It is important to note, that for the PKG format (Solaris, etc) that System V does not define certain functionality, but the system vendor may include it. I know that Solaris does support ghost files, editable config files, virtual packages and boolean dependancies, but the chart doesn't reflect this.
Not that this helps out the Linux community in the slightest...;)
I still think Apple's (NeXT's) App format is still the best. A complete archive including all features and bits of an app that can be moved around at will.
I'm really supprised that no one has brought up that this most likely isn't a hack at all.
The IP range the author posted was within C2 Media's domain, a web image service (with notable links to spyware, see here http://forums.networknews.co.uk/thread.jsp?forum=2 &thread=4307). Would it even be beyond the unthinkable that the ISP redirected content through a set of caching-load balancing proxies to speed up their web user's download times (or enabling the aforementioned spyware)? Or that they might be using the DNS subdomains for a 3rd party integration project, such as with C2 media? This is a common enough practice when adding outside vendor's networks, especially for content caching.
The SSH key mis-representation is a little unsettling, but not out the of norm, if you were to attempt a load-balancing solution and not get it right the first time. This is consistant with the above theory. As well, the SSH solution might have been necessary for the admin's of the site, and since you are in the distinct minority still using a shell account and SSH to read your mail, that the admins decided that the trouble for a random user was not a big enough concern to care.
As for the ISP's response, they might have blown you off because you were pointing out something to them that wasn't the case?
Just pointing out that more often than not, it's people's (read ISP) own stupidity that is to blame, not the forces of evil. Well, maybe if you consider stupid people to be evil.
Does it surprise anyone that as we progress as a nation, more and more restraints are placed on workers and tools of success are removed?
All you have to do is look at Enron, the poster-child for this movement. Over the last 30 years, power has moved from the populace via the Government, to corporations via soft money. We are all working for their greed, and unlike the past, that greed does not represent gain for the rest of the economy.
We are now at the mercy of corporations and their greed. No longer do we have protection from these entities overstepping their bounds, just ask your insurance agency, bank or credit card company to stop spreading around your personal private financial information. They will tell you that doing so lowers prices, but in actuality increases premiums for those with poor reports, that may not be totally under their control, yet does not empirically lower your outlay.
More and more money is being extracted from us to feed the elite who control the multi-nationals. Every action taken in the name of efficiency by a corporation is simply to reduce costs to improve shareholder (preferred that is) wealth. Why do you think that the free markets of the world are moving towards non-tangible means to measure a company's wealth? The simple answer is because without a real standard to base stock prices on, they can effectively move more money to traders of large blocks of stock and to not pay dividends. Again, ask yourself why people's 401K's were raped when the economy lost it's verve? Because the smaller trading houses that needed leverage to compete against the large houses were locked out of salvaging their investments, which the analysts who made millions for their partners with large trading-block control suddenly couldn't predict the downturn.
This trend indicates an exhaustion of opportunity and moral resources that will push America to the brink of annihilation. Because of the loss of strengths such as egalitarianism and social consciousness, we are left to believe that the current economic climate of layoffs and the trend towards outsourcing is just and makes financial sense.
The adage today is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. While the reports are that there are more millionaires today than ever before is factually correct, look at why that is, and you should be astonished. Corporations are creating a welfare state that is dependant on credit, and sanctioning increases in salary, while simultaniously seeking to raise prices to keep people happy and convinced that we are making great strides in the capitolization of our workers. But in actuality, we are devaluing our populace because corporations are free to seek greener pastures instead of forming a symbiotic relationship with the country that spawned them.
Before this post takes a Matrix or Marxist bend, I suggest that you all read "Atlas Shrugged." I think it's time to start the dismantling of our corporate infrastructure in favor of a more just set of relationships.
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. Kernel, what kernel. Monolithic kernels are just so tired.
Now, let me just apply patch 108528-666, and I'll be able to turn off the sarcasm.;)
Seriously though, not having to re-compile or upgrade kernels is sort of nice in the Solaris world. I wish Linus would just admit that modular kernals are just sooo much cooler.
Don't get me started on my HP-UX machines though...
System: You have decided to rmdir a directory, shall I build a new kernel for you.
System: Shall I place it in/stand and corrupt myself?
User: What the hell, I feel like living dangerously
I would agree with you...but you are only half right. I was in the middle of everything from before the boom, and still in it.
I know a hell of a lot of engineers that worked their asses off during the bubble. What I saw more of, however, was a lot of barely-got-my-mba types who wanted to drive their Ferrari's and schmooze and didn't know whack about managing a company, or what a business plan was.
