Exactly my point. I hope RMS is paying attention, because this has potentially devistating consequences to anything released under the GPL to this point. I think we need an addendum immediately, and a big push to let everyone know to upgrade to the new version. However, there's lots(obviously) of source code in the wild that I fear is unprotected. This could be a Very Bad Thing.
I disagree with your interpretation, specifically "that is: it must be supplied together with the binaries at the same time. If the software is distributed without source, then it is in violation of the license agreement." I disagree because of the written offer, which doesn't specify a timeline. Under close scrutiny I'm not so sure the GPL (in which I've placed much faith[and I emphasize faith, as it still has not had its day of scrutiny in court]) will hold up, almost specifically because of the timeline issue. Also the fact that if no GPL version is specified, the holder of the source/binary can use ANY of the GPLs, at his/her discretion. That could very well make everything GPLd to this point moot.
Where is that line in the GPL, I did a search and couldn't find it. We're talking about a court case pertaining to a legal document. Where in this "contract" does it say that "You have to make the source code available the moment you begin distributing the GPLed software"? Please show me where, as I can't find it.
Using the "strong" tag doesn't make you look correct, and it certainly doesn't stand up in court. Of course, IINAL, but I think that's obvious.
You can add all that you want, you can ad a README that says you can't distribute the software. I'm sure they included the GPL with the packages, saying source code will be available later doesn't violate the GPL. Just like putting a sign in a public locker room saying "we're not responsible for lost or stolen articles" doesn't relieve an entity of responsibility. As long as they included the original copyright(left/gpl) it is legal, as far as I can tell.
or should I say, the time-frame, according to section 3(b) that they have three years to deliver? As far as I can tell, NuSphere is complying to the letter of the GPL, if not the true meaning of the GPL.
It is also acceptable for the license to require that, if you have distributed a modified version and a previous developer asks for a copy of it, you must send one. and also... 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
I don't see, anywhere in the liscense, a timeline specified as to when any changes to source code must be supplied. Anyone know of a quote from the GPL that specifies that the source must be made available at the time of binary release? AFAIK, they don't have to release the code to anyone who doesn't specifically request it, and who has a copy of the binaries; and I don't think time-frame is brought into it.
Um, when's the last time you installed linux, not being given a choice of at least three file-systems, including vfat? OK, now, when's the last time you installed Windows and were given a choice of filesystem, besides vfat? Now, when WinXP/2005(?) comes out, do you anticipate being able to put it on lots of different OSs, or just the RDBMS-FS that that WinWhatever is based around? Have you not paid attention to the teeter-taughter going on? Wake up.
Do you think that MS doesn't make money on IE/OE/WMP? Ever see the AOL interface? Do you think they were able to modify IE for free? OE is a conduit to sell versions of Outlook, and if you think for a second that they didn't get tons of money to work DRM into WMP you're kidding yourself. Microsoft makes lots of money directly from the users. It makes lots of money screwing the consumers, too. You can't compare M$'s giving IE away to Sun charging for SO. They started giving IE away to kill Netscape, which used to charge, until they could no longer; thanks to M$. Good for Sun for trying to gain a profit from a $280M transition, while at the same time giving us "Mozilla"(OO).
I'm sure you've got better things to do than explain a month-old 'out of context' quote to everyone, but I really appreciated seeing you jump into the fray, as always. I have a question for you that has nothing to do with Mono... Have you tried the Rox file-manager/desktop? What are your impressions? I've just started using it, and love the direction it's going. Do you think we might see a 'gnome-lite' ditching some of the heavies like Nautilus for Rox or equivelent? I know I can obviously do this on my own without you; but I'm really curious what your impression of Rox is. I run a tiny little project we've dubbed The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project and I'm concidering ditching GNOME and KDE for the fast-as-hell Rox with sawfish/pygtk. Your impressions/comments are highly anticipated. Thanks.
Check this out... ActiveSync ensures that information on your Smartphone is consistent with your work or home PC desktop or server over-the-air. Once synced, your Homescreen gives you simple access to the latest information, such as appointments, number of new emails and SMS text messages. This says to me that you sync 'over-the-air' with Microsoft servers and when you go to your "Homescreen"(i.e.MSN) you access the info from your home or work PC. Seems a sneaky wording as to not raise red flags. I'm raising one now... RED FLAG, RED FLAG!!
He also makes it clear the it wouldn't work unless they went into OEM contracts, and that they're the only ones who could do it. He said specifically that he wasn't talking about just shoving it on store shelves next to Linux. Sounds to me like you have an agenda when you leave out his answer to your argument.
I disagree, I think you're thinking of if it were Warez/stolen source code. If the code is public record, it's public record, i.e. not stolen by a group of Russian kiddies which is the last time I heard that arguement.
Once it goes through publication of the source code (if it's on an open record) we should get the same basic effect as DECSS, should we not? Once the corporate secret is public knowledge, it can be used by wine/samba/openoffice/whatever for higher compatability rates. Once the cat is out of the bag, it's no longer protected; however, you couldn't use the code directly. Public knowledge of what's in the code doesn't change their liscence. But you could definately find all the hooks/hidden APIs and such. Go States!
Hey, check this out...
on
OpenMosix
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
For you Mandrake users, I head a project to include LTSP and Mosix on a Mandrake configured kernel; to package and explain in very easy terms the whole process, and then eventually release a stripped-down Mdk, geared towards education (edu-tech is pretty much my field) ala K12 LTSP. We call it The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project. Check it out and lend a hand if interested. Thanks.
First off, who the hell are you to call this poster a 'moron'? Secondly, both ReplayTV an Tivo tried talking sense to the networks a long time ago. The networks are the ones that wont budge on their positions. Why should we cater to their antiquated business model? They need to change to keep up with the times/keep up their profits. Why should it be technology's responsibility to fall between the lines of what the networks consider appropriate? I'm sorry? You don't think it's time for a change? The first TV commercial was a 20-second ad for a Bulova clock, broadcasted by WNBT, New York during a game between the Brooklyn Dodgers and the Philadelphia Phillies in July 1941.Bulova paid $9 for that first TV spot. I think it's time for a change.
I'm trying to run a little thing we call The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project(We could use help) and I'm very interested in thin-client tech. The project is to further lower HW/server costs by adding process migration to the server/thin-clients. Imagine if we could also get USB mouse/keyboard support in there and shove about 4 pci vidcards in each box... get 4 heads from a $200 box(plus monitor/kb/mouse). Wow... think I'm going to login to testdrive and start compiling kernels.:)
Three of those are the exact same article, about this current fine. The last one is miniscule at best...
In May 1999 Swedish authorities fined Credit Suisse First Boston 2 million Swedish kronar because of an attempt by the Flaming Ferraris group of traders to manipulate the Swedish stock market index.
Alan praises Mosix a bit in this interview. A bunch of us from irc.openprojects.net are working on a project to package full install/configuration scripts first for Mandrake users, then for everyone. Come check us out at The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project, as you probably guessed, we're also working on packaging LTSP+Mosix script for LTSP 3.0 with the author of the original ltsp_mosix howto.
First, make sure that's where you drop the line.
on
Home Server Rooms?
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
You'll definately want your connection dropped to that room, that's my first suggestion, or you'll go nuts later and kick yourself forever. Depending on the number of 1/2U systems you'll be using, a short stack can be easily hidden in a custom made (well-ventilated) box in the corner, complete with slide out racks(think drawers). I assume you'd also have at least one more workstation in this room, prolly more than that by the sounds of it, for lan gaming when friends come over and such (as you probably don't want to leave them alone in your daughters room while you frag them from your cushy den:). What I would do is find a nice counter-top that you like and build a wrap-around counter on two of the walls, meeting at a corner; this leaves plenty of center room space for big-leather-rolly-chairs-wars. You can easily hide all the towers, UPSs and cables under the counter, leaving tons of leg room, with everything else up top(obviously). I cool mine(let's just say I hear what you're asking) with an hotel wall-mount AC, which I picked up cheap from a place that was about to be torn down, YMMV.
Plug everything in and invite the neighbors, cheers.
I'm trying to order one right now and it seems they've been/.ed. I just hope they haven't run out of them before my secure page actually renders. Basterds:)
Slashdot Mirror
Exactly my point. I hope RMS is paying attention, because this has potentially devistating consequences to anything released under the GPL to this point. I think we need an addendum immediately, and a big push to let everyone know to upgrade to the new version. However, there's lots(obviously) of source code in the wild that I fear is unprotected. This could be a Very Bad Thing.
I disagree with your interpretation, specifically "that is: it must be supplied together with the binaries at the same time. If the software is distributed without source, then it is in violation of the license agreement." I disagree because of the written offer, which doesn't specify a timeline. Under close scrutiny I'm not so sure the GPL (in which I've placed much faith[and I emphasize faith, as it still has not had its day of scrutiny in court]) will hold up, almost specifically because of the timeline issue. Also the fact that if no GPL version is specified, the holder of the source/binary can use ANY of the GPLs, at his/her discretion. That could very well make everything GPLd to this point moot.
Where is that line in the GPL, I did a search and couldn't find it. We're talking about a court case pertaining to a legal document. Where in this "contract" does it say that "You have to make the source code available the moment you begin distributing the GPLed software"? Please show me where, as I can't find it.
Using the "strong" tag doesn't make you look correct, and it certainly doesn't stand up in court.
Of course, IINAL, but I think that's obvious.
You can add all that you want, you can ad a README that says you can't distribute the software. I'm sure they included the GPL with the packages, saying source code will be available later doesn't violate the GPL. Just like putting a sign in a public locker room saying "we're not responsible for lost or stolen articles" doesn't relieve an entity of responsibility. As long as they included the original copyright(left/gpl) it is legal, as far as I can tell.
or should I say, the time-frame, according to section 3(b) that they have three years to deliver? As far as I can tell, NuSphere is complying to the letter of the GPL, if not the true meaning of the GPL.
It is also acceptable for the license to require that, if you have distributed a modified version and a previous developer asks for a copy of it, you must send one.
and also...
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
I don't see, anywhere in the liscense, a timeline specified as to when any changes to source code must be supplied. Anyone know of a quote from the GPL that specifies that the source must be made available at the time of binary release? AFAIK, they don't have to release the code to anyone who doesn't specifically request it, and who has a copy of the binaries; and I don't think time-frame is brought into it.
Um, when's the last time you installed linux, not being given a choice of at least three file-systems, including vfat? OK, now, when's the last time you installed Windows and were given a choice of filesystem, besides vfat? Now, when WinXP/2005(?) comes out, do you anticipate being able to put it on lots of different OSs, or just the RDBMS-FS that that WinWhatever is based around? Have you not paid attention to the teeter-taughter going on? Wake up.
Do you think that MS doesn't make money on IE/OE/WMP? Ever see the AOL interface? Do you think they were able to modify IE for free? OE is a conduit to sell versions of Outlook, and if you think for a second that they didn't get tons of money to work DRM into WMP you're kidding yourself. Microsoft makes lots of money directly from the users. It makes lots of money screwing the consumers, too. You can't compare M$'s giving IE away to Sun charging for SO. They started giving IE away to kill Netscape, which used to charge, until they could no longer; thanks to M$. Good for Sun for trying to gain a profit from a $280M transition, while at the same time giving us "Mozilla"(OO).
I'm sure you've got better things to do than explain a month-old 'out of context' quote to everyone, but I really appreciated seeing you jump into the fray, as always. I have a question for you that has nothing to do with Mono... Have you tried the Rox file-manager/desktop? What are your impressions? I've just started using it, and love the direction it's going. Do you think we might see a 'gnome-lite' ditching some of the heavies like Nautilus for Rox or equivelent? I know I can obviously do this on my own without you; but I'm really curious what your impression of Rox is. I run a tiny little project we've dubbed The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project and I'm concidering ditching GNOME and KDE for the fast-as-hell Rox with sawfish/pygtk. Your impressions/comments are highly anticipated. Thanks.
Check this out...
ActiveSync ensures that information on your Smartphone is consistent with your work or home PC desktop or server over-the-air. Once synced, your Homescreen gives you simple access to the latest information, such as appointments, number of new emails and SMS text messages.
This says to me that you sync 'over-the-air' with Microsoft servers and when you go to your "Homescreen"(i.e.MSN) you access the info from your home or work PC. Seems a sneaky wording as to not raise red flags. I'm raising one now... RED FLAG, RED FLAG!!
He also makes it clear the it wouldn't work unless they went into OEM contracts, and that they're the only ones who could do it. He said specifically that he wasn't talking about just shoving it on store shelves next to Linux. Sounds to me like you have an agenda when you leave out his answer to your argument.
But if they're techno weenies they should be able to just move Aqua to Darwin and would be fine, since they legally purchased Aqua. :)
I disagree, I think you're thinking of if it were Warez/stolen source code. If the code is public record, it's public record, i.e. not stolen by a group of Russian kiddies which is the last time I heard that arguement.
Once it goes through publication of the source code (if it's on an open record) we should get the same basic effect as DECSS, should we not? Once the corporate secret is public knowledge, it can be used by wine/samba/openoffice/whatever for higher compatability rates. Once the cat is out of the bag, it's no longer protected; however, you couldn't use the code directly. Public knowledge of what's in the code doesn't change their liscence. But you could definately find all the hooks/hidden APIs and such. Go States!
For you Mandrake users, I head a project to include LTSP and Mosix on a Mandrake configured kernel; to package and explain in very easy terms the whole process, and then eventually release a stripped-down Mdk, geared towards education (edu-tech is pretty much my field) ala K12 LTSP. We call it The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project. Check it out and lend a hand if interested. Thanks.
First off, who the hell are you to call this poster a 'moron'? Secondly, both ReplayTV an Tivo tried talking sense to the networks a long time ago. The networks are the ones that wont budge on their positions. Why should we cater to their antiquated business model? They need to change to keep up with the times/keep up their profits. Why should it be technology's responsibility to fall between the lines of what the networks consider appropriate? I'm sorry? You don't think it's time for a change?
The first TV commercial was a 20-second ad for a Bulova clock, broadcasted by WNBT, New York during a game between the Brooklyn Dodgers and the Philadelphia Phillies in July 1941.Bulova paid $9 for that first TV spot.
I think it's time for a change.
I'm trying to run a little thing we call The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project(We could use help) and I'm very interested in thin-client tech. The project is to further lower HW/server costs by adding process migration to the server/thin-clients. Imagine if we could also get USB mouse/keyboard support in there and shove about 4 pci vidcards in each box... get 4 heads from a $200 box(plus monitor/kb/mouse). Wow... think I'm going to login to testdrive and start compiling kernels. :)
accept that wildtangent is also spyware .
Three of those are the exact same article, about this current fine. The last one is miniscule at best...
In May 1999 Swedish authorities fined Credit Suisse First Boston 2 million Swedish kronar because of an attempt by the Flaming Ferraris group of traders to manipulate the Swedish stock market index.
Why don't we make that um, LTSP interest, since that's what I meant, sorry...
Alan praises Mosix a bit in this interview. A bunch of us from irc.openprojects.net are working on a project to package full install/configuration scripts first for Mandrake users, then for everyone. Come check us out at The Mandrake Mosix Terminal Server Project, as you probably guessed, we're also working on packaging LTSP+Mosix script for LTSP 3.0 with the author of the original ltsp_mosix howto.
Not Expressed Written Consent :)
You'll definately want your connection dropped to that room, that's my first suggestion, or you'll go nuts later and kick yourself forever. Depending on the number of 1/2U systems you'll be using, a short stack can be easily hidden in a custom made (well-ventilated) box in the corner, complete with slide out racks(think drawers). I assume you'd also have at least one more workstation in this room, prolly more than that by the sounds of it, for lan gaming when friends come over and such (as you probably don't want to leave them alone in your daughters room while you frag them from your cushy den:). What I would do is find a nice counter-top that you like and build a wrap-around counter on two of the walls, meeting at a corner; this leaves plenty of center room space for big-leather-rolly-chairs-wars. You can easily hide all the towers, UPSs and cables under the counter, leaving tons of leg room, with everything else up top(obviously). I cool mine(let's just say I hear what you're asking) with an hotel wall-mount AC, which I picked up cheap from a place that was about to be torn down, YMMV.
Plug everything in and invite the neighbors, cheers.
Slashdot is not the linux community. If it were, Linux would never stand a chance:)
I'm trying to order one right now and it seems they've been /.ed. I just hope they haven't run out of them before my secure page actually renders. Basterds :)