Re:yeah, like the ads-if-you-don't-pay feature
on
The Future of Firefox
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· Score: 1
on a more serious note, didn't omniweb have tabbed browsing blah blah blah before Opera?
OmniWeb? Not at all. Opera had traditional MDI UI from it's start. The Netcaptor IE-shell introduced the tabbar. Opera 4 added a 'windows bar' that worked much like the Windows taskbar, and is as functional as a tab bar. Every serious browser released since then except MSIE has something like it.
Sigh. There is a reason that Opera 8's UI has been redesigned - to counter this criticism. It is not valid anymore, Opera 8 out-of-the-box has more or less the same number of menu items and toolbar buttons as Firefox.
This does not this apply (at all?) to Opera 8's UserJS.
The special power functions in Opera's userscript run in their own security context and can't be called from the page; the normal content of userscript runs in the page security context (just as Opera-compatible greasemonkey scripts). And since Opera 8.0, http content can't access file: content at all.
Extensions, plugins, BHO are all a security thread. If you install extensions or plugins or BHOs, you should trust the programmer as much as when installing an executable.
Firefox is better in offering a good UI to install and uninstall them. IE before XPSP2 is really bad.
The thing about GM is, that security has not been considered much at all yet - the thing is still in development. So encouraging the whole world to install it was a bit premature... And a second problem with GM is, that by allowing you to install userscripts with a single click, you can easily install harmful scripts. So for each script you install, you should be sure to trust the issuer completely. Just installing some script people putup on a wiki is not that smart... but it is the most common way to find interesting GM scripts! So this is secure only for those who can analyze each script before running it.
Greasemonkey inserts the script directly in the pages, so the GM scripts have the same security context as the page itself. Or so I've understood, correct me if I'm wrong.
In the really integrated solution like Opera has (as opposed to an extension like GM is), userscripts have their own security context. The really powerful functions in Opera's userscript are not available to the page author. All functions in GM, including the most powerful, are available to the page author, and Mark Pilgrim just found out this includes unlimited read access to your local file system.
The GM developers are aware that this is a problem, but haven't developed a better way yet to inject the scripts in the page. So the newly secure release 0.3.5 removes the most powerful functions.
Atom has the advantage of having a very well defined spec. The user agent doesn't have to guess if pointy brackets are content or markup. By using Atom, as a producer you will probably be better off, because you can trust the user agents to get it right. And for the same reason, it will be easy for user agents to support Atom (easier than supporting the numerous RSS variants) so there is little doubt every serious user agent will support Atom in the near future.
That doesn't mean it will take over from RSS 2.0 any time soon, but it will be a pretty riskless change.
There are more browsers that support alpha-transparency in PNGs. Actually, MSIE on Windows is the only serious graphical browser *not* supporting it. So don't forget to add those ads for Opera, Safari, Konqueror, Camino, Omniweb, Galeon, K-Meleon, etc as well.
Nokia still chooses Opera, not Firefox, for its browser. It will be interesting to see when Minimo is finally capable of running meaningfully on a device that weighs 230 grams.
I think this device looks great, especially when it is closed.
The 'who's got the most downloads' game is silly, but apparently the Firefox promotors think it's terribly significant (see SpreadFirefox.com).
So it's really ironic that so many people tell on slashdot that they are downloading like crazy to see Jon swim, all the while helping Opera beat Firefox in this silly game:)
Asa makes it clear in his blog that managing official releases is a *lot* of work, and MoFo does not have unlimited resources. They don't want the long-term responsibility for maintaining both Firefox and Seamonkey. I can't blame them for that.
Re:Not being trollish, but...
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 2, Insightful
.. but Opera feels like a bloated mess. There are far too many buttons and options..
So you didn't actually try Opera 8. The UI has been simplified, the default install now has less buttons and menu items than Firefox....
That's not the case anymore, recently Opera switched to a single license system. You can use the license on all your household computers, whatever the OS you are using.
It is not exactly a trivial task to run a project like Firefox and ensure professional releases. So much so, that MoFo can't manage doing that for both Firefox and MozillaSuite, so the latter gets dropped.
Having the source is nice for a few geeks, but producing quality products that can be used by millions of normal computer users requires a professional organization. It's great MoFo manages to do this right now for Firefox, but there is no garantee this will still be the case in, say, 5 or 10 years.
Opera comes pre-installed or on a complimentary CD on some phones, including some Nokia models. And that is what this deal is about. You don't need a deal with Nokia for offering a third-party shareware program...
Difference is, you can browse the web now with Opera on millions of mobile devices powered by Symbian and Linux. There is even a test version of Opera for Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition.
That Minimo Google-on-phone screenshot didn't look exactly inviting. Getting small-screen rendering right is not the trivial effort some people think it is. Opera has spend a lot of time and resources on getting it right.
Did you read the article? He used the default settings for all tested browsers. This was a seriously big test, using lots of browsers and lots of tests.
The only obvious way to improve the test would be to repeat it on various machines.
Slashdot Mirror
OmniWeb? Not at all. Opera had traditional MDI UI from it's start. The Netcaptor IE-shell introduced the tabbar. Opera 4 added a 'windows bar' that worked much like the Windows taskbar, and is as functional as a tab bar. Every serious browser released since then except MSIE has something like it.
Sigh. There is a reason that Opera 8's UI has been redesigned - to counter this criticism. It is not valid anymore, Opera 8 out-of-the-box has more or less the same number of menu items and toolbar buttons as Firefox.
:)
But your last statement is spot on of course
This does not this apply (at all?) to Opera 8's UserJS.
