their largest investment other than properties and wages.
...microsoft counterstrike.....
:-)
they sum up my only reason left to use their products
Removing tool/menu/status bars from popups is a javascript function that is also present in mozilla and any other relatively new browser.
You actually have to specifically tell the popup script to draw these bars and even to make the window resizable, blame javascript not IE.
Subtle philosophy?
:)
This is the daily mirror we're talking about. Anything above kindergarten is philosophical for their readers, why is slashdot quoting UK tabloid junk press now.
Whats next, the world weekley news....?
Thats the joys of the modern business world.
If a company can make enough noise it can become huge without even having a product or taking a single cent from customers.
When you talk about "fixing" NAT, in your specific case, of someone who is coding applications that require the remote IP address to be unique, that is true.
there's no way to fix NAT without having a global address space.
Only if you think its broken. imo it does a good job of dealing with the supposed shortage of global address space.
I would assume that a large amount (majority?) of NAT users do not have any of these problems. If its an office you dont want end-to-end transparency or any of this other junk, far better to have those workstations hidden away behind a firewall with unroutable addresses. I'm using NAT at home for a few years and have yet to come across any problems larger than forwarding ports within "normal" internet use.
I agree that IPV6 would be a better way to do it, but I'm not about to spend a single cent of this companies money to use it when NAT is perfect for us, especially not when there is actually plenty of ipv4 space left, just reserved by the same people telling us there is a shortage.
In today's business climate, we can't imagine migrating without a financial incentive to do so.
Well this company refuses to spend out any money to investigate ipv6. Yes there is an IP shortage. And do you know what causes it? Primarily IANA who are holding about 1/3rd of the total IPV4 address space in reserve.
dont believe me? check this.
There are php scripts that do just this. You just copy one class file (about 30 lines of code) to your web directory and paste about 5 lines of php into your html wherever you want the rss feed to go.
No offence, but you cannot have looked very hard.
you can if its emacs :>
*ducks*
Especially after you upgrade to PHP 4.3.1 which was released with a fix for a serious CGI vulnerability :)
advisory from php.net
Yea that image quality reduction is a royal pain in the ass.
:P)
We have one customer we made a website for who uses AOL, his website contains a lot of pictures that ALL look totally shit once the AOL proxy has compressed them. Does anyone know any way of avoiding it? (other than not using aol
It was lucky for us that our customer (non-techie) was able to come into our office and see that we actually were using high resolution images and it was just his ISP making the site look shit. It isn't so lucky that a perfectly good website will now look shitty to everyone on AOL because of their own setup, and most of them will assume its the fault of the site/designers.
2. Use OSes with better randomisation of IP IDs.
grsecurity can do this for linux.
Aha, you worked him out. He installed squid. well done sir :)
Ironic you posting in a thread about anti spam with a handy piece of anti-spam software yet your sig is advertising SMS spam and your website has "email marketing" as one of your main services. I dunno about anyone else but I'm too scared to try cloudmark now. Would they be a client of yours by any chance? :P
unfortunately it doesn't take a whole load of brains to read the docs and use dsniff.
While this particular tool probably wasn't available to Kevin I personally always believed that a truly good hacker would and could never be famous, because nobody would ever know who they are. You might hear about what they did, but if you get their identity it generally means they fucked something up.