It's not just cost - it's cost and size. Until very recently, anything this size with the capabilities of the eee pc or the hp 2133 was very, very expensive. They've finally gotten to a price point that makes sense. So no - I'm not only concerned about price. But price is important.
The original post that sparked this thread implied that a comparable mac could be had for a couple hundred more - but that's not true. The comparable mac costs almost 3 times as much. So if one would like an ultra portable machine, they can now get one for what seems to me a very reasonable price.
Yes a much larger and heavier machine could be had for the same price, but that doesn't take into account the full picture.
That is a good option if $200 or $300 dollars is a lot of money to someone. If it's not - then spending a few more hundred for something with more storage, ram and new components may be worthwhile.
Solid state parts can last a long time but even they eventually do fail.
Yeah - but the Shift costs something like $1500 if I remember right. That's why these inexpensive and small machines are selling so fast - they aren't just small, they are cheap.
No we're talking ultra portable and budget. The HP 2133 is lighter than the air - and so my point stands.
I wouldn't want to work with office or photoshop on an air or the 2133 - that is not the point. I want something that size to be mobile. Suse is great for browsing, email, and if I needed to I could even handle office docs sufficiently.
I don't work in the business world - I work in the tech world and there isn't really anything I can't do, that I need to do, with a linux box.
The low end on this HP is under $500. I'd say if it takes me an extra hour to get Suse tweaked just right on this box then my time is worth over $1300 an hour.
Even with extra ram, a hard drive and suse - I'm still going to come in a thousand or more under the comparable apple.
Comparing these devices to full sized laptops misses the point.
Exactly. I'd like to see a review of a pda that complained about the lack of screen size, power, and inputs/outputs. These aren't laptops - they are something between a pda and a laptop and they do a great job of filling that niche. The demand demonstrates that people have been hungry for something like this that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I don't even bother trying to use my laptop when I'm actually traveling anymore. For a host of reasons it doesn't work - but one of these would be perfect.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the appeal to me is that the machines can do enough- and they do it for an affordable price. That's the key. It was not long ago - and still is the case - that anything this small and underpowered cost a lot.
The HP review says it does fine doing the basics - that's all most people need. For people who are on the move a lot, lugging around a full size laptop gets really old. People want to connect to the internet anywhere, but they don't want to carry a boat anchor to do it. These umpcs may be small but they are a lot bigger than many phones that would by the way, cost more. So there is the sweet spot. Price and size.
I filled out the form to get a coupon quite a while ago, but haven't had it come in yet. I figure once it arrives, I'll wait until I can walk into a brick and mortar store and pick one up. Ideally one that costs as close as possible to $40.
I'll still need an antenna. I wonder if some places will do a bundle deal and allow the coupon to cover both? That would be nice.
Young man, there's no need to feel down. I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground. I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town There's no need to be unhappy.
Young man, there's a lawyer I know. I said, young man, who can get you some dough. You can sit back, and I'm sure you will find Many ways to ruin others good time.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A. It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
You can get yourself mean, you can have a good deal, You can get folks to settle for whatever you feel...
Young man, are you listening to me? I said, young man, what do you want to be? I said, young man, you can make real your dreams. But you've got to know this one thing!
No man does it all by himself. I said, young man, put your pride on the shelf, And just look there, to the D.M.C.A. I'm sure our legal team can help you today.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A. It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
They have everything that you need to enjoy, You can hang out with all the lawyer boys...
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A. It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
You can get yourself mean, you can have a good deal, You can folks to settle for whatever you feel...
Young man, I was once in your shoes. I said, I was down and out with the blues. I felt no man cared if my band were alive. I felt the whole world was so jive...
That's when a lawyer came up to me, And said, young man, sign this release. There is a law called the D.M.C.A. They can start you back on your way.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A. It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
They have everything that you need to enjoy, You can hang out with all RIAA boys...
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A Young man, young man there's no need to feel down Young man, young man pick yourself off the ground
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A Young man, young man are you listening to me? Young man, young man what do you wanna be?
you'll find it at the Y-M-C-A no man, young man does it all by himself young man, young man put your pride on the shelf
then just go to the Y-M-C-A young man, young man I was once in your shoes young man, young man I said, I was down and out with the blues.