It was this class of individual that ruined the economy, not the engineers. So, I would agree with you that the execs should be put in the circular file, but there are still some solid engineers out there looking desperately for work that do have proven track records marred by the dot.com bubble.
I would be careful of putting yourself on such a high pedistal...are you sure that you didn't profit from the bubble too?
What makes this TCO "comparison" even more suspect is that the guy is quoting near-list prices for much of the equipment.
Last time I checked, Universities get VERY large educational discounts on gear from Sun and Microsoft (and maybe Dell). So much so, that you couldn't guess the outcome without looking at the purchase orders on a case by case basis.
Sun has used AMD CPU's before, although not in the primetime in their servers. They did use them in the SunPCi cards for workstations. I still have one.
The reason that Sun used AMD (the K6-2, I believe) instead of a Pentium, like they did with the SunPCi 2, is that at the time it made more sense price-wise. I see no difference here.
I consider myself a computer junkie, and I also have a smaller version of said company's cars. While I was waiting for the service to be finished one day, I hopped into a new 745i that they had on the floor.
The car is a real technology lover's paradise: active suspension, GPS, umpteen dozen little controls over everwhere. And yes, there is a key, but it's just a little puck that you insert into the dash. It has it's own little computer and calculates rolling security codes on the fly to foil car theives.
Now about the only thing I didn't like was the stinking iDrive system. It just plain sucks!! It way to hard to control things that I used to be able to push a button and do. Like surfing through three levels of menus just to turn on the defroster. Stupid.
The interface itself is ok, the button is hard to get used to becuase it is a joystick and wheel/button in one. And when you do something illegal it vibrates. Slick enough, but the interface is god awful.
Luckily this thing controls non-critical functions, I could see lawsuits brought if it controlled the gear selection or traction system.
Someone also told me that the software inside the iDrive is actually WinCE, can anyone verify this? If so, it would be truly a MS car after all.
BMW has a good track record of innovation, but I think this is a serious detour.
I read through the lightwatcher.com article, and one item in particular doesn't make sense to me.
Prof. Mallett theorizes:
"Mallett's theory is anchored in the gravitational field caused by forming a laser beam into a circle. The strength of gravity caused by the light circle causes a twisting of space. So if you put a particle in the middle of the light loop, it would be dragged around by this gravitational force, much like the eddies created when you stir a spoon in a cup of coffee."
Doesn't the construct of light causing localized gravity fluxuations seem backwards? I thought that it was understood that gravity can bend light/time, but how does bending light cause gravity? Relativity states that mass bends space-time and hence causes gravity as a result. Since photons have no mass (the reason they can travel at the speed of light), how are they ever going to accrete enough mass to alter gravity and space-time?
How does a photon that has had its trajectory bent induce changes in anything except the photon?
I would like to think that humans could at least limit the amount of technology and capability that goes into its creations. But the fact remains, if we give the machines the ability to procreate and self-replicate, we are also giving them the ability of evolution, which once given will conceivably allow for the time when humans will be rendered obsolete.
BTW, I believe that human/machine/computer integration is inescapable due to what might be just another stage in our evolution.
Actually, Solaris 8 isn't so bad in any of the areas that you mention. I have worked on a quite a few of these systems, including my two Ultra 60 compile boxes. You should give it a try.
VxFS isn't that fast either. Has anyone tried porting XFS to Solaris yet?
As for not working well on less than 8 CPU's, make it 2 and I'll agree:)
This is so very true.
By my own limited testing of Linux (RedHat 7, 2.2 Kernel) on a PIII 600 against a Sun Netra t1 105 (440MHz USII) running solaris shows this:
Linux gcc 2.9.2 compile of openssl 0.9.6a ~ 4 minutes
Solaris 8 gcc 2.9.2 same compile ~ 5.5 minutes
Running make-test on the above binaries:
Linux was approximately 20% faster.
Using Sun's C Compiler the build took 2x longer, but the performance difference in 32-bit mode was under 10%. In 64-bit mode, the difference went back up to 18%.
I have always assumed that a 440MHz USII is approximately as fast as a 600-733 MHz PIII, but maybe I'm a little off.
After this, I can definately say that gcc does less useful optimizations on the sparc paltform (and therefore most likely PPC as well).
I still haven't figured out why the Sun compilers takes twice as long to compile the same code though...
Slashdot Mirror
It is important to note, that for the PKG format (Solaris, etc) that System V does not define certain functionality, but the system vendor may include it. I know that Solaris does support ghost files, editable config files, virtual packages and boolean dependancies, but the chart doesn't reflect this.
