"Why is it that we the people are no longer represented...the govenment, has become the govenment of concerns, the big guys, the money launders"
What you've just described (and very well I might add) is Top Down democracy whereby the elite minority ( and their holdings ) are protected from the majority. Sorta echoes the sentiments of the French in the storming of the Bastille - doesn't it?
Re:John Stossel told all about the "Green Religion
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ah so that's where you get your information from?
I'm sure gonna hang onto you post for enlightenment.... NOT! Ask yourself who owns the network this spew came out of. I suggest you move your butt off the couch and into a library.
I drive a 1996 Pontiac Grand Am with a 4 cylinder engine that gets pretty damn good mileage. It has all kinds of pollution controls on it which makes me feel good and I keep it well tuned and in good shape. We disconnected the A/C because it's pretty useless other than for a month a year. We share this one vehicle among two adults and two teenaged children. It's a little inconvenient at times but we manage just fine.
My in-laws live in a duplex. There are 5 adults living in two single dwelling residences. Between them they own 1 Dodge Derango, 1 cadillac seville, one Ford Taurus,
I GMC Jimmy, 1 minivan (I forget the name of it) and one Ford pickup truck. When my husband lived there he also owned a 1988 Monte Carlo. That was 7 vehicles for one duplex.
None of them work in an industry that requires them to carry large loads. They work in offices. 5 of the 6 remaining vehicles have A/C and they all carry cellphones and use them while driving. None of them do any off-road driving or any other sports besides channel flipping with the remote control.
I smoke cigarettes. Last year I was asked not to smoke in my in-laws home. They claimed that 2nd hand smoke shortens their lives and makes the air in the house stink. I countered that their driving habits and use of cellphones while driving may shorten my life as well. I respectfully suggested that they contribute to my right to a clean living environment as well by perhaps car pooling and selling a couple of their gas guzzlers. I also asked they be a little more conscious of their driving habits for the protection of other drivers and their families by not using the cellphones when driving.
I told them I would respect their wishes not to smoke in their home and stay away from their home until they could respect my wishes to have a cleaner city and a safe environment in which to drive our single and very necessary vehicle.
I think that is appropriate action on my part and I stand by my principles. My husband and children support me in this.
Re:Lets Blowup a Nuclear Power Plant!
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A number of yrs ago a nuclear plant was built at 3-mile Island in Pennsylvania. A number of years ago a nuclear plant was built in Cherynobl Russia. The president of the United States of America is suggesting a return to nuclear power and burning fossil fuels as energy sources. Why?
So we in North America can continue to live far beyond our means of production? Good plan... NOT!
"There is a big difference between legitimate civil disobediance and destroying property as a punishment or way of forcing one's opinion on others. I don't see why there is even a question here."
But destroying property for profit is ok? I live in Pennsylvania where there is extensive damage to the land caused by the coal industry. A town was on fire for 20 years (underground coal vein burning), houses collapsed into the empty ground below them, children playing in the woods fell to their deaths in hidden coal pits, and mountains of coal debrise are everywhere you look. Did the magnets that reaped the profits from the coal industry bother to clean up or make reparation to the state? Yet we still have fallout from the industry 60 yrs after the fact.
In Canada American corporations moved into pristine areas and setup lumber industries. The basis of the industry was to supply raw material (wood) to the USA for production. They polluted every waterway they could use and then, when the forests were picked clean, they sold the towns (built around the industry) to the locals and saddled them with debt while all along making plans to pull out leaving the people unemployed. I won't even get into mass clear-cutting in British Columbia that has taken the lives and many innocent people (Hope BC where a clear-cut mountain caused a landslide which buried a schoolbus full of children and several other motorists). Have you seen what a magnificent mountain looks like when it has been clear cut? I didn't think so.
Now let's go to the rain forests. Have you ever flown over the rain forests and seen the damage? Probably not. You can see the smoke from hundreds of miles away. The mostly American industries that are burning the rain forests at an acre a second are potentially burning a future cure for cancer, but profit comes first. Why? so Americans can enjoy their fast food industry? Let's not forgetthe irrepairable devastation to the human and animal inhabitants of the rain forests.
It's time Americans realized that living beyond our means of production means taking (without permission) the livelihoods, homes, and lives of countless people the world over. I think that Americans should have it put in their faces a little more to drive home the message. Let's start clear cutting Mt. Raynior (sp) and all mountains in the American rockies, our national parks alos hold a wealth of resources, let's level them too. Lets start low flying our jets over major centers in every state in the nation. While we're at it, let's move the naval base out of Viegues Puerto Rico and expand our base in Hawaii...
better still, move the residents of LA, SF, and other coastal cities into the dessert and setup military testing/training bases there.
Do you still think there is no question here?
I think the point here is when laws are written and enforced that harm nature and humans for the profit of corporations and the people who try to lobby for a better way are being ignored because they can't buy the sameinfluence as business does, then those laws are bad and need to be challenged. Sometimes civil disobedience is the only way to bring attention to an otherwise hopeless dilemna.
I am grateful that Bush is our president. In a matter of just a few short months he has exposed the corporate-owned government agenda more clearly than any other president of the nation. Even the rote learning school (TV couch potatos) are getting a clearer understanding of how callous our nation is. Just imagine what we can learn in 4 yrs under this administration! Keep up the good work George:P.