My comment has too few characters per line and I'm really hoping that this brings up the average - though I don't know that it will be enough. Apparently not on the first try- though I did bring up the average an entire character. Let's see if this was sufficient. Wow - it did go up another word but still too few. This could take a while. And of course the entire joke is ruined now. But I've got a stubborn streak in me that just kicked into full gear. Holy cow- 26.2 characters per line is not enough. I'm gonna have a novella down here to go with my funny (or not funny - we'll see) lyrics. Or maybe I'll just go down in flames as off topic for this section. Oh the suspense. 28.4 is not enough. For crying out loud. I like Slashdot, I really do, but this is annoying. If there are going to be ads in the comments then I ought to be able to at least post song lyrics - or should I say parodies of song lyrics. And while I hate to play this card, if that's not possible for the hoi polloi, well it'd be a nice bonus for the um you know - paying customers. I mean I don't think that is asking too much. Time to check again. Oh really - 32.6 is too few? There has to be something more to it than that. I've posted lots of comments that were shorter than that. The one I'm looking at right now above mine isn't that long. There must be something else in the formula there. But I'm not giving up. I'm going to keep at it until this thing gets past. On the bright side, no fear of seeing "Slow Down Cowboy!" now is there? I'm an eternal optimist. And I really feel like I'll be making the world a better place once this goes live
The endings have been rough. Though I think of it like a roller-coaster. I'll end up right back where I got on, but I know I'm gonna laugh like crazy on the trip around. I thought the Pandora's star books ended better than the others. I'll definitely be reading Banks to compare. It sounds like they handle some very similar themes, at least the way the reviewer describes things.
I thought that while Fallen Dragon also had a weak ending, there were some decent twists and turns. I didn't see it all too far out. But maybe I'm just slow that way. His films would translate well to film I think - and that may work out well for Hamilton in the end. Though they'd have to ratchet back on plot lines and characters.
I was disappointed with the end of the Night's Dawn books - but as you say, a great ride. I thought Fallen Dragon had the same problem. I've read the Pandora's star novels and thought that they were his best work yet - just as great a ride but a much more satisfactory conclusion.
The reviewer brought up the comparison between Banks and Hamilton and what he mentions about abundance and interesting AI developments seems to echo themes in all the Hamilton that I've read.
I don't know if I'd rank Hamilton with Herbert or not. But I need to process that further. I read Dune at least once a year and it is one of my favorite books of all time. I really enjoy Hamilton but I don't know if it has that same impact. The problem is many of my favorites, like Dune are tied tightly to my childhood and it is very difficult to be objective when making comparisons.
If you have the time and willingness I'd love to hear more on what you think differentiates the two. I'm not sure why you would say Hamilton is juvenile. I've thought some of his ideas about a society impacted by the removal of death and his imagination in regards to nanotech are quite impressive. I'll definitely read Banks to compare myself, but I'd never really thought so lowly of Hamilton and would love to hear what you think.
The thing is that you can pay more for a much larger laptop - that is extremely inconvenient to carry around or tons more for something a bit bigger but with more power. I have a full size laptop I travel with, but if someone is next to me on a flight, I usually don't bother getting it out. Too much hassle, and just reminds me about the person in front of me having reclined and made it impossible to get the screen to the angle I like.
My last trans-atlantic flight I sat by someone with an eee pc and it was perfect for that environment. They are in general much more portable than anything at remotely close to the same price.
I think this type of device is going to do well for a while and not just as a novelty. It hits a sweet spot that has existed for some time and will continue to grow. As parts get cheaper the screen will get a bit bigger and it will be a fantastic machine.
I have a Sprint ppc-6700. Windows mobile 5, 128 meg of sdram and I've got a 2 gig mini sd card in it. Battery life sucks. I'm lucky to get 8 hours out of it, if I don't talk to anyone. Waiting for apps to load is painfully slow. I have to 'reboot' it more than once a day. More than once I've had an inbound call, I'm clicking the button to take it over and over but the phone is hung up - need to reboot and call them back.
The phone itself is junk but I'm trying to focus primarily on the problems with windows mobile. Prior to this I was a palm user and had become accustomed to a snappy, quick experience from a pda. I was also not used to things crashing all the time.
evdo is nice - it is easy to develop with VS. I like MS Reader. But it sucks to use without a stylus, almost always requires using both hands - even to make calls and is unreliable to the point that I often want to toss it.
Slashdot Mirror
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_(book)
It's not just cost - it's cost and size. Until very recently, anything this size with the capabilities of the eee pc or the hp 2133 was very, very expensive. They've finally gotten to a price point that makes sense. So no - I'm not only concerned about price. But price is important.