;)
.02
Not that this helps out the Linux community in the slightest...
I still think Apple's (NeXT's) App format is still the best. A complete archive including all features and bits of an app that can be moved around at will.
My
The IP range the author posted was within C2 Media's domain, a web image service (with notable links to spyware, see here http://forums.networknews.co.uk/thread.jsp?forum=2 &thread=4307). Would it even be beyond the unthinkable that the ISP redirected content through a set of caching-load balancing proxies to speed up their web user's download times (or enabling the aforementioned spyware)? Or that they might be using the DNS subdomains for a 3rd party integration project, such as with C2 media? This is a common enough practice when adding outside vendor's networks, especially for content caching.
The SSH key mis-representation is a little unsettling, but not out the of norm, if you were to attempt a load-balancing solution and not get it right the first time. This is consistant with the above theory. As well, the SSH solution might have been necessary for the admin's of the site, and since you are in the distinct minority still using a shell account and SSH to read your mail, that the admins decided that the trouble for a random user was not a big enough concern to care.
As for the ISP's response, they might have blown you off because you were pointing out something to them that wasn't the case?
Just pointing out that more often than not, it's people's (read ISP) own stupidity that is to blame, not the forces of evil. Well, maybe if you consider stupid people to be evil.
It's simply profit taking.
Big business doesn't want to listen to it's customers, so they pay off their politician friends to pass laws to prevent them from loosing money.
What was that about free market economies again?
IANAC (I am not a communist)
Does it surprise anyone that as we progress as a nation, more and more restraints are placed on workers and tools of success are removed?
All you have to do is look at Enron, the poster-child for this movement. Over the last 30 years, power has moved from the populace via the Government, to corporations via soft money. We are all working for their greed, and unlike the past, that greed does not represent gain for the rest of the economy.
We are now at the mercy of corporations and their greed. No longer do we have protection from these entities overstepping their bounds, just ask your insurance agency, bank or credit card company to stop spreading around your personal private financial information. They will tell you that doing so lowers prices, but in actuality increases premiums for those with poor reports, that may not be totally under their control, yet does not empirically lower your outlay.
More and more money is being extracted from us to feed the elite who control the multi-nationals. Every action taken in the name of efficiency by a corporation is simply to reduce costs to improve shareholder (preferred that is) wealth. Why do you think that the free markets of the world are moving towards non-tangible means to measure a company's wealth? The simple answer is because without a real standard to base stock prices on, they can effectively move more money to traders of large blocks of stock and to not pay dividends. Again, ask yourself why people's 401K's were raped when the economy lost it's verve? Because the smaller trading houses that needed leverage to compete against the large houses were locked out of salvaging their investments, which the analysts who made millions for their partners with large trading-block control suddenly couldn't predict the downturn.
This trend indicates an exhaustion of opportunity and moral resources that will push America to the brink of annihilation. Because of the loss of strengths such as egalitarianism and social consciousness, we are left to believe that the current economic climate of layoffs and the trend towards outsourcing is just and makes financial sense.
The adage today is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. While the reports are that there are more millionaires today than ever before is factually correct, look at why that is, and you should be astonished. Corporations are creating a welfare state that is dependant on credit, and sanctioning increases in salary, while simultaniously seeking to raise prices to keep people happy and convinced that we are making great strides in the capitolization of our workers. But in actuality, we are devaluing our populace because corporations are free to seek greener pastures instead of forming a symbiotic relationship with the country that spawned them.
Before this post takes a Matrix or Marxist bend, I suggest that you all read "Atlas Shrugged." I think it's time to start the dismantling of our corporate infrastructure in favor of a more just set of relationships.
Just another bit of evidence to add to the case that the world is overpopulated, and needs to reduce number of human inhabitants.
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. Kernel, what kernel. Monolithic kernels are just so tired.
Now, let me just apply patch 108528-666, and I'll be able to turn off the sarcasm. ;)
Seriously though, not having to re-compile or upgrade kernels is sort of nice in the Solaris world. I wish Linus would just admit that modular kernals are just sooo much cooler.
Don't get me started on my HP-UX machines though...
System: You have decided to rmdir a directory, shall I build a new kernel for you.
System: Shall I place it in /stand and corrupt myself?
User: What the hell, I feel like living dangerously
I would agree with you...but you are only half right. I was in the middle of everything from before the boom, and still in it.