The special power functions in Opera's userscript run in their own security context and can't be called from the page; the normal content of userscript runs in the page security context (just as Opera-compatible greasemonkey scripts). And since Opera 8.0, http content can't access file: content at all.
Extensions, plugins, BHO are all a security thread. If you install extensions or plugins or BHOs, you should trust the programmer as much as when installing an executable.
Firefox is better in offering a good UI to install and uninstall them. IE before XPSP2 is really bad.
The thing about GM is, that security has not been considered much at all yet - the thing is still in development. So encouraging the whole world to install it was a bit premature... And a second problem with GM is, that by allowing you to install userscripts with a single click, you can easily install harmful scripts. So for each script you install, you should be sure to trust the issuer completely. Just installing some script people putup on a wiki is not that smart... but it is the most common way to find interesting GM scripts! So this is secure only for those who can analyze each script before running it.
Greasemonkey inserts the script directly in the pages, so the GM scripts have the same security context as the page itself. Or so I've understood, correct me if I'm wrong.
In the really integrated solution like Opera has (as opposed to an extension like GM is), userscripts have their own security context. The really powerful functions in Opera's userscript are not available to the page author. All functions in GM, including the most powerful, are available to the page author, and Mark Pilgrim just found out this includes unlimited read access to your local file system.
The GM developers are aware that this is a problem, but haven't developed a better way yet to inject the scripts in the page. So the newly secure release 0.3.5 removes the most powerful functions.
Atom has the advantage of having a very well defined spec. The user agent doesn't have to guess if pointy brackets are content or markup. By using Atom, as a producer you will probably be better off, because you can trust the user agents to get it right. And for the same reason, it will be easy for user agents to support Atom (easier than supporting the numerous RSS variants) so there is little doubt every serious user agent will support Atom in the near future.
That doesn't mean it will take over from RSS 2.0 any time soon, but it will be a pretty riskless change.
Yes, let's turn this in another my-browser-is-better flamefest, instead of a KDE/Apple/etc sucks flamefest.
:)
BTW, Opera for Mac has more functionality than Safari and Firefox combined without needing extensions, and is as fast as Safari in many cases
There are more browsers that support alpha-transparency in PNGs. Actually, MSIE on Windows is the only serious graphical browser *not* supporting it. So don't forget to add those ads for Opera, Safari, Konqueror, Camino, Omniweb, Galeon, K-Meleon, etc as well.
'Best viewed with' was evil, and still is.
Nokia still chooses Opera, not Firefox, for its browser. It will be interesting to see when Minimo is finally capable of running meaningfully on a device that weighs 230 grams.
I think this device looks great, especially when it is closed.
The 'who's got the most downloads' game is silly, but apparently the Firefox promotors think it's terribly significant (see SpreadFirefox.com).
:)
So it's really ironic that so many people tell on slashdot that they are downloading like crazy to see Jon swim, all the while helping Opera beat Firefox in this silly game
Download.com didn't start counting this last Tuesday... The screenshot they have is from 7.5x.
About the Hotmail issue: there are limits to the webcoding stupidity that a browser can fix.
http://my.opera.com/hallvors/journal/37
A few minutes browsing yields this:
http://www.opera.com/features/
http://www.opera.com/products/desktop/compare/
You might not need a feature-rich browser, but it is obvious that firefox does not 'do it all' for free.
Asa makes it clear in his blog that managing official releases is a *lot* of work, and MoFo does not have unlimited resources. They don't want the long-term responsibility for maintaining both Firefox and Seamonkey. I can't blame them for that.
So you didn't actually try Opera 8. The UI has been simplified, the default install now has less buttons and menu items than Firefox....
That's not the case anymore, recently Opera switched to a single license system. You can use the license on all your household computers, whatever the OS you are using.
It is not exactly a trivial task to run a project like Firefox and ensure professional releases. So much so, that MoFo can't manage doing that for both Firefox and MozillaSuite, so the latter gets dropped.
Having the source is nice for a few geeks, but producing quality products that can be used by millions of normal computer users requires a professional organization. It's great MoFo manages to do this right now for Firefox, but there is no garantee this will still be the case in, say, 5 or 10 years.
Small nit: Opera is Norwegian, not Finnish. Both Fins and Norwegians often know Swedish, maybe that helps in negotiations...
Daniel Glazman claims his CSS can do the same for Minimo as Opera's SSR for massaging webpages into something that fits in a 160 pixel wide screen.
But Opera does much more than applying some styles. See here for the brochure.
Opera comes pre-installed or on a complimentary CD on some phones, including some Nokia models. And that is what this deal is about. You don't need a deal with Nokia for offering a third-party shareware program...
See here for the list of current phones where you can either install Opera, or where it is pre-installed.
So you'd rather use Mozilla on Windows mobile than Opera on Symbian? There already is a "real" browser for the P910 after all.
Difference is, you can browse the web now with Opera on millions of mobile devices powered by Symbian and Linux. There is even a test version of Opera for Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition.
That Minimo Google-on-phone screenshot didn't look exactly inviting. Getting small-screen rendering right is not the trivial effort some people think it is. Opera has spend a lot of time and resources on getting it right.
Hush, it's the ascii-reading world that needs protection. Or at least, they decide who needs protection from spoofing...
Did you read the article? He used the default settings for all tested browsers. This was a seriously big test, using lots of browsers and lots of tests.
The only obvious way to improve the test would be to repeat it on various machines.
Ben's weblog entry clearly states he'll be working fulltime on Firefox. He'll just be paid by Google often sit at a Google desk while doing so.