Maybe this isn't about environmental activists.
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Right off the top, I hate the word eco-terrorist.
It screams far-right activism. Environmentalist are not communists, terrorists, or tree huggers, they are PEOPLE who really care about this earth we live in and can actually get past the idea that the world doesn't begin at California and end at Maine.
That being said, has it ever crossed the minds of people that this has little to do with the environmnet and more to do with the STEEL industry?
I don't know, but the loss of 18,000 jobs in the steel industry in PA (Pennsylvania) alone may have something to do with it. Maybe the fact that steel imports from Japan far outweight the steel used in production in the USofA.
Just maybe the real culprits here aren't the far left, the far right, or the center, but rather corporations. For all the flag-waving I'm seeing on Slashdot lately I think it rather ironic that while the masses are being prodded to patriotism, the corporations who own government and own your soul are shipping your jobs anywhere in the world where enviro concerns are non-existant and/or labour is dirt cheap.
In the meantime, our criminal president is reversing legislation that has been long and hard fought and paid for to appease big business who have no regard for anything but profit.
I think that offering another possibility to think about may just wake some people up and get them to start asking questions. If so, that would have justified this post.
Re:Locke would say...Madison would counter ....
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"Locke would say... that we have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property."
Madison would counter...and did.
The rights to life, liberty and property as were written in the constitution actually mean the rights OF property.. or top down democracy. Briefly, the rights OF property means that the wealthy and the powerful (the minority) have rights under the constitution to protect their property (holdings) from the masses.
The growth of the industrial economy, and the rise of corporate forms of economic enterprise, led to a completely new meaning of the term. In a current official document, "Person" is broadly defined to include any individual, branch, partnership, associated group, association, estate, trust,corporation or other organization (whether or not organized under the laws of any State), or any government entity," a concept that
doubtless would have shocked Madison [the leading framer of the constitutional system... an astute and lucid political thinker whose views largely prevailed] and others with intellectual roots in the Enlightenment and classical liberalism--pre-capitalist, and anti-capitalist in spirit
These radical changes in the conception of human rights and democracy were not introduced primarily by legislation, but by judicial decisions and intellectual commentary.
Corporations, which previously had been
considered artificial entities with no rights, were accorded all the rights of persons, and far more, since they are
"immortal persons," and "persons" of extraordinary wealth and power.
Furthermore, they were no longer bound to the specific purposes designated by state charter, but could act as they chose, with few constraints. The intellectual backgrounds for granting such extraordinary rights to "collectivist legal entities" lie in neo-Hegelian doctrines that also underlie Bolshevism and fascism: the idea that organic entities have rights over and above those of persons.
In Noam Chomsky. Market Democracy.
Also good reading is Profits Over People, neoliberalism and global order. Noam Chomsky (1999).
Typical leftists, if people aren't doing what you want them to do, use force/terror/destruction.
That sounds more ltypical of the American foreign policy than American leftists.
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
Re:Much like Muslims and Islama Bin Laden
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All your tactics do is turn the majority off of your cause. Since I consider the environment to be one my causes, I consider you a hinderance to my cause no better than a large oil company or the Republican party. At least a person can negotiate with an oil company or a Republican and try to reach a compromise.
I consider myself a responsible person who tries to balance my concerns about the environment against the almost unsurmountable odds presented by Greed Inc. While I do not condone terrorism in any form, I do understand the frustration behind such acts. For their trouble---lobbying for a more responsible approach by industry to the environment and presenting hard scientific evidence to the gov't and industry that demonstrate the short-sightedness of their actions---environmentalist have been labelled everything from tree huggers to eco-terrorists and ridiculed or otherwise patronized in the mass media and in government.
It is naive to believe the masses have any effect whatsoever on corporate bought governments. When private citizens can match the billions of dollars INVESTED in government (buying public policy) then perhaps they may be heard. Until then, the only consideration government gives is to the industries who are raping our environment for profit.
Who knows who blew up the SUV dealership. What perople should get from this is that gas guzzlers like SUVs are no more welcome than cigarette smokers in hospitals, schools, and other publice institutions or fur bearing ladies and men of wealth.
It kinda pisses me off when I pull into a Holiday Inn in Ohio in my 4 cylinder shitbox and get charged an energy surtax the same as most of the other guests who are parking SUVs in the parking lot. Now ask me why I should feel sorry for Californians in the midst of an energy crises when they (per capita) absorb 10 times the energy needs of most small nations in the world. Yea lets bring back the burning of fossil fuels and nuclear power for energy so we Americans can continue to live way beyond our domestic production capacity.
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see!
Unfortunately the same applies in voting patterns. I took the time to ask my friends and family who they intended to vote for and why. Most were quick to say who but not so quick to explain why (other than what they heard in the mass media - anything beyond that was lost to them). When presented with obstacles to the media profiles, all of them quickly frustrated and some even got rather defensive. Most answers were along the lines of "I've always been Repulican and/or Democrat and I'm not about to change now."
After the election, many people were stunned by the open and blatant policy flipflop by both the present and the past administrations.
Do I feel bad that these people wasted their right to vote? No. Do I give them an audience when they complained later about steps their presidents adopted that they didn't know about before the vote? No. Do I think they will learn from this and start doing some research in their choices? No.
So I agree 100% with your post. Most people in this country are stupid in that they have bought the whole program dished out to them by the mass media (which is an unaccountable monopolized industry in itself and works only it its own best interest). So until the masses get off the couch and turn off the great propoganda machine (the TV) and take the long road to learning then we cannot expect much more than the present status quo. Sad!
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
I believe the rules were changed when corporations were given *rights* in the constitution that surpass individual rights.
This led (naturally) to top-down democracy or neoliberalism which holds that the rights of the elite (usually large multi-national corporations) are rights without responsibility or accountability to the masses. With the emergence of multiple monopoly corporations and protectionist laws that guarantee the GATE is closed to rising (and future) entrepeneurs, democracy (as many understand it) is denied to the masses.
We are living in a market-democracy that has far reaching negative consequences for every social and political structure existing. More and more laws are being passed that effectively cater to large corporations and their oligarchial agendas.
Is it wise to take a laisse faire attitude and just allow the NEW status quo to prevail? Well that depends on one's value of democracy doesn't it?
Government - especially the US government are not about to include the masses in the democratic process because democracy is a myth.
The DOJ will bow down to anything MS or any other monopolistic corporation wants because they own government.
It's an age old addage that still holds true today --- that the oligarchial minority rule the masses and democracy is linear - top down. How else would the elite protect their wealth and power? If you want equality then go socialist in the purest Marxist sense. However, even that is impossible in the NEW *cough* global economy. Just look what happened to Nicuagra in the Reagocentric years. Do you really believe it can't happen here or it isn't happening here? Tell me otherwise when the DOJ settles with MS, and eventually AOL/TW and GE and IBM and any other monopolistic corporation. They'll play the game in the best interests of the players that count. To believe otherwise is naive.
There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.
Re:this is getting too easy ...Plato's Republic!
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Well then, maybe you should start climbing back down the trees and showing the users the leather balls you found up there, rather than taking away the bushes they're playing with down there... or maybe even fashion a rope or ladder in order to help them on their way up...
Interesting depiction of Plato's Republic but not quite complete. When he (Socrates) crawled out of the cave and saw the light he was blinded for some time but learned of all the beauty above as compared to all the bad in the cave. He knew he had to climb back down into the cave to tell his fellow men of the beauty above. When he did so, what do you think happened to him?
He was killed! The masters that had complete control over the masses (in the cave) could not allow their slaves to discover a better world. Could not let them see the truth and be free. In the cave the masses were chained to the walls of the cave where they lived a daily esistence of repetitive (specialized) routines. They could not see anything but shadows as there was a fire in the center of the cave that prevented them from seeing others as human beings. This prevented the masses from communicating... seeing each other and their situation. If they were free to do so, they would break free of their chains and the cave and would overthrow the masters. So they had to kill anyone who broke free of their confines.
Our system of market democracy (which is neoliberal), is top-down democracy giving greater freedom to those of priviledge (rights of property as opposed to rights to property). The masses are permitted to enter the democratic process as "spectators" only and only those *respectable persons* may "participate" in the real decision making processes. Read more in Noam Chomsky's Profit Over People (1999).
This is why Microsoft will probably be able to squelch the GPL. It is anti-capitalist and gives the masses an alternative to so-called free market enterprise. And some of you actually cling to the thought that you live in a democratic society? There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
Keep it up, Bill! Lease that software! Change those formats! Screw your customers till they're sick of it!
Aww now why'd you have to go and let that outta the bag eh? You wouldn't wanna see billy-boi put it in reverse would you? heh
Freedom of choice in politics can be sustained only by freedom of choice in the mass media. The two cannot be separated...
Ben H. Bagdikian, The Midia Monopoly.
It's the availability of useful and well-marketed applications that drive the success of a given platform.
Operative word here is useful to the end user... ie... without constantly failing. But I'll give M$ one thing... they sure as hell have marketing down to an artform, now if only they would concentrate a wee bit more on quality they just might get it right.
Unfortunately, an application can be a buggy pile of garbage that runs on a rusty shitbox of an OS and still succeed: if it does something users need, and they can learn how to make it work well enough, then it can be sold.
That is the best example of M$'s business model I've seen in a long time:P
Insulting and alienating developers, companies and users who currently rely on Microsoft products is not a good way to make converts
M$ does a fine job of converting developers, companies, and users to Linux all by itself. It doesn't need our help at all:P.
So, bash Microsoft all you like, until your head starts to bleed from banging it against a wall.
Gee thanks for permission but the only one I see bleeding lately is M$. Has anyone else noticed the increased demand for UNIX/Linux techies to convert NT to Linux O/S's lately? Interesting stuff.
Your energy is better spent developing and evangelizing [Like is that a new corporate buzz werd or something?] better solutions.
Well what the hay do you think the open-source community does exactly if it isn't developing better solutions? huh?
Not necessarily technically better, but better in the eyes of business customers, who often have concerns that might seem pretty alien to nerds,
And just what would those concerns be? Security? Reliability? Fair Market Price? Ownership (as opposed to subscriptions) of purchased and licensed software? Other? All these concerns are very real and have a everything to do with necessarily technically better. What else is there in the
computer field? Oh wait a minute, maybe you were referring to the ongoing support of a prominent member of the "old boys club"? Sorry I'm a techie and I don't know dip shit about that kind of political b.s.
"Is this vendor large enough for us to sue if something goes wrong?"
Geezus and you defend this line of thinking? Who was it that said Capitalism was designed to implode". BOOM!
I don't see MS as evil. They are ruthless, arrogant, satisfied with nothing but complete victory, and unparticular about the means they use to achieve it"
Including putting out a series of products that are shamefully inadequate to business and home PC users alike. As mentioned above, M$ doesn't need any help from the open-source community (or anyone else) to bring it's evil empire crashing down. They're doing a fine job all by themselves.
I'd love to see someone give Microsoft a good fight.
Linux!
Sig borrowed from another slashdot groupie:Linux *is* user friendly *not* idiot-friendly!
What is Foozball registered @hotmail? Tell you what. I'll give you some valid Canadian postal codes to use if you give me some valid Merican ones:P What am I saying here? I don't even use Microscrap. Slackware Rulz.
Why would anyone want to pay to develop for M$?
Better yet... why would anyone develop for M$.
'The lame chatrooms and even more lame homepage are not going to do much good here. Id like to see something like "oh, you are looking for song a, here it is and btw you might like that band, too". Something in a better whats related style.
and you'll want them to butter your toast for you too huh? Try getting out of your wee lil paradigm and trying the myriad of GREAT artists that don't get radio play or promos from the industry. You might be pleasantly surprised and even broaden your mind.
"and if the "other" (non-Napsterized) music labels see these labels eating on their piece of the cake they might want to buy into the whole Napster thing, too. And this would be good for everybody. And yes, I will pay for the service and so should you..."
Why would I pay for music I can listen to on the AM radio stations? The whole idea of the MP3 distro's is to distribute a variety of music from a variety of artists, not just the industry sanctioned artists... although they too are available. Tell you what dude, you pay your $.02 worth and tell me all about when you feel used again.
PS.. if it weren't for Chat channels on IRC and websites (friends and link sites) I would have missed out on tons of really great music. Ever heard of the Watchmen... Silent Radar? I didn't think so! D/L them and get some really good music for free then attend their concerts:).
Exactly! and Napster will be laughing all the way to the bank LOL ^5 Napster:).
It would cost the 150 record companies a fortune to revive the "source tapes" it stored away, lost or got destroyed over the years to even vaguely supply the music EX napster users are really after.
Most downloads of mp3s are rare albums and cd's which the record companies did not retain the digital masters for. Inventory costs money.. even the storage of masters... that's not fast money and so the recording industry wants no part of it. The record companies are only interested in the CURRENT fast moving music.. like what you can tape off the AM radio stations LOL. Oh yea they might keep the best hits (#1s) to redistribute as package cd's like greatest hits this and that and NOW records. Gimmie a f'n break!
It's the record collectors (ordinary joes) that supply the MP3 sites with the REAL music and Napster knows that so hey why not sign a dead-end-deal with 150 labels and get some payola back for their grief hehe.
Now about the artists... there is at least a 3% royalty on all CDRs sold that was SUPPOSED to go into a digital fund for the artists! Does anyone know where this cash went? Maybe it's all tied up in those Beverly Hills mansions someone mentioned.
The unplayed, unshelved and great artists that the record companies (as a whole) reject do not stand a chance on the NEW Napster anymore than they did in the status-quo. That's the MAIN reason free music sites will thrive over anything the recording industry proposes or realizes.
So how do the artists get paid for their music? By us! How long will CDR mfg's stay afloat if they do not divy up the profits among artists? Will they go the same route as the recording industry is now? Chances are real good. How about live shows and music discussions (also mentioned above), will that not work to pay the artists in the long run? My bet is yes. It won't be fast, easy money, but then only the serious artists will survive and that's not half bad.
The epitath of the recording industry should read long.... MP3s came out in 1987, we heard about it in 1997 and we tried to litigate the technology to death. Woe is we
"If we have the best weapons, no one will attack us. If they do, the war will be quick and they will be dead with minimal losses on our side. How is that wrong?"
What if the USA does what it has historically done in all wars they've been involved with...
underestimate the so-called ENEMY. Let's rephrase that for a moment... "no one will attack us" (
ok so terrorism - or retaliation - never happens right?) and the rest of the world is in the dark ages right? No other nation has nuclear capability, they're just the ENEMY...
faceless, nameless, non-humans on the other SIDE of the conflict.
Let's examine our high school grads to let's say... Japan's or China's or those in the Arab nations? Scary thought.
and "they will be dead with minimal losses on our side"
Or we will all be dead because the pompus USA has again underestimated the other side.
Sig: Join the military, travel the world, meet nice people, Kill them.
Until M$ invests and then it's "get those damned Linux machines out of here... M$ does clustering too *cough*.
Oh well it was good while it lasted and then there will be another search engine based on the same structure as Google and they'll go public etc etc etc.
Slashdot Mirror
"Why is it that we the people are no longer represented...the govenment, has become the govenment of concerns, the big guys, the money launders"
What you've just described (and very well I might add) is Top Down democracy whereby the elite minority ( and their holdings ) are protected from the majority. Sorta echoes the sentiments of the French in the storming of the Bastille - doesn't it?
We have the best damn democracy money can buy.
Is Kline taken? Oh yea . on IRC :P
ah so that's where you get your information from? I'm sure gonna hang onto you post for enlightenment .... NOT! Ask yourself who owns the network this spew came out of. I suggest you move your butt off the couch and into a library.
I drive a 1996 Pontiac Grand Am with a 4 cylinder engine that gets pretty damn good mileage. It has all kinds of pollution controls on it which makes me feel good and I keep it well tuned and in good shape. We disconnected the A/C because it's pretty useless other than for a month a year. We share this one vehicle among two adults and two teenaged children. It's a little inconvenient at times but we manage just fine.
My in-laws live in a duplex. There are 5 adults living in two single dwelling residences. Between them they own 1 Dodge Derango, 1 cadillac seville, one Ford Taurus, I GMC Jimmy, 1 minivan (I forget the name of it) and one Ford pickup truck. When my husband lived there he also owned a 1988 Monte Carlo. That was 7 vehicles for one duplex.
None of them work in an industry that requires them to carry large loads. They work in offices. 5 of the 6 remaining vehicles have A/C and they all carry cellphones and use them while driving. None of them do any off-road driving or any other sports besides channel flipping with the remote control.
I smoke cigarettes. Last year I was asked not to smoke in my in-laws home. They claimed that 2nd hand smoke shortens their lives and makes the air in the house stink. I countered that their driving habits and use of cellphones while driving may shorten my life as well. I respectfully suggested that they contribute to my right to a clean living environment as well by perhaps car pooling and selling a couple of their gas guzzlers. I also asked they be a little more conscious of their driving habits for the protection of other drivers and their families by not using the cellphones when driving.
I told them I would respect their wishes not to smoke in their home and stay away from their home until they could respect my wishes to have a cleaner city and a safe environment in which to drive our single and very necessary vehicle.
I think that is appropriate action on my part and I stand by my principles. My husband and children support me in this.
A number of yrs ago a nuclear plant was built at 3-mile Island in Pennsylvania. A number of years ago a nuclear plant was built in Cherynobl Russia. The president of the United States of America is suggesting a return to nuclear power and burning fossil fuels as energy sources. Why? So we in North America can continue to live far beyond our means of production? Good plan ... NOT!
"There is a big difference between legitimate civil disobediance and destroying property as a punishment or way of forcing one's opinion on others. I don't see why there is even a question here."
...
better still, move the residents of LA, SF, and other coastal cities into the dessert and setup military testing/training bases there.
:P.
But destroying property for profit is ok? I live in Pennsylvania where there is extensive damage to the land caused by the coal industry. A town was on fire for 20 years (underground coal vein burning), houses collapsed into the empty ground below them, children playing in the woods fell to their deaths in hidden coal pits, and mountains of coal debrise are everywhere you look. Did the magnets that reaped the profits from the coal industry bother to clean up or make reparation to the state? Yet we still have fallout from the industry 60 yrs after the fact.
In Canada American corporations moved into pristine areas and setup lumber industries. The basis of the industry was to supply raw material (wood) to the USA for production. They polluted every waterway they could use and then, when the forests were picked clean, they sold the towns (built around the industry) to the locals and saddled them with debt while all along making plans to pull out leaving the people unemployed. I won't even get into mass clear-cutting in British Columbia that has taken the lives and many innocent people (Hope BC where a clear-cut mountain caused a landslide which buried a schoolbus full of children and several other motorists). Have you seen what a magnificent mountain looks like when it has been clear cut? I didn't think so.
Now let's go to the rain forests. Have you ever flown over the rain forests and seen the damage? Probably not. You can see the smoke from hundreds of miles away. The mostly American industries that are burning the rain forests at an acre a second are potentially burning a future cure for cancer, but profit comes first. Why? so Americans can enjoy their fast food industry? Let's not forgetthe irrepairable devastation to the human and animal inhabitants of the rain forests.
It's time Americans realized that living beyond our means of production means taking (without permission) the livelihoods, homes, and lives of countless people the world over. I think that Americans should have it put in their faces a little more to drive home the message. Let's start clear cutting Mt. Raynior (sp) and all mountains in the American rockies, our national parks alos hold a wealth of resources, let's level them too. Lets start low flying our jets over major centers in every state in the nation. While we're at it, let's move the naval base out of Viegues Puerto Rico and expand our base in Hawaii
Do you still think there is no question here? I think the point here is when laws are written and enforced that harm nature and humans for the profit of corporations and the people who try to lobby for a better way are being ignored because they can't buy the sameinfluence as business does, then those laws are bad and need to be challenged. Sometimes civil disobedience is the only way to bring attention to an otherwise hopeless dilemna.
I am grateful that Bush is our president. In a matter of just a few short months he has exposed the corporate-owned government agenda more clearly than any other president of the nation. Even the rote learning school (TV couch potatos) are getting a clearer understanding of how callous our nation is. Just imagine what we can learn in 4 yrs under this administration! Keep up the good work George
Right off the top, I hate the word eco-terrorist. It screams far-right activism. Environmentalist are not communists, terrorists, or tree huggers, they are PEOPLE who really care about this earth we live in and can actually get past the idea that the world doesn't begin at California and end at Maine.
That being said, has it ever crossed the minds of people that this has little to do with the environmnet and more to do with the STEEL industry?
I don't know, but the loss of 18,000 jobs in the steel industry in PA (Pennsylvania) alone may have something to do with it. Maybe the fact that steel imports from Japan far outweight the steel used in production in the USofA.
Just maybe the real culprits here aren't the far left, the far right, or the center, but rather corporations. For all the flag-waving I'm seeing on Slashdot lately I think it rather ironic that while the masses are being prodded to patriotism, the corporations who own government and own your soul are shipping your jobs anywhere in the world where enviro concerns are non-existant and/or labour is dirt cheap.
In the meantime, our criminal president is reversing legislation that has been long and hard fought and paid for to appease big business who have no regard for anything but profit.
I think that offering another possibility to think about may just wake some people up and get them to start asking questions. If so, that would have justified this post.
"Locke would say ... that we have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property."
...and did.
.. or top down democracy. Briefly, the rights OF property means that the wealthy and the powerful (the minority) have rights under the constitution to protect their property (holdings) from the masses.
... an astute and lucid political thinker whose views largely prevailed] and others with intellectual roots in the Enlightenment and classical liberalism--pre-capitalist, and anti-capitalist in spirit
Madison would counter
The rights to life, liberty and property as were written in the constitution actually mean the rights OF property
The growth of the industrial economy, and the rise of corporate forms of economic enterprise, led to a completely new meaning of the term. In a current official document, "Person" is broadly defined to include any individual, branch, partnership, associated group, association, estate, trust,corporation or other organization (whether or not organized under the laws of any State), or any government entity," a concept that doubtless would have shocked Madison [the leading framer of the constitutional system
These radical changes in the conception of human rights and democracy were not introduced primarily by legislation, but by judicial decisions and intellectual commentary.
Corporations, which previously had been considered artificial entities with no rights, were accorded all the rights of persons, and far more, since they are "immortal persons," and "persons" of extraordinary wealth and power.
Furthermore, they were no longer bound to the specific purposes designated by state charter, but could act as they chose, with few constraints. The intellectual backgrounds for granting such extraordinary rights to "collectivist legal entities" lie in neo-Hegelian doctrines that also underlie Bolshevism and fascism: the idea that organic entities have rights over and above those of persons.
In Noam Chomsky. Market Democracy.
Also good reading is Profits Over People, neoliberalism and global order. Noam Chomsky (1999).
Enlighten thyself.
Typical leftists, if people aren't doing what you want them to do, use force/terror/destruction.
That sounds more ltypical of the American foreign policy than American leftists.
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
All your tactics do is turn the majority off of your cause. Since I consider the environment to be one my causes, I consider you a hinderance to my cause no better than a large oil company or the Republican party. At least a person can negotiate with an oil company or a Republican and try to reach a compromise.
I consider myself a responsible person who tries to balance my concerns about the environment against the almost unsurmountable odds presented by Greed Inc. While I do not condone terrorism in any form, I do understand the frustration behind such acts. For their trouble---lobbying for a more responsible approach by industry to the environment and presenting hard scientific evidence to the gov't and industry that demonstrate the short-sightedness of their actions---environmentalist have been labelled everything from tree huggers to eco-terrorists and ridiculed or otherwise patronized in the mass media and in government.
It is naive to believe the masses have any effect whatsoever on corporate bought governments. When private citizens can match the billions of dollars INVESTED in government (buying public policy) then perhaps they may be heard. Until then, the only consideration government gives is to the industries who are raping our environment for profit.
Who knows who blew up the SUV dealership. What perople should get from this is that gas guzzlers like SUVs are no more welcome than cigarette smokers in hospitals, schools, and other publice institutions or fur bearing ladies and men of wealth.
It kinda pisses me off when I pull into a Holiday Inn in Ohio in my 4 cylinder shitbox and get charged an energy surtax the same as most of the other guests who are parking SUVs in the parking lot. Now ask me why I should feel sorry for Californians in the midst of an energy crises when they (per capita) absorb 10 times the energy needs of most small nations in the world. Yea lets bring back the burning of fossil fuels and nuclear power for energy so we Americans can continue to live way beyond our domestic production capacity.
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see!
Unfortunately the same applies in voting patterns. I took the time to ask my friends and family who they intended to vote for and why. Most were quick to say who but not so quick to explain why (other than what they heard in the mass media - anything beyond that was lost to them). When presented with obstacles to the media profiles, all of them quickly frustrated and some even got rather defensive. Most answers were along the lines of "I've always been Repulican and/or Democrat and I'm not about to change now." After the election, many people were stunned by the open and blatant policy flipflop by both the present and the past administrations.
Do I feel bad that these people wasted their right to vote? No. Do I give them an audience when they complained later about steps their presidents adopted that they didn't know about before the vote? No. Do I think they will learn from this and start doing some research in their choices? No.
So I agree 100% with your post. Most people in this country are stupid in that they have bought the whole program dished out to them by the mass media (which is an unaccountable monopolized industry in itself and works only it its own best interest). So until the masses get off the couch and turn off the great propoganda machine (the TV) and take the long road to learning then we cannot expect much more than the present status quo. Sad!
There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
I believe the rules were changed when corporations were given *rights* in the constitution that surpass individual rights. This led (naturally) to top-down democracy or neoliberalism which holds that the rights of the elite (usually large multi-national corporations) are rights without responsibility or accountability to the masses. With the emergence of multiple monopoly corporations and protectionist laws that guarantee the GATE is closed to rising (and future) entrepeneurs, democracy (as many understand it) is denied to the masses.
We are living in a market-democracy that has far reaching negative consequences for every social and political structure existing. More and more laws are being passed that effectively cater to large corporations and their oligarchial agendas.
Is it wise to take a laisse faire attitude and just allow the NEW status quo to prevail? Well that depends on one's value of democracy doesn't it?
Government - especially the US government are not about to include the masses in the democratic process because democracy is a myth. The DOJ will bow down to anything MS or any other monopolistic corporation wants because they own government.
It's an age old addage that still holds true today --- that the oligarchial minority rule the masses and democracy is linear - top down. How else would the elite protect their wealth and power? If you want equality then go socialist in the purest Marxist sense. However, even that is impossible in the NEW *cough* global economy. Just look what happened to Nicuagra in the Reagocentric years. Do you really believe it can't happen here or it isn't happening here? Tell me otherwise when the DOJ settles with MS, and eventually AOL/TW and GE and IBM and any other monopolistic corporation. They'll play the game in the best interests of the players that count. To believe otherwise is naive.
There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.
Well then, maybe you should start climbing back down the trees and showing the users the leather balls you found up there, rather than taking away the bushes they're playing with down there... or maybe even fashion a rope or ladder in order to help them on their way up...
... seeing each other and their situation. If they were free to do so, they would break free of their chains and the cave and would overthrow the masters. So they had to kill anyone who broke free of their confines.
Interesting depiction of Plato's Republic but not quite complete. When he (Socrates) crawled out of the cave and saw the light he was blinded for some time but learned of all the beauty above as compared to all the bad in the cave. He knew he had to climb back down into the cave to tell his fellow men of the beauty above. When he did so, what do you think happened to him?
He was killed! The masters that had complete control over the masses (in the cave) could not allow their slaves to discover a better world. Could not let them see the truth and be free. In the cave the masses were chained to the walls of the cave where they lived a daily esistence of repetitive (specialized) routines. They could not see anything but shadows as there was a fire in the center of the cave that prevented them from seeing others as human beings. This prevented the masses from communicating
Our system of market democracy (which is neoliberal), is top-down democracy giving greater freedom to those of priviledge (rights of property as opposed to rights to property). The masses are permitted to enter the democratic process as "spectators" only and only those *respectable persons* may "participate" in the real decision making processes. Read more in Noam Chomsky's Profit Over People (1999).
This is why Microsoft will probably be able to squelch the GPL. It is anti-capitalist and gives the masses an alternative to so-called free market enterprise. And some of you actually cling to the thought that you live in a democratic society? There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
Ring true here?
You can download Mozilla, Opera, and Konqueror too but there are tons of incompatibilities because of the userbase that IE inherits by default.
:P
I can think of 1 offhand... Java Script!
LOLOLOLOL
Nuff said
Keep it up, Bill! Lease that software! Change those formats! Screw your customers till they're sick of it!
...
Ben H. Bagdikian, The Midia Monopoly.
Aww now why'd you have to go and let that outta the bag eh? You wouldn't wanna see billy-boi put it in reverse would you? heh
Freedom of choice in politics can be sustained only by freedom of choice in the mass media. The two cannot be separated
OT .. thanks for the link to freedom.org. I've bookmarked it :).
It's the availability of useful and well-marketed applications that drive the success of a given platform.
... ie ... without constantly failing. But I'll give M$ one thing ... they sure as hell have marketing down to an artform, now if only they would concentrate a wee bit more on quality they just might get it right.
:P
:P.
Operative word here is useful to the end user
Unfortunately, an application can be a buggy pile of garbage that runs on a rusty shitbox of an OS and still succeed: if it does something users need, and they can learn how to make it work well enough, then it can be sold.
That is the best example of M$'s business model I've seen in a long time
Insulting and alienating developers, companies and users who currently rely on Microsoft products is not a good way to make converts
M$ does a fine job of converting developers, companies, and users to Linux all by itself. It doesn't need our help at all
So, bash Microsoft all you like, until your head starts to bleed from banging it against a wall.
Gee thanks for permission but the only one I see bleeding lately is M$. Has anyone else noticed the increased demand for UNIX/Linux techies to convert NT to Linux O/S's lately? Interesting stuff.
Your energy is better spent developing and evangelizing [Like is that a new corporate buzz werd or something?] better solutions.
Well what the hay do you think the open-source community does exactly if it isn't developing better solutions? huh?
Not necessarily technically better, but better in the eyes of business customers, who often have concerns that might seem pretty alien to nerds,
And just what would those concerns be? Security? Reliability? Fair Market Price? Ownership (as opposed to subscriptions) of purchased and licensed software? Other? All these concerns are very real and have a everything to do with necessarily technically better. What else is there in the computer field? Oh wait a minute, maybe you were referring to the ongoing support of a prominent member of the "old boys club"? Sorry I'm a techie and I don't know dip shit about that kind of political b.s.
"Is this vendor large enough for us to sue if something goes wrong?"
Geezus and you defend this line of thinking? Who was it that said Capitalism was designed to implode". BOOM!
I don't see MS as evil. They are ruthless, arrogant, satisfied with nothing but complete victory, and unparticular about the means they use to achieve it"
Including putting out a series of products that are shamefully inadequate to business and home PC users alike. As mentioned above, M$ doesn't need any help from the open-source community (or anyone else) to bring it's evil empire crashing down. They're doing a fine job all by themselves.
I'd love to see someone give Microsoft a good fight.
Linux!
Sig borrowed from another slashdot groupie:Linux *is* user friendly *not* idiot-friendly!
What is Foozball registered @hotmail? Tell you what. I'll give you some valid Canadian postal codes to use if you give me some valid Merican ones :P What am I saying here? I don't even use Microscrap. Slackware Rulz.
... why would anyone develop for M$.
Why would anyone want to pay to develop for M$? Better yet
'The lame chatrooms and even more lame homepage are not going to do much good here. Id like to see something like "oh, you are looking for song a, here it is and btw you might like that band, too". Something in a better whats related style.
..."
... although they too are available. Tell you what dude, you pay your $.02 worth and tell me all about when you feel used again.
.. if it weren't for Chat channels on IRC and websites (friends and link sites) I would have missed out on tons of really great music. Ever heard of the Watchmen ... Silent Radar? I didn't think so! D/L them and get some really good music for free then attend their concerts :).
and you'll want them to butter your toast for you too huh? Try getting out of your wee lil paradigm and trying the myriad of GREAT artists that don't get radio play or promos from the industry. You might be pleasantly surprised and even broaden your mind.
"and if the "other" (non-Napsterized) music labels see these labels eating on their piece of the cake they might want to buy into the whole Napster thing, too. And this would be good for everybody. And yes, I will pay for the service and so should you
Why would I pay for music I can listen to on the AM radio stations? The whole idea of the MP3 distro's is to distribute a variety of music from a variety of artists, not just the industry sanctioned artists
PS
Whatever happened to no money no candy?
Exactly! and Napster will be laughing all the way to the bank LOL ^5 Napster :).
.. even the storage of masters ... that's not fast money and so the recording industry wants no part of it. The record companies are only interested in the CURRENT fast moving music .. like what you can tape off the AM radio stations LOL. Oh yea they might keep the best hits (#1s) to redistribute as package cd's like greatest hits this and that and NOW records. Gimmie a f'n break!
.... MP3s came out in 1987, we heard about it in 1997 and we tried to litigate the technology to death. Woe is we
It would cost the 150 record companies a fortune to revive the "source tapes" it stored away, lost or got destroyed over the years to even vaguely supply the music EX napster users are really after.
Most downloads of mp3s are rare albums and cd's which the record companies did not retain the digital masters for. Inventory costs money
It's the record collectors (ordinary joes) that supply the MP3 sites with the REAL music and Napster knows that so hey why not sign a dead-end-deal with 150 labels and get some payola back for their grief hehe.
Now about the artists... there is at least a 3% royalty on all CDRs sold that was SUPPOSED to go into a digital fund for the artists! Does anyone know where this cash went? Maybe it's all tied up in those Beverly Hills mansions someone mentioned.
The unplayed, unshelved and great artists that the record companies (as a whole) reject do not stand a chance on the NEW Napster anymore than they did in the status-quo. That's the MAIN reason free music sites will thrive over anything the recording industry proposes or realizes.
So how do the artists get paid for their music? By us! How long will CDR mfg's stay afloat if they do not divy up the profits among artists? Will they go the same route as the recording industry is now? Chances are real good. How about live shows and music discussions (also mentioned above), will that not work to pay the artists in the long run? My bet is yes. It won't be fast, easy money, but then only the serious artists will survive and that's not half bad.
The epitath of the recording industry should read long
AOL, TimeWarner, and Microshaft = ATM ATM= Automatically Transmitted Messages TM that one unless TM is already TM'd :P
... my application for employment at Slashdot :P
"If we have the best weapons, no one will attack us. If they do, the war will be quick and they will be dead with minimal losses on our side. How is that wrong?"
...
underestimate the so-called ENEMY. Let's rephrase that for a moment ... "no one will attack us" (
...
faceless, nameless, non-humans on the other SIDE of the conflict.
... Japan's or China's or those in the Arab nations? Scary thought.
What if the USA does what it has historically done in all wars they've been involved with
ok so terrorism - or retaliation - never happens right?) and the rest of the world is in the dark ages right? No other nation has nuclear capability, they're just the ENEMY
Let's examine our high school grads to let's say
and "they will be dead with minimal losses on our side"
Or we will all be dead because the pompus USA has again underestimated the other side.
Sig: Join the military, travel the world, meet nice people, Kill them.
Until M$ invests and then it's "get those damned Linux machines out of here... M$ does clustering too *cough*. Oh well it was good while it lasted and then there will be another search engine based on the same structure as Google and they'll go public etc etc etc.