This is a perfect use for SVG graphics. For any (non-photographic) images or logos, use an SVG graphic, and scale it according to the fonts size needed.
By embedding the font you need in the SVG graphic itself, you are not limited to the fonts on the user's system, either.
First off, let me say that I have toyed around with the Corel SmartGraphics Studio, and I think that it's a very good first pass at simplifying the process of creating SVG for a lot of users. As a big fan of SVG, I appreciate all the effort that Corel has put forth.
That being said, I think that the Open Source community should know that dSVG is only one of three UI-defining proposals that the SVG Working Group is considering for SVG 1.2. One of the other two, currently known as RCC, proposes the ability to create a kind of template with a separation of style and functionality, but defined in the document rather than being built in the plug-in. Ultimately, I think that this is a better way to go, since it is far more adaptable. It uses scripting and an XSLT-like syntax to transform semantic content into graphical elements (like form controls, scrollbars, etc.). The last proposal, Live Templates, seems like a generalized case of RCC, and I suspect they could be married together.
Adobe has released a tech preview of ASV6, the next version of their plugin (Windows only for now). It implements an early version of RCC (as well as some other cool features like text wrapping, audio, video, and external resources), and looks very promising. At SVG-Open, I saw an RCC forms widget toolkit for SVG, which worked well and weighed in at all of 6KB. I also saw ASV6pr working on a Linux box, and with the latest build of Mozilla. It's still buggy, but it's more conformant to the Spec than ever.
May the best spec proposal win!
In other news, the excellent Batik (an OSS SVG toolkit) also released a stable 1.5 last week.
Where are you shopping? Do you specifically fly to another country to buy imported CDs from the US? Oh, wait, maybe you mean $20 Canadian...
In the music stores I frequent, CDs are, on the average, around $12-13. (Granted, I usually go to locally-owned shops, rather than chains, both for the low prices and to support the locals.)
That's only around 16-23% savings, and then only if the CD has fewer than 10 tracks. Rather a feeble discount, considering all the hassles involved. And I'll have that CD 10 years from now, having listened to it wherever I want, which is most likely about 5 times how long you'll have your lossy copy.
Unless, of course, I sell it... another thing you can't do.
Last week, Corel announced a preview plugin (Windows only, for now), so Adobe isn't the only game in town.
They also have a gallery with some neat SVG samples.
The guy knows enough to use an tag inside his tag, so it works across browsers, but he can't supply some alt-text saying, "You must have the Flash plug-in to view this site; get it here"?
For that matter, there was nothing about this site that called for the use of Flash: no music, no animation or movies, no multimedia of any kind. It could have been done just as easily, and more accessibly (with a smaller download), in HTML+CSS. Flash and SVG are great solutions *when there's a problem* to be solved! Seems like overkill to use them as a default, and not provide a text+image fallback.
Not bad mods, though, especially the Furby face and open CD-ROM. And the commentary was pretty entertaining.
"...is not disseminating..."
I think you mean "...is now disseminating...". Wouldn't be very big news if the industry was failing to conform to a practice that they had never done before... like charging reasonable prices or paying the artist fairly.
In other news, several major book publishers are distributing reviewer copies of their books with the pages glued together. And paying Oprah to rave about it, so there's no fear that it won't do well.
If you don't see a lot of people with the plug-in, you probably aren't looking.;-)
There are an estimated 167 million installations of version 2 of Adobe's viewer (it's bundled with Acrobat Reader 5). Most people just don't realize that they have it. When I show people SVG stuff, they've usually had the viewer installed.
That aside, I agree; Macromedia's move strikes me as lip-service. But it'd be nice to see more competition in that space, if it comes off.
...such as, the plug-in by Adobe, and the server-side Batik tools by Apache, as well as a few for handhelds. So I guess that Flash is not the be-all and end-all. Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude.
Incidentally, a talented Flash coder recently even used the Flash plug-in to render a portion of parsed SVG; however, since SVG has many features Flash lacks (such as filters and true text support), a full implementation is beyond the current Flash player (see links to the examples and an analysis here).
How long has Flash been around? Like 6 years? And how many authoring tools are there? Something like 3? How many viewers? Uh... one, right?