I know a hell of a lot of engineers that worked their asses off during the bubble. What I saw more of, however, was a lot of barely-got-my-mba types who wanted to drive their Ferrari's and schmooze and didn't know whack about managing a company, or what a business plan was.
It was this class of individual that ruined the economy, not the engineers. So, I would agree with you that the execs should be put in the circular file, but there are still some solid engineers out there looking desperately for work that do have proven track records marred by the dot.com bubble.
I would be careful of putting yourself on such a high pedistal...are you sure that you didn't profit from the bubble too?
Mod the parent up. Insightful.
What makes this TCO "comparison" even more suspect is that the guy is quoting near-list prices for much of the equipment.
Last time I checked, Universities get VERY large educational discounts on gear from Sun and Microsoft (and maybe Dell). So much so, that you couldn't guess the outcome without looking at the purchase orders on a case by case basis.
Smells of bunk to me.
Sun has used AMD CPU's before, although not in the primetime in their servers. They did use them in the SunPCi cards for workstations. I still have one.
The reason that Sun used AMD (the K6-2, I believe) instead of a Pentium, like they did with the SunPCi 2, is that at the time it made more sense price-wise. I see no difference here.
What ADV titles are don't make use of content control?
I have other movies and anime that don't, but ADV doesn't strike me as the philanthropic type.
The car is a real technology lover's paradise: active suspension, GPS, umpteen dozen little controls over everwhere. And yes, there is a key, but it's just a little puck that you insert into the dash. It has it's own little computer and calculates rolling security codes on the fly to foil car theives.
Now about the only thing I didn't like was the stinking iDrive system. It just plain sucks!! It way to hard to control things that I used to be able to push a button and do. Like surfing through three levels of menus just to turn on the defroster. Stupid.
The interface itself is ok, the button is hard to get used to becuase it is a joystick and wheel/button in one. And when you do something illegal it vibrates. Slick enough, but the interface is god awful.
Luckily this thing controls non-critical functions, I could see lawsuits brought if it controlled the gear selection or traction system.
Someone also told me that the software inside the iDrive is actually WinCE, can anyone verify this? If so, it would be truly a MS car after all.
BMW has a good track record of innovation, but I think this is a serious detour.
I read through the lightwatcher.com article, and one item in particular doesn't make sense to me.
Prof. Mallett theorizes:
"Mallett's theory is anchored in the gravitational field caused by forming a laser beam into a circle. The strength of gravity caused by the light circle causes a twisting of space. So if you put a particle in the middle of the light loop, it would be dragged around by this gravitational force, much like the eddies created when you stir a spoon in a cup of coffee."
Doesn't the construct of light causing localized gravity fluxuations seem backwards? I thought that it was understood that gravity can bend light/time, but how does bending light cause gravity? Relativity states that mass bends space-time and hence causes gravity as a result. Since photons have no mass (the reason they can travel at the speed of light), how are they ever going to accrete enough mass to alter gravity and space-time?
How does a photon that has had its trajectory bent induce changes in anything except the photon?
I just don't understand.
But what about when machines have been given control over their own replication.
See here, here and here.
I would like to think that humans could at least limit the amount of technology and capability that goes into its creations. But the fact remains, if we give the machines the ability to procreate and self-replicate, we are also giving them the ability of evolution, which once given will conceivably allow for the time when humans will be rendered obsolete.
BTW, I believe that human/machine/computer integration is inescapable due to what might be just another stage in our evolution.
xen
Actually, Solaris 8 isn't so bad in any of the areas that you mention. I have worked on a quite a few of these systems, including my two Ultra 60 compile boxes. You should give it a try.
:)
VxFS isn't that fast either. Has anyone tried porting XFS to Solaris yet?
As for not working well on less than 8 CPU's, make it 2 and I'll agree
This is so very true. By my own limited testing of Linux (RedHat 7, 2.2 Kernel) on a PIII 600 against a Sun Netra t1 105 (440MHz USII) running solaris shows this: Linux gcc 2.9.2 compile of openssl 0.9.6a ~ 4 minutes Solaris 8 gcc 2.9.2 same compile ~ 5.5 minutes Running make-test on the above binaries: Linux was approximately 20% faster. Using Sun's C Compiler the build took 2x longer, but the performance difference in 32-bit mode was under 10%. In 64-bit mode, the difference went back up to 18%. I have always assumed that a 440MHz USII is approximately as fast as a 600-733 MHz PIII, but maybe I'm a little off. After this, I can definately say that gcc does less useful optimizations on the sparc paltform (and therefore most likely PPC as well). I still haven't figured out why the Sun compilers takes twice as long to compile the same code though...