The original post that sparked this thread implied that a comparable mac could be had for a couple hundred more - but that's not true. The comparable mac costs almost 3 times as much. So if one would like an ultra portable machine, they can now get one for what seems to me a very reasonable price.
Yes a much larger and heavier machine could be had for the same price, but that doesn't take into account the full picture.
That is a good option if $200 or $300 dollars is a lot of money to someone. If it's not - then spending a few more hundred for something with more storage, ram and new components may be worthwhile.
Solid state parts can last a long time but even they eventually do fail.
Yeah - but the Shift costs something like $1500 if I remember right. That's why these inexpensive and small machines are selling so fast - they aren't just small, they are cheap.
No we're talking ultra portable and budget. The HP 2133 is lighter than the air - and so my point stands.
I wouldn't want to work with office or photoshop on an air or the 2133 - that is not the point. I want something that size to be mobile. Suse is great for browsing, email, and if I needed to I could even handle office docs sufficiently.
I don't work in the business world - I work in the tech world and there isn't really anything I can't do, that I need to do, with a linux box.
Macbook air low end is what? $1799?
The low end on this HP is under $500. I'd say if it takes me an extra hour to get Suse tweaked just right on this box then my time is worth over $1300 an hour.
Even with extra ram, a hard drive and suse - I'm still going to come in a thousand or more under the comparable apple.
Comparing these devices to full sized laptops misses the point.
Exactly. I'd like to see a review of a pda that complained about the lack of screen size, power, and inputs/outputs. These aren't laptops - they are something between a pda and a laptop and they do a great job of filling that niche. The demand demonstrates that people have been hungry for something like this that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I don't even bother trying to use my laptop when I'm actually traveling anymore. For a host of reasons it doesn't work - but one of these would be perfect.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the appeal to me is that the machines can do enough- and they do it for an affordable price. That's the key. It was not long ago - and still is the case - that anything this small and underpowered cost a lot.
The HP review says it does fine doing the basics - that's all most people need. For people who are on the move a lot, lugging around a full size laptop gets really old. People want to connect to the internet anywhere, but they don't want to carry a boat anchor to do it. These umpcs may be small but they are a lot bigger than many phones that would by the way, cost more. So there is the sweet spot. Price and size.
I have cable but we are dropping it.
I filled out the form to get a coupon quite a while ago, but haven't had it come in yet. I figure once it arrives, I'll wait until I can walk into a brick and mortar store and pick one up. Ideally one that costs as close as possible to $40.
I'll still need an antenna. I wonder if some places will do a bundle deal and allow the coupon to cover both? That would be nice.
Can't sleep - wish I could. Can't be funny on purpose either I guess. That's o.k. though.
Excellent - didn't even occur to me, but good to know in the future. Thanks for the tip.
Young man, there's no need to feel down.
...
...
...
...
I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground.
I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town
There's no need to be unhappy.
Young man, there's a lawyer I know.
I said, young man, who can get you some dough.
You can sit back, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to ruin others good time.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
You can get yourself mean, you can have a good deal,
You can get folks to settle for whatever you feel...
Young man, are you listening to me?
I said, young man, what do you want to be?
I said, young man, you can make real your dreams.
But you've got to know this one thing!
No man does it all by himself.
I said, young man, put your pride on the shelf,
And just look there, to the D.M.C.A.
I'm sure our legal team can help you today.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
They have everything that you need to enjoy,
You can hang out with all the lawyer boys
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
You can get yourself mean, you can have a good deal,
You can folks to settle for whatever you feel
Young man, I was once in your shoes.
I said, I was down and out with the blues.
I felt no man cared if my band were alive.
I felt the whole world was so jive
That's when a lawyer came up to me,
And said, young man, sign this release.
There is a law called the D.M.C.A.
They can start you back on your way.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A.
They have everything that you need to enjoy,
You can hang out with all RIAA boys
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A
Young man, young man there's no need to feel down
Young man, young man pick yourself off the ground
It's fun to sue with the D-M-C-A
Young man, young man are you listening to me?
Young man, young man what do you wanna be?
you'll find it at the Y-M-C-A
no man, young man does it all by himself
young man, young man put your pride on the shelf
then just go to the Y-M-C-A
young man, young man I was once in your shoes
young man, young man I said, I was down and out with the blues.