By contrast, SVG has been a W3C recommendation for all of 8 months, and I know of at least 4 aurhoring tools (not to mention the one I'm making right now, or numerous text editors) and 2 major viewers (along with a host of upcoming handheld viewers). Looks like open standards promote competition and innovation... who would have thought!?
Not to knock Flash... it has its uses. But before you commit to a technology on which to build a serious data-driven website with interactive graphics, do yourself a favor and check out SVG. The SVG-Wiki is a good place to start.
Can you supply any documentation for that, or are you --as it seems-- simply trolling? SVG is a W3C Recommendation, as of September 2001. Nuff said?
If you actually have a link, I'd be very interested in reading it. As it stands, I believe that SVG, like other W3C Recommendations (there are no W3C "Standards"), does NOT have any patent roadblocks. A Good Thing, indeed.
Uh... maybe you'd better check your facts before revealing just how ignorant you are.
The download is 2.24MB. Agreed, still a bit large, but not that bad.
Not to mention that it comes bundled with most Adobe downloads, like Acrobat Reader, so it's probably installed on hundreds of users' systems without their knowing.
As for it being the only viewer, there's also Batik. Oh, and have you heard of Mozilla? You know, the browser that AOL is going to be using?
Scalable Vector Graphics is a great open-standard, W3C Recommended technologies that can look just as nice as Flash. And the editing environment? Any text editor. There are also a couple of projects out there for making freeware GUI SVG editors (I'm making a Web-based one in SVG/JavaScript, myself), to make the process easier.
One advantage to SVG is that you can separate out the content from the presentation using CSS and XSL. If you needed to translate your presentation into Spanish, say, you could simply change the source text (in XML), and the animations, fonts, etc. would stay the same. Since text in SVG keeps its textual meaning, and isn't converted into a meaningless vector image, the text is also searchable and can be copied and pasted.
While this may be outside the scope of your project, you can also translate to SVG from MathML (I'm working on a project doing that right now, to make math tutorials), or represent ChemML graphically (see the SVG demos at Adobe ( http://www.adobe.com/svg/demos/main.html ).
There's a great SVG-Wiki/FAQ at http://www.protocol7.com/svg-wiki/ .
> I grew up [...] knowing, not just imagining or believing, but knowing that modern man is soon to become obsolete.
That seems like an odd comment when praising Vinge's idea of the Singularity. By definition, the Singularity is the point past which all predictions and speculations fail, due to an epistemological--and possibly metaphysical--shift.
I think that "believing" is a better word. "Just knowing" smacks of superstition.
But your point about what the concept says about today is well taken. We do seem to live in a better/faster/cheaper world, even when talking about people. Personally, I'd love to be able to upgrade my software.
The Collected Stories of Vernor Vinge
on
True Names
·
· Score: 3, Informative
For fans of Vernor Vinge (as I am), you can pick up his new anthology, The Collected Stories of Vernor Vinge, reviewed here and here. Amazon has both of these books for sale (though at a spurious "special low price").
"True Names" is one of two of his stories not included in the collection, sadly. I don't know what the other one is.
There is a new SourceForge project called SVgUI. The intent is to make a windowing system--Web and possibly desktop-based--using Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). There are no released files yet, but several promising examples of GUI elements have been posted on the SVG-Developers list.
Sorta off-topic, I know, but you might be interested in working with a community from the ground up.
Just to be picayune, you're misusing the term "to beg the question." Begging the question is implicitly assuming as one of your axioms the thing you are claiming to prove. It's better (and more descriptively) known as "circular reasoning."
What you mean to say is "invites the question" or "raises the point."
Speaking of having one's head in the sand, you might consider that the terrorist attacks, if indeed from the Middle East, are directly related to the policies of the USA in that region (for good or ill). And our influence there is, in turn, directly related to our dependance on the natural resources --in the form of oil-- found there.
I can think of little more relevant to our search for a resolution to violence than for us to find a renewable and inexpensive source of energy. After all, ultimately, these issues result not from religion or ideology, but struggles over resources.