My comment has too few characters per line and I'm really hoping that this brings up the average - though I don't know that it will be enough. Apparently not on the first try- though I did bring up the average an entire character. Let's see if this was sufficient. Wow - it did go up another word but still too few. This could take a while. And of course the entire joke is ruined now. But I've got a stubborn streak in me that just kicked into full gear. Holy cow- 26.2 characters per line is not enough. I'm gonna have a novella down here to go with my funny (or not funny - we'll see) lyrics. Or maybe I'll just go down in flames as off topic for this section. Oh the suspense. 28.4 is not enough. For crying out loud. I like Slashdot, I really do, but this is annoying. If there are going to be ads in the comments then I ought to be able to at least post song lyrics - or should I say parodies of song lyrics. And while I hate to play this card, if that's not possible for the hoi polloi, well it'd be a nice bonus for the um you know - paying customers. I mean I don't think that is asking too much. Time to check again. Oh really - 32.6 is too few? There has to be something more to it than that. I've posted lots of comments that were shorter than that. The one I'm looking at right now above mine isn't that long. There must be something else in the formula there. But I'm not giving up. I'm going to keep at it until this thing gets past. On the bright side, no fear of seeing "Slow Down Cowboy!" now is there? I'm an eternal optimist. And I really feel like I'll be making the world a better place once this goes live
Thanks.
You insensitive clod!
As my struggle is usually to burn more calories, this wouldn't be unwelcome.
The endings have been rough. Though I think of it like a roller-coaster. I'll end up right back where I got on, but I know I'm gonna laugh like crazy on the trip around. I thought the Pandora's star books ended better than the others. I'll definitely be reading Banks to compare. It sounds like they handle some very similar themes, at least the way the reviewer describes things.
I thought that while Fallen Dragon also had a weak ending, there were some decent twists and turns. I didn't see it all too far out. But maybe I'm just slow that way. His films would translate well to film I think - and that may work out well for Hamilton in the end. Though they'd have to ratchet back on plot lines and characters.
I was disappointed with the end of the Night's Dawn books - but as you say, a great ride. I thought Fallen Dragon had the same problem. I've read the Pandora's star novels and thought that they were his best work yet - just as great a ride but a much more satisfactory conclusion.
The reviewer brought up the comparison between Banks and Hamilton and what he mentions about abundance and interesting AI developments seems to echo themes in all the Hamilton that I've read.
I don't know if I'd rank Hamilton with Herbert or not. But I need to process that further. I read Dune at least once a year and it is one of my favorite books of all time. I really enjoy Hamilton but I don't know if it has that same impact. The problem is many of my favorites, like Dune are tied tightly to my childhood and it is very difficult to be objective when making comparisons.
If you have the time and willingness I'd love to hear more on what you think differentiates the two. I'm not sure why you would say Hamilton is juvenile. I've thought some of his ideas about a society impacted by the removal of death and his imagination in regards to nanotech are quite impressive. I'll definitely read Banks to compare myself, but I'd never really thought so lowly of Hamilton and would love to hear what you think.
cool. thanks for the recommendations.
book reviews are always titled with the title of the book. been that way for as long as I can remember.
Hamilton I dig. Gonna have to check this out. Sounds like there may be some decent similarities in content if not style.
The thing is that you can pay more for a much larger laptop - that is extremely inconvenient to carry around or tons more for something a bit bigger but with more power. I have a full size laptop I travel with, but if someone is next to me on a flight, I usually don't bother getting it out. Too much hassle, and just reminds me about the person in front of me having reclined and made it impossible to get the screen to the angle I like.
My last trans-atlantic flight I sat by someone with an eee pc and it was perfect for that environment. They are in general much more portable than anything at remotely close to the same price.
I think this type of device is going to do well for a while and not just as a novelty. It hits a sweet spot that has existed for some time and will continue to grow. As parts get cheaper the screen will get a bit bigger and it will be a fantastic machine.
I have a Sprint ppc-6700. Windows mobile 5, 128 meg of sdram and I've got a 2 gig mini sd card in it. Battery life sucks. I'm lucky to get 8 hours out of it, if I don't talk to anyone. Waiting for apps to load is painfully slow. I have to 'reboot' it more than once a day. More than once I've had an inbound call, I'm clicking the button to take it over and over but the phone is hung up - need to reboot and call them back.
The phone itself is junk but I'm trying to focus primarily on the problems with windows mobile. Prior to this I was a palm user and had become accustomed to a snappy, quick experience from a pda. I was also not used to things crashing all the time.
evdo is nice - it is easy to develop with VS. I like MS Reader. But it sucks to use without a stylus, almost always requires using both hands - even to make calls and is unreliable to the point that I often want to toss it.
and why do you think asus wont take advantage of the same trends and improve the eee pc?