Lanier was born in 1960. Inventing a data glove in 1971 when he was eleven, only shortly after the first mouse was built, would have been impressive indeed.;)
On the other hand (sorry), you're right to point out his idea. Though his working prototype for the Data Glove (the first of its kind) worked sorta like GPS, with various transceivers placed around the room (IIRC), he knew that it would ultimately have to use accelerometers, and provide haptic feedback for best use. It's just that the proper MEMS wouldn't be around for a couple of decades.
I've been playing with SVG for a few months now, and I've been having a lot of fun with it. Some friends and I are using it as our format for an online comic (not yet ready for public consumption). The file sizes are much smaller than with raster-based image files, the images are larger, the resolution is beautiful, and there's more interactivity. I suppose the same could be said of Flash, but I've never used it. I'm also creating some templates for text bubbles, frames, etc., to help other get off the ground with their own comics.
Another cool feature of SVG is the searchable (and copy/pastable) text (with embeddable fonts!), which I plan to make use of for a site search engine.
I'm also trying to convince my company to use SVG to generate charts for our website (and maybe even our PC app); I've made a simple chart generator, and the results are gorgeous (much better than with the buggy, overpriced charting package we currently use). I think I'm starting to wear them down...;-). Since it's all XML, the same data can be displayed in a variety of different chart styles, rendered client side (or, if absolutely neccessary, rendered server-side and converted to raster), using chart templates sent down with the data. The pages are super-quick, and the hits on our servers would be knocked way low, since the same data would be manipulated client-side. With Adobe's aggressive distribution of their viewer plug-in (sadly, not yet onto *nix system--kick up a stink!), I'm confident that SVG will be a major contender.
I'm currently working on a small map of my home town, with details filled in as you zoom down. Searchable street and business names, all that jazz. Pretty cool.
Slashdot Mirror
This is a perfect use for SVG graphics. For any (non-photographic) images or logos, use an SVG graphic, and scale it according to the fonts size needed.
By embedding the font you need in the SVG graphic itself, you are not limited to the fonts on the user's system, either.
First off, let me say that I have toyed around with the Corel SmartGraphics Studio, and I think that it's a very good first pass at simplifying the process of creating SVG for a lot of users. As a big fan of SVG, I appreciate all the effort that Corel has put forth.
That being said, I think that the Open Source community should know that dSVG is only one of three UI-defining proposals that the SVG Working Group is considering for SVG 1.2. One of the other two, currently known as RCC, proposes the ability to create a kind of template with a separation of style and functionality, but defined in the document rather than being built in the plug-in. Ultimately, I think that this is a better way to go, since it is far more adaptable. It uses scripting and an XSLT-like syntax to transform semantic content into graphical elements (like form controls, scrollbars, etc.). The last proposal, Live Templates, seems like a generalized case of RCC, and I suspect they could be married together.
Adobe has released a tech preview of ASV6, the next version of their plugin (Windows only for now). It implements an early version of RCC (as well as some other cool features like text wrapping, audio, video, and external resources), and looks very promising. At SVG-Open, I saw an RCC forms widget toolkit for SVG, which worked well and weighed in at all of 6KB. I also saw ASV6pr working on a Linux box, and with the latest build of Mozilla. It's still buggy, but it's more conformant to the Spec than ever.
May the best spec proposal win!
In other news, the excellent Batik (an OSS SVG toolkit) also released a stable 1.5 last week.
Basically, SVG is getting really exciting.
On a related note, from Joel on Software is The Guerrilla Guide to Interviewing.
Where are you shopping? Do you specifically fly to another country to buy imported CDs from the US? Oh, wait, maybe you mean $20 Canadian...
In the music stores I frequent, CDs are, on the average, around $12-13. (Granted, I usually go to locally-owned shops, rather than chains, both for the low prices and to support the locals.)
That's only around 16-23% savings, and then only if the CD has fewer than 10 tracks. Rather a feeble discount, considering all the hassles involved. And I'll have that CD 10 years from now, having listened to it wherever I want, which is most likely about 5 times how long you'll have your lossy copy.
Unless, of course, I sell it... another thing you can't do.
I'll pass, and keep shopping at CD Alley.
Last week, Corel announced a preview plugin (Windows only, for now), so Adobe isn't the only game in town.
They also have a gallery with some neat SVG samples.
The guy knows enough to use an tag inside his tag, so it works across browsers, but he can't supply some alt-text saying, "You must have the Flash plug-in to view this site; get it here"?
For that matter, there was nothing about this site that called for the use of Flash: no music, no animation or movies, no multimedia of any kind. It could have been done just as easily, and more accessibly (with a smaller download), in HTML+CSS. Flash and SVG are great solutions *when there's a problem* to be solved! Seems like overkill to use them as a default, and not provide a text+image fallback.
Not bad mods, though, especially the Furby face and open CD-ROM. And the commentary was pretty entertaining.
"...is not disseminating..."
I think you mean "...is now disseminating...". Wouldn't be very big news if the industry was failing to conform to a practice that they had never done before... like charging reasonable prices or paying the artist fairly.
In other news, several major book publishers are distributing reviewer copies of their books with the pages glued together. And paying Oprah to rave about it, so there's no fear that it won't do well.
...is (someone from) RedHat, given that both are based in Durham, NC.
Really, though, just a guess. Duke's got a lot of rich alumni, so it could be anybody.
Oh, it showed up on Slashdot back in 2000, as well.
I also have it on my page.
"...sidewalk traffic frequently crawls along because people are simultaneously walking and tapping e-mail into their phone..."
Yeah, that sounds great! They sure are kicking our butts when it comes to mobile phone usage.
If you don't see a lot of people with the plug-in, you probably aren't looking. ;-)
There are an estimated 167 million installations of version 2 of Adobe's viewer (it's bundled with Acrobat Reader 5). Most people just don't realize that they have it. When I show people SVG stuff, they've usually had the viewer installed.
That aside, I agree; Macromedia's move strikes me as lip-service. But it'd be nice to see more competition in that space, if it comes off.
...such as, the plug-in by Adobe, and the server-side Batik tools by Apache, as well as a few for handhelds. So I guess that Flash is not the be-all and end-all. Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude.
Incidentally, a talented Flash coder recently even used the Flash plug-in to render a portion of parsed SVG; however, since SVG has many features Flash lacks (such as filters and true text support), a full implementation is beyond the current Flash player (see links to the examples and an analysis here).
Yup. Doesn't get much more open than ASCII.
How long has Flash been around? Like 6 years? And how many authoring tools are there? Something like 3? How many viewers? Uh... one, right?
By contrast, SVG has been a W3C recommendation for all of 8 months, and I know of at least 4 aurhoring tools (not to mention the one I'm making right now, or numerous text editors) and 2 major viewers (along with a host of upcoming handheld viewers). Looks like open standards promote competition and innovation... who would have thought!?
Not to knock Flash... it has its uses. But before you commit to a technology on which to build a serious data-driven website with interactive graphics, do yourself a favor and check out SVG. The SVG-Wiki is a good place to start.
Can you supply any documentation for that, or are you --as it seems-- simply trolling? SVG is a W3C Recommendation, as of September 2001. Nuff said?
If you actually have a link, I'd be very interested in reading it. As it stands, I believe that SVG, like other W3C Recommendations (there are no W3C "Standards"), does NOT have any patent roadblocks. A Good Thing, indeed.
Uh... maybe you'd better check your facts before revealing just how ignorant you are.
The download is 2.24MB. Agreed, still a bit large, but not that bad.
Not to mention that it comes bundled with most Adobe downloads, like Acrobat Reader, so it's probably installed on hundreds of users' systems without their knowing.
As for it being the only viewer, there's also Batik. Oh, and have you heard of Mozilla? You know, the browser that AOL is going to be using?
Due to public outcry, the W3C abandoned its RAND policies; you can read about it here. AFAIK, this applies to SVG as well.
So, no.
Scalable Vector Graphics is a great open-standard, W3C Recommended technologies that can look just as nice as Flash. And the editing environment? Any text editor. There are also a couple of projects out there for making freeware GUI SVG editors (I'm making a Web-based one in SVG/JavaScript, myself), to make the process easier.
One advantage to SVG is that you can separate out the content from the presentation using CSS and XSL. If you needed to translate your presentation into Spanish, say, you could simply change the source text (in XML), and the animations, fonts, etc. would stay the same. Since text in SVG keeps its textual meaning, and isn't converted into a meaningless vector image, the text is also searchable and can be copied and pasted.
While this may be outside the scope of your project, you can also translate to SVG
from MathML (I'm working on a project doing that right now, to make math tutorials), or represent ChemML graphically (see the SVG demos at Adobe ( http://www.adobe.com/svg/demos/main.html ).
There's a great SVG-Wiki/FAQ at http://www.protocol7.com/svg-wiki/ .
Let's hope Serial ATA takes off. It was just relesed in November of 2001.
> I grew up [...] knowing, not just imagining or believing, but knowing that modern man is soon to become obsolete.
That seems like an odd comment when praising Vinge's idea of the Singularity. By definition, the Singularity is the point past which all predictions and speculations fail, due to an epistemological--and possibly metaphysical--shift. I think that "believing" is a better word. "Just knowing" smacks of superstition.
But your point about what the concept says about today is well taken. We do seem to live in a better/faster/cheaper world, even when talking about people. Personally, I'd love to be able to upgrade my software.
For fans of Vernor Vinge (as I am), you can pick up his new anthology, The Collected Stories of Vernor Vinge, reviewed here and here. Amazon has both of these books for sale (though at a spurious "special low price").
"True Names" is one of two of his stories not included in the collection, sadly. I don't know what the other one is.
There is a new SourceForge project called SVgUI. The intent is to make a windowing system--Web and possibly desktop-based--using Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). There are no released files yet, but several promising examples of GUI elements have been posted on the SVG-Developers list.
Sorta off-topic, I know, but you might be interested in working with a community from the ground up.
Just to be picayune, you're misusing the term "to beg the question." Begging the question is implicitly assuming as one of your axioms the thing you are claiming to prove. It's better (and more descriptively) known as "circular reasoning."
What you mean to say is "invites the question" or "raises the point."
My work here is done.
Speaking of having one's head in the sand, you might consider that the terrorist attacks, if indeed from the Middle East, are directly related to the policies of the USA in that region (for good or ill). And our influence there is, in turn, directly related to our dependance on the natural resources --in the form of oil-- found there.
I can think of little more relevant to our search for a resolution to violence than for us to find a renewable and inexpensive source of energy. After all, ultimately, these issues result not from religion or ideology, but struggles over resources.
Lanier was born in 1960. Inventing a data glove in 1971 when he was eleven, only shortly after the first mouse was built, would have been impressive indeed. ;)
On the other hand (sorry), you're right to point out his idea. Though his working prototype for the Data Glove (the first of its kind) worked sorta like GPS, with various transceivers placed around the room (IIRC), he knew that it would ultimately have to use accelerometers, and provide haptic feedback for best use. It's just that the proper MEMS wouldn't be around for a couple of decades.
Here's an interview with him about it.
I've been playing with SVG for a few months now, and I've been having a lot of fun with it. Some friends and I are using it as our format for an online comic (not yet ready for public consumption). The file sizes are much smaller than with raster-based image files, the images are larger, the resolution is beautiful, and there's more interactivity. I suppose the same could be said of Flash, but I've never used it. I'm also creating some templates for text bubbles, frames, etc., to help other get off the ground with their own comics. Another cool feature of SVG is the searchable (and copy/pastable) text (with embeddable fonts!), which I plan to make use of for a site search engine.
;-). Since it's all XML, the same data can be displayed in a variety of different chart styles, rendered client side (or, if absolutely neccessary, rendered server-side and converted to raster), using chart templates sent down with the data. The pages are super-quick, and the hits on our servers would be knocked way low, since the same data would be manipulated client-side. With Adobe's aggressive distribution of their viewer plug-in (sadly, not yet onto *nix system--kick up a stink!), I'm confident that SVG will be a major contender.
I'm also trying to convince my company to use SVG to generate charts for our website (and maybe even our PC app); I've made a simple chart generator, and the results are gorgeous (much better than with the buggy, overpriced charting package we currently use). I think I'm starting to wear them down...
I'm currently working on a small map of my home town, with details filled in as you zoom down. Searchable street and business names, all that jazz. Pretty